with pressure _ your whatsapp messages on lockdown? with pressure on— your whatsapp messages on lockdown? with pressure on staff, _ your whatsapp messages on lockdown? with pressure on staff, the _ your whatsapp messages on lockdown? with pressure on staff, the state - your whatsapp messages on lockdown? with pressure on staff, the state of- with pressure on staff, the state of some wards and strikes, keir starmer claimed the nhs wouldn't survive another tory government. at claimed the nhs wouldn't survive another tory government.- claimed the nhs wouldn't survive another tory government. at the next government. — another tory government. at the next government. the _ another tory government. at the next government, the nhs _ another tory government. at the next government, the nhs is _ another tory government. at the next government, the nhs is on _ another tory government. at the next government, the nhs is on the - another tory government. at the next government, the nhs is on the line. | government, the nhs is on the line. yet when it comes to the crunch, our labour�*s plans really that different at all? so we have one big question this morning, are our politicians really getting to grips with the nhs? we'll ask the man who should be able to tell us — the health secretary, steve barclay. when will russia start telling the truth about about what's happening in ukraine? with warnings of a new offensive, russia's ambassador talks of escalation. it's a big idealistic mistake to think that ukraine may prevail. russia is 16 times bigger than ukraine. we have enormous resources and we can... it hasn'tjust started yet to act very seriously. and the man who says labour can get the long—term sick back to work, jonathan ashworth joins us too. and with itv in meltdown — we'll talk to the former culture secretary, and now tv presenter, nadine dorries. with me at the panel — one of vladimir putin's arch—critics, bill browder. vivek trivandi, who'll lead junior doctors out on strike, from the british medical association. and as the chancellor suggests a recession might be worth it to get inflation down, the boss of one of the country's leading busines groups — shevaun havilland — from the british chambers of commerce. morning, morning — i hope you have got the coffee on, because there's so much we want to talk to you about this morning. the nhs in a few minutes but first, let's look at the front pages. and the fall out from phillip schofield admitting an affair with a younger colleague at itv�*s this morning is on the front pages of the mail on sunday and the sun on sunday. holly willoughby saying she was lied to. bbc is leading on "kyiv hit by massive attack " by russian drones". we will talk about ukraine later in the show. the independent has "mps who claimed hundreds of pounds in driving expenses". and the telegraph has "sunak ask stores to cap basic food price." welcome to all of you this morning. let's go straight to that, a conservative government trying to cap food prices, would that work? let's think about what businesses have faced over the last year—and—a—half. we estimate probably 20—25% input inflation and 10% output inflation so they are absorbing a huge amount of cost into their bottom line. supermarkets working on very, very tight margins. so it's not like anyone is profiteering. it is great to see them getting around the table with government to find new ways we can help consumers, that is a good thing. obviously we wait to see the detail. we have to bear in mind that there are smaller retailers for whom this will be even harder from a margin point of view, so we have to keep them in mind.— keep them in mind. smaller businesses _ keep them in mind. smaller businesses might _ keep them in mind. smaller businesses might get - keep them in mind. smaller. businesses might get squeezed keep them in mind. smaller- businesses might get squeezed out of big businesses could squeeze prices further? j~:: , , big businesses could squeeze prices further? kin , , ., big businesses could squeeze prices further? j~:: , , , ., ., further? 80% is small and medium size, slightly _ further? 8096 is small and medium size, slightly different _ further? 8096 is small and medium size, slightly different in _ further? 8096 is small and medium size, slightly different in the - size, slightly different in the retail sector which has slightly bigger businesses. we need to make sure they are all taken into account. sure they are all taken into account-— sure they are all taken into account. �* , , h, sure they are all taken into account. 3 , ., , account. it's interesting, so many thins account. it's interesting, so many things going _ account. it's interesting, so many things going on — account. it's interesting, so many things going on i _ account. it's interesting, so many things going on i really _ account. it's interesting, so many things going on i really connected at the moment. the information shevaun was talking about is a large part due to what is happening in ukraine, the conflict there. it feels like a big moment is coming potentially. feels like a big moment is coming otentiall . ~ ., feels like a big moment is coming potentially-— potentially. ukraine talking about escalation. here _ potentially. ukraine talking about escalation. here we _ potentially. ukraine talking about escalation. here we are, - potentially. ukraine talking about escalation. here we are, there i potentially. ukraine talking about escalation. here we are, there is| escalation. here we are, there is going _ escalation. here we are, there is going to — escalation. here we are, there is going to he — escalation. here we are, there is going to be the spring offensive. it hasn't _ going to be the spring offensive. it hasn't happened yet because they are waiting _ hasn't happened yet because they are waiting for— hasn't happened yet because they are waiting for their weapons to come in. ukrainians have been supplied with an _ in. ukrainians have been supplied with an enormous amount of tanks and artillery— with an enormous amount of tanks and artillery and _ with an enormous amount of tanks and artillery and so on. and when it happens. — artillery and so on. and when it happens. i_ artillery and so on. and when it happens, i think it will be a big deal _ happens, i think it will be a big deal i— happens, i think it will be a big deal. i think that russia really is going _ deal. i think that russia really is going to — deal. i think that russia really is going to be on the back foot and that is— going to be on the back foot and that is what we are all kind of counting _ that is what we are all kind of counting the moments for. a bit later in the _ counting the moments for. a bit later in the programme - counting the moments for. a bit later in the programme we - counting the moments for. 3 it later in the programme we will hear from the russian ambassador on what is going on in their regime and also about political prisoners that vladimir putin has locked up. i know you have been working hard on that as well of inflation is one of the things that has put such pressure on pay packets. junior doctors are locked in a dispute with the government. what would you want to from steve barclay? i government. what would you want to from steve barclay?— from steve barclay? i would want to ut from steve barclay? i would want to put forward — from steve barclay? i would want to put forward to _ from steve barclay? i would want to put forward to him _ from steve barclay? i would want to put forward to him that _ from steve barclay? i would want to put forward to him that despite - put forward to him that despite weeks — put forward to him that despite weeks of— put forward to him that despite weeks of intensive _ put forward to him that despite i weeks of intensive negotiations, does _ weeks of intensive negotiations, does he — weeks of intensive negotiations, does he understand _ weeks of intensive negotiations, does he understand why- weeks of intensive negotiations, does he understand why the - weeks of intensive negotiations, does he understand why the 5%| weeks of intensive negotiations, i does he understand why the 5% pay uplift _ does he understand why the 5% pay uplift offered — does he understand why the 5% pay uplift offered to _ does he understand why the 5% pay uplift offered to doctors _ does he understand why the 5% pay uplift offered to doctors would - uplift offered to doctors would frustrate — uplift offered to doctors would frustrate doctors _ uplift offered to doctors would frustrate doctors and - uplift offered to doctors would frustrate doctors and a - uplift offered to doctors would - frustrate doctors and a background of a more — frustrate doctors and a background of a more than _ frustrate doctors and a background of a more than 26% _ frustrate doctors and a background of a more than 26% real— frustrate doctors and a background of a more than 26% real terms - frustrate doctors and a background of a more than 26% real terms payi of a more than 26% real terms pay cut of a more than 26% real terms pay out over— of a more than 26% real terms pay out over the — of a more than 26% real terms pay cut over the last _ of a more than 26% real terms pay cut over the last 15— of a more than 26% real terms pay cut over the last 15 years, - of a more than 26% real terms pay cut over the last 15 years, which i cut over the last 15 years, which doesn't — cut over the last 15 years, which doesn't even _ cut over the last 15 years, which doesn't even account _ cut over the last 15 years, which doesn't even account for- cut over the last 15 years, which doesn't even account for their . cut over the last 15 years, which - doesn't even account for their most recent— doesn't even account for their most recent financial _ doesn't even account for their most recent financial year. _ doesn't even account for their most recent financial year. what - doesn't even account for their most recent financial year. what would . doesn't even account for their mosti recent financial year. what would he plan to _ recent financial year. what would he plan to do _ recent financial year. what would he plan to do to — recent financial year. what would he plan to do to address _ recent financial year. what would he plan to do to address this, - recent financial year. what would he plan to do to address this, this - plan to do to address this, this undervaluing _ plan to do to address this, this undervaluing of— plan to do to address this, this undervaluing of nhs— plan to do to address this, this undervaluing of nhs staff, - plan to do to address this, this - undervaluing of nhs staff, affecting morale? _ undervaluing of nhs staff, affecting morale? hie — undervaluing of nhs staff, affecting morale? ~ , ., ., ., , morale? we will put that to him as well as other _ morale? we will put that to him as well as other subjects. _ morale? we will put that to him as well as other subjects. all - morale? we will put that to him as well as other subjects. all three i of you, thank you. we have already been hearing from you in the last couple of days about your experiences of the nhs. you do keep getting in touch with us. you can e—mail or use the hashtag. or if you are one of those people who likes to look at two screens at the same time, you can follow on the live page, the addresses there for you. the nhs a lwa ys always the subject of political battles and bust ups. in the last week we have had both parties claiming they would be the ones to shake things up. wes streeting from labour was pushing his plans last week. the health secretary is in the red chair now. welcome to come steve barclay. first we can look at this, we have some pictures here. king's lynn hospital in norfolk where they are using things to prop up the row. st helier hospital in sutton where they have buckets with leaks coming down. we heard of hundreds of sewage leaks into hospitals into hospitals in england in the last few days. you have been in charge for 13 years, how have your letter get this bad? we announced on thursday over 20 billion of investment into our new hospitals programme, including places like king's lynn. a full rebuild of those hospitals, that is what nhs leaders asked us to do. the biggest ever investment into the nhs. so we are responding to the challenges of those hospitals. they do need to be replaced and replaced by 2030 and that is exactly what we are doing and we have committed 240 new hospitals by 2030. that is the biggest capital investment the nhs will have seen and we set out the details of that in the house on thursday. details of that in the house on thursday-_ details of that in the house on thursda . ., ., , ., thursday. you have there repeated the claim that _ thursday. you have there repeated the claim that the _ thursday. you have there repeated the claim that the government i thursday. you have there repeated the claim that the government is i the claim that the government is building 40 new hospitals. before we do anything else, ijust want building 40 new hospitals. before we do anything else, i just want you building 40 new hospitals. before we do anything else, ijust want you to be completely straight with viewers. there are not 40 brand—new hospitals built because that description includes new wings for some hospitals, refurbishments for others. it does include some new hospitals but let's be completely honest, steve barclay, i'm sure you're a politician who likes people to believe everything they say, you're not building 40 brand—new hospitals, are you? it’s you're not building 40 brand-new hospitals, are you?— hospitals, are you? it's in line with the announcement i hospitals, are you? it's in line with the announcement made| hospitals, are you? it's in line l with the announcement made in hospitals, are you? it's in line - with the announcement made in 2020. the manifesto said 40 new hospitals, that's what we committed to in the house on thursday. over £20 billion on investment to do so for you are right, places like king's lynn, which are propped up, i've been to visit it and seen first—hand the challenges there and it's a hugely positive message for nhs staff, patients and the wider population for areas like king's lynn, berries and edmonton...— for areas like king's lynn, berries and edmonton... hang on, before we move on, and edmonton... hang on, before we move on. i— and edmonton... hang on, before we move on. i really _ and edmonton... hang on, before we move on, i really want _ and edmonton... hang on, before we move on, i really want you _ and edmonton... hang on, before we move on, i really want you to - and edmonton... hang on, before we move on, i really want you to be i move on, i really want you to be straight about this because for a normal person, building a new wing or maybe refurbishing part of a hospital, that is not a brand—new hospital. if you save up and get a new conservatory on the back of your house, you don't have a new house. so can you be honest with people, you're not building 40 brand—new hospitals? you're not building 40 brand-new hositals? ., ,. , hospitals? some of the schemes include for— hospitals? some of the schemes include for example _ hospitals? some of the schemes include for example a _ hospitals? some of the schemes include for example a hospital. hospitals? some of the schemes i include for example a hospital being gutted and fully refurbished. if i look at charing cross for example, that's exactly what we will be doing and we will be starting work to decamp to some of the facilities and then refurbish. there are a range of things within the scheme... its a ranue things within the scheme... its a ranae of things within the scheme... its a range of things _ things within the scheme... its a range of things but _ things within the scheme... its a range of things but not - things within the scheme... its a range of things but not 40 new hospitals. it’s range of things but not 40 new hositals. �* , . range of things but not 40 new hositals. �*, ., ., hospitals. it's a debate had in 2020. hospitals. it's a debate had in 2020- we _ hospitals. it's a debate had in 2020. we are _ hospitals. it's a debate had in 2020. we are sticking - hospitals. it's a debate had in 2020. we are sticking with i hospitals. it's a debate had in i 2020. we are sticking with those schemes but exaggerating, as you pointed to, accelerating those schemes which include five brand—new hospitals, which where the additional schemes the nhs... this additional schemes the nhs. .. this is important _ additional schemes the nhs... this is important because do you believe in being really straight with our audience? you do, right. you have said there is a range of things and you havejust said there is a range of things and you have just admitted said there is a range of things and you havejust admitted it said there is a range of things and you have just admitted it is a range. so why keep repeating that you are building 40 brand—new hospitals? you are not, that is spin with a capital s. if it hospitals? you are not, that is spin with a capital s.— with a capital s. if it is a new win , with a capital s. if it is a new wing. and — with a capital s. if it is a new wing, and new— with a capital s. if it is a new wing, and new facility, i with a capital s. if it is a new i wing, and new facility, women and children's facility for example as part of a wider campus, that is something as a patient you go in, what matters to you as a patient is whether the facilities are state—of—the—art, whether they are new. if i look at king's lynn, it's a complete rebuild, using the modern methods of construction, the hospital 2.0 which we will use to accelerate this programme. the list of schemes is the schemes set out in 2020. that has not changed. we have brought five additional hospitals into the programme, including the two you just highlighted.— two you 'ust highlighted. because the two you just highlighted. because the rooves are _ two you just highlighted. because the rooves are falling _ two you just highlighted. because the rooves are falling down. i two you just highlighted. because the rooves are falling down. they| the rooves are falling down. they were built with _ the rooves are falling down. they were built with a _ the rooves are falling down. tie: were built with a particular type the rooves are falling down. ttez1 were built with a particular type of concrete. we have since had reports from independent assessors that have said there is growing concerns around their safety. we have put in place over £600 million of preventative measures but we recognise there is a real urgency to those. so they will be completely rebuilt. that has been added to the programme and that is why some schemes have become part of a rolling programme. tqm. schemes have become part of a rolling programme.— schemes have become part of a rolling programme. ok, but a rolling rouramme rolling programme. ok, but a rolling programme means _ rolling programme. ok, but a rolling programme means for _ rolling programme. ok, but a rolling programme means for some - programme means for some communities, as you havejust programme means for some communities, as you have just said, it's very important to people that they turn up in the facilities are good. a rolling programme means some places have rolled off the bottom of the list. some projects that won't be done by 2030, north devon, e sussex, hampshire, nottingham, queens medical, lancaster and preston and st marys in london, huge big important hospital, they don't know now when the work will be done and the boss has said if there is a big delay past 2030 it will be hugely damaging for the health and health care of hundreds of thousands of people. this is a story of a story of really long delays at which patients are going to suffer. how can you justify it? we patients are going to suffer. how can you justify it?— can you justify it? we need to differentiate _ can you justify it? we need to differentiate between - can you justify it? we need to differentiate between when i can you justify it? we need to - differentiate between when schemes are starting and when they are completing. you just challenged me in terms of honesty. if you look at nine of the last ten hospital builds in this country, they were over time and over budget. why? quite frequently they were started and then specifications were changed and then specifications were changed and the schemes massively overran. we are being honest in saying there will be difficulties on some of the schemes. there are often local factors that need to be worked through, land acquisitions, service redesign, various factors that need to be taken on board, constrained sites which make it challenging to complete those by 2030. but what we will be doing in all of those schemes is starting work, getting the enabling works under way, progressing them as part of the new hospitals programme. when progressing them as part of the new hospitals programme.— hospitals programme. when will a hos - ital hospitals programme. when will a hospital like _ hospitals programme. when will a hospital like st _ hospitals programme. when will a hospital like st marys _ hospitals programme. when will a hospital like st marys and - hospitals programme. when will a hospital like st marys and the i hospital like st marys and the schemes massively overran. brute hospital like st marys and the schemes massively overran. we are bein: schemes massively overran. we are being honest _ schemes massively overran. we are being honest in _ schemes massively overran. we are being honest in saying _ schemes massively overran. we are being honest in saying there - schemes massively overran. we are being honest in saying there will i schemes massively overran. we are being honest in saying there will be | being honest in saying there will be difficulties on some of the schemes. there are often local factors that need to be worked through, land acquisitions, service redesign, various factors that need to be taken on board, constrained sites which make it challenging to complete those by 2030. but what we will be doing in all of those schemes is starting work, getting the enabling works under way, progressing them as part of the new hospitals programme. when will a hospitals programme. when will a hospital like st marys see things fix? the key is they will be starting work and we will make progress on enabling works. we know when a belljust _ progress on enabling works. we know when a belljust turns _ progress on enabling works. we know when a belljust turns up _ progress on enabling works. we know when a belljust turns up for - progress on enabling works. we know when a belljust turns up for a - when a belljust turns up for a first time, it doesn't mean you will get the project finished anytime soon. get the pro'ect finished anytime soon. ~ . , get the pro'ect finished anytime soon. . ., , , ., ., soon. we have seen them start and take much longer _ soon. we have seen them start and take much longer to _ soon. we have seen them start and take much longer to complete. i soon. we have seen them start and take much longer to complete. we | soon. we have seen them start and i take much longer to complete. we are being honest some schemes or take slightly longer than 2030 but we will get on with them. they are still part of the programme and will still part of the programme and will still be funded. work on them. . we are also recognising the two you picked out, with those hospitals, there is an immediate issue. we have recogniser and brought that into the programme and that is a hugely positive message for staff and patients of those hospitals. tt’s patients of those hospitals. it's what ou patients of those hospitals. it's what you have no choice about because the roof is falling in. we have talked in detail about that and thank you for clarifying it is a range of building a not 40 brand—new hospitals. there is also a profound problem with delay in the nhs about caring for our elderly and the most vulnerable people in society first we talked about it the last time you were here in november. you vowed to get it sorted and at that point there were 13,500 people in hospital in england who could have been cared for at home if there was support available to them in the community. we have checked the latest figures that are available. it is still at 12,500. so six months on, past the worst of the winter, you have barely made a dent in it, why not? we have invested in — made a dent in it, why not? we have invested in it- _ made a dent in it, why not? we have invested in it. the _ made a dent in it, why not? we have invested in it. the extra _ made a dent in it, why not? we have invested in it. the extra 250 - invested in it. the extra 250 million injanuary as part of our emergency recovery programme. that number has come down from its peak but it is challenging. we are seeing more complex cases coming into hospital. there are challenges in terms of getting that discharge, which is so important to getting flow into our hospitals that relieves the pressure on emergency departments and relieves pressure on ambulance handovers. when departments and relieves pressure on ambulance handovers.— ambulance handovers. when will we see a social — ambulance handovers. when will we see a social care _ ambulance handovers. when will we see a social care plan _ ambulance handovers. when will we see a social care plan on _ ambulance handovers. when will we see a social care plan on the - see a social care plan on the government?— see a social care plan on the government? ~ ., ., ., . , government? we made announcements in terms of staffing — government? we made announcements in terms of staffing with _ government? we made announcements in terms of staffing with the _ government? we made announcements in terms of staffing with the plan _ government? we made announcements in terms of staffing with the plan we - terms of staffing with the plan we put out last month, an extra 250 million of investment in skills within care. there was more investment into social care at the autumn statement, up to 7.5 billion. one of the key thing is the chancellor prioritised in the autumn statement along with 6.6 million of funding into the nhs. igraffiti statement along with 6.6 million of funding into the nhs.— funding into the nhs. will we see the reform _ funding into the nhs. will we see the reform that _ funding into the nhs. will we see the reform that boris _ funding into the nhs. will we see the reform that boris johnson i the reform that borisjohnson wanted? the reform that boris johnson wanted? . , the reform that boris johnson wanted? ., , ., ., ., , wanted? last month alone, we put some additional— wanted? last month alone, we put some additional investment - wanted? last month alone, we put some additional investment into i some additional investment into skills within the care sector, looking at their professional qualifications, how we improve retention. so we are working on that with local authorities. but you are right, discharge is a key challenge within hospitals. that is why we have the emergency recovery plans is that we have seen ambulance handovers delays come down. response to category two are below 30 minutes, which is marked progress from where they were injanuary, so the plan is working but i recognise there is more to do. still the plan is working but i recognise there is more to do.— there is more to do. still a big roblem there is more to do. still a big problem in — there is more to do. still a big problem in a _ there is more to do. still a big problem in a conversation i there is more to do. still a big | problem in a conversation when there is more to do. still a big i problem in a conversation when we will see the social care plan, if it is this side of the election. you mention staffing which for a lot of people understand the health service a is fundamental to a lot of problems there are at the moment. vivek trivandi is here. we had what he said a few moments ago, challenging you are and how you are going to sort this out. now, are you going to sort this out. now, are you going to sort this out. now, are you going to budge so that they call off their strikes? we have had a number of weeks of negotiations with junior doctors. what is striking is their refusal to move from their demand for a 35% pay rise. in the course of the negotiation debt increased to 49% if you include 24—25. in response to taking out constructive approach to the negotiations the bma themselves ask for an intermediate figure, respected nhs leader catherine maclean but notwithstanding her involvement and the talks we have had, the offer that we put in the table in line with the offer the nhs staff council has received, recognising the value ofjunior doctors, they have refused to move from 35% and i don't think that is a fair, reasonable demand for them to make but we want to engage with them, we have been doing and it is them, we have been doing and it is thejunior them, we have been doing and it is the junior doctors them, we have been doing and it is thejunior doctors that them, we have been doing and it is the junior doctors that walked away from those negotiations by calling strikes. ., ,, . ., , strikes. the health secretary has said that the _ strikes. the health secretary has said that the ball— strikes. the health secretary has said that the ball is _ strikes. the health secretary has said that the ball is in _ strikes. the health secretary has said that the ball is in your i strikes. the health secretary has| said that the ball is in your court, you are being unreasonable. 5’s said that the ball is in your court, you are being unreasonable. 596 pay offer this you are being unreasonable. 596 pay offerthis year— you are being unreasonable. 596 pay offer this year would _ you are being unreasonable. 596 pay offer this year would amount - you are being unreasonable. 596 pay offer this year would amount to i offer this year would amount to a massive — offer this year would amount to a massive real terms pay cut and with further _ massive real terms pay cut and with further the — massive real terms pay cut and with further the pay oration doctors had to face _ further the pay oration doctors had to face over— further the pay oration doctors had to face over the past 15 years. so, an offer— to face over the past 15 years. so, an offer which not reverse that trajectory _ an offer which not reverse that trajectory would not be fair or reasonable given that we have seen time and _ reasonable given that we have seen time and time again what impact erosion has on pay, the erosion of pay has _ erosion has on pay, the erosion of pay has an— erosion has on pay, the erosion of pay has an doctors morale and retention _ pay has an doctors morale and retention and ultimately it is driving — retention and ultimately it is driving doctors away so we need to do something to prevent this. he is pretty clear. _ do something to prevent this. he is pretty clear. you — do something to prevent this. he is pretty clear, you need _ do something to prevent this. he is pretty clear, you need to _ do something to prevent this. he: 3 pretty clear, you need to budge on this. , ., , ., ., this. there needs to be movement on both sides- — this. there needs to be movement on both sides. and _ this. there needs to be movement on both sides. and we _ this. there needs to be movement on both sides. and we have _ this. there needs to be movement on both sides. and we have moved i this. there needs to be movement on both sides. and we have moved from| both sides. and we have moved from where we were with the pay review body recommendations to the offer will be made. that offer as part of the wider discussion, with other things that the bma have tabled alongside pay, that they wish to discuss and we are ready to engage with them. the key quote is that the bma junior doctors committee have refused to move on the demand of a 35% pay rise and that has been a key issue. 3596 pay rise and that has been a key issue. ., , . ,, 3596 pay rise and that has been a key issue. ., , a ., , issue. you will pick that up with vivek in a _ issue. you will pick that up with vivek in a few— issue. you will pick that up with vivek in a few minutes, - issue. you will pick that up with vivek in a few minutes, but i issue. you will pick that up with vivek in a few minutes, but the | vivek in a few minutes, but the standard that people have to work in is an issue. doctors are walking away. there are terrible shortages in the nhs. what are you doing about that? if you are still in dispute with the royal college of nursing, in dispute with the junior doctors, doesn't that say something about your attitude towards the professions? irate your attitude towards the professions?— your attitude towards the rofessions? ~ ., , ., professions? we are investing more in the nhs, — professions? we are investing more in the ms, the _ professions? we are investing more in the nhs, the autumn _ professions? we are investing more in the nhs, the autumn statement| professions? we are investing more i in the nhs, the autumn statement set that out, it is usually valued and everyone recognises the pressure junior doctors have been under with a pandemic and they continue to be under pressure stop we have increased the number of medical undergraduates, by 25%, we have more people applying for medical courses now than ever before, and more the medical degrees compared to any other, we are increasing the number, we are opening up new routes such as medical apprenticeships, and that we want to engage in a wider package, notjust pay but other issues that we know are impacting junior doctors. we know are impacting “unior doctors. , ., , ., doctors. interesting that you mention those _ doctors. interesting that you mention those plans - doctors. interesting that you mention those plans were i doctors. interesting that you i mention those plans were staffing, will finally see the workforce plan for the nhs next month? the will finally see the workforce plan for the nhs next month?- for the nhs next month? the is committed _ for the nhs next month? the is committed to — for the nhs next month? the is committed to a _ for the nhs next month? the is committed to a long-term i for the nhs next month? the is i committed to a long-term workforce committed to a long—term workforce plan. in the autumn statement the chancellor set out, the commitment to bring forward the long—term workforce plan, we said that we would do that, a huge amount of work is going on within government on how we grow our domestic workforce because we recognise that the medical profession has been under huge pressure on the pandemic, the growing strains notjust here but if you look across the uk, and we are making significant progress within england, if you look at the long—term weight, the 18 month wait, we have got below 11,000 at the end of march, in wales it was 74,000, we almost eliminated the two—year wait in the summer below 2000, in wales, they were at 32,000 so an england we are making significant progress. and the long—term plan will set that out on the workforce plan. t the long-term plan will set that out on the workforce plan.— the long-term plan will set that out on the workforce plan. i want to ask about something _ on the workforce plan. i want to ask about something else. _ on the workforce plan. i want to ask about something else. what - on the workforce plan. i want to ask about something else. what is i on the workforce plan. i want to ask about something else. what is a - about something else. what is a conservative government doing telling supermarkets to fix prices? that is like price controls, isn't it? no my understanding is that the government is working closely with supermarkets and how we address the concerns around food inflation and the cost of living. l concerns around food inflation and the cost of living.— the cost of living. i doing so in a wa that the cost of living. i doing so in a way that is _ the cost of living. i doing so in a way that is mindful _ the cost of living. i doing so in a way that is mindful of _ the cost of living. i doing so in a way that is mindful of the - the cost of living. i doing so in a| way that is mindful of the impact on suppliers. many suppliers are often very small businesses, family run businesses themselves, under significant pressure from increased costs. ., , , ., ~ , significant pressure from increased costs. ., , , ., ~ costs. have the supermarkets are sinned u- costs. have the supermarkets are signed up to _ costs. have the supermarkets are signed up to this _ costs. have the supermarkets are signed up to this idea _ costs. have the supermarkets are signed up to this idea of- costs. have the supermarkets are signed up to this idea of price - costs. have the supermarkets are | signed up to this idea of price caps on basic items? my signed up to this idea of price caps on basic items?— signed up to this idea of price caps on basic items? my understanding is that this is about _ on basic items? my understanding is that this is about having _ that this is about having constructive discussions with supermarkets about how we work together, not about any element of compulsion but it is sited on the impact on suppliers, making sure that we protect suppliers who themselves face considerable pressures. they can actually badly, thank you very much for coming in, great to have you here. —— thank you very much for coming in, great to have you here. --- great to have you here. -- steve backle , great to have you here. -- steve backley, thank _ great to have you here. -- steve backley, thank you _ great to have you here. -- steve backley, thank you very - great to have you here. -- steve backley, thank you very much i great to have you here. -- steve| backley, thank you very much for coming in. you might remember in our very first programme in september we went to ukraine to speak to olena zelenska — the first lady — about the war. we're determined to follow what's going on as the conflict seems to be moving into a different phase, more than a year in. ukraine say it's about to start a new offensive. and there are signs of discontent on the russian side. one of president putin's staunchest supporters, well at least, he was, is yevgeny prigozhin. he's the leader of the mercenary group, wagner, that's been doing much of the fighting. particularly around bakhmut. he has blasted ministers and accused them of costing his men their lives.he�*s also said �*we are in such a condition that we could lose russia'. will putin's regime acknowledge their difficulties, tell the truth about what is going on? i went to billionaires row in london to ask the russian ambassador here — what did he make of that warning. he is a free man, he is a free person. he is commenting on what is happening in bakhmut, how the battle has gone. but, actually, i don't think that he is very much wrong because the threat that existed for us on the eve of the military operation, or special military operation, that has started in ukraine was really the danger that very serious danger presented to the existence of our state. there was no threat to you before the invasion of ukraine. it's very well documented that the claims that russia repeatedly circulated were false. those are baseless claims. there was no evidence of that. you do not... you do not say the word false or lie or something like that because this is not true. ukraine has assembled an army which is twice and a half bigger than in poland, although the population is comparable. so it was quite capable, a very capable army which was — the target was russia. and when we have heard about the nuclear weapon, acquisition, possible acquisition of nuclear weapon by ukraine, that was a real threat. ambassador, there is no concrete evidence that those claims are true. and i'm asking you this afternoon about what is happening in this conflict right now. mr prigozhin, one of putin's staunchest allies, suggested there is a risk of losing russia because of what is happening right now. do you disagree? not any more, i... i will... i do not support this statement, which is probably taken out of context. i'm not sure about — i haven't heard him saying this or commenting it that way. and i do believe that we have prevented already anything like that, by action. let's talk about how the war has been conducted. there has been an attack on a hospital in dnipro. our colleagues at bbc verify have checked. a missile has fallen on to the hospital. civilians have died. a six—year—old and a three—year—old boy are among those who have been hurt. how can you justify an attack like that on civilians, on a hospital? the problem is that the shooting is going on for nine years and every day shooting is going on in luhansk, donetsk, and all of that. the day before yesterday, kindergarten was destroyed. the day before that, a bus with civilian persons was totally burned by american weapons. but nothing is in your press about that. the united nations, which is an organisation of which russia is a member, reported in march, having taken extensive evidence, that russia had committed willful killings, rape, torture, the transfer and deportation of children. the world saw the attack on the theatre in mariupol. on the train station in kramatorsk, the shopping mall in kremenchuk, the maternity ward in mariupol. why won't you tell the truth about the crimes that are being committed in ukraine by your country? the world also should see what has happened during these nine years of shooting. jeffrey sachs yesterday has made a good, a very good command. he has said that shooting has started not in february 2022, shooting has started in 2014 with mariupol, with maidan, that has been supported by uk, us, germany, france, which has brought the anti—russian government into this. and actually, since that time, shooting is going on in donbas where the ukrainian army has sent its troops, and they have built up fortresses inside of that time. they are shooting and killing kids, children over there, demolishing houses and i'm afraid that's the truth of this of the shooting. ambassador, there is some limited evidence of some crimes being committed by ukrainian troops during this conflict, but there is nothing that compares to the evidence... no, of course. ..widespread evidence of war crimes being committed by russia. i will ask you one more time — why will you not tell the truth about what the world can see? this is easy, actually. we do documentation of every crime, or what is happening with documenting every crime, what is happening... by russian troops? by ukrainian troops. what about your own troops' behaviour? what do you want from me? i'm asking you a question about what russian troops are doing on the ground. what's the purpose of your question? my question is, why won't you tell the truth about what the world can see, what the united nations has documented, war crimes being carried out by russian troops in ukraine? the united nations cannot recommend anything because secretariat is not empowered to make any investigation. i'd like to ask you about how russia is handling criticism of what is going on, at home. now the uk government has condemned the politically motivated conviction of vladimir kara—murza in a moscow court. now we have spoken to his wife evgenia, and she has a question for you. i'd like to play it to you. ambassador kelin, i have a question for you as a representative of the russian state. why does a government that claims to have the overwhelming support of the population need to use repression and prison terms of up to 15 years against anyone who opposes the official narrative? vladimir kara—murza, he is in possession of two citizenship. one is russian and one is british. he has been treated by the russian court as the russian citizen and his british citizenship is not included. i think that personally i can say that he has done everything to be actually, uh, deserved what he has deserved now, because what he has really been speaking about — it is notjust myjudgment. it is judgment by the court. if you are interested in what is being said in russia about events, what is going on, just turn on the television... but there is no free press in russia. i haven't seen any... in fact, otherjournalists have been imprisoned. i haven't seen any other speaker during — that has been arrested or treated differently after this, during this political or after political shows. what about evan gershkovich from the wall streetjournal? what is it about president putin that rather than confronting his critics, he throws them in jail? oh, no, he was arrested because he was a spy, very easily. and it happens. . .. completely denied by his newspaper, his employer. that can be done, that can be done. but if you will talk to your colleague, journalists who have more experienced, they will tell you that it happens very often. what is the end game for russia here? do you want peace? we want peace, but on certain conditions, of course, for us. two things are important that there is there will be no threat from ukraine to russia. this is a one thing... there was no threat to russia from ukraine at the beginning of all of this. you would like to return to our beginning of the conversation? just reminding our viewers. then just let me continue. and second, that russians in ukraine will be treated like all other nations in the world, like france, french people are being treated in belgium, so what has happened in ukraine during all these years? it was extreme nationalism, extreme, absolute, in its ugliest form because russian language has been prohibited. education in russian language has been prohibited. it is russians have been squeezed out of social life in this way. you are repeating those claims for which there is no evidence. for how long would you be willing to fight on? that depends. that depends because ukraine will, but if, it's a big idealistic mistake to think that ukraine may prevail, which, russia is 16 times bigger than ukraine. we have enormous resources. and we can, we we hasn't just started yet to act very, very seriously. you haven't yet started to act seriously? so this could get a lot worse? no, i don't think so. we are just defending the... we are just defending now the lands which are under control and we are assisting russian people over there. we are rebuilding donbas. you say, though, there, it hasn't even got serious yet. could this go on then for five years, ten year? that depends on the efforts in escalation of war that is being undertaken by nato countries, especially by the uk. sooner or later of course, this escalation may have got a new dimension which we do not need and we do not want. what do you mean by that? nuclear tactical weapons? we can make peace tomorrow. we can make peace tomorrow if ukrainian side will be prepared to negotiate. but for the moment there is no preconditions for that, i am afraid. what do you mean by a new dimension? new dimension, it is a long—range missiles that has been provided by united kingdom. it is an escalation, tanks provided, aircrafts provided. we are not afraid of aircraft. we have downed by now 430 ukrainian aircrafts and provision of new, it will only add to these numbers. just finally, ambassador, it's remarkable speaking to you this afternoon, that you are happy to repeat claims that have been disproven. you are happy to try to deflect questions. you are happy to mislead our audience about the truth. maybe you're even lying to yourself about what is really going on. i just wonder, russia has unleashed a terrible conflict that is hurting its own people as well as ukrainians. i think i have told you, if you will try to offend me once again, we willjust stop this interview. i'm not trying to offend you. i have a final question. what has happened in ukraine for russians and for ukrainians has been terrible. how long is it before you look for a way out? you are still trying to tell me that that i am misleading. i am not misleading you. i am just telling you our side of the story, which is never appearing in your newspapers, but it is appearing in other media. and if you are really, if you really are an unbiased journalist, this is a new cv and this job description, as i say, then you should learn both sides of the story. this is not about both sides of story. the story, always. and i want you to give us your final answer. mm—hm? how long before you stop denying the reality of what is going on and look for a way out so that peace can come? you can stop it tomorrow, if you will stop minister of defence of germany, has said the day before yesterday, i guess in the parliament, that if we will stop supporting, supplying weapons to ukraine, it will be stopped the day after tomorrow. he chuckles that's funny? this is funny. yes, of course it's not very funny, but it is just i've said the truth. if supplies of weapons will be stopped, then it will all be finished the day after tomorrow. please stop it. 0k. good. people in ukraine might rather wish that russia would stop it. if people in ukraine will stop to support nationalists, if they will decide finally to change the course which other nationalistic government has taken, and if they will realise that the best way is to live in peace with their neighbours and we should take care of each other and we should also take into account interests of each other and not the way washington is living right now. either it is better to formulate — my way or no way. the russian ambassador talking to me there. bill, you have been following this for many years and as a prominent activist who has been fighting against president putin, it was surreal to talk to the russian ambassador. i think some of our viewers might even find it grotesque to hear some of the things he was saying there. what is your take on what is really happening inside the regime at the moment? melt. what is really happening inside the regime at the moment? well, they are failin: , the regime at the moment? well, they are failing. they are _ regime at the moment? well, they are failing, they are failing _ regime at the moment? well, they are failing, they are failing miserably. - failing, they are failing miserably. the corruption inside russia has hollowed out their military. there suppose it strong force failed at every step. it lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers. they have lost huge amounts of equipment. as he said, ukraine is a small country compared to russia and they are being completely decimated by this small country. it was very painful to watch that interview because everything he said was a lie. they are lying to themselves or lying to the west and it's going to be difficult and painfulfor them the west and it's going to be difficult and painful for them when ukraine finally launches their counteroffensive.— ukraine finally launches their counteroffensive. what about that internal dissent? _ counteroffensive. what about that internal dissent? i— counteroffensive. what about that internal dissent? i know— counteroffensive. what about that internal dissent? i know you - counteroffensive. what about that internal dissent? i know you are i internal dissent? i know you are close to the case of bladder curran mercer. we played the question from his wife. what is going on with the internal repression of criticism? fih internal repression of criticism? oh it is a internal repression of criticism? oi it is a totalitarian regime internal repression of criticism? i it is a totalitarian regime like north korea physically can't even hold up that empty sign with nothing on it with on red square without being arrested are going to jail. my friend vladimir, his wife is talking about his 25 year sentence. it was him criticising putin for human rights abuse. 25 years going to jail for criticising the government, it shows that there is just so much sensitivity, that nobody can say a word inside russia. putin is so afraid of his own people. so when people say putin is popular, he is not popular any more. there is no way you can be popular when everyone has lost friends, relatives and the war. you can't be popular when you can't travel or use netflix or your credit card. so now it's just a question of hardcore repression and how long they are able to do that repression before people say enough is enough. we have seen this, like yvegeny prigozhin, he is saying enough is enough, he's a monster himself, but they are not getting their weapons. other people are saying enough is enough. there their weapons. other people are saying enough is enough. there is a sun aestion saying enough is enough. there is a suggestion there _ saying enough is enough. there is a suggestion there could _ saying enough is enough. there is a suggestion there could be _ saying enough is enough. there is a suggestion there could be a - saying enough is enough. there is a suggestion there could be a threat i suggestion there could be a threat to putin. is there a threat to putin's ability to hang on in power right now? i putin's ability to hang on in power riaht now? ~' i, , i, , right now? i think there always has been a threat _ right now? i think there always has been a threat which _ right now? i think there always has been a threat which is _ right now? i think there always has been a threat which is why - right now? i think there always has been a threat which is why he - been a threat which is why he becomes more and more strident, arresting more and more people. i think he started this war as a war of destruction. not because of nato war all this nonsense that the ambassador was saying in the interview, he started this war because he was afraid that the russian people were going to rise up against him. a good war gets everyone turned against a foreign enemy. everyone turned against a foreign enem . , i, , everyone turned against a foreign enem. , enemy. there is of course the impact in russia and — enemy. there is of course the impact in russia and ukraine _ enemy. there is of course the impact in russia and ukraine in _ enemy. there is of course the impact in russia and ukraine in appalling - in russia and ukraine in appalling ways but for more than a year is now our economy has been hit in all sorts of ways because of the disruption from the conflict. for businesses that moment, how tough is it? have we got used to saying it is difficult for business because of high inflation, what are your members telling you? high inflation, what are your members tellin: ou? , members telling you? remember, we were coming — members telling you? remember, we were coming out _ members telling you? remember, we were coming out of— members telling you? remember, we were coming out of covid _ members telling you? remember, we were coming out of covid when - members telling you? remember, we were coming out of covid when we - were coming out of covid when we started _ were coming out of covid when we started to — were coming out of covid when we started to see _ were coming out of covid when we started to see increasing - were coming out of covid when we started to see increasing prices i were coming out of covid when we started to see increasing prices of| started to see increasing prices of raw materials. _ started to see increasing prices of raw materials, difficulty— started to see increasing prices of raw materials, difficulty getting . raw materials, difficulty getting people. — raw materials, difficulty getting peopte, suapty _ raw materials, difficulty getting people, supply issues. - raw materials, difficulty getting people, supply issues. the - raw materials, difficulty getting people, supply issues. the war| raw materials, difficulty getting l people, supply issues. the war in ukraine — people, supply issues. the war in ukraine eye— people, supply issues. the war in ukraine. eye watering _ people, supply issues. the war in ukraine. eye watering increases i people, supply issues. the war ini ukraine. eye watering increases in energy— ukraine. eye watering increases in energy costs _ ukraine. eye watering increases in energy costs for— ukraine. eye watering increases in energy costs. for businesses, - ukraine. eye watering increases in. energy costs. for businesses, 200, 300. _ energy costs. for businesses, 200, 300, 400%~ — energy costs. for businesses, 200, 300. 40096-— energy costs. for businesses, 200, 300, 400%.- businesses . energy costs. for businesses, 200, i 300, 400%.- businesses don't 300, 40096. 40096? businesses don't have a price — 300, 40096. 40096? businesses don't have a price cap _ 300, 40096. 40096? businesses don't have a price cap like _ 300, 40096. 40096? businesses don't have a price cap like consumers - 300, 40096. 40096? businesses don't have a price cap like consumers do. i have a price cap like consumers do. lots of— have a price cap like consumers do. lots of small — have a price cap like consumers do. lots of small businesses _ have a price cap like consumers do. lots of small businesses by - have a price cap like consumers do. lots of small businesses by energyl lots of small businesses by energy like consumers _ lots of small businesses by energy like consumers do. _ lots of small businesses by energy like consumers do. huge _ lots of small businesses by energy like consumers do. huge costs- lots of small businesses by energy like consumers do. huge costs forl like consumers do. huge costs for business — like consumers do. huge costs for business its— like consumers do. huge costs for business. it's been— like consumers do. huge costs for business. it's been really- like consumers do. huge costs for business. it's been really hard - like consumers do. huge costs for business. it's been really hard for| business. it's been really hard for them _ business. it's been really hard for them to— business. it's been really hard for them to keep _ business. it's been really hard for them to keep going. _ business. it's been really hard for them to keep going. 50 _ business. it's been really hard for them to keep going. 50 it- business. it's been really hard for them to keep going. 50 it got- business. it's been really hard for. them to keep going. 50 it got better over the _ them to keep going. 50 it got better over the winter, _ them to keep going. 50 it got better over the winter, the _ them to keep going. 50 it got better over the winter, the energy- them to keep going. 50 it got better over the winter, the energy supportl over the winter, the energy support from government— over the winter, the energy support from government was _ over the winter, the energy support from government was hugely - over the winter, the energy support - from government was hugely welcome. that's_ from government was hugely welcome. that's mainly— from government was hugely welcome. that's mainly gone _ from government was hugely welcome. that's mainly gone. businesses - from government was hugely welcome. that's mainly gone. businesses are - that's mainly gone. businesses are adjusting — that's mainly gone. businesses are adjusting they— that's mainly gone. businesses are adjusting they do _ that's mainly gone. businesses are adjusting. they do adjust _ that's mainly gone. businesses are adjusting. they do adjust but - that's mainly gone. businesses are adjusting. they do adjust but it's i adjusting. they do adjust but it's been _ adjusting. they do adjust but it's been really— adjusting. they do adjust but it's been really hard _ adjusting. they do adjust but it's been really hard work. _ adjusting. they do adjust but it's been really hard work. find - adjusting. they do adjust but it's been really hard work. and inflation is still so high _ been really hard work. and inflation is still so high even _ been really hard work. and inflation is still so high even though - been really hard work. and inflation is still so high even though there i is still so high even though there are signs of it coming down, core inflation still up there. it was reported that bank of england governor said to you a while ago, don't worry about inflation, it will sort itself out, is that true? irate sort itself out, is that true? we did talk to _ sort itself out, is that true? we did talk to the governor about it early— did talk to the governor about it early on — did talk to the governor about it early on and _ did talk to the governor about it early on and what _ did talk to the governor about it early on and what we _ did talk to the governor about it early on and what we said - did talk to the governor about it early on and what we said is, i did talk to the governor about it. early on and what we said is, you are hearing — early on and what we said is, you are hearing it— early on and what we said is, you are hearing it here _ early on and what we said is, you are hearing it here first, - early on and what we said is, you i are hearing it here first, governor. we are _ are hearing it here first, governor. we are the — are hearing it here first, governor. we are the canary— are hearing it here first, governor. we are the canary in— are hearing it here first, governor. we are the canary in the _ are hearing it here first, governor. we are the canary in the mine. i we are the canary in the mine. remember, _ we are the canary in the mine. remember, we— we are the canary in the mine. remember, we were - we are the canary in the mine. remember, we werejust- we are the canary in the mine. . remember, we were just coming we are the canary in the mine. - remember, we were just coming out of covid at _ remember, we were just coming out of covid at the _ remember, we were just coming out of covid at the time. _ remember, we were just coming out of covid at the time. it _ remember, we were just coming out of covid at the time. it had _ remember, we were just coming out of covid at the time. it had been- covid at the time. it had been really— covid at the time. it had been really painful— covid at the time. it had been really painful and _ covid at the time. it had been really painful and the - covid at the time. it had been. really painful and the governor, covid at the time. it had been- really painful and the governor, he had to— really painful and the governor, he had to wait— really painful and the governor, he had to wait and _ really painful and the governor, he had to wait and see _ really painful and the governor, he had to wait and see for _ really painful and the governor, he had to wait and see for a _ really painful and the governor, he had to wait and see for a little i had to wait and see for a little white — had to wait and see for a little while. ., , . ., had to wait and see for a little while. ., ,. ., , while. some of his critics say maybe he waited to — while. some of his critics say maybe he waited to see _ while. some of his critics say maybe he waited to see for _ while. some of his critics say maybe he waited to see for too _ while. some of his critics say maybe he waited to see for too long. i'm i he waited to see for too long. i'm sure the bank of england would dispute that. let's talk about the nhs. when we were talking to steve barclay you are busy sending in your e—mails. one said your elderly father was stuck in an east surrey hospital for eight months waiting for referral to a rehabilitation centre in their community. they say they are desperate for help. someone else has been told they have got a two month wait for a consultant, so they will be waiting in pain until then and the situation is intolerable. vivek, whilst this is all going on, it's a well documented, in a way, how canjunior doctors who go into the profession to care for people walk out of the wards when members of the public and patients are suffering like this? ihla patients are suffering like this? no doctor goes on strike happily. no doctor— doctor goes on strike happily. no doctor wants to inherently go on strike _ doctor wants to inherently go on strike but— doctor wants to inherently go on strike but the alternative is inaction— strike but the alternative is inaction and we canjust see the trajectory— inaction and we canjust see the trajectory of these worsening outcomes for patients get worse. we have 7 _ outcomes for patients get worse. we have 7 million patients at the moment— have 7 million patients at the moment waiting for an elective appointment. find moment waiting for an elective appointment-— moment waiting for an elective a- ointment. �* ., , appointment. and it will get worse because you _ appointment. and it will get worse because you are — appointment. and it will get worse because you are going _ appointment. and it will get worse because you are going on - appointment. and it will get worse because you are going on strike? l because you are going on strike? it's getting worse because we don't have enough staff to treat them. the number _ have enough staff to treat them. the number is _ have enough staff to treat them. the number is rising and will continue to rise _ number is rising and will continue to rise unless we do something about it. to rise unless we do something about it steve _ to rise unless we do something about it. steve barclay talked about responding to nhs leaders about infrastructure around these hospitals but i wonder why he's not responding — hospitals but i wonder why he's not responding about star. there are a number— responding about star. there are a number of— responding about star. there are a number of nhs who have said that underpaying work will cause them to leave _ underpaying work will cause them to leave i _ underpaying work will cause them to leave. .. underpaying work will cause them to leave. ~' ., ., ., ., leave. i think quite a lot of our viewers will — leave. i think quite a lot of our viewers will hear _ leave. i think quite a lot of our viewers will hear you - leave. i think quite a lot of our viewers will hear you started l leave. i think quite a lot of our. viewers will hear you started off leave. i think quite a lot of our i viewers will hear you started off by asking the 35% and right now, they will think it sounds crazy. no one is getting a 35% pay rise and you have upped it since then. surely you will have to budge on your demands in order to fix the situation for the people watching at home? haste in order to fix the situation for the people watching at home? we have been very consistent _ the people watching at home? we have been very consistent in _ the people watching at home? we have been very consistent in what _ the people watching at home? we have been very consistent in what we - the people watching at home? we have been very consistent in what we are i been very consistent in what we are wanting _ been very consistent in what we are wanting and that is to restore the paid doctors have lost over the last 15 years _ paid doctors have lost over the last 15 years. we came to the government with a _ 15 years. we came to the government with a variety of proposals, trying to be _ with a variety of proposals, trying to be flexible and creative to see what _ to be flexible and creative to see what might work. the government suggested looking at deals which encompass a number of years and they themselves— encompass a number of years and they themselves suggested looking forwards into the future. of course, that would — forwards into the future. of course, that would account and further pay erosion _ that would account and further pay erosion. ~ , ., that would account and further pay erosion. ~ y., , that would account and further pay erosion. ~ , ., , ., ., erosion. will you budge from that demand? to _ erosion. will you budge from that demand? to restore _ erosion. will you budge from that demand? to restore our- erosion. will you budge from that demand? to restore our pay? i erosion. will you budge from that demand? to restore our pay? to| erosion. will you budge from that i demand? to restore our pay? to be clear, demand? to restore our pay? to be clear. what — demand? to restore our pay? to be clear. what you _ demand? to restore our pay? to be clear, what you want _ demand? to restore our pay? to be clear, what you want to _ demand? to restore our pay? to be clear, what you want to do - demand? to restore our pay? to be clear, what you want to do is - clear, what you want to do is restore it because of cuts over the years or real terms cuts over the years or real terms cuts over the years but the question now in terms of trying to fix this, you had the health secretary say you have to budge from your demand if there is a way through. will you reduce your demands so that patients don't suffer the impact of strikes? that is exactly what — suffer the impact of strikes? that is exactly what we _ suffer the impact of strikes? that is exactly what we have _ suffer the impact of strikes? that is exactly what we have been trying to do _ is exactly what we have been trying to do because we were trying to negotiate — to do because we were trying to negotiate and come up with ways to do this— negotiate and come up with ways to do this but— negotiate and come up with ways to do this but it was clear that after the government offered us 5%, despite — the government offered us 5%, despite us going back, being creative _ despite us going back, being creative and coming back to them, they were — creative and coming back to them, they were the ones i'm willing to budge _ they were the ones i'm willing to budge. that 5% amounts to a doctor who is— budge. that 5% amounts to a doctor who is now— budge. that 5% amounts to a doctor who is now earning £14.09 an hour to earning _ who is now earning £14.09 an hour to earning £14 _ who is now earning £14.09 an hour to earning £14 an hour. that is simply not going _ earning £14 an hour. that is simply not going to — earning £14 an hour. that is simply not going to be enough to keep them here to be continuing to care for our population. fire here to be continuing to care for our population-— here to be continuing to care for our population. are you still asking for a 4596 our population. are you still asking for a 45% pay _ our population. are you still asking for a 4596 pay rise? _ our population. are you still asking for a 4596 pay rise? the _ our population. are you still asking for a 4596 pay rise? the 4596 i our population. are you still asking for a 4596 pay rise? the 4596 was i our population. are you still asking | for a 4596 pay rise? the 4596 was for future years- _ for a 4596 pay rise? the 4596 was for future years. that _ for a 4596 pay rise? the 4596 was for future years. that was _ for a 4596 pay rise? the 4596 was for future years. that was not - for a 4596 pay rise? the 4596 was for future years. that was not for i for a 4596 pay rise? the 4596 was for future years. that was not for this l future years. that was not for this year~ _ future years. that was not for this year~ that — year. that is not what we talked about. what exactly are you asking for nowt? to _ about. what exactly are you asking for nowt? to restore _ about. what exactly are you asking for nowt? to restore our _ about. what exactly are you asking for nowt? to restore our pay, i about. what exactly are you asking | for nowt? to restore our pay, which is rouuhl for nowt? to restore our pay, which is roughly 3596. .. _ for nowt? to restore our pay, which is roughly 3596. .. and _ for nowt? to restore our pay, which is roughly 3596. .. and you _ for nowt? to restore our pay, which is roughly 3596. .. and you are i is roughly 3596. .. and you are stickin: is roughly 3596. .. and you are sticking with _ is roughly 3596. .. and you are sticking with that, _ is roughly 3596. .. and you are sticking with that, ok. i is roughly 3596. .. and you are sticking with that, 0k. thank| is roughly 3596. .. and you are i sticking with that, 0k. thank you sticking with that, ok. thank you for now is that we will back with you for some cheer at the end of the programme because i promised you something cheery at the end. now back to those front pages — splashed with the disgrace of phillip schofield — admitted he'd had an affair with a much younger male colleauge and then lied about it. although he said he did not break the law. but for itv, a huge british brand and institution, there are big questions about who knew what was going on and when. nadine dorries was the culture secretary, and she's now turning her hand to tv presenting as well as still being an mp, for now. i spoke to her earlier and started by asking her about her experience of being interviewed by phillip schofield on this morning. see, as you know, laura, being interviewed as a politician, by a presenter or a journalist, it's never an easy experience. but ijust found him to be quite bullying in his attitude towards the co—host who was standing in for holly willoughby and that made me feel more uncomfortable than answering the questions. when the camera was on me and i was talking, he started aggressivelyjabbing at the script with his hands so the pages were rattling, and the co—presenter looked terrified. and now we know more about what was going on behind the scenes, and phillip schofield has admitted he had lied to his bosses, to his family, to his viewers about what was going on behind the scenes, there are suggestions even that this morning could be axed. i mean, do you think that would be an appropriate response? so i wrote about this last week, and one of the points that i made was it will all come out in the wash. and it has. the fact that phillip schofield has made a rather grovelling apology to the daily mail in the form of an email, there seems to be this understanding that that's it now, everything will move on. and it's not the case, i'm afraid, because what it actually does is open up more questions as to what happened. we know that there were complaints lodged with itv over a long period of time. what happened to those complaints? i think the editor of the programme, martin frizell, has some questions to answer himself, and i'm afraid so does holly willoughby. and how did that young boy, so young, get a job at itv? what were the processes that were involved? what was the safeguarding in place for someone who was so young, at that age? what contact was first made? who contacted him ? itv, though, say that when there were rumours of this relationship, they did investigate, but there were categoric denials and presumably they then hoped that everybody would move on. do you think, i mean, you're having a go at tv presenting these days. i'm a tv presenter. do you think that presenters, somebody as big and as well known as phillip schofield, actuallyjust have too much power in the industry? so there's this thing, isn't there? there are men, it's men particularly, who have positions of authority or trust and power, kind of think they're above the law and above those standards that the rest of us are held by and held to. and i think there is absolutely an element of that which takes place. you talked there about men in power, nadine dorries, obviously with a very different set of circumstances. there's been rather a lot of rumpus about your old friend boris johnson and some of his behaviour when he was still in power. complaints about what happened during the lockdown have been referred again to police this week and his allies, they were claiming it's some sort of stitch—up. isn't the suggestion that it's a stitch—up just spin and nonsense? oh, come on, laura. it's... anybody who thinks that just weeks before the privileges committee were about to announce theirfindings into the inquiry, but this just happened, just happened to be discovered and found and reported, i'm afraid is... it's for the birds. it's quite something to say, "a—ha, it must have happened". it's quite something else to actually have evidence of that and make claims that the government has been acting inappropriately. the only people who were acting inappropriately and making false claims are those who have sent these diaries off to the police and off to the privileges committee just a few weeks before the privileges committee was about to report on its findings. just lastly, there is also a rumpus about the number of people that borisjohnson wants to send to the house of lords. you still expecting to get a peerage? so i've never officially been told that is happening. everybody else... not officially. no, but the only thing i've seen is a leak to a newspaper. so i don't expect anything in this life, laura, i'll just take whatever comes my way. ok, nadine dorries, thank you so much for speaking the nhs is neverfar from the top of voters' lists, so it's never far from politicians' lips. we spoke to the health secretary. and now, jonathan ashworth is here. one thing that is writing in the last seven days, your colleague west reading at helfer labour was talking about patient choice and the conservatives were talking about patient choice —— at health, for labour. i patient choice -- at health, for labour. , ., , ., , labour. i wish the conservatives were picking _ labour. i wish the conservatives were picking up _ labour. i wish the conservatives were picking up the _ labour. i wish the conservatives were picking up the plans- labour. i wish the conservatives were picking up the plans that i labour. i wish the conservatives i were picking up the plans that keir starmer and wes streeting have out late because one of the big issues in the nhs, one of the reasons why we have 7 million people on a waiting list, many people waiting more than a year for treatment, and now 2.5 million people out of work for reasons of sickness, we have lost half a billion days to sickness in 2019, so people are too sick to work. one of the reasons why people are waiting so long for treatment is because we simply do not have enough staff in the national health service, which is why keir starmer and wes streeting have outlined a detailed plan to recruit the nurses, midwives, paramedics and doctors we needin midwives, paramedics and doctors we need in our nhs now, and i wish that steve barclay would adopt it. jeremy hunt supported the plan when wes streeting announced it and now he appears to be blocking it. there are strikin: appears to be blocking it. there are striking similarities, _ appears to be blocking it. there are striking similarities, both _ appears to be blocking it. there are striking similarities, both parties i striking similarities, both parties presenting patient choice as a part of the solution. i want to play spot the difference. you can show you two different quotes on the screen... one of them were said by keir starmer, the other by rishi sunak, can you tell us which was which? the latter one was _ can you tell us which was which? tie: latter one was said by can you tell us which was which? ti2 latter one was said by keir starmer. you did actually get it right so new blushes for you. rishi sunak is copying keir starmer.- blushes for you. rishi sunak is copying keir starmer. there are similar plans- — copying keir starmer. there are similar plans. for _ copying keir starmer. there are similar plans. for lots - copying keir starmer. there are similar plans. for lots of - copying keir starmer. there arej similar plans. for lots of people copying keir starmer. there are i similar plans. for lots of people in your party, they say labour is offering patient choice and more use offering patient choice and more use of the private sector, that is basically what the tories are doing. it is not remotely what the conservatives are doing. we have a plan to drive down waiting lists. people are waiting too long for treatment under the conservatives. if somebody can get treatment somewhere else, more swiftly, then they should be able to do that. but they should be able to do that. but the big difference between us and the big difference between us and the conservatives, we have a detailed plan to recruit the doctors, nurses and midwives and so on for our nhs. the second big difference, and this is part of the pre—final half of the labour party is that i want to bring together what we are doing in thejobcentre and the benefits system alongside what we're doing in many mental health services, services, because when we know that so many people are out of work for reasons of mental health conditions, addiction, then there are ways in which services can work together to get people back to work. irate work together to get people back to work. ~ . , ., work together to get people back to work. . ., , ., work. we have spoken about your lans to work. we have spoken about your plans to get _ work. we have spoken about your plans to get people _ work. we have spoken about your plans to get people back - work. we have spoken about your plans to get people back to i work. we have spoken about your plans to get people back to work. j plans to get people back to work. but like many employers, the nhs is very dependent on foreign labour will top your party's position might be confusing for yours in the last days so maybe you can clear things up top chair of the party anneliese dodds said under your plan immigration could rise in the short term but keir starmer says he wants emigration to go down, so who is right? irate emigration to go down, so who is riuht? ~ . ., emigration to go down, so who is riuht? ~ ., ., , emigration to go down, so who is ri. ht? . ., ., , ., ., right? we want to bring immigration down, that right? we want to bring immigration down. that is — right? we want to bring immigration down, that is the _ right? we want to bring immigration down, that is the plan. _ right? we want to bring immigration down, that is the plan. we - right? we want to bring immigration down, that is the plan. we have i right? we want to bring immigration | down, that is the plan. we have seen detailed plans from keir starmer and yvette cooper about how we want to reform the system. we don't want firms to be able to recruit and undercut workers by 20%. your collea . ue undercut workers by 20%. your colleague in — undercut workers by 20%. your colleague in the _ undercut workers by 20%. your colleague in the shadow - undercut workers by 20%. your colleague in the shadow cabinet anneliese dodds said emigration might go up in the short term. we want to might go up in the short term. , want to bring immigration down. might go up in the short term. we l want to bring immigration down. so she was wrong to say that, in the short term, it might go up? that is what you said, she said under your plan immigration numbers could go up in the short term. firgh plan immigration numbers could go up in the short term.— in the short term. argh plan is to brina in the short term. argh plan is to bring immigration _ in the short term. argh plan is to bring immigration down. - in the short term. argh plan is to bring immigration down. the - in the short term. argh plan is to - bring immigration down. the system should be fair, rules —based, based on points, a reflection on the health of the labour market and the reason why immigration is at such high levels, 600,000 under the conservatives, even though they promised to bring it right down, the reason is because we are not investing in reskilling and upscaling workers. we are not investing and reforming the welfare and jobcentre system, to get people back into work. that is what we will do. we will fix the red tape and bureaucracy and the premiership levy, ijobcentres and develop a system to encourage people into work. . , , . , , system to encourage people into work. .,, , , work. -- apprenticeship levy. they mi . ht work. -- apprenticeship levy. they miaht be work. -- apprenticeship levy. they might be laudable _ work. -- apprenticeship levy. they might be laudable aims _ work. -- apprenticeship levy. they might be laudable aims for- work. -- apprenticeship levy. they might be laudable aims for the - might be laudable aims for the labour party but many on the left would like you to make a positive case for immigration, and not see it as we have seen this morning in the sun newspaper, keir starmer and one side of the paper saying immigration should go down at suella braverman on the other side saying that immigration should go down, are you comfortable with that? we immigration should go down, are you comfortable with that?— comfortable with that? we have 1.3 million peeple _ comfortable with that? we have 1.3 million people unemployed, - comfortable with that? we have 1.3 i million people unemployed, 700,000 young people not in work, education or training, young people not in work, education ortraining, hundreds young people not in work, education or training, hundreds of thousands of people sick, or older workers over 50 who say that given support they would try and work and you know what? only one in ten of the people out of work and older workers who get any support from the system. that is ridiculous, we have to perform that. and ministers cannot tell you how many unemployed people claiming universal credit are accessing any training. we do not have any figures on mac. that is hopeless. you have to reform the system now to help people move into work. we system now to help people move into work. ~ ., ., ., ., work. we want to ask me about government _ work. we want to ask me about government proposals - work. we want to ask me about government proposals to - work. we want to ask me about government proposals to get i government proposals to get supermarkets to cap prices. the last time you what you said you would like to improve supply chains etc, but the conservatives seem to be to the left of you, trying to freeze prices. it the left of you, trying to freeze rices. , ., ., ., , , prices. it is extraordinary. rishi sunak is like _ prices. it is extraordinary. rishi sunak is like this _ prices. it is extraordinary. rishi sunak is like this latter-day - prices. it is extraordinary. rishi- sunak is like this latter-day edward sunak is like this latter—day edward heath, with price controls. we have an inflation problem. the reason is, because of 13 years of failure where we have not invested in sustainable energy, cut storage, and we are not improving the labour supply. we could take measures now to get inflation under control and grow the economy but instead you havejeremy hunt saying we might have to go into recession as if, you know, worthlessness, unemployment, people losing their homes is a price worth paying. government can take action now to tame inflation.— now to tame inflation. jonathan ashworth. _ now to tame inflation. jonathan ashworth, thank _ now to tame inflation. jonathan ashworth, thank you _ now to tame inflation. jonathan ashworth, thank you very - now to tame inflation. jonathan ashworth, thank you very much indeed. now it's nearly 10.00, so let's remind ourselves, we started this morning asking if either of the two main parties were really getting to grips with what's going on in the nhs. we've just heard labour's answer — and earlier i asked the health secretary, steve barclay, about the government's promise to build a0 "new" hospitals — here's what he said. some schemes include for example a hospital being gutted and fully refurbished. look at charing cross, for example, that is an example of what will be doing, and we will be starting work to decant some of the facilities and refurbish, so there is a range of things... a range of things, it is not a0 new hospitals. that was a debate that was had in 2020. a range of things. we will talk about something fun and a second but vivek, what are the chances of you and the government being able to sort out your dispute if you were to give us marks out of ten? we sort out your dispute if you were to give us marks out of ten?— give us marks out of ten? we are d in: or give us marks out of ten? we are drying or we _ give us marks out of ten? we are drying or we can _ give us marks out of ten? we are drying or we can add _ give us marks out of ten? we are drying or we can add eager - give us marks out of ten? we are drying or we can add eager to - drying or we can add eager to get back to the negotiating table. —— we are happy to explore ways to fully restore doctors' pay and have come up restore doctors' pay and have come up with a variety of proposals to do that but when the government do not budge on an offer that would reflect another real terms pay cut and widen the gap that doctors have between the gap that doctors have between the rest of the workers and the economy, it is no surprise that is not going to be attractive to our members. not going to be attractive to our members-_ not going to be attractive to our members. ., , , , ., ., members. not surprising that we have not been able — members. not surprising that we have not been able to _ members. not surprising that we have not been able to find _ members. not surprising that we have not been able to find peace _ members. not surprising that we have not been able to find peace and - not been able to find peace and harmony between you and the government in the studio this morning. but let's show you something joyous. pictures of what happened last night in luton. jubilation. just in case you missed it, luton town are being promoted to the premiership after winning 6—5 on penalties. thejoy of the premiership after winning 6—5 on penalties. the joy of supporting small football teams. extraordinary pictures. were you watching that last night? i pictures. were you watching that last niuht? .,, pictures. were you watching that last niuht? ., ., .,, last night? i was in luton last month meeting _ last night? i was in luton last month meeting are _ last night? i was in luton last month meeting are lot - last night? i was in luton last month meeting are lot of - last night? i was in luton last - month meeting are lot of businesses so i know_ month meeting are lot of businesses so i know that they will be very pleased — so i know that they will be very pleased today. in a town like luton or wrexham, pleased today. in a town like luton orwrexham, how pleased today. in a town like luton or wrexham, how much can that kind of thing _ or wrexham, how much can that kind of thing help— or wrexham, how much can that kind of thing help us more town around the country, do you think? it is a great inward _ the country, do you think? it is a great inward investment, global britain _ great inward investment, global britain at — great inward investment, global britain at its best. you great inward investment, global britain at its best.— britain at its best. you are from leicester. _ britain at its best. you are from leicester. you _ britain at its best. you are from leicester, you will— britain at its best. you are from leicester, you will have - britain at its best. you are from leicester, you will have a - britain at its best. you are from| leicester, you will have a similar story. b. leicester, you will have a similar sto . �* , . leicester, you will have a similar sto .m ., leicester, you will have a similar sto . �* , ., , ., , , story. a similar story when they were promoted _ story. a similar story when they were promoted from _ story. a similar story when they were promoted from the - story. a similar story when they - were promoted from the championship and went on to win the premier league, it broughtjubilation to the city, it was a great time to be there. is city, it was a great time to be there. , . ~ city, it was a great time to be there. , ., ~ ., there. is an american looking at that, are there. is an american looking at that. are you — there. is an american looking at that, are you enjoying _ there. is an american looking at that, are you enjoying that - there. is an american looking at| that, are you enjoying that along with everyone else? i that, are you enjoying that along with everyone else?— that, are you enjoying that along with everyone else? i love it when the little guy _ with everyone else? i love it when the little guy wins _ with everyone else? i love it when the little guy wins big. _ with everyone else? i love it when the little guy wins big. that - with everyone else? i love it when the little guy wins big. that is - with everyone else? i love it when the little guy wins big. that is a i the little guy wins big. that is a great _ the little guy wins big. that is a great thing _ the little guy wins big. that is a great thing about _ the little guy wins big. that is a great thing about football- the little guy wins big. that is aj great thing about football here, the little guy wins big. that is a i great thing about football here, in america _ great thing about football here, in america you — great thing about football here, in america you have _ great thing about football here, in america you have the _ great thing about football here, in america you have the national- america you have the national foothall— america you have the national football league, _ america you have the national football league, and - america you have the national football league, and nobody. america you have the national. football league, and nobody gets relegated — football league, and nobody gets relegated or— football league, and nobody gets relegated or promoted. _ football league, and nobody gets relegated or promoted. here, i football league, and nobody getsj relegated or promoted. here, you football league, and nobody gets i relegated or promoted. here, you can have these _ relegated or promoted. here, you can have these little _ relegated or promoted. here, you can have these little success _ relegated or promoted. here, you can have these little success stories - have these little success stories and all — have these little success stories and all of — have these little success stories and all of a _ have these little success stories and all of a sudden _ have these little success stories and all of a sudden from - have these little success stories i and all of a sudden from nowhere, here comes — and all of a sudden from nowhere, here comes somebody. _ and all of a sudden from nowhere, here comes somebody. and - and all of a sudden from nowhere, here comes somebody. and that l and all of a sudden from nowhere, | here comes somebody. and that is and all of a sudden from nowhere, . here comes somebody. and that is a nice, _ here comes somebody. and that is a nice. it _ here comes somebody. and that is a nice. it is _ here comes somebody. and that is a nice. it is nice — here comes somebody. and that is a nice, it is nice to _ here comes somebody. and that is a nice, it is nice to see _ here comes somebody. and that is a nice, it is nice to see the _ here comes somebody. and that is a nice, it is nice to see the social- nice, it is nice to see the social mobility — nice, it is nice to see the social mobility. america _ nice, it is nice to see the social mobility. america is— nice, it is nice to see the social mobility. america is supposedl nice, it is nice to see the social. mobility. america is supposed to nice, it is nice to see the social- mobility. america is supposed to be the place _ mobility. america is supposed to be the place of— mobility. america is supposed to be the place of social— mobility. america is supposed to be the place of social mobility - mobility. america is supposed to be the place of social mobility but i the place of social mobility but here, — the place of social mobility but here, you _ the place of social mobility but here. you have _ the place of social mobility but here, you have it _ the place of social mobility but here, you have it in _ the place of social mobility but here, you have it in football. . the place of social mobility but i here, you have it in football. like a map— here, you have it in football. like a map have — here, you have it in football. like a map have you _ here, you have it in football. like a map have you become - here, you have it in football. like a map have you become a - here, you have it in football. likei a map have you become a football fan with all— a map have you become a football fan with all of— a map have you become a football fan with all of your — a map have you become a football fan with all of your years _ a map have you become a football fan with all of your years living _ with all of your years living in london? _ with all of your years living in london? how— with all of your years living in london? how can _ with all of your years living in london? how can you - with all of your years living in london? how can you not? . with all of your years living in london? how can you not? thank you for 'oinin: london? how can you not? thank you forioining us— london? how can you not? thank you forioining us in _ london? how can you not? thank you forjoining us in giving _ london? how can you not? thank you forjoining us in giving us— london? how can you not? thank you forjoining us in giving us your - forjoining us in giving us your insight on such a wide range of things. it is connected, how what is happening in ukraine affects inflation and what is happening in the economy and it has been great to see you stitch it altogether. wasn't it nice to see those pictures of some good cheer, as we say goodbye to you for another week? there is not always that much good news around whether we are thinking about ukraine or the prospect of sorting out strikes in the nhs, as vivek from thejunior doctors out strikes in the nhs, as vivek from the junior doctors committee was saying, they have resolved to keep at it and make fair demands that the government and the nurses union is still locked in dispute, although some unions have agreed to the government pay deal. all the while, the conservatives and labour are trying to persuade you that they are trying to persuade you that they are the ones with a proper plan for the future of the nhs. i have said it before and i will say it again, until we see and understand more of what are political parties would do about caring for the elderly and vulnerable with social care, there will still be question marks about what they can achieve. we will keep trying to fill in the blanks every single sunday. you can catch up with anything you missed on the iplayer. i look forward to seeing you here same time, next week. goodbye. live from london, this is bbc news. turkey's first—ever presidential run—off election is under way — as voters decide who can curb the country's rampant inflation and tackle the cost—of—living crisis. and these are live pictures from istanbul — as nearly 200,000 polling stations are open across the country for more than 64 million people who are eligible to vote. russia unleashes a wave of air strikes on kyiv overnight in what officials say appear to be the largest drone attack on the ukrainian capital since the start of the war.