so they're not paying bank fees and a lot in health, new vaccines. so we're by far the biggest funder on malaria, coming up with new bed nets, new drugs... ..a vaccine, a way of killing mosquitoes. yeah, but if you think about this in terms of ethics, are you driven in your philanthropy mostly by excitement, by the potential outcome, or does it come from some deep psychological motive, you know, guilt, a feeling that you should live a life that's purposeful, a feeling that, you know, you genuinelyjust don't know what to do with this cash? i not only want to put the money in, but i want to put my time in and assemble people so we can learn, you know, what health systems work, which ones don't. i, you know, find the work very fulfilling. i get to learn new things. get to go to interesting places. yeah. there's no sacrifice involved. it's... well, it's quite a lot of financial sacrifice! sure, but i don't have any use for that money. i mean, i'm not denying myself, you know, the world's best cheeseburger, you know? is that your food of choice, a great cheeseburger? it's the food i eat more than anything else. bill gates is able to enjoy philanthropy because for much of his life, he was the richest man in the world. hey, bill gates is here. and though his beginnings were somewhat humbler, he still had a pretty comfortable childhood. born in seattle in 1955, his father was a successful lawyer. his mother, a teacher and influential community figure. but it wasn't all plain sailing. one thing that some people may not know about you is that very interestingly, your family referred you for some therapy when you were 12. what was going on that made them do that? oh, i wasjust a little rebellious, and they thought if i talked to a psychologist, i'd. ..understand about, uh... ..cooperating with the family, maybe? obeying the rules. but i2—year—olds are rebellious, wasn't it quite a big dealfor a family on the west coast of america then, what's that, late 1960s? isn't that quite a big deal? it wasn't that unusual, but... ..i, you know, was reading on my own and, you know, trying to prove my independence. the person i went to see was fantastic and actually got me to think in a way that, you know, having any conflict with my parents was kind of a waste of time. so, in the end, they were glad they had me do a few sessions. would you recommend it? um, surei... ..i think, you know, when you step back from your life and look at where you're having conflict or where you're not fulfilling the things you want, it can be helpful to have a professional who's guiding you through that thought process. clearly, the therapy helped. bill excelled at high school, where he made friends with fellow genius paul allen. they spent hours playing around with a teletype computer, initially writing code for fun, before monetising their skills writing software for the local government. but the key moment would come in 1974, when paul allen saw the new altair 8800 computer on the cover of a magazine and implored his old friend bill to help him write the software. gates dropped out of harvard to dedicate himself to his new company, microsoft, and 20 years later, he was the richest man on earth. i'm fascinated by the combination of factors that make great entrepreneurial success. so there's key partnerships, in your case with paul allen, your co—founder. there's a sense of vision, a sense of purpose, a huge work ethic and also a sense of timing, being in the right place at the right time. when you think now, with the benefit of experience, about that magic mix that makes great entrepreneurs, what do you think is the vital ingredient? well, i think it takes most all of those to be there all at the same time. we recognised something that very few did, which was that the software would be quite valuable, that the hardware would get so cheap, that actually, the software piece would be important and that the computers wouldn'tjust be this big, expensive thing that only big companies had — it would literally be, as we said — people laughed at the time — on every desk, in every home. and it was one of the things that made microsoft so wealthy so quickly, that you were first. we were first. then, a lot of other companies came along, and they came and went. 0ur speed of engineering, our low prices, our global presence — we became not only the first but also, by far, the most successful software company. it's interesting you mention low prices and competition because some of our older viewers will know from these very famous antitrust cases in the 1980s and 1990s — basically very huge, very big, very costly antitrust cases looking at whether or not microsoft unfairly crushed competition — to what extent would you say that your business practises back then were pretty ruthless? you know, we were vindicated on all of that stuff. you know, the company never, er, had to raise our prices or anything. you know, they were saying that it was hard to compete with us. i mean, you worked very hard for a long time. you are a hard taskmaster. you memorised the numberplates of your staff's vehicles sometimes, so you knew when they were coming in and out of the car park. you had famous outbursts of, "that's the stupidest effing "thing i've ever heard!" you very rarely took holidays or weekends. there is something of a parallel here with some people, arguably, describe what elon musk does these days. and you've described your own work ethic as "fanatical". but if you're honest now, looking back, do you feel like you were something of a tyrant? uh... did you have to be? working, for me, was a guaranteed way to make tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. laughs. and to work on some of the most interesting, amazing things possible. i wish you'd given me a call! do you have any regrets about how you treated staff? the people who worked — who would've been in meetings directly with me, and were all hyper successful, there may have been some people who couldn't, you know, my style, which was, "hey, we've got to move fast. "we've got to be tough." you know, we may have missed some very talented people, but, you know, everybody who was there wanted to be there. it was... i bet everyone would describe it as one of the most amazing parts of their life. i wonder, in that context, what you make of — and whether or not you look with a wry smile — at elon musk�*s management style. i mean, when you're describing yourself, it makes me think of what i read about musk today. no, iwasn�*t, you know, going out to the public and insulting the president of the united states or something like that. imean... yeah. but in the sense of driving a company hard, pushing staff, a huge sense of mission and purpose, i mean, that's part of what he's about. well, i didn't run, you know, three companies at a time. so you could say he's more talented than i was. he might say that. i believed in magic of software and, you know, i was focused on that. i wasn't making comments on politicians and every trend of the day, you know? hard work, we have that in common. otherwise, you know, there's some differences. there are some differences, and i'm not suggesting for a moment you have any time on your hands these days, but if he asked you to come in and say, chair the board of twitter, would you say to him, take him aside and say, "elon, maybe spend less time insulting the american president, "maybe run one company instead of three or several?" i'm sure he has people telling him that, and i'm sure he's decided to ignore them! the nice thing about my relationship with steve is we got to be friends and reflect on the amazing lives we have had. he is very different than me. he had an instinct for design and a sort of picking is about design that is not one of my skills. about design that is not one of m skills. . ., ., ., my skills. the admiration for him is very — my skills. the admiration for him is very clear _ my skills. the admiration for him is very clear and - my skills. the admiration for him is very clear and the - him is very clear and the complexity of your relationship is interesting and ifind it astonishing what they said about you in his authorised biography in 2011 where he about you in his authorised biography in 2011where he said bill is basically unimaginative, he has never invented anything which is why i think he is more comfortable now in philanthropy than technology, he shamelessly ripped off other people's ideas. why do you think he was a personal and rude about it? steve was somebody who was very tough on himself and often, he thought 0k, tough on himself and often, he thought ok, this time he's to fail. his ability to insult people was an impressive skill but you know, he is also quoted as saying i was super inventive and... �* , . as saying i was super inventive and... . and... it's a selective quotation. _ and... it's a selective quotation. not - and... it's a selective| quotation. not totally consistent. _ quotation. not totally consistent. but - quotation. not totally consistent. but yeah, i quotation. not totally i consistent. but yeah, he quotation. not totally - consistent. but yeah, he could be tough. consistent. but yeah, he could be tough-— consistent. but yeah, he could betou:h. ~ ., , ., be tough. musk says he wants to use technology _ be tough. musk says he wants to use technology to _ be tough. musk says he wants to use technology to liberate - use technology to liberate humanity and a lot of people say our relationship with technology is going badly wrong so do you ever worry that what you did help to unleash technologies that helped humanity in the short—term but in the could set us back? humanity in the short-term but in the could set us back?- in the could set us back? well, most of the — in the could set us back? well, most of the things _ in the could set us back? well, most of the things that - most of the things that microsoft did specifically, like let you have a nice word processor, you know, nobody blames microsoft if you write a nasty note or some evil plan using that world processor —— word. now we are getting into how people communicate and thought of replacing media with a lot of these digital forums and there have, you know, it is the downside of people being ill informed and sort of sharing lies with each other has caught me a bit by surprise. i do think on balance, it's still all very positive, but, you know, other people get to judge that and set the rules. you know, would we be better off if you had no social media? some people definitely feel that way. thejudgement on how you stop those digital forms from being toxic and driving, sort of, the worst of us as opposed to enlightening us — which, as we were creating all these things, you know, we saw the opportunity to make education better and learn — the fact that people are pushing conspiracy theories, that's a bit of a surprise to me. and, you know, can we be creative to get rid of or at least minimise that bad stuff? it's an open question. yeah, because we're having a civilised conversation and a lot of people would say one of the biggest lessons from social media is it's made having civilised conversation much, much harder. and do you worry that we are seeing a kind of really severe toxification, a decline in the public domain, where being able to disagree respectfully is getting very, very hard? that would be very bad. is it happening? the degree of political polarisation in the united states — and we see that somewhat outside the united states — is higher than it's ever been in my lifetime, and it scares me. i don't blame digital media for all of that but it does seem to magnify it — that, you know, some, you know, qanon idea — i mean, literally, there's people elected who believe in these qanon conspiracy theories, so, erm, i hope that smart young people can take and shape these digital forums to be more constructive and get rid of the negative things. you know, i think the next generation is always given some great breakthroughs and some challenges that come with those breakthroughs and i don't think my generation, you know, took care of the downside of digital media. and so, i hope that gets solved because what that's done to political discourse, i think, has made it even somewhat worse than it would be without it. well, since we've gone there, we're talking about conspiracies, about qanon and people who get elected off the back of it — do you mind just telling the story of when you first met donald trump? you know, i don't really understand him. i'm always going to meet on behalf of our foundation with the us president. you know, the us president controls the biggest aid budget in the world and so, one of the things i went into that meeting saying was, "hey, let's, during "your term as president, you know, find a cure for hiv. "let's pick some high—impact science goals for the world." none of that ever came to pass, but i don't feel bad that i tried. what do you make of the fact that he's running for president again? um... you know, i hope that we can move on to new republican candidates who are more forward—looking, more believing in election integrity. but my prediction on politics are not uniquely good. my understanding of science and picking scientists and, you know, funding things in that realm, i have experience. but in politics, i never expected him to be elected, so i'm disqualified for any predictions related to him. ijust wonder what went through your mind when you saw those pictures of rioters in washington storming the capitol building? i mean, did you think that you'd see that in your lifetime? no. it's deeply troubling that what you think of in sort of tinpot democracies is happening in what is supposed to be the exemplar of democracy. when we had the first pandemic in a century, he was the guy running america and i think it'd be fair to say that his leadership was not always as committed to the best sciences as you have been. the us performance, which the executive branch has to take responsibility for, was quite disappointing. now, the us did a few things right, including funding a lot of the vaccine work. you know, the us government funded the most, our foundation also funded a lot, but other than that, the us did not set a good example. in 1995, bill gates reached number one on the world's rich list and spent much of the following 20 years occupying the top spot. wealth is relative. what do you consider to be rich? i think if there's one person in the world i want to ask that, it's you. well, certainly not having to worry about, "can i pay my kids tuition? "can i, you know, afford a nice trip?" you know, that is an incredible luxury. so, i guess if you have enough for your family's consumption at quite a comfortable level, you know, that's rare in the world, and you ought to think of that as a huge privilege. when i told people i was interviewing bill gates, i was amazed by the question that they all seemed collectively to want me to ask you, and i'm going to ask you — it's a nice question. chuckles. the question is, are you frugal? um, you know, i don't have a gigantic closet. i don't, you know, wearjewellery. you make me feel very self—conscious. but most of this is fake. like when i'm unwrapping a present, i don't take the wrapping and, you know, fold it up and use it again. you know, if i use a paper bag, i — my grandmother never threw a paper bag in her life or any string on a package, so, by her standards, i'm crazy. i just take the bag and i put it in the garbage. in 1994, you were asked by the new yorker if you worried that wealth would corrupt you. and you said something very interesting. you said, "absolutely. hey, being in the spot..." "hey, being in the spot..." this is me doing my bill gates impression. you said "absolutely. "hey, being in the spotlight is a corrupting thing. "being successful is a corrupting thing. "having lots of money is a corrupting thing. "these are very dangerous things to be guarded "against carefully and i think that's very, very hard to do." have you been corrupted? in the sense that if my 30—year—old self saw that, you know, i take vacations, erm, i, uh, go to the olympics... tsk, tsk. you know... that's very irresponsible of you. a plane that i travel in, i think the 30—year—old would think, "wow, you really have gone soft. you sold out. "you take too much time off and you're allowing yourself, "as part of your travelling all over the world, "to do it in a simple way". um, you know, i try to keep my intellectual integrity of, "0k, do i really understand stuff?" for example, is the money and the team we've built to go after these diseases, are they the best they possibly can be? so, i still think i'm pretty demanding and really try to understand in a deep way. do you feel guilty about being rich? as long as i take the money and make sure it goes back to society in a highly impactful way, like eradicating polio, eventually eradicating malaria, saving children's lives, figuring out malnutrition to get rid of most of that, you know, then i will feel like, "ok, i had a responsibility to spend this money well". but that sounds to me like what you're saying, you partly give so much money away because you do want to not feel guilty because if you didn't give it away, you would feel guilty. 0h, certainly if i spent it on myself, i should feel guilty — and i would. i mean, whatam i going to have, 1,000 people fanning me, you know, as i walk down the street? wow! yeah, that would not be very.... or the world's greatest cheeseburger, which, i mean... i eat the world's greatest cheeseburger. money can't buy you a better cheeseburger. i really want to talk to you about this. what would go in the world's greatest cheeseburger? just, you know...a mcdonald's burger. i don't think if you stuck gold inside, it would taste better. passing up the opportunity to eat gold—plated food has allowed bill gates to pledge $7 billion to support african institutions fight hunger, disease, gender inequality, and poverty. and being in kenya allows him to assess whether his money is being put to good use. so the kathonzweni health centre — why this place? most health care in africa is done at a place like this. this is where the vaccinations and all the advice... why does it matter to you to actually be here? cos, you know, you could just look at this stuff on zoom, not a zoom, microsoft teams. why is that not how you operate? why do you want to actually be here and feel it? i don't think you can understand this remotely. you know, we...our foundation is very involved in improving these health care systems, and it, you know, makes a huge difference in the number of children that die, the number of children who grow up with the full physical development. you know, when we first got going, in africa, over 20% of kids would die before the age of five. worldwide, it was about 10%. that's in the year 2000. that's been cut in half. so, you know, the world level�*s about 5% and the african level�*s about 10%. and you want to half it again? yep. and i've got this notion that bill gates doesn't leave a place like this without an action plan for what comes next. so what does come next? well, i get to see the president and talk about how they can... ruto. yeah. who's newly elected and talk about, 0k, where are they doing a good job, you know, where are they falling short? you know, and fortunately, the foundation is able to collaborate with a lot of the leaders and, you know, let them know what we've learned from other countries and where they can improve their health care system. so the power�*s pretty reliable here? yes. how much are you giving away now? 0h, about 30 billion. about 30 billion a year. about 30 billion. money buys you power. it's given you extraordinary power. a lot of people would say that the nature of the power it's given you, which you now use philanthropically, is undemocratic, because nobody voted for you. what do you say to that charge? i think spending money on malaria, reducing malaria deaths is a good thing. so when we did ourfirst big grant, we became the biggest malaria funders, or diarrhoea, or pneumonia or sickle cell or hiv. you know, other than a few categories, where the us government spends more than we do, we're the largest funder on every single one of those things. so, yes, somebody can disagree with the choices i've made. you know, democratic processes don't always let you do the most innovative work. so if you want to do risk, like curing sickle cell or curing hiv, governments are too conservative. so i do think there's some projects that philanthropy is good at doing better than governments. well, let me channel some of your critics. they would say in that very impressive answer from bill gates, he's given a huge amount of money to polio. he's given a huge amount of money to malaria. but why should bill gates decide where that money goes? who made you god? i'm not god. i mean, as a percentage of the world economy, you know, i'm kind of rounding there, but, yes, i decided that the death of children, when i read that diarrhoea was killing a half million children and that the vaccine to stop those deaths was being given to the rich kids, but not to the poor kids, i said, "wow, now i know the area of inequity "most of my money will go on." i'm pleased to see you say you're not god, but what do you make of this criticism that some philanthropists, that bill gates, fancies themselves as a white saviour? what does that mean? all of us should work together to save children's lives. erm... so... you know, i'm not a religious saviour. my thing isjust, you know, health, staying alive. i think it's admirable that you do interviews where you deal with some of that criticism head on. there have been controversies about your philanthropy, which have achieved extraordinary things. i want to address one of them head on so that we can move on. one of the many people that you've met through philanthropy isjeffrey epstein, and you've said many times that you regret meeting him. what i really want to know is why. well, anything that gave, you know, as people, including myself, learn more about his behaviour, anything that gave him credibility, you know, is kind of shameful. erm, he spent a lot of time with a lot of rich people who he, you know, said to me he would get them to give lots of money to global health. erm, so i chose to have several dinners with him along those lines, but, you know, nothing actually came of it. i eventually broke off the relationship, but in retrospect, i would have been much smarter never to even talk to him at all. what was he like? you know, i've only met him a few times, so it's not like i'm some expert. there are people who actually knew him. erm... do you worry that any connection with him among the thousands of relationships that you've nurtured through your philanthropy, can overshadow the good work you do? well, it's tough. everyone you meet, you know, and you say, "ok, i'll go to dinner." how careful should you be? i'm certainly more careful now than back when i did that. that's a long time ago. so you've changed your behaviour and who you meet after that experience? i'll do a little more due diligence. i may make a mistake again. i mean, you know, i'm out in the world, and i'm not trying to be a recluse. you know, i've met with people from russia and people from china who it may turn out later, or even from america, 0k, but, you know, it might be more likely that some of the wealthy people i meet from those countries will later be, you know, accused of some bad behaviour. not content with improving public health, bill gates feels his fortune can help to solve climate change, too. he's been investing heavily in green technologies and using his influence to encourage nations to achieve net zero emissions by 2050. what's your central message to government about what they need to do to accelerate the path to what some people call net zero? well, what the rich countries owe to the entire world is that they need to get their emissions down to zero as fast as they can. but that's not enough, because they, you know, they have so many... much in the way of resources. most issues in government on management issues in health and education system. they are not these tough 0k, what you think about type problems? i don't have to be — — they don't have to be very divisive things but i don't give gigantic amounts. i don't give gigantic amounts. i give hundreds of thousands of dollars to people problem—solving and they tend to be centrist and can be from both parties. to be centrist and can be from both parties-_ both parties. what the rich countries _ both parties. what the rich countries need _ both parties. what the rich countries need to - both parties. what the rich countries need to do - both parties. what the rich countries need to do is - both parties. what the rich | countries need to do is they need to get there emissions down to zero because they had so much on the way of resources.— so much on the way of resources. , ., ,., ., resources. they also need to invent new — resources. they also need to invent new approaches. - so that the cost of being green, the cost of not having emissions in all areas gets down to be zero. so a new way of making cement or steel, you know, electric passenger cars, that's all on the rich countries. and they've got to solve it, so they can turn to the middle income countries and say, "ok, you know..." india being a good example. "here's how you make steel. here's how you make cement." for the low income countries, as you get rich, you're much more resilient against climate disasters. and so improving that those economies through health, education, agriculture is how...what we owe to the low income countries. you've written about and you've spoken at length about how climate change is a moral issue as well as a political one. do rich countries owe reparations to poor countries for historic climate change? well, the rich countries have done the bulk of emissions, and the countries near the equator are suffering the most. and so, yes, the rich countries should be more generous. you actually mentioned your use of a private jet. let me put it to you directly, what do you say to the charge that if you are a climate change campaigner, but you also travel around the world on a private jet, you're a hypocrite. well, i... ..i by the gold standard of funding, climeworks, to do direct air capture that far exceeds my family's carbon footprint. and i spend billions of dollars on climate innovation. so, you know, should i stay at home and not come to kenya and learn about farming and malaria? anyway, i mean, i'm comfortable with the idea that not only am i not part of the problem by paying for the offsets, but also through the billions that my breakthrough energy group is spending, that i'm part of the solution. for decades now, a lot of people have seen you as the face of american capitalism. and there are some critics who say that capitalism in its very nature, no pun intended, depends on inequality and the destruction of the planet. is that fair? it certainly...as you incent people to invent things, you'll give them an opportunity... ..to make money from those things. so, societies that have tried to get rid of that, like north korea or, you know, during the cultural revolution in china, it's an experiment that's been run. and if people prefer to be in that situation, you know, great. so is capitalism the worst form of arranging our societies, except for all the others that have been tried? basically, i mean, yes, we could tax the rich more. yes, more ought to go into climate mitigation and climate adaptation. but the idea that, you know, "0h, things were better 200 years ago", you know, where 30% of kids died before the age of five, you know, i don't buy that. just saying that, "oh, we're going to give up capitalism." what are they saying? you know, and do they really want to go backwards? i think we can use a form of capitalism and continue to get its benefits while solving climate change. as well as his work as a tech entrepreneur and philanthropist, bill gates has become famous for his eerie ability to predict the future, both on his pet subjects of tech... there'll be digital keys and digital money and digital credit cards, so almost everything that you have in your wallet today will be accessible on this little device. ..and global health... if anything kills over 10 million people in the next few decades, it's most likely to be a highly infectious virus rather than a war. ..inspiring reverence for his foresight as well as an overwhelming amount of suspicion. your warnings about the pandemic were eerily prescient. what is the big future threat facing humanity that we're not thinking about enough but should? well, fortunately, we're starting to think enough about climate change, and so i'd probably put bioterror, which is a really awful... bioterror and pandemics are sort of the same. bioterror is a little harder to defend against, because whoever�*s trying to do it is consciously understand your defence system so they can be trying to design around them. but everything you do for pandemics is extremely useful for bio—terrorism, and we're not as activated on being ready for that as i think we should be. everything we're talking about involves human reason and rationality, and yet we started off with you mentioning briefly conspiracy theories. and i'm struck in researching this interview by a very profound irony, which is that you want to apply rationality and reason to as much of human affairs as you can, and yet you might be the subject of more irrational conspiracy theories than anybody alive today. why do you think that is? i did not expect that. but in a during the pandemic, there were, you know, tens of millions of messages about, that i intentionally caused it or i'm tracking people, which it's true i'm involved with vaccines, but i'm involved with vaccines to save lives. you know, i guess people are looking for the bogeyman behind the curtain. the oversimplistic explanation that its malevolence is a lot easier to understand than biology. but why are you an easy target? what is it about you? i think in this case, because of my work on vaccines and saying, "ok, you know, is he making money off of vaccines?", which, of course, i'm not. i spend billions on vaccines. you know, do vaccines kill children? no, vaccines have saved tens of millions of children. you know, elon's got more money than i have, but, you know, on the pandemic, he wasn't there funding vaccine factories, nor was he there predicting that it would happen. and so, you know, some people say, "hey, he felt bad, his prediction didn't come true. "so he, you know, had to start the pandemic. "otherwise, he would have lost credibility." and just on elon, would you encourage him tojoin your club of mega philanthropists — you, warren buffett, jeff bezos, people who give away most of their wealth? yeah, i think someday he'll be a great philanthropist. obviously, you know, things like tesla are having positive impact, even without being a form of philanthropy. but at the end of the day, i don't think he'll — other than going to mars a few times, which might cost a little bit — i don't think he'll want to spend it on himself. so, yeah, someday, ithink he willjoin the rank of philanthropists using his ingenuity. he's going to mars, whether funded by him or others. is that a good use of money? uh... not in my view, but, uh... cos there's more pressing things to do on earth? definitely, and it's actually quite expensive to go to mars. have you looked into it? have you got someone to do a little breakdown... you know, you can buy measles vaccines and save lives for $1,000 per life saved and so, itjust kind of grounds you, as in don't go to — don't go to mars. i'm not going to go through all the conspiracies with you but the conspiracies with you but the notion that you have tried to implant chips in people's brains that bill can control us. if that were possible i feel like you would not make is it even possible? ha. feel like you would not make is it even possible?— it even possible? no. we don't know how _ it even possible? no. we don't know how to — it even possible? no. we don't know how to take _ it even possible? no. we don't know how to take a _ it even possible? no. we don't know how to take a battery - it even possible? no. we don't| know how to take a battery and stick it into the needle and have a transmitter. they say i want to know where people are but why would i want to know? why would you want to know? you know. as it — why would you want to know? you know. as it is _ why would you want to know? 7m. know, as it is people carry a ceuphone know, as it is people carry a cellphone around which, you know, basically does track their location, so, you know, no, i didn't mean to try to do that ina no, i didn't mean to try to do that in a vaccine. gates's philanthropy is a joint project with his former wife, melinda. the pair met at microsoft in 1987, married in 1994 and announced their divorce in 2021, amid rumours of historic affairs and inappropriate emails to female members of staff at microsoft. you got divorced fairly recently. you said in may you were still grieving over melinda, and that really struck me because i've spent a lot of this year thinking about grief and grieving. are you still grieving? well, melinda's an incredible person, so i'm lucky that i knew her, that we were married. i'm lucky that she still works at the foundation. i'm lucky that we parent our kids — although, they're old enough not to need quite as much at this point. um, and so, yeah, both — i think there's some regrets, but, you know, we're moving forward in a very positive way. we have this phrase "empty nest syndrome" — it must be very strange when your kids grow up and leave the house. do you get lonely? you know, i prepared myself very well, thinking, you know, "ok, when the kids are gone, "i won't get much time with them". partly because of, you know, digital connection — you know, i can do video conferences with the kids. you know, my kids are all learning about medicine, they understand the modern world, so they can tell me about things. so, because i set my expectation low, i'm always impressed how much time the kids are willing to give me. what's the most important thing you've learned from your kids? well, you have a certain immortality through your kids that, you know, even things you do that won't have an impact during your lifetime, you want them to have a good life. and so, they, you know, they challenge the work i do. they challenge my thinking. you know, young people are kind of smart in a different way. old people are kind of wise. and there's some good creative tension there. i feel i may have unfairly traduced you as hyper rational because you are something of a romantic and some people will be fascinated to know that on the night before your marriage to melinda, you got willie nelson to come along and play on a beach in hawaii. are you a romantic? can you see yourself falling in love again? sure. would you like that? yeah, i'm — i'm nota robot! you're not a robot. you're still involved in microsoft but you stepped down from the board in 2020. now, us publications suggested that the board spoke to you about inappropriate emails to female members of staff and that separately, you had an affair some years ago, which you've acknowledged. i know you won't want to reopen those issues or speak about particulars, but you've said sorry about the affair. who are you sorry to? well, you're going back, you know... years. ..more than 20 years ago. and so, you know, i don't think its relevant at this point. but you said you were sorry — i'm interested in why and to whom. is it about the impact on yourfamily now? the — you know, i — that's between me and my family and from a long, long time ago. 0k. let's turn to the future. how profoundly do you think artificial intelligence will transform our species? you know, pretty dramatically. um, we're at the early stage and, you know, nobody�*s been perfect about predicting these things. but the fact that it will help us look into medical and scientific questions will give us much higher productivity. you're going to turn 70 in three years — that's a big milestone for some people. how do you feel about it? and how do you feel about your remaining time on earth and optimising those years? you know, it's strange to be an old person. i don't think of myself that way. you know, ifeel young but, you know, i have limited time. you know, my life is two thirds done and, you know, can i get malaria eradication done? i think so. you've described yourself as more intense than other people, though you said not more intense than stevejobs. chuckles. you have this remarkable ability to read, to analyse, retain information. greta thunberg credits her asperger�*s as her special power. what's your special power? you know, i think i'm a student, i'm curious. uh, you know, defining whether somebody is on the asperger�*s spectrum is a pretty vague thing, but my ability to concentrate, uh, is very high. uh, and when i was young, it was weird, weirdly high, you know, to memorise things and, you know, try out my thinking, you know, which made science and maths super interesting. and then, i discovered software and was able to throw all my energy into that. so, i'm a good student, i think. do you have an unusual ability to focus on the task in hand? yes. i've got some quick—fire questions for you. maximum ten words, minimum one. 0k? these are nice. all right. you ready? i think you're going to enjoy these. what time do you wake up in the morning? just before my first meeting. like my first meetings at 8:00, i get up at 7:45. i like to — i stay up late. i'm a night person. that's not ten words. hang on a second. hang on a second. if you've got a meeting at 8:00, surely, it takes more than 15 minutes to get from bed to the meeting? if it's a virtual meeting, i literally get up 15 minutes before the virtual meeting. you don't want to have a little coffee, shower, shave? hey, i can get a lot done in 15 minutes. chuckles. what social media platform are you most active on? none. i mean, i publish things but i don't spend much time browsing. your greatest hero, living or dead? you know, my dad, warren buffett. who's a person from history you'd most like to meet? um, maybe da vinci. probably da vinci. do you believe in god? somewhat. what do you fear most? well, that's hard to say. you know, not being a good friend, i guess. if you had your time again, what would you do differently? i don't think i would change much. i'd be afraid it wouldn't come out as well as it did this time. so, you know, trying to second guess myself... you know, obviously, i've mellowed over time and i've seen, you know, decisions i made that didn't work out, but i wouldn't — i wouldn't want to try again because it's been an amazing life. bill gates. thank you. a real pleasure to talk to you. yeah, no. thank you so much. hello. the second half of the weekend is set to be the brighter half of the weekend. after a saturday that brought mainly grey skies overhead, sunday promises more in the way of sunshine but a slightly chillier feel. high pressure building strongly across the uk, keeping the vast majority dry with those lengthy sunny spells. this cold front has been slipping southwards and that's been introducing colder air, so quite a few places starting sunday morning around freezing. a little bit milder down towards the south of england, where we're closest to this area of cloud first thing, but that will be clearing away quickly and then, as you can see, there will be lengthy spells of sunshine. one thing you can't really see clearly here is some high cloud that's likely to stream in across parts of northern ireland, scotland, and northern england. that could turn the sunshine hazy at times but it shouldn't spoil things too much. temperatures a little down on where they have been — 7—10 celsius — but with the brighter skies overhead, i think it will still feel fairly pleasant for the time of year. now, through sunday night, this area of high pressure tends to drift a little further south—eastwards. under the centre of the high with light winds, could see one or two fog patches but around the edge of the high will be bringing more cloud into northern ireland and scotland, hence, it will be a little milder here to start monday morning. the coldest weather down across england and wales with a touch of frost and some fog patches towards the south—east corner, but any fog should clear pretty quickly and then, plenty of sunshine across england and wales. some bright skies, too, across the east of scotland. the western side of scotland and northern ireland tending to see a little more in the way of cloud, maybe the odd spot of drizzle, a slightly stronger breeze. temperatures between seven and ten degrees. now, as we get into tuesday, we will see a weak weather front sitting somewhere across the centre of the uk. a little bit of patchy rain with that. to the north of it, some sunshine, to the south of it, could be some quite widespread fog on tuesday morning which will tend to lift and clear to give some spells of sunshine. temperatures between six and ten degrees. now, as we head deeper into the week, high pressure holds on close to the south and the east of the uk but this frontal system pushing in from the north—west may well bring some outbreaks of rain and it will also bring strong winds at times in the north of scotland through the middle part of the week. further south, things stay calmer, some spells of sunshine, but with some patchy fog. welcome to bbc news. i'm lucy grey. our top stories: shot out of the sky. the us military targets the chinese balloon that had been floating in american airspace. they successfully took it down, and i want to compliment our aviators who did it. three airports were shut and the airspace was closed — it came down off the us east coast. a peace mission to south sudan. the pope makes an unprecedented visit, alongside the leaders of the church of england and church of scotland. we'll tell you about the bbc journalist trying to make amends for her own family's connection to slavery.