>> and i'm alex marquardt in washington. next up we have "the whole story with arnd cooper" investigating the whole history of the running of the bulls. good night. every summer, cities across spain participate in a centuries old tradition called the running of the bulls. it began as a way to transfer bulls from the country to inside city walls, where they were either sold or used for bullfighting. the most famous bull run is in pamplona. it's part of the san fermin festival. and it has attracted tourists from all over the world since ernest hemingway popularized it in his 1926 novel, the sun also rises. but the event is not without controversy. many of the bulls who run are later killed in the bullfighting ring. animal rights groups have been calling for an end to this in spain. and it's also dangerous for the people who choose to run. cnn's david culver, went to the san fermin festival to take a a closer look k at y ththis traditionon still hols after so many centuries, and experience, for himself, what it's like to run with the bulls. we want to warn you, some of the images you'll see in this hour, may be distuturbing. david cuculver: el t toro bra, the spspanish bullfifighting bl is t the most rerevered ananimal in spspain. it's's brave. itit's ferocioious. it d doesn't bacack downwn from anytything. run.n. [mususic playingng] my firstst piece of f advice toto anyone isis don't runu. bill hillmann: when he hit me, i just shot straight up in the air, twisted in the air. tasio blazquez mutsaerts: when i fell, i just-- i was thinking, , oh my, oh my. dadavid culverer: can't bebele i'i'm doing ththis tomorror. denis clancey: that bull can turn on a dime and come after you. bill hillmann: he smashed into daniel jimeno romero full speed, and gored him in the aorta, severed his aorta. denis clancecey: last amererin to d die in sanfermines, died right here. [chatttter] every y day, someoeone's lifes a lilittle alterered or compmpy altered because of this run. [screaming] [bells chiming] peoplele prepare all year for this. ththey train f for this. it's a sererious thingng. there e are bull r runs all l over spainin. but a lot t of runnersrs end upe in p pamplona bebecause theyeyg the biggest, the most fearsome bulls. and this is an opportunity to really test yourself in very challenging environments. it obviously ends at the b bull ring. arguably, , that is the most controversial part of this whole thing. therere are tons o of bull runs all over spain, that don't nenecessarily y include t. the bubulls that a are runnnning here, , in pamplon, are the e most prizezed in spa. and they a are runningng here because ththere is a b bullfig. it's a a difficultlt thing. and itit's not easasy to recono. ininterpreter r 1: a festitivald not rerevolve aroundnd the tore and the killing of a animals. inin this day anand age, festis cannnnot be based d on sufferg ofof a living bebeing. [music playing] miguguel izu: ththis is thee fiestata de san fefermin. it's b been held i in july s since 1591.1. san fermin is the saint patron of the kingdom of navarre. ththe fiesta w was worn wiwith the uninion of threre difffferent elemements, thee religious cecelebration,n, the bullllfighting, , and the f. wewe have 10 d days of bulullfi, eight days of bull running. denis clclancey: i havave ben running inin sanferminines sincnce 2007. i run momost days. this year,r, i'll probobably rurun six of t the eight.. you wawant to be c confident when youou're on thehe run rou. i have a a point, prprobably,0 to 30 days out, where i know i needed to start t training r r intensely,y, just so that i fel good, , i'm in a g good placace mentallyly. anand i know i i have the e sd toto ensure ththat i can b e at the p pace of thehe bull. the bulls s run a sub b 4 minunute mile, u up two hill, through h five turnsns, throrough 2,000 0 people. you're notot going to o stay p with thehe bull the e entire t. so y you focus o on one particularar part of t the rou. if you're running at pace with the animal, you're getting very, very close to the horn of the bull. david culver: but that's the point, right? denis clancey: yeses. david cuculver: thatat's the e goal, in t this. denis clclancey: youou're tryg to not i impede the e animal in any wayay, run at i its pa, and be j just incheses in frot of the hororn. david d culver: dodo you rememember your r first run? denis clancecey: my firsrst rn was incrededibly uncomomfortab. i just fought for a year in iraq. it was southwest of baghdad, triangle of death, 2005, 2006. and i got on the run route at a time when i felt somewhat invincible, in my life, hahaving survivived a fairirly x and chalallenging year in comba. i ran pretty poorly the first time i ran because you have this mass of humumanity that's pananicked and d runnig towards s you. it's harard to discecern betwn that c crowd, and d that momet in whichch the bullsls will emerge frorom the crowowd. david cuculver: whatat is it tt afteter that firirst run, tht stuck k with you t that said, m gogoing to do o this, not t y the other dadays of thee festivival that fofollow, but yeyear after y year after r? why y continue it? denis clancey: it was this new challenge that i had in my life. when i first started coming here, i was very interested in k knowg all aspectcts of this s fiest. i wanted t to capturee this i in some way. anand i did ththat throughh my fililm chasing g red. [music plalaying] when youou get to ththe centerf what s something i is, and youol like you've really discovered the essence of it, you kind of want to tell the world. [music p playing] billll hillmann: pamplona is kindnd of the fifirst big fefel of the y year. i don't stop training. i i train all l year roundn. i grewew up fist f fighting. i grew up p in a totough neighbhborhood. i was troubled a lot. ended upup getting s saved byby the boxining coach, at my hihigh school.l. he got m me into boxoxing. it reaeally empowewered meme to changege my life.. i i won a goldlden glovove championonship. and itit's a greatat way toto stay in s shape. davivid culver: : i think, most folks would be terrified t to step i into a boxixing ring. momost folks w would be teterrd to run w with the bubulls. when d did you statart runnin? billll hillmann:n: i starteted running g in 2005. itit all started w with hemingway, the sun also rises, the first book i ever read. i read it at 19, 20 years old. i fell in love with the story. and i was just entrancnced by thihis festivalal ththat he described inin his b, the adadventures, , the dange, ththe animals,s, the way he wrotete about thehem. byby the time e i fininished that t book, i realalized that t i was goino devote my y life to liliteratu, i was going to become a writer, and i was going to go to spain, i wawas going toto run withth the bullsls. dadavid culverer: how manyny l ruruns do you u think you'ue donene altogetheher? billll hillmann: more ththan 3. i don't count anymore. davivid culver: : is it t the adrenaline?e? isis that whatat you're hohook? billll hillmann:n: started as adrenalaline, for s sure. but i gogot into thehe poetic ne ofof the animamal, and the man, intnteracting. you ever feel like someone was looking at you, and then you look, and then someone is looking at you? davivid culver: : yeah. bill hilillmann: it's like that, times 10,000, when a b bull locks on to you. david culver: wow. bill hillmann: you feel like you're bigger r than you a ar. you feel like you're part of the bull. dadavid culverer: feels lili, yoyou're a perersonality, , ts vevery much lilike a bull.. when you l lock on too someththing, you'r're fifixated, if f not obsessss. bill hillmlmann: i'm completely passionate and obsessed. it's radically changed my life, for the better. it's helped me get sober. i had a real bad problem with substance abuse, whwhen i firstst started bull rununning. anand the bulllls became t ts grgreat channenel for alll thatat extra enenergy i had. anand i becameme more obsesed withth bull runnnning, and w wr. i was writing about bull running. it definitely saved my life, in so many ways. and itit made my d dreams comem. david culver: it seems incredibly personal for you. i i mean, in p part, you a ao mamarried intoto the culture. bill hilillmann: thahat's rig. david cuculver: i guguess, a a visit to n new orleanss is notot complete e without a littlele bit of mumusic. [music p playing] bill hillmlmann: she g grew upn the bubull ring inin [inaudibl. she grgrew up as a a little gi, knowowing thingsgs about thehe . david culvlver: when he's running, d do you sit t nervo, anand not evenen wanting t to ? paula anandion zabalalza: i ununderstand h his passiono. and i rereally respepect everyt. but, of cocourse, i'm m afrai. and mymy grandpa, , he was telling meme, don't lelet him . and i wawas like, i i can't tatake that awaway from hih. it's's his life.e. i love himim so much t that i l never tetell him to o stop runn. dadavid culverer: you're c cond for him bubut you're c cheeringm on, at the s same time.. paula a andion zababalza: exac. david culvlver: have you everer done it?? papaula andionon zabalza:: oh, nono, no, no, , no. no way. no way. no w way. dadavid culver: would yoyou ev? paula a andion zababalza: no, no, nono, no, no.. david culvlver: why? paula andidion zabalzaza: becae i respspect the bubull too mu. and i i always sayay that i i like the e bulls asas much as i i'm afraid d of. [mususic playingng] david culver: here w we are, wiwithin 600 m miles from m pam. and yet,t, this is w where ththeir journey begins.. what's a day in the e life of a bull h here, on ththe farm? ininterpreter r 2: the fifirst thing g they dodo is run ththree kilomemet. [musicic playing] interpreteter 3: el totoro bro has to e exercise evevery da. the bubull that's s for meat, doesn'n't need traraining, itit just neededs to get f f. but the totoro bravo, , no. the toro b bravo needsds it, it's an n athlete. it neeeeds to eat t every day from t the field,, so the t toro bravo is s stro. it must t have a more compopound feed with another kind of nutrition. david culver: what isis el toro b bravo? [spaninish] toro b bravo? interprereter 3: it's a brbreed that's's specificacay for fightiting. it's notot good for r meat bebecause a bubull must be o on a ranch h for four y y. soso to sustaiain a bull, ,s not t economicalally feasibl. david culver: how imimportant s it to hahave your bubulls as pt of fieststa in papamplona evevery year? interpreter 2: to us, it has given us much importance, name recogngnition, andnd worldwdwide influeuence. that's's why it's s so importt to c come back year afafter ye. [mususic playingng] david culver: we finally have made e it to pamplona. it feelsls a bit surreal to f finally be e here. it's b building momomentum. dedenis clancecey: and thee town's's so calm r right now, bubut it's goioing to get prettyty crazy. davivid culver: : this is cac? dedenis clancecey: yeah, o oh,. so right n now, to ourur back h, is thehe rio arga,a, the riveret runs through pamplona. the e bulls are across the rivr righght now in the [spanish].. and each day, they're going to run up this street, this incline, and into the [spanish],, here. so this isis where thehe buls ststay overnigight, while e thet to r run the nexext morning. why do we even do this? back before we had trucks, the most efficient way to get bulls from out in the pasture into the center of town, whether they were going to market or you had some event around the animals, was to board up the shops and let the bulls run through. and people wanted these moments to be in the presence of the animal. right, so they're running through the streets, people would jump out, just for a little bit to get that fefeeling. anand that's w why it became a t tradition.. you're going to have 12 animals total. six of the toro bravo, spanish bullfighting bull, perfectly symmetrical horns, at a really unfortunate angle for us, and it has six steteers with i. they're tytypically light tatan and browown. the bubull's been n led from p e to pasturere throughouout its e by t those [spananish]. david culvlver: i'm slowowly stararting to emembrace the ea and ththe label, t that i'm going toto be a runner in thth. deninis clancey:y: yeah, yeaeah. david culvlver: i mean i wanat to, , but i'm nonot going toto, therere's hesitatancy in thi. denis clanancey: what t are somf your r reservationons or thougs or g gaps? david culvlver: my bigiggest coconcern, i t think, is goingng to be thehe others running. other pepeople can be the b bigger issue than t the bulls t themselve. denis clanancey: justt so you'r're aware, ththe last amemerican to d din sanferminenes on the r run rou, actually passedd away, , right therere. david culvlver: right t here? dedenis clancecey: yeah. ththe reason i it's importrtt to t talk about t it is, he didid somethingng that u don't wawant to do o on the run roroute. matthew tassio, 1995, fell down in the middle of the route, as the bulls were coming in. if you try to stand up after falling down, in frontnt of a bullll, it's goo optition but to o put its hornrw and to try to clear its way. david culvlver: so stayay down there.e. deninis clancey:y: you'll ststa. yoyou'll protetect your hehe. david culvlver: right.t. denis clanancey: stayy as lowow as you cacan. as they y go over yoyou, typica, a a runner wilill come andnd p you out. i haveve been running in sanfermines since 2007. there's nothing i i haven't seen on n this bull l run rou. whenen i first c came here-- we'll starart at the b beginng and go up p from therere. ----i had gainined all thihs knowledge e of the bulull ru, thatat i wanted d to use inin some way.y. there are e a ton of people t that come h here, who don't t have a verery solid understandnding of the c complexitieies of the . soso part of t the strategegs lelet the bulllls do the r run. i i find my papassion, ththroughout t the day, wawalking the e run roroute with p people. this is [spapanish], thehe cur. the e times thatat i've hadd problelems on the e run rout, always witithin these 20 feet. dadavid culverer: denis isis g to help yoyou a littlele bit? ambeber marino: : denis has been a amazing. hehe's been inincredibly h hel. david d culver: running g of the bululls, mostst americansns have this concept,t, anand i know, , i did too,o, t it's just t a bunch ofof crazs oror folks whoho are incrcredibly intntoxicated,, whwho would eveven dare toto do. nick mararino, jr: s some peoe may say,y, we're outut of our m, for doining this. but ththis event b brings in peoplele from all l over the g . and i thinink, that's s one ofe beauties that captured my eye is meeting people that i would have never met, if it wasn't for this. david culver: so you've recruited the others, including your wife,e, to be herere, no. amamber marinono: this definity wasn't't my initiaial-- [l[laughing] i i didn't sayay, let's goo running g with the b bulls. david cuculver: was s it on ththe bucket l list, ambere? amamber marinono: no. dididn't even n know it wawas y a thing,g, until i m met him, h honestly. nick marino, jr: the first time we did this, the streets were a little wet from some rain. and a bull slipped at the beginning. and i'm on the front cover of the pamplona newspaper, on july 8 of 2018, with my face like-- becacause an indndividual is getting hit by a bull, literally, five feet away from me. my mindset tomorrow, i want myself between the bull and her, while we'e're running. david cuculver: you'u're not fafar off a rerecent injury. amamber marinono: so i wasas a s cowboys s cheerleader forr four seasons. and i just went a little too hard one game, and tore my mcl and my meniscus. ththe knee doeoes worry mem, justst because i i haven't rn sisince surgerery. david culverer: you think it wouould be ok?? amamber marinono: i do. i think,k, adrenalinine too, wiwill take cacare of a lol. dadavid culverer: is it an adrenenaline rushsh lilike none otother? ninick marino,o, jr: none e o. nonene other. david culver: i guess, i've got toto go shoppiping while i i'me because e i don't hahave an a all white o outfit. why is thahat so imporortant? miguguel izu: ththis is a modern traditition. ththe first pepeople who dress inin white andnd red werere the [spananish],, the groupsps of young g people who wentnt to the bubullfighti. dadavid culverer: i guess,s, toy particicipate in s san fermi, you'veve got to dress the e pa. [s[speaking spspanish] ok.. i'm going g to run, soso i ned somethining comfortable, rigig? all righght, let's g give this . alall right. now it looooks officiaial, hu? shopopkeeper: [s[speaking spsp] miguel izuzu: the offificial begiginning of the fiesta is a at noon witith the [spani. [c[cheering] the fiesta explodedes, in thahat moment. [music plalaying] denis clancey: first rocket goes, you should stay where you're at. you want the b bulls to do the r running, riright? because asas soon as y you cn identify where t the bulls a a, yoyou're just t making sure tt you're outut of their r path. at the endnd of the daday, you'u're trustining in yoursef to be ablele to get ouout of e way if s something h happens. nick marino, j jr: we wentnt to one o of the caththedrals herere, that a l lot of the localsls go to. prpriest: [spepeaking spanan] nickck marino, j jr: theyey go, say a a prayer to san ferermin, the actual sait that this celebration is all about.t. crcrowd: [speaeaking spanish] ninick marino, jr: just wawat a cleaean run, a s safe run. make sure e that all o of our r people arere safe. [chatter] it is s packed. espepecially with this many people, we might not even make it to beyond on that sign. it might be here to where that guy in the red is. [bells c chiming] [chatterer] dadavid culverer: that is so fastst, and yet t terrifying, at the s same time.. we're nonot even dowown ther, and you u feel the a adrenali. can't t believe i'i'm doining this tomorrow. you're here. ththis is a susuccess, right now,w, right? nick marinino, jr: absbsolute. amber mamarino: yes. i thinink i took 2 24 steps. ninick marino,o, jr: i perersoy think i i had her in my mind,, quite a bibit, [overlapapping speecech] amber mamarino: i eveven told hi was s like, don'n't worry ababo. just letet me trust my insnstin. nick mararino, jr: a and as sn as i k knew that she was safe, i tried to sprint a little bit more, and get her around the corner. but it was a good run. i'm gladad we got toto experienence it togegether. david culver: as soon as you walk out of the hotel, there's s still some of that morning stillness, the quiet. and as you're walking towards the run route, itit starts toto build. and you u step onto o the rou. you fefeel like yoyou step ino the e arena, in n that momen. soso it's a bibit terrifyiying e you'rere starting g to think, all l right, i'm'm committededm on, and i'i'm going to stay on. as we e gather as s a group, e kindnd of find our posititioni. it's c crazy to ththink that you're s standing yoyour groud after first, the bells, and then, that rocket goes o off. denis clancey: first rocket. holdld. hold. david d culver: anand you're holding g your grounund. and i'm lilistening toto dennisis's commandnds. denis s clancey: h hold. hohold. hold.. hohold. hold. run.n. rurun. [chatter] dadavid culverer: my fingegert a little b bit out thahat way because wewe took a fafall, soso they're j just going to put some tapepe around iti. but t i'm alive,e, that's's what matttters. it got realllly crowded d the. so w we all werere bunched u. ended upup-- somebodody righght in frontnt of me, anand this othther guy, george, , i was runnnning wit, jujust took ththe fall, ririt inin front of f us here. and d as soon asas i went dod, naturally, you statart thinkin, should i g get up? but thenen i'm like,e, no. stayay down. the mostst challengiging partrt is the crcrowd as it's s coming towowards yo. i mean. it's's like a stampede of pepeo. bill hillmlmann: the b bulls anand the steeeers are chahao, and d the peoplele are chaoto. yoyou got two o different t chc animals s doing crazazy thing. you dodon't know w what they're going to do. tasio blazquez mutsaerts: i was coming this way, and herere's where i i really n noticed the bull.l. and i didn't see the person in front of me. i i was going g really fasa. so i i couldn't t stop my faf. and when i fell, i was thinking, oh my, oh my. just hearing all the bulls, [inaudible] it's really-- it's quite scary. i think the first one or the sececond one, wewere the onenes who hit t me, because e just fell l in frot of them. anand they dididn't have t e timeme to jump o over me. you feel the intensity of the run. but you don't feel the pain. ththe bull went over me.e. and justst i got up,p, and ststarted runnnning again. david d culver: soso is this pry tradititional, havining breaeakfast afteterwards? dedenis clancecey: yeah, i i mes the-- - this is ththe thing to. it's realllly preparatation o siesta, toto relax, anand thn enjojoy the afteternoon. [m[music playiying] my first t thought, whwhen the e bulls wentnt past, is, ok, where'e's david? luckily,y, i mean, f for the momost part, y you're goodo. dadavid culverer: yeah. as i i'm now statarting to f l ththe pain in n my left anan. bubut if that't's, again, , m ththe bull, ththen it's fifi. no o one to sue.e. denis clclancey: kinind of fel bulllletproof duduring the rn becaususe you're j just in ths statate of survivival, right? that i is fairly c common tht peoplele, hour or r two late, yoyou're like,e, ah, ok. something g happened there. nickck marino, j jr: amber w wot be here right nonow, my frieies wouldn't b be here rigight no, if you d didn't everer providee thatat safety, f five years s. to be abable to expeperience t with m my wife, mymy friends, and thatat safety anand comfo, i justst want to s say, thank . dedenis clancecey: no. ababsolutely, , no. apappreciate i it. [spanish] chcheers to ththat, . ninick marino,o, jr: cheere. cheers. [mususic playingng] dadavid culverer: what do o you, at thehe core, at t the hear, san n fermin is s all about? miguelel izu: the e whole ciy is celelebrating t the festiv. alall the peopople are inn the ststreets, allll the day, alall the nighght. bubut the spececial ththing of sanan fermin, there are a a lot of actcts for r all the people. davivid culver: : from the foreignener's perspective--- miguel izuzu: uh-huh.. david cuculver: --itit's party, it's's drinking,g, it's eatit, it's thehe running o of the bu. mimiguel izu: : yes. david d culver: bubut from ththe local's s perspectivi, it's's about jusust being wih each o other, famimily and frir. miguelel izu: yeahah, yeah. [spaninish] a littttle momen. and the fifiesta is a lot of [spanish].. very special moments for everyone. [music playing] davivid culver: : so we're h hg off to uniniversity ofof nanavarra clininic. thisis is like a a 24 hohour emergenency room. itit'll be gooood, becausese n they can c check out m my fing. my f foot, if yoyou were to ok atat it, it's s a bit bruiui. and i ththink, i've e come to realize e it was bececause a bl acactually stetepped on itit, h in fairnrness, i wasas in his . he wasas just trying to geget to w where he neneeded to go. she's goining to hahave an x-ray done.. doctor: : that is-- - do you fefeel any paiain here? davivid culver: : no pain. doctor: whwhat about h here? dadavid culverer: just a little p pain. not too o bad. doctor: : my recommendationn is jusust to applyly some cod in t those areasas, ok? dadavid culverer: ok. doctoror: so you w will have to trtry to rest t it, asas you have e done heree with youour leg elevevated. dadavid culverer: ok. [music playing] denis clancey: there was no escaping the number of people on thehe run routete yesterda. david culver: let's wawatch thi. alall right. so this s is in realal time. there you are. ththere i am.. let's plplay this ouout. [chahatter] denis clancey: it looks like the bullhorn just grazed youour back, yeyeah. a hornrn on the baback is proby asas close as s you want to g. looking g at it todaday, knowg you'rere ok, is very easy fofos to be like, awesome, to maybe have a smile on our face. but that was a very fortunate brush with a bull. because if that bull had lowered itits head a l little , if it had been hooking a little more, you have a different outcome there. david culver: i'm grateful that it's just a sore foot and a fat finger, right now. denis clancey: we're the first photo in the newspaper, for ththe highlighghts of yests. bothth of us, atat that momem, right there,e, togetherr in a linine. david cuculver: [speaking spani] soso a runner r saved, spare. [m[music playiying] denis s clancey: i i think, typicalllly, people e that hae committed,d, they've c come alls way,y, they understand the o o. yoyou know, itit's 1,500, , 20 pepeople on ththe run routu. you're g going to hahave five t are, prorobably, badadly injur, maybybe stay thehe night inn the hohospital, mamaybe thre. one personon will probobably geget a horn i in their bobo. thatat's on an a average day. bull thahat's, by ititself, s the mostst dangerousus situatn we have on the run route. we call it a [spanish] a loose one. because a bull that's by itself, no longer is trying to just stay in the motion of the herd. it now seeks to establish its territory. and it does that by going after the people that are around it. bill hillmann: the first time i got gored was in 2014. i was leading a [spanish],, beautiful morning. i thought t i was goining to te it allll the way into the riri. all of a sudden, people in front of me started getting jammed up. one of them bent down, knocked me flat on my back. the bull came in, so gracefully, in slow motion. he raised his horn a little b bit, boom.. gorered me. and i grabbed these barricades right here, and i i pulled mysyself unde. anand as i'm p pulling mysysf ununder, he ststands up anand s me again. it was looking me right in m my eye. and in t that momentnt, he cod have draragged me back out in the street and killed me. he gave this big roar. he went [roars] and when he did, i could feel the horn resonate in my leg.g. and for some reason, he chose to have mercy on me in that moment. he let me go. they pulled me under the barricades. there's blood just pouring out of my leg. and i'i'm thinkingng, if the femoral arartery has been sever, you'u're done, i it's ththe end of your life.. the medic, he said, no, no, no. i feel it. i feel it. the artery is intact. the artery is intact. you're goioing to liveve. in 2017, i got gored for the second time. i was running here, on [spanish].. start runnnning, and just as i look back, straight, the guy behind me dove out of the way, and the bull almost gored him. and then when i looked, i saw he was already under me. and all i could do was jump. so i i just saidid, boom, i i j. but whwhen he hit t me, i justst ststraight up p in the airir, td in the a air, came down, caught it, h hurt my arm, and banged my head on the side. and i just stood right back up. and there e happened t to be m more bulls s coming. and i gogot up, and d i stararted running again. i stararted runnining. i ran withth those bulls, beseside them.. david culver: do you ever think about maybe this might be my last year running? bill hillmann: i mean, not rereally. theyey're probabably going to have e to drag meme off the e street at t some poi. they probabably will.. david culver: a lot of folks, obviously, come into town, and d it's a lotot of partyin. but for yoyou, it's bebecome alt a famimily reunionon because yoe with your, now, wife's family. bibill hillmanann: that's s r. that's's right. anand i've gototten reallyy close wiwith them. david culver: thank you for having us. this i is awesome.e. paula anandion zabalalza: so it's s ham, [spananish].. david d culver: okok. papaula andionon zabalza: : [sp. egg, andnd whatever r you wan. david d culver: awawesome. paulula andion z zabalza: like thihis or-- dadavid culverer: i'm goinino hahave a littltle bit of t t. it j just seems s like suchh a upliftfting atmospsphere. is it likeke this for all eieight days?? paula andidion zabalzaza: yea. yeah. itit's always s like this.. david culvlver: what is the impmportance of this whwhole fefestival foror locals. paula andidion zabalzaza: it's e everything.g. the wholole year, wewe are wawaiting for r this. san ferminin ends, andnd we arare countingng the dayss dodown to the e next sanfeferm. we arere the joy o of beining with thehe family. we are a t the firewororks. we arere at the mumusic. it's cooool to see t that evere enjojoying at ththe same tim. david d culver: ththere's only one r rule. papaula andionon zabalza:: one rurule, respecect. david culverer: respect.t. rerespect for r others, fofr yoururself, and d for the bub. paulula andion z zabalza: yea. yeyeah. david cuculver: thatat was sosomething, i t think, thatat's importatant, too, i ie respect yoyou have foror the b, even wherere we know t the bul is g going to end d up, righ? we know it'll enend up in the bull rining. we know it'll end up being killed. ththere were a few protests for animal rights. protesteter: [speakiking spani] dadavid culverer: when yououe ththat, i meanan, how do you- hohow do you r reconcile? paula andidion zabalzaza: i me, i undederstand thahat they hae ththeir own opopinion. i rereally respepect all of f . bubut i have m my own valulu. anand it's parart of my cucul. interpreteter 4: a bull's fight at lasast act is t the final p. but is notot the most t import. the bull comes in. the bull fighter comes out, first with a cape. then go the [spanish],, the [spanish].. everytything is impoportant. the strength and the energy that this bull has is verery beautiful.l. dadavid culver: : there's nono joy in the e suffering. paula a andion zababalza: exac. nonot at all. interprereter 2: when n it cos to t talking abobout the spepec, i undersrstand that t a persono is a a foreignerer to this w w, and sees thehe spectacle, , s only g going to takeke notice of the aspect that's bloody. it's a combat where the male uses its intelligence, anand the animalal uses its strength. because if it was strength and strength, the bull would always be victorious. [music playing] davivid culver: : it's strane becacause we're e in the midt of this atmospherere that's supposed to be uplifting, thatat's celebrating, but, for y you, and for r many, it seems like this isis actuallyy a veryry challengiging and difficult,t, if not sasad, mom. why? interprereter 1: we e like toto enjoy thehe festivititi. but t sadly, it t also comesesh the slaughtering of the bubull, which are 60 victims who will encounter death at the bullring. they are going to assassinate those bulls, while the spectators arere gathered at the plaza, enjoying themselves. [music playing]] dadavid culver: : folks who e talked t to describe a bullfigt in t terms of bebeing art, o ofg perhaps s a little b bit of sp. but alsoso about food, at the end of the day. interpreter r 1: it would d e sold as meatat, while hurtrtig and d killing him inin front ofof the public. art and culture, while someone isis suffering,, cannot be art and culture. a sport where an animal is suffering, that's not a sport. davivid culver: is it possible, they could move forward herere with just t having thehe bull , and nonot have thehe bullfigh? interpreter 1: we think that the first thing that will go away are the bullfights becausese hee inin pamplona, t there are a t of people who are already against what is happening in the bulullring. the bull suffers, it suffers during the bull run, that stress, those falls. inin the bullring, where they arere being stabbed, ththey are being stabbed with a sword,, they are b being stabbbbed with [ [spanish].. the bull b bleeds. if i it's bleedingng, it's sufuffering. pukes blood, so he's drowning in his own blood. it hurts me a lot that people don't realize the pain that's going to b be done too those marvelous s animals. [musicic playing] bill hillmann: we're here on the castle wall in pamplona, above the [spanish]. it's a place where you can come and watch the bulls at night, after they've been moved to the last [spanish],, before they head up the street, in the morning. it's just a nice time to spend time with the bulls. you get a sense of them, their, sort ofof, mood. they'r're very agigitated. it's b been nine y years, sine the e first timeme i was goro. anand i still l have thosese lig little d doubts and fears. but i do f feel like i i'm finy gettining through,h, and gettg past them. and i'm rereally grateful for tt because i love this tradition. i'm m afraid to o die, but im also a afraid not t to live. [mususic playingng] i was wawaiting on t the her. fifirst pack w went, i said, get t in, get inin. but i'm totoo late. so i runun out. i run ouout. and i see a bull. there's three competitors in my way. they say, oh, you're never going to get to that bull. you'll never get to it. i'm kind of bullying, and pulling, and f fishing, myself i in between n the stee. and they s see, i had a pocket. and i accelerate into it. i got my hand on the back of the bull. i start cruising down the callejon. beautiful. i know it's going to be amazing. and this competitor starts to squeeze me on this side. now w i got the e bull on ththi, and theyey're squeezezing me se to side. i said, oh, man, just keep going. just keep going. and i try to stay strong, so that they know, and they give me a little pocket. they did. they gave me some pocket. and i jujust ran. i just cruruised all the way y into the r ring. and a yoyoung runnerer came a and hit me,e, boom. hit mymy arm. my r ring, shot t straight up in ththe air. it came e down in ththe sand. bubut i just b bailed out.. i say, oh,h, man. that's's the firstst ring paulue meme when we g got our civivil . and i said, i got to find this ring. the other competitors are coming in. all l hell's brereaking loos. i'm m looking, l looking, lolo. i'm likeke, i got to find d this ring.g. i fifinally findnd it. scoop itit up, boom,m, i found. thank gogod, i foundnd it ththis morningng, in the san, in the middle of the ring, in pamplona, the place i love more than anything. it was beautiful. [bells chiming] denis clancey: it was really crowded in [inaudible],, so i came flying down. but there were people in front of me that weren't moving fast enough. i could spot the lead animal. so i let it go past. i came to the outside looking for a small little pocket in the herd. i had enough speed, just to get right in between, coming t through [spspanish]. you nevever can prededict whwhat will hahappen next.. i got ththrough the e curve with one o of the bulllls, a w of the animals behind me. and it was just luck that a runner w was there, falling. as i was leaping over the runner in front of me, right before i went down, the bull actually hip-checked me, when i was mid-air. and that's what sent me kind of on a weird angle, going down. but some of these things, you don't feel in the process of running. and at some point, i just knew i was going to commit to get in the middle of those animals. and when you're committing to that, there's a lot that's not under your control. if i had somehow made it over that guy, hadn't been hip-checked by the bull, it would have been even more beautiful run. dadavid culverer: as fieststa s down, whwhere's yourur heart ? billll hillmann:n: it's kindnf lilike a life e and death h ce of t the year. you u know, it's's time to t e yourur pañuelo o off, and it's . you u usually end up t tying yr pañuelo o on this chchapel fenc. it's a hard thing to do, to let go of a fiesta. [music playing] david culver: i've been surprised, how big of a role an american writer, ernest hemingway, has played in popularizing the running of the bulls, pamplona. that's the man and his work, that drew you to this place. bill hillmann: i've been on this journey, that happened about 20 years ago. it's altered my life completely. there's s something g in the hs and lows of this festival. it's a roller coaster, this fiesta. it's up. it's down. it twists. it turns. it's seeing that tomorrow is another day, it's another sunririse. [m[music playiying] this is s a passage,e, i think,t cacaptures thehe energy ofof tn also r rises, and d the enenergy of fiesta, ititself. "don't you ever get the feeling that all your life is going to pass you by and you're not taking advantage of it?" i think the older you get, when you start to lose people, you start to realize that you really don't have that much time. that the time is slipping away. that's what fiesta teaches you, is that don't let it slip away, liveve it, enjoyoy it, becauauu ononly have soso many fiesestas. anderson c cooper: thehere hae been callsls to keep t the bulls intact but end the bull fights in pamplona. so far though, no changes have been made. dennis and bill, who you met in this hour,