>> who would want him dead? or who wouldn't? a string of angry investors, even whispers about the mob. >> everybody went, oh, this is mob connected. >> so why would police focus on her, a beautiful socialite, ex-wife number two? >> it was very intoxicating. >> i think she was cold and calculating. >> maybe her former husband was worth more dead than alive. >> it's easy to blame the rich, beautiful woman. the person everyone loves to hate. but she is completely innocent. >> or maybe it was someone else entirely. >> he is obsessed with gary triano, obsessed with him. >> it's a case we investigated for more than five years. now a stunning new in. >> we are going back up under a rollercoaster. rollercoaster. spend a little time in tucson arizona and here, in the shadows of the majestic saguaros you will find a thriving metropolis of 1 million people, with a surprising small town feel. it's the kind of place where everyone seems to know everyone. and if you ask anyone from tucson where they were on november 1st, 1996, they will tell you it was the day of a murder. so dramatic, so horrific they will never forget it. >> it was the story that everyone talked about. >> the explosive and of a man who had been larger than life. >> gary had a presence, he had charisma. and the beginning of a mystery that would span nearly two decades. >> never, ever felt that it wouldn't be so. i tucson native, gary triano was a successful real estate developer and entrepreneur and he was known around tucson for his big spending ways. he chauffeured limousine,'s and for rubbing elbows with folks like donald trump. like the song made famous by sinatra, the forceful and determine gary liked doing things his way. >> he was very, very brilliant. >> reporter: gary's niece, melissa triano. >> he had this personality that was charismatic. people were drawn to him. >> reporter: melissa says her uncle made her see the value in herself. >> my father moved away when i was 17. i was sort of a lost child, if you will. and my uncle kind of helped me realize a lot of my scales. and taught me a lot about the real estate industry. >> it was kind of a father figure? >> sort of, yes. >> and gary was a loving father to five children. four of them from his first two marriages. and a daughter with a woman he dated named robin gardner. >> he was full of life, gary weighs more full of life than anybody i have ever known. when i met gary he was 21 years older than i. and we would go dancing. we would go to the movies. he was carrying. and fun. >> and charming? >> extremely charming. >> robin moved to tucson in her twenties, from a small town in the appalachian mountains. gary, she says, opened her eyes to a new way of life. >> i had never eaten at a five star restaurant. i had never drank fine wine. i had never been on a private jet. >> and, robin says, gary was generous with the money he made. >> gary was a big giver, a big giver. i remember we were at a restaurant, and there was a waitress that really seemed like she was struggling. he did an origami flower out of a 100 dollar bill and gave it to her. he did that, not to showboat, he did it to be nice. he did it to be kind. >> and then came the day that changed everything. a nightmare come to life. it was late afternoon, november 1st, 1996. gary had just played a round of golf, at the top tier tucson country club called la paloma. he climbed into the lincoln town car he borrowed from a friend. and was then instantly killed. killed by a bomb that literally blew him to pieces, right they are in the parking lot. gary was just a few days shy of his 53rd birthday. some of his friends were already at his home, preparing for a surprise party. >> my cousin heather kept paging me, over and over again, 9-1-1, 9-1-1. and i thought it was because i was running late. and she was trying to figure out where i was. >> melissa called her and mary, gary's first wife. >> my aunt mary answered the phone and told me that they believe that my uncle had been killed. and that they knew this because they were watching it on television. and that was his car. and i thought she was kidding. i completely -- i got angry and said, what do you talking about? this is not funny. >> she said, no, it's not a joke. >> reporter: she knew that he planned to meet up with some friends after the golf game. he talked with the bartender. there >> is michael there? please tell me he's. there and he said missy, i'm sorry, what i'm so sorry. >> that's a hell of a way to find out. >> yes, they found out by seeing it on the news. >> it was a very powerful bomb, a powerful explosion. >> melissa raced down sunrise drive to the scene. >> i got out of the car and i started running towards my uncles car. and detective james gamber came running up and grabbed me. and stopped me from getting closer. what >> reporter: detective james gamber was one of the first at the scene. it was his second homicide case ever. >> i was doing dishes after dinner and i got a call that there had been a car bomb that la paloma, you need to go up there. >> what he saw may have rattled a far more seasoned detective. >> the roof had been peeled off the car, laying behind the car, and the windshield was gone. we found that the next day in the swimming pool of the country club. >> how far away? >> i would estimate 70 feet away, and had to go over some trees 20 vitol. >> i'm guessing that it was pretty clear that this was not an accident. this was not something wrong with the car. >> correct. >> he was dead, what, instantly? >> yes. with >> the goal watch around gary triano's frozen time at five away pm. his family and friends didn't know what to think. who could have done this? and why? coming up, the person who set off the bomb was watching gary triano get have's car? >> they're watching and saying, he's on to. it >> and the motive? what might that be? >> follow the money, follow the money, you look at who benefited from the death. >> when dateline continues. teline continues growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. gary triano the businessman, the father, the philanthropist. none of it made sense. he had just played a round of golf and then the women who loved living large died a spectacular death. >> i was just so in shock, like the rest of my family. that this could happen at all. >> you don't want to believe it. and you don't want to accept it. no one that i know was killed with a bomb. it was like something on television. >> it was a crime scene no one will soon forget. >> i just thought, oh my goodness. i can't believe this is happening in tucson, arizona. >> reporter: lupita murillo has covered the case for one decades. well she -- >> people kill each other for all kinds of things. >> exactly, but a car explosion at a posh resort. obviously, someone wanted to make a statement. >> so this is a powerful bomb? >> yes. >> pima county sheriff's detective detective james gamber and a alphabet soup of investigative agencies, including the fbi and atf started looking closely at the homemade bomb that had found its way to gary triano's passenger seat. >> we were able to determine that the vice was a 17 inch piece of pipe, about an inch and a half in diameter. >> reporter: the pipe was filled with explosive powder and it detonated by remote control. >> using something that is normally used to control boats, planes? >> correct. >> handheld planes? >> yes. >> reporter: investigators determined that whoever operated the remote control which probably they are in the parking lot. so the person who set off the bomb was watching gary triano get in his car? >> yes, we had every reason to believe, from the injury patterns, that he was picking up the bag the device was in when detonated. that would make me believe that someone is watching, and that he is on to it. and we have to detonate it now, before he realizes and has a chance to escape. >> reporter: clearly, the killer had to know something about triano's routine. but detective james gamber soon discovered that a lot of people did. >> he had virtually no sense of personal security. he never locked his car, wouldn't lock's house. so someone with intel or information on gary's lifestyle could easily have set him up. and it appeared someone had checked on gary's whereabouts that day. >> what was interesting is that the day of the murder, someone called and asked if he was playing golf? >> man or woman? >> never identified, man. >> it made an impact on cambers boss. then sheriff clarence dubnick. >> i've never seen an assassination of this kind. if in fact it was a hit, it probably was a professional hits. >> reporter: could the sheriff be right? if so, who hired a hitman? who wanted triano dead? >> he was very flamboyant, outgoing, engaging. he ran in real big circles, running around with donald trump, people like that. >> and he was throwing money around? >> yes. >> and so when a flamboyant guy dies in a flamboyant way -- >> yeah. >> people start thinking? >> you tie him with big money, flamboyant lifestyle, casinos, then killed in a car bombing? everyone makes this automatic assumption that that has to be some mob related hit. >> reporter: and as investigators look more closely into garry's finances, they saw only red ink. by the late eighties, the tucson real estate market has crashed and gary's bottom line took hit after hit. investors learned that in 1994, saddled with debts he couldn't pay, gary triano had filed for bankruptcy. he had rolled the dice and lost. he old money to casinos and banks and the irs. and just a day before the bombing, a friend said that an extremely anxious gary had come to him, desperate for a 50,000 dollar loan. >> he was tapped out. >> when he died i understand that he had holes on the bottom of his souls in his shoes. >> any indication that any of the people to whom he old money, and they were a lot, were angry enough to kill him? >> no. there were people that openly said, he cost me money, he owed me money. but was it enough for me to kill him? no. >> reporter: not so fast, detective james gamber didn't know it at the time but fbi agents following the same trail had heard the name neil mcneice. the bureau received a tip that neil mcneice had experience with high explosives and that he had access to them. and that he had a foul temper. and that he had a lot of money. but that was not the end of it. the bureau was also told that neil mcneice carried a profound hatred of gary triano. detective james gamber supervisor back then was keith st. john. >> and you had his name from two different sources. one of which was the fbi? >> yes. >> and you never talk to him? >> no. >> it would be years before investigators realize how significant an omission that was. but there is no disputing that the neil mcneice tip was never followed up. and so investigators changed focus. and looked away from gary triano's business relationships. >> you do two things. let's follow the evidence. and you say follow the money. always follow the money in a homicide. and then you look at who benefited from the death. >> reporter: investigators were now examining gary triano's closest personal ties. was there someone closer to home? to whom gary may have been worth more dead than alive? >> i remember asking him, why would anyone want to follow you? and he said because of a life insurance policy. >> reporter: coming up, the women in gary triano's, what an ex wives club. and an angry former girlfriend. >> they were not happy, between she and gary triano. >> i think the current husband put it best. when robin is mad, you will know it. it's going to be a street fight. when dateline continues. e continues. 100% stain removal, 24 hour stain resistance to lock in your whitest smile. crest. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. 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(announcer) you can quit. call 1-800-quit-now for help getting free medication. - oh, sister of mine. - mmm... - i got you this. - the new iphone 13 pro? - it's on verizon 5g - i can't believe you got me this! - yes, verizon is giving one to everyone when they trade in their old or damaged phone. - oh! so like every sister can get this? - yeah. - every aluminum siding installer? - why not? - every doula? - they would have to! every customer, new and old, can get iphone 13 pro on us. because everyone deserves better. - everyone! - horse trainers! - manicurists! - you get the new iphone! - we're alone. - i know. - what're we doing? - i don't know. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ tucson real estate developer gary triano's gruesome death by car bomb had a lot of people wondering guess who is enemies were. investigators had been looking at gary's business dealings. but started hitting one dead and after another. so they began scouring his personal life. gary head lived large. and it turned out he loved that way of life. and he was no angel. by the time of his death, gary's name was already attached to two divorces and a trail of broken hearts. he had left his first wife, mary, after two children and more than 20 years of marriage, to web a younger woman, pam phillips. gary had two more children with her. after that marriage ended, gary dated robin gardner for two years. and that union produced a daughter, elliott. but gary and robin never married. after an angry break up while robin we still married. 9-1-1 was even called after his death to report that robin showed uninvited to his home and threw a vase at him. robin told investigators she through the base at the ground after gary pushed her. and so investigators came knocking on robins door. >> they were pretty unhappy at the break up between she and gary triano. >> we looked into robin and i think her current husband put it best. when robin is mad, you will know it, and whatever will happen will happen right now. so basically it's going to be a street fight. >> and you are convinced that while she was angry at gary triano, she wanted him alive. >> yes. i don't think she would have done that to their child. >> reporter: so investigators looked away from robin. and moved on to some of the other women and gary's life. he had maintained a good relationship with his first wife, mary, after the divorce. and investigators eliminated her. that left his second ex-wife, pam phillips. like gary, pam phillips had been married once before. the stunning blond had a business degree from the university of our sona. and was one of the women to find success working in commercial real estate in tucson in the late eighties. pam and gary seemed off to a good start in 1986. with an expensive black tie wedding on a yacht we on the coast of san diego. >> i knew gary was mad about, her positively in love with her. >> the wedding photographer, gary's friend, david bean. >> they look like they loved and cared about each other. >> but reporter lupita murillo says, behind gary's back, tucson was whispering. >> what did you hear? >> that she was a gold digger. that she married gary for his money. and that she broke up his marriage. >> reporter: it's common for people on the outside to talk about the new wife that way. remember, gary had left his first wife or pam. that alone spark some anger in the triano family. brian and heather are gary's kids from his first marriage. initially they were less than thrilled about their father remarrying. >> she was a step mom. let's be honest. we were teenagers. >> not happy about your parents getting divorced. >> but it was hard to deny that the marriage was working. >> we saw them together, they were happy. they seemed happy. >> they would sing love songs. we >> reporter: gary and pam had some very good years, says his niece melissa. >> they were running around with marla maples, donald trump, friends with lee majors. and just taking really extravagant trips. >> money flowing like water? >> yeah. >> gary helped pam launch an astrology website, starbabies.com. the site was designed to give parents an astrological reading about their children. it was a business pan started after her children, trevor, and lewis were born. >> what do you say, try of? >> reporter: heather and brian say those new babies brought them closer to their new stepmother. >> we grew to like her and love her as a step mom. and as mother of our brother and sister. >> she was great, very sweet. and i think also being a girl, she helped me fix my hair or get some clothes. or new purposes, shoes. early stuff. >> reporter: but by the early nineties gary's fortunes had faded and his marriage to pam as well. they were done after seven years. >> he said once, you know, i can understand, i just don't have the money that she was used to as having. >> reporter: pam moved to aspen after the divorce. and then once happy couple started fighting over just about everything. >> there was an ongoing legal battle over child support. she wanted it increased, she wanted it -- and use the bankruptcy to shield himself from having to pay increase child support. >> reporter: which, to some, was ironic. >> i was basically mr. mom. >> pam's former nanny, kevin mcdonald. >> i was taking care of trevor and lewis for seven days a week. day and night. >> reporter: according to him, pam was too busy shopping to take care of her kids. shopping, that is, for a new husband. >> she wasn't apologetic about it. all of her expensive -- she was getting worried. and said kevin, i'm down to my last $60,000. what should i do, she said. >> i said, get the job. >> but she was focused on finding a man with a job, a good one. >> she wanted to find a husband that was worth at least $20 million. that's what she told me. worth $20 million. >> so the pan that married gary triano for his money hadn't changed. except zip codes. >> yes. zip code and whether. >> reporter: but while pam was looking for the right deal in aspen, back in tucson, gary triano was feeling uneasy. >> gary said, i think we are being followed. i just thought, you are starting to scare me, dude. [laughs] >> reporter: taylor show bergh, his girlfriend at the time, was gary was convinced that someone was following him. i remember asking him, why would anyone want to follow you? >> and he said, because of a life insurance policy. >> reporter: turns out gary was insured for $2 million. his children, trevor and lowest for the beneficiaries. until they turned 18, though, the money was controlled by their mother, pam. >> they had gone through a nasty divorce? >> yes. child custody and visitation battles. >> so it would be natural that you would be looking at her. >> yes. >> reporter: but detective james gamber's investigation showed that pam was in aspen, not tucson, on the day of the murder. and pam the socialite certainly seemed more bombshell then bomb maker. and so pam phillips is probably not someone you thought was thinking around building a pipe bomb? >> no. >> reporter: detective james gamber and his team seemed to be had another dead end, until an alert detective 800 miles away caught a news report about the bombing. and some bells went off. coming up -- >> they found a note in the car, buy toothpaste, and down a little further was off shotgun. >> reporter: what could that have to do with the murder of gary triano? when "dateline" continues. line" continues. growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. >> reporter: aspen colorado. a year-round playground for the rich and famous. sometimes for the people who pray on them. that's the kind of case that then as been police detective jim crowley called back in 1996. to local businesses said they had been defrauded by a man named ron young. >> but the scam was is that he would become a business manager, help you grow the company, and he did that part of it. but at some point he would have all your credit information so we would apply for credit cards and your name. at himself as a sign or. uses credit cards to pay bills. >> as far as you can tell, he stole how much money? >> probably between 80 and $120,000. >> but before crowley could get an arrest warrant, ron young disappeared. >> he skipped town? >> yes. >> young fled in a rented mini van that later turned up in southern california. young himself was nowhere to be found. but what was found in the mini van was very curious. >> i note in the car that was kind of like a laundry list. buy toothpaste, down the list further was sawed off shotgun. >> reporter: ron young was not known as a violent criminal. but when police found a shotgun and a taser in the van, it may detective crowley that a man wanted for white collar crimes may possibly more be more dangerous than he thought. in ron young's mini van, investigators found something else peculiar. paperwork related to the divorce of pamela phillips and gary triano >> at the time the name gary triano meant what do you? >> nothing. >> but pam phillips, that was a name that crowley had heard before. he knew her as another aspen resident who claimed she had been ripped off by ram young. pam said ron had stolen money from her business, starbabies.com. >> did she have a case? >> we don't know because she never came back and refused to answer my calls after. >> so she originally came to you and made it complaints -- >> backed off, yes. >> i never told you? i >> know. >> reporter: their former nanny remembers that ron and pam seem close. pam would come over at least two or three times a week. and some nights, pam would cook for him, have romantic dinners with candlelight. and music. >> reporter: although, kevin says, ron didn't seem to be pam's type. >> he did not have any money. he was not a socialite. and that's why she generally went for. >> reporter: so what exactly was pans relationship with ron young? and why wouldn't pam cooperate with police? did you want to protect ron? or was she afraid of him? crowley didn't know what to make of it all. and then, about a month after ron young's van was found, the detective happened to read about the car bombing death of gary triano. >> i was aware that what he was gary's ex-husband. -- so that's what prompted me to call into tucson. >> reporter: >> reporter: well detective james gamber and keith st. john were there when the call came into the department at tucson. it certainly got investigators attention, especially when they learned more about what was found in that van. there was a map of tucson and handwritten notes with the names and types of cars driven by some of gary triano's business associates, family and friends, including his niece melissa and one time girlfriend taylor. and there was more. >> and then we found a receipt for a hotel here in tucson, we are ron young stayed in the hotel, for 18 days, during the summer of 1996. >> which would be, what, a few months before gary triano was killed? >> yeah. >> and what was interesting about his choice of hotels, it was geographically almost halfway between where gary triano and the la paloma country club. >> where he played golf every? day >> yes. >> and even more suspicious, ron young stayed under a phony name. the name of one of the people he was accused of defrauding in aspen. but that was well before the murder. and there was no evidence that ron young was in tucson when the bomb went off. >> reporter: anything in ron young's record or possession that suggested he either knew how to or was involved in building a remote control bomb? >> no. >> and he's got no history of working with explosives? >> that's correct. >> reporter: still, detective james gamber desperately wanted to talk with ron young. well >> it was an active fugitive case going on, because they had a fraud warrant. but he basically just fell off the face of the earth. >> reporter: who was ron young? and what was his relationship with pam phillips? nine days after the murder of her ex funds beyond, pam phillips agreed to come down to the sheriff's department for an interview. that conversation was recorded. >> i want to ask you about your relationship with ron young. >> yeah. >> reporter: coming up -- >> the word that i was getting was that it was his former wife. and that this was his insurance policy. >> reporter: pam phillips day with detectives. >> she knew he was going to be -- >> reporter: too many reasons to be suspicious? we >> have this life insurance policy. >> gary is the one that took this out and he also insisted that it be in my. name >> reporter: when "dateline" continues. eline" continues they're actually a quality insurance company. that's what i've been telling you. -can we sit with you? -(sips) ahhh. for a great low rate, and nearly 60 years of quality coverage, go with the general. for a great low rate, and nearly 60 years i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger. >> reporter: gary triano's violent death by car bomb headset the tucson rumor mill on overdrive. but according to local nbc reporter lupita murillo, an awful lot of fingers were pointing in the same direction. >> within 24 hours after the dust settled, the word that i was getting was that it was his former wife. and it was because of this insurance policy. >> reporter: pam phillips, gary's ex was someone that investigators wanted to talk with, especially afterward came from aspen that pam had been connected in some way to a fugitive on the run from fraud charges named ron young. nine days after the murder, investigators got their chance. pam phillips voluntarily came in for questioning. >> i didn't give pamela out of what i knew. i let her talk and let her give me what she wanted to give me. >> reporter: detective keith st. john spoke with him three times, twice in person. >> for the record, tell me your full name. >> pamela and phillips. >> he asked him to talk about her relationship with gary, starting with how they met. >> was he already divorced? >> no. he was happily married. >> did she know about those meetings? >> she knew she was going to be scrutinized. i made it clear that we had to deal with the life insurance policy. we have the issue of the life insurance policy. she talked with me about how the payments were being made, when the payments were taken. out she seemed like she was up front. >> gary is the one that took this out, he also insisted it was in my name. >> reporter: they discussed two out there could be angry at gary. >> gary had so many business dealings. and the insight that you can give us on those? >> he had so many enemies, you know? >> four key st. john, nothing stood out about those interviews, until he asked pam about ron young. >> something has come up that i want to ask you about. it is -- is your relationship with ron young. >> i don't really have a relationship with ron young. >> tell me what it is. >> he's a guy from aspen. god, how does his name come up? >> reporter: st. john felt he might have thrown pam off our game. >> we are trying to do our best on this. >> wow, he's a guy from aspen that did some financial stuff for me. >> are you aware of an arrest warrant out for him? >> no. >> and what was the last time you had dealings with him? >> well, it's been a long time. since he was doing work for me. >> reporter: and pam denied ever having a romantic relationship with ron. >> and you are never were boyfriend girlfriend? never had an affair? >> no, no. >> in my opinion, she minimized it. she's saying, he's just the person that did some work for me, i didn't see them a month. >> now the guy was involved? with >> no. >> not a guy who i refused to sign the complaint down with the cops came? >> correct. >> but pans question to the ron young issue, the cops had nothing on her. nothing placing them in tucson on the day of the murder. and nothing connecting either one of them to the bomb that killed gary triano. >> after three interviews, other than this thing with ron young, and we didn't have him to talk to, there wasn't anything that i thought that made her rise to the level of a suspect. >> reporter: and ron young was still somewhere in the wind. >> so safe to say this goes cold? >> yes. >> reporter: in january of 1997, pam phillips received her life insurance payment. $2 million. plus interest. >> did that insurance money give panda lifestyle back? >> for a short while, yes. $2 million does not go far and. aspen >> reporter: pam bought herself a house, 1 million dollar fixer upper. >> and with her exquisite taste, she turned it into a beautiful house. >> reporter: in fact, her deck was featured in the glossy aspen sojourner magazine. she was dabbling in real estate and trying to make starbabies.com a success. to help with the website, she invited gary's daughter, heather triano to come live with her in aspen. >> i was a company, my father persist for her when they were married. this was great, i thought, this was something my father started. i will come and restarted as it wasn't developed. >> reporter: during the time the heather lived with pam, she took care of her younger siblings. but she never had a discussion with pam about gary's unsolved murder. >> we didn't talk about it, really. >> she was basically a member of your family, at least for a while, and clearly felt close to you. and she never once said, here's what i think happened? >> no. >> no, i don't think so. >> reporter: through the years, heather and brian maintain the relationship with him, even as they had families of their own. >> she was at my wedding. >> she was at my wedding and we were friends. >> reporter: but gary's nice melissa couldn't help suspect that pam had something to do with her uncle's murder. >> in my mind, the only person that had anything to gain from him dying ways pam. >> there was really a rift in your family, wasn't there? some who believe that pam could never have done anything like this. and others who suspected. her >> yes. yeah. >> reporter: gary's ex-girlfriend robin move back to virginia in 2000, to raise their daughter elliott. >> he was a great father to all four of his other children. and elliott missed that experience. my daughter was a victim. >> reporter: for nearly a decade, gary triano's friends and family waited and hoped for an answer. as time went by and there weren't any arrests, what do you think? maybe i'm wrong about pam? maybe this will never be solved? >> no. i think part of me thought that in time, it would all be found out and that it just wasn't time yet. >> reporter: detectives waited to. until one day in 2005, when the tip came in from 2000 miles away. coming up -- >> i helped you want something that was, beyond what anybody else in the world would probably do. >> reporter: secret tapes are about to warm up a cold case. >> there's plenty of stuff that i could dig out of the ground, literally. and you are a friday. >> the big thing with catching ron young is he collected all the evidence for us. the tapes for the gold mine. >> reporter: when dateline continues. continues. by hitting eczema where it counts, dupixent helps heal your skin from within, keeping you one step ahead of eczema. and that means long-lasting clearer skin... and fast itch relief for adults. hide my skin? not me. by helping to control eczema with dupixent, you can show more with less eczema. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur including anaphylaxis, which is severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, or a parasitic infection. if you take asthma medicines don't change or stop them without talking to your doctor. when you help heal your skin from within, you can change how your skin looks and feels. and that's the kind of change you notice. talk to your eczema specialist about dupixent, a breakthrough eczema treatment. we gave new zzzquil pure zzzs tal restorative herbal sleepst about dupixent, to people who were tired of being tired. i've never slept like this before. i've never woken up like this before. crafted with clinically studied plant-based ingredients that work naturally with your body. for restorative sleep like never before. 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[ soft music playing ] what are you all doing in my daydream? it's better than that presentation. a lot better. you know, whether it's a fraction or a decimal, it's still fun, you know? growing up in a little red house, you know, whether it's a fraction on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. >> reporter: nine years had passed since gary triano was killed by a car bomb. police had investigated his business partners and then his ex-wife pam. and they had come up empty. they had deep suspicions about ron young, an accused con man with a murky connection to pam. but investigators couldn't even find him. it looked as if the case may stay cold forever. and then, in 2005 -- with the tv show america's most wanted feature the triano case and focused on the fugitive ron young. and that works? >> it took about 19 hours. >> reporter: after nine years on the lamb, ron young was fingered in florida by a most unlikely tipster. >> his chiropractor called america's most wanted andy broward county team went out and pick them up. he had a scheduled appointments so they waited for him to show up at his chiropractors office. >> betrayed by a bad back, ron young is now in the hands of authorities. america's most wanted was there when ron was arrested on the old fraud charges and illegal possession of a handgun. and atf officer sat down with him for an interview. >> did you have anything to do with the bombing? >> no. i had no reason to blow up anybody or kill anybody. >> the big advantage to catching ron young wasn't what he said in that interview, was it? >> no. the big advantage to catching ron young is, he collected all our evidence for. us >> reporter: inside wrong young's apartment in storage locker, investigators found a computer with emails, fedex receipts from spin and a stash of audiotaped that young had apparently recorded in secrets in the years following the murder. conversations with none other than pam phillips. >> the computer and the tapes turned out to be the gold mine. >> reporter: investigators began to play tape after tape. looking for anything that would shed light on the investigation. and on those tapes, they heard ron young threatening pam. >> there's just plenty of stuff that i could literally dig out of the ground. and your afraid doc. >> reporter: hence mysterious conversations about banks in money. >> i can't deal with this. i can't. i'd rather die. >> then what? >> then sit here and deal with like, well, going to the bank which is totally illegal. every single week. i am not going to do it. >> what do you mean it's illegal? >> i am giving money to somebody, and not spending it. and not declaring it. and you are getting money. are you declaring it? >> listen, you are completely confused on that. >> reporter: and talk of some kind of pre-existing deal between the two of them. >> i am not going to keep sending you more and more and more money unless i know that you can honor our agreement. >> reporter: it all started to add up, especially when we looked on ron's computer and found a detailed schedule of payments from pam. payments that were made carefully and surreptitiously using a cryptic code that the two had devised. >> i'm really happy that you are 1.6 six was tax very. >> he talked about you've got your 1.6 i got my four, which adds up to 2 million, adds up to the insurance payment. >> there is nothing on those tapes which says, ron young says, you hired me for this money to bomb your husband's car. >> it's not directly. but when you piece the conversations together, that is said. >> i helped you want something that was beyond what anybody else in the world would do. >> reporter: perhaps the most damning piece of evidence? >> would you sit in a women's prison for murdering? would you sit in a women's prisons for murder? >> i'm going to hang up. >> as far as i know, the only murder in pam phillips life was the murder of gary triano. what >> reporter: coming up, a brand-new mystery. where was pam phillips? >> pam's disappeared. she could be anywhere in the world. but ask me to pull a rabbit out of my hat, i don't think i have any more. rabbits >> -- >> yes. >> when dateline continues. teline continues with freshness and softness you never forget. feel the difference with downy. (geri) i have copd. because i smoked. so i have to pace myself. my tip is, if you're having people over for thanksgiving, start cooking in october. (announcer) you can quit. call 1-800-quit now for help getting free medication. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. our friends sold their policy to help pay for their medical bills and that got me thinking. maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. i'm skeptical, so i did some research and called coventry direct. they explained life insurance is a valuable asset that can be sold. we learned that we can sell all of our policy or keep part of it with no future payments, who knew? we sold our policy. now we can relax and enjoy our retirement as we had planned. if you have one hundred thousand dollars or more of life insurance you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit conventrydirect.com to find out if you policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. ♪ when you have nausea, ♪ ♪ heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach... ♪ ♪ diarrheaaaa. ♪ pepto bismol coats your stomach with fast and soothing relief. and try new drug free pepto herbal blends. made from 100% natural ginger and peppermint. police discovered a large number of financial files and secret recordings in ron young's apartment. which detective james gamber believed outlined the details of a murder for hire plot to kill gary triano. >> when you listen to the tapes and you look at the documents you found in ron young's position, what did that spell out? >> he was entitled to $400,000 of the $2 million life insurance policy, and he was using pam as his bank. he was earning 4% interest on his $400,000. >> why would somebody who had committed a murder, a murder for hire, keep detailed records that would essentially prove their own involvement and that of the person that hired them? >> i think for two reasons. one, if your ego is that big, that you think you're not going to get caught, you're too smart to get caught, and, two, you're saving it as evidence or as a threat, something to hold over your co-conspirator's head. >> in case she stops paying? >> yes. >> ron young was sentenced to ten months in prison on gun possession charges. the fraud charges were dismissed. detective still didn't have enough to charge young with gary's murder, but they did have enough to turn up the heat on pam. >> we went up to aspen and filed for a search warrant and ultimately searched pam's house. >> but in pam's home, they didn't find anything related to ron young or to the bomb. >> absolutely nothing related to the murder. >> so once again, despite their suspicions, they couldn't charge pam philips with any crime. for gary tretriano's children, heather and brian, it was impossible to believe their former stepmother could have anything to do with their father's murder. >> i was her friend. i was her friend. i live with her. so, no, i didn't think she was a suspect at all. >> then think read the affidavit detailing the conversations between pam philips and ron young. >> would you sit in a women's prison for murdering -- would you sit in a women's prison for murder? >> it's at that point that we realized something was wrong, that the whole thing wasn't right. >> what was it like for you to read, this woman who had been your stepmother and then a friend, looking at your father's murder? >> i wanted to throw up. >> in november of 2007, 11 years after the murder, heather and brian, along with gary's youngest daughter, filed a wrongful death civil lawsuit against pam phillips and ron young. robyn gardner, elliot's mom. >> the point of that wrongful death lawsuit was not to recover money from pam. the idea was to serve some subpoenas and maybe get the investigation going. >> it had come to a slow halt. it just seemed as if it was cold as cold could be. so the children got together, and as you said, not for revenue, but to simply get the ball rolling. >> despite all the evidence investigators had uncovered in ron young's possession, prosecutors in tucson still didn't feel there was enough to charge either ron young or pam phillips with murder. >> why do you think prosecutors didn't want to bring a case? >> i don't know if there was an official reason or if it was a reluctance on just the sheer size of the case, how big this case was, would it be a career ender case? so no one ever gave me a solid answer. >> frustrating. >> little bit, yes. >> but the civil suit changed things. prosecutors decided it was time to move. you think that wrongful death suits are what guilted prosecutors into going forward? >> or it showed them how valid the case was. >> nearly a year after the civil suit was filed, in october 2008, ron young was out of prison after serving ten months on the gun possession charges, was re-arrested in california. this time, for the murder of gary triano. young was flown back to tucson. lupita maria is one of those people who like to greet visitors at the airport. >> how does it feel to be back, sir? >> well, not so good. >> did you kill gary triano, sir? did you place that bomb? >> no, of course not. >> where was pam phillips? is she your accomplice? >> where was pam philips? turns out, she may have outsmarted everyone by leafing the united states just a month before authorities filed arrest warrants for her and ron. >> she took what we believe was an innocent trip to switzerland to visit her daughter. >> and she just decided i'm not coming back? >> i think when the news broke, she made a conscious decision it would be best for her to stay in europe. >> but if you think she was living rough as a fugitive, think again. our cameras caught it first hand, when "dateline" tracked her down in february 2009. we found her living in the beautiful lakeside town of lugano, switzerland. it's switzerland's version of monte carlo. pam and gary's daughter lois, just a little girl when gary died, was now a college student there. we discovered pam living in a $5,000 a month apartment. and she'd made a new friend. a well heeled widower with whom she'd often dine overlooking the lake at this five-star hotel. maybe it's proof that if you do enough shopping, sometimes you find exactly what you're looking for. >> just basically living a very affluent lifestyle. she didn't need to work apparently. >> back in pam phillips' former country of residence in november 2009, three of gary triano's children won their wrongful death lawsuit against pam. a judge ordered her to pay them $10 million. but gary's family and friends wondered, would they ever see pam return to the united states to face charges? because by then, detective gamber had learned pam was no longer in switzerland. >> it's like i told heather, i said pam's disappeared. we don't know where she is. she could be anywhere in the world. the sheriff told me to find her. so they're asking me to pull a rabbit out of my hat, i don't think i have any more rabbits. >> you were feeling defeated? >> yes. >> and what did you think, you'd never see pam phillips again? >> yes. coming up -- >> i think she was cold and calculating. >> so calculating, she could elude the cops. the worldwide hunt for the socialite suspect is on. >> she had thought she had gotten away with this. >> when "date jbline continues. s it's a simple fact: nothing kills more germs on more surfaces than lysol spray. it's a simple fact: it even kills the covid-19 virus. science supports these simple facts. there's only one true lysol. lysol. what it takes to protect. ♪ ♪ fall together with lowe's. to find great values this season. lowe's. home to any budget. home to any possibility. growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. when you really need to sleep you reach for the really good stuff. new zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. it's non habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. new zzzquil ultra. when you really really need to sleep. in tucson, arizona, a warrant was out for the arrest of socialite pam phillips, accused of masterminding the car bombing death of her ex-husband, gary triano. there was only one problem, pam wasn't in arizona or the united states. or switzerland where she had been living. like a femme fatale in an old movie, she had left town without a forwarding address. >> that was one of the frustrations. she was in the european union, where there's basically no borders. it's not like she has to go through immigration and customs. she can move. >> but investigators in europe were cooperating with the u.s. authorities and they started tracking pam's cell phone. >> so even though you didn't know where she was, the authorities that were there were still following the case? >> yes. >> they kept checking records and looking for pam. and in december, 2009, more than a year after she went on the lam, they found her in austria. detective gamber received the news from overseas and realized he wasn't out of rabbits after all. >> a coded message that said she's in custody in vienna, and do you want to extradite her? it was like a one-word response, "yes." >> but pam would spend some time waiting in an austrian jail first while her accused co-conspirator ron young stood trial. in february 2010, prosecutors presented their case against young to a jury. they argued that young planted the bomb that killed gary treeian that, and that pam phillips paid him to do it. >> everything you say, everything you've heard reeks of conspiracy, of two people who are so cold and so greedy, that they believe nothing else matters. >> gary's niece melissa testified and learned for the first time that her name had been on a list found in ron young's abandoned van. >> it was alarming. it was horrifying. the defense argued that pam's payments to ron were just extortion, blackmail, and there was no evidence tying ron young to a bomb or placing him in tucson on the day of the murder. >> you have a laundry list of suspects in this case that make just as much sense as blaming ron young. >> the jury, however, didn't buy it. >> we find the defendant, ronald kelly young, guilty of the -- >> in march of 2010, ron young was found guilty of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. he was sentenced to life in prison. and just two months later, pam phillips was extradited back to the united states. you can guess who was there to welcome her back. >> what do you say to the triano family? who do you say to gary's adult children? what do you say to your own children and whose mother is going to be in jail? >> but lupita's wasn't the only face pam saw at the airport. >> what was that like, to see pam come back to tucson to face trial? >> it's gratifying. she got off the plane about 10:00 at night. she wasn't happy to see me. >> also present, melissa triano. why was it important for you to be there? >> i think because she had thought she had gotten away with this, and i think that we wanted her to see that we knew that she hadn't. >> there she was on full display, the former socialite chauffeured lee know was now a pima county sheriff's car. gary's youngest child elliot was just seven months old when her father was killed. by now, she was beginning to understand more about how her father died and who might have done it and why. >> when you heard that pam was accused of having your father murdered for a $2 million insurance policy, what did you think? >> i don't know what it's like to live the kind of life that she was living. but i know what it's like to grow up without having my dad around, my biological dad. >> arizona versus pamela anne phillips. that's your arraignment. those are the charges. >> pam phillips pleaded not guilty to charges of murder and conspiracy to commit murder. a veteran attorney was assigned to prosecute the case. >> she married gary for his money, we believe. she divorced him for the same reason. he was bankrupt at the time. >> you think she also killed him for his money? >> right. >> the sense one gets of pam from you guys is somebody who is kind of a human calculator. >> calculator is an apt description. i think she was cold and calculating, that she used men for her benefit. and ultimately, she used gary for her benefit. >> but it would take years before prosecutors would actually get to try the case. as it meandered through the legal system, motion after motion. for a time, pam was ruled mentally incompetent to stand trial. she told at least one doctor someone had been watching and listening to her for years, and she believed she had tracking devices placed in her passport and her head. but by late 2012, the judge said she was fit to proceed. >> i think that the police got tunnel vision with regard to this investigation. >> the woman who'd lived the good life now had a court-appointed attorney. her name is alicia ketta. pam phillips has been described as a narcissist, gold digger, and ultimately ruthless, cold-blooded murderer. you're shaking your head. >> no. >> how would you describe her? >> i would describe her as a mother of two, who worked hard who tried to make a life for herself. >> did pam phillips want gary triano dead? >> no, absolutely not. no. he was the father of her children. she wanted him to be involved in the children's lives. >> it's not crazy that police looked at pam. >> absolutely not. >> they had a contentious relationship. she got serious money out of that life insurance settlement. she was associated with a guy who police believe was responsible for planting the bomb. >> there is absolutely no physical evidence linking ronald young to that murder or that bomb. nothing whatsoever. >> and yet, he was convicted. >> exactly. and it's a statement of how powerful an accusation can be. people now have to prove their innocence. people are presumed guilty because the press puts it out there -- >> so this is our fault? >> partly, yes. people are now presumed guilty and that's the hurdle that the defense has to overcome. >> so they set about overcoming that hurdle, preparing a vigorous defense for pam phillips, as their client readied to face a jury more than 17 years after the murder. coming up -- >> wasn't ron young's dna. >> it was not. >> not pam phillips' dna? >> it was not. >> when "dateline" continues. >> when "dateline" continues ♪ the progressive family ♪ ♪ they're helpful but annoying ♪ ♪ they always leave us snoring ♪ ♪ accidents are boring with the progressive family ♪ so... when do you all go home? never! we're here for you 24/7. how terrifying. protection so good it's scary. 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just ask your asthma specialist about dupixent. did you know diarrhea is often caused by bad bacteria in food? try pepto® diarrhea. its concentrated formula coats and kills bacteria to relieve diarrhea. see, pepto® diarrhea gets to the source, killing the bad bacteria. so, make sure to have pepto® diarrhea on hand. i'm dara brown. here's what's happening. the arizona election audit by trump official showed joe biden expanded his lead over trump by 250 votes. it cost roughly $6 million and lasted five months, panned for sloppy execution. the house is gearing up for two key votes to further biden's agenda. monday, the house will vote on the infrastructure framework that's already passed in the senate. a vote on the $3.5 trillion investment plan supported by progressives will follow. now, back to "dateline." february 2014, more than 17 years had passed since gary triano's shocking death by car bomb outside a tucson country club. his ex-wife, pam phillips, was on trial, charged with his murder. right from the start. pam's defense team there was a rush to judgment. >> it's a lot easier to go after the wife who collected $2 million. easy. that's the low-hanging fruit. >> in his opening statement, he defended not just pam, but her alleged co-conspirator, as well. >> the evidence you'll hear will convince you that not only my client is innocent, but ron young is innocent. >> they insisted nothing was placing ron young or pam phillips in tucson on the day of the murder. >> if you're going to do a bombing, you gotta come in and do the bombing. and they have no evidence whatsoever of that. >> and says pam's attorney, there was no proof ron even knew how to build a bomb. >> there's no evidence he had the ability, the knowledge, there's nothing in his van or any of the stuff that was found on his computer. it's not like he had a workshop in his garage and tinkered on the weekends. and he had a slight tremor in his hand. he didn't have the ability to do this. not at all. >> and this defense expert analyzed some trace dna found on the bomb parts. >> my conclusion is ronald young's markers are not present. >> it wasn't ron's dna? >> it was not. >> and it wasn't pam's evidence? >> it was not, that's correct. >> but all the evidence discovered in his van a month before the murder. maps of tucson, paperwork related to pam and gary's divorce, a note pad with names of some of gary's friends and family, and a receipt, showing ron spent 18 mysterious days in tucson the summer before the murder under a fake name. what was all that about? >> he was looking to help pam get more child support by investigating the hidden assets of gary triano. that's why he was here. >> there was a notebook containing a few names of people associated with gary? >> he was thinking gary might have put his vehicle in his niece's name. gary might have put his vehicle in his girlfriend's name. >> why use within assumed name during his tucson visit? >> she was already on the run from the police in aspen, colorado. he was hiding at that point. >> and as for the theory that pam killed gary for the $2 million in life insurance, nonsense, says her attorney. >> pam had wanted to let go of the insurance policy about a year prior. >> a friend of pam's testified she took over the payments on the policy because pam was short on money. the judge would not allow us to show the friend's face. >> it was about $600 a month and she felt that was one piece that she could be rid of and stop doing, and i said, absolutely not. and if you can't pay for it now, i will. but you need to have the security for the kids. >> and the friend told the jury, she actually forgot to make the last two payments on the insurance policy before gary was killed. >> which you think is significant, why? >> well, because she testified at trial that pam never asked her again about the insurance policy. it never came up in any conversation with her. she just let it go. >> so if pam was killing gary for the insurance money, she would have said something to her friend, like, you made the last payments, right? >> exactly. >> but then how to explain the recorded phone calls between pam and ron. the discussion of payment. >> i'm really happy that your 1.6 was tax-free. >> the threats. >> there's just plenty of stuff that i could literally dig out of the ground. >> and talk of prison time. >> when you sit in a women's prison for murdering -- when you sit in a women's prison for murder -- >> the defense argued ron was extorting pam with threats of ruining her reputation in aspen. >> i mean, i'm living in total fear. >> well, because it will get in the paper and be an embarrassment to you. >> i'm living in total fear. >> i think he was trying to threaten her by saying, look, you see all these things in the press right now, with regard to you being a suspect in this murder, i'm going to make sure that it goes into the front page of the "aspen times"? >> so he's blackmailing her, even though she didn't do anything wrong? >> she didn't do anything wrong. she was concerned about her reputation, because that's everything in the business that she did. >> let's follow that out. though she didn't commit any crime, didn't hire ron young or anyone to kill her husband, she couldn't go to the police when she got extorted? >> do you know how many don't? >> someone threatens to frame me for murder and ruin my reputation, i'm calling the police. >> there are many people who get extorted, blackmailed, and they basically want to make the problem go away. >> and so rather than go to the police, pam continued making payments to ron young. >> the only thing they had were those tapes and that was it. and those were the words of a person trying to get money from another person. that's it. >> that's not a criminal conspiracy in the wake of pam having hired ron to kill gary. >> that was after the fact, after the murder, not before. they don't have a single thing, a single shred of evidence of conspiracy before the fact. >> but if pam and ron did not conspire to kill gary triano, did not carry it out, well, then who did? you are about to hear one wild story of a man police never checked out, a man who had the means, the motive and apparently the desire to kill gary triano. >> coming up -- >> he was coked out of his mind and he was about as evil as they come. >> could he be the real killer? >> he was so obsessed with gary, he immediately started declaring he was going to kill him. >> wait, wait -- >> years later. >> you heard him say that? >> many, many times. >> when "dateline" continues. cs air wick essential mist transforms fragrance infused with natural essential oils into a mist. with an extra boost of fragrance you can see... smell... and feel. it's air care redefined. air wick essential mist, connect to nature. are you one of the millions of americans who experience occasional bloating, gas or abdominal discomfort? taking align every day can help. align contains a quality probiotic developed by gastroenterologists. it adds more good bacteria to your gut to naturally help soothe your occasional bloating, gas and abdominal discomfort. support your digestive health with align, the #1 doctor recommended probiotic. try align today. and try new align fast acting biotic gummies. helps soothe occasional digestive upsets in as little as 7 days. on the eighth floor of a pima county courthouse, pam phillips' attorneys were pleading her case. prosecutors, they said, had it all wrong. not only was pam not guilty, but there was real evidence someone else committed this crime. and the man the defense pointed at has a name you might recall. a lead that came up early in the murder investigation, one that was never pursued. neil mcneice. >> well, he was coked out of his mind and he was about as evil as they come. >> this is lawrence patrick dantonio, a doctor of osteopathic medicine. he sat down with us to share the extraordinary tale he told the jury about neil mcneice. a man dantonio said suffered from a couple normalities. >> one serious drug addiction, and the other, exceeding wealth. >> he first met him in 1989 and said neil's mother paid him to block off his schedule and look after his son, who was at the time addicted to heroin and cocaine. >> he had a very sweet type of humble personality when he wasn't on drugs. >> but hen -- when he would use? >> 180 degree change. very paranoid, blamed all his problems on select people and then went after them with a vengeance. >> and there was his storage locker full of weapons. >> it was all military weapons, m-16s, militarized shot guns and hand grenades on the ground. >> and his use of dynamite for sport. >> he throws dynamite like fire crackers. >> and then there was the company he kept. dr. dantonio said that in the early '90s neil was hanging around with anti-government militia types in montana. after the oklahoma city bombing in 1995, neil's girlfriend showed up at dantonio's house. >> and she swore up and down that she felt he was involved in those financially. so at this point -- >> neil's girlfriend told you that she thought neil had bank rolled the oklahoma city bombing? >> yes. >> dr. dantonio even called a fbi hotline to report neil. there's no ind case -- indication the bureau found any link between neil and the bombing. the fbi did eventually contact dantonio when they were investigating mcneice for something else. mcneice found himself a defendant in a federal wire tapping case, accused of extorting money from a man who'd been his friend. mcneice ultimately pleaded guilty to receiving the proceeds of extortion and was sentenced to two years probation. why was any of this relevant in the murder trial of pam phillips? because, says dr. dantonio, his frightening acquaintance, neil mcneice, had a history of bad blood with none other than gary triano. it started, the doctor says, after mcneice and triano agreed to purchase an item together at a charity auction. >> gary didn't have any money to pay, so neil paid and he was supposed to pay neil 50% later and of course he didn't pay him. >> and then some years later, around 1991, gary tried to get neil to go into business with a high-flying real estate mogul. and their meetings were held not in a boardroom, but in a series of limousines. >> they could keep neil captive audience in the limousine. >> dantonio said gary triano wanted a finders fee for the arrangement. >> gary triano had to pay for all the wining and dining, but it was very costly. >> and there in the limousine, dantonio said gary asked neil for a loan, using pam phillips wedding ring as collateral. >> and this was a magnificent ring. it was -- had two appraisals that i remember, one about $230,000, the other close to $250,000. and he wanted an $80,000 cash loan. >> the doctor says neil agreed, but -- >> he ended up with cubic zirconium worth about 7 to $8,000. >> gary triano switched the ring on him? >> at some point. that's when neil lost it toward gary t triano. he went berzerk. he was so obsessed with gary, he started declaring he was going to kill him. >> you heard him say that? >> many, many times. >> neil said he have would kill gary triano. >> hundreds of times. he was obsessed with him. >> that was the case the defense made to the jury. they argued neil mcneice had the means, the mmotive, and the stated desire to kill triano. >> any evidence that investigators looked at this guy as a possible suspect? >> no. they ignored this whole line of investigation completely. completely. >> the defense even connected neil to a potential bomb-maker. his close friend jerry capuano happened to be a master wood-worker and handyman. >> one of jerry's hobbies was, he was an avid radio control airplane operator, and he would build his planes from scratch. >> he would do it using the same types of components found in the bomb that killed gary triano. before the trial, the defense inspected jerry capuano's former wood shop. >> the new owner allowed us to go into that shop and we found items in that shop that everything there could have been used to build a bomb, cut pipes, wires, several units for the model planes. this is something they could have found in 1997. >> there's just one problem with this defense theory. it's pretty hard to check out. >> where's mr. capuano now? >> he died. >> and neil mcneice died? >> right. >> so they're the perfect third-party defense for you, that's true. >> they're dead. they can't stand up and call you a liar. >> but the evidence is what it is. the evidence is there. >> and the defense argued, dr. dantonio was not the only person to mention neil mcneice as a potential suspect in the case. >> gregory seiffert. >> this friend of gary triano told detective keith st. john about neil mcneice not long after the murder. >> did you tell them about a person by the name of neil mcneice? >> yes. >> they asked you about a lead, and you gave hem a lead. is that correct? >> a friend of mine, something he had said. >> so why didn't the detective at least go talk with neil mcneice? it's just something that fell through the cracks, or because you were so focused on pam phillips? >> that's what the defense would have you believe, that we were focused on pam phillips. i would say there were eight to ten, what i felt, were viable leads in addition to pam phillips. >> and neil mcneice wasn't one of them? >> no. >> in hindsight, do you wish you had dragged him in a room and asked him some questions? >> of course. >> and if you'd done that, what do you think you would have found? >> based on the evidence that i've seen, both from our investigation and from the defense investigation, we would have cleared him in some way. it would not have risen to any kind of a level where we would have been a suspect. >> there was nothing to the mcneice story, said investigators and prosecutors. the true killer, they said, was the person sitting in that courtroom. and if there were any doubts, the prosecution had a star witness who was about to share the secret she'd kept for nearly two decades. coming up -- >> i didn't feel safe. >> a former friend turns powerful foe. >> she started talking about how easy it would be to just hire a hit man and have him taken out. because he had such a predictable schedule, that he played golf every day. >> you're sure you're remembering that conversation with pam accurately? >> absolutely. >> when "dateline" continues. es (susan n) leonard was afraid he'd die of lung cancer. he never thought it would be copd. you always think you have more time than you do. and you really don't. 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>> and if those tapes didn't persuade the jury, prosecutors had one more star witness. a woman who was about to share publicly the secret she had kept for a very long time. >> pam's husband gary and the gentleman that i dated played golf together. >> laura chapman met pam in the late '80s. >> she was really sweet, really nice. >> the two became good friends and laura had a front row seat to pam and gary's upscale lifestyle. >> they had a dining room table that actually came up out of the floor. which i thought was over the top, but it was interesting. >> it was a lifestyle that laura said pam wasn't pleased to part with when gary's finances started to crumble. >> to pam, that was more significant than thinking to yourself, he's a wonderful guy and i love him, and he's the father of my children? >> i have to wonder if she really truly ever did love him, or if it was just the lifestyle that they had that she was in love with. >> when pam and gary separated, pam told laura about the problems they were having. >> she started talking about how easy it would be to hire somebody, that she should just hire a hit man and have him taken out, and how easy it would be, because he had such a predictable schedule, that he played golf every day. and then she started talking about their insurance policy, the life insurance policy, and of course, you know, at the time, you think it's just somebody who's venting, angry. >> you don't think she's actually plotting the murder of her husband? >> of course not. >> just her letting off steam? >> yeah. >> so laura brushed the conversation aside. this was three years before gary triano's murder. pam and laura stayed friends, even after pam moved to aspen. and then november 1st, 1996, laura heard the news about the car bombing. la paloma. >> i remember once i heard it was gary, i remember saying to my husband, oh, my gosh, she really did it. >> but laura chose not to go to the authorities. >> his body parts were blown all over sunrise drive, and it was gruesome. and knowing that somebody could do that and take a father away from five children, i just didn't feel safe. >> and so, for years, laura kept that secret. until one evening in 2011 while dining at a local restaurant. she saw gary's daughter heather and something told her, it was time. >> i said, heather, i think that there's something that i need to tell you. and i told her what pam had shared with me that night at her house. >> and the very next day, laura shared her story with detective st. john. what made you decide to come forward? >> seeing heather and knowing how much she loved her father. and knowing that what i knew could possibly help them convict the person who was responsible for his murder. >> on the stand, the defense attacked laura, saying she must not have been remembering things clearly because of a brain tumor she'd been diagnosed with back in 2005, which laura says is nonsense. >> are you sure you're remembering that conversation with pam accurately? >> absolutely. >> have your health problems, the brain tumor that you survived in any way impacted your memory of things like that? >> absolutely not. >> how important a witness was laura? >> i think she was very important. i think she was critical. this was pam phillips saying that i could hire somebody to take him out. i have insurance on him. his golf game is pretty predictable. i could do it. and that's exactly what happened. >> of course gary's niece melissa had never wavered from her belief that pam was guilty. >> she's the only person that could gain anything from his death, monetarily. >> as the trial headed toward its close, the counsel felt confident, but one never knows which way a jury will go. >> we both firmly believed we had the right person on trial. we both firmly believed the evidence showed she was guilty. the question was, given the circumstantial nature of the case, did we produce enough? coming up -- >> ladies and gentlemen, you're excused to deliberate. >> feel confident? >> i've been doing it long enough to never be confident about anything. >> a 17-year investigation comes down to a single moment. >> it was overwhelming. >> my heart breaks. my heart breaks. >> the verdict when "dateline" continues. - i can't believe you got me this! - yes, verizon is giving one to everyone when they trade in their old or damaged phone. - oh! so like every sister can get this? - yeah. - every aluminum siding installer? - why not? - every doula? - they would have to! every customer, new and old, can get iphone 13 pro on us. because everyone deserves better. - everyone! - horse trainers! - manicurists! - you get the new iphone! - we're alone. - i know. - what're we doing? - i don't know. growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. adorable, but does yours block malware? nope. -it crushes it. pshh, mine's so fast, no one can catch me. big whoop! mine gives me a 4k streaming box. -for free! that's because you all have the same internet. xfinity xfi. so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that? april 2nd, 2014, it had been 17 years, five months, and one day since gary triano and the life he lived had parted company. now, each side had one last chance. the defense insisted that investigators had blinders on when they went after pam phillips, carelessly ignoring other possible leads like neil mcneice, who had openly wished gary triano dead. >> there's plenty of proof that we have shown, that there's a reasonable doubt, and the state went after the easy marks, the woman who got a $2 million insurance policy and the guy that was extorting her. >> but, said the prosecutor, the idea that anyone else was responsible for this murder, other than pam and her co-conspirator ron young, was just pure fantasy. >> it makes for a good story, that neil mcneice didn't like gary triano and it must have been him. makes for a good story that he's got a friend who does model airplanes and has gizmos that are similar to what is used in a bomb. makes for a good story. it's time to hold pam phillips responsible for her crimes. it is time to find pamela phillips guilty. >> ladies and gentlemen, you're excused to deliberate. >> and so the jury retired, and everyone else waited. >> you feel confident as the jury went out? >> i've been doing it long enough to never be confident about anything. >> after two and a half days of deliberations, the jury had a verdict. and the story that had been the talk of tucson for so many years entered its final chapter. >> we find the defendant pamela phillips, guilty of -- >> pam phillips, guilty of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. for the now retired sheriff's detective james gamber, it was finally over. >> it's the end of a long road for you guys. >> yes. went from my second homicide to my last homicide. >> but when word spread among gary's friends and family, there were few if any cheers. >> it was overwhelming. it's surreal. it's just a sad, sad story. in every aspect of it. >> the day that she was convicted was very bittersweet day. >> why bittersweet? >> i'm a mom and i was extremely saddened for all the children that was involved. >> because his kids with pam, their mom has just been convicted of killing their dad. >> and i can't imagine, and my heart breaks. my heart breaks. >> the next month, pam was back in court with her jail-issued jumpsuit and gray hair, looking nothing like the moneyed socialite she had wanted so badly to remain. no longer was she the stepmother gary's oldest kids had come to love, the woman who had been their friend. they each made an emotional statement. >> my father's death was sudden and violent. his life was taken as a result of greed, hate, and malice. >> heather spoke about the woman she had once defended. >> to think i actually stood up for this woman, when others suggested she might have been involved in the murder. i told her she could keep her head held high because she had nothing to do with this murder. boy, was i wrong. >> and then pam phillips had the floor. she turned toward the gallery and spoke out for the first time. >> i just want everybody to know that i am innocent. i am innocent. i am innocent. okay? and i am really, really -- this is hard. this is so hard for me. it's a nightmare. this is a nightmare. and gary was my husband, okay? gary was my husband and he was the father of my children. and i am innocent, and i want everybody to know that. this has been a travesty. it's a nightmare for me, okay? and i don't understand how this can even happen. all right? but i want you all to know that, i am innocent. thank you. >> the judge issued his sentence. the woman who once lived the jet-setting high life would now spend the rest of her natural life in a prison cell. >> fair to say, if ron young hadn't kept such careful records and been a pack rat, maybe neither he or pam would be behind bars right now? >> i think there's a good chance of that. >> if it sounds like a victory, the triano family will assure you, it isn't. >> my uncle isn't coming back. no conviction or life sentence is gonna change that. all it did was, you know, make out of my cousin's mother. nothing else has changed. i'm craig melvin and this is "dateline." >> something is wrong here. the system doesn't want to acknowledge -- that they made a mistake. but you made a mistake. >> the detective was, like, you're going to tell us you did this. and i'm like, man, i ain't did nothing. >> reporter: you hear the judge say, "guilty." >> everything just froze.