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mitch mcconnell said about donald trump just hours after the attack on the u.s. capitol. all this is coming out. how the republican leader plans to cut into trump's influence on the party moving forward. plus, a new series of text messages sheds more light on efforts to overturn the 2020 election. including talk of invoking martial law to help trump stay in power. and the former president held in contempt for failing to comply with a subpoena from new york state. ordered to pay $10,000 a day until he hands over the documents being sought. we will have the latest on that. also this morning, the debate over free speech rages on as the world's richest person, elon musk, prepares to become the sole owner of twitter. does that mean former president trump will return to the platform? and dr. deborah birx will be our guest, as she speaks out about her experience inside the trump white house during covid. including her efforts to clean up the former president's own disinformation. remember disinfectant? yeah, the bleach, injecting the bleach. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, april 26th. joe has the morning off, but along with willie and me, we have columnist and associate editor for the "washington post" david ignatius. "new york times" washington bureau chief, elisabeth bumiller. former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor. the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. let's dive right in. russian missiles rain down on at least five train stations across ukraine yesterday. why is that important? it was just hours after top white house officials reportedly used the railways to meet with the country's president in kyiv. at least one worker was killed and four others were injured, according to ukrainian officials, when the strikes hit the stations in the western and central parts of the country. the barrage came just a short time after u.s. secretary of state antony blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin traveled by train to a diplomatic meeting with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. moscow later confirmed the attack, saying the strikes targeted train stations where weapons were being imported from nato countries. willie? . meanwhile, what appears to be a third mass grave site near mariupol. new satellite images released by the american firm planet shows a plot of land 5 miles outside that besieged port city, where trenches were expanded between march 24th and april 24th. according to the company, the gravesite was about 200-feet long at the beginning and grew to more than 650 feet by this past sunday. in a radio interview, the city's mayor say the images align with information the ukrainian government has, that russian forces have been using mass graves to bury civilians killed in the seaside port. at times, having the city's residents dig the graves in exchange for food. meanwhile, thousands of ukrainian fighters and civilians remain trapped in a steel plant in the city. ukrainian fighter holed up inside the factory yesterday described the desperate situation they're facing. speaking to the "new york times," he said, the russians are, quote, trying to wipe us off the face of the earth. he appealed to the world to rescue the civilians and fighters stuck inside that plant. ambassador taylor, let me begin with you, just about what we're seeing in mariupol again. mass grave sites. we believe that's what we're looking at there. then the anecdote from the mayor there, that civilians are being made to dig the trenches, dig these mass graves in which their neighbors will be dumped, in exchange for food. this is our worst fear, isn't it? we knew bucha was bad once we got inside there. now we have eye on mariupol, it looks even worse. >> it does, willie. it looks terrible. the mayor said he thinks anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 people have been killed already there. even as we think it can't get worse, it does. the amazing thing is that the troops there, the ukrainian soldiers, have been holed up in there and fighting back, holding down a lot of the russian forces that are trying to overtake that city. that city has outsized importance for the russians, and that city is also a symbol now for the ukrainians. the ukrainians will see mariupol as a hero city, and it will inspire them to fight harder and longer and they will prevail, willie. >> david ignatius, what do you make of the state of ukraine right now? we have the top u.s. diplomat, the top u.s. representative on defense showing up in kyiv, showing their support, standing in front of piles and boxes of aid that they point to, to say "we are here." there is an ambassador coming to town, which of course we want to talk to you about, ambassador taylor. they're reinstating a diplomatic front there. is there more of a comfort level that the u.s. is having with perhaps injecting ukraine with heavier weapons, with a stronger sense of support than there was when this war began? >> i thought, mika, you could hear the sense of resolve and confidence in secretary blinken's voice as he left kyiv. in secretary austin's voice similarly. blinken said flatly, bluntly, russia is failing in ukraine. ukraine is succeeding. austin went on to state our war aims, if you will, in more clarity than i've heard from any u.s. official. our goal in this war is to see russia weakened to the point that it can't do this again. that's a stronger statement, i'm told deliberately, than we've made in the past. are we succeeding in that? as i ask about the effects of our economic sanctions, the two companies that make tanks in russia have had to stop production. no more tanks coming out. the companies that make missiles that they're firing at such numbers -- they've fired 1,000 ballistic missiles at ukraine. they're running out of supplies. so what we heard yesterday, after this face-to-face visit by our top military and diplomatic officials was a kind of resolve with ukraine that i haven't heard before. >> we'll get to the diplomatic changes in a moment, but there are parallel tracks happening in ukraine. it is hard to cover them all in the right way. the mass graves, the atrocities. your reporters are covering them across the country. it is something that, at the same time, is hard to bear. it's still happening now. >> well, to answer that question, to continue what david was saying, i think it made the u.s. much more resolved to go after the russians. i think that was also the difference we heard from lloyd austin. this is now not just a war to help a young democracy, it is a war to take on russia. it was pretty explicit in those comments. the u.s. has been much, much more aggressive with weapons, with aid, and with rhetoric in the last couple days. it is now much more of a proxy fight between the u.s. and russia, going back to the old cold war. >> willie? >> if we talk about the aims of the united states and this war right now, as david just pointed out, it was a pretty strong statement from defense secretary austin, where he said, we want to weaken russia to the point where, militarily, it can't do the things it's been doing in ukraine. headline in "the new york times," "u.s. vows to dull russia's capacity to act militarily." what does that mean as a practical question? does it mean more weapons? does it mean more american intervention? >> two key words came out of the blinken/austin news conference over the beak end. one we talked about, the idea of weakening. that's from austin. the other is winning. they said ukraine can win this war. it is no longer managing defeat or ceding some territory to russia. they believe ukraine can win. it is a couple things. first of all, a number of the western sanctions really haven't taken hold yet. the longer this war goes on, the longer that will build up. the russian economy that much more decimated. they'll have that much more trouble fueling the war effort, particularly if europe continues to wean its off of russian energy. yes, in the short term, it is about funneling as many weapons as possible, military equipment from the u.s., from the nato allies, into ukraine, to fortify the ukrainian fighters for the oncoming battle in the east. officials i was talking to last night say that these strikes that the russians are hitting fuel depots, hitting train stations, yes, some might have been a message sent in the wake of the visit from the two cabinet secretaries, but it is also about sort of softening the ground ahead of the coming onslaught. ahead of the ground invasion which they think is still a few weeks away, when the terrain is more conducive to tanks rolling through and the russians themselves have also been able to resupply. the ukrainians, as much as the russians are getting ready, ukrainians are, too, with the help of western weapons. >> yeah. not to underestimate the destruction that the russians have bared upon much of ukraine's key cities they're trying to get at. we reported yesterday on president biden's pick for the next ambassador to ukraine. the current ambassador to slovakia, bridget brink. if confirmed, she will fill a role left vacant for more than two years. the last ambassador, of course, marie yovanovitch, was pushed out by former president donald trump in 2019 when his legal team, namely rudy giuliani, began pressuring ukrainian officials to dig up dirt on hunter biden. i don't think we spent enough time about all of that and how, in any way, it connects to where we are today. but let's talk about the ambassador going back to ukraine. i feel like that is an incredibly important, symbolic message. >> mika, you are right. it is an important, symbolic message. it is also a substantive message. to have a confirmed ambassador out there, ambassador confirmed by the senate and has full support of the president, that is important. let's also be clear, my deputy while i was there, she's been doing a great job and will be happy to see ambassador brink show up, as well. so it is important to have an ambassador out there to talk face-to-face. it just matters, to be able to do that on a daily basis. >> also, it's sending a message. we're here for the long haul. it is the long game. ukraine is not going anywhere. >> ukraine is not going anywhere. the russians, sadly, are not going anywhere. we are going to support ukraine for the long term, exactly as you say. and the winning message, this is important, ukraine can win this fight. >> david ignatius, i want to get a sense of the ambassador being reinstated, or a new one coming in, actually. you're right, the move and lloyd austin and tony blinken all at the same time, i feel like this is a renewed u.s. energy toward ukraine. also, it's lloyd austin and his words about how ukraine can win this that i thought was striking. >> lloyd austin doesn't speak very often. >> no. >> when he does, it really carries some weight. it did in this case. he was saying something quite extraordinary, that we want to weaken them so they'll never do this again. you wonder what meaning does that have? the british defense secretary, ben wallace yesterday, put out some numbers. this is not ukrainian numbers that are sometimes inflated. these are british numbers. wallace said that russian forces, all of those tactical troops that were sent in, 25% of them are now effectively inoperable. this is the best of the russian army. 25% have been knocked out. 15,000 russian soldiers in the space of these two months have been killed with vastly more wounded. over 1,000 armored vehicles have been taken down. over 60 planes and helicopters. it's just a level of destruction of an army that you just don't see in modern combat. and you wonder why russia is reeling. this is the answer. >> but this is the humiliation of vladimir putin, the sinking of his warship, his troops that are in disarray. they're disorganized. their logistics, by all reports, are deplorable. does putin know this? when you look at the problem of disinformation in russia and why this could drag on, what do we know about what is actually getting to him? and we know a lot of this is not getting to his people, which would really ultimately humiliate him. >> that is a very good question. you know, you always hear that putin doesn't know this. you think, doesn't he have the internet? >> i'm in the sure. >> but he doesn't have the internet. he doesn't have a smartphone. but he's got to know, to some degree, this is not going well. i think this is all about, for the united states, it's all about ukraine's future. moving in the ambassador. moving more diplomats to kyiv. you know, stepping up weapons shipments. stepping up the rhetoric. also just the -- it's just about telling the world that we believe in ukraine. ukraine is going to be here for a long time. we also think ukraine can win. and i think there's a lot the u.s. military is doing that we don't know about, that we'll find out later. how much the u.s. has actually been helping. and i think the early days of the biden administration, when they were worrying about the risks to all of this, that this was going to set off and antagonize putin in some way, there is less concern about that. it is low risk that he might be backed into a corner. you hear less about that now. >> you do. in the beginning, it was almost carefully put, willie. you know, that's up to the ukrainians. or, you know, the ukrainians will decide. you know, kind of like a, let's just keep a little bit of a separation here. then you have finland and sweden looking into nato. switzerland becoming less neutral. the eu stepping up. it feels like the u.s. is finally sort of decided, you know what, it's not just up to the ukrainians. it's up to us, as well. we're here for you. we're sending back in our diplomats. ukraine is here for the long haul, according to the u.s. >> yeah. we saw that in the new package, the aid package last week, of another $800 million, which was just the kind of heavy weaponry that president zelenskyy has been asking for for some time. you heard how happy he was with that shipment. he said more of this, please. it looks like he is going to get it. ambassador taylor, i want to ask you, though, as we talk about weakening, perhaps crippling the russian military so it cannot expand, russia is talking about changing and expanding the war toward moldova. we hear overnight there were a couple of explosions in the breakaway republic in the eastern part of moldova. russia talked explicitly, its commanders said, yes, we want to move along the southern coast of ukraine to get to moldova and, to use their term, liberate the people in that breakaway republic of moldova. what does that tell you about the future of this war? past mariupol, odesa, and perhaps all the way to moldova? >> willie, i'm not sure that represents a new strategy or even a new tactic on the part of the russians. that was a commander, wasn't the commander. you'relooking at the map. that's a long way. they don't have mykolaiv yet. they don't have odesa yet. they're nowhere near -- they don't have the troops or the weapons. david ignatius made the good point, they don't have the soldiers to push that -- in the current fight, they don't have the soldiers in the east in order to take what their prime example is, their prime objective. for them to say they're going all the way to moldova, i don't take it very seriously. >> david ignatius, back to the point with elisabeth about what vladimir putin knows, and i know you want to make a point, but his ships are sunk, generals are killed. he has a friend. he has to know this, right? >> someone is telling the czar. >> who wants to tell him that? >> it's clear that some of this is getting through. i'll give you a good example. there was this claim made about moving the war west, going toward moldova. that'd be a significantly expanded war. you will note that that was stated by the commander but not amplified by any more senior official or by the russian state media. that is a recognition that, for now, this is a completely unrealistic goal. i have been quizzing people at the pentagon, the white house. the answer is they simply don't have the forces. russian amphibious forces are in very poor shape, not ready to stage the kind of landings we're talking about. ukraine's coastal offenses are being now increased substantially. the amount of fire, just think of the amount of fire that will come out from the ukrainian coast. it's enormous. that's a good example of talk that, in the end, the kremlin knows it can't back up. >> all right. former ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, thank you so much for joining us this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," russia's top diplomat is warning about the threat of world war iii breaking out. ukraine's foreign minister will join us to weigh in on that new threat and where negotiations stand with moscow this morning. also, the mayor of warsaw, poland, will be our guest to talk about the huge influx of refugees his city has taken in since the start of the invasion. also ahead, we're digging into some of the never-before-seen text messages between mark meadows and some of donald trump's closest allies, sent before and after the january 6th capitol attack. and twitter has accepted. elon musk's buyout deal, what it means for social media, the disinformation debate, and free speech. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 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>> no, i don't trust elon musk to make twitter better for women at all. i just absolutely don't. if you're asking yourself if this is someone that is going to go to bat for people that are underrepresented, i just don't think that's going to be the case, unfortunately. >> reporter: musk tweeting he hopes even his worst critics will remain on the platform in the name of free speech. >> jo ling kent reporting for us there. jonathan lemire, we've talked a lot about twitter being interesting, splashy, and loud, but not that many americans actually use it and engage with it. watch it maybe from the outside a little bit. what is interesting about this? what is significant, donald trump is the headline. does he get back on? he says he doesn't want to come back on, but the question is, what does it mean to take away some of the guardrails that twitter has put in place. >> there are a few things about this that are interesting. you're right, the audience for twitter is far smaller than, say, facebook. but it is about who uses it. politicians use it. heads of state use it. governments use it. the media uses it. it is a way where news spreads quickly. that matters. there are people yesterday who were raising concerns about the world's richest person now owning this platform. the politics of it are also interesting. musk has become embraced by many on the right. some trump supporters who had walked away from twitter all made a flashy point of rejoining yesterday. the former president said he's not interested. i'm going to fact-check that. he is interested. people around him have said that, yes, at some point, they do expect that he will come back onto twitter. and some feel that -- because it'll take time for the sale to be processed -- that musk will take over potentially late summer or the fall, in time, if trump were to return ahead of the midterms, which would be interesting. it is an october surprise, which could cut one way or the other, for helping or hurting democrats this fall. this will be interesting to see. the move received the blessing of jack dorsey, the founder of twitter, who tweeted overnight in support of the sale. >> mika, obviously, the relative quiet from former president trump has been nice, but if he does go back onto twitter, his thoughts will be out in the light of day. >> yes, as you guys were talking about the midterms, elisabeth was nodding, saying, here we go. your thoughts? >> yes. yes, we will fact-check his plan that he doesn't want to go back to twitter. it'll be hard for the former president to resist. he'll weigh in on the midterms, all the candidates against the democrats, and i think we will be back where we were in 2018 and 2019. i think there's a lot of concern, obviously, among democrats about this. as you see, you know, musk has a lot of conservative supporters. yes, we all believe in free speech, but the guardrails that twitter put up, first of all, there's not that many guardrails anyway. >> exactly. >> those will come down. it's also become, as we saw in the clip, a platform for a lot of misogyny, a lot of -- women get treated badly on twitter. >> hate speech, defamation, misogyny. >> i don't see it changing. >> there is a long process still, so we'll be following it. coming up, testimony versus text messages. what marjorie taylor greene said under oath doesn't match what she reportedly sent to trump's chief of staff in the days after the 2020 election. plus, we have more on a legal loss for the former president. we'll look at what a contempt ruling means in the new york attorney general's civil investigation. $10,000 a day. 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do you find yourself getting confused or lost? >> i think we're going to have to ask for directions. >> now there's help. treasonal. it patches holes in the brain caused by -- get back to destroying your country with confidence, from the makers of neigh-sanex, horse medication for people. >> available at walgreens. >> from jimmy kimmel. a series of newly revealed text messages show how far the trump white house and its allies were willing to go to overturn the 2020 election. the texts were provided to the january 6th committee by former trump white house chief of staff mark meadows and published by cnn. one text message from trump political aide jason miller, sent several days after biden was declared the winner, flagged meadows about an email miller said he sent about dominion voting machines. quote, lots there regarding functionality problems. not much there on dems conspiracy connections. we'll defer to you on whether or not to share full report with potus. potus is hyped up on them, not just from tweets but he called me and justin separately last night to complain. miller there likely talking about justin clark, a trump 2020 campaign lawyer. miller did not respond to request for comment. on november 19th, records show meadows texted georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger to ask him to call the white house. a spokesman for raffensperger said the secretary of state did not recall that text message, but he did recall a december 19th text message also asking him to call the white house. the spokesman said raffensperger thought it was a prank and did not respond. trump got ahold of raffensperger, infamously, on january 2nd when he made the infamous request. >> i only need 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, you recalculated. >> all on tape, january 9th, 2021. there was also communication between meadows and georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor greene. on december 31st, 2020, she texted, in part, good morning, mark. i'm here in d.c. we have to get organized for the 6th. i would like to meet with rudy giuliani again. we didn't get to speak with him long. also, anyone who can help, we are getting a lot of members on board and we need to lay out the best case for each state. again, that's a text message from marjorie taylor greene to mark meadows. on january 17th, green texted meadows again. in our private chat with only members, several are saying the only way to save our republic is for trump to call for martial law. misspelled there. she continued, i don't know on those things. i just wanted you to tell him they stole this election. we all know they will destroy our country next. please tell him to declassify as much as possible, so we can go after biden and anyone else. marjorie taylor greene again there. there were also several text messages sent to meadows on january 6th, as members of congress, donald trump jr., and former chiefs of staff priebus and mulvaney, asked to call off the supporters. the january 6th committee refused to confirm the voracity of the texts. a columnist for the "washington post" is joining us now. reporter for the "washington post," jackie alemany. she's also an msnbc contributor. and pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post," eugene robinson. good morning to you all there in washington. george, let me start with you. none of this is surprising, but it is stunning to see it laid out so explicitly in detail, in real time. a group of people coordinating with the white house, with mark meadows, with the president of the united states, to stage a coup. >> yeah, it is absolutely stunning. but also not surprising at the same time. the reason is simple. he was the gatekeeper who didn't keep many people out. the gatekeeper to donald trump. when you wanted information to trump, you went through him. everybody did that. it shows that the members of congress were in on trying to disrupt the proceedings on january 6th. rally organizers, the people on the political campaign, they all did that. they all went through meadows. >> yeah. >> that's why we have it. >> if you look at these texts, and there's thousands and thousands of them, and some of these just show how stupid and destructive and misguided these people are, who are elected officials, let alone the trump supporters who, you know, rallied at the capitol, stormed it, assaulted it, defecated on it. i mean, ultimately, there was some sort of cult-like, some sort of spell that he has, that causes smart people to go against everything they know about this country and everything they know about the constitution. i guess some of them might not know these facts, and do this. but what will these text messages do to help lead to any type of conclusion, accountability? right now, it's the people -- it's the people on the lowest level of this sort of hierarchy under trump who are paying the price for trumpism. >> that's absolutely right. and i think the reason is they haven't gotten all the evidence from people like meadows. meadows is basically refusing to cooperate. >> so what happens? >> what happens is -- >> legally. >> legally, they're going to prosecute him for criminal contempt. there is a referral to the justice department. probably, he is going to be able to waltz this one out. we're not going to get his testimony. but there's going to be -- you know, there's a lot of testimony from a lot of other people that they've gotten. these text messages also create a trail as to who are the other witnesses. there are still also 1,000 emails or texts, should be texts, that he withheld, that meadows withheld in december when he produced these 2,319 texts. >> jjackie, what can you add frm your reporting on this? >> kudos to cnn for getting this impressive group of text messages. >> for sure. >> what it could potentially do is pressure the committee to go ahead and subpoena sitting members of congress who they have yet to apply their aggressive tactics to, because of some legal concerns, timing concerns, and fear of the boomerang effect. these people, come november, these lawmakers, perry, mccarthy, jim jordan, marjorie taylor greene, lauren boebert, there were over 40 current and former members of congress mark meadows was communicating with in the text messages, and according to court filings released last week, who could go unscathed and not be punished by the committee in any way, or called in, because they're worried there could be a form of retribution in november if republicans win back the house majority, take control, and then start subpoenaing democrats. >> right. >> so -- >> what am i missing, gene? >> what do we expect the republicans to do if they take the house in any event? that would kind of be my argument. they're already, you know, threatening, rumbling about impeachments of cabinet members, and they're going to -- you know, i mean, if they take the house, they're going to have committee after committee after committee investigating this administration, investigating the investigation. it is going to be like that, i think, no matter what, if the republicans take the house. >> so just hours after a violent mob of trump supporters broke into the united states capitol and attempted to stop the certification of the presidential election -- take that in, that happened. it is hard to believe even today, even though we saw it. then senate majority leader mitch mcconnell said he was, quote, exhilarated. the insurrection could potentially hurt donald trump. here's how the "washington post" reports on mcconnell's comments. quote, i feel exhilarated by the fact that this fellow finally, totally discredited himself. mcconnell told jonathan martin, one of the authors of the new book entitled "this will not pass," when asked about his feelings on the violence and the rioters. he put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger, he said. standing in the doorway of the capitol after midnight, couldn't have happened at a better time. the book, as reported by the "washington post," alleges mcconnell asked martin what he heard about invoking the 25th amendment and that he had spoken with democratic leadership about issuing a joint statement, telling trump not to attend the inauguration. the authors write that senator mcconnell planned to cut into trump's influence on the gop in the upcoming midterms, similar to how he weeded out far-right candidates in 2014. we crushed the sons of -- you know whats -- he said to martin, according to the book. adding, and that's what we're going to do in the primary in '22. a spokesman for senator mcconnell declined to comment on the book. despite his strong stance against trump in the immediate aftermath of january 6th, just weeks later, mcconnell voted with the majority of senate republicans to absolve him of any punishment. mcconnell's office declined to comment on the quotes when asked by nbc news. again, i'm -- it makes me think of the jonathan swan interview with mitch mcconnell. there's just -- they don't care. and you know deep inside, from this reporting, that it was like, oh, the witch is dead. thank god we can move on with our lives. finally he is gone. but when he is not, they fall back into form. >> yeah, the problem is none of them are willing to do anything about him. >> why? >> that's the amazing question. this was the moment that he had been waiting for, and he was the one who could have stuck the final knife into trump. by holding an early impeachment trial. ultimately by convicting him. he didn't do it because he thought, oh, the guy will go away on his own. he did it to himself. he must have been confident at that moment, to say to a "new york times" reporting writing a book. >> it is political survival. itmatter of weeks. the trump base, republican base, isn't care, and they flipped quickly, at least publicly. the comments he made to jonathan martin in private, you know, came ahead of his comments he made publicly after trump's impeachment. you know, he didn't vote for the impeachment, but he didn't vote to convict him, but you saw his blistering speech on the floor. >> yeah. >> but after that, they made the determination that it wasn't in their interest, the republican party, to not support donald trump. >> it was a choice, though. >> willie, it is also added into this, sort of what is going on with this, over the last years, americans, voters, everybody in every industry has become -- people who cover trump -- desensitized to what is bad. to the point of they don't care. >> some republicans, yes. january 6th was something different entirely. >> it was bad. >> anybody who watched what was happening, either in person or on their televisions, knew that this cannot happen in america. there was a moment, and we're hearing behind the scenes, we heard it last week, jonathan lemire, from the same book, kevin mccarthy on tape talking to liz cheney about, maybe we should explore the 25th amendment. i'll call him and tell him he should resign. i should get a bunch of republicans off twitter. they're dangerous. house members, in particular, certain members. yet, as everyone on the panel and watching has been saying, the core contradiction of our time in the republican party is, privately, we hate this guy and wish he'd go away. publicly, we can't quit him. >> there was a fleeting moment where they could have rid the party of donald trump, or made a real effort to do so. yes, perhaps mitch mcconnell thought trump would just go away, but there is something else at play. they read the room. mcconnell and mccarthy looked at their own caucuses, their party members, looked at the poll and relized how popular donald trump still was. the impeachment trial happened after trump was out of office, and there were few republicans willing to convict. there were a handful but not enough. mcconnell realized he could have lost the support of his members. yes, he publicly denounced trump but voted to acquit on narrow grounds. he's already out of office, so there is no point in removing him now. but if he had done so, let's remember the argument the senator schumer made at that point. if trump was removed from office, they might have been able to ban him from seeking federal office again. that, of course, did not come to be. and, yes, did mcconnell deliver a blistering speech denouncing trump during that trial? yes, he did. did he vote to acquit? yes, he did. two weeks later, he was asked if he'd support and vote for donald trump again. he said, yes, i would. he has not changed his tone ever since. >> three weeks after the phone call with liz cheney, kevin mccarthy was at mar-a-lago taking a photograph, reassuring trump he was still in his pocket. george conway, i guess this is power. if mccarthy becoming speaker of the house, he will have been vindicated in his own mind, because he will say, i am now the leader of this party in the house of representatives, and we call the shots, because i stood by the side of donald trump. >> yeah, that's absolutely right. he lied for donald trump. then he lied about lying for donald trump. lied about lying about lying for donald trump. that's what we've seen in the last week from that one man alone. that's just what they do. that's the way they show their loyalty and have no -- >> so what's behind that? i feel like there is a missing link, jackie alemany. that they change back after even the brink here, with mitch mcconnell going, finally, we're done with this guy. >> there is certainly an element of political expediency hire. but the question of what changed is something the committee is seeking. that's why they want to speak with kevin mccarthy. they want to know what his conversation with the former president was at mar-a-lago, when he did the pivot and all of a sudden was pro-trump after the week before, just been discussing potentially invoking the 25th amendment. whether or not there were some sort of fundraising threat, or if it was a realization that the money was drying up. corporations were pulling out of supporting any republicans. they realized -- republicans realized from a leadership perspective they needed trump's grassroots operations to continue to keep their members afloat. or if it was really, at the end of the day, there is no smoking gun here, and it was just a matter that members went home. their supporters did not care what happened. still supported trump. they had to come back and do what their constituents wanted. >> jackie a and george conway, thank you, both, for coming on. up next, the former president's troubles don't stop at january 6th. tom winter joins us with new reporting on a legal victory for new york attorney general's office and its probe in the trump organization. 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[ kimberly ] i feel so much better. i feel energized to go outside and play with my daughter. i can ate anything. like, i don't have to worry. clearchoice changed my life. ♪♪ 6:54 in the morning. a gloomy day here in new york city. a new york judge is holding frmer president trump in civil contempt of court for failing to comply with a subpoena from the state attorney general's office. trump has been ordered now to pay $10,000 a day until he turns over documents that have been subpoenaed by new york attorney general letitia james. trump was supposed to have turned over the documents on march 31st. james' office has been investigating the trump organization's business practices for more than two years. she previously has said the trump organization engaged in fraudulent or misleading practices. in a pair of tweets yesterday, james called the ruling a major victory. adding the investigation will continue undeterred because, she says, no one is above the law. a lawyer for the former president said, we respectfully disagree with the court's decision and intend to appeal. joining us, investigations reporter tom winter. good morning. good to see you. the odds, as you said a moment ago, that donald trump is actually going to pay $10,000 a day are close to zero, perhaps? let's remind our viewers what this is all about, first of all. what are the documents, and what is attorney general james pursuing here? >> this is the civil investigation, not the criminal investigation led by the manhattan office. they're looking into whether the president appropriately valued his properties and followed new york state law with respect to taxes, as well as business financial filings. that's what she's focused on at this point, at this stage of the investigation. as you said, she's had several filings that came out and said, look, we have reason to believe that in pitching the court and essentially saying, look, we believe we should be able to depose the former president, as well as several of his children. they think they have found some instances where properties were not valued correctly, where there was some other issues that may have run afoul from the law, again, from a civil perspective. nobody is going to jail over what has been uncovered so far and off of her investigation. on march 31st, the president had a deadline to meet where he had to provide certain documents, certain personal documents. this doesn't pertain to the trump organization. this pertains directly to trump's own personal response to what the court has ordered here. we're talking about the post-it notes he typically puts on top of documents that he sends around to staff. we know he is not somebody who sends around emails to various members of the trump organization. they want the personal documents pertaining to the business, to see if they can move forward in their investigation and their case. they asked for that. the judge yesterday did not make this retroactive. he is not having to pay back to march 31st. this order of contempt is for yesterday's decision and ongoing. as you read, willie, his attorneys have promised to appeal here. they could, of course, get a stay of these fines pending is that appeal. it is quite possible the president is not on the potential meter, so to speerks speak, at this point. >> we joked about his unwillingness to pay for anything, to separate himself from his money, but he may have to down the road. >> right. >> is he cooperating at all? either cooperation from the president himself or the trump organization? >> sure, they've definitely turned over documents. the totality of documents that is in the possession of the manhattan attorney's office, the ag office, totals in the millions. i'm not exaggerating. it is millions of pages of documents they've been able to uncover in the course of this investigation. they have complied, but there's areas where they've fought. certainly, they fought on him sitting for a deposition. they fought significantly on that front. yeah, various points, they have sought to slow down this investigation. >> tom, while we have you, you mentioned the criminal case, the manhattan district attorney leading it. a lot of back and forth, consternation. the prosecutors quit, suggesting there wouldn't be a case brought against trump. can you update us on where that stands? >> sitting here this morning, i have no reporting at all, which could change in five minutes, five hours, or five months, no reporting that indicates they are close or even have the information needed to bring forward a criminal case against the former president of the united states. there is nothing that indicates that they are there. they say the investigation is ongoing. we are aware of no overt efforts that they have undertaken to bring forward this case. right now, they just don't have it. >> all right. nbc's tom winter all over this story for us. we'll check back in soon, tom. good to see you. thanks so much. coming up next, russia's foreign minister escalates rhetoric against the west, warning the risk of nuclear war is, quote, considerable. ukraine's foreign minister joins us at the top of the hour to respond. plus, warsaw has taken in more than 300,000 ukrainian refugees since the start of the russian invasion. the mayor of warsaw will be our guest this morning. we're coming back in 90 seconds. trelegy for copd. 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also ahead this hour, dr. deborah birx, the head of the white house task force under president donald trump, will be our guest. we'll discuss how she ended up taking a job she says she did not want, as well as her efforts to steady the administration's faltering response to the pandemic. welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, april 26th. joe is off. jonathan lemire, david ignatius, eugene robinson are all still with willie and me. let's get right to the news. russian missiles rained down on at least five train stations across ukraine yesterday, just hours after top white house officials reportedly used the railways to meet with the country's president in kyiv. at least one worker was killed, four others injured, according to ukrainian officials, when the strikes hit the stations in the western and central parts of the country. the barrage came just a short time after u.s. secretary of state antony blinken and defense secretary lloyd austin traveled by train to a diplomatic meeting with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. moscow later confirmed the attack, saying the strikes targeted train stations where weapons were being imported from nato countries. willie? joining us now is ukraine's minister of foreign affairs, dmytro kuleba. i want to talk about the rhetoric we've been hearing from russia, about the potential for world war iii, about, quote, considerable possibility for the use of nuclear weapons from your counterpart in russia. what is your reaction to that kind of talk? >> well, this is russia's traditional scaremongering, that no one should be afraid of. ukraine has demonstrated we are not afraid of russia. we know how to win. neither the united states nor anyone else in the world should be afraid of them either. the response to such blackmailing coming from the russian federation should be firm, and the more countries will support ukraine, the sooner we will put this war to an end. >> sir, are you receiving everything you need, everything you would hope to receive from the united states? president biden authorized another $800 million package, much heavier weaponry, offensive weapons for your fight in the east. are you happy with what you have now, and what else do you need as you move forward? >> it is true to say that the united states is the number one in the world in terms of supporting ukrainian defense capabilities. we are deeply grateful to the biden administration for acting in such a resolved and swift manner. however, i must tell you, of course, as a minister of a country at war, that it will never be enough, until russian soldiers leave their footprints on ukrainian soil. the moment we liberate our country, the moment we win this war, i will say, the united states did everything they could and everything was enough to achieve this victory. this victory will be for us but also for you and all other democracies across the globe. >> president biden, defense secretary austin, secretary blinken who were in kyiv 48 hours ago, have pledged ongoing support. just wanted to ask you, mr. foreign minister, on a human level, how the people of your country are doing. obviously, the world has been so inspired by the fighting spirit and the resilience and the pride of your people, not just the military but of the civilians there, to rally in defense of their country. but, obviously, there have been horrific atrocities inflicted upon you, in places like bucha, mariupol, and well beyond. how is that spirit of the ukrainian people today? >> well, we are bleeding. morally, militarily, economically, physically. but we are fighting. we will not stop until we win. russia inflicts enormous damage on us by all means, by destroying our cities, by destroying our economy, by committing atrocities, by shelling our cities and our soldiers. but we will not stop because we have no other choice but to win in this war. >> we are talking with ukraine's minister of foreign affairs, dmytro kuleba. sir, if i could ask you, focusing in on different areas that russia is attacking, what is the state of kherson at this moment? >> well, kherson is under russia's temporary control. they tried to arrange a fake referendum to legitimize their presence on the ground. the biggest difficulty they are facing there is the unwillingness of the ukrainians in kherson to actually participate in their fake undertakings. so they're struggling. i'm sure that we will liberate the city one day, but until then, the -- our compatriots will resist peacefully to the occupant forces. >> i'm just curious, you were saying the russians were trying to conduct some sort of vote in there. what did that look like? how were they doing that? >> well, this is the classic russian technology, first tested in crimea in 2014. the so-called referendums at the barrel of the gun, to imitate the people's will, expression of people's will to be with russia, then to install their proxy authorities on the ground. but as i said, they're difficul and the south of ukraine, because ukrainians resist these attempts. >> we have david ignatius from the "washington post" here. he has the next question for you, sir. >> mr. foreign minister, your forces are performing with great bravery, and there is new talk ukraine could win this war. i want to ask you about diplomacy. the u.n. secretary general guterres is scheduled this week to go to moscow. i'm wondering if you still see any possibility for a negotiated settlement that would spare your country some of the agony it is experiencing. >> i don't think secretary general will be able to end the war, but there is one crucially important task that he can implement. it's to arrange a corridor for the defenders and civilians blocked by russia in mariupol, on the south of ukraine. mariupol is a bleeding wound on the body of ukraine. we spent days and nights praying for them, for their survival, because russia keeps shelling them 24/7. we hope that u.n. secretary general will focus on the very specific task, provide his good services to russia, to us, to help save these people. >> general milley of the joint chiefs of staff said yesterday he thinks the next two to three weeks will be very, very important in the future of your country and the outcome of this war. tell what you say you think the next two or three week will be about. >> since the beginning of the war, we heard different estimations, from military experts from various countries. next five days, next ten days, next weeks, next three weeks will be dedecisive. for us, every day is divisive because we fight for our soil, for our land, and for our people. so whatever happens in the next two or three weeks or months, it will be our struggle and our fight against russian occupants. what is happening in donbas, the famous battle for donbas is taking place as we speak. russia involved heavy artillery tanks, bombers, to destroy our positions. this battle is conducted in a world war ii style. as i said, we hold to the line. we hold our lines. we defend our soil. now that more important weapons are coming from our partners, most importantly from the united states, we improve our chances to win in this battle within short perspective. >> gene robinson? >> mr. foreign minister, the russians say they want to take territory in donbas but also in the south. are you seeing the same sort of russian offensive in the south that you're seeing in the donbas, or are they concentrating their efforts right now in the donbas? >> they concentrate their efforts in donbas. this is the main battleground. we know that the top military leadership of russia is involved in directly commanding this operation. in the south, they undertake a gripping political kind of annexation of these territories, trying to arrange the referendum i mentioned, trying to suppress resistance. because they already brought the russian security service on the ground in the south, trying to suppress the opposition of ukrainians to their presence. the real battleground is donbas, stretching from kharkiv, northeast of ukraine, and to mariupol on the sea of azov. >> mr. foreign minister, you brought up mariupol, and it is hard not to think every moment of every day about the people inside that steel plant. is there any hope for them? >> it's hard for me to explain to you how painful it is to receive messages from defenders of mariupol. i'm in touch with one of our officers, and we speak daily. he sends me videos of mothers with infants, children, in the shelter, wounded ukrainian soldiers in the space next to them who lack medicine, who die because of the lack of medicine. while they're hiding from russian bombs, russia continuously bombs this shelter, trying to destroy them. it is ruthless. it is beyond humanity. russia clearly has the aim of killing all these people. this is why we count on every effort to save their lives, including the effort of the u.n. secretary general. >> if you could speak directly to the russian people, what would you say? >> you know, unfortunately, russian people share responsibility for this war. we see how they vigorously support the aggression against ukraine, how they hate us. so they share responsibility with putin for what is happening. for all the massacres, for crimes, for rapes, tortures, looting. i'm sorry to say this, but russia will have to go -- undergo the process of de-putinization. it is not only the russian leadership to blame. the russian people have to wake up and atone their sins. >> mr. foreign minister, we heard from two u.s. cabinet officials who journeyed to kyiv this weekend that one of their missions was to, quote, weaken russia, with the implication being so they couldn't do something like this again. no further invasion of ukraine or any other nation. what does that mean to you? what would it mean to weaken russia so they'd no longer be a threat to your people? >> russian war machine must be stopped. this can be achieved in two way. the first one is to provide ukraine with military support, and this is the fair deal we are offering to the world. give us everything that we need, and we will stop russia's war machine in ukraine. we will not let them go further. and the second way to stop this machine is to impose all necessary sanctions on russia. and continue doing so until russia is really essentially deprived of any resources necessary to run this war. >> mr. foreign minister, there has been talk that this could go on in some form, this conflict, this invasion, this aggression by russia, for years to come. how are you looking at this war in terms of a time line? you have to stop and begin to rebuild your country for one thing. but before you do that, you have to stop the invasion in the east. how long are you settling in for this war to go on? >> well, we didn't expect this war to last for months. now we are in the third month of the war. we don't have the luxury to make any estimates. as i said, we will fight until we win. because if we lose, there will be no ukraine. but this victory may be much closer than anyone might think if we support all the weapons, especially heavy weapons like western tanks, planes, howitzers, which the united states and other countries are already sending us. and if there are no restrictions on the sanctions that have to be imposed on russia. oil embargo, gas embargo. disconnecting all russian banks from international financial system. the sooner this is done, the sooner we will win. >> david ignatius? >> mr. foreign minister, let me ask a final question. our general petraeus famously was asked at the beginning of the 2003 invasion of iraq, tell me how this ends. tell us how this ends. >> ukraine will win. it will be a european democratic country. russia will be contained. it will not be able to pose a threat to any country in the world. we will pay the price for the safety of the world. but we are ready to do it because it is also the price for our own independence. >> wow. ukraine's minister of foreign affairs, dmytro kuleba. thank you very, very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to be joined by the mayor of warsaw, poland. his city has already taken in 300,000 ukrainian refugees. thousands more are expected to come across the borders in the coming weeks. also ahead, someone americans saw almost every day at the beginning of the pandemic, dr. deborah birx, is our guest in studio. plus, we're getting a better idea of the impact the pandemic has had on mental health, especially in teens and young adults. we'll dive into that new data straight ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪("i've been everywhere" by johnny cash) ♪ ♪i've traveled every road in this here land!♪ ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere, man.♪ ♪of travel i've had my share, man.♪ ♪i've been everywhere.♪ ♪♪ wealth is breaking ground on your biggest project yet. worth is giving the people who build it a solid foundation. wealth is shutting down the office for mike's retirement party. worth is giving the employee who spent half his life with you, the party of a lifetime. ♪ ♪ wealth is watching your business grow. worth is watching your employees grow with it. ♪ ♪ ♪ baby got back by sir mix-a-lot ♪ worth is watching your unlimited cashback match... only from discover. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for whatchya... line? need. liberty biberty— cut. liberty... are we married to mutual? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i would like you to speak to the medical doctos to see if there is a way to apply light and heat to cure. you know, if you could. maybe you can, maybe you can't. again, i say maybe you can, maybe you can't. i'm not a doctor. i'm, like, a person that has a good you know what. >> sir -- >> deborah, have you ever heard of the heat and the light relative to certain viruses, yes, but relevant to this virus? >> not as a treatment. i mean, certainly fever. >> yeah. >> it is a good thing when you have a fever. it helps your body respond. but not as -- i've not seen heat or light -- >> i think it is a great thing to look at. >> then i see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. one minute. is there a way we can do something like that. by injection inside or almost a cleaning. you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. it'll be interesting to check that. you'll have to use medical doctors with it, but it sounds interesting to me. >> april 23rd, 2020, that's the moment that came to epitomize, in many ways, the time dr. deborah birx spent as head of the white house covid task force under president donald trump. dr. birx joins us now. she's out with a new book, "silent invasion, the untold story of the trump administration, covid-19, and preventing the next pandemic before it's too late." dr. birx, great to see you. >> good to see you. >> we tortured you a little bit with the clip, watching it through clenched teeth as i looked at you. there is a revelation in the book about what former president trump was talking about there. it had to do with new york city playgrounds. can you explain a little bit? >> so it's the spring, and i was tracking every city across the united states that had had a significant covid surge. i was seeing across the board that the playgrounds were closed. as you can see, you're doing the next segment, mental health. the mental health of america's children was important to me. i had grandchildren at the time, and i really felt like people should be outside. so we asked dhs to do an analysis to compare surface disinfectant, which every mother knows, to sunlight, to be able to convince mothers and mayors that playground equipment was safe outside because of sunlight, and the fact that sunlight creates what we call free radicals. they're natural disinfectants. dhs was asked to do the study. they presented it to task force. our conclusion is we can go to the mayors now and the governors on the governor's call and tell them children can be outside. it deteriorated into that. >> in other words, the president heard some kernel of truth about sunlight being safe for kids on a playground and took it to that point. so how do you -- that was just one of many moments that you had to grapple with, with former president trump. how do you deal with that after the fact? you handle it with a straight face in the moment, but you have to get the right information out to the people. what were your next moves in a white house where things were so political and you had to be careful not to cross the president? >> what was important is i wasn't political. i was a civil servant, prior military, then working as a civil servant in the state department. and so i immediately went to the president trump influencers. one, i didn't know how it happened, so i wanted to find out how it happened so it never happened again. i wanted to make it clear that that information was incorrect, even though i said not a treatment. i wanted to make sure that the president said not a treatment as soon as possible. because he had listeners at the time following him. i went to olivia troye and jared kushner. >> so you write in the book about this conundrum you had. again, as you say, you were not a political person. you work for both republicans and democrats. for people who don't know, you are one of the leading experts in the world. you help turned the tide of the hiv epidemic in africa. when you were put in that position, many people breathed a sigh of relief. okay, a serious person is in charge here. so you had to walk the line that so many people under former president trump had to walk, which is to occasionally flatter him. you know, you talked about his experience as a synthesizing information helpful to the process. how did you get the right information out but, again, not angering him to the point where you lost your job? >> well, for 25 years, i battled pandemics around the world. you have to get the right policies, which means you have to deal with leaders. you don't get to pick those leaders. you have to deal with the leader you are given. so it doesn't matter if you're working in africa or asia, it doesn't matter if you're talking to which president, you have to convey the information and move that president and leader forward, to making the right decisions that saves lives. >> so the country did not respond to this pandemic with a moment of unity. it became very quickly very politicized, very polarized. how much of a difference would it have been, if not in march, but let's say even in april, when the science was clear behind it, how much of a difference would this pandemic have looked if president trump had donned a mask and told others to wear masks? >> yeah, i think that was the important piece in the book, where i make it so clear that when you're dealing with pandemics, one of the most important things is communication and transparency in that communication. and consistency in the communication. also, showing the american people, in this case, the information, the evidence of why you're saying this is an important thing to do. that's why it was really important to study masks in january and february, so you could go to the american people and say, this is how they work. they work both directions. because when i got out to the heartland of america, they were like, i don't understand what you're saying. common sense tells us that if the mask protects the droplets this way, it should protect droplets from coming in. why didn't you say masks work partially for protection and partially to keep from infecting others? these kind of things that weren't complete communications also caused confusion across america. >> mika? >> so, dr. birx, there were many news conferences where the president delivered information that was incomplete or incorrect or even, at times, covering up facts about this pandemic that would have been useful for the american public. so i guess my question to you is, what kept you in there, and what kept you from saying something publicly? >> well, i did. that was really the unfortunate piece. i went out to the states because, obviously, governor policies and mayor policies make a critical importance to the residents. i started writing a report to every governor that was published weekly. that report went to every single governor, every single week. i followed that up by actually going physically to seeing them and doing local media, both local media from the white house and local media actually out in the states. and i think that was critically important. you can't -- if something is not working and you can't get the change that you need, you don't give up. you find a way or you make one. i made one by going out to the states and going out to every single city. and making sure that there was clear data to every single governor to facilitate their policy dedecisions. >> david ignatius? >> dr. birx, two years into this pandemic, more than that. we've had sometimes conflicting reports, advice from the cdc, other public health authorities. i want to ask you a tough question. do you think our public health system has been damaged by this experience in a way that the public is going to be less confident, less comfortable taking the advice of experts going forward? >> it depends what we do. what you say is absolutely correct. there were missteps made, and that's -- i did try to cover those. i tried to be very honest in the book. i was reflecting to willie, i love his sunday mornings, the highs and the lows. i didn't want the highs to get lost because i think i learned critical lessons, but i didn't want the lows to get lost because we need to fix them. just like after 9/11, where we decided in that moment that how we were working together as a federal government was not successful, we need, right now, to say, we did not respond to this pandemic effectively. full stop. then figure out what we need to do right now so that americans both survive and america thrives, despite the fact that we have this pandemic. it is what we did in sub-saharan africa for hiv. people are thriving. we can do it here, but we have to admit we're not perfect right now. >> i'm going to send you to gene robinson in a moment. i'm just curious, given the fact that president trump withheld so much information, you know, which was revealed in bob woodward's reporting along the way, and because of his sort of inability to get the grasp, the full concept of the pandemic, and the fact that he ran a lot of the information on his own, could more lives have been saved if perhaps more competent mind was at the top? >> you know, i've -- i really -- thank you. because i thought about that a lot. obviously, i've said that i think we could have saved 30% more people. i believe that today. i believe that right now. hospitalizations are rising across the united states. where there are rising cases, if you look, just don't look at who is in the hospital. you have to look at what's changing. hospital new admissions are increasing in americans over 70. we know that's the group that is seriously impacted. we know in new york, hospitalizations in those over 70 have been rising for four weeks. what are we doing? how are we using that information? how are we using the fact that we know that now? everybody over 70 should be regularly testing, should be immediate access to monoclonal . we know and have the tools. we have to use them in an effective way and allow data to drive us to the right decisions as individuals and as communities. >> gene robinson? >> dr. birx, you're an expert both on the virus and on how the response to the virus became politicized. i'd like you to look forward for a minute. what is our future with the coronavirus? are we going to -- is it going to come in waves? are we going to have new variants? how do you see our future? >> well, let's be very clear, we know surges will continue, variants will continue to evolve, because both natural infection and our current vaccines don't protect against reinfection for long periods of time. so we need to work on a very durable vaccine. at the same time, we need to accept the fact that natural infection does not protect you completely. use that data so that everyone knows what's happening in their community. let's accept what's happening. let's accept right now that we know when surges occur. we've had two summer surges, two winter surges, and we've had this little blip of a late spring surge last year with the alpha variant and this year now with this variant. instead of when things improve again in may, which they will, let's use that time in may to get ready as a country, so that people not only survive but thrive. >> dr. birx, i'm curious, because we're covering so many different angles of the trump presidency in its aftermath, you know, the attack on the capitol and republicans who keep jumping back toward him, just what it was like working in there? and when he was saying something that was flatly wrong or doing something that seemed -- what kept you in there? what kept others in the game? what was he like? what went through your mind? >> well, after that disinfectant episode, i only had two or three clear briefings where i could contradict what was being said. in addition, what i tried to do, and what i did every day, is i got up between 2:00 and 4:00, analyzed all the data, integrated all the data, and sent out a daily report to every single cabinet member, the vice president, and all the members of the task force. and all of the president's influencers, with a summary of exactly what was happening and what was going to happen. because i didn't want anyone to ever say that they didn't know. so everybody knew what was going on, how bad it was going to get, and what the solutions were. i think what we have to look back on is saying, what can end the president from implementing those solutions? what keeps us today from implementing the solutions that work? >> i remember a day, dr. birx, when you came out with other doctors and presented a report that suggested maybe more than 200,000 people could die in this pandemic. i think we all gasped when we heard that number. >> that was a spring surge. >> right, at the beginning. >> yeah. >> now we just put up a map a moment ago. maybe we can again. 996,447 deaths in this pandemic. we'll pump up to a million not too long from now. it is a long answer, i know, and really the subject of your book, but how did we go so wrong? how were the estimates so wrong? how did we not prevent 1 million of our fellow americans from dying? >> i think two things. we're not using data and information in real time. we're not giving that data and information to the american people in a transparent way. i appreciate, like, "the new york times" that's doing the covid tracker, but it needs to be more than that. it needs to be on a government website where you can see instantaneously what is happening in my community. and what has happened in my community. what do i need to do? so it not only shows the information, it shows clearly the solutions of what you can do. and the evidence behind that. that's what we -- that's the mistake we often make in public health. sometimes we believe that people can't understand the hard stuff. i can tell you, they can understand the hard stuff. doesn't matter where i've worked, what education level, people understand. if they don't understand, that's on you, not on the person you're talking to. i think getting deep into communities and listening to communities. you cannot sit in washington or atlanta at a computer and decide what americans need to do and how to do it. you need to get out into the community and have a dialogue and find out what the access barriers are to those tools. right now, across this country, we have severe access barriers, whether urban pockets, but our rural america does not have access to the health care that you enjoy every day here. >> if i let you go back two years and give you a do-over, what would you do different about your approach, you personally, to this pandemic? >> i would have probably come in january or february when they first asked. for all the reasons that you cited, i wanted to stay where i was having a significant impact on hiv, tb, and malaria. i could see we were turning the corner. with additional work, we were going to get there. that's what many people said was impossible, and we made it possible. and i think getting data up in january and february, having testing available in january and february across this country could have changed our confidence at that very beginning. when you see hospitals like elmhurst, you lose faith in our institutions and their ability to protect us. >> we have just scratched the surface in this book called "the silent invasion, the untold story of the trump administration, covid-19, and preventing the next pandemic before it's too late." there's a lot in there about what we need to do to change our system so this doesn't happen again in our country. dr. deborah birx, thank you for your time this morning. >> thank you. >> nice to see you. dr. birx mentioned the other toll of the pandemic, the mental health crisis, especially among young americans. much more on that straight ahead. we will also talk about the answer ukraine's foreign minister gave us moments ago about how the war in ukraine will end. we're back in a moment. 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"the new york times" reports this, quote, american adolescence is undergoing a drastic change. three decades ago, the gravest public health threat to teenagers in the united states came from binge drinking, drunken driving, teenage pregnancy and smoking. these since have fallen sharply, replaced by a new public health concern, soaring rates of mental health disorders. the decline in mental health among teenagers was intensified by the covid pandemic, but predated it, spanning racial and ethnic groups, urban and rural areas, and socio-economic divides. this surge has raised vexing questions. are these issues inherent into adolescence that nearly went unrecognized before, or are they being overdiagnosed now? historical comparisons are difficult, as some data around certain issues like teen anxiety and depression began to be collected relatively recently. the rising rates of emergency room visits were suicide and self-harm leave little doubt the physical nature of the threat has changed significantly. john has been tracking the mental health of young americans for some time. he is the director of polling at the institute of politics at harvard university, and author of the book "fight, how challenging their fear and passion to save america." great to see you. a difficult subject but, man, there is nothing more important for young people than this. i want to start with your first poll about what young people, 18 to 29-year-olds, are bothered by. let's look at the numbers and then talk about why we think this is happening right now. what do we see? >> that's right, willie. you can see that this is a survey we conducted at the harvard institute of politics with over 2,000 28 to 29-year-olds, a representative sample. over the last year, as covid restrictions have gone by the wayside in many places, we've gotten, quote, back to normal, we've seen no significant change. the number of young americans concerned on a regular basis, more days than not the last two weeks, of feeling down, depressed, hopeless. majority of our young people. half of that number say it is so bad, several days the last two weeks, they've had concerns and thoughts about self-harm or suicide. >> it is a gut punch. it is so real. anybody who has kids of any age knows we're hearing, whether it's not in your family, it's a friend or at your school or something like that. what do respondents in your poll say is driving this? we have names for these things. growing up, we didn't talk about anxiety or depression. they were there, for sure, but we didn't talk about them the way we do now. what did the young people tell you? >> there were a couple things. regardless of whether or not we felt it or we think our situation was better or worse than our kids, they feel it. right? they're talking about it. i think that's a good thing. what we find from students is that in addition to -- this was before covid, by the way. >> right. >> we tracked this before covid. we can see the rise of suicide happening when the oldest members of gen-z turned 15, 16, 17 years old. that's when we saw the spike in suicide. what we're seeing in addition to the data, willie, is in addition to the factors of being a teenager exacerbated by social media, our politics is having a detrimental effects. a majority of young people are saying the discourse in the nation is a driver of stress and anxiety and a feeling of hopelessness. you know, 45%, willie, of young people who identify as lgbtq, as an example, 45% feel under attack a lot in this country. 57% of young from time to times feel the same way. so it is just it's just not the traditional pressures of school, of work, of social life. it's the discourse of politics, the way we're treating each other as citizens and a weight that young people are having to carry in addition to the other covid related stresses that we all have. >> if we put the last graphic up again. social media has been such a focus of a source of problems for young people. 22% of your respondents say it has positive effect, 37 say a negative effect. if you want to look at something that's different from when we were kids, something that wasn't there for us as it was for them. it's social media, comparing yourself to other kids and body image and all the things we know to be true. how much of a role does social media play? >> incredibly important. you can never get away from the problems, the stresses, something that follows you all the way from when you go to bed at night, to when you wake up. so young people should put pressure on big tech and social media companies to mitigate these things. there are more resources available than they may know. only half of young people have the resources available. social media can actually help by channelling and sharing some of the information about the help that's actually already there when they know where people are beginning to spend too much of their time. >> john, i want to talk about other sources of stress here. student loan debt i know is one that's big for a lot of young people. another issue that i have heard young people worry about is climate change, not sure what planet they're going to inherit. >> we find support for government to address student loan debt. we see roughly 85 to 90% want government to do something about student loan debt. there is not necessarily a majority agree that we should cancel all student debt. we offer three or four options we find that a plurality believe we should be canceling debt for everyone, they didn't say how much. but there are options canceling debts for who need it most or refinancing options. so there's a consensus we need to do something, there's more nuance in terms of what that should be in terms of young people. there's been a lot of research on this topic, climate is another threat that people just carry on their shoulders on a regular basis. they can feel the difference, even the course of the last decade or 15 years of their life. they can see how the climate in their community is changing. it's difficult to put the issues into context, how to manage those on a day-to-day basis with all the other things going. we talk about young people being under threat, because they are under threat. they're under threat because of climate, because of gun violence, they are under a threat based upon who you are, what your identity is on social media. they're not paranoid, there's truth to this. >> fascinating. john, thanks as always. good to see you. >> thanks. still ahead, jarring video shows the moments following the onset shooting involving actor alec baldwin last year. how it could impact the death of helena hutchins, "morning joe" is coming right back. hutchins," is coming right back ♪ walking on ♪ ♪ walking on the moon ♪ ♪ some ♪ ♪ may say ♪ ♪ i'm wishing my days away ♪ ♪ no way ♪ ♪ walking on the moon ♪ before nexium 24hr, anna could only imagine a comfortable night's sleep without frequent heartburn waking her up. now, that dream... . ...is her reality. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts, for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? 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>> yes, yes, it's very important. during this war, ukraine exactly understand who is their friends and who is not. and, of course, united states, it's our friend. >> reporter: hours after the u.s. secretary's secret visit to ukraine, the russian military bombarding crucial infrastructure far from the front line. and in chernihiv, they're dealing with the aftermath of the russian occupation. >> this was the scene of a major battle now they're cleaning it up, removing the shells the russians left behind. >> reporter: for many a show of how far russia is willing to go to destroy their country. the u.n. secretary general this morning is in moscow meeting with the russian foreign minister. he said he's calling for a truce but the u.n. secretary general is under fire here in ukraine saying he should have visited here first. >> since the end of february, nearly 3 million ukrainians have fled to neighboring poland. the country's capital of warsaw, the population has grown roughly 20% after accepting more than 300,000 refugees. the mayor of the city says they're at capacity and losing millions of dollars but bracing for another influx of refugees as russia escalates the invasion into eastern ukraine. and the mayor joining us now. it's good to see you. >> good morning. >> it's incredible. it's hard to describe the numbers of people who have been welcomed onto polish soil, up to 3 million in the course of what three to four months. for warsaw you say you are at capacity. can you describe the situation? i'm trying to envision so many polish people inviting ukrainians in their homes. >> yes. the solidarity of the polish people is incredible. if you're in warsaw, you see there are no pitched tents in if parks or people on the streets because they're in people's apartments, our homes. accepting 300,000 people -- >> what's the population of warsaw? >> almost 2 million. so the population increased by more than 15% in a month. if you remember the mediterranean crisis we have 300,000 people coming to europe in one month. here we have it in one city. it puts a strain on services, we have granted access to free education, health care, social protection. so the service of the city are strained. we have 120 kids in warsaw because most of the refugees are young women with kids. we opened our schools for them, almost 20,000 kids already enrolled in schools, but we cannot accept 120,000 kids overnight. >> that's the reality right now. >> indeed. >> what's happening with these children? >> well, i mean, most of them are simply doing an online learning on ukrainian platform and we facilitate that. we opened our centers where we provide computers and help them out and teach them polish because many will stay for months, maybe longer. >> what are you hearing about how many more ukrainian refugees may be coming your way? >> this is a problem because we are at capacity and, of course, long term we envision a lot of problems and it puts a strain on the city. but four or five days just talked to people coming from donbas, who are living in the war zone for 7, 8 years saying we are not going to move. but after what they have seen what the russian army done, committed all those atrocities around kyiv they're on the move. so we can envision a second wave. 300 million refugees that's a lot. >> that's incredible. if you look at refugees coming to another country, over a course of time, it might be 500,000, 1 million to sweden over the course of a decade. and sweden gets a medal for that. but 3 million in three months is a different story. >> of course. >> who pays for it and should it be poland's problem? >> that's why i'm here to talk to our friends in united states because we need assistance. the ukrainians are fighting for our freedom and we need to do our bit. we are stepping up in poland and warsaw, and we are going to help everyone who needs assistance, but we need help. and my plea to the biden administration and to my colleagues in congress is that the assistance doesn't go only to the central government because of the relations of us with the central government pretty strained but they go to refugees, organizations that are now saving the day and local government. >> there are going to be two big stories as years go on, the lives of refugees, do they continue in poland and the reconstruction of ukraine which we can't think about right now given where we are, but we are still expecting more than the 3 million who are already there. correct? >> exactly. because with the escalation in the east and with 7 million people displaced within ukraine, we can expect another wave. >> and polls are just opening their home there isn't any backlash internally? >> not yet. >> why? >> we know that ukrainians are fighting for our freedom. we know that russians are next door. we've been warning the world for years, i'm hearing we're obsessed with russia, we don't understand the situation. unfortunately history proved us right. these guys are fighting for our values, for the transatlantic alliance. that's why we need to help. nobody is asking questions. but, of course, as this crisis goes on, and the city services are strained because most of my psychologists work with refugees, social service work with refugees, most of my teachers help with refugees, there might be backlash. that's why we need assistance, we need to share the burden. because this conflict is not going to go away tomorrow. and you've seen the cities in ukraine, completely destroyed. in warsaw we know what it means when a city is actually destined to be levelled to the ground what's that's what hitler did to warsaw so we rose like a phoenix from the ashes. so we want to help. >> willie geist in new york has a question for you, mr. mayor. >> mr. mayor, good morning. obviously among the influx of refugees are many children, 200,000 kids are in polish schools with an estimated half million more inside poland but not yet in the schools so you could have to absorb those children as well. is there a long-term plan for kids? given the destruction in ukraine they're not going to be able to go home any time soon? they may be in cities like warsaw for some time. how do you absorb them and give them a good educational experience as long as they're there? >> that's a good question. we need a strategy. what you've seen so far in poland is based on imp improvisation. that's why i made a plea to our american friends and the united nations we need to build a long-term educational strategy. some of the kids who speak a bit of polish entered our schools already but we need to provide an i.t. platform for the rest of them so they can continue their education in ukrainian. and we will be teaching them polish but we need additional teachers, money, infrastructure, so on and so forth. but there's always the sign of hope. more than 100 kids, ukrainian kids were born in warsaw hospitals. so you can see that even in a tragedy there is a sign of hope. but we need assistance, that's for sure. >> mr. mayor, obviously your immediate focus on the refugees. but warsaw and poland at large, of course, not far from the russian border, future russian aggression could impact you as well. we've been talking all morning how there's the push from the united states, the western allies to weaken russia so it can never do this again. how do you foresee the next five, ten, 15, 20 years with russia as your neighbor? >> the most important thing is that putin miscalculated on so many counts because he thought the ukrainian society would be divided, the west would be divided. and, of course, he failed because the west is strong, the west is united. and it needs to stay that way. and this is the most important message that i have to my american colleagues that we need to be tough. because bullies understand just that, nothing else. that's why we need to keep on helping ukraine. we need to show to the russians that we are absolutely committed, because if not, the whole region will be destabilized. i agree with biden administration's what secretary austin said, we need to teach russia a lesson. of course, we need to be cautious about it because we do not want to provoke russia into doing something unpredictable, but we need to be tough. i always repeat that. if president zelenskyy is not panicking, nor should we. >> in terms of the people coming over the border from ukraine into poland, 3,300,000 in your city of warsaw. we had the foreign minister earlier this morning saying that ukraine will pay the price for the safety of the world. poland is paying the price for the ukrainian people who are fleeing this death and destruction. who are you asking for money? is it just for warsaw or poland as a whole? how much is needed? >> just as we need to help ukraine to share the burden, we need to help warsaw and poland. the most important thing is the money goes directly to the first front, the local governments, mayors, but most importantly to the refugees themselves and nongovernmental organizations. i'm meeting people on the hill, i'm meeting secretary pete buttigieg, i'm meeting mike bloomberg tomorrow, meeting american foundations because i need to actually explain what the situation is like and what kind of challenge we are up to and everyone needs to step up. that's a very simple answer. >> how has the response been so far? clearly you have some pretty high level meetings happening right now. >> the response is really very positive. and, of course, the most important thing is the security guarantees and that's why the words of president biden were so important that every inch of nato territory would be defended. a pledge to take in 100,000 refugees to the united states of america, i know how difficult that decision is in in the midst of your immigration debate. now we need to talk about financial assistance, also know how, sharing the data and experiences. and most of the people i talked to are ready to do that. that's why i'm here and trying to convince people this is a challenge we need to face together. >> political question for poland, which was pretty divided before this war began, if that's safe to say. is this refugee crisis and the situation in ukraine uniting poland -- pols in a way perhaps we haven't seen in a while? >> this is a tough question. on the question of ukraine, yes, we are together. when it comes to helping ukrainian refugees we are together. you have to remember the populous government was undermining the rule of law, attacking free media and so forth. i submit to you we need to be the strongest democracy ever now when we are, you know, at the eastern flank of the nato alliance. we need to be the strongest. we cannot be weak. that's why i'm also telling my american friends that they cannot forget what the government was doing and is doing when it comes to undermining the judiciary, attacking the free media and so forth. pressure must be kept on the government so they change their behavior and start strengthening democracy. this is all about values at the end of the day and ukrainians are dying for those values. so we need to fight that in the european union -- >> and the united states as well. >> of course. the mayor of warsaw, thank you for being on with us. great to see you. >> thank you very much. >> i know you spend time with my brother in poland. send him my regards. >> indeed. let's hear more from the interview with ukraine minister of foreign affairs. take a listen. >> there's been talk this could go on in some form, this conflict, invasion, aggression by russia for years to come. how are you looking at this war in terms of a time line you have to stop and rebuild your country but before that you have to stop the invasion in the east. how long are you settling in for this war to go on? >> we didn't expect this war to last for months, now we are in the third months of the war. we don't have the luxury to make any estimates. as i said, we will fight until we win because if we lose there will be no ukraine. but this victory may be much closer than anyone might think, if we support all the weapons, especially heavy weapons like western tanks, planes, howitzers which the united states and other countries are already sending to us. and if there are no restrictions on the sanctions that have to be imposed on russia. oil embargo, gas embargo, disconnecting all russian banks from international financial system. the sooner this is done, the sooner we will win. we'll have more ahead from that interview, including his message for the russian people. that's ahead in the fourth hour of "morning joe." still to come, a new revealing picture of how donald trump's inner circle worked behind the scenes to try to overturn the 2020 election. and newly released footage shows the aftermath of the fatal movie set shooting involving actor alec baldwin. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watc" we'll be right back. time. it's life's most precious commodity, especially when you have metastatic breast cancer. when your time is threatened, it's hard to invest in your future. until now. kisqali is helping women live longer than ever before when taken with an aromatase inhibitor or fulvestrant... in hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer. kisqali is a pill that's proven to delay disease progression. kisqali can cause lung problems, or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain... a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. avoid grapefruit during treatment. your future is ahead of you, so it's time to make the most of it with kisqali. because when you invest in yourself, everyone gets the best of you. do you think any of us will look back in our lives, and regret the things we didn't buy? 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brain. call if you have waited longer than four hours for jfk junior to come come from the dead. from the makers of horse medication for people. >> available at walgreens. >> from jimmy kimmel. a series of text messages shows how far trump and his allies were willing to go to overturn the 2020 election. the texts were turned over by mark meadows and published by cnn. jason miller flagged meadows about an email mill said he sent about voting machines, lots there regarding functionality problems, not much there on conspiracy connections. will defer to you on whether or not to share full report with potus. potus is hyped up on them, not just his tweets but he called me and justin separately last night to complain. miller likely talking about justin clark, a trump 2020 campaign lawyer. miller did not respond to a question for comment. on november 19th. records show meadows texted brad raffensperger to ask him to you call the white house. a spokesman for brad raffensperger said the secretary of state did not recall that text message but recalled a december 19th text message asking him to call the white house. the spokesman said brad raffensperger thought it was a prank and did not respond. trump got ahold of him weeks later on january 2nd where he made the infamous request. >> i only need 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, you've recalculated. >> all on tape january 9, 2021. there was also communication between meadows and congresswoman marjorie taylor greene she texted, good morning, mark. i'm here in d.c. we have to get organized for the 6th. i would like to meet with rudy giuliani again. we didn't get to speak with him long. also, anyone who can help. we are getting a lot of members on board and need to lay out the best case for each state. that's a text message from marjorie taylor greene to mark meadows. january 17th, greene again, in our private chat several are saying the only way to save our republic is for trump to call for marshall law, misspelled there. i wanted you to tell them they stole this election they all know they will destroy our country next. please tell him to declassify as much as possible so we can go after biden and anyone else. marjorie taylor greene again there. there were messages sent to meadows on january 6th as members of congress, donald trump jr. and former chief of staff reince priebus and others asked him to get trump to call off supporters. the january 6th committee refused to confirm the texts or comment on them. joining us is george conway, reporter for "the washington post" jackie allimani, an nbc contributor and associate editor of "the washington post" eugene robinson. george, let me start with you, none of this is perhaps surprising but it is stunning to see it laid out so explicitly in detail in real time. a group of people coordinating with the white house, with mark meadows, with the president of the united states to stage a coup. >> it's absolutely stunning. and it -- but also surprising at the same time. the reason is simple, he was the gate keeper, didn't keep many people out, the gate keeper to donald trump. when you wanted to get information to trump you went through him, and everybody did that. it shows that the members of congress who were in on trying to disrupt the proceedings on january 6th. the rally organizers, people on the political campaign all did that, they all went through meadows. that's why we have it. >> if you look at the texts, there's thousands of them, and some of these just show how stupid and destructive and misguided these people are, who are elected officials, let alone the trump supporters, who, you know, rallied at the capitol, stormed it, assaulted it, defecated on it. ultimately there's some sort of cult like, there's some sort of spell that he has that causes smart people to go against everything they know about this country and everything they know about the constitution. i guess some of them might not know these facts and do this. but what will these text messages do to help lead to any type of conclusion, accountability, because right now it's the people -- it's the people on the lowest level of this sort of hierarchy under trump who are paying the price for trumpism. >> that's absolutely right. i think the reason is they haven't gotten all the evidence from people like meadows and meadows is refusing to cooperate. >> what happens? legally. >> legally they're going to prosecute him for criminal contempt, there's a referral to the justice department. but probably he'll waltz this out and we won't get his testimony. there's testimony from other people they've gotten the text messages create a trail as to who are the other witnesses. there are still also a thousand emails or texts that he withheld, that meadows withheld in december when he produced this tranche of 2,319 texts. >> what can you add from your reporting to this? >> i think this massive leak, kudos to cnn for getting this tranche of text messages, could potentially do is pressure the committee to go ahead and subpoena sitting members of congress who they have yet to apply their aggressive tactics to because of some legal concerns, timing concerns, and fear of the boomerang that come november, these leaders -- there were other 40 different current and former members of congress that mark meadows was communicating with in those text messages and according to court filings released last week who could go unscathed and not be punished by the committee in any way or called in because they're worried about a retribution in november if the republicans win back the house majority and then start subpoenaing democrats. >> what am i missing, gene? >> what do we expect republicans to do if they take the house in any event? >> right. >> that would be my argument. they're already, you know, threatening -- rumbling about impeachments of cabinet members. if they take the house, they're going to have committee after committee after committee investigating this administration, investigating the investigation, it's going to be like that i think no matter what if the republicans take the house. >> just hours after a violent mob of trump supporters broke into the united states capitol and attempted to stop the certification of a presidential election, take that in, that happened, it's hard to believe, even today, even though we saw it, then senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, said he was, quote, exhilarated, the insurrection could potentially hurt donald trump. here's how "the washington post" reports on his comments. quote, i feel exhilarated by the fact that this fellow finally, totally discredited himself. mcconnell told jonathan martin, when asked about his feelings on the violence of the rioters he put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. the book, as reported by "the washington post," alleges mcconnell asked martin what he heard about invoking the 25th amendment and that he had spoken with democratic leadership about issuing a joint statement telling trump not to attend the inauguration. the authors write that senator mcconnell planned to cut into trump's influence in the gop in the upcoming midterms similar to how we weeded out far right candidates in had 2014. we crushed the sons of -- you know whats -- he said to martin according to the book. adding and that's what we're going to do in the primary for '22. despite his strong stance against trump and the immediate aftermath of january 6th, just weeks later, mcconnell voted with the majority of senate republicans to absolve him of any punishment. mcconnell's office declined to comment on the quotes when asked by nbc news. they don't care. you know deep inside from this reporting that it was like the witch is dead, thank god we can move on with our lives, finally he's gone. but then when he's not, they fall back into form. >> none of them are willing to do anything about it. >> why? >> that's the question. this is the moment they had been waiting for and he was the one who could have stuck the final knife into trump by holding an early impeachment trial and ultimately by convicting him. and he didn't do it because he thought, he's going to go away on his own, did it to himself. he must have been confident of that at the moment to say it to a "the new york times" reporter. >> it's also political survival. it happened in weeks. they saw the trump base, the republican base didn't care. and they flipped really quickly. at least publically. the comment he made to jonathan martin in private, you know, came ahead of his comments he made publically after trump's impeachment. he saw his blistering speech on the floor. but after that, they made the determination that it was in their interest of the republican party to continue to support donald trump. >> but that is a choice, though. coming up, it is one of the most harrowing images in the war in ukraine. a wounded woman rushed by stretcher from a hospital that was bombed by russia. both she and the child she was carry didn't survive. up next we look at how maternity centers are being targeted by the kremlin. aternity centers are being targeted by the kremlin. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling. hiv pills aren't on my mind. a quick change in my plans is no big deal. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva 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general's office. trump has been ordered now to pay $10,000 a day until he turns over documents that have been subpoenaed by new york attorney general leticia james. james' office has been investigating the trump organization's business practice for more than two years she previously said the trump organization engaged in fraudulent or misleading practices. james called the ruling a major victory, adding the investigation will continue undeterred because she said no one is above the law. a lawyer for the former president said we disagree with the court's decision and intend to appeal. joining us now reporter tom winter. good to see you. the odds as you said a moment ago that trump is going to pay $10,000 a day are close to zero, perhaps. let's remind our viewers what this is all about, first of all. what are the documents and what is attorney general james pursuing here? >> this is tide to the civil investigation, not the criminal investigation led by the manhattan's district attorney's office. they're looking into whether or not the president valued his personal properties. that's what she focused on at this point. at this stage of the investigation, she's had several filings that have come out and said we have reason to believe, pitching the court essentially saying look we believe we should be able to depose the former president and his children, they think they found instances where properties were not valued correctly, there were other issues that may have run afoul from the law. nobody is going to jail over what has been uncovered so far-off of her investigation. on march 31st, the president had a deadline to meet where he had to provide certain documents, certain personal documents, this doesn't pertain to the trump organization, this is pertaining directly to trump's own personal response to what the court has ordered here. we're talking about the post it notes he puts on top of documents he sends to staff. we know that he is not somebody who sends around emails to various members of the trump organization. so they want the documents to see if they can continue to move forward in their investigation in the case. they asked for that. the judge did not make it retroactive so he's not having to pay back to march 31st. this order of contempt is for yesterday's decision and ongoing. but as you read, willie, his attorneys have promised to appeal here and they could get a stay of these fines pending that appeal. so it's quite possible the president is not on the financial meter as we speak. >> we joked about his unwillingness to pay for anything. but he may have to down the road. is she getting any cooperation from the president himself or the trump organization? >> they have turned over some documents. the totality of documents in the new york ag's office totals in the millions, i'm not exaggerating. it's millions of pages of documents they've been able to uncover until the course of the investigation. they have complied but there are areas they fought. certainly fought for him sitting for a deposition. they have fought on that front. various points they have sought to slow down the investigation. >> tom, while we have you. you mentioned the criminal case. there's been a lot of back and forth, a lot of consternation, some of the prosecutors quit suggesting there wouldn't be a case. can you give us an idea where that stands? >> i have no reporting at all, which could change in five minutes, five hours, five months, no reporting that indicates they are close or have the information needed to bring forward a criminal case against the former president of the united states. there's nothing that indicates that they are there. they say the investigation is ongoing. we are aware of no overt efforts they have undertaken to bring forward this case. so right now they just don't have it. >> tom winter is all over this story for us. we'll check back in soon. good to see you. coming up, domestic policy adviser susan rice joins the investigation. and steve kornacki has been combing through the archives for the best moments in presidential debates. why? because they may become a thing of the past. the latest in the rnc efforts to dictate how the candidates will face off in 2024. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back in a moment finding the perfect designer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in austin between a dog named klaus and her favorite shade of green. it's actually salem clover. and you can find her right now on upwork.com when the world is your workforce, finding the perfect project manager, designer, developer, or whomever you may need... tends to fall right into place. find top-rated talent who can start today on upwork.com allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from who can start today overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. waxed. natural. sensitive. new dove ultimate antiperspirant. our unique water based formula and 6x more glycerin. helps restore skin to its best condition. new dove ultimate. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ since the start of russia's invasion many pregnant women in ukraine have had to give birth in places they would have never expected from the inside of subway stations to bomb shelters. we have more on the country's rise in premature deliveries. >> reporter: pregnant women who are forcibly displaced from their homes, including refugees, are often facing a tremendous amount of physical and mental stress. the united nations population fund estimated 80,000 ukrainians will give birth in the next few months as the conflict in ukraine escalates, expecting mothers and their newborns remain in trouble. a consulting psychologist in warsaw, poland who treats new mothers from ukraine. >> they're traumatized by their experiences, and talk about days or weeks they had to spend in shelter, in bunker. they are also terrified of what's happening to their families who are left in ukraine. >> reporter: displacement and the stress of war putting many at the risk of high risk pregnancies. >> it's connected to the stress hormones so when you have a situation where the mother is stressed, you have risk of preterm births. we have seen an increase in preterm births and stillbirths and the conditions we hear in ukraine and hospitals, there is increased risk of infection even a trauma. >> reporter: those conditions include war-torn medical facilities. confirming over 100 attacks on health care facilities in ukraine since the start of the invasion. from mariupol, kharkiv to a northwest city, a medical director in kharkiv telling the premature births have increased threefold and account for half of all deliveries at her prenatal clinic. a medical officer for aamerican care, a organization that has deployed over 20 tons of medical supplies to ukraine since the start of the war. >> there is also the aspect of there is disruption to natal care so the routine checks that they go through right during the pregnancy and especially woman who have some kind of underlying disease like hypertension or diabetes who need more frequent visits are not having that and so you have these undetected or untreated conditions that are further complicating pregnancy and all of those conditions can lead to preterm birth. >> and with an increase in complicated pregnancies come a need for specialized care. >> their lungs tend to be not as well developed and so they often need quite a bit of breathing support. we need things like, you know, breathing circuits and c pap machines and lung medicines that could support newborn breathing after a premature birth. >> life saving medical equipment needed in hospitals that are already severely strained and in some cases gone altogether. e alr >> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? 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>> no, i'm not. >> for the first time we're hearing his exchanges with investigators. >> i was holing the gun, yeah. >> as crime scene technicians photographed baldwin, they retrieved video evidence. deputies say this clip during rehearsal shows baldwin drawing his resolver moments before the fatal shot was fired. >> a flustered hannah guiterrez reed, the armorer seems to be surprised when she's told baldwin was holding the gun. >> he had the gun. >> alec baldwin did? >> yeah. >> cameras were rolling dower during interviews where guiterrez made a phone call before speaking to investigators. >> [ inaudible ]. and i checked and they were out. >> when rounds rattle it an indication that the ammunition is a dummy round. but investigators say several live bullets which don't rattle were found on set. >> most people just aren't away of the exact nature of reloading. >> and during the interview with the ammunition provider seth kenny provided deputies a series of old text messages where hannah reed had asked for live ammo during the filming of a previous movie that was not allowed on said. >> and i said no, obviously. >> this morning a clearer picture into a complex investigation and the till unanswered questions, how did live rounds get on to a movie set. >> that was nbc's miguel almaguer with that report. this is just about the top of the hour now on this tuesday, april 26th as we roll into the fourth hour of "morning joe." this morning the u.n. refugee agency is upping its projection for ukrainian refugees. now expecting 8.3 million people to flee the country this year. that is one in every five ukrainians. the situation is getting much worse, too. particularly in eastern ukraine. where the governor of the donetsk region said russian forces are attacking along the entire front line. in mariupol, the second largest city in the region, ukrainian forces hold up in a steel plant say russia is stepping up its attacks. they say russia has launched nearly three dozen air strikes on that one plant in just the past 24 hours. along with those ukrainian fighters, roughly a thousand civilians were also trapped there. hiding in basements. trying to escape the shelling. about six miles north of the city, the mayor of mariupol said a third mass grave has been identified. this is satellite imagery of the site. authorities are still trying to estimate the number of civilians buried there, but across the city officials have said that the death toll could be as high as 20,000 people. >> meanwhile the u.n. secretary general is in mosque you could this morning pushing for a cease-fire. he met with sergei love rov and is expected to meet with him later today. and they say it is too early to talk about mediation and no evidence so far of their commitment to that diplomatic solution. that comes a day after startling new comments about the threat of nuclear war. in an interview broadcast on state television on monday, lavrov said this, quote, the risks are significant, the dangerous is serious, it is real. it should not be underestimated. this morning we spoke with ukrainian's minister of foreign affairs and we asked him about the rhetoric coming out of russia right now. >> well this is russia's traditionally scare mongering that no one should be afraid of. ukraine has demonstrated we're not afraid of russia and we know how to win and neither the united states or anyone else in the world should be afraid of them either. the response to such blackmailing coming from the russian federation

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