the immigration at the capitol. beto o'rourke joins me with his response. i am jonathan capehart, happy easter, this is "the sunday show." y easter, this is "the sunday show." >> this sunday the desperate fight to retain the battered port city of mariupol continues. deadline by the russians demanding ukrainian troops in the city lay down here arms have come and gone with no signs of surrender. in a video message president volodymyr zelenskyy says negotiations are underway. the russians can't be trusted and that citizens blocked from evacuating are facing, quote, "inhuman conditions." joining me now live from lviv, nbc news' ralph sanchez, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." any news of those remaining ukrainian soldiers? >> reporter: jonathan, they have fought literally to their last bullet. this is a group of ukrainian marines and fighters that, that far right group who have been leading the defense of mariupol. they outnumbered and surrounded in the remains of what is the largest steel plant in europe. as you said the russians demanded that they surrender by 6:00 a.m. local time but that deadline came and went without the white flag being raised over that sealed plant. it is not clear how much longer they can hold on. we actually spoke to an officer from the regiment back on wednesday and the situation for them was already dire then. take a listen to what he had to say. >> we'll fight as long as we'll have to fight. we have orders. we need more supplies, we need more ammunition, we need more medical care for our wounded. >> reporter: now jonathan, taking mariupol would be a major prize for vladimir putin and would also be kind of a chance for him to reset the narrative after the humiliation forced his suffer out on the black sea with the sinking of the moskaf. president zelenskyy seems to acknowledged the end is coming for the defense of mariupol. the forces there fought heroically. he warns if russian troops massacre the remaining troops, he'll break off peace negotiations. ukraine's government is trying to open the humanitarian corridor letting the hundreds of thousands that are still left. the russians refused to allow anyone coming out. the city is unimaginably grim. the u.n. is warning people have been starving the death. they have been reduced to drinking filthy water. it is a nightmare on mariupol. the brink of falling to russian troops. jonathan. >> ralph sanchez, thank you very much for coming to us on this sunday show. joining us now, european command and retired officer for the u.s. army, general, thank you for coming back onto "the sunday show." if mariupol does fall to the russians, what would the significance be for each side? >> yes, it would be a huge strategic victory for the russians. out of ukraine's 18 ports, mariupol is the fifth largest port out of the 18. the other thing is the majority of coal and steel go through the mariupol port as well. it will signal a huge victory for the russians and also they need mariupol in order to complete their connections to crimea and so mariupol would be key for the russians there. on the ukrainian side, obviously this would be the first major blow in terms of a tactical victory for the ukrainians. and so, i want acknowledge the courage and bravery of these soldiers, these marines that are in mariupol. it appears to me they are prepared to fight until their last breath there, jonathan. >> general twitty, we have been talking all week of the russians shifting their focus to the donbas region. it has been seen as a tactical advantage to putin compares to the failures he faced in western ukraine particularly in kyiv. why is that the case? >> what i would tell you, i would not call it a tactical advantage. you saw the mistakes the russians made up in kyiv. they're still going to be poorly trained and discipline problems and lodgistic problem. this is not a superman outfit that suddenly stops in ukraine. went to belarus and elsewhere and now they're going to come back in and be superior. they'll have the advantage of is the ability to mass a lot of tanks and artillery and armor vehicles and open planes and they're extremely familiar with the train there having fault there since 2014. it is not to say that the ukrainians can't win. we are getting equipment to them. as equipment arrives in ukraine is one thing. equipment has to get into the hands of the soldiers so they can use them. there is a different story. and so as we talk about it arriving in ukraine, let's talk more so about arriing in the hands of soldiers so the soldiers can take that equipment and be prepared to fight. >> what kind of weapons do the ukrainians need to stand a fighting chance against the russians in the east and to pick up on what you were talking about, are there concerns that eventhough the weapons get into ukraine that those weapons are not getting to the soldiers? >> well, i will take kyiv here. your last question first. it is not that there is a concern, just remember the enemy gets the vote and in this case here russia can pick up on the movement of that equipment can strike them. they can also strike the rail system and the transport systems that all these equipment moving about on the road and so forth. let's remember russia can get a vote here if they identify the equipment through their intelligence. the other question you asked, the artillery pieces, their counter radars, the rdars they are receiving, that'll allow the ukrainians to pick up on artillery and they'll be able to strike back. the drones they are receiving. the so-called switchblade drones. superior technology that'll allow them to identify where the tanks are located and artillery pieces are located and strike deep at the logistic package. this package, $800 million package that's coming now. that's a pretty good package. i prefer seeing helicopters coming in as well the mig 29s coming in so they can have air capability but this coming in is a good start. >> general the witty, you are a former commander of the european command. how seriously should the west taking the threat of placing nuclear weapons in the baltics if sweden and finland joined nato? >> this is a constant rally for vladimir putin. they already have nuclear weapons, they have nuclear weapons. we take a look at the bering sea and the north sea. they routinely transits the bering sea with their nuclear submarines. the nuke weapons they have throughout russia can already impact europe. this is rhetoric verses pushing nuclear weapons forward when they already have nuclear capabilities that can strike throughout europ in its current form. >> so general twitty, where we sit right now, how likely is it do you think that vladimir putin would use a tactical nuclear weapon on the people of ukraine? >> well, it is always likely and as you can see they have a total disregard for the ukrainian people. and so, that increases the likelihood obviously and so i would rule that out. what i would tell you as president biden has said, there will be a response if there is weapons or mass destruction used in ukraine. that has to play in the capitalist of president putin every single day. he thinks about using chemical weapons or tactical news. >> thank you very much for coming on this "sunday show," general twitty. >> good to see you. >> coming up, mayor eric adams is stopping on our sunday show. keep it right here. sunday show keep it right here bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. call your doctor about sudden behavior changes or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor if latuda is right for you. pay as little as zero dollars for your first prescription. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. frank james faces a terrorism charge after shooting people and injuring many others. that man joins me now, the 110th mayor of the city of new york, mayor eric adams. >> thank you for being back with you. >> after last week's incident, crimes on new york city transit is up 73%. >> it is crucial because as you know the transit system is as life blood of our city and we have put in place what i believe are the foundational parts of having a real public safety plan apparatus, everything from deploying police directly to dealing with the mental health and homelessness crisis on our system to insure that officers receive specific information on what we expect from them. that's how important the ominous threats, making sure those passages are seen by officers. i can't say enough that many rivers feed the sea of violence. you see this violence taken place all over our country. it is not a red state or blue state conversation. we look at tulsa, tulsa has three times as much as homicides as los angeles. the largest places we see gun violence are in our red states as well. we must have a national and local approach through this. >> mr. mayor, one of the things unnerve workers and as a former new yorker, what happened in the subway system earlier this week is one of the big nightmares in new york's residents, relying on the subway. what do you say to new yorkers and with a new mayor, that the city is spiraling out of control. >> no, the city was far from that. i was in the city when it spiralled out of the control. during in the '80s and mid-90s, we were part of the comeback. that's not what we facing at this time. i can't point enough to the nypd doing their job. we took 1800 guns off the street since i have been the mayor. 4,000 felony arrests, we have a criminal justice system that's clogged. many of these people are arrested are back on the streets because the courts are not opened. we have laws that unfortunately not zeroing in on those who are violent offenders. so the nypd doing its job and new yorkers are doing their job, we saw and all came together to apprehend this dangerous person. we have to focus on mental health issues that's neglected for far too long. this city is far from spiraling out of control, we'll get crime under control and deal with those pathways that need the criminal behaviors in our city. >> let's talk more about mental health, how do you address mental health issues that are plaguing many new yorkers familiarly in those who are homeless? it is a combination of we can't just prophecize about it. we need to open more beds and talk about the closing of mental health beds. they were used for medical needs, covid, now we need to get more beds online. we have to abandon the belief that it is dignifying people living on the streets. this is unacceptable in our city. we are not going to allow it to happen. we have to match it treatment beds, safe haven beds. that's what we are doing. we are going to face this crisis head on and not ignore it. >> how is governor hochul as a partner to address public safety and mental health and crime in the city? >> i can't thank her enough. i went to albany to push through some regional tweaks through the criminal justice package which was a worthy cause put in place. far too many people had methods used against us. she understood it, it was something that could not accomplish. we were able to make good moves in the right direction. i think there is more to do. she's been a great assistant around, looking actually the laws around how we deal with people with mental health issues. she's been a partner in the area and we'll continue to partner with her as we deal with these real issues that the city is facing, covid, crime, our economy, you need a partner in albany to accomplish this. >> mr. mayor, you are walking a fine line between protecting public safety and protecting civil liberties, are you going to be able to keep your promise that in your effort to bring crime down and address the plague of gun violence in this city that new yorkers, civil liberties, particularly civil liberties of african-americans will be protected? >> well, you know, that's where i cut my teeth in, fighting on behalf of overagressive abusing. we are not going to do that 35 plus years and move away from it. we can have the justice we deserve if the safety we need. what will we are facing in cities across america is so much emphasis on those who are breaking the law. we need to start also focusing on those who are doing the right thing and victims of lawbreakers. let's start focusing on those innocent people who have been victimized my small number of violent people as we get them the help they need. we need to protect everydaynew yorkers and everyday americans. >> eric adams, thank you very much for coming back to "the sunday show." >> i hope you are feeling well. >> thank you. the controversial trump era immigration policy that deported hundreds of thousands of migrants is coming to an end. republicans and some democrats are now calling for title 42 to stay in place. beto o'rourke joins me live to discuss in a sunday show ex clue exclusives. exclusives scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. nothing like a weekend in the woods. it's a good choice all around, like screening for colon cancer... when caught in early stages it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive... and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers... even in early stages. early stages. yep. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. we're in. my little family is me, aria, and jade. just the three of us girls. i never thought twice about feeding her kibble. but about two years ago, i realized she was overweight. she was always out of breath. that's when i decided to introduce the farmer's dog to her diet. it's just so fresh that she literally gets bubbles in her mouth. now she's a lot more active she's able to join us on our adventures. and we're all able to do things as a family. ♪♪ get started at longlivedogs.com liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for whatchya... line? need. liberty biberty— cut. liberty... are we married to mutual? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ donald trump's controversial pandemic era policy that restricted immigration. an influx of migrants is expected to arrive at the border once the policy ends in may. democrats protested title 42 and now it seems like they're having second thoughts of president biden's border move. joining me now is democratic candidate for texas, beto o'rourke. thank you for coming on the show. >> good morning. >> before we talk about title 42, let me get your reaction of greg abbott. >> this is another political stunt that abbott have pulled off. it is a peace of his activation of 10,000 members of the national guard who he deployed to the texas medical border where they have no power to arrest or detain but four of those guard men taken their own lives since activated. they have been taken away from their families and communities and their kids. he shutdown all commercial traffic coming into the united states which is spiking inflation and killing businesses along the border and ensuring higher prices for texas consumers and more supply shortages for those who want to buy groceries, he's hurting the state and providing no additional benefits from security or safety. that's why so many people in texas want to change. >> beto, you have a video response to what's been happening in texas. let's watch this. >> fruits and vegetables rotting on semitrucks. >> economic k chaos. >> policies is impacting texas economy. the owner is saying this is literally killing my business. >> we are living through a nightmare. >> financial pain is necessary. and that's a video representation of everything you were talking about in response to my first question. i want to turn our attention to title 42. you don't think it is a good idea for the biden administration to end title 42, why? >> no, i think it is time to end title 42. i don't think we should never implemented it. it is a cynical reading of u.s. laws that have done nothing to improve public health or safety. when i listen to border patrol agents, they tell me it increases the number of migrants crossing and increase more chaos because jonathan, as you know those agents are forced to turn away those migrant seekers of processing them and detaining them or applying them asylum. they are crossing again and again every single day of the week. the challenge for the biden administration is to make sure we have the capacity in our border communities to process those who'll now be able to lawfully claim or seek to claim asylum in this country. when you listen to mayors and sheriff in the communities like del rio, texas, they don't have the capacity to handle this right now. i know the administration can come up with something. jonathan, yes, it is time to end title 42. let's make sure we are doing it responsively. >> beto o'rourke, as always, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." >> thank you. joining me now is maria hinojosa, great to see you again. people come back again and again. >> let me tell you about a woman i met yesterday on the mexican side just attempted and got stuck in the desert and separated because the border patrol is coming after group and ended upcoming back to the small town. it was sent back and she's attempted, this was her third time. she's coming to be reunited with her child who was being held in san antonio. i think it is important, the word cynical was used by beto o'rourke, it is an important word because people here feel it is cynical that these people who are coming do not pose any threat and as oppose to what beto o'rourke just said, the people of tucson, the ngos are saying we are ready and we are prepared and we have it figured out. we do not feel threaten. >> the biden administration, that's one of the other things beto o'rourke was talking about. he thinks title 42 should be ended but he wants to know the plan to deal with folks that are coming over the border. what would an ideal border policy be once title 42 ends in may? >> well, jonathan, let me say this. with all due respect, president biden has been doing politics for more times than i have been a journalist. i have been a journalist for over three decades. none of this is a surprise for him or his administration. if the united states is in fact the most organized, modern technological advance country under this administration, all you need to do is put the people on the ground to start doing the work. again, have the u.s. government work with all the ngos that are prepared to do this work. what is important jonathan, people think oh my god, tens of thousands of people are coming. it is going to be disorganize. the people who are coming. the overwhelming majority have people who are waiting for them here in the united states. family members, probably even a place to live and a job. let's get that straight and the one thing the biden administration can start to do is correct the narrative. this is not a threat. he's a welcoming president, we are a welcoing country or we are no. tnot. >> that's a key point. we are not a threat country. the previous administration used every tool to stop immigration. do you think the biden administration is actually doing a better job on the rhetorical side of communicating to americans in particular but the rest of the world that the folks who are trying to be reunited family members as you say are not a threat. >> no, i am sorry, jonathan. i am very sorry to have to say this and i know the administration really dislike it when i say this. the one thing they need to do is get the narrative straight and correct. joe biden had so many opportunities, when we saw haitians being whipped by men on horses. that would have been this moment to stand in front of the horse and say this stops, never again. we'll reform border patrol entirely top to bottom. he has so many opportunities to hug the children, i see you and i love you. i see the moms. there are so many opportunities. again, it is advance government and they know how to make things happen. they can make things happen when they determine that it is important. this is humanity. they are sending people, jonathan, the people i saw yesterday came this close to death. they were returned because of title 42. they were in the deserts. they pose no threat. they were this close to death because of u.s. policies. so, that is what the biden administration represents right now. they have every opportunity to change it. >> maria hinojosa, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you. when it comes to the economy, there is good news and the bad news. my guest explains, don't go anywhere. explains, don't go anywhere his comments came after the labor department reported inflation hit 8.5%. highest it has been in four years. however, it seems inflation may have hit its peak, the problem is not everybody is buying the peak inflationary activity. joining me now is andrew ross sorkin, welcome back to "the sunday show." >> great to see you jonathan. >> why is inflation so high? is vladimir putin to blame for the hike in gas prices? >> that's part of it and gas prices were higher. the good news is those prices are coming down. what really happen and we see it now throughout the pandemic and over the last year that things have come back. we had two few supplies. also in supply terms of human capital and labor, that's a problem on one end. on the other end, this huge demand. there is a view that people are getting on airplanes and doing stuff and there is a little bit of yolo in all of this. everybody is out there buying things and buying stuff. that's good news in some way of the economy but creates a conundrum because what it means is higher prices. >> right. do you think though we hit the peak of inflation or do we have more months of high inflation rates? >> look, i think we are going to see high inflation. is it going to get higher than where we are right now? maybe not. when i told you of 7% or 6%, people would say they're feeling it. they're feeling it in part because wages have gone up, inflation have gone up even more. whether it is 8.5 or 6. people are going to say we are at higher inflation levels than we have historically been. the goal is always to be around 2% for context. >> i think i have been reading the stories wrong. i could have sworn i read the story that there is a tiny glimmer of hopes that could simmer the start of inflation coming down. was i reading stuff wrong? >> no. if you look at the issue of gas prices have come down. automobiles, cost for used cars and new cars have come down. lumber have started to come down. you are starting to see a little bit and some wories on the other side, i am talking about retailers and other manufactures have over-ordered so they may have more products in the warehouse. that could spiral the wrong direction in the other direction. maybe that'll help with inflation. there are signs of it in certain places but still unclear of where things land. . > the federal reserve is expected to raise interest rates. when do you expect to do that? >> everybody is expecting it and it is out there as an expectation. how fast do they do it and as you know they raise interest rates, loans become that much more expensive for everybody. that's their way of pumping brakes. we want to actually decrease demand which is an unusual thing for the federal reserve and politically for anybody to do. we are actually making it harder for people to borrow money to buy things. >> to our point, andrew, people are out there, they're buying stuff and traveling and doing all sorts of things. that's the one thing that the federal reserve has in its power to basically to stop us from buying stuff. >> it is a proverse idea that the government is trying to reduce demand. you had your segment of what's happening the texas in terms of trucks coming through and what it means. that's the flip side of it. stuff like that is increing prices at the same time that some other prices are coming down. >> andrew sorkin, we got to go. i want to thank you for coming back on our sunday show. >> i love spending time with you. >> i will have you back. after the break, planned parenthood, the supreme court reconsiders roe v. wade. e court reconsiders roe v. wade. stick with zyrtec. zyrtec starts working hard at hour one... ...and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. zyrtec. muddle no more. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. ♪ ♪ can a company make the planet a better place? 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(♪ ♪) ask your healthcare provider about rybelsus® today. the supreme court allow to go into effect even as it faces legal challenges. joining me now to explain this landscape is president johnson of planned parenthood. thank you for coming on our show. we see what happens in oklahoma. talk about the states that have trigger laws that would go into effect if roe v. wade is overturned. >> absolutely. a state like michigan that had 1930s laws on the books. it will revert back to banning access to abortion and so while we have a number of states as you mentioned from florida signing at 15-week ban to oklahoma, signing at a total abortion ban and criminalizing providers up to 10 years in prison along with $100,000 fine. we also have states like michigan where the governor is suing to ensure that we can expand access in states. so, to name the emboldenment is absolutely right. i think we need to be emboldened on all sides of this. >> you mentioned michigan doing one thing that helped secure abortion rights access. what other states are trying to do the same thing that michigan is doing? >> well, maryland, just this week, expanded access by allowing other clinicians to provide care. you know, we have new jersey just recently passed reproductive freedom act that also codified roe. and california has continued to push the boundaries in expanding access to care. so we see a number of states in light of what is happening and, you know, as you mentioned, we are 7 1/2 months into sb-8 in texas, where we actually know what a post-roe world will look like when we will see people needing to travel a thousand miles outside of their own zip code in order to get access to care. and so it's incredibly important as these states, we're looking at upwards of 26 states that could overturn roe or could ban abortion, particularly if roe falls in the next 90 days. and we have a number of states pushing access as well. >> i want to play a match-up of what some republicans are saying to justify what they're doing in terms of limiting women's rights to choose, women's access to reproductive health care. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> we are here today to defend those who can't defend themselves. this will represent the most significant protections for life that have been enacted in this state in a generation. >> we want oklahoma to be the most pro-life state in the country. we want to outlaw abortion in the state of oklahoma. >> we're going to respect life here in kentucky and we're going to protect those who cannot speak for themselves. and i think that is a important responsibility of government. >> president mcgill johnson, your response to governors and a state attorney general, the words they had to say. >> look, politicians can't stop abortions. what they are doing is trying to criminalize the people that are seeking the care and the people who are providing it. and i think that's what we need to understand here. there are consequences to this dangerous rhetoric. we saw it just with the arrest last week with herrera in oklahoma. the governor made a joke about arresting texans coming into the state for abortion care. it has an incredibly harmful chilling effect for those who are seeking access to care. and it's putting the burden on the people seeking access, the people fighting to protect and ensure that people are able to get access, you know, if they can't get it in their state, to get it out of state. so i don't know what to say other than it's incredibly harmful. there is no state in the union where banning access to abortion is popular. and we really need people to understand that they have to hold their lawmakers accountable for what they are doing and creating this harm. >> do you think the supreme court will, indeed, overturn roe v. wade at the end of this session? >> if you listen to the oral arguments, you heard a very clear majority that was willing to let the mississippi 15-week ban stand. and you also heard justices openly question whether or not roe was correctly decided. and so when you take that into consideration, i would never try to read the tea leaves necessarily of the supreme court, but, you know, you do have to, you know, see with respect to all of these states now that are ushering in even greater restrictions. they have become emboldened because they heard those arguments. it is very likely that roe could fall. we know that 80% of americans believe that roe should be the law of the land and believe that lawmakers shouldn't be making these decisions. and yet only 30% believe that roe is going to fall. >> right. >> we have a strong believability gap right now and we need to close that in order to ensure that we can continue to fight. >> alexis mcgill johnson, president of planned parenthood, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you for having me, jonathan. coming up, i'll talk to the former ambassador to nato about russia's strategy and ukraine's surrender in mariupol. plus the trove of new text messages giving a behind the scenes peek at the plot to overturn the 2020 election . and auntie maxine joins our sound-off panel. there is so much more coming up on "the sunday show." ♪ i want the world. ♪ ♪ i want the whole world. ♪ (ceo) ♪ i want today. ♪ ♪ i want tomorrow. ♪ (dispatch) ♪ i want it noooooow! ♪ (vo) get 5g that's ready right now. you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it... usually. ♪♪ in it... mostly. even what gets near your body. please please please take that outside. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 products. rigorously tested. walgreens pharmacist recommended... and particularly kind to your wallet. ♪♪ ♪ ♪ and particularly kind to you♪ ♪allet. welcome back to "the sunday show." i'm jonathan capehart. happy easter. this morning ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is vowing that the russians will be responsible for, quote, everything they did in ukraine. >> translator: i do not believe this wound can be treated or forgotten somehow. i think people have lost the best they had. it is the outcome of russia's war. they came and took away the most important things people had. the ukrainian people are heroic, but are my words going to give them peace? no. >> while the pope in his easter address this morning pleaded for peace in ukraine, in the eastern port city of mariupol, ukrainians seem to be clinging to their last vestiges of control after an overnight surrender deadline by the russians passed, with no indication that ukrainian's forces have laid down their arms . and as the russian invasion continues to squeeze the global supply chain, ukrainian p.m. and other top officials are expected to meet with g7 finance ministers in washington later this week. meanwhile, in eastern district of kyiv, was shelled earlier today, damaging a power station. joining me now from kyiv is nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley. matt, what can you tell us about that explosion in the kyiv region this morning? >> reporter: yeah, jonathan, we were hearing that it was about 5:00 a.m. this morning. it was just outside of the capital of kyiv. but this isn't the first time that this city or the outskirts of this city has been bombed in the last couple of days. ever since the russians withdrew about two weeks ago, leaving this once really quiet city hunkered down, kind of springing back to life. you mentioned that attack just outside the city. shortly after that, the mayor decideds that he was going to shorten the curfew that had been imposed the last several weeks. different things going on in kyiv, actually. we're seeing continuing bombardment. we're still hearing the air raid sirens on the regular. but at the same time there is a much more relaxed atmosphere in the city than there was in the past. you can see it in the streets. you can see it in people walking around. and, again, that shelling that happened outside the city, it wasn't the only shelling that's hit kyiv in the last couple days. it wasn't the only shelling that's been happening outside of the eastern part of the country. that's what the russians have said in just the last week or two that they're going to be focusing their renewed efforts on the east of the country on the donbas region, a part of the country they already seized in 2014. russia had been shelling essentially military production facilities all over the country for the past several days, even as far west as the environs of lviv, seen as a safe haven especially for people trying to flee the violence further east. it's interesting that russia seems to be pounding the rest of the country even though they've withdrawn most of if not all of their ground forces outside of the donbas region. now, it's hard to see why, but we are hearing that it was partly retaliation for the sinking of the flagship vessel that was sunk at port. it was actually shot while it was out at sea in the black sea, and it was a sunken port, a major embarrassment for the russians. it's a flagship, one of the proudest vessels in their navy. they said it hadn't been hit by ukrainians, it sunk on its own because of an accident. this seems like retaliation, and this retaliation could continue. jonathan? >> matt bradley coming to us live from kyiv, ukraine. thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." joining me now, former congresswoman jane harman of california who served on the house armed services, intelligence and homeland security committees. jane is also the author of "insanity defense." and ambassador of the chicago council on global affairs and former united states ambassador too. so, the austrian chancellor was on with russian president vladimir putin earlier in the week. here's what he says in response to chuck todd's question about vladimir putin's thinking about the war. >> i think he is now in his own war logic, you know. he thinks the war is necessary for security guarantees for the russian federation. he doesn't trust the international community. he blames ukrainians for genocide in the donbas region. so, well, he is now in his world, but i think he knows what is going on now in ukraine. >> and now let me play the second clip. this is element two of his response to chuck's question about whether putin thinks he's winning the war. >> does he believe he's winning the war or losing the war? >> no, i think he believes he is winning the war. >> okay. so former congresswoman jane harman, your response to that, that the idea that vladimir putin thinks he's winning this war. >> well, let me say two things first. first, with respect to your last segment, i was elected to congress 30 years ago, jonathan, because of the right to choose. i was in a lean republican seat and republican women voted for me. i think people need to be careful here. this issue is a wedge issue. on this topic, it is easter, and the symbolism of easter to me means the people of mariupol will rise again, and hopefully will stay risen. as to what putin believes, i bet our intelligence community has a good beat on that. i don't think it needs to be on the news. but if he thinks he's winning, he's delusional. he's losing, and this is the time to do exactly what i hope he agrees with me, zelenskyy is begging us to do, not provide more boots on the ground, not air assets out of u.s. air fields, but everything he is asking for to stop the russians now. if we don't stop them now, i predict that any deal that ukraine enters into with them will not be respected, and they'll be on nato's border. this is a better time than waiting. >> okay, ambassador, do you agree with congressman harman? >> i do. i do, and i agree with the austrian chancellor that apparently vladimir putin is living in his own reality, which is very dangerous when you think about it. particularly in that reality is as different from the actual reality as we see on both issues. number one, the idea that somehow this war was necessary for russian security. russian security is less -- is more in danger because of this war than it was prior to it. we're seeing countries like finland and sweden applying for nato membership. we are seeing more military forces on the border of russia in nato countries because they are afraid that russia may attack. and they are losing the war in ukraine as matt's correspondent just showed all of the troops were to occupy half the country including the capital kyiv, have been withdrawn from ukraine. they are reassessing whether they could go and be repositioned to the east. and even in the east, there just isn't a lot of progress being made. and the symbol of being -- losing is that the flagship of the black sea fleet sunk for the first time since 1905 that the flagship of a major military power was sunk by the opponents. this is an embarrassment for the russians. and if vladimir putin thinks he's winning, then as jane said, he's delusional. >> all right. so, let's talk about president biden, because the president's rhetoric, when it comes to putin and what's happening in russia is really interesting. i want you to listen to a series of his statements and we'll talk about it on the other side. >> you're dealing every day with vladimir putin. look at what he's done to these people. what does it make you think? >> he's a butcher. >> for god's sake, this man cannot remain in power. >> you saw what happened in bucha. this war -- he is a war criminal. your family budget, your ability to fill up your tank, none of it should hinge on whether a dictator commits war and genocide a half a world away. >> so, congresswoman harman, butcher, war criminal, dictator, genocide -- talk about the impact of the president, president biden's increased rhetoric against vladimir putin. what is the significance of that? >> well, teddy roosevelt said talk softly and carry a big stick. so i'm more on the big stick side of this. what i would love us to be doing is not just listing the numbers of things that we're sending or the countries that surround nato are sending into ukraine, but show the impact. show missiles being shot down. we've talked about this warship. there are other huge embarrassments for putin. that way it seems those stories getting into russia rather than rhetoric playing into russian propaganda will persuade more russians who need to be rising up here and making clear to their leader that they don't support the war. so my view is, less talk, more action. even more action, as much action as we can possibly move into this country right this minute. and the good news is sweden and finland are now actively considering joining nato. and this means that this alliance will be even stronger than it is. germany has stepped up. one thing we have to worry about is france, which has an election in ten days, have russia interfere in that election. >> the ambassador did mention sweden and finland. ambassador, is the president rhetorically painting putin into a corner, butcher, war criminal, dictator and using the word genocide? >> you know, vladimir putin, if he is in a corner, it's a corner of his own making. it isn't the rhetoric of the president that is putting him there. i agree with jane that you have to be careful with the rhetoric because it raises the stakes. it means very fundamentally that ukraine cannot and must not lose. and, therefore, it is necessary to provide all the equipment that we can in order to allow ukraine to not only defend itself, but to end this war. but the reality, of course, is no matter how much equipment we send in, the russian military is bigger, stronger and more capable than the ukrainian military ever will be if they become less incompetent, a big if, if russian soldiers are willing to fight, another big if, and if their equipment is going to work and can be sustained, another big if, then they are likely to be able to at least occupy the donbas and part of the southern ukraine, and meaning that ukraine is not winning, increasing the pressure on the united states and nato countries to come to ukraine's direct aid. and we want to try to avoid a direct confrontation between the united states and nato on the one hand and russian military forces on the other hand for fear that would escalate into an even bigger -- rhetoric is important to motivate people, but it needs to be matched with the means we're willing to employ to ensure that we achieve our objective. >> i have so many more questions, and zero time. i'm sorry, jane. i've got -- all right, come on. what you got to say, congresswoman harman? >> okay, really fast. i was in munich at the munich security conference just before the war started. zelenskyy was there. he said, don't be appeasers. of course, my hair stood up, my father is a refugee from nazi germany. evo, no, ukraine is winning. let's help them win. russia is bigger, but they're not better. and i think this is the moment to strike even harder than we have. thank you, jonathan. >> that's fine. i'm going to squeeze in this question i was going to ask. considering what the mbassador just said, how realistic is it that nato will remain on the side lines, not come into direct conflict with russia where things are right now? is it realistic that nato will be able to stay out of it? jane, and then ambassador daalder, i'll give you the last word. >> if any form of tactical nukes are used or if a massive cyberattack occurs, it will waft over to poland and they will have to get in. the fact that germany stepped up means that the countries of nato are prepared. >> ambassador daalder, last word, real fast. >> i think we're going to allow the military equipment for the ukrainians to win by them self. jane is right, a nuclear attack, it doesn't matter the territory. it will fundamentally change the nature of the war making it imperative for the united states and nato to intervene and ensure ukraine wins and russia loses. thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." coming up after the break, the treasure trove of january 6 messages from the house senate and the possible legal exposure for sitting members of congress. . allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. after switching to the farmer's dog we noticed so many improvements in remi's health. his allergies were going away and he just had amazing energy. it looks like nutritious food, and it is. i'm investing in my dog's health and happiness. get started at longlivedogs.com as a business owner, your bottom line i'm investing in my dog's is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.™ at xfinity, we live and work in the same neighborhood as you. we're always working to keep you connected to what you love. and now, we're working to bring you the next generation of wifi. it's ultra-fast. faster than a gig. supersonic wifi. only from xfinity. it can power hundreds of devices with three times the bandwidth. so your growing wifi needs will be met. supersonic wifi only from us... xfinity. the january 6 investigation. more members of congress are now implicated. after cnn revealed text messages from senator mike lee and congressman chip roy to then white house chief of staff mark meadows urging donald trump not to concede the election. for example, on november 7th, rory wrote, we need ammo. we need fraud examples. we need it this weekend. there is also reporting from "the new york times" citing people familiar with the investigation that the january 6 committee believes it has enough evidence that trump broke the law, but is split on whether to actually send a criminal referral to d.o.j. joining me now to explain is jill wine-banks, former assistant prosecutor in the watergate, author of "the watergate girl." the question is this. should they make a criminal referral to the d.o.j. on donald trump if they have the evidence? >> i think it would be superfluous and unnecessary. these facts are known to everyone. the department of justice is already aware of them. so why take the chance that it could be perceived as politically motivated if there is a prosecution that follows the referral? a referral is necessary when there is an obstruction of congress and they want a criminal indictment. congress can't do that. but they don't have to make a referral. the roadmap is already in front of the department of justice, and i just -- i just don't see any reason for them to do it. there's nothing that will make them act any faster than the facts that we have all seen. the pictures you're showing right now illustrate what happened, and we don't need a referral. >> and that puts you in the same camp as congressman zoe lofgren of california. this is a quote in the politico piece. a referral doesn't mean anything. it has no legal weight whatsoever. before i move on to the text messages, given your answer, do you think that d.o.j. in the various investigations that it's doing, that it will come to these -- to the conclusion that a crime was committed, and hold those people responsible for the insurrection at the capitol? >> i cannot see how they would fail to do that. the evidence that we see and they see, of course, much more, but just the evidence that you know by reading the newspaper or watching television shows that crimes were committed, and they weren't just those who invaded the capitol. there are the people who planned that event. the people who paid for that event. the people who, months before the election, were already planning to undermine the results. those are crimes against our democracy that need to be pursued. and the evidence now is that the department of justice has expanded its investigation beyond just those who went into the capitol and desecrated it and committed violence that resulted in injury to over 150 police officers, to the deaths of some. i think that they are now moving in the right direction. so i think they can and will and should hold accountable everybody who is responsible for what happened, not just in terms of the danger and the violence, but in terms of the threat to democracy, to overturning the will of the people. >> all right. let's talk about these text messages. i want to put up on the screen some of the text messages from congressman chip roy. dude, we need ammo. i read that in the intro. you see the rest there. but the more colorful one you is the one sent on january 6. this is a blank show, fix this now. this is to then white house chief of staff, chief of staff mark meadows. so, jill, shouldn't the january 6 committee start inviting these members of congress to testify before the committee? and should they be subpoenaed if they don't voluntarily testified? >> i think that every american citizen who has any evidence should be subpoenaed, and i don't think that being a congressman or a senator allows you to evade that. i do have a slightly different reading of those text messages than many other commentators -- >> oh, yeah. >> i think that they were asking in that, we need ammo. we need fraud examples. they were asking for facts. they heard all of the accusations of fraud in the election, but they weren't seeing it. they saw 60 cases being lost in court. they were asking for actual facts. and i think that i'm confirmed in that by the fact that at the end they said, "this is a s show" and did not vote to overturn the will of the people because there was no evidence of any fraud. so i don't quite read it in the same way as everybody else. yes, in the beginning they were definitely for fighting for the president in any way possible. they even wanted sidney powell to be taken in consideration and used, and then east man, when the white house didn't involve sidney powell. so they were certainly willing to go along, but that's because they were being advised there was actually fraud. there was no fraud. they came to see there was no fraud. and they, both the two text people we're talking about now, senator lee and chip roy, did not vote to overturn the will of the people. so i read it differently. >> right. and you snow what, jill, now that you point that out, that was the impression i got as well. they were looking for fraud. they were asking, give us the evidence, and it never came. and that's when they were like, um, fix this. jill wine-banks, thank you as always for coming to "the sunday show." up next, transgender women of color are being murdered as republican governors and legislatures target the trans community as part of an overall effort to roll back lgbtq rights nationwide. we'll discuss next. please stay with us. >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. this dad and daughter were driving when they got a crack in their windshield. 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[♪♪] you can count on fast, if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. the harm is the traumatizing effect it will have on children and their families when they know that they've been receiving best practice medical care, and now all of a sudden they're scared because they don't know what's going to happen in the vacuum of that. >> alabama governor kay ivey signed into law a bill that makes it a felony for doctors to provide gender-affirming medical care for transgender youth and another that requires students to use the bathroom matching the sex on their birth certificate. ivey's action is part of a wave of legislation being adopted across the country in record numbers. these bills and the transphobic hate rhetoric attached to them have kobs eloquences. in just the past month, six trans women have been murdered around the country. tatyana, kenyana. ariana mitchell, and fern feather. joining me now is award-winning writer and activist raquel willis. raquel, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." >> of course, thank you for having me. >> overall your reaction to these efforts around the country to target the trans community and target specifically young people who are seeking gender-affirming care. >> well, it's very disheartening. i think of my own personal journey, the journey of folks that i know. it takes so much to be brave and share your truth. and to be young and be able to do that is something that we should be championing. we should be rallying behind these young trans and non-binary youth who are saying who they are in a world that continuously tells them they shouldn't exist. >> how do these laws put their lives at risk? >> well, we continue to see the stoking of rhetorical violence, right. we see politicians and other adults and their lives being emboldened to disregard and disrespect their truth. we know it can lead to an increase in risk of suicidality. we can see a heightened risk of depression. so we really don't want to see these unhealthy outcomes for young people. >> you know, i mentioned the trans women who have been murdered just in the past month alone. but this epidemic of trans women, particularly trans women of color, specifically black trans women has been happening for years now, and we're talking about it on this show. but why don't you think those murders have gotten the attention they deserve? >> yeah, well, we're facing a matrix of violence. so we know that this political violence is happening to restrict the rights of trans people and trans youth across the board. but that is completely connected as well to this physical violence and murder that is often happening to particularly black and brown trans women. again, we have to talk about white supremacy at every chance that we get. >> okay, do it. >> because black and brown trans people are so routinely erased from conversations around what it means to be marginalized within the society. we need to be talking about the difficulties in getting access to education, health care, employment, housing and so much more for black and brown trans people. >> what do you say to those young trans non-binary kids out there who might be living in one of these states that is targeting them? what do you say to them to help them keep their heads up and keep their hope? >> yeah, well, i just like people to know i grew up in augusta, georgia, in the early '90s and 2000s. i know what it feels like to be isolated. i want you to hold on and know there is a community out there for you. there are people fighting every day to keep you alive, and also just to fight for you to live the best life. you deserve a full, whole healthy life like anyone else. >> if you had a chance to talk to any of these legislators -- the only one who comes to mind, but she's not the only one, governor ivey of alabama. if she were here right now, what would you say to her? >> i would ask her what she's going through. i think when folks are coming at the trans community, it is often coming from a place of insecurity. maybe it's political insecurity and you want to use our community as fodder. we're not going to stand for that any longer. trans people have existed throughout time and we're not going anywhere. we're going to fight for our people. >> is the biden administration doing enough in fighting for the trans community, fighting for the lgbtq community in general, do you think? >> i think it's great that we have an administration now that positively and affirmly speaks to trans people and speaks to the trans experience. but none of our political leaders are doing enough for our community. we need our political leaders out there on the offense, not just in a defense mode. so they're waiting for these right-wing conservative folks to come at our community when they should have been already ensuring our protections across the board. >> one more question for you about florida and the "don't say gay" bill. why do you think governor desantis is so focused on the lgbtq community, so focused that he wants signed into law this "don't say gay" bill? >> they have seen success in trying to paint this idea that the lgbtq community is targeting young kids and they just don't understand there has always been a complexity of gender identity. we have to own that. we have to acknowledge is it it and can't run away from it. it is connected to the discussions around race and racism in the history of this country. we're never going to progress if we continue to sweep these issues under the rug and act as if they have never existed. so what i would say to governor desantis is, you got to hang it up, you know. you got to actually show up for communities on the margins and not use us as political fodder. >> right, because as the saying used to go back in the '90s here in new york, we're here, we're queer, get used to it. raquel willis, thank you so much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you. coming up, it's that time of the week again, and you're not going to want to miss it. comedian george hawn and the congresswoman maxine waters will be sounding off next. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. 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>> yes. >> are there any plans for him to come? >> i think he will. >> you think he will? >> i think he will. it's his decision, of course, and, and about the safety situation, it depends. i mean, but i think, i think he the leader of the united states, and that that's why he should come here to see. >> joining me now, actor george hahn and rock on tour, and congresswoman maxine waters of california. thank you both very much for coming to "the sunday show." congresswoman waters, i'm going to start with you since you are the only elected official who is on the screen right now. should president biden heed the request of president zelenskyy of ukraine and go to ukraine? >> well, let me just tell you that this president has been awfully responsible for making sure that we get weapons and equipment. and just recently i think another 800 billion in equipment going to ukraine, we're all working as hard as we possibly can. i believe with all of the intelligence that we have, if putin knew that biden was coming, he would try to have him killed. so we have to be very careful about that. we want our president to be safe as we do the work that we can do to help out in every way that we can with ukraine. >> so, if not president biden, which american official do you think should go to ukraine to see with their own eyes what's happening there? >> i do believe that elected officials should volunteer if they want to go and make that trip. but i don't think that we should absolutely try and assign or force any of the elected officials to go. but i think there are many of us who would perhaps volunteer to go, and those are the ones that should go. >> there are those of us who would volunteer to go. would you volunteer? are you volunteering? >> yes, absolutely i would go. >> all right, george. >> i'm stunned. >> since you are the voice of the people here, an unelected official, how important would it be to you to have the president to go to ukraine or congresswoman waters go to ukraine? >> i think congresswoman waters would be an incredible choice. you just sort of fall in love with her at "hello." that's number one. it's important to show our face, isn't it? it's important to show our face, and to put forth good diplomatic vibes. you know, i don't -- i'm not -- it's not my wheel house. >> right. >> but it's important for us to show our face and make a good presentation. >> foreign policy is not your wheel house. >> true story. >> commenting on domestic policy, however, is way in your wheel house. >> sure is. >> congresswoman waters, i don't know if you have seen george hahn and his instagram stories, but i'm going to play this one and his satirical response to the "don't say gay" bill in florida. >> we can't live any -- but you talk to the children, especially the teachers, talk to the children about sexuality and trans things because that's what the liberals and gays do. that's what they're trying to do, they're trying to groom young children in their ranks and get more gays. that's how you make gay. more shootings and guns in schools and more than child hunger and kids coming to school hungry and can't learn, the biggest threat to our children is the gays. and we can't let any gays get into our kids' heads because they're going to groom our children and make them gay. >> we left out the best part. and the best part is when george just looks dead-on at the camera because you have made a name for yourself by highlighting in that clip just the insanity of what's happening in our culture right now. why was it important for you to focus in on the down -- "don't say gay" bill and how ridiculous it is? >> speaking from my experience, jonathan, i think i remember as a young not ready to understand -- not ready to, like, i was raised in cleveland. it was a very conservative environment. i remember looking at another guy when i was maybe 5 or 6. i had those rumblings back then. and then lived in, you know, shame and fear for the next 18 years. it was so not okay to have that conversation. i remember very early being indoctrinated with gay jokes. i told them, you know. it's how you got through it and got along. so, is it important to maybe discuss issues of sexuality the way one talks about a mom and a dad? why not introduce -- who is going to talk to a kid about a classmate who has two dads or something? >> right. >> or two moms. >> i don't understand the problem. this is a roll backwards. it infuriates me. >> congresswoman waters, you've been in congress a very long time. you have seen these conversations go on for years. i would love to get your reaction, not only to george's satirical send up of the "don't say gay" bill, but the rights of the lgbt q. community. >> you know, what we're experiencing now with this anti-gay moves is beyond the pale. many of them have family members who are gay. many of them have family members who do not agree with them. and me think this gentleman does protest too much. so we just have to stand up as legislators. we have to resist it. we have to organize. we have to support, particularly our young people who are threatened oftentimes by them. i have been involved with support for the gay community, for the lgbtq community for years, and i continue to do it. when i first got started, it was young people being deserted by their families years ago. we've come a long way. we're not going to give up. we're not going to give in to this insanity. we're going to continue to fight, to stand up and to show the young people and the gay community that they are loved by so many of us, and we are going to do everything that we can to protect them and work with them. >> don't go anywhere, congresswoman maxine waters, george hahn, because when we come back, we have got to talk about alabama governor kay ivy's bonkers ad. my panel is back when we come back. we come back ♪simply irresistible♪ ♪ ♪ ♪simply irresistible♪ applebee's irresist-a-bowls are back. now starting at $8.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. you never know what opportunities now starting at $8.99. life will send your way. but if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or psoriatic arthritis, enbrel can help you say i'm in for what's next. ready to create a bigger world? 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(vo) with 5g ultra wideband in many more cities, you get up to 10 times the speed at no extra cost. verizon is going ultra, so your business can get more. my little family is me, aria, and jade. just the three of us girls. i never thought twice about feeding her kibble. but about two years ago, i realized she was overweight. she was always out of breath. that's when i decided to introduce the farmer's dog to her diet. it's just so fresh that she literally gets bubbles in her mouth. now she's a lot more active she's able to join us on our adventures. and we're all able to do things as a family. ♪♪ get started at longlivedogs.com my panel my panel is back w. congresswoman maxine waters and george hahn. i talked about the kiv bonkers ad. let's play the kiv bonkers ad. >> it's a perfect storm of problems for the democrats because it's a entirely democratic government which leads you to ask, how could you screw this up? >> with joe biden shipping illegal immigrant to the states, we're going to have to learn spanish. my message to biden, no way, jose. that's why i sent national guard troops to protect the southern border and that's why we banned sanctuary cities in alabama. the left can try to counsel me. i don't care. but here in alabama we're going to enforce the law. >> it's mother burnside from "auntie mame." i called it bonkers, it's just racist. >> let me say this, this is plain racist ignorance, in your face. so when you talk about responding, it's more like ignoring and keeping up the fight against racism and discrimination and making sure that we do everything that we can to get those who are elected out of office, elect progressive people. we don't have time to deal with that kind of stupidity and that kind of ignorance. so it is absolutely shameful that in this day and age, that we have people who think like that, who speak like that, and who have access to the resources to purchase the kind of ads to just literally spill that kind of mess across our screens. >> and george, she got elected, she's the governor of alabama. >> jonathan, we're seeing an appeal to the people who want to say the quiet part out loud. she effectively did a 30-second t.e.d. talk to tell everyone a racist without telling you're a racist. it wasn't even dog-whistle-y. going back a couple of presidents ago, there were still people who were furious that there was a not-white couple eating off the china in the white house and they're still furious about it. this gives them a permission slip to come out of the shadows. >> in the little bit of time we have left, i want to play for you, george, since you're the new yorker here at the table, what mayor adams had to say when i asked him whether the city was spiraling out of control. what do you say to new yorkers who feel like the city, even though it has a new mayor and a new mayor who has made public safety his number one priority, that the city is spiraling out of control? >> no, the city is far from that. i was in the city when it spiraled out of control, during the mid-'80s, early '90s. we were part of the real comeback when it dealt with crime in the city. that's not what we're facing at this time. again, i cannot point enough to the nypd is doing its job. >> george, is the city spiraling out of control? >> no. it's got problems, like any city, we have problems. there are big shootings in other cities. we just experienced one. but no, it's not spiraling out of control. >> congresswoman waters, i want to give you the last word here, but it's in reaction to something that -- another thing george hahn did, this was in reaction to the text messages that senator mike lee sent out that we just learned about on friday. watch this, this is element 4. >> please give me something to work with. i just need to know what i should be saying, please just tell me what i should be saying. [ crying ] scene. >> oh, my god. >> congresswoman waters, we have a minute left. your reaction to george but also to these text messages from like me and chip roy, pleading with the white house, do something. >> well, george just showed how ridiculous they can be. and, you know, in the kind of messages they're sending, we're dealing with crazy people, dealing with people who are out of control. we need to laugh sometimes. i'm laughing at him, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. thank you, george. >> thank you, congresswoman, you have made my easter weekend. >> this has been incredible. george hahn, congresswoman maxine waters, still laughing. >> day made. this is so good. >> george hahn, congresswoman maxine waters, still laughing in l.a., thank you both for coming to "the sunday show." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. as a business owner, your bottom line and every person... is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.™ thank you at home for watching "the sunday show." i'll be back next sunday at 10:00 a.m. eastern but stay tuned because my friend alex witt has the latest. >> hey, to you. follow the bouncing ball here, i think of you every easter sunday when the pope delivers his address from rome, given you and the way you love rome so much and your knowledge of it and all that kind of stuff. the fact that you're in the studio next to me right now is pretty cool. anyway, i think of you every sunday when the pope talks. i'm not sure i'll try to make a closer parallel. we'll just leave it at that. >> that's good company. >> very good. have a good one, happy easter. >> happy easter. a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone, to "alex witt reports." if you're celebrating easter, i hope you enjoy your day. we begin with the breaking news on this day, day 53 of the war in ukraine. a desperate turn of events in mariupol, russians claim only 400 ukrainian fighters remain in the beleaguered city. they're holed up inside a steel plant, refusing to surrender. >> if russians wouldn't like to have negotiations so we will fight 'til the end, absolutely. we will not surrender. we will not leave our country, our families