sandbags, school closures and a race to get out of its way. hurricane idalia proms millions to prepare for a life-the threatening storm surge that's hours from the florida coast. plus, doing his job or aiding and abetting a scheme. mark meadows spends three hours on stand trying to show his actions were just normal chief of staff things and not part of a conspiracy to subvert the 2020 election. and a campaign claush over foreign policy turns ugly. vivek ramaswamy calls nikki haley a liar. some see it as a dog whistle. i'm dana bash. let's go behind the headlines and "inside politics." up first, florida eyes a monster. a major hurricane is swirling off the shoreses. forecasters warn that hurricane idalia could be a once in a lifetime storm that will gain strength as it barrels towards the panhandle. already officials have ordered evacuates across much of the gulf coast. they told residents to expect widespread power outages for days and they warn storm surges as tall as two cars stacked on top of one another. that poses a life or death risk to anyone who stays behind. let's get straight to meteorologist derek van dam who is in clearwater, florida. what are you seeing? >> reporter: it's the calm before the storm. listen, what we have behind us is a record warm ocean. that is not what we want to see this time of year with a strengthening storm. it's going to feed off that warm water. that means we are expecting a strengthening hurricane idalia upon arrival. wednesday morning, that's what we're eyeing for. 85 mile per hour winds, that's still a category 1, but we are forecasting a category 3, teetering on a category 4. when you talk about the potential destruction that a storm of that magnitude can bring. it is over the open waters of the gulf of mexico and is pushing up the storm surge as we speak. there's the latest information from the the national hurricane center. 125 miles per hour, that's just a tick short of category 4 status. you can see how it exits florida and enters into southern georgia and the carolinas. you need to be watching the storm closely as well. wonderful resources here at cnn. we have the ability to show you from the air why this coastline is so susceptible. you can see the approach of some of the first rain bands here into the greater clearwater area in the next hour or so but these numbers have been updated from the national hurricane center in terms of potential storm surge. this is above normally dry ground. as we zoom into the big bend of florida, this area has the potential to see up to 15 feet of storm surge. we have all seen this story play out before. we are remiended of what happend roughly a year ago in forte myes there. you can see why, it's so shallow in this part of the world. the intercoastal standing 5 to 10 feet above sea level. so if you're talking 12 feet of inundation, the potential of the water up and over these areas is certainly a possibility. where we're located and also into tampa bay, 4 to 7 feet. that will still cause problems across the immediate coastline. >> derek, we will be talking very frequently as this storm gets even closer. thank you for putting that in perspective. already in florida, a frenzy to fuel up and get out of the harm's way. the warnings are coming from officials and newspapers across the state. game time and no screwing around. those are the headlines from newspapers there. last hour, the governor said power outages could plague the state for datys. >> when you look at where the storm is going to hit, there's a lot of heavily wooded areas. you'll see a lot of trees knocked down. you'll see power lines knocked down. it's going to require a concerted effort. >> sarasider in is covering it for us. really blunt warnings coming from officials up and down the coast there. >> yeah, they have said it over and over. we have spoken to the mayor of clearwater, the sheriff of st. petersburg, we have talked to the head of the faa, all of them speaking with one voice. if you are in a mandatory evacuation area, get out now. safe your life, worry about your stuff later. it looks like nothing is happening. there's more wind that we have noticed come upon us from the seaside, but this is going to change. and when it changes, if you are not already out of harm's way, you may not be able to get out of harm's way. especially because, yes, this is going to be a strong wind event, but as you just heard derek say, this is really about the storm surge. that's where the dangero to lif is. that's where the danger for structures are. when that surge happens, it's not as if it's a slow trickle. it's a rush and it's coming at you fast and furious. it's just not something that you want to mess around with. we heard from governor desantis. he added 49 counties that are all under an emergency order at this point in time. and he did mention something that is particularly interesting and particularly something to pay attention to. he says you have to go back to the 1880s or the 1800s since the area that's going to be hit here has seen a hurricane on a path like this one at this strength. we are expecting it to be by the time it hits landfall a category 3. that's packing a whole lot of winds, but mostly it's bringing up the water. i want to remind you something because of the day that it is. it's 29 august 29th. in 2005, it's sered into a lot of our memories because that's when hurricane katrina made landfall. thats was a category 3 storm. what was that about? it was about the water. that's what was so deadly. that was the problem. and everyone needs to be aware of that if they are in a mandatory evacuation zone. >> such an important point. i was actually thinking about that this morning as i look ed t the calendar. a memory sered into all our minds. thank you so much. if you see something change there, let us know. i want to show our viewers some live pictures of key west. you can see winds are already whipping around as idalia l lumbers towards the coast there. and in cuba, already it's getting a brutal glimpse into what florida might see in mere hours. people are wading through knee-high water as evacuation buss idling in storm summer. you see the photo there is and that video. i want to go to cuba. that's where patrick otman is. what are you seeing? >> reporter: the skies are finally clearing here and the long process of assessing damage is just beginning. of course, when idalia skirted western cuba, it came as a weaker storm than floridians will face. it was a tropical storm and then turned to a category 1 hurricane early this morning. and while it would seem like cuba missed the bufl, the images of people walking through flooded streets, some of the rain that we felt all throughout the morning was just lashing people who were trying to go to work. we didn't expect it to be quite this bad. we had hours where the rain pounded us. and we saw how quickly the streets can flood, how the wind can just pick up out of nowhere. it knocked over some of our camera equipment out of the blue this morning. so the situation can change very quickly. cuba got a much weaker storm than what floridians are going to face, because as aye dal yan trya travels towards florida, is going through warmer waters and that's the fuel for had hurricanes. so floridians will face a much stronger storm than we faced here in cuba. >> thank you so much for that. appreciate it. the storm is spelling travel mayhem. it is up with of the busiest weekends coming up of the entire year. it's labor day weekend. let's talk about that with our own pete muntean. so pete, for those planning on traveling this week or looking ahead to this weekend, what should they know? >> if you have a trip to disney world or tampa, you are no doubt glued to the airline app to see what the latest is about how this storm could impact things. it could have a nationwide impact. we're hearing from southwest airlines, which is especially well leveraged out of tampa. it could be disproportionately impact ed by this storm. the tampa airport closed at 12:01 a.m. today, a preemptive strike really because they are mostly concerned about the storm surge, the airport is right on the bay. and they are also concerned about projectiles, the infrastructure, trying to move airplanes out of the way. it's causing a trickle-down effect. these are the latest numbers. about 491 cancellations. that's the latest. we're checking it now. 1,083 delays nationwide. the numbers are going up by the moment. the faa is monitoring this from its data center. it says it has had a teleconference earlier today. there's another one being planned for later on today. there's big concern here that the storm is going for some major hubs. we're only hours away from that. what's interesting is that older international airport will remain open. thankfully right now, at least the airport is saying that it's inland and won't be too impacted. but we're seeing airlines already try to make it easier for passengers to change plans. so many people anticipated to travel for this long labor day weekend. we know behaviors have changed. a lot of people really start traveling on thursday just because of the fact that they can work from home. so this could have a really big impact hoar. >> thank you so much for that reporting. and ahead, we'll get more on where this hurricane is headed and when it's expected to make landfall. and also fascinating new testimony from former trump chief mark meadows. we'll dig in on that, next. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by y switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. save $70700 dollars. pick up dad from airport? 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call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. now to fulton county, georgia, and what meamark med ds a judge and jury will believe. it is still up in the air at this point whether meadows will get his wish to move his case to federal court, but we learned a the lot monday about how the former white house chief of staff plans to defend against a sweeping indictment in georgia. he spent three plus hours on the witness stand, and his attorney led him through a carefully orchestrated story of his last few months in office. the last take away that politics was central in his federal role as trump gate keeper inside the white house. sara murray is live for us with more on that. what was the broad takeaway from the argument, as we said, that meadows and his lawyer want theed the judge to hear. >> it's a gamable to put a criminal defendant under oath, but that's what they did with med does because they wanted to drive home this notion that everything he was doing, even if it seemed political, was part of his work as white house chief of staff and should be moved to federal court. so calls involving rudy giuliani, who was then trump's personal attorney, that was part of his official duties. the call to brad raffensperger, where trump asked him to find the vote, that was part of his official duties. voter fraud suspicion were a road block to the peaceful transfer of power and he was lie tricing to land the plane on this peaceful transfer of power to incoming president biden, which didn't go well considering january 6. his lawyer went so far to say essentially everything was within the scope of mark med does' duty, except if he went to the park and shot someone. >> very specific illustration there. appreciate that. here with me to share their insights is former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe, kristen holmes, and shan wu. the whole crux of what mark meadows said can be described in the following quote. there's a role for the chief of staff to make sure those campaign goals and objectives are implemented at the federal level. is that the role for the white house chief of staff, or is the chief of staff supposed to be dealing with the federal government and the president and his official capacity and not in the politics, which is what he argued in court yesterday? >> there are two different perspectives here. one, mark meadows, everything the president told him to do, that was his job and he was acting within the scope of his job, but that's not necessarily the way a judge is going to interpret what he was doing under color of authority. technically, color of authority means the acts that you undertook that were authorized by the statutes or the constitution that gives you the authority you have. so he is on shaky ground in terms of whether or not this judge is going to go along with his incredibly broad interpretation of his duties, or whether he's going to draw lines around things like the hatch act, no, you do these things as a federal official and you do other things that were political. they don't mix, therefore, no removal. >> so mark meadows was donald trump's chief of staff. pensacola's chief of staff, they were in very different position when is it comes to what was going on with the post election desperation to try to stay in office, and up through january 6th. i want you to listen to what mark short said to wolf blitzer yesterday about his skepticism of meadows' argument. >> if that was true, then why was he circumventing the advice. why wasn't the team involved? instead, mark recruited outside lawyers, who we want wanted to listen to. >> that was the problem for med does is what his lawyer said about this shooting someone in lafayette park. most of his testimony yesterday was going to what i would consider to be factual in this defense. his argument is i'm the chief of staff to the president. i have to handle everything. i have to take care of it. that white house means don't blame him. it might have had legal strategy to cut a deal ahead of time to say i was trying to serve the boss. i didn't realize it was illegal. where it doesn't work is to try to expand the job description to cover these accusations that were outside a normal chief of staff's duty. i think you can line up a dozen of them in the last century and none of them would say this was part of their normal duties. >> but i will say when it comes to what's normal and what's not normal, when you talk about the trump administration, most things are not normal. so if you're setting up -- if you look back on the january 6th committee and these various testimonies that put mark meadows at the center of all of this, really at the direction of donald trump, that's the question that i have when other people are listening to this. maybe they don't know what a chief of staff's job is. do they see this as, okay, this was what the president was focused on, this is what the chief of staff does. so wasn't he doing that in his capacity? >> is that relevant? >> i think it is relevant in the way that shan described. it's relevant to a jury, who might be thinking, hey, this guy was just following orders. he didn't know. but that's not what the standard is he's facing right now. he's trying to convince a judge that he was within the legal scope of his authority as chief of staff. even though it's a low bar, and most high ranking federal officials are successfully invoke things like removal and dismissal on immunity grounds, i'm not so sure he's going to be successful. >> one of the other things that meadows said was one of my jobs was trying to be gate keeper. that was a lot more challenging with president trump. you play offense and defense. i found myself playing defense a whole lot. that probably is one of the understatements of the year. >> right. same exact point. those are all minute to say this was a tough job. it doesn't go to this legal question of whether one, he has enough of a defense federally to be in federal court, and two, the real heart of his defense is the supremacy clause, meaning i'm a federal official. i can't be charged. in a lot of ways, this was a dry run for that. this was a hearing about his substantiative defense. that's why he gets up on the stand to take that chance to convince people, the judge that really factually, i'm innocent. i'm just doing my job. >> we don't have to remind people this is all happening against the backdrop of a campaign that donald trump is running again for president. one of his the competitors, chris christie, his superpac ran the first ad with the trump mug shot. let's watch. >> tired of the drama? the distractions? the lies? >> i think the trump people will love it. i think they like the idea of running with the mug shot. i think they are happy that chris christie will use that. i do think there's a concern when we come to general eligibility when all of those things that chris christie says in the ad is true. his own advisers have those concerns. people are going to be exhausted by the time they get to a general election, if he is the nominee. but in terms of putting that out there, they like having that out there. as you can see, that's what they did when they started selling their own merchandise almost immediately. >> we're going to talk about two gop rivals getting even more personal. waging a war of words on the 2024 campaign. we're going to have details, next. plus we're going to bring you the latest on hurricane idalia. what you need to know. including mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra. think bigger. every day, more dog people, and momore vets are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs they're quitting the kibble. dog food that's actually well, food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood thank you. when you walk up to the counter at the pharmacy and you have a new prescription, you don't know what it's gonna cost. that's why i always recommend you check the singlecare app before you go to the counter. before i pick up my prescription at the pharmacy, i always check singlecare. it only takes 10 seconds, and it's free to use. it helps me find a better price on my meds. with pharmacy partners nationwide, singlecare is saving millions of americans money on their meds each day. i found a cheaper price with singlecare. yes, you did. see, give it a try. go to singlecare.com or download the free app today. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪ ) ( ♪ ) ( ♪ ) -awww. -awww. -awww. -nope. 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[ applause ] >> the day you get your clearchoice dental implants makes every day a confident day... a never-hide-my-smile day... a life-of-the-party day... a take-on-the-world day... a believe-in-myself day... a flash-my-new-teeth day. because your clearchoice day is the day you get your confidence back for good. a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation. vivek ramaswamy is adding fire to his feud with nikki haley. in a new self-proclaimed fact checker page on his campaign website, his camp responded to hah lee's claim that the 38-year-old entrepreneur does not support israel. here's what that fact check says. wrong, keep lying. the desperation is showing. if that name doesn't sound familiar to you, we will explain. the former u.n. ambassador was born with nimarata randhawa. she took her husband's sir name. the republican responded saying i'm not going to get into the childish name calling. he of all people should know better than that, but i have given up on him knowing anything at this point. we saw the childish side of him on stage. let's discuss now. nia-malika henderson is here. cnn's kristen holmes is still with us. and heidi is with us. thank you so much. great to see you. nia, what are your thoughts on this? >> it was kind of a surprisingly low -- she used the word childish blow. progressives have tone this online, too, with suggesting she was ashamed of her indian heritage. i don't know what he's trying to do here other than kind of draw attention to himself and be an agent of chaos. that's who he was on the debate stage and that's who he is generally in this field. he's able to get under the skin of people. but it's certainly underscores their debate and the fuel that was lit at that debate and that nikki haley is trying to go after him and prove he is not ready for prime time. in some ways, this stunt, i don't know if it was a staffer or who did this on his page, but it prues it's amateurish and immature. >> it's a legacy of trumpism. trump wasn't there, but there he is using schoolyard taunts. what david brooks calls narcissistic. it's bizarre to see people of the same ethnicity making that attack, but it may work for him. if you look at the polling after the debate, haul hale within the up by a few points. he stayed kind of the same. the consensus among primary voters was he won. >> we have seen that with trump. that's how he won in the debates. >> you know who agrees, george will. he wrote, vivek ramaswamy brings a trumpism brazenist to denying the undenial. >> i think there's a niche audience for trump. so have this conservative online community that is fuelled by donald trump. it is the conservative pundits, the hosts, if you will, that really do support the former president, but they also support vivek ramaswamy. and it seems to me that the lane he's running in is where these conservative commentators on instagram and twitter are landing. it's these kind of niche group, fringe groups that do take this kind of thing. as you said, it's the product of trumpism and are backing him. it is juvenile, but it's not that it's not working because as we have seen, his poll numbers have gone up. as he's continued the rhetoric. >> he's had the understanding of a moment when you have the spotlight on him for quite some time, it turns out. we're going to go back in the way back machine. october of 2003, when al sharpton was running for president. >> i'm vivek. last week on the show, we had senator carey. this week we had senator edwards. my question for you of all the democratic candidates out there, why should i vote for the one with the least political experience? >> you shouldn't because i have the most political experience. i got involved in the political movement when i was 12 years old. >> vivek ramaswamy tweeted it's funny how the tables have turned. now he's the person with the least experience. >> i don't know if his answer is as good as al sharpton's was, but we'll see. that's how they are going to attack him. you saw that in the first debate. everyone attack him in that way. and listen, he's going to get the fire now from folks like you, who you interviewed him. he was interviewed on so many sunday shows and didn't do too well. his poll numbers have gone up, but his unfavorable numbers have gone up too among republicans who saw the debate. up next the latest update tracking the path of hurricane aye dal yan. a ya. also they like him. we're going to talk to a pollster about trump's enduring pop lairty with the gop voters, despite and maybe because of his legal woes. hi, we've both got a big birthday coming up. so we have a lot of questions about medicare plans. we've got a lot of answers! how can i help? well for starters, do you include hearing benefits? how about a plan with dental, vision and hearing benefits? i sure like the sound of that! then how does a zero dollar monthly plan premium sound? ooooooooh! if you're new to medicare, call 1-888-65-aetna. we'll 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counties, meaning millions are in danger. let's go back to derek van dam. what's the latest there? >> reporter: we still have more information to pass along. first, i want to give you perspective of what's happening. well away from the center of hurricane idalia, this is in the key west area. we're all familiar with this shot. you can see the dark skies and also the waves getting choppy. what i want to point out is that this is roughly 150 to 200 mile was from the strongest part of the strengthening hurricane that we're talking about. so my point being is that impacts will be felt well outside of the center, where this makes landfall. 85 mile per hour winds sustained, gusts over 100. this storm continues to strengthen. and there's explicit language from the national hurricane center they anticipate rapid intensification because it's feeding off of the warm waters that you see behind me. this is a live look at the radar. you can see some of the rain bands making its way into key west, the florida keys, the west coast of the peninsula. we're about an hour, maybe 45 minutes away from our first tropical storm rain bands. we anticipate those gusts to start to pick up here. why is the coast so vulnerable? it has to do with the storm surge. they just upped the numbers. 10 to 15 feet across the big bend. many areas still at play. tampa bay, 4 to 7 feet for you. >> wow, that's pretty scary stuff. thank you so much for that. appreciate it. now we're going to go back to the campaign trail. most republicans really like trump. that's the title of a "new york times" op-ed from strategist and pollster kristin ander season, who writes, voters see biden as beatable. they think most americans see him as they do. given that, most republicans aren't looking to be rescued from donald trump. the fact is they really do like him. at this point, they think he's their best shot. joining our conversation is the woman who wrote that and also a cnn political commentator kristen anderson. this is such a fascinating thing. if you talk to anybody who is on the democratic side, and even some independents, they almost cringe. they can't even conceive of the concept of liking donald trump. then according to what you wrote and we just know based on everything we have seen, it's the opposite when it comes to trump supporters. they don't support him begrudgingly, they genuinely like him. >> it's no surprise. we have seen poll after poll that he's far out in front, at least in national polls. but what is surprising is that it's not that they like him despite worrying he might struggle in a general election against biden, it's that in some ways they think he's their best shot against biden. polling from cbs news shows 61% of republican voters think that donald trump would be a sure bet to beat biden, because exactly how you describe kpdemocrats of trump, i can't believe anyone would like him, that's how republicans view biden they can't imagine anyone would vote for him. they think, sure, trump vs. biden, trump would win. >> this is part of one of the focus groups you did. quote, all the participants thought that president biden would lose to the eventual republican nominee, regardless of who it is. the fear if we nominate trump, biden wins was not present. why contenders haven't gained traction from eligibility arguments. >> there's been a real push from folks who are not donald trump say if you like policies, we'll do that. but i'm going to beat joe biden. that's why ron desantis is talking about i'm a winner. there was a point in time early on in the presidential primary where ron desantis and trump were closer to evenly matched. that has faded, as the mm ri of the midterms have gone away. now all of these contenders, you saw nikki haley try to make this argument in the debate, donald trump is not well liked. republican voters don't think trump is a risk. >> you're seeing on the screen exactly what kristen was talking about. the fact that they were closer early on and now it's not even close. >> i thought you really pointed out the break when that happened, at one point desantis was the future, the graek at that point was the bragg indictment. i think that also underscores the extent to which the liking of trump is also a grievance based. it's human nature. if we see someone who we honstly believed in life has been wronged, we want to see that person rise and have him avenge him himself. when you talk to trump supporters and see the passion out there that is kind of taken root since the bragg indictment, even democrats thought maybe this isn't good we went first with the bragg indictment. it riled them up. >> that's one side of it. you know this because you talk to trump sources, they saw a shift when the former president went to east palestine, ohio. so it was the concern about or the people liked the bidea because he's under attack, but he went back to where he started, which is i'm the guy for you in middle america and working class americans. >> this goes back to what i was saying about vivek ramaswamy. one of the things that trump and his team have been doing and they have been doing this since he announced, they have these dinners with these social media influencers on the conservative side. and they get feedback from them on what the biggest issues are that are riling up the far right. this is like the charlie kirks of the world. there are a lot of them. that dinner, that trip to east palestine stemmed from one of those. they believed the right was al rallying around in ohio and now they have really red state, and that it was not getting attention from the left and other candidates. they decided to go to east palestine. the reason i bring that up, i do think there's a strategy there, and i thought the most interesting part of the piece is when people were telling me they thought donald trump was going to lose. it was a depressing scene. he just walked out. it was really probably one of the lowest moments. but it goes to the fact he's always been able to bounce back. but they have the strategy in place where they are reaching out to conservatives and tapping into what they care about and then acting on it. >> i think the other thing that his competitors have prooumpb to not be great at. >> something to discuss after a break. that is a man who became a symbol for the working man in middle america in 2008. he became know as joe the plumber, and he died and left a legacy that he stumbled on in american politics. we'll talk about it, after a quick brbreak. ♪ ♪ ♪ wherever you go. wherever you stay. all you need is one key. earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels.com, and vrbo. gives you access to every game. but terry doesn't have directv. come on. work for dad- here... now, you can find the game easy. my barbecue is saved! get in the redzone with sports pack. call 1-800-directv my barbecue is ruined. hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ to have and to hold from this day 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[ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. good to see you, joe. >> i'm getting ready to buy a company that makes about 250, 270, 80 thousand dollars a year. >> all right. >> your new tax plan's going to tax me more, isn't it? >> nobody likes high taxes. >> no. >> of course not. but what's happened is we end up -- we've cut taxes a lot for folks like me who make a lot more than 250. we haven't given a break to folks who make less. i think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody. >> after that moment he was nicknamed joe the plumber. samuel joseph wurzelbacher passed away yesterday from complications from pancreatic cancer. in 2008 he emerged as the face of the struggling middle class after a chance meeting that you just saw with barack obama on the campaign trail. the moniker joe the plumber was used more than 20 times during the final 2008 presidential debate between barack obama and john mccain. >> i'm happy to talk to you, joe. >> people like joe the plumber. >> joe, i want to tell you. >> hey, joe. you're rich. >> that includes you, joe. >> i want joe, you to do the job. >> the conversation i had with joe the plumber -- >> what joe wanted to do -- >> joe was trying to realize the american dream. >> what you want to do to joe the plumber -- >> our panel is back with us. you were at that debate, weren't you? >> yeah. i was at that debate. and listen, this was a time when john mccain and republicans more broadly, they were trying to really attract white working-class voters, right? and if you think about the way barack obama did in that 2008 election, it's always a high water mark for democratic presidential candidates. he won ohio. he won windiana more goodness sake which is hard to fathom given where we are now. but this was kind of the emergence of what we see now, the sort of grievance politics, the white identity politics and this idea that white working-class, particularly men i think, are sort of the victims of democratic policies and you see republican candidates really going after them. >> heidi, we covered the mccain campaign back in 2008. joe the plumber wasn't just talked about at that debate. he was on the trail. a lot. >> it was really the seed i think of branding opportunity in the republican party that donald trump fully realized in the forgotten man. what needs to happen now from biden's perspective is he needs a joe the plumber because joe confronted barack obama about taxes there but what's happened since then is when trump got in one of his first policies was to cut taxes in a way that primarily benefited corporate stock buybacks, whereas joe biden's done this policy of like hardhat proposals like infrastructure. and yet somehow the democratic party really struggles with this segment of the population that really believes that they're aggrieved and that the economic policies of the democratic party has hurt them for the worse when in fact you have this huge accomplishment, for instance, with infrastructure that's just a lost opportunity. >> yeah, it really is the example of the shift in where the parties are and who they are appealing to. and we saw with hillary clinton the number of working class, even union households go down when it came to her support. it crept back up a bit because joe the biden, who was on the ballot, the question of course is what's going to happen this year. >> it does seem as though trump still has a grip on this white working-class demographic, particularly in the rust belt, when you talk about ohio and pennsylvania. i even spoke to a gop operative in pennsylvania yesterday who was not a trump fan but says that they believe if he's the nominee there's a really real chance that he could win. it's interesting that he still happens to have this grip. >> all right, everybody. thank you so much. thank you for joining "inside politics." 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