instead, he will be sitting in a federal courthouse on trial for federal charges, while republican voters decide if this is the man they want to nominate. we'll have more on the federal case in just a little bit including all the politics and what it means. but, there was another major legal development involving the ex president today as well. big legal day. we've got some big news out of georgia, this afternoon involving trump's white house chief of staff mark meadows. now, we all know meadows in his position as trump's right-hand man was -- this telling the attempted coup. his own top aide told the january six committee as much, including meadows apparent role in the plan for trump to lead his followers to the capitol for the insurrection itself. >> on january 3rd, mr. -- had approach me knowing that mark had raised the process of going up to the capitol on january 6th. mr. cipollone and me had a brief private conversation where he said to me we need to make sure this does not happen, this would be a legally terrible idea for us, we have seriously concerned if we go up to the capitol that day. he then urged me to continue relaying that to mr. meadows. it's my understanding that mr. cipollone thought that mr. meadows was indeed pushing this along with the president. >> remember how eye-popping that testimony "pat" cipollon was? won the january six committee initially got kicked off its investigation, mark meadows complied. he handed over more than 6000 pages of documents and communications it. seemed he was participating. but then, he probably did not a one 80. he said she's -- refusing to testify before the committee. meadows then went basically radio silent for a long time. we did not know what he was up to. he just as special counsel jack smith federal investigation began to lead up, leading to rampant speculation both amongst trump's inner circle and as well as many legal experts that he was cooperating with smith's office and that was why he was so quiet. his refusal to comment about anything also -- a speculation. >> how you testified before the grand jury? >> i don't talk about anything [inaudible] >> do you feel that it's appropriate the investigation? >> in august, meadows was not indicted in jack smith's federal case and he wasn't named as an unindicted coconspirator either. but, meadows was indicted in georgia which means after months of keeping a very low profile, hustling away for nbc reporters, he is back in the public eye whether he likes or not. last week, meadows popped back up with this mugshot from an atlanta jail. today, he was in court for the first time testifying and being cross examined for nearly five hours in the hearing to move his trial to federal court. this is the first public defense of metals actions on around the attempt to steal the 2020 election. on the stand, meadows justified his attempts to pressure state officials to overturn the results of the election by saying he fielded so many calls from state lawmakers he, quote, felt like my phone number was plastered in every bathroom in america. that is quite a visual from mark meadows. and, he insisted that he was acting solely in his capacity as trump's chief of staff when he worked to overturn the election. same quote, i don't know that i did anything that was outside my scope as chief of staff. okay, let us pause without a moment, because i've served two presidents and six chiefs of staff. obviously, none of those six were calling secretary of state to overturn elections or trying to find dead voters either, thousands of them. but, it does not take a legal experts to know it's not a job of the chief of staff, north of the job of the chief of staff to interfere with the presidential election under the guides of, quote, making sure elections are accurate, as he argued today. which, by the way, it's worth noting, he defines i was making sure his boss won. so, what he is arguing is that the job of the white house chief of staff includes contacting state election officials to change the outcome of the election against the will of the people. that is simply nonsensical. to me, that's just a ridiculous argument entries. but, i'm not a lawyer and the question is, will this legal argument helped move this case back to federal courts or two federal courts? fortunately, i have a lot of legals with me tonight. katie fang has been inside the courtroom as it unfolds. she certain insistent -- miami florida and is now the host of the katie phang msnbc. katie i, know it's been a long day. thank you so much for being with me tonight. so set the scene for us. first of, almost the moonlight in the courtroom today? former chief of staff taking time is obviously a big deal. >> so, i don't to be overly dramatic because we did know there wasn't reasonable possibility that mark meadows would have to take the stand to testify his offense today. why? he had the burden of proof to be able to tell the court when it won to federal court. but, there was an audible gasp when the first witness was called was mark meadows, and he was on the stand for hours. it was incredible things he was a very calm, very ameagle demeanor. -- a nation of youth his own lawyer but even on cross examination by the d. a.'s attorney. her name is ana krause and she's actually special counsel. but, jen, you know is really notable about the fact that, i'm a former prosecutor, i'm also done colonel defense work, to see a criminal defendant take the stand while he has a criminal case pending and testify for more than four or five hours was stunning. but, the argument i was trying to be advance and we heard it keenly during the closing arguments at the very end of this entire very long day, was his attorney said to the judge, there is basically no bounds to the work that chief of staff does and that basically us lonely peons i don't under china perez shall on's of white house administrations that we don't understand that chief of staff -- possible to keep bus happy his boss being donald trump. the state really advance some very key points quickly, jim, one, how is it possible that mark meadows can say he was doing all of the common he did. under the color of his office. but, at the same time trying to say that all the stuff he did was protect it in the political -- for completely legally and consistent of the logically inconsistent. -- the other thing, jen, that was really doubles this. this was kind of a little bit of a preview into what fani willis has in store for the 19 points in the case. there is an email that was introduced to evidence today as an exhibit. it's an email that never made that indictment that multi page indictment. it was used for cross-examination of mark meadows to impeach him. mark meadows said, i had nothing to do with the fake elector schemes. if anything came to me about alternate electors and pass it along to the campaign. then, the d. a.'s office whipped up this email from mark meadows to jason miller -- december 2020. mark meadows himself forwarded a kenneth chesebro november 2020 member to jason miller and said let's talk about this. jason miller said yes absolutely we will. so, why is the chief of staff of then president trump discussing a fake electors scheme memo with jason miller who was only a part of the trump campaign? the other thing they have today that was interesting is the relocation of the big lie. the big lie failed time and time again for donald trump and fourth jen but today had read its ugly head again because it came out through rough raffensperger and also threw a lawyer for the trump campaign who does fight for the campaign. we do not have a ruling, judge told mr. meadows hey if i'm going to give you a ruling by september six you have to go to the rim and i'm not going to stop the state. that was a take away at the end of hours of court today. >> ayman, katie, you are in their hours today and mark meadows testified for five hours for georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger also testified. what do we hear from him today and that really stuck out for you? you know he was really quick to say that there was no fraud in georgia. there are not thousands of dead people and thousands of convicted felons voting. he made it clear that he actually stayed away from mark meadows. we heard testimony from brad that there was repeated attempts by mark meadows to contact brad raffensperger. again, why would a white house chief of staff be trying to conduct the secretary of state to sort of calls? they are eventually was the call from january 2nd 2021 and there were tons of testimony about them. brad raffensperger made a very clear, he thought it was inappropriate for somebody like mark meadows to be actually calling cam to get involved in this. he thought that, you know what, i'm not going to bother to respond, but he did that call and said very clearly during the call to donald trump as well as mark meadows and donald trump's lawyers, look, i cannot help you. there's nothing i can be able to do. so, brad raffensperger testified on behalf of the state of georgia today, and it was consistent with the testimony he's given to the 16 committee and two other investigations. >> katie phang, stick where you are. i know you had a long day. but we want to hear more from you. i did want to bring in a couple other legals to join you. court service chief of criminal division for -- and washington d. c.. she's also co-host of the excellent podcast, the prosecuting donald trump i, listen to it every week. shang who is a former federal prosecutor who served as counsel to attorney general janet reno will join me now. mary, let me start with you because i think we're all trying to understand why mark meadows wants so badly to move this trial to a federal courthouse. you testified for five hours to try and at that happen. so, why? >> he clearly thinks he's going to have a better shot at getting this case dismissed in federal court. you know, he's making with a federal officer based removal he's arguing he was a federal officer acting within the scope of an color of his official duties. and, he has a plausible federal defense. that is the standard for removal. i think he figures a federal judge is more likely not to just let him record the case, but on his motion to dismiss what he had already filed, he wants to, he wants the case dismissed because he says he has complete immunity, essentially for the same reasons. he's claiming he was a federal officer who is doing this within the scope of his duties, authorized under federal guard and the constitution and then he was only doing what was necessary and proper. that is the test. as we've been discussing, a lot of what he is doing i think many of us would say we are not within, were not authorized by federal law or the constitution and what you're doing is not necessarily a proper to execute your job. he wants to basically be as katie phang said, as chief of staff i do absolutely anything my boss want me to do and that is all within the scope of my job. i get immunity for all of that, and i even get a gun or jail free card. >> i work for six chief of staff, you don't trust your middleburg lobbed allot. us on how it works. i think it's worth stating many times. so, mark meadows argument as katie very summarized very well there, he's basically argue that the -- was protecting election integrity. never mind he was trying to overturn the outcome, but i think that was absurd, what is the legal, what do you think the legal argument? there >> it does not fall within the job of the executive branch to do that. that's not to the state. i think secretary of state raffensperger seems to have a better concept of what this role was supposed to be. it is risky out as we've heard from him to take the stand and to mary's point there was a lot of -- one other strategic region though is the kind of dry run. a lot of his arguments for the removal are the same as his defense. and, if he wins removal that's a strong signal to him that, hey, this might work as my actual defense. if he gets slammed -- >> it's a strong signal to others as well? >> absolutely. >> want to move to federal. court >> absolutely. he gets landon thunders on the strong signal that it might not work out too well he might have to reconsider his strategy. i thought this testimony today though was more effective as a factual innocent defense saying it was not my fault i had to do this for my boss. trump didn't help him too much in a legal definition of what a job description. was >> i feel a lot of people from republican and democratic and nutrition status on what you do. >> katie, i want to also see ask you about the strategy of prosecutors playing for clips from that now infamous phone call with brad raffensperger. you are in the courtroom, how did that feel, what do you think their strategies was in doing that? >> so, it's literally put mark meadows voice up again in front of the judge. i want to know, this is an evidential hearing. during the course of that evidentiary hearing, the judge sits as not only the fact finder, but also the person who knows the law. the jurors of the fact finders and they apply the facts to the law in this instance judge jones sitting in his capacity was also determining the credibility of the witnesses. so, he saw mark meadows firsthand that the witness box, but then brad raffensperger during his direct state played those four clips and they were clips directly from that, quote, perfect call that donald trump happened on january 2nd 2021. but, we heard mark meadows saying we. and i want to emphasize this. mark meadows uses the word we all the time. when he was on direct -- lawyers, he said oh that just my very gracious we have not trying to take credit for something i learned as being a politician. we do this, we do that, but it really didn't mean me, i wasn't included. but then on this call into the clips, you heard mark meadows say, well we would like to make sure we can get our hands on that voter data and we'd like to see if we can get this taken care of kind of thing. it does not, it's strange quickly to say that when i'm saying,, we if i'm mark meadows i'm not including myself. i'm supporting myself in the trump campaign. he tried to make sure was very clear, he had, quote, no official or unofficial -- trump campaigns but he really took a flyer trying to convince federal judge that there are no bounce to his role as a chief of staff. he literally said i have no bounds to the roles of chief of staff. >> katie phang, the moral here is that audio recordings and email records can come back to bite you in the courtroom. thank you so much for joining me. this evening, we have so much more legal stuff to discuss. -- stay with me, so hang with us. coming up, donald trump's political counter is looking pretty packed early next year. so, how will today's decision by a d. c. judge impact that? why are other judges planning to take a backseat? that is coming up, next. when i first learned about my dupuytren's contracture, my physician referred me to a hand specialist. and i'm glad he did, because when i took the tabletop test, i couldn't lay my hand flat anymore. the first hand specialist i saw only offered surgery. so, i went to a second hand specialist who also offered nonsurgical options - which felt more right for me. so, what i'd say to other people with dupuytren's contracture is this: don't wait —find a hand specialist trained in nonsurgical options, today. >> as of this morning, we now i found mine at findahandspecialist.com. have a date for the start of what is possibly the highest states trial in history. donald j trump's criminal trial for trying to steal the election. it's gonna start on march 4th, which is also the day before super tuesday. this means republican front runner will not be rolling supporters before the day of 15 states vote. instead, he will be sitting in a federal courtroom in d. c.. so, for a guy who spent the majority of his life between the narrative and almost always getting away with things like say, joking about grabbing women or asking russia to find hillary clinton's emails in 2016, donald trump has never faced criminal consequences or real accountability. he doesn't even expect to. i mean, remember he joked about how supporters would still like him even if he shot someone in the middle of manhattan. that seems like it is changing. the ex president won a trial date in 2026, and today he got one, two years earlier in 2024. federal judge tanya chutkan flatly rejected his attorneys plea in court this morning, judge tanya chutkan repeatedly asked john moreau to come about it compromised trial date. the trump lawyer refused. so, judge tanya chutkan set went two months after the special counsel's office requested. trump seems to have lost control. his entire life has been -- but this time is in charge of producing the show. joining once again our two veteran prosecutors, thank you for sticking with me. mary mccord and shan wu. i want to start with just how firm this march 4th date is. as people are circling their calendar, trump says he wants to appeal that they, he cannot do that, could still change? >> i could still change. i mean it, wasn't just the trial that the judge tanya chutkan set. she said other date, the date for pretrial motions, a date for government to overturn his witness list, the date for a turn over his exhibit. so, there's a whole bunch of intro dates in the schedule. there could be legitimate reasons either on behalf of mr. trump or the governments for one or two of those states to slip by a day or two factually legal reasons not bring him into court to ask. could be reasons for march 4th of a day or two are weaker to. but, it's not going to slip to postulation. this is going to happen and it's going to happen before the election. i think it's going to happen before the convention. but, people shouldn't be alarmed if something happens and there is a day here -- >> if it's march 7th or eighth. >> exactly. >> one of the references he is he can't actually appeal the dates but he can delay it. his lawyers can't through trial motions and mary was referencing, what are some of those look like one of the examples of what they can try to do? >> i think he will's have some issues with genuine scheduling issues. for example, they might have conflicting other appearance states in the other cases, he might actually be scheduled for campaign appearance which is not going to give him a magic bullet for. >> so, let me to stop you there for a minute, sorry to interrupt you, if he has a campaign rally is not a good enough reason to delay a trial? >> probably not, but it could delay things leading up to the trial. that is to key to try and make some of those deadlines to get the lead so that might cause the actual trial date to move a bit. all else feeling in, might be a good time for >> so we can't get that. de >> fuller muscle, schedule a lot of relies. >> whenever the date starts, how long should we expect? you don't know the exact amount but what is the scope of the amount of time that this kind of trial can take place? >> i think the government has set 4 to 6 weeks and, you know, that's because they've taken a look at what witnesses expect to call, what exhibits expect to introduce, they've made an estimate about cross-examination time. but, even that isn't svm based on civil affairs now. there could be more people cooperative by then. there could be some legal rulings that change what evidence is invincible and what is. not, so there's all kinds of things that could affect that. but, i do think we're looking at at least a month-long trial. if we account and also dress election is going to take time. they're going to have questionnaires to make sure people could be biased and haven't prejudge the case. that could take a while in a case like. this >> that we could take a little bit longer? >> right. they would've already done those jury questionnaires before march 4th, and they're hoping to actually swear the jury on march 4th. but, if they have a hard time getting enough people, you know, that could push off a little bit. >> i would disagree with chandelier the judge is going to give a pass for things like champagne. rallies -- >> seems like a bit of a. give >> yeah, i think she was pretty clear to the, people have jobs when your criminal defendants that's part of your job. >> you might miss a plane. >> he might miss a. plain >> don't give him ideas. >> he has his own plane. >> he can't really miss. it judge tanya chutkan so she was, quote, watching carefully for anything that might affect or poison the jury pool. this really stuck out to me today. she says that if lauren tends to pull d. c. resident as part of a change venue motion he might inform the courts. what does that mean and kind of what might you do? what does she mean by that? >> that's really the big looming question here is how do you interpret all the stuff he says i was trying to poison the jury pool. and the normal case all of it would be tainting the jury pool. here, issues trying to balance the idea of the island campaigning as the right to say i'm innocent et cetera. that is if he keeps going really over the line with that, doj will be forced to bring up to the judge's intention, the judge will have to -- i don't think should be shy about ruling on that i think he'll give him a couple of passes. but, i don't think that doj is very champing at the -- because they're so worried about being hit on the first amendment concerns. >> there also were it'll look like political persecution which is what he is running on right now. >> so, judge chutkan unlimited scribe is not messing around, there's lots of ways to describe her, but watching the ruling this morning and how she's behaved to date, what is your take, what do you read from it and how she's going to operators trial? >> she is committed to treating him like any other criminal defendant. he is already not being treated exactly like any other criminal defendants, but, she wants to do so as much as possible. i think what she did today, like, judge tanya chutkan was a criminal defense attorney. she has defended cases unprepared for trial herself many many times in her career. never defending somebody like mr. trump, but, defending complicated criminal cases. so, she is able to really assess how long it will take in a case like this to get ready. i think she's bringing all of her experience, both as a criminal defense attorney and as a judge to bring here and try to give him, will not try, but she will give him a fair trial, try to respect his rights to due process, but not let him run the show. >> before i let you go, shan wu, presented likelihood trump will have any success or lawyers trying to move this trial out of washington d. c. in which they say they want to? >> i think very low. >> there are some serious symbolism here obviously it's blocks from here, is where the interactions walks by and it's where it should be seen. thank you mary mccord and shan wu forcing with me for two blocks this evening. i really appreciate your time. still ahead, donald trump isn't just running for president, he is also running to stay out of prison. that is what his campaign team is basically telling each other. schedul meet the portable blender we can barely keep in stock. blendjet 2 gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on-the-go. so you can blend up a mouthwatering smoothie, protein shake, or latte wherever you are! recharge quickly with any usb port. best of all, it even cleans itself! just blend water with a drop of soap. what are you waiting for? 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[bell dings] for a great low rate, go with the general. candidate under indictment, i've done three presidential campaigns and i think it's pretty safe to say a federal trial for the day of super tuesday which by the way is a huge state in the nominating process is not exactly a campaign managers dream. nearly 900 delegates across 15 states in one territory will be up for grabs at the. amounting to more than a third of all the pledged delegates heading to milwaukee for the republican national convention angelo. now, trump is still far away the front runner buy multiples of double digits. even if he slips a little bit after the debate according to recent emerson college poll. the first four contests that happened in january and february are also the ones that typically build momentum. so, it is entirely possible that the race will be most likely wrapped up by the time each super tuesday comes around. but, it is also entirely possible that it won't be completely wrapped up. with crucial deadlines and campaigning leading up to super tuesday, it's a mix for a fraud calendar for the ex president and a potential opening for rivals. mueller as communications director for -- 2016 campaign. he's now a writer at large for the bulwark and he joins me now. okay, term, so you've been in the room for planning for super tuesday. i know trump is a little bit of a different candidates, but, lay out for all of us, what would he be doing in the days leading up to an on super tuesday if he was not scheduled to be in court? >> yeah, usually you'd be trying around trying to hit as many other states as possible. the super tuesday is usually the moment when you're most on the road. you know, you want to maybe get me in nashville there and that little rock and then make it down to austin and maybe overnight in denver i mean this is where the sprint to that big day happens. so, obviously being in court in d. c. is the ideal for donald trump. the only thing that he's going for him conceivably and this scenario is that, as you alluded to, this thing could be kind of roughed up by then. this is why it is so incumbent upon his components to try and take a bite out of him now, to try and get momentum now to try and consolidate now. and it established republican guys think i will put all of the afternoon hampshire. so, if trump wins for three of those first, or four of those first for you laid out, this looks more like al gore and george bush in 2000 weather is really that much of a contest. it looks at the recent campaigns working on. >> seeing these states today, i was thinking it sort of disincentivizes the second and third tier candidates for dropping out because they're like maybe there's a chance, look at this calendar. so, you've also been in the strategy rooms, tim, i mean one of the conversations even if this is not what they're saying publicly right now and tim scott and nikki haley and mike pence. we know they're in chris christie camp. some of these candidates, one of the conversation between advisers and -- but as dave said today happening? >> i can tell you what they are and the sanders camp because the super pac advisor is with us in iowa a couple weeks ago. we discussed this very point characterize the conversation. basically what he was saying was that they look at this calendar, this is before we knew this state but, they're speculating, what if you know if you have a trial in march and an eight-week trial, seven-week trial, whatever. that takes you to, mayor early june. this is before the convention. what happens if he's convicted before the convention? they are gaming that stuff out and of the santa super pack said to me that the delicate game is something that they are thinking about because of that scenario were maybe in a world where he finished third in iowa and for the new hampshire and different worlds he might drop outs, maybe you don't dropout. you actually have the effort to try and consolidate against trump if you're ron desantis or if you're tim scott of these folks because you're like, hey, let me try and rock up delegates because -- getting convicted before the convention, who knows what's going to happen and having delegates will be useful. so, i do think that that in some ways in a couple of ways it incentivized to some of these folks to stay with them at a time when they should be consolidated. >> so, the super pac because you referenced this, the super pac result of the debate memo that lead where it was possible -- run sands i'd never seen that out on what is talking about. do you think sense you talk to the super pac advisor that they could start being tougher on trump on these criminal indictments before candidates are and the candidates can just depending on the thing about? >> maybe. i think they're trying to test that out and figure that out, what could work without turning you. -- super pac is and the boomers back true kindly because the voters get mad when they're being means mr. trump. i think trying to figure out what is a way that maybe you can make a practical argument. we were talking about the debate, jen, i was saying that this is a one thing that was missing for me for this debate. look, i want you to make the moral case against trump. even if you're not going to make it, i want -- practical case, how can we nominate somebody who has this challenger that you keep putting up on the screen there? it is just asinine. it's self, you're doing self >> if you've been listening closely to the republican candidates for president, you might think that we are living in a post apocalyptic hellscape. last week's debate, to the contenders described america as basically a bleak banana republic. >> it's not mourning in america. we live in a dark moment. the reality is we are crying waving this country. we also have a mental health epidemic in this country. we are in the middle of a national identity crisis. >> our country is in decline. >> these hollowed out cities, this is a symptom of americas decline. you will talk about a country in the klein, you have the cartels controlling a lot of part of your southern border. we will send joe biden back to his basements and we will reverse the decline of this country. >> they also sound a whole lot to like the republican front runner, who during a long conversation with a certain former fox news host described current leadership as, quote, fastest and radical left lunatics who are destroying our country. he also ominously warrant, quote, there is a level of passion that i've never seen, there's a level of hatred i've never seen, and that's probably a bad combination. so, to sum that all up, according to the top of the republican field, america's feelings because radical left lunatics are destroying our country. now, there is cause for concern in this country, just not all in the way they're describing the way they think, i guess. look at the tragedy in jacksonville florida this weekend, where a white man targeting black people shot and killed three victims at $1 general store. we have seen the cancers of racism and gun violence colliding. we saw it there again this weekend. these are issues that none of the republican candidates mentioned last week's debate and frankly have not really mentioned much since. of course, there are some who think that darkness and calls for violence are good politics. there are many moments in history that prove that there's another way. today, we are remembering the march on washington and martin ducking junior i have a dream speech. 60 years ago, hundreds of thousands of people came to the capitol to hear dr. king talk about an imperfect nation, one for which he still had great hope. that's also reminds me of where i was when i was fortunate to be 15 years ago today. listening on the side of the stage to the last president to win a second term, reflecting on dr. king's words as he accepted the democratic nomination. >> the man and woman who gather there could have heard many things. -- anger and discord. it could've been tall to succumb to the fear and frustrations of so many dreams deferred. with the people heard, people of every creed and color from every walk of life is that in america, our destiny is indestructible linked, that together, our dreams can be one. >> republican candidates may think that grievance and fear and division make for good politics. but, as many points in history tell quite a different story. what wins out often in the end it's a vision for the future. not as dark as an complaints. i'm going to talk about how president biden's campaign is employing that strategy would campaign manager julie chávez rodríguez, coming up next. we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of 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stronger than ever, manufacturing jobs are coming home. i speed computer chips are getting made right here. america is leading the world in clean energy. there are some who say america is feeling, not to joe biden, he believes our best days are ahead because he believes in the american people. >> those who bet against america learning are learning how wrong they are, it's never been a good bet to bet against america. >> julie chávez rodríguez is the campaign manager for president biden's reelection campaign, previously she was a senior adviser to president biden, and most also a special assistant to president obama. she joins me now. first of all, i am so grateful you are here. you are running a campaign that is a very busy job, and you're moving to delaware. so, thank you for being here with me tonight. so, i want to start with some of the news we learned today. you are very savvy political operator, obviously are running a campaign. i want to get your reaction to the prospect of criminal trial starting on the day before super tuesday. >> look, jen, thank you one for having this evening and it's just i think we've seen so much incredible support and i definitely understand that those are matters that will continue to play out in the courts and obviously for their campaign they contend with. but, what we're really focused on is making sure that the american people really know what president biden has done, what vice president biden has done to be able to support the american voter, what they're doing to lower drug prices to lower cost for family and to make sure as you saw in the ad you just showed that we're really reminding folks that america is back and that this president and vice presidents have made a tremendous investment, not just in the country but in our people. >> i know you're probably watching the republican debate last week. even as you are of course talking about and for change the american people all of the things president biden has done, what's stuck out to you from that debate as you are watching it? what was a moment that stuck out to you? >> you know, i think for me it's really saying that it was consistent race, a real extreme agenda. what we saw on stage was maybe not necessarily certain candidates but definitely their agenda and their policies were front and center. it was a real extreme conversation about banning abortion and having national ban on abortion, being able to take different approaches to addressing such critical issues. it wasn't about real solutions for the american people. that is what we're really focused on, is making sure that we're communicating that contrast and what we saw on the debate stage again was a really real race towards this extreme agenda that we continue to see from so many gop primary candidates right now. it's out of touch with the american voter. >> it's so extreme, and we know that it's something that's not a real winning agenda or winning sort of campaign. >> i know you guys even out on abortion after the debate last week, it's always telling where campaign spend money because it's what's six out in your mind and where you think you're gonna have the biggest impact. how do you combat this argument which also drives me insane, that many of these republican candidates are making that democratic candidates want, they support more abortions and third trimester, they support abortion until 40 weeks till birth? >> it's not accurate -- >> what do you wish people were saying out there? >> i wish that people really understood that the president and the vice president are focused on restoring fundamental freedoms for the american people. what we saw in the decision was i think a real eye-opener for so many women across the country, for so many families across the country. all of a sudden, today in america, my younger niece has less rights than i do and that is what people are really starting to see and understand about how it extreme their agenda is. what the president and vice president are focused on is restoring roe v. wade and ensuring that becomes a law of the land because that's an important right that we have fought for and we need to continue to fight for. >> one of the moments that stood out to me in the debate was when the majority of candidates raise their hand and said they would support donald trump even if he was convicted of a crime. no, i know you're focused on a positive proactive agenda that the president is implementing which is hugely important. what impact the marking public. what was going to your head in that moment? >> well, you know i think it just shows that all of them are really trying to take the more extreme position and really trying to sort of take that race for the maga base and take again extreme positions that are at a touch with voters. by saying that climate change is a hoax as one example, it's just absolutely out of touch with the reality that we are facing as a nation and that we are facing as a world. so, i think we want to continue to just to make sure that we are really showing how extreme those positions are and that they're all coming from the same kind of policy agenda that we saw continued to lose an election after election. i think one thing for us that's really exciting in addition to seeing that sort of enthusiasm for our campaign is knowing that in the last elections, democrats have outperformed by 10%. that is something we are going to continue to grow and continue to build on. >> that's an important statistic. i don't think a lot of people know. now, there's a lot of backseat drivers when it comes to running political campaigns. i don't to tell you, you're probably living that. i know that from working in the white house. what do you say to democrats who say, the president and the campaign, they should all be talking about trump's legal issues and these criminal indictments much more a missed opportunity? >> you know, i think the president when he ran for office in the first place was really adamant about ensuring that the justice department was an independent department and that they were able to execute effectively in the ways that they needed to. so, we are going to continue to ensure that the justice department has the ability to do their job and what we are going to continue to focus on is just again the accomplishments of this president vice president have achieved, thanks to again incredible legislation that we've been able to pass. but also the choices before voters right now. really what's at stake in this election. you know when we're dealing with the republican field that is scapegoating immigrants that's talking about banning books still continues to focus on the national abortion ban, we just know those are out of touch with so many voters across the country. >> so, every campaign looks different, because they're happening in different moments in time and you're trying to win to state the obvious. which do people expect about how the campaign will be different from president biden 's election campaign back in 2020? >> we're really excited to be able to be headquartered in delaware as well many folks to know it really is just a home for president biden that's where he's raised his family. it really reflects so many of the core values that are true to who he is when it comes to faith and family and hard work. so, being able to be in a city that's really exudes those values is one that's really exciting. but also, the partnership that we have with the dnc. i think that really is in the playbook were writing. one that we're continuing to build upon because we know that we need to not just elect president biden and vice president harris, we need to continue to elect democrats up and down the ballot and we know that kind of partnership is a real winning strategy for us right now. >> julie chávez rodríguez, running the presidential campaign, not an easy job, thank you so much for coming, in for joining me tonight. good luck with your move to wellington. look for to getting updates in the future. that is all in this monday night. watch with -- everything the noon eastern this -- casual episode of inside with jen psaki every thursday exclusively on peacock. the rachel maddow show starts right now. for real, man. are you suggesting there might e be some transcript feeder coming up? >> there might be. >> you are correct. >> i can't wait to see what youc say about it. ab >> thank you, jen. much appreciated. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. really happy to have you here. so he was discharged from the u.s. air force in 1959 after rg heroic service frankly. heroic and unusual service. you'll see what i mean from this headline that ran about him in "ebony" magazine in may 1959. gi risks d 6

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