reports a harrowing new reality in american and civic life. the only question gehlman leave force the rest of us is this, can we handle the truth about january 6th? namely if a the deadly insurrection on that day was practiced? in explanation of the piece and the issue, atlantic editor's jeffrey goldberg frames the issue this way n atlantic across its long history has held true to the belief that the american experiment is a worthy won, which why we are devoting this issue and so much of our journalism in the coming years to its possible demise. the atlantic lays out in painstaking detail how the insurrection was a dress rehearsal for the next election and explains and reports out how the disgraced expresident is in position if the next election doesn't go his way. trump's next coup has already begun, he says, in it, he says, given opportunity, they will act, they are acting already. allies the disgraced expresident are working to set up what gehlman describes as a apparatus of election left the. some of them have written statutes the seize control about which battles to count, which to discount. which results to certify and which to reject. they are driving out or stripping power from election officials who refused to go along with plot last november aiming to replace them with exponents of the big lie. in sea of events that cause alarm it is perhaps the most alarming development in american politics this year. allies of the disgraced expresident running a largely successful and we should say unchallenged multifaceted campaign to undermine our democracy. it entails convincing millions of americans that the election was stolen. the election was not. entails passing voter suppression bills in states urge approximating the republican party of anyone who acknowledges the reality that donald trump lost the election fair and square and placing big lie loyalists in positions of power who can do trump's bidding when the time comes. that campaign now front and center ahead of the mitt terms. democratics in wisconsin and michigan who suesed their veto measures to prevent a republican takeover of elections, they are facing competitive races against challengers who support the big lie. the atlantic adds that in at least seven states big lie republicans have been vying for trump's endorse men for secretary of state. that's the office that will oversee the 2024 election. trump already endorsed three of them, in the battleground states of arizona, georgia, and michigan michigan. on top of laying the grounds work for stealing the election at the state comes the possibility that the election could end up before the high court. trump's legal team is fine-tuning a constitutional argument that is pitched to appeal to a five justice majority this too has a republican advantage in state house control. a doctrine holds that state houses have plenary or state control of the rules for choosing electors. taking its logical conclusion, it could provide a basis for any legislature to throw out election results it dislikes and elect its preferred electors. the entire crisis is summed up like this, donald trump, came closer to anyone thought he could to toppling a free election a year ago. he is preparing in plain view to do it again. and his position is growing stronger. the existential threat to our democracy posed by the big lie and the expresident and the republican party is where we start this hour. john heilemann is back, host of the hell and high water podcast. frank zig luisy is here, and former congresswoman donna edwards joins us, lucky for us, all three msnbc contributor. john heilemann, we knew this piece was coming. i read it with my jaw on the ground and then read it again reaching for liquor cab knelt. he was wright right when he wrote before the election when he wrote about all the indicator lights blinking red. talk about this piece, the comprehensive case that the next coup is under way and not hitting many road blocks at all. >> well, nicolle, i'm glad that liquor is your prefer substance, because i'm driven to much stronger -- >> i did not grab it. i did not imbibe. that will happen at 6:00. >> i was going to say, let me help you out with that. this is -- you know, the pieces of the coming coup, if president trump runs and if he's the nominee and if he falls short again -- people have been playing these things out for the last few months from people like bill mahr on his show on hbo, also on the circumstance success, we did an episode called coup point two. what is trump doing to subvert democracy. what are the less oons from 2020, what are the places he failed, what is he doing to change election law in various states, to take power away from non-partisan election official and give it to partisans, trump uss in particular. we have gone through all of this before. the main element of gehlman's essential piece i say even if only we can get every modern to read and comprehend articles in the atlantic. deeply reported, richly rendered and really comprehensive in a profound may. here's what struck me, was the fact that gehlman gets into the argument for what's at the core of this, which is not really just these institutional arrangements and these things that trump is doing at the level of politics. it's that he identifies something others pointed to but puts meat on the boechbs it custom is that trump has emerged as a unique figure in american history in that he marshalled a mass movement of people who are willing to employ political violence for his purposes. and that is genuinely i think -- what makes all of this -- the other stuff is super important but i feel like we talk about it a lot. the thing that gehlman really gets at is just the numbers, the staggering numbers of people in the data, in the research that people -- serious people are doing around the country that indicates the kinds of percentages of people in the republican party who don't just believe the big lie. -- that we know. the numbers who believe that the country is at stake, that it is being taken away from them and trump effective will he radicalized them and made them constructs of a broad gauge insurrection that could come and normalize political violence. i have been talking about it with you for a year. i am more worried about it than ever. there is a stat in here that says essentially we are at place now percentage wise that northern ireland was at the beginning of the troubles. and there was political violence in northern ireland on the basis of 13 to 14% of the population who was willing to use political violence. we are there now. the normalization of political violence as a feature of american politics, that is the thing that scares me along with the political stuff temperature undercurrent of it is what is so scary. and it is really really hard to deal with and really shows you how central trump is personally. this is a problem broader than trump. but that trump really is at the core of this problem. >> frank, i want your reaction to john heilemann's points. but i want to put up some of these percentages. because we cover -- not all the time, but we cover fox news from time to time. i think some of this polling explains why we do so, especially with you, when we talk about violence, when we talk about domestic violent extremism, when we talk about people who have been radicalized to believe in trump, qanon. gong goppers who trust fox news 82% believe the lie that the election was stolen. among wrauns republicans who trust farther right media, yes, there is far her right news, 97% of them believe the election lie that the election was stolen. 97%. frank, what do we do? >> yeah. you know, about a year ago, if you had asked me about this or presented me this piece in the atlantic i would have called this what intelligence officials call an over the horizon threat something that's coming, something we should be aware of and think about as a future threat. but the horizon is here. this has been a dress rehearsal for at least a year for radical extremism. worry going to see a sneak preview of it in the november mid terms. you are going to see the qanon adherents, who already -- there has been analysis of their running at local, county, and state levels. and include in those offices election officials, right? county, local. he's putting his people in place. people who are moderate, reasonable republicans have already announced i'm out, i'm out of congress, i'm out of the governor's office. i'm out. now we see people like perdue in georgia who will be involved in the primary. why? president trump needs his guy in georgia. from an intel yens and security perspective what i see happening is going to make the january 6th riot pale in comparison. the absolute premier will be 2024 where successfully trump and his people have eroded public confidence in institutions and elections. we have talked about this, about eroding defends in d.o.j. and fbi. now on a much larger level we have a percentage of america that will not trust election results, and the election results themselves will be so chaotic in terms of people who couldn't vote, people who tried to vote. you know, i put my ballot in, but they didn't recognize who i was. all of that is in place now. so the question is, what do we need to do? we needed an intervention. we need d.o.j. to step it up. i have been the voice of reason with regard to those who say they are taking too slow at d.o.j., with regard to the insurrection investigation. i am the guy that says, no, 700 defendants is not slow. they are doing a great job. where they are going way too slow and they are considering business as usual, and they are playing by rules that essentially are boxing rules while the opponent, the adversary is in a street fight -- where they are go too slow is this, what is happening to election laws, voting restrictions, they need to step in bigtime, forget the political appearance and optics. move in, we need a legal law enforcement intervention. >> frank, let me ask you an uncomfortable question, it makes me uncomfortable asking. 82% of people who trust fox news say the election was stolen. 97% who watch farther right -- i guess that's own and news max and stuff like that believe the election was stolen. it's the a litmus test question, do you believe the election was stolen? the election wasn't stolen. bill barr said it was not. you shhh it be a litmus test question for american institutions like the fbi and d.o.j. for the answer under a polygraph to be no, the election wasn't stolen? i mean, are the people in charge of protecting the rule of law definitely not in the 82% or the 97%? >> so, here's where i will take this. i can tell you -- encouraging that you mention the word polygraph. with regard to sensitive intelligence community positions i can tell you behind the scenes what is happening a much more thorough vetting of who is coming into those very critical institutions and where the security sleernss are involved and polygraphs are permitted, yes. and social media is being vetted of these candidates. that's all very good news. polygraphs are beginning to include questions about extremist ideology and membership in violent groups. that all needs to happen. great. but what we are talking about right now is who is going to win elections. so, you know, i'm convinced there are very good people at d.o.j. and fbi in the intelligence kmont right now. they can do the right thing. it's not being done yet. so the media and the public is going to have to ask that litmus test question you are asking. we can't pael groff candidates but they should be demanding answers, the media should be, you should be, do you believe the craziness over here, do you believe the globe is run by satanistic cannibals, pedophiles? what is up with you? demand toes answers. it is going to be a rough ride. >> this wasn't the direction i was going to go but you set this up and john heilemann is here. it needs to be part of the conversation. the piece is so good we could talk about it the whole two hours. but in some ways jeffrey goldberg's editors know it is as profound and important as gehlman's reporting. i read some of it in the lead. i want to read more to you donna. there is insufficient space in one issue of the magazine to trace the party's decomposition from lincoln's day the ours. it is fair to say its most recent turn toward author containianism threatens the republic it was founded to save. the leaders of the republican, the sole blighted donald trump and the lackey who is support his nefarious behavior are attempting to crumble the found igs das of american democracy. every leader running to curry donald trump's endorsement and currently running the house republican caucus and the sfaet are bending toward all of these authoritarian impulses that goalberg describes. donna i would like you to jump in on this conversation about journalism that seemed to have spilled into the public's view. goldman makes it clear that atlantic's vision will be covering democracy and perhaps its demise. haunting. what do you make about the appropriate role for covering what is actually happening and getting away from one side says this, the other says that? >> well, i think, nicolle, you have hit on it on this show. i mean, for the last five years, you have been covering the tee myself of democracy as we have seen all the guardrails pulled down from the republican party. and the challenge that we have is that -- it isn't just that republican people or those who consider themselves republican voters have steered toward authoritarianism. it's that there are no leaders or few leaders in the house and the senate, in the congress of the united states, who are willing to take another view and a different direction. and so given that there are no leaders, it falls or has fallen squarely on party to be this to put up guardrails and broke our democracy. i don't think it is fair for journalists to do the one side versus the other side. there really is one side here. one is upholding democratic and constitutional conventions. the other is authoritarianism. there is no middle ground there. so we can't cover it as though somehow you know, one side is equivalent to the other side. i think that is where we have been challenged over these five last years. i worry -- we have talked so many times about the ways in which democratic institutions have been threatened. but i think that what this atlantic coverage does is it really puts all in one place this notion that if we don't do something aggressive right now to protect our institutions, they will be gone. they are not there naturally. and they will be gone. i am really concerned that at least as a democrat that i think we really have to step back and say our number one job right now has to be to protect our democracy. and when we are not doing that, this idea of, like, normal government is not going to result in a normalcy at all. >> john, look, this is uncomfortable conversation for people that do this to have about our own industry and about ourselves. but i think jeffy goldberg chose his words carefully. i think that editor's note lands as much of a gut punch to people who have been having these conversations the last five years as bart gehlman's reporting. i think reporting on what ma end up being the demise of democracy in our own country -- i think what follows, do you think it changes the equation in companies that view their ethos as calling balls and strikes? >> probably not. look, there has obviously been, nicolle, whether it is on the network or at the "new york times" and "washington post" and other places, there has obviously been -- in this period, the trump era there has been a greater andrea cochran -- greater degree to try to elevate some of the issues hear the existential to the place they deserve. here's the problem. i agree with everybody jeff goldberg wrote in this piece. the problem is that the atlantic is a great magazine but jeff geldberg's words are not going to reach the people that are -- that need to be reached. that doesn't mean he shouldn't say them. he should say them. you and i say them. we are not going to reach those people. the "washington post" not going reach them. "new york times," not going the reach them. the "wall street journal," not going to reach them. all the elite media institutions are not going to reach them. go back to what you said before, where this belief is hardening, hardening the belief that the election was stolen, and again, i go back to d i think it is so important. in gehlman's piece he sites a security group at the university of chim that did a national poll and found 21 million americans who said they think the election was illegitimate and they would be happy to go to a protest even they thought it would turn violent. when asked the tougher question and actually the question that would normally bring the number down, which was not whether you be whether to go to a protest that might become violent, but do you think it would be legitimate to take up arms to support donald trump's taking office in, the number went up. tens of millions of americans said they believe it is legitimate to take up arms to restore trump to the white house. these people are not reading the media institutions that jeff goldberg's fine editor -- i agree with it 1,000%. it can't be said enough times, loudly enough. it is not going the change fox news, oann, the further right or the conspiracy sites. those places are not going the respond to any kind of claire oncalls from establishment media or calls to claire oncalls to mrlity or shaming or anything else. those are the corner of the information ecosystem that are immune to these calls for common purpose and the try to save our democracy. i think that is one of the biggest problems we have. that is a source of a lot of this danger a source of this misinformation. and it is largely outside the reach of brilliant public spirited journalists like jeff goldberg and you and others. >> and so the beat goes on. i guess, frank, i have to give you the last word. how does this end? >> i hate to -- i hate to be even more dower than this discussion has been, but one of the points that jumped out at me in this piece, nicolle, was the thought that, you know, this is a no-win no matter what happens in 2024. here's what i mean by that. they point out that even if trump were to somehow lose in 2024, no one, at least 30% of the voters, won't accept it. and as john just told us, they will take up arms. they are willing and ready and able. and so, again, when i say january 6th will pale in comparison, imagine a scenario where trump loses in 2024, and his people don't accept it and take up arms. it is ugly either way. >> frank thank you for your candor and for starting us off. john and donna stick around. when we come back, breaking news from the justice department today. the biden administration again is suing the state of texas. this lawsuit is over the state's new congressional maps which the d.o.j. says they havedy diluted the vote of the growing population there, the latino votes. plus, the gop obsession with guns goes to extremes. up with lawmaker's gun toting holiday photo sparking outrage in the nation amid the loss of four high school students who did not return home from school witness day last week. and new today, two army generals are accused of lying about the military response on january 6th. the very late nest that investigation. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break of don't go anywhere. ues after a qf don't go anywhere. the airport can be a real challenge for new homeowners who have become their parents... okay, everybody, let's do a ticket check. paper tickets. we're off to a horrible start. ...but we can overcome it. we're not gonna point out our houses, landmarks, or major highways during takeoff. don't buy anything. i packed so many delicious snacks. -they're -- -nope. would you say, ballpark, when group two is gonna get boarded? 2 hours and 58 minutes. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. someone should've left home earlier. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ as i observe investors balance risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic advantage. the supreme court has observed a core principle of our democracy is that, quote, voters should choose the representatives, not the other way around. the complaint we filed today alleges that texas has violated section two by creating redistricting plans that deny or abridge the rights of latino and black voters to vote on account of their race, color, or membership in a language minority group. >> a big deal. that was attorney general merrick garland just a couple hours ago announcing a formal complaint against texas again over its plan the redraw voting maps in that state citing discrimination towards minorities. marks d.o.j.'s first major legal action on redistricting ahead of the 2022 mid terms in the 2024 preks election n. its lawsuit d.o.j. writes this, quote, this is not the first time texas has acted to minimize the voting rights of its minority citizens. decade after decade, texas has enacted redistricting plans that violate the voting rights act. in enkt aing its 2021 congressional state house plans the state has again diluted the strength of minority voting texans. this comes two ooeks after d.o.j. signed texas over a separate law signed by the governor that would disenfranchise voters including older americans and people with disabilities by banning 24 hour and drivethrough voting measures and giving partisan pole watchers access. we really in knick. donna and mark are still here. nick, you have written some of the most comprehensive and detailed stories about texas's new maps and redistricting. i wonder, if light of this supreme court's rulings whether you think merrick garland's lawsuit will be successful. >> you know, i was actually talking to a couple lawyers and legal scholars about this. and there is two points that can be made. one that make it look like the department of justice has an actually good case and another that says they might be on shaky grounds. for those looking for optimism here for the department of justice, these maps that the texas legislature passed are pretty similar to maps passed earlier this decade that they were forced to redraw after lawsuits challenged them for being both partisan jerry mannedering and racial gerrymandering. so they have been forced to direct their previous gerrymandered maps based on similar things they did in this past redistricting cycle. in particular, two different methods. one was taking lower propensity voting latino citizens and putting them in a district to try and address, you know, voting rights act requirements and that was found to be discriminatory and vita dill lugs. they also were cracking different segments of latino voters in and around dallas and harris county. there is a little bit of a precedent here for the deputy of justice to point to past success in the courts and hope for future success. now, there has also been a major change in redistricting law. and that was a supreme court discussion in 2019, rucho versus common cause where the supreme court said that partisan gerrymandering, meaning any gerrymander designed to give a party an advantage over another party in their map drawing couldn't be challenged in federal courts. it cop challenged at the state level. so that took away a major avenue of challenging gerrymandered maps. i was speaking to a brennan center representative and he said in an area that's pretty squall there is an out there where they can say it wasn't about race, this was about politics. i think this case will be important in determining the future of how the challenges might play out. >> donna, i saw this today. i don't know that we can overstate the importance of how this ultimately plays out. on the other side, republicans are doing this everywhere. i mean f d.o.j. is going to start looking at action, this could potentially be a big, big sort of bucket of their legal challenges for the states. >> and i know voting rights advocates -- are really grateful, finally, that the d.o.j. is acting aggressively in challenging the texas map. i think that there are some other states where work is going on now that might involve challenges as well, states like north carolina, which has a, you know, history of having their maps challenged, too. the problem is that of course republicans really control the map-drawing process in so many of these states, especially ones that are really -- really critical. so it means that the d.o.j. is going to have to look particularly aggressively as them now. they don't have the benefit in the preclearance states because preclearance is no longer an option for the d.o.j. i think merrick garland talked about this today so they would have had the ability to look at maps before they become final and they don't have that option now. so i think it is a good thing that d.o.j. is getting more aggressive now and i think we will see more of these challenges come forward. >> john heilemann it would be a mistake to separate this conversation from the last. after passing 33 laws of voting limits in 19 states this year republicans in at least five states, florida, tennessee, oklahoma, new hampshire filed bills before the next legislative sessions started that seek to restrict voting including lmting mail voting. according to voting rights lab a group that works to expand access to the ballot. it is drawing these -- it's redistricting the hell out of these states. it is voter suppression laws predicated on a lie. there was no fraud. but they take the lie that there was fraud and restrict the access to vote and nick's reporting is they target some of the most secure ways that people voted in the last election. what do you make of the zeal, the shamelessness, the commitment, and the devotion to the voter suppression and the anti-democratic policies and, i don't know -- i don't know what's happening on the left? >> what do i make of it? i make -- look, i -- you know, i -- first of all, you know, this is an older form of how republicans and not only republicans but primarily republicans when it comes to voter suppression of a certain kind have worked to try to game the electoral system is to their advantages. it is becoming increasingly prevalent and prominent as the demographic changes in the country have threatened the prospect of an almost all-white party on being able to have any kinds of political power. so this is like -- this is sort the bedrock on which trump and the trumpists are building. you know, this is -- a lot of these are more traditional forms of voter suppression, and of -- as i said, the gerrymander is a long and terrible transition in american politics. but it is the thing republicans have gotten good at over generations and have given them a certain advantage. they are now building on that, so we will try to make the elections benefit us in an unfair way on the front end. if that doesn't work then we will do the election subinvestigation, the ballot nullification on the back end. they are working it coming and going. nicolle i don't know how many times you and i will be on this show -- maybe it will be every week for the rest of our lives where we say i don't get the asymmetry. i don't get it -- donna agrees with us, too. i don't get democrats who say, like the president of the united states who say this is an extension threat to american democracy and then just don't do anything about it. again, i get the filibuster. i get the fill buster is a big problem. pick the filibuster. i get republicans are not helpful. you have got to get this done without them. but this notion of talking about an existential threat and then just doing nothing is -- it's madness, madness. >> nick, with all of your knowledge of what states have done what on the redistrict front what are you watching for in terms of where d.o.j. may potentially consider other action, legal action? >> i think the first pass the look is north carolina. although they have a democratic governor he doesn't factor into the redistricting process. so the republican-led state legislature passed maps look very, very similar to maps passed a decade ago. and they were forced to be redrawn bois for unconstitutional gerrymanders twice. they targeted the black community in the northern part of the state so much so that longtime representative butterfield is now retiring. i think that north carolina is probably the most likely to face a department of justice lawsuit. also just because, as we said earlier with rucho, the only way that the department of justice can get involved in redistricting is through section two, which is about racial gerrymandering, and not partisan gerrymandering. we don't know what georgia and florida are going do. before this process started there were a lot of democrats concerned about how the redistricting process would go. we have seen preliminary maps that indicate that similar to texas which experienced massive population growth largely driven by residents of color, 4 million residents, 95% of color. georgia population growth driven almost completely by communities of color. to not see lines krahn up exclusively for those communities i think is a red flag. in terms of what's coming up next, i think north carolina is probably the most likely. and then after that, georgia, florida, and then possibly even illinois, a democratic-run state. they have faced lawsuits from civil rights organizations for their gerrymanders. >> nick, thank you for spending time with us. switching gears for us, a viral family photo from a republican congress member angered people on both sides as another deadly school shooting brings zero action in congress and a gun object hes cessed congress shows no signs of wanting to change. that report is next. a mountain of toys to 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[ yelling ] wayfair is my therapy. amen, kim! yup! i'm hiding from my kids, as we speak. the investigation into the tragic shooting at a school in michigan which left four high school students dead and seven wounded is broadening as disturbing new facts come to light. authorities are investigating what actions the school officials took after they were warned about the shootingment is's behavior. they are also looking at whether the suspect's parents had an accomplice after they evaded arrest for a day following charges of involuntary manslaughter. while the tragedy in michigan has reignited the debate over guns in american life, one republican congressman seized the moment to glor guy gun culture. kentucky congressman thomas massie posting a i guess you call it a christmas photo of his family, each of them holding a long gun. the caption reads merry christmas, stan at that, please bring ammo. adam kinzinger tweeted quote i am pro second amendment but this isn't spoeting the right to keep and bear arms, this is a gun feti. a dad of one of the victims from parkland high school said tweepsz we are tweeting christmas photos, here's mine. the michigan shooter's family used to take family photos like mine. -- >> nicolle, you know, i fell like doctor kevorkian here on the show today, i am dr. death, dr. doom. but i have got the say, mayor dinkins used to say about new york as a gorgeous mosaic. and i feel like all the stories today are creating a horrific mosaic. they are all connected to each other. i don't want to suggest that all americans who have guns are violent or insurrectionists. most are not, most of them are law-abiding citizens. within the party, the fetishization of guns of this kind is part the picture that you have been painting today on the show. it's part of i go back to our comments in the first block. this notion -- like, one of the factors when, if we are barrelling down the path towards political violence and mayhem in this country which there is indication as we discussed that we are, the normalization of political violence is a real thing, it is a scary thing. it happened in other countries. looks like it's about to happen here. it is already starting to happen here. what makes it more scary is the prevalence of guns in our culture and the school shootings and all the stuff we talk about all the time. that's tragic. but this kind of i think this, a political culture in which that sands of christmas card is in many quarters not just allowed but celebrated. that there will be people on right cheering that congressman on, people who say everybody who is attacking him is a baby or is woke or is this or that or wants to take their guns away when none of those things are true. all we are or some of us are worried about is that is -- it is not the cause of the problem. but it's a leading indicator. it's a symptom. it is a snapshot of a theme that's part of this. >> laer picture of why where we are headed right now in the fun is so alarming to so many people. >> and it's at a -- this is not about lawful gun owners. donna, lawful gun owners support a lot of the gun safety measures that people that don't own guns support. upwards of 60% of americans support gun safety measures like smart lock and things like that. this is not about the mainstream views. as john is saying, these things are all related. abortion politics are the same. this is about the right lifting up the most extreme view asks celebrating them. and if we are a country that can no longer take a breath when there is a mass shooting at a high school we are, as onis saying, heading somewhere that is pretty scary. >> i have to tell you i was so mortified by that picture, just seeing it, because it really does come on the heels of a community that's trying to heal and families who lost children to gun violence. and you know, i went back and checked. i think there have been 20 school shootings just since august, the beginning of the school year, that have resulted in injury or death in this country. and that is coming out of a covid year where a lot of students have actually been at home. but at school, in some instances they haven't been safe. the congressman displays absolutely no empathy at all for those families for that community. and the contrast of them sort of smile examining the christmas tree and the christian tradition contrasted with the long guns in the photos smiling with long guns was so stark. and it's so startling. i wonder where we are as country that that kind of think gets celebrated and it really doesn't have anything to do with lawful gun ownership or all the things that we need to do to protect the american public. >> my thanks on any day, but especially on a day when all the news is hard. all the news is tricky. and there is thou one better to talk to about it than the two of you. thank you john. thank you, johna. switching gears again, to potential -- potential good signs out there on the omicron variant and the future of covid from the nation's top medical experts. we will tell you about it next. ♪ christmas music ♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ if your dry eye symptoms keep coming back, what?! no! over the counter eye drops typically work by lubricating the eyes and may provide temporary relief. xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. it can provide lasting relief. xiidra is the only fda-approved non-steroid eye drop specifically for the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. one drop in each eye, twice a day. don't use if you are allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. after using xiidra wait 15 minutes before reinserting contacts. ♪♪♪ this holiday, ask your doctor about xiidra. umph! no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. that's why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. and you add the love. are 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[uplifting music playing] ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪ it's another split-screen moment in the fight against covid. there are some promising signs in the fight to defeat covid as experts warn cases of omicron, now in 17 states, are likely to keep rising. dr. anthony fauci says the data iïárïárïárïárïárïárïárïárïárïáï cases without a great deal of severity to it, but it comes amid precautionary restrictions here at home, with president biden's tightened rules for all incoming travelers into the u.s. beginning today, and in new york city, a sweeping vaccine mandate for all in-person employees of about 184,000 private businesses with no weekly testing option. while upping the vaccine requirement to two doses for everyone 12 and older and adding kids five and older for indoor restaurants and entertainment venues. let's bring in dr. vin gupta. we'll get to omicron in a second. l get to omicron in a second the daily picture is still pretty ominous. cases are up 19%. the seven-day average is about 104,000 new cases a day. hospitalizations are up almost 20%. deaths are up 5%. what's going on? >> good afternoon, nicole. this is entirely expected. this is -- what we're seeing, we're expecting about 10,000 weekly deaths, week over week, well into the beginning of march of 2022, and it's going to happen, nicole, probably 90% of it, if not higher, in zip codes that will never consider what mayor bill de blasio so ably did today with the vaccine mandate. these are going to be zip codes that will not be subject, likely, to vaccine mandates, places where vaccine uptake is low so this is where we're at. as a pulmonologist, i worry about cold and flu season, everything non-covid that we bring in and it's going to make for a tricky four months ahead. >> tell me the omicron analysis, and that has not taken over here yet, right? we're still seeing just scattered people that are tested, testing positive for this variant, but it appears, based on dr. fauci's comments, that it could be more contagious but less severe. is that something we can take to the bank? >> early signs are suggesting that if you're vaccinated, especially if you're boosted, i think the fully vaccinated definition should be three shots at this point, minimize confusion, but if that's you, nicole, for your viewers out there, it appears you're going to have mild illness, if you even know you're positive at all, so let's anticipate the news cycle in two weeks. pfizer and moderna are likely to come out with data suggesting that vaccine effectiveness is, say, 50% to 60%. there's probably going to be a dramatic headline there but the devil's in the details. double click on it and say, well, what is the likelihood that these vaccines still protect against ending up in the hospital? that number, we believe, is still going to be quite high, which is why we need to get people comfortable with this concept of vaccine breakthrough illness. setting up a contagious respiratory virus, it's going to be common. >> i do not double click on anything until i know you're going to appear on this show so that's where i am in the pandemic. dr. vin gupta, thank you very much for adding to our understanding of these headlines. we're grateful. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. tarts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. i have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there! we're literally riding together. he gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. can you help me out here? no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. well, we're new friends. to be fair. eh, still. earn about covid-19, the more questions we have. the biggest question now, what's next? what will covid bring in six months, a year? if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today. obtained by nbc news written by colonel earl matthews. in his memo, matthews alleges that general flynn and piat made false and mismist leading statements, at one point calling them absolute and he said he believes that recently released report by the pentagon inspector general is fundamentally flawed. politico, who was first to report on the existence of the e memo reports this. "matthews' memo levels major accusations that flynn and piatt lied to congress about their response to pleas for the d.c. guard to be deployed on january 6th. the report was, quote, replete t with factual inaccuracies and the army has created its own closely held revisionist ld document about the capitol riot that is, quote, worthy of the best stalinist or north korea propaganda. in his report, matthews gives this warning about the pentagon ig report. quote, the danger is that if this report with its glaring errors and wholesale adoption of the w army company line is accorded the deference typically afforded inspector general investigations, the report willg become part of the historical record. a false narrative will have been adopted as fact. discerning what happened on january 6th is too important to get wrong. if we do not fully comprehend and analyze what occurred on yz january 6th, the danger is that history will repeat itself. nbc has reached out to general flynn and piatt for comment. the two did not respond to messages from politico. army spokesman mike brady said m in a statement that the service's actions on january 6th have been well documented and reported on, and general flynn and lieutenant general piatt have been open, honest, and thorough in their sworn testimony with congress and d.o.d. investigators. this all comes as general flynn's brother, remember him, trump ally mike flynn, just received a brief postponement on his deposition before the 1/6 select committee. it was supposed to be hitoday.so that's according to a committee aide. the committee subpoenaed michael flynn last month as it examines trump's allies' roles in the al 2020 insurrection. the numerous and growing ro questions still swirling about what happened at the pentagon ih where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends.or ben rhodes is here, he served as deputy national security advisor to president obama, now an msnbc contributor. jackie is here, "washington post" congressional correspondent andpo author of t early 202 newsletter. miles taylor, former chief of staffta for dhs, now the cofounr and executive director of the renew america movement. ben and miles, i'm going to start with you because you ar worked at the highest levels th inside the government in security agencies. it is knowable what the truth is at the pentagon. how do investigators get to that truth? you first, ben. >> well, i think, nicole, it's i definitely knowable because whel you're dealing with the li military, everything is taperedi as they say. there's a paper trail, paper record of conversations, of requests, of orders that are th given, and there are a limited number of people in a clear established chain of command who you can talk to.tabl i think one of the glaring holes in the whole january 6th story, nicole, has been, you'll recall that in the transition, the senior leadership at the pentagon was kind of hollowed out. you had the secretary of defense removed. you had a bunch of very close loyalists to trump installed and senior civilian positions at the pentagon and that chain of command wasn't what it normally would be,'t w where you had a uniformed military increasingly uncomfortable with an erratic commander in chief and you had these political hacks, ti essentially, installed at the pentagon, and clearly, what investigators are wanting to know is whether anything inappropriate was done or any optical concerns that should have been the concern of uniformed military was given greater prioritization than securing the capitol and that is both important to understand for the historical record but also as it was referenced to make sure that there are clear protocols so the next time this type of thing might happen, there's a better response. >> miles, i want to read a little bit more from politico's reporting. again, they were first to report of the existence of this memo. reached for comment, matthews said ther memo he wrote is entirely accurate. he said this. quote, our army has never failed us and did not do so on january 6, 2021. however, occasionally, some of our army leaders have failed us and they did so on january 6th. then they lied about it and fried to cover it up. they tried to smear a good man to erase history. these are very, very, very serious accusations being cu leveled, and i guess i have the same question for you. the truth, as ben is saying, especially at the pentagon, is knowable. how do investigators, and is it is 1/6 committee, i think they're the most aggressive investigators at this point, how do they go about getting to this truth? >> well, ben took the words right out of my mouth and i've got to agree with him and say, yes, this is a job for the t january 6th select committee and i think, based on this report, and other information out there in the public domain, is we are going to find that, at best, this was what they call in the military a cya exercise, these officers were trying to cover their butts. but at worst, this is a cover-up and we're not talking about people getting their hands caught in the cookie jar. this is about a siege at the capitol and the allegation that senior military officers lied to congress about the response. there's a lot of gravity there, and not just because of the politics around january 6th. there's something ben and i worked on in government called c.o.g., continuity of government. the government is responsible for putting ine place the structures and the procedures to protect our institutions againsn attack and on january 6th, when the u.s.h, congress came under attack, there was a multi-hour delay in the united states military responding. that is a massive c.o.g. failure, and guess who was looking on with delight? america's enemies and our adversaries. so, in light of this information, my message to the january 6th committee would be, heads need to roll. and i mean that figuratively, but the committee needs to be asking who, what, and when? who knew what and when did theyn know it? because we're now almost a yeart out from these events. we're still finding outhe about the timeline, and i don't think this points just to two senior military officers. it potentially points higher upt the chain. what did donald trump's hand-picked army secretary know? what did his hand-picked acting secretary of defense in that hollowed-out pentagon that ben mentioned know? what did he know? when did he know it? i don't want to cast aspersions but this just smells fishy. >> i want tous deal with the elephant in the room. ben, there's someone with a las name, flynn, the other someone with the last anytime flynn has gone around the bend, bat bleepe crazy. he was pardoned. he was calling for all sorts of crazy action.cr he and the pillow guy are still the craziest activists, if that's the right word, lunatics on behalf of the big lie, and the ongoing election denial, election subversion movement. if your last name is the same as that guy's last name and you work in the united states wo military, your salary is paid by the american taxpayer and you defend this country here and abroad, don't you want to come up to congress and clear the record and clear your name? >> you would think so, nicole. i mean, especially because the y different information that we have out there, for instance, is that we have, from reporting, that michael flynn was at this very time putting forward crazy theories all the way to the ll commander in chief, the president of the united states, about the capacity of the military to somehow play a role. in seizing ballots or in some fashion legitimizing whatever fanald trump's power grab was. we also know, i think, nicole, , any of us who had friends in the military at the pentagon, we were hearing concurrently in on november and december that it was a very unsteady environment over there. you had people, by the way, who were very close tohad mike fly people like kash patel, early in the trump years, going over and taking jobs like chief of staff at the pentagon and potentially being people that were exploring these theories in the context of the united states military and the united states pentagon and t then you have these questions on january 6 youth. now, it's the job of an investigative committee to try to understand, okay, were the crazy theories presented to donald trump? were those ever circulated at the pentagon? we'd like to know the answer to those questions. that seems like a relevant thing to pursue. were people in the chain of command at the pentagon, were civilians who were not necessarily in the chain of command but they were political figures installed at the pentagon, seeking to involve themselves in operational discussions on january 6th 6 around the potential deployment of the national guard? if you had uniformed military officers making decisions not rs based on security, which is their job, but based on things like political optics, at a point of crisis for the securito of american democracy, why was that happening? so there's a lot to examine, and yes, i think the fact that the flynn brothers and notoriously have been close throughout the years, it's hard to avoid that elephant in the room when you're looking at this, particularly lo michael flynn f was taking such an active role in the conspiracy theorizing anr advising of the president of the united states at this moment. michael flynn probably had far more contact with donald trump a than his brother did at this time. >> but i mean, the larger point is that we don't know. these are all questions, i guess, before the 1/6 committee. >> we don't know, yeah. >> e dojackie, let me bring you on this memo, just on the matthews memo where he calls out flynn and piatt, calls them liars.he the cumulative of the testimonies and the attendant negative stories coupled with the revelation that army leaders had, for a time, falsely denied that lieutenant general flynn was even on the 2:30 p.m. call worked to create an narrative which made army senior leadership look bad. a in march 2021, major general walker was told by a friend that lieutenant general piatt was sot upset with walker that he directed the development of an army white paper to retell events of january 6th in light of more -- in a light more favorable to flynn, piatt, secretary mccarthy and the army stuff. the army staff sought to change that narrative and to create ana alternate history which would be the army's official recollection of events.n piatt and laneve literally changed facts and recollections overnight. the end product, a revisionist tract, worthy of the best stalinist or north korea prop propagandaist was close hold. again, these are really, really serious hese aallegations, not f the conduct during the insurrection but of a cover-up. what is your sort of understanding of these events and this memo? >> yeah, nicole, we haven't gotten too much response to the memo just yet as the january 6th committee has not returned to congress to resume their work before the holidays but i think that if we're taking a step back here, it reminds us just how broad this investigation is and just how many various threads there are that this committee is pulling at.riou both flynn brothers have been a target of this investigation from thef very beginning. if you run through all of the public documents that have beenc released by the committee, the records requests, the various subpoenas, and you read the fine print, the committee has, from the veryommi start, been concer with the abuse of emergency powers, potentially, especially as it relates to the pentagon and people like charles flynn. i imagine that they are potentially going to revisit all of the congressional testimony that was given in the months th after the january 6th insurrection. you know, but i think that there arei far morthe serious charge thanus lying to congress that you're going to see the committee ultimately go after, and that is getting to, i think, the bigger picture of some of f the events that happened at the pentagon like, again, how trump wielded and abused potentially his emergency powers.ge you know, ben had mentioned people like kash patel who -- kash has been subpoenaed. he was the chief of staff who wased installed at the pentagon after mark esper and jennifer stewart were ousted.ar there was an incremental erosion of institutions that ultimately led to a level of preparedness that we should not accept from our federal government for this day, and it's been a sort of, i think, we've been caught up in the process and the day-to-day of the committee so far, who they're subpoenaing next and these bigger, flashier trump names, but these sub-plots that they're following as well are just as important. >> well, it's such a good point, and i was just about to put up all the names and all the deadlines but you're right. that's process. i mean, the larger piece that we're trying to understand is why, and i sat on live television staring at it. without a bleep button. why we sat and watched the images that we watched. it looked like a tailgate for a lot of it. looked like violent, medieval hand-to-hand combat which is ho harry dunn described it in sworn testimony. we've now seen lots of video compilations from the "new york times" and other news me organizations, "the washington an incredible sort of tiktok but we've never answered the fundamental question of why the maryland national guard didn't get in cars and go. i could have driven there from new york and be there faster. we never have answered the big question, miles, of why nobody responded to the fire. >> yeah. that's absolutely right. and there's -- nicole, there's n even bigger questions that we didn't talk about today. why was the secretary of et homeland security on an international overseas junket ov a day when we knew there was potentially going to be a high-impact homeland security event in the nation's capital? there's a lot of questions that need to be asked here and i think thiso be most recent repos shows us that we don't need sherlock holmes to know that this is leading down a bad direction, okay? if both of the flynn brothers are alleged to be lying, what i would call the twin flynn spin about this episode, that's enough to be able to tell if there's probably something else afoot here and we need to take a look, and you have hit the nailo on the head, nicole. we need to know why these people lied, what specifically they lied about, and who they were lying for. we don't have answers to those n questions. that's what we're going to couno on the committee to do, and i'll add one last data point. i just spent this past weekend at the reagan national defense forum out in california. ben's been out there to that before. and at that event, you usually talk about foreign threats and the panelsally are about foreig threats, but you know what? k in between meetings this year, it was the first time i've ever been out there that so many people were talking about domestic discords and the threats to this country coming o from within. and the select committee is zeroing in right on one of the most important ones we've seen in many, many years in this country. >> jackie, i do want to go ahead and put up some of those s deadlines that we're going to be watching for with your help all week. jeffrey clark's deposition was postponed.h yo to december 16th.to it was supposed to happen this saturday. the witnesses who have been granted postponements include mike flynn, nick luna. tomorrow, there are some so deadlines for documents from that group of extremist group members. we think we were on the air when the subpoena dropped. it includes thes. proud boys. jason van dyke, henry tarrio, the oath keepers, elmer stewart rhodes, one of those other groups, the first amendment preer toian leader. john eastman intends to invoke the fifth. on friday, jason miller is supposed to show up. what do we expect to actually be produced to this committee this week, jackie? s >> yeah, nicole, i didn't mean to down play the process. >> no, no, no. you made a perfect point. you made a perfect point. it was more important. we'll come back to the process now. >> you know, following these bread crumbs is our life blood at the moment, and especially, l think, that chart in particular helps illuminate just all of the various threads that the committee is following. you have, as jamie raskin has said before, various rings. he views it as three rings. we have heard that there are five different courses of investigation that are being pursued by the committee.ve d so, you have people that are ha following the money. that's -- that means subpoenaing people like budowich, who was involved with the planning of the rally. then you have the oath keepers and the extremism. you have the committee looking to figure out who funded these people, how they communicated with each other,se and what tha organization was like. that is the outermost ring, as jamie raskin has noted and those are the people who actually, ultimately, stormed the capitole and helped commit the violence. and then you have this inner legal ring, these are the people that helped former president trump almost puller off a coup. that was really led by people like john eastman, who wrote thw legal memos that informed the president and his cronies of how they would potentially overturn the results of the 2020 election. it's -- every week has been a crap shoot in terms of what we are going to be hearing from these people and what we're going tocrap se get. actually, i think one of the most illuminating public pu documents that we have received so far is the deposition between jeffrey clark and the committee where they released the list of questions that adam schiff wanted to ask jeffrey clark butf that he refused to answer. i wonder if we're going to get the same with john eastman, if he decides to plead the fifth and which questions in qu particular he'll ultimately say that he does not want to respond to, because they could potentially incriminate him. and whether or not that might lead to the committee holding him in contempt. so, this is certainly a fascinating week, and you know, i hope we can eventually get our hands on some of these documents . >> that is such a good way to set up the week. even the unansweredho questiono give us a great window into what lines of investigation the committee is pursuing and p they've played their cards pretty close so that's a great point. g jackie, miles, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. ben sticks around. when we come back, the story of how one january 6th insurrectionist was actually radicalized, how she transformee from a nonvoter to an ardent trump supporter and became obsessed with qanon in just a matter of months. our friend, ayman, takes us there next. but in the wake of the deadly school shooting in ad michigan, a brand-new study shows how dangerous our schools have become for all our kids, especially during the trump ly years. we'll ask an expert what we can do now. and who gave the disgraced ex-president $1 billion to finance a new media company? federal regulators want to know amid concerns about national security. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. 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♪ confessing, yeah ♪ ♪ oh, i've been shaking ♪ ♪ i love it when you go crazy ♪ what are you doing? ♪ baby, there's nothing holdin' me back ♪ i knew you were a weirdo. what happened on january 6stth was the tragedy for a million different reasons. but we can't allow ourselves to be so hardened that we ignore one of the heartbreaking consequences, the substantial human cost, not just the lives lost but the lives twisted, those people caught up in the cycle of disinformation, misinformation, radicalization, rage and extremism. that is broadly the primary theme of a remarkable, remarkable piece of storytelling and journalism from our friend and colleague, ayman mohyeldin, who through a personal connection assembled the story of roseanne boyland who became obsessed with the qanon theory before her death at the capitol on january 6th. here's some of her story. >> for most of her life, roseanne boyland hated politics. she was shy and she rarely left her home. >> she was super involved in her family, you know, we come from a large catholic family, so we're always in each other's business. we're always hanging out. >> in the summer of 2020, though, her family started to notice that something seemed a bit off. >> she started, like, getting a little bit closed off and distant, and like on christmas, she was here, but she was just on her phone the whole time. she wasn't, like, participating in the opening of presents. >> roseanne began to withdraw from family commitments and started going down a qanon rabbit hole of child trafficking conspiracy theories. her family watched in horror as the events of that day unfolded. >> we just watched the news, and the second that they said that the second person died or somebody, yeah, there was more than one death, i knew automatically that it was her. just had this gut, you know, feeling that that was her. >> late that night, her family got the call they had been dreading. roseanne had died at the capitol in the middle of a crowd trying to force its way past the police line. >> joining us now is ayman mohyeldin, host of msnbc's "ayman" and the new host of "american radical," which is the number one podcast in america right now. >> as of this afternoon, number one on apple podcast. >> congratulations. >> thank you so much. >> we have to -- you told me this story in the make-up room over many, many weeks, and i kind of waited to see you on the days that we were both in there to hear what happened next. you have to tell how this started, how you thought to sort of report out this story. >> yeah, you know, i think a lot of people are surprised that i actually went to high school in georgia. i was born overseas but when we moved to the u.s., i group up in georgia so three days after the insurrection, when the entire country was consumed with what was happening in d.c., i got a message from an old high school friend of mine, somebody that i knew very well, played soccer with, and he reached out to me on facebook, saying, you've probably seen the news. my sister-in-law, roseanne, we believe, was radicalized in the span of under six months. she died on the capitol on wednesday. would you be willing to hear her story? and it just stopped me dead in my tracks because first of all, my friend used the word radicalized which was such a powerful word. i wasn't expecting someone to use that word in the context of america. because i've seen it so much overseas. >> right, right, and covered how we deal with radicalized -- >> exactly. for him to use that word to describe what was happening on january 6th was, for me, eye-opening, and immediately, i said yes and i spoke to him and went down and saw him after 20 years and met the family and they gave us this incredible access. we spoke to the parents. we spoke to her friends. we had access to some of her journals and diaries and some of her social media posts and family group chats. and we were able to begin to composite this radicalization that happened in the span of just six months. >> so, how did it happen? >> so, it began, according to the family, what we've been able to understand, by her meeting someone in her recovery that ultimately introduced her to the qanon world, which she became obsessed with. and when i say obsessed with, i'm not talking about somebody who just believed in conspiracies, but somebody who would spend the entire night watching video after video after video, beginning to share them with they are friends and family, so much to the point that her family, which was seeing this in realtime, was pushing back a little bit and saying, like, hey, this is kind of crazy stuff. but they knew that she had a sobriety problem and they didn't want to alienate her. they knew she had struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts so her mother was talking about how, you know, as long as she wasn't talking about hurting herself, it was something that we didn't think was going to be so harmful. and it was something they struggled with for such a long time because as you saw, she withdrew. she wasn't the loving, caring aunt that was always present around christmas, opening presents. and that's when they realized that this was something problematic, because it morphed. it morphed from just a qanon conspiracy theory to becoming an ardent supporter of donald trump and then ultimately thinking that the only way you're going to protect this conspiracy theory is to somehow decertify the election, to overthrow the government, and keep donald trump in power, because he's the one that is fighting the good fight on our behalf. >> did they know that she had gone to washington on january 6th? >> they find out at the very end. it's not something she talked about very openly and in fact, the sister finds out really just the day or two before, that she had gone up there. but -- and they tried to tell her, don't go. and she had promised them if she went, she was just going to go to the rally, not march on to the capitol, and that is a big part of this mystery. how did she end up going from where the trump speech was into the march all the way up to the -- into the capitol on the steps on january 6th? and it's part of the unanswered questions that we set out to answer in the podcast series. >> i have one more question for you and you have to promise to come back every week. there's a new one every week. >> every thursday and sunday. i'll be back. >> so, how did having this connection to someone who died there change how you've covered the events of the last 11 months? >> you know, that's a really good question. it's made it very personal for me and when i have covered radicalism and extremism overseas, it sits at a nexus of disinformation, destitution, and demagoguery. people have -- >> right, right, like in the prison system. you cover how they get radicalized. >> and people have disinformation, and especially now with social media, it's being bombarded at you 24/7. what was new in america was the presence of a demagogue, someone who was able to manipulate this into saying to these people, hey, follow me, i can cure your society's ills. i alone can fix it. if i shoot somebody on fifth avenue, my supporters are still going to love me. that's what was so dangerous because i had seen that overseas with the leaders of terrorist organizations and religious figures but to see this now happen in a community like kennesaw, which i knew to be, you know, a very special community, it was painful, and it was one of the things when i was speaking to this family, saying, like, look, people are going to view her as a trump supporter. you know she was way more than that. you've seen the trajectory of her life and they're trying to figure out where the system let her down, because it's a process of over years that she started to have the destitution, that she was being bombarded with this disinformation, that she was being promised a way out if she believed and subscribed to this conspiracy theory and that donald trump was going to be the person who can save her life or give her a sense of purpose or save this country. so, it's been a personal experience for me, and it's brought me closer to my friend, justin, who obviously is the brother-in-law in this. but at the same time, it's with the hope of trying to get the family some answers as to how she died, not just over the span of six months, but in the final minutes of her life and those steps on the capitol that day. >> how's her family doing? >> they're doing all right. i think they're always nervous about the attention that comes with a story like this, because, you know, the right has exploited her death, and i think they want to look beyond that. it's not to say that they don't have questions about how she died, but when we asked the family, do you believe the police killed her? they would say, no. but they do have questions about the autopsy report and we'll talk about that in the future episodes of the podcast. >> okay, well, you'll have to be back for every one of them. really incredible. congratulations, number one podcast in america. >> thank you. >> new podcast "american radical" is out now. thank you so much, ayman. next for us, when we come back, how to keep kids safe in school amid a rise in violent behavior and one of the two political parties totally unwilling to act. the two political parties totally unwilling to act love you, sweetheart they guide me with achievable steps that give me confidence. this is my granddaughter...she's cute like her grandpa. voya doesn't just help me get to retirement... ...they're with me all the way through it. come on, grandpa! later. got grandpa things to do. aw, grandpas are the best! well planned. well invested. well protected. voya. be confident to and through retirement. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ instantly clear everyday congestion with vicks sinex saline. for fast drug free relief vicks sinex. instantly clear everyday congestion. and try vicks sinex children's saline. safe and gentle relief for children's noses. one of my favorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. bye mom. my helpers abound, i'll need you today. our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when everyone is smiling and having their fun i can turn my sleigh north because my job here is done. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. four kids are gone. four kids don't get to go home tonight and see their parents. four kids don't get to take that math test they dread. >> we don't know how to move on from a shooting. >> i shouldn't be living in fear as, you know, going to school. i didn't know if i was ever going to see my parents again. it was truly terrifying. >> hard to watch. heartbreaking interviews with students in the michigan school where four high school students were killed during a shooting last week. tragically, events like this are not outliers. they're becoming more common. a report by the government accountability office found that physical attacks with a weapon in schools nearly doubled early in the trump administration. the report found that in a two-year period, from school years 2015 to '16 to school year 2017 to '18, attacks with weapons jumped 97%. according to the most recent data available. at the same time, hate crimes increased 81% and sexual assaults rose 17%. that's the data. joining us now for the conversation, shannon watts, founder of moms demand action for gun sense in america and kimberly atkins stohr, senior opinion writer for the "boston globe" and msnbc contributor. shannon, the data is the data and on another day we can get into why but this is america right now. this is, you know, kids in high school, this is the life they live. if your kid's younger than that, this is the trajectory into which they're heading, and you said something that was so prescient, and i quoted you all week last week. i think it was on wednesday. you talked about what we can do, and you always get at the despair of congressional inaction on gun safety measures. you talked about doing things like holding the parents accountable, and i want to just pull this thread a little more. what else can we do? >> there's so much we can do. you know, the discussion has been more about the reactive safety measures that were in place. they had a full-time sheriff's deputy. they had regular active shooter drills, they had security cameras. teachers flagged warning among the students. but none of these measures were enough to stop a school shooting because ultimately, that student still had access to a gun inside their home. and so, what we need to do is keep guns out of the school in the first place. one way to do that is a secure storage law. these laws have been passed in 23 states so far. they're shown by data to work. they are noncontroversial. they're nonpolitical. they're nonpartisan. they should be passed by every lawmaker immediately from city councils to state houses and also even through school boards. and then also, red flag laws. we have now passed these in 19 states. they allow families or police, sometimes even educators, to get a temporary restraining order that removes the guns from someone who is a danger to themselves or others. a very effective law that is working in the states where it's at. again, something that could be passed at a federal law. and we also need to educate people about secure gun storage. guns in your home, when you have children, should be locked, unloaded, and separate from ammunition. it will save lives. it's pretty intuitive, and yet it's not being done by all gun owners. >> and there's some great new reporting on the safe storage laws, especially in michigan, but on -- this tragedy in particular, and i don't want the news cycle to brush it under the rug, but which one of those would have helped? the parents gave him the gun. not only did they not lock him up, they handed it to him. it was a gift. he was caught searching for ammo and the mom wrote, lol, next time, don't get caught. so, what intervention would have helped here? >> well, again, a secure storage law that requires gun owners to securely store their firearms. you know, i think that's why the charges made against the shooter's parents in michigan are so incredibly important. it should be a wake-up call to all gun owners across the country that if you are negligent, you will be held responsible, and it needs to be a wake-up call, frankly, to lawmakers at all levels of government from schoolhouses to state houses to washington, d.c. not only do we need to educate gun owners about the responsibility to securely store their firearms but we have to pass laws, and we have to enact policies that will hold people who don't do that accountable. i mean, it's much like drunk driving in the '80s, if you remember, someone would drive drunk and kill their loved ones and people would say, they can't be punished. they've suffered enough. and a group of moms came along and said, no, laws are the moral underpinning of our society. if we don't hold people accountable for this, it will never change and the same thing is frankly the same situation right now with secure gun storage. we have to hold gun owners accountable. >> kim, i want to read some of the reporting about the prospect of doing just that in michigan. this is in the "washington post." a michigan safe storage law was introduced last spring in the state legislature but stalled because of a lack of support. that could change in the wake of the shooting with the state legislature now pushing for a new consideration and michigan attorney general dana nessel backing the move. a "post" analysis found that such measures could have a profound impact since more than half of the country's school shootings since 1999 could have been prevented if the children who killed their class mates did not have access to firearms. an academic study found that if number of gun-related accidental deaths and suicides would drop by as much as a third. unlike another gun -- unlike other gun control measures, safe storage laws do not restrict the number or types of firearms people own. it's hard to read that and then describe it as just a possibility. i mean, what in here doesn't garner the support of every person walking the planet? >> i mean, so much of this, nicole, is cultural. i mean, i'm from michigan. i went to high school about a 20-minute drive away from this high school in oxford, and i knew people, had classmates who were given guns as gifts. i'm not saying that every one of them and their families were irresponsible in the ownership of that but it speaks to a culture that exists in so many parts of the country, and you add on top of that not just political and social divisions, but the fact that these divisions have been, you know, have such a violent rhetoric attached to it. children are not immune from this. and i think that those are some of the factors behind what we saw happen tragically in michigan, but i think shannon is absolutely right. laws that target two things. one, safety, things like requiring that they be locked up, and also, not targeting the types and numbers of guns but who has them, things like the red flag laws. these are things that are a common sensical. hopefully events like this will help push them but we've seen so many times that there's so much resistance to this type of gun reform. i can't say that i'm expecting that to happen here. >> this is an unbelievable state of affairs. we'll stay on it with your help. shannon watts, kim atkins stohr, thank you so much for joining us. when we come back, federal regulators are looking into who gave the twice-impeached ex-president $1 billion to finance a new media company. whether an investment of that size could be a threat to national security. that brand-new reporting is straight ahead. y. that brand-new reporting is straight ahead people with moderate to severe psoriasis, or psoriatic arthritis, are rethinking the choices they make like the splash they create the way they exaggerate the surprises they initiate. otezla. it's a choice you can make. otezla is not an injection or a cream it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. experience the power of sanctuary they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ s one of my favorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. federal regulators are investigating the financing of a new media company backed by the disgraced ex-president who is still exiled for obvious reasons from posting things on mainstream social media sites. it comes after his company and digital world acquisition announced that they've raised $1 billion from a, quote, diverse group of institutional investors. tim o'brien writes in bloomberg today on why that matters if there's a trump 2024 bid for the white house. quote, trump had his hands on the national security apparatus once before and may well again. the identities of the investors who just tossed $1 billion his way because anyone who is able to buy their way into trump's good graces by plopping a bag of money on his desk would sway policy, which makes trump a national security threat. and just moments ago, republican congressman and trump ally devin nunes will retire from congress in january. wait for it. to be the ceo of trump's new media company. trump media and technology group, tmtt. joining our conversation is tim o'brien, senior columnist for bloomberg opinion. ben rhodes is here. so, tim, explain what you're reporting and this nexus with the national security threat and more debt on -- and sort of financial ties and obligations to potential foreign investors. >> well, you know, nicole, it's worth remembering in the context of all this that when trump left office in 2020, unwillingly, he had over probably a billion dollars or so in debt hanging over a real estate and resort portfolio that had been battered by the pandemic. and he's got a lot of debt coming due soon and he began scrambling for cash. he recently sold off his hotel in washington. it was a prized family asset. it was a money loser. but they needed cash. and now, lo and behold, he is using a spac, which is a somewhat opaque and quick trigger way of taking a pockets. they have not given much information out about the financials around this proposition. a lot of the security filings that usually attend something like this haven't been filed. they're moving forward. they've now pulled devin nunes in as ceo even though he has absolutely no experience running social media companies. then on top of it, they've revealed on saturday that they just got a billion dollars promised to them for the new venture but they are not going to disclose the identities of who those investors are, which is just -- it would be a red flag for a company managed by any old person but of course donald trump is not any old person. he is a former president. he could be president again. the extent to which this new venture is a pipeline for influencing donald trump when he gets back into the white house should draw a lot of scrutiny from people. and it is not a hypothetical question about, you know, for example could saudi arabia be one of the investors because we already know that steven mnuchin has gone out and raised money from the saudis for his new venture. jared kushner has solicited the saudis for money. so is trump doing the same? if you have a scenario like that, what does it mean when he can start to do policy favors for foreign powers that he has already coddled as president? ben, 1 billion masked dollars. what are your concerns? >> i mean, there are concerns all over the place, even though devin nunes isn't who i would hire to be put in charge of anything. first of all, you're talking about an endeavor where you can use these types of platforms to spread disinformation, and so much of our political and media vierpt has been bombarded with this information from donald trump and his allies and certain foreign powers. the central tool in the authoritarian playbook donald trump is already using. and now we know it is being very well funded by completely anonymous donors. i totally agree there is the risk of a foreign influence because we also know donald trump doesn't really respect any guard rails anyway. you know, i think a lot of us were skeptical at the time when they were doing whatever muhammed bin salmon wanted including covering for his brutal murder of jamal khashoggi part of the concerns beyond the basic human rights concern was that was being done because there was going to be an appetite once the trump family got out of office to hit up the saudis for money. we've seen exactly that happen with jared kushner and steve mnuchin and the idea that essentially because they did what the saudis wanted when they were in office that they can get that kind of pay off on the back end. now you have potential downpayments in what donald trump could do for somebody in the future in the guise of this $1 billion and it could be a foreign actor seeking to influence actions donald trump would take if he gets to be president again but i want to know given the scale of investment who might be building what could be a disinformation platform for donald trump as he mounts his political comeback and his inevitable likely run for the presidency again. it is a real blinking red light to me. >> tim o'brien we trust you'll stay on it and continue to come and keep us posted. ben rhodes, thank you for spending time with us today. quick break for us. we'll be right back. omething di. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. wondering what actually goes into your multi-vitamin. at new chapter. you can pick the best plan for each employee its innovation organic ingredients and fermentation. fe wellness well done. >> man: what's my safelite story? 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"the beat with ari melber" starts right now. hi, ari. happy monday. >> happy monday. thank you so much. welcome to "the beat" everyone. we have a lot we're tracking right now. news out of doj, the attorney general suing texas for a scheme to basically use voter maps to help republicans cheat. that is what the prosecutors at doj are saying here under the garland leadership. also, there is the perception and the reality. we have brand new numbers today about what the press may be getting wrong about joe biden and why he is getting as tough a treatment sometimes as donald trump. that is different than the d.c. narrative but what the data shows. later, white supremacists out there in the open at the lincoln memorial. we have ken burns on that and so much more. very excited to welcome ken burns to "the beat" later tonight. we begin with if it's not outright good news let's call it cautiously possibly good news. because we are getting optimism based on data