Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe

his mother said a lot of things. >> god love you, indeed. good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, march 19th. with us, we have msnbc contributor, mike barnicle, and white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lamir. joe and mika have the morning off. it is a busy morning, though, as kasie just mentioned, we're getting fans in the stands for baseball. >> good for you. >> mets, yankees, 20% capacity, a few thousand fans in there. at least it's a start. i know how excited you are about the yankees' hot start and spring training and seeing some of those great yankees' fans populating that stadium in the bronx. >> as my mother would say -- actually, i can't say that on the air. >> you better no. >> we're going to have 12% capacity at fenway park. >> lamir, you excited for the yanks? they're looking good in the spring? >> willie, my question is, as yankee stadium fills up to 10, 15, 20% capacity, that's obviously going to leave a lot of empty seats, particularly down low behind home plate. my question for you is how will that be different than any other season? >> that's true. >> that was a nice windup to one that really hits. >> that's true, though. the seats are so expensive down there behind home plate. >> i want to hear you about the good seats, mike. let's get to the news today. president joe biden is expected to deliver on his administration's promise of 100 million covid shots in his first one hundred days in office. >> i'm proud to announce that tomorrow, 58 days into our administration, we will have met my goal of administering 100 million shots to our fellow americans. that's weeks ahead of schedule. and even with the setbacks we faced during the winter storms, i always said, that's just the floor. we will not stop until we beat this pandemic. next week, i will announce our next goal to put shots in arms. this is a time for optimism. but it's not a time for relaxation. i need all americans, i need all of you to do your part. >> meanwhile, president biden and vice president kamala harris will travel to atlanta today in the wake of the spa shootings that left eight people dead on tuesday, including six women of asian descent. so jonathan lamir, the president and vice president, as i said, this was long on the books to go down and push the covid relief package and talk about its benefits, but quickly became something different. they've canceled that part of the trip and made the focus the terrible attack on tuesday at those spas. >> that's right, willie. i'll be traveling with the president. this trip has indeed taken on a new light in the wake of the terrible spa shootings earlier this week. georgia, as we know, arguably the most important political state on the map. it went to joe biden in november. he was the first democrat to win there since 1992. and it was a pair of senate runoffs in early january. democrats captured both of those, which flipped the senate to their control, a 50/50 tie with vice president harris casting the tiebreaking vote. it's in fact georgia that allowed joe biden's administration to pass this $1.9 trillion covid relief bill. they wanted to make an early stop there on their tour to tout what's in this piece of legislation. they're still going, there'll still be a little bit of politics, as we reported last night. president biden is still going to meet with stacey abrams, which is widely credited for spearheading voter registration drives. the president will make a stop at the cdc about the latest on the pandemic response. but he will also meet with asian american community leaders, both state legislators, local leaders, other lawmakers, and community officials to talk about what happened this week. and also, how it comes at a time, a real rise of violence against asian american communities. hate crimes and bias incidents. a lot of asian americans really on edge as to what happened. and the president and the white house has said that the president will listen to them, share their concerns, and make sure he knows the federal government is behind him and look to him to tout executive orders he's signed to reduce hate crimes. >> let's go down to atlanta, where we find nbc news correspondent blayne alexander for us again this morning. blayne, good to see you. what more do we know about the shooter since we spoke to you last? >> reporter: we heard from atlanta police yesterday. we've gotten briefings every day or some portion of a briefing every day since these shootings unfolded earlier this week. what we heard from atlanta police yesterday is really making it clear that their investigation just getting started. we remember that there were two different jurisdictions, because this took place over such a wide kind of span. almost this 200-mile stretch between where the first shooting took place and where the suspect was initially -- was ultimately captured. so, we're talking about two different jurisdictions. atlanta police made the point yesterday, though, that they are facing two things. one, they are, of course, looking at a motive. they're trying to determine exactly what it is that led the alleged gunman to walk into three different locations here in atlanta and open fire, killing eight people. they also made the point that, yes, even though he was apprehended several hours afterward, even though as cherokee county sheriff's office has said, they have been talking to him, they have been kind of interrogating him, there is still a lot left to uncover. of course, the big question is, what is the motive there. was this motivated by race, motivated by hate, a hate crime specifically? so they're going to be talking to, you know, there is one survivor. they're going to be likely talking to that individual. they're going to be finding out what, if anything, was said by this alleged shooter when he walked into these different places. so those are things that they're looking to uncover, as well. another thing we learned from this news conference, willie, is remember, there were eight victims, eight people who were killed. right now we only know the names of four of them. only four of them have been publicly identified. that's because the four people that were killed here in the metro atlanta area, they're having a difficult time getting in touch with their family, their next of kin, so they've reached out to the consulate, trying to get some kind of way to contact the loved ones of these individuals to let them know what's happened. that's another barrier that police are coming up against this morning, willie. >> mike, if you look at the list of some of the victims who have been identified, it's important to tell their stories. there was a woman who was a customer there, who had an 8-month-old baby who was killed. there was a woman who worked there whose child just graduated from the university of georgia, the woman would have turned 50 yesterday. we need to hear about their stories, as well. >> as usual, willie, those stories are so deeply touching, because the lingering effects of this heinous hate crime will go on for a long, long time, with the victims. and blayne, there was one victim in particular, a young man from guatemala, who was just walking past one of the places that was shot up and he is hospitalized in very serious condition. do we know anything more about the condition of that lingering victim? >> reporter: we do, actually. you know, we understand that he is expected to make a full recovery. that's the good news. we spoke with the niece of that individual that you're talking about last night. and she kind of walked us through what she knows about those harrowing moments. she talked about the fact that her uncle was, in the moments afterwards, just called his wife and essentially said, i've been shot, come here, repeatedly, saying this to her in spanish. and she described the fact that as his wife listened to him on the phone, his voice seemed to continue to fade and get softer and softer and softer. but the good news is, he will make a full recovery, but as you mentioned, eight people will not. their families will never be the same. i'm glad you brought up the victims. i spoke to the sister of delana on, she was the mother of two, including an 8-month-old baby girl that was born last july. her sister told me and everyone that i've spoken to of the family has said she was the rock of the family. she would open up her home and let people stay there if they needed a place to stay. this is one snapshot of the many, many lives that have been fractured from tuesday's events, guys. >> nbc's blayne alexander. asian american lawmakers and academic experts testified yesterday about the recent spike in targeted hate crimes across the united states. the hearing that had been scheduled weeks before the has shooting in georgia focused on the increased anti-asian rhetoric during the coronavirus pandemic. >> last year, i heard at the highest level of government, those people used racist slurs like china virus to spread xenophobia and cast blame on innocent communities. it was all too familiar. comments like these only build upon the legacy of racism, anti-asian sentiment and insensitivity that seeks to divide our community. >> blaming the api community for a public health crisis is racist and wrong. >> asian americans must not be used as scapegoats in times of crisis. >> i'm asking you to please stop using racist terms like kung flu, the wuhan virus, or other ethnic identifiers in describing this virus. i am not a virus. >> the house recently passed hr-908, but i was disheartened to find that a bill that requires no money or resources, 164 members of, all republican, voted against it. if this was a synagogue or black church, would we be asking if this were a hate crime or not? >> we have no free speech to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. and what is happening right now, the asian americans are in a crowded theater where we are being endangered. >> if america were such a hate-filled discriminatory, racist society, filled with animus against asian americans, how do you explain the remarkable success of asian americans in our country. it deeply saddens me that instead of uniting as americans, this hearing seeks to divide us as americans. >> when california republican speaking there. let's bring in nbc news correspondent jo ling covering yesterday. this was on the books for a long time. also brought to a head, they have not established a motive in georgia by the events down there. what was your takeaway from the hearing, and what are next steps? what's the progress that can come out of this? >> willie, good morning. when you think about it, there has not been an anti-asian american hearing in nearly 40 years. it got really personal very quickly for these lawmakers and for those activists and experts, and daniel dae kim, the actor and producer sharing their stories. but what kept coming up was this deep sense of partisan divide. and you had a moment with congressman chip roy from the state of texas, who was criticizing the very existence of the hearing. i'll let you hear what he had to say and it is quite controversial and you'll hear from representative grace mang and her response. >> we believe in justice. there are old sayings in texas about find the rope in texas and the fall esttallest oak tree. my concern about this hearing, it seems to want to venture into the policing of rhetoric in a free society. now we're talking about whether talking about china the chicoms, the chinese communist party, and some people are saying, hey, we think those guys are the bad guys. >> i want to go back to something that mr. roy said earlier. your president and your party and your colleagues can talk about issues with any other country that you want. but you don't have to do it by putting a bull's-eye on the back of asian americans across this country, on our grandparents, on our kids! this hearing was to address the hurt and pain of our community, and to find solutions and we will not let you take our voice away from us. >> congressman grace meng's emotional response very much reflects what most of the asian american community feels. the coopting of american identity, of americanness, of otherization that continues to be pervasive, regardless of what the motive may or may not have been in atlanta. so we checked in with congressman roy to see if he really did mean that. and we got this statement back from his office, saying in part, apparently some folks are freaking out that i used an old expression about finding all the rope in texas and a tall oak tree about carrying out justice against bad guys. congressman roy goes on to say, i meant it, we need more justice and less thought policing. no apologies. but of course, if you look at the data of why this rhetoric is so dangerous, willie, it is clear a majority of asian american women are reporting hate incidents, ranging from verbal assault to shunning to physical assault on the streets. there's been no shortage of videos showing us what's been happening over the last year. so a lot of lawmakers pushing back forcefully. congressman roy saying "words matter," and this kind of stuff is not productive. to a lot of criticism within this. as congress tries to figure out the next step forward, which could include a couple of pieces of legislation, the no-hate act currently being considered. and a piece of legislation from congresswoman meng and hirono about beefing up the way hate crimes are reported, willie. >> we heard some republicans in particular downplaying what's happening to asian americans in this country. police departments from new york to l.a. to san francisco and all over the country aren't making up these statistics about the spike in the surge in violence and rhetoric against asian americans. did you see as you watched the hearing or hear at any point, joe, any contrition or at least an acknowledgement that some of the rhetoric the very people in the room have used when talking about coronavirus in particular. of course, the rhetoric that president trump used that may have contributed to this spike? >> largely, that was not the case from the republican side. we did see representative meng talk about how this moment is extremely important and we need to come together as a country to stop this from happening. but you're absolutely right in the sense that police departments have been on alert, communities are now taking it within their own hands to have volunteers escort elderly asian americans to do their routine tasks like go to the grocery store, get on the bus. and these are things that we haven't seen in a long time. and i think there was a moment that really struck me. congresswoman matsui who was during in a japanese internment camp during world war ii here in the united states warning of her own family's personal history and experience with this type of charged language and action. and really, what it can lead to, that history is not so far behind us, that these are issues that we continue to grapple with as a society. and i think for so long, especially over the past 30, 40 years, a lot of people, asian americans in our community feel that there's been this otherization. that there's a lot of the issues have been swept under the rug. so you can see why this hearing was so emotionally charged and there's a lot of hope within the community that some change will come as a result of the past 13, 14 months. but again, it takes a political will to get that done and we didn't necessarily see that unfold on the hill in this virtual hearing yesterday. >> and powerful testimony, though. nbc's jo ling kent. thanks so much for the report. let's bring into the conversation, former chairman of the republican national committee and msnbc political analyst, michael steele. and professor at the lyndon b. johnson school of public affairs at the university of texas, msnbc contributor victoria d'francesco soto. michael, let me ask you first about that hearing. we heard from kevin mccarthy afterward who said he did not regret using the term chinese coronavirus. he said, that's just a statement of fact, it's where it came from, but it's some of the other rhetoric that we've heard from president trump and others that we know has been tied to some of the violence and attacks against asian americans over the last year. >> here's the thing, if your asian american colleagues come to you and say, please would you not use that term, mr. speaker at the time or minority leader, would you not use that term, why wouldn't you just do what they asked? if they say to you, that's offensive to us. so this lack of sensitivity, this lack of, i don't care, i'm going to double down, triple down. we've seen it with marjorie taylor greene, we've seen it with congressman roy here. and you see it most disturbingly from the leadership, which continues to soft pedal, soft step, not engage on these things, sort of turn their head and pretend it's not happening. but the testimony of citizens and asian american leaders in congress as well as around the country, you can't overcome that by turning your head. that's the problem here. it doesn't go away just because you want to ignore it. and the fact is, if you don't account for it now, you will account for it later. because you don't get to come back on the back end and pretend it didn't happen while you're asking the asian american community to support your candidates and your party in the upcoming cycle. at the end of the day, that's what it still remains all about, willie. how do we position ourselves to avoid getting wiped out in an upcoming election with all the baggage that we're carrying? and this is one more massive amount of baggage that the party is adding to its back, as it goes into elections. because now candidates around the country are going to be asked, so, do you agree with congressman roy? do you agree that, you know, the way we execute justice in this country is to find the tallest oak tree and put a rope on it? because i know that's not going to sell in my neighborhood. and i know it's not going to sell in a lot of neighborhoods, including some white neighborhoods. that's the problem. this thinking that this is going to fly because, you know, it's out there in the ether and people understand. no, we don't understand what you're saying. and you're not clarifying it at all. you're making it worse. and i think the comments from the members, the asian community in congress and around the country, you have to lean into it and understand what they hear when they say, let's put a rope out and it on a tree, that's our justice. >> victoria, obviously, this has been a year when many, many lives, most lives in this country and around the world have been disrupted and many, many lives have been badly damaged. and when you look at the damage incurred by the virus and you add rhetoric that purely enflames specific numbers of people in this country, it's no wonder really that this happened to a group of asian people in atlanta. and yet, the victims, the rhetoric that we've heard specifically and largely over the past year adds to the burden and the numbers of people, different kinds of people, people of color, people at the border. and people in massage parlors in atlanta. it's incredible. >> we've had so much pain, mike, this year. and what we saw in georgia just adds to that pain of this country. and i think that when we're looking at what happened in georgia in particular, it reinforces the notion that words matter, they have consequences, and in the case of georgia, they have deadly consequences. and it's this otherization that has been hammered home over the last couple of years. regrettably, our country has a troubling history of otherization. and in particular with the asian american community, we can go back historically to the chinese exclusion acts of the late 1800s that were on the books until the mid1900s. and as we were talking about earlier, the japanese internment camps. there is this very troubling history. and a couple of things that the republican lawmakers said, i want to bring up and take issue with. one of the republican lawmakers said, you know, this really isn't a big deal. look how well asian americans are doing. he is using the trope of the model minority. and this is a trope that is frequently used to dismiss anything related to asians and being able to dig into the problems we're seeing with their rhetoric and their treatment, right? the second piece, and this is to my home state representative chip roy that i found so troubling was the fact like, what, do you want to police our thought? is this thought policing? no, representative, it is not thought policing, it is being conscientiousness about our words. common sense would tell you words matter, words have consequences, right, okay? but if you don't believe in common sense, i invite you to look at a whole body of literature in social psychology, in political psychology, i will give you the citations for that, that show that hate speech erodes empathy and in turn affects behavior and the way we view our outgroup counterpart. so words matter. >> absolutely. everybody, stay put. we've got a great group assembled this morning. still ahead, the house passes two immigration bills that would provide a path to citizenship for millions. also, a report from the southern border, as the biden administration struggles to manage the largest surge of migrants in two decades. plus, the fbi releases a slew of new video that officials say showed the most egregious assaults on officers during the capitol riot. will it help to identify more suspects? but first, bill karins gives us a look at the forecast. >> the storm that produced over 30 tornadoes over the last two days is finally exiting today, along with it all that heavy rain in the northeast. we'll be rewarded with a pretty decent weekend. we have to get there first. the only rain and snow left, a little bit on cape cod and rain through areas of virginia and north carolina. a little ugly early today and it will improve as we go throughout the afternoon. a storm is moving into the northwest. this will plague us this weekend. if you're congratlations, a beautiful weekend for you. saturday, it will improve. we will see is a chilly start in the northeast. a nice, sunny afternoon. a little cool in the southeast, but you'll take it. sunshine and temperatures in the 50s and 60s. there's that storm in the northwest. and it looks like by sunday, we start to warm up the eastern half of the country, we're rewarded with a really, really nice march weekend in many places of the country. should be pretty good. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. atching "mo" we'll be right back. 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"the washington post" says, it was not a quid pro quo conditioning the delivery of vaccine doses on an enforcement crackdown, rather, the united states made clear it sought help from mexico in managing a record influx of central american teenagers and children. so, jonathan lamir, let's start with the vaccine itself. so we're not using in the united states, to be clear, the astrazeneca vaccine. there are three other vaccines, and that's not included among them. so where are these doses coming from and why are we giving them away? >> willie, right now, the united states is very happy. they really ramped up their vaccine supply. and the president has made, by the end of may, every adult american who wants one, should be able to get them, thanks to pfizer, moderna, and johnson & johnson. but there is this contract that the u.s. had purchased millions of doses from astrazeneca, which does not have approval here in the u.s., the fda has not signed off yet, but is being used in other places. it's had some hiccups in the rollout in europe. we've had some countries start and stop when they use it, but it has been authorized and there's been growing pressure on the u.s. to give away, to hand out these dose that they've already gotten. so victoria, my question to you would be, we've heard the denials from the u.s. officials, about the sudden reversal, that now that they're allowing these vaccines to be distributed to canada, but most notably mexico. what do you think about the timing, that this change comes just as we're seeing this real surge, a real crisis for the biden administration at the southern border? >> jonathan, i've got to admit, it is a bit of a coincidence. especially because the relationship between president biden and president andres manuel luis obrador has not been the best. president luis obrador was one of the last world leaders to call joe biden and congratulate him for winning the presidency. he held out, even though there was at first a tumultuous relationship between amlo and president trump, they both eventually found their own groove, both entrenched in populist streaks. we know in january during that call, that lopez obrador did make a request for vaccines, and that at that point, the biden administration said, no, we're focused on the u.s. but even in march when there was a meeting, early march, there was still a pushback. but now it seems that as the u.s. is getting increasingly vaccinated, the timing is right, at the same time that we see the border influx. i think it is a favorable coincidence for the biden team. >> i want to come back to you in a moment, victoria, on the crisis at the border. but jonathan did mention the oxford astrazeneca covid-19 vaccine now has been deemed safe for use in the european union after more than a dozen countries had halted its rollout following several reports that it caused blood clots. let's bring in nbc news senior international correspondent, keir simmons. keir, good morning. it so looks like this has been cleared, largely, and that there is no connection according to the w.h.o and to most scientists between this vaccine and those blood clots. >> reporter: no connection, including to the group, the body that oversees these things for europe, the ema. so they now are rolling out the astrazeneca vaccine again in germany, in france, in european countries. but it's a mess, honestly, willie, because the europeans do have supply side issues with the astrazeneca vaccine. they have some legal issues. but ultimately, they have a political challenge and they seem to somehow have allowed the politics to lead the way, rather than the science. remember, a while back, the europeans questioned astrazeneca's efficacy in people over 65. then they said, actually, no, we were wrong about that, if you like. now they had this question mark over whether it causes blood clots. that isn't science. and again, they've now had to reverse it. it's a really difficult picture here in europe, because there's already a good deal of vaccine hesitancy on the continent. just for example, 36% of europeans, only 36% say they are fully confident in the safety of vaccinations. the french, for example, only 40% say they would want toa vaccination. and what the politicians in europe are effectively doing are kind of like increasing that concern. just at the stage where they're already behind on vaccinations and where they're already facing a third wave of coronavirus. >> so keir, you mentioned that third wave. paris has gone into a four-week lockdown. what is the state of the virus in europe? and i ask, because in so many ways over the last year, america has looked at europe as a sign of what may be coming. >> reporter: i think the big headline, though, and this is different from the u.s. and the uk right now, is that the europeans are just so much further behind in terms of the vaccination rates. and they're losing that race against the variants. for example, the south african variant is increasing? france and that vaccine does challenge vaccines, it doesn't mute them, but makes them less effective according to the science. so there is a real concern. in paris, 4,000 people in icu, some having to be transferred now to other regions, because they're under so much pressure. they're now having to instigate another lockdown in paris, a month long, the same has happened in italy. they call them red zones. there are now more red zones across italy than not. so it is a deeply worrying picture that they may not have a happy summer. and of course, one of the crucial things about all of this, willie, to remember is that this isn't -- we're not just going to vaccinate and it's done. there's going to be wave after wave of vaccinations. that does mean, of course, that the europeans have the opportunity to get this right, going forward. but i think looking forward, europe may have changes, going right up to the fall and the winter. >> on another matter, keir, you spent an awful lot of time over the last several years covering vladimir putin, covering russia. mr. putin responded to president biden's comments that he thinks that the russian president is a, quote, killer. biden describing putin as having no soul. putin said he wished his counterpart in washington good health and was saying that without irony, but charged that the comments reflected america's own troubled past. putin said the, the legacy of slavery and the country's treatment of native americans weighed heavily on its dealings abroad, talking about america. putin said, quote, in the history of every people, every state, there are a lot of hard, dramatic, and bloody events, but when we evaluate other people or even other governments, we always look as if into the mirror. we always see ourselves in it, putin said. i remember when was young and i got into fights with my friends, we always used to say, whoever calls names is called that himself. at yesterday's press briefing, the white house secretary jen psaki was asked how the president's comments may affect relations with russia. >> does president biden regret calling vladimir putin a killer? >> no. the president gave a direct answer to a direct question. the president already had a conversation, already, with president putin, even if there are more world leaders that he has not yet engaged with. and we engage with russian leaders, members of the government at all levels. but i don't have anything to report to you in terms of a future meeting. >> so keir, president biden taking great pains to show that his posture toward russia and toward vladimir putin is going to be much different than his predecessors. >> yeah, you know what, i think this is the week where the rubber hits the road with the biden foreign policy. we've had congressional hearings and big foreign policy speeches. but now we're really seeing things mapped out. i would say, it's important to note that while recalling their ambassador, the russians continue to talk about trying to improve relations with the u.s. i think at the same time, we're really facing a little bit of reality here. there's been a hybrid war on -- on cyber, that has been going now for years between the u.s. and russia and actually, frankly, between the u.s. and other countries, including china. and now, i think we're hearing -- seeing some real politic in public, if you like. i would say this. i think it's interesting to note that what president putin said criticizing effectively america for racism echos the chinese said to the secretary of state yesterday in yesterday that extraordinary change with anthony blinken. the chinese too, criticizing america for racism, effectively. talking about black lives matter. so there you see a similarity in the approaches of china and russia. i think why it's not to say how -- what approach america should necessarily take, however, i think it's worth pointing out that this alliance between china and russia is challenging and worrying for the u.s. >> you're absolutely right. and it was on full display yesterday. you mentioned that first face-to-face meeting between the biden administration and chinese representatives. things not off to a good start, to say the least. nbc's andrea mitchell reports the two sides were tense before the meeting began. a photo op that was scheduled to last more than five minutes ended up taking well over an hour after both sides went over on opening statements and rebuttals to accusations. a u.s. official called out the chinese to reporters, saying they did not come to the talks the good faith. quote, the united states delegation came to anchorage, committed to laying out the principles, interests, and values that animate our engagement with beijing. the chinese delegation, on the other hand, seems to have arrived intent on grandstanding, focused on public theet at r th dramatics over substance. they were originally scheduled to meet again today, but it's unclear if that will happen. keir, we rarely see this kind of a rivalry spill out into the open the way id edit. it was what you call a pool spray, where the cameras come, you exchange some niceties for four to five minutes and the cameras leave the room. this went on for well over an hour. there was a lot of translation mixed into it. but the two sides effectively attacking each other in very specific terms in front of the cameras. >> reporter: absolutely. stunning diplomacy the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time. in a sense, i guess, you could say that this is the u.s. and china having the fight that they've been wanting to have for a long time. i think the big question is, what happens next? you know, we have these huge trade ties with the chinese, there's the indopacific challenges. there are so many pieces of this chess board and do the two sides, if you like, now, move forward, figure out where they can work together and where they don't agree and kind of are they -- is the china and u.s. able to divide those? and another big question, where do the allies fall? how does japan respond? how does south korea respond, in direct relation to russia, what does europe do. and in relation to china? remember, the europeans just signed a huge trade deal with the chinese before the administration took office, despite the biden administration trying to urge the europeans not to do that. it's fascinating and it could get more challenging going forward. everything depends tonight diplomacy, willie. >> nbc's keir simmons. we covered your full portfolio this morning. thanks so much for being with us. always good to see you. jonathan lamir, as you cover this white house, obviously, they're going to have to take on these twin challenges of russia and china. and as i said, they were side by side display of just how big that challenge is yesterday, particularly in the case of china, as keir points out. you just don't see that, where it's out in the open, where you had one side making its case, the cameras ready to leave, and then the other side, no, no, cameras, you stay, we want to rebut what that side just said? >> that was an extraordinary display of tension like that. and you're right, these pool sprays, they're formalities. usually three to four minutes, you're in, you're out. nothing of note is said. that was not the case yesterday. and biden's team is clearly right to set a firm tone with china, which looms as the major foreign policy challenge of his administration so michael steele, in these early moments, we're already hearing some criticism from republicans on the biden approach, particularly his labeling vladimir putin a killer, ramping up tensions there with -- and putin challenging biden to some sort of televised debate, which would be must-see tv, i suppose, but it seems like it's the relationship with china in particular that looms so large over the map. what do you make of these early steps and what do you make of the republican response to it? >> i think the early steps reflect the biden administration taking the size of china and china doing the same with america. this is a new dynamic, geopolitically. certainly, the global interests that relate to the pacific rim, the global interests that relate to trade and certainly the global interests that relate to the middle east. so the realities go beyond just the economics. just beyond what we typically have in the discussion around china. and i think the biden administration wanted to stake or at least mark out just a little bit with some degree of clarity where they stand on a number of these issues. and the chinese are like, okay, let's do that. and so, i'm not as -- you know, oh, my god, about what happened yesterday with that pool spray. i think that's actually rather healthy to sort of put that out there so that we all can begin to see exactly what that dance is going to look like. it's going to take some work over the coming years. for republicans, it's more of a political dynamic than a geopolitical one. they're still in the shadow of china, you know, in terms of how trump used to look at our relationships with china and its allies. and so, you're going to hear more of that. you're going to hear that sort of trumpian overtone with respect to what biden does in this space. and certainly with respect to pushback on putin, you know, how dare you say, that's just so offensive. consistent with what trump had said with our relationship with russia, but the reality with the republicans is, trump doesn't get to make that call anymore and biden does. and i think you're going to find the allies and a vast majority of the world standing along with biden with respect to how we look at russia versus the way we looked at them under trump. >> still ahead this morning, new insight into the trump organization's longtime money man, who's now cooperating with prosecutors investigating the former president. an nbc news exclusive straight ahead. resident an nbc news 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from td ameritrade. visit tdameritrade.com/learn ♪ investigators are looking closely at donald trump's real estate empire, his taxes, and finances of it all. a key figure in the manhattan's district attorney's probe, the man who handled trump taxes, allen weisselberg. nbc news investigative correspondent tom winter spoke exclusively with weisselberg's former daughter-in-law, who's offering insight into trump's top money man, his family, and the ongoing investigation. >> reporter: for 14 years, jennifer weisselberg was married to son of trump organization chief financial officer, allen weisselberg. >> allen is defined by what trump thinks about him, about saving him money regardless, every day, proving his worth by doing that, creatively. >> what do you think he could tell investigators? >> everything they would ask. >> do you think he could be the ultimate tour guide into the trump orbit? >> yes! >> reporter: she says she gained her own insights into the trump orbit before her marriage to barry weisselberg ended in a bitter divorce. from visiting trump's signature golf courses to her front row seat at the 2016 presidential inaugural, she says the weisselberg family has been loyal to donald trump and he's been good to them. her ex-husband, barry, managing trump's ice rinks in new york's central park. and she believed in 2004 trump and melania gave them a big wedding gift. their own apartment overlooking the park. >> so you thought that the apartment you were living in was a gift. this is a, congratulations -- >> i wrote them a "thank you" note. >> and all along, it was just a corporate trump organization apartment. >> i didn't understand these things. i was a ballet dancer. come on! >> reporter: in reality, trump didn't give them the apartment. he let them live there rent-free, paying only for utilities, an arrangement that could raise legal and tax questions about how the weisselbergs and the trump organization accounted for it. when the arrangement was reported last fall it, caught the attention of manhattan district attorney cy vance's office. the prosecutor who went all the way to the supreme court and got trump's tax returns, now in the thick of a grand jury investigation. how many times have you specifically talked with the manhattan district attorney's office? >> multiple times. >> okay. >> and it's not over. >> reporter: she declined to detail her conversations with investigators, and is speaking out as her long and bitter divorce case is still playing out in court. she's already lost custody of her kids. >> i have no reason to be here, except that, i am not a woman who is willing to live a life of secrecy out of fear any longer. they will outresource me in the courts forever. and i have tried to be graceful and handle this privately. and they are not agreeing to do so at all. what choice do i have, tom? >> you want your kids back? >> yes! that's why i'm here. >> there are going to be people that watch this and listen to you and hear the words that you say and are going to think, this is somebody who is after their ex-husband or this is somebody who has an axe to grind against a family. how do you respond to those people? >> i can't care anymore what people think. i know who i am. my kids know who i am. people that love me know who i am. and i absolutely wish that i personally didn't have the attachment to somebody that has the same ethics as the trump/weisselberg family. >> reporter: jennifer says there's good reason that prosecutors are so interested in what her former father-in-law knows. >> allen would not take an hour or day off if donald was in the office, because i think he felt like he had to be there all the time, but also, they are a team. his office is right next door. he discusses everything with him. >> attorneys for allen weisselberg had no comment. now vance's office is plowing through several million pages of trump's financial documents. the vast majority of those filings overseen by allen weisselberg. it could be months before prosecutors determine whether charges should be filed. >> and tom winter joins us now live. tom, good morning. obviously, allen weisselberg is a pivotal figure in all of this. he knows where all the proverbial bodies are buried in the trump organization. but you're zeroing in on that apartment on central park west that your guest told you was a wedding gift from melania and donald trump. why is that significant? >> if you think of this investigation as a highway and there's a bunch of different lanes on this highway, investigators will try to go down to figure out whether or not they eventually charge anybody or how many people they charge and for what. and i think this is one of the pieces of one of those lanes. when you look at an apartment, was it properly accounted for? donald trump's signature is on the apartment, when it was eventually sold in 2014. so the president -- the former president directly signed it. so you have to wonder, was it correctly accounted for in the trump organization? we asked those questions. was it appropriately accounted for by the weisselbergs? and how did this all kind of get put together. it's one of the things, when you heard cy vance talk about this case, it's kind of that tax bracket and whether or not assets were valued correctly. i think that this might fall into that, willie. >> tom, do we know whether allen weisselberg as asked for or been offered immunity? >> that's a great question, mike. i asked a series of questions of allen weisselberg's attorneys yesterday. as you heard in the piece, they said no comment. so at this point, i haven't heard that that's been the case. and we asked whether or not they might cooperate or might seek to talk to the manhattan district attorney's office. i think at this point, mike, time will tell. >> all right. nbc's tom winter. we'll hear much more about this, i know. tom, thanks so much. let's turn now to the economy. the labor department reported an expected jump in jobless claims last week. economists had expected about 700,000 new claims, but more than 770,000 were reported. that's up from 720,000 the week before. despite the increase, claims are still near their lowest level since the pandemic began. meanwhile, millions of americans have begun to receive stimulus checks courtesy of the american rescue plan, but our next guest says the package is not just about how the country will recover from the pandemic, but it shows changing priorities for the democratic party. our friend ana gearendardis joins us now. he's author of "winners take all" and publisher of the news letter, "the inink." also with us, founder of punch bowl news, ana palmer. ana, there are many progressives who like the way this is headed. this big bold, $1.9 trillion package, looking for more in infrastructure, looking for more beyond that. where do you think democrats should go with the power they have now? >> first of all, i think the possibility that has emerged that i didn't foresee to be perfectly frank is that joe biden turns out to be more persuadable. not to say perfectly aligned with, but more persuadable than a lot of people in american public life are. so there has been the possibility of moving on some of these things. and if you look at, as you said, in the intro, obviously, there's just important substantiative programs here. there's real money going to people as of several days ago. but there is new thinking in here, a new set of ideas on conventional wisdom that seems to be on the rise in american life, which feels even more significant in the long-term. and number one, giving people money directly, that's been a taboo, but an idea on the rise, instead of elaborate programs. centering the poor, not just the middle class in american politics. we also talk about the middle class, the middle class, people don't want to talk about the poor, because that drives up resentment of moderate white voters. bill really centers the poor. the tax and other benefits are tilted most to the poor. there's a real shift in who joe biden is listening to compared to the obama and clinton years of democratic office holding. this is not the goldman sachs/citigroup crew designing this stuff. those people as politico and others have reported are not at the cool kids table. and finally, deficit anxiety. remember deficit anxiety? that word that we're deficit almost never came up for most people in this debate over this stimulus. and it suggests, i think, a growing adherence to stephanie kelton's idea of modern monetary theory and others, that we actually need to focus on getting investment into people, to live their fullest lives. and not worry about narrow accounting in a crisis like this. >> and ana palmer, for all the reasons that anand just laid out, there are many progressives, many democrats in this country who say, just get rid of that filibuster. we're in power now, we have the 50 votes we need on everything. let's push forward on things like hr-1. james clyburn has said, civil rights are too important to be held up by a few votes. let's get that through. do you think there's enough movement to do something about the filibuster, despite the fact that people like joe manchin, kyrsten sinema and others have said, that ought to stay in place. there is appetite now that they have seen with nearly $2 trillion of spending in this last bill, a lot of it going towards attacking poverty. not just focused on the covid and pandemic crisis, is there an appetite to move the filibuster to the side and get through progressive priorities? >> i think there might be appetite, but i think that progressives are ultimately going to be very disappointed here. there is not the kind of momentum you would need to get rid of the filibuster. you mentioned joe manchin and kyrsten sinema, but there are a lot more members that are very spectacle of just getting rid of the filibuster writ large. they've been in the minority before. they understand what, you know, that would mean for a mitch mcconnell, who has been very starkly giving floor statements about how he would use that if they choose to get rid of the filibuster. and i think while progressives are very happy with what happened with this $1.9 trillion bill going forward on infrastructure, on other things, they're likely to be disappointed, because they are going to have to find 60 votes in the senate for a lot of these bills to go forward. and this is going to be really where the legislating happens. it's not going to be this 40-day sprint to get a massive $2 trillion bill. this is going to be months and months of legislating. so we'll have to see what happens with progressives. how do they try to push joe biden to that more progressive wing. and if they will be successful. >> victoria, anand just mentioned that the president is not listening or doesn't pay attention as much as the obama administration did to wall street, to the goldman sachs crowd and people like that affiliated with big institutions, financial institutions like that. but could it be that what we're hearing now is who joe biden actually is, separate and apart from who he's listening to? it could be just who he is? so i want to ask you, what do you hear -- what do you think when you hear president joe biden speaking? what do you hear? >> mike, i hear an old-school democrat. and you know, i'm a little biased. i am at the lbj school of public affairs, but i do think very much of lbj, a leader who was practical, who also understand the pain of economic difficulty and wanting to make those lives better. recently, we've seen a lot of comparisons to the great society, the war on poverty, lbj 2.0. and while i do see some very strong similarities, especially in the way that they lead, they're very practical, they're well-seasoned in the senate, in the ways a washington, i do want to caution folks in too close of a comparison, because what we saw in the great society and the war on poverty was an institutionalization of these policies. what we're seeing with the american rescue plan is temporary. it's a one-year fix. there are hopes that it will be made permanent, but i think it's still a little bit too soon to say that this is going to be permanent. and one other difference here, building on anand's point is, you know, traditionally, we would think of these direct cash transfers as an anathema, a stigma. that is something new. the lbj great society model is more about the institution of programs, of medicaid, of snap, where this is a different way of broadening out government, almost a compromise in getting it more directly to the people so they can do what they need to do with that money. so broad similarities, but the devil's in the detail in terms of the differences. >> jonathan, it does seem to anand's point in these early days of the administration that joe biden is making a point of showing progressives he wants to help push through some of their objectives. >> no question there. and he's gotten support from bernie sanders and some of the most -- the most left of that party. and he came into office with some questions, whether or not he would really adhere to what some of the progressives wanted. and their wish list is long and those acts will only get harder in the weeks ahead, but he's shown a willingness to go there. but the filibuster is at the center of all of this. the democrats can't go much else unless they try to wave it away, or at least not as big as they want to go. mitch mcconnell is not a fan of that idea. he's made that very, very, very, very, very, very, very clear. what do you think in terms of mcconnell's strategy here with the filibuster and the senate. what he's threatened to do if the democrats go forward with it. is this the right political play for them? >> for the republicans, absolutely. when you look at your hand and you see what you've been dealt as a minority leader in the senate, yeah, you want to lay down a couple of markers. very much as mcconnell did when harry reid was the majority leader and the administration was frustrated with not being able to get its lower court, federal court judiciary appointments through. and the democrats made the calculated play of going out and eliminating the filibuster with respect to that. and at that time, mcconnell, you will rue the day. and they did. when the merrick garland nomination came up, there was no place to go, using their tactics against them. and that's what mcconnell is signaling again. when he got on the senate floor and laid out, okay, you want to do this? let me tell you what i'm going to do when we get power back. there's a cautionary tale there. there's a little bit of beating the chest a bit, to hope you don't do it. because republicans do know, if the filibuster goes away, there's a big agenda that will get pushed through with the 51st vote of the vice president. and that's something that mcconnell at the end of the day really, really wants to avoid. you see a little bit of posturing early. a little bit of bravado, what i'm going to do if you go there. but behind that, there's still a lot of caution and concern that the progressives, to anand's point, will make a stronger play, as this unfolds. and to victoria's point, because this is not permanent, the effort to make a lot of that $2 trillion spending permanent comes right back in front of the senate and they won't have a way to stop it. >> michael steele, thanks so much for being with us this morning, my friend. good to see you. anand, on the point of making some of this permanent, something like the child tax credit, for example. a lot of people who work in the poverty space have long wanted to see this made permanent. they believe it could have a transformational effect on child poverty in this country. cut it in half, if it's made permanent. what other initiatives do you see -- with the filibuster there, how do the progressives work around that to make some of these ideas they have long held and long wanted to implement to make those permanent and transform the society in the way they want to? >> such a big question. and i think this is going to be, because of the reality of where we are, one of the most defining issues of this presidency. i personally would prefer a different approach personally prefer joe biden to fight for medicare for all. but he won and i'm not the president. i think the most hopeful possibility of what he could do given the intersection of his politics, this moment of need and the place a lot of progressives would like to go and the country needs to go is if he could create policies like the child credit that whet the appetite for bigger, more sustained versions of that. and bernie sanders had a proposal that for one year, a couple of years or a duration of the pandemic, medicare would pay all out-of-pocket expenses, co-pays, extra payments that were not covered by people's health insurance, because for this temporary -- now, bernie sanders also wants to do whole-hog medicare for all. but bernie sanders proposed this smaller version in a very intelligent way where, for a year or two, everybody would kind of get this appetite whet around this attitude that, medicaid paid for my bills, and then it might expire, but now people have experienced a preview of it. so what progressives need to think about, how do you do appetite whetting public policy, that is not an incremental deflection, that is not a kind of detour from real change, but that paves a road, that builds public support for doing bigger, broader change. >> you know what, anand, mike barnicle's appetite is whet for a nonfungible token right now. and i understand you have some exciting news about the manuscript for "winners take all." i have full command of what an nft is and of block chain, but mike wanted us to ask you to tell us more about this project. >> mike is so humble about what hep wants to learn about. you know, this nft word has been thrown around, people have probably heard it in the news. no one quite understands what it is. i'm probably among those who don't entirely. but it's essentially a way of collecting digital artifacts. so many of the things people have traditionally collected, stamps, baseball cards, campaign posters are physical, but so much of what we live with now is digital. so this is a technology that allows you to collect and trade digital artifacts. i've gotten interested in this area and tried to study and found it in this community that's developing a really interesting new way for communities to create relationships with artists that are more democratic, that bypass galleries and a lot of the gatekeepers. i should say that i think there's a real environmental problem that has been also raised with nfts, the way that block chain, the stuff is minted, creates a carbon footprint that is not acceptable right now. and a lot of people are trying to figure out how to fix that. these platforms need to fix it. i think regulatory fixes are in order. but at its heart, the nf strkst is a way of collecting digital things. so i've tried an experiment where outtakes from miss book, "winners take all" could be viewable. in the way this works, it could only be viewed one person at a time. a person could collect -- there's like five pages that were cut from the book, maybe because it's a little vicious, but still kind of good, and view it in private. >> anand, the digital artist deeple got $65 million for his work at christie's the other day. is that what you're expecting for your manuscript? >> first of all, that's an astonish number and kind of ridiculous. no. and what i'm going to do is use some of these proceeds to fund emerging writers to publish pieces on the ink news letter, which you mentioned a to the beginning and try to, if i can, to urge other writers to explore this or or potentially other ways of sharing work that wasn't meant to be published, but didn't look mean to be buried. >> anand thank you so much. let's turn now to the fight against the pandemic. nbc's miguel almaguer reports on the troubling signs in some states as new covid cases again begin to grow there. >> reporter: after covid cases dropped dramatically nationwide, in 13 states, infections are on the rise, fueling new worry the u.s. could face another surge. in michigan, cases are now up 64%. >> it's not over yet, it is no time to spike the football. with virus variants circulating in every state, dr. fauci warninging the u.s. could see a surge like europe's, but with more americans vaccinated, on capitol hill he was challenged. >> let me state for the record that masks are not theater. masks are protective and we ask -- >> if they are immunity, you're wearing a mask to give comfort to others. >> i totally disagree with you. >> reporter: as president biden gets set to mark 100 million vaccination shots after less than 60 days in office, so far, 12 states will allow anyone 16 and older to be vaccinated before may 1st. within 90 days, officials say the vaccine supply will quadruple and that should keep americans out of the hospital. >> reporter: in colorado, sergeant nate kylberg spent four weeks on a ventilator. >> this last week, he came out of it and we were just all like cheering. so it just -- i'm going to get emotional. >> reporter: progress amid a growing reminder of the risks we all face. miguel almaguer, nbc news. >> and joining us now, director of the senate for infectious disease research and policy, a professor in the medical school at the university of medicine, dr. michael osterholm. dr. osterholm, always great to have you on the show. >> thank you, willie. >> how do we balance these competing set of news here? on the one hand, we hear great news about the pace of the vaccine, opening up of restaurants and indoor spaces, summer on the horizon, people very optimistic and now we see popping up some spikes in cases. so where are we broadly speaking? >> we have the tale of two cities right now. we are doing as well as any country in the world in terms of getting vaccine out, but don't forget, at 2.7 million doses a day, you have to cut that in half, because these are two-dose regiments. only about 1.3 million a day are being vaccinated nationwide. even for the next 90 days, that's going to be a limited number as to where we'll see the vaccine supplies really increase. in the meantime, we have this variant virus that is 50 to 60% more infectious, 50 to 60% more capable of presenting with very severe disease. and that's what we're up against right now. put that totally on the backdrop of a country that is opening up everything, as if somehow the pandemic doesn't exist. right now in paris, every four minutes, a new person is being hospitalized in the intensive care unit with covid. europe a harbinger of things to come, i'm afraid, and these next five to six weeks could be really very tough. >> doctor, the two-dose vaccines, moderna and pfizer, they come with some obvious questions for people who have gotten the vaccine. one is, now that i have the vaccine, i can't get the virus. and is, there's an element of false freedom, with i think, with many people who get the vaccine, who think they don't have to go back to behavioral aspects encountered during the past year or so. what are the odds that someone who has gotten the two-dose vaccine can no longer get, you know, a variant of the virus? >> mike, you really ask a very important question, and one i think the public is very confused and many of my colleagues are very confused about. these mutated viruses really fall into three different buckets. one that causes more severe illness, one that causes the virus to be transmitted more, and one that causes the virus to evade the immune protection from the vaccine or from natural infection. the b-117, the one that originated in the uk fits into that first two buckets, fortunately. as bad as that is, it's not evaded the immune protection of the vaccines. our current vaccines are going to protect well against the b-117. the other variants of concern, though, the one that originated in brazil, p-1, or the one that we talk about from south africa, that's a different story. there, there's surely reduction in how well the vaccines work. it doesn't mean you don't get protection against severe disease and hospitalization and death, but in fact, they're still minimized with these new viruses. we have to deal with b-117. this highly infectious virus. even though we have more people vaccinated, we have 50 to 60% of the u.s. population that have not previously had infection nor have they had vaccine. that's where we worry the b-117 could very much take off and very much cause damage, as we think about what's happening in europe right here in the united states. >> jonathan lamir has a question for you, doctor. >> sure. >> dr. good morning. two actually quick related questions. there's obviously a huge segment of the population, as you say, that has not been vaccinated yet. but a number of them say they won't be vaccinated at all. they're reluctant to do so, hesitant to do so. that's really challenging the administration right now. if that population persists out there, not being vaccinated as these variants arrive through the summer, through the fall, keeping the virus alive here in the united states, how dangerous is that? and related, will that also mean the necessity for boosters, for those who already have vaccines, a booster shot to either deal with a new version of the variant of the virus or the fact that it will just mutate over time if it persists through the summer, fall, into next year. >> well, jonathan, again, very important questions that we have to answer. the first one with regard to the issue of who gets vaccinated and when. you're right, if we only see 60 to 70% of the public get vaccinated over the course of the next month, we'll have an ongoing problem with this virus here in this country. so we have to do everything we can to help the vaccine-hesitant people to understand why these vaccines are so important and how they could save your life. that's going to be a real critical mission for us to continue to do that. now, we know there'll be some that will just never take the vaccine. we hope we can limit that number. but to your second point, one of the things that i am very concerned about and just wrote an article last week in foreign affairs on is what we call vaccine nationalism. and you saw the administration yesterday indicating they're going to basically provide 1 million to 2 million doses of vaccine down to mexico. but don't forget the only operation in place right now to get vaccine to the low and middle-income countries is an organization called kovacs, which was put together by the world health organization, several countries, and philanthropic organizations. and their goal is to vaccinated 20% of low and middle-income individuals in the year ahead. that originally started out as a humanitarian aid, but now we see it as critical aid from the standpoint of saving our own vaccines. these new variants are spinning out of these infections and if we have billions of people in the low and middle-income countries with no protection over the course of the next year, more and more of these variants that could threaten how well our vaccines work are going to come spinning out. we have a critical, critical need right now to find ways to vaccinate the entire world, not just the high-income countries. >> dr. osterholm, as you know well, i'm sure you're asked about it every day, parental outrage is boiling over with the fact what's going on with schools, and so many kids are not in school at all or remote or in there part of the time on staggered schedules. some kids have lost touch with their schools, some don't have wi-fi or ipads. we know the damage that is doing, the toll that will take on their lives. should schools be open. there's been some talk that the cdc may come out as soon as today and announce that the distance actually only needs to be 3 feet between people and not 6 feet. that would have an impact on schools. where are you on our schools right now? >> first of all, let me start off as a grandfather of five school-aged children. i obviously understand more than you can know hold up important it is to have kids in school. i have supported school openings, particularly for those under eighth grade and younger, because the epidemiology or the pattern of disease that we see in grade school suggests that kids transmit the virus very little. they themselves get infected less than we see in the general population and teachers were not really at increased risk. and then the variants came. b-117 was picked up, because even when in total lockdown, when schools were in session, the virus spread very rapidly and kids were the number one source of spread. we're now confronted with this new fact that this particular variant does infect kids. in fact, we have a large outbreak going on right now here in minnesota, largely based in school-aged children which then spills over into the parents and grandparents. i think we're in a new ball game. i think it would be a major mistake if cdc changes their distancing right now for school recommendations. it would be based on a single study which had many, many challenges and problems with that study. if you know anything about viruses, the idea that you can prevent a virus like this from being transmitted at 3 feet, i can probably move the grand canyon to fargo easier than to convince many of us in this area that that's actually real. >> dr. mike osterholm, we'll be hearing much in the next days and weeks. let's turn now to nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker. we've been talking about the challenges for this white house in russia and china on full display with the back and forth between president biden and a couple of days ago and president putin yesterday, where president biden said, yes, he believes putin is a killer and he has no soul. and on the other hand, at that summit in anchorage, representatives from the state department and representatives from the chinese government going at it in full public view for more than an hour. >> hi, willie, good to see you. that's right. these are two key foreign policy tests for president biden. let's start with china and in anchorage, the secretary of state was there are meeting with top chinese officials and something happened that we rarely see, willie. basically, we saw tensions between the two countries break out into public view. the white house had very stern words for china over its human rights abuses, under its undemocratic practices. and china fired back in a remarkable way, criticizing the united states, including for some of the things that are happening here on our soil. the black lives matter protests, for example. and it didn't get much better from there. there were disputes over how long the reporters should be in the room. at one point, they were sent out. at another point, they were called back in. and it really underscores the fact that the administration is struggling with how to deal with china. of course, this is a country with which it has a number of tensions. but also relies on and needs to deal with critical issues like trade and north korea. similar things hang with russia, as well. this push and pull where the administration is struggling with, in some ways, trying to reset relations in the wake of trump administration. and as you point out, this latest war of words was started when he was asked if he believes that president putin is a killer. and he said, yes, i do. he also vowed there are going to be retaliation, likely in the form of sanctions, amidst an intelligence report, that found that russia yet again meddled in the 2020 election. putin fired back at president biden, saying in the russian form it, takes one to know one, and then seemed to mock him by saying, i wish him good health. and it's really just escalated from there. yesterday, my colleague, peter alexander was in the briefing room and pressed the white house on this, essentially asking, does president biden regret that tough talk? jen psaki, the press secretary here saying, no, he does not. the question becomes, what happens next? again, biden vowing there are going to be sanctions that he will announce in the coming days, but the question becomes, does this tough talk backfire, willie, as the administration grapples with needing to work with russia on some critical treaties, as well. >> public diplomatic transitions thrown out the window in anchorage yesterday. fascinating to watch. nbc's kristen welker at the white house for us. kristen, thank you so much. the fbi yesterday released ten videos of what it describes as the, quote, most egregious attacks on law enforcement officers during the january 6th capitol attack. agents still seeking the help of the public in identifying some of the assailants. let's bring in the assailants. let's bring in the host of "way too early," kasie hunt. >> for months, the fbi has been combing through thousands of tips, images and videos and there have already been 300 people arrested. but now, as you pointed out, they're putting the spotlight on this group of ten men and it's because they say they're the ones who committed the most violent attacks against police officers. these attacks were captured on camera and i want to warn everyone, the video you're about to see is disturbing. swinging bats, throwing punches, poles, and even crutches. in one case, even using what appears to be an electric prod. the fbi releasing edited and enhanced videos to put the spotlight on a group of men who they say committed some of the most brutal attacks against law enforcement during january's insurrection at the capitol. police officers overpowered by a violent mob of trump supporters who forced their way into the halls of congress, as lawmakers worked to certify the results of the 2020 election. the bureau revealing clear images of ten people they hope to identify. one of those clips shows a man appearing to bash an officer in the head with a bat. another man spraying a group of officers with what looks to be a fire extinguisher. an officer's body camera showing the direct threat they faced. one of them repeatedly taking punches to the head. the attackers at times using officers' own gear against them. >> we absolutely, you know, fought tooth and nail to keep the capitol safe. d.c. police officer daniel hodges told nbc news in january he feared for his own life. video from the day showing him pinned in a doorway, as he tried to keep people from entering. >> they were waving the thin blue line flag while telling us that we're traitors. >> new fbi video appears to show the moments just before, with one of the attackers repeatedly trying to rip off officer hodge's mask. one capitol police officer, brian sicknick, died a day after the insurrection. two others, who worked to protect lawmakers and capitol hill staffers later died by suicide. after january 6th, national guard troops and razor wire fencing surrounding the capitol complex, as u.s. intelligence agencies warn of an ongoing threat. >> domestic violence extremism is one of our most urgent threats to the homeland. >> reporter: former president bush discussing the insurrection thursday during the annual south-by-southwest conference. >> i'm still disturbed when i think about it. it undermines rule of law. and you know, the ability to express yourself in peaceful ways in the public square. this was an expression that was not peaceful. >> the videos from that day, willie, are just so incredibly difficult to watch and we should point out, there are two men facing charges for assaulting officer sicknick, who died. they have not been charged in his death at this point. there was also legislation that was passed earlier this week to honor both capitol police and d.c. police who were there that day. it passed overwhelmingly, but there were a dozen republicans who voted against it, because it used the word "insurrection." >> as we've said before, the more you see and hear about this day, the worse it gets. kasie, stay with us. i want to bring in eugene robinson of "the washington post" into the conversation. gene, you cannot help but think as you watch those images that kasie just brought to us of officers being beaten, of this clip from last week of senator ron johnson. >> i knew even though thousands of people that are marching the people were trying to pressure me to vote they wanted me to vote, i knew those were people that love this country, that truly respect law enforcement and never would do anything to break a law, so i was never concerned. had the tables been turned, this could mean trouble. had the tables been turned and president trump won the election and those were tens of thousands of black lives matter and antifa protesters, i might have been a little concerned. >> gene, as we watch these new images from the fbi, ron johnson says, quote, i knew those were people that love this country, that truly respect law enforcement. >> and would never break the law. and obviously, that's diametrically opposed to what we see in this stunning and frankly disgusting new video from the day. this is outrageous, what happened, on january 6th. and i am still floored that 12 republicans voted against the resolution to honor the 12 police officers who risked their lives, who put their lives on the line to defend the capitol. to defend those 12 republicans and all the other members of congress, as they were trying to perform their constitutional duty of certifying the results of the election. it's just -- there are no words for what senator ron johnson said and i just have to wish the investigators success and progress in finding out who these people are and bringing them to justice. this was something that we've never seen before in u.s. history. we've just never seen an insurrection like this. and it has to be -- it has to be dealt with. >> yeah, ana palmer, kasie mentioned it, that bipartisan legislation passed on wednesday, 413-12, that would create three congressional gold medals, one for the capitol police, one nor the metro police in d.c., and one for the smithsonian to acknowledge their efforts that day of law enforcement. 12 republicans voted against it, because they thought the word "insurrection" was too mean to the insurrectionists, i guess. >> it was pretty shocking, frankly. and something that i don't think is probably going to age very well when you look back on history for those republicans. i think the real question goes to the future, which is, what is going to happen with this bipartisan commission that the speaker has proposed. it's stalled now, with negotiations of republicans not agreeing to what she wants. but there's a lot of information we don't know yet. the capitol police is very opaque. we don't have a real sense of what is going to happen. and recently, a police officer was put on leave because he had anti-semitic materials that were out in public view. there's just a lot of distrust and i don't think you can underscore what that looks like on the hill between democrats and the police force that is supposed to be protecting them. >> ana palmer of the must-read punch bowl news. ana, great to see you this morning. thanks so much. still ahead on "morning joe," member of the biden cabinet, energy secretary jennifer granholm will be our guest. plus, the tournament begins in earnest today. do you have your bracket filled out? the great jay billis of espn joins us shortly to help with that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. managing type 2 diabetes? you're on it. staying active and eating right? yup, on it there, too. you may think you're 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need. thank you! hey, hey, no, no limu, no limu! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 7:36 in the morning. joining us now, u.s. secretary of energy, jennifer granholm. i want to talk about some of the details of the $1.9 trillion bill that just passed through the congress and how it applies to your department, but first, i just want to ask you broadly about the job that you've now stepped into and where things are headed. obviously, as the former governor of michigan, you have a good eye on the automobile industry and where that's headed, toward electric cars, towards clean energy. where do you see the future of this economy? i think a lot of people have viewed clean energy as almost a zero sum game. that the jobs are going to go somewhere else. but people like you and tim ryan across the midwest have said, there are new jobs we have to retrain for so we keep them here in the united states. >> it's so great you asked me this question. because it is totally not a zero sum game. it is a grow the economic pie situation. so, for example, i mean, not just in electric vehicles, we know we can create jobs there, not just in the gut to the electric vehicle, which is the battery. you know you can create jobs there, but you can also create an enormous number of jobs in reducing carbon emissions, even in fossil fuel industries. whether it's natural gas or coal, the ble, the department of energy these 17 national laboratories with brilliant minds researching the solutions to bring down carbon emissions. and these solutions are going to require jobs like pipe fitters and sheet metal workers. honestly, when people hear about clean energy, they should think, wow, what an opportunity. there was a study out in january that said that this is a $23 trillion global opportunity in the next ten years. in other words, the private sector will be investing $23 trillion globally for the products that reduce co2 emissions. well, good! so where are those jobs going to go? where are those investments going to be made? they're going to be made in the countries that have policies that have ripe to take advantage of those jobs. that's why it's so exciting to be part of the biden administration, because he gets that clean energy means jobs. and that means opportunity for all kinds of people in all pockets of the country. >> so, madame secretary, you're secretary of the energy department. congratulations. >> thank you. >> there's gena mccarthy in the white house, there's secretary -- former secretary of state kerry, globally, on the environment. you're all talking about the same things. items that you were just mentioning, lower carbon emissions, getting to certain percentages by 2030, whatever. so which lane are you going to skate without bumping into your two wing mates there and others, in other departments? >> it's a great question, because this is really a whole of government approach. we have a climate cabinet, which includes the guy who is the newly appointed michael regan, the head of the epa. it means the head of the council on environmental quality, it means the department of commerce, it means the department of transportation. there are solutions in every one of these places and everybody does have a lane. historically, the department of energy's lane has been in finding solutions, because we have these 17 national labs and we are all about investments in science and technology and engineering. so, that has historically been and that will continue to be a focus of ours. but in addition to that, we want to be the place for deployment. so for example, we have a $40 billion loan guarantee program called the loan programs office and that place is a place where entrepreneurs and businesspeople who have great ideas can come and get a loan to be able to take their clean energy solution into the market. so we are -- i am completely obsessed with creating jobs in america and a global economy. we all all see this sector as a huge improvement. so i'll focus on deploying technologies that can help solve the problem of climate change and putting clean energy on the transmission grid, which is hugely important if we get to those goals.goals. >> madame secretary, it's becoming very clear that whatever the next, whether you call it infrastructure bill, however you want to make it, it's going to only pass with democratic votes and it's really going to become the only shot you have to do something major on climate. so what are the top two things that you want to see in that legislation? >> honestly, kasie, just for a second on this, infrastructure, whether it's roads or bridges or whether it's transmission infrastructure, those things really are bipartisan. at least the way people have talked about them. we've all been talking about infrastructure -- >> in theory. >> for years, right? the thing that's the difficult part is how to pay for it. and so, if we can convince -- i mean, there will be an effort to go at this in a bipartisan way. but you're right, if there is no -- if there are no votes on the republican side, i hope, because of this moment, because of the opportunity that this presents for our people to create careers in changing the course of the planet and of course of the climate and of the u.s. economy, i hope that democrats are able to move this through. it's really important for roads, bridges, et cetera, but for me, i'm really interested in this -- >> if you have to pick one thing, what do you want to see congress too 'do on this in that bill, if they are only doing -- >> for me, for me, because i head the department of energy, i want investments in the transmission grid. i want to make sure it's got the capacity we need to be able to put hundreds of gigawatts of clean energy on the grid. i want to make sure it's you are secure from cyber attacks and resilient to all of these climate change events that we have been seeing over the past few years. >> secretary granholm, jonathan lamir with the associated press is here with a question for you. john? >> madame secretary, good morning. the president has begun his road show this week to tout the covid relief package and showing americans what is really in it. he was in pennsylvania earlier this week. can you walk us through what it means for americans, in terms of how it relates to your job and your department, what should americans know and how will they be benefiting from this legislation that was just passed? >> actually, can i give you the most important thing to me? even though it may be slightly outside of my department, and i say this, jonathan, because i have been a big sister for a young woman for 23 years and she is a single mom in rural georgia and she works full-time at the sheriff's office and she takes in about a thousand dollars a month. she nets about a thousand dollars a month, with two kids. i'm telling you, what this will do for her. i mean, when you think about it, she has to pay $350 in rent. she's got to pay her utility bill and child care. and her child care bill alone is $500 a month. and that may sound cheap to a lot of folks who may be listening in new york, but for her, pulling in 1,000 a month, her money is gone before she even opens the envelope of her check. so the point in this legislation that will give $250 a month for her child that is 7 years old and $300 a month for her child that is 2 years old, oh, my god. it is a game changer, for her and for 63 million kids across the country. we often just don't see people who are in poverty. there are so many. but this -- the fact that they have monetized every month the child care tax credit increase, oh, my god, to me, that is a game changer, whether it's in the department of energy or anywhere else. >> all right. energy secretary jennifer granholm, thanks for your time this morning. we appreciate it. coming up next on "morning joe," the field of 64 teams competing in the ncaa men's basketball tournament is now set with the games just hours away. the great jay billis of espn joins us next to break down the path to the final four and help you fill out that last-minute bracket. we're back in two minutes. last- bracket. wee 'rback in two minutes. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ comfort in the extreme. ♪♪ the lincoln family of luxury suvs. four, five, turn, kick. we got chased by these wild coyotes! they were following her because she had beef jerky in her pocket. (laughing) (trumpet playing) someone behind me, come on. pick that up, pick that up, right there, right there. as long as you keep making the internet an amazing place to be, we'll keep bringing you a faster, more secure, and more amazing internet. xfinity. the future of awesome. well, he missed it. gave witchta state a chance, the final shot. they're down one and this is for the win! off the front iron! oh, my goodness, the drake bulldogs survive! >> yes, the men's ncaa basketball tournament now officially underway. that's drake university, earning its first tournament victory in exactly 50 years, surviving a would-be buzzer beater from witchta state. in the other matchup, michigan state coach tom izzo and one of his players carried a shouting match into halftime and the spartans would go on to blow a double-digit lead in the second half, falling in overtime to ucla, 86-80. texas southern opened the tournament with a win over mt. st. mary's and norfolk state advancing to face gonzaga on saturday after edging appalachian state last night. the round of 64 tipping off today just after noon, featuring all 32 teams from the south and midwest regions. and joining us now, espn college basketball analyst, jay billis. jay, it is so great to see you. thank you so much for checking in with us today. big day, a lot of people sitting with their blank brackets, they're going to be leaning in to listen intently to what you have to say this morning. let's start with gonzaga. the number one overall seed. they've been close, but never won it all. they're a really good team. they've got, i think, three all-americans. they're undefeated. but people always go and say, but, yeah, they play in that conference where they're not really tested all year? how good is this gonzaga team? >> they're as good as they've ever been, willie. and i think they have a great opportunity to win this thing and be the first undefeated champion since indiana in 1976. and not only do they have three all-americans, which is highly unusual, but player, joelle acan i ae from france had the first triple-double in school history. that's their fourth best player. and the two, three and four seeds in the west region, iowa, kansas and virginia gonzaga has already played them and beat the hell out of them. so gonzaga can be beaten. every team in this tournament can be beaten with a poor outing. but they're the best team. and i think they have the best opportunity to win. >> they are really good. i think you're right. they're a little better than they've ever been, even. so i will tell put out there that i am a homer for illinois. my pirnts went to illinois. they met at the university of illinois. my dad is from champagne. but how good is this illinois team? they've been on an incredible run over the last month and a half. they won the big ten tournament title. do they have a good shot to win it all? >> yeah. they're legitimate. their best player is named io desomo. recently he had his nose broken and he had a mask made that makes him look like batman. his teammate is 7 foot tall and he weighs easily 275 pounds. so they have batman and the incredible hulk in the same starting lineup, which i think is horribly unfair. it does mix marvel and d.c., but they're in the final four. you can't lose with two superheroes on your team. >> it is an impressive crossover event every time they step out on the court. a lot of people will be looking for upsets. another popular one is colgate over arkansas. will they beat arkansas and make a little run? >> it's a fair choice to say colgate. now, colgate only played three teams this year. they just played them over and over again. it's really a bizarre thing because of covid. and so their numbers put them up in the top 20 of the net ranking of the ncaa's evaluation tool. it replaced the rpi. colgate is very good. they can score. they play quick tempo and they can really shoot it. so they move the ball and they can really spread the defense. but i think arkansas is better. arkansas has a player named moses moody who can really score. he's the real deal. so i think arkansas will win that game. colgate has had a great year and they're fully capable of winning. but arkansas would have to help them. >> mike barnacle. >> because of my lifelong loyalty to the jesuits, i have picked gonzaga. but address the larger romance of the tournament this year. they're playing in high school gyms throughout indiana and all i can think of is the image of larry bird down in indiana shooting baskets. what color do you think this gives to the tournament that it hasn't had before? >> that's a good question, mike. i'm not sure how much it does add because the look of the tournament on television is going to be largely the same, except for the crowds. because of covid, all 68 teams were in one location. they were basically in lockdown. they haven't been able to really leave their rooms or their hotels. they're basically like -- and i don't mean this to cast aspersion on anybody, but -- car and they do take them to a local park where they can run around together, but that's about it. and they're there to play basketball and to get this tournament in for their media rights partners and that's great. i think it's a wonderful thing. the one thing i'll be most interested in about the venues and the setting is a lot of times the underdog can catch a wave of the crowd and ride it into shore to a win. and sometimes the higher seeded team will make it a little tight. without crowds there -- there's very sparse crowds. they may be loud, but they're not what we're used to. will that mitigate toward the higher seeded teams, kind of getting away with some wins that maybe in years past this would have been an upset victim? >> gene, as you probably know, they were a popular pick to be upset. everybody has to knock out a one seed. a lot of people like alabama down there. how do you like michigan this year? let you take the "j." >> well, i certainly like michigan this year. and i am a little worried about alabama. this is robinson/scarborough showdown that we anticipate might happen. my question so jay is, number one, how do you see the wolverines doing in this tournament and, number two, what about the big ten overall? to me, this was the power conference this year. you've got a lot of good big ten teams in the tournament that could do well, including illinois, ohio state and, of course, the wolverines. >> yeah, gene, the big ten was brutal this year. it was the best league and i think the best league by far. it was a league in which you could play well and i wouldn't lose which is not always the case for top teams. as for michigan, i thought michigan was right with gonzaga and baylor from the middle of the season on on the top tier of the game. and the best teams. and now with isaiah livers out with that stress reaction in his foot, i don't know exactly if and when he'll be back. without him, they're still very good. they were a shot away from beating ohio state in the big ten tournament. so they can hang with anybody and they can beat just about anybody without livers. but with him, they're an elite team, an elite offense and they're a great basketball team. i tend to think that without your best player, it's going diminish your chance in this tournament to get to a final four and win a national championship. in that bracket, i picked alabama. part of it is i didn't want to have all four number one seeds advancing. the other part of it is i am defendantly afraid of nick saban. >> as you rightly should be. jonathan lamere, it looks like columbia didn't make the tournament, my friend. >> yeah, we missed out there year, willie. my 9-year-old and i picked illinois to win the whole thing in our bracket. jay, my brother would like to note he's a university of virginia graduate. since there wasn't a tournament last year, they're still the defending champions. how do you think uva could do this year? and you just teased it, but what is your final four? who do you think emerges as the champion this time around? >> i can relate to columbia's feeling right now because duke didn't make the tournament, either. so it's been a rough year. >> they get compared a lot, yeah. >> yeah. gpa didn't work out for columbia. but virginia has been going through the covid issue. they had to drop out of the acc tournament. they've been quarantining for a while in charlottesville. they won't get to indianapolis until today to play tomorrow. i think they have a very difficult road, one, because gonzaga is in their bracket, but also they're playing against ohio. and ohio is really good. they've got a player named jason preston who is the lamello ball of this tournament. ohio played at illinois in early season and they lost by a bucket. the superhero put on the cape to beat them, but preston had 31 points, 8 assists and zero turnovers in that game. he's a triplel-double guy. so i think ohio even at further strength could beat the cavaliers, but i'm picking that as the upset and i think that's a good upset to pick because even if it doesn't come through, gonzaga is going to beat whoever comes there in the first place. as for my final four, i mentioned i have alabama, i have gonzaga, baylor and illinois and then i have gonzaga and illinois in the title game and i'm going to go with gonzaga to be the first undefeated champion since indiana. the head coach will then go fishing. >> mike barnacle just pumped his fist with your pick. that's my exact final. because i am a homer, i have illinois winning it all. jay, there is nobody better to talk hoops with especially on a day like this as the tournament gets going. great to see you, my friend. >> great to see you. thank you. still ahead, we will set the stage for the president's and vice president's visit to atlanta today to support the asian american community in the wake of tuesday's deadly shootings across georgia. plus, a look at how republicans handled themselves during yesterday's congressional hearing into anti-asian violence. "morning joe" is back in just one minute. "morni jngoe" is back in just one minute joe biden quotes his mother more than any president, even vice president pence didn't talk about his mother as much as joe does. >> welcome. as my mom would say, god love y'all. we've got a lot of work to do. >> my mother would say god bless you, son. no purgatory for you. and my mother used to say hush up, joey. and as my mother would say, hope you keep my in my prayers, too. as my mom would say, be able to walk a mile in your shoes if you want to know me. as my mother would say, god love y'all. if you talk like that, my mother would say you get your mouth washed out with soap. remember as we dilly dallied as my mother used to say. as my mother said, enough is enough is enough. >> his mother said a lot of things. >> god love you, indeed. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, march 19th. with us we have mike barnacle, jonathan lamere. joe and mika have the morning off. it is a busy morning. as was just mentioned, mets/yankees, 20% capacity, a few thousand fans in there. at least it's a start. i know how excited you are about the yankees hot start and seeing the great yankee fans populating that park in the bronx. >> as my mother would say -- i can't say that on the air. >> yeah, you better not. >> we're going to have 12% capacity at fenway park. >> lamere, are you excited for the yanks? they're looking good until the spring. >> well, the question is as yankee stadium fills up to only 10%, 15%, 20% capacity, that's obviously going to leave a lot of empty seats down low behind home plate. so my question for you is how will that be different than any other season? >> that's true. >> that was a nice wind up to one that really hits. >> that's true, though. the seats are so expensive down there behind home plate. >> yeah. i want to hear from you about the good seats, mike. let's get to the news today. president joe biden is expected to deliver on his administration's promise of 100 million covid shots in his first 100 days in office. >> i'm proud to announce that tomorrow 58 days into our administration, we will have met my goal of administering 100 million shots to our fellow americans. that is weeks ahead of schedule. and even with the setbacks we faced during the winter storms, i've always said, that's just the floor. we will not stop until we beat this pandemic. next week, i will announce our next goal to put shots in arms. this is a time for optimism. but it's not a time for relaxation. i need all of you to do your part. >> meanwhile, president biden and vice president harris will travel to georgia today in the wake of the spa shootings that killed eight people, including six women of asian dissent. the visit was initially scheduled as part of the tour to promote the covid relief package. jonathan lamere, the president and vice president, this was long on the books to go down and push covid relief package, but they canceled that part of the trip and made the focus the terrible attack on tuesday at those spas. >> that's right, willy. i will be traveling with the president and this trip has taken on a new light in the wake of the terrible spa shootings earlier this week. georgia, as we know, arguably the most important political state on the map. it went to joe biden in november. he was the first democrat there since 1992. and, of course, it was those pair of senate runoffs in early january. democrats captured both of those which put the senate to their control, a 50/50 tie with vice president harris casting the tiebreaking vote. it's, in fact, georgia that allowed joe biden's administration to pass this $1.9 trillion covid relief bill. so they wanted to make an early stop there on their tour to tout what's in this piece of legislation. you're still going to see a little bit of politics as we reported last night. president biden is going to meet with stacey abrams who is widely credited for spearheading voter registration drives there in georgia. may have tipped the scale for us democrats. but the focus is going to be entirely different. the president will make a stop at the cdc about the latest on the pandemic response. he will meet the asian community leaders, both state legislators, local lawmakers and community officials to talk about what happened this week and also how it comes at a time with a real rise in violence, hate crimes and bias incidents, a lot of asian americans really on edge as to what happens. and the president -- the white house has said the president will listen to them, share their concerns and make sure he knows the federal government is behind him and look for him to tout executive orders he's signed to reduce hate crimes. >> asian american lawmakers and academic experts testified yesterday about the recent spike in targeted hate crimes across the united states. the hearing, which had been scheduled weeks before the mass shooting in georgia, focused on the increased anti-asian rhetoric during the coronavirus pandemic. >> last year, when i heard the highest levels of government, those people use racist slurs like china virus to spread xenophobia and cast blame on innocent communities opinion it was all too familiar. comments like these only build upon the legacy of racism, anti-asian sentiment and insensitivity that seek to deny our nation. >> blaming the aapi community for a public health crisis is racist and wrong. >> asian americans must not be used as scapegoat necessary times of crisis. >> i'm asking you to please stop using racist terms like kung-flu or other ethnic identifiers to describe this virus. i am not a virus. >> i was disheartened to find that for a bill that required no money or resources, the simple condemnation of acts of hate against people of asian dissent. 164 members of congress, all republican, voted against it. if this were a synagogue or a black church and someone shot up those places, would we really be asking whether this is a hate crime or not? >> free speech is not a defense. we have no free speech right to yell fire in a crowded theater. what is happening right now is asian americans are in a crowded thoughter where we are being endangered. >> if america were such a hate-filled, discriminatory racist society filled with animus against asian americans, how do you explain the remarkable success of asian americans in our country? it deeply saddens me that this hearing seek toes device us as americans. >> california republicans speaking there. let's bring in joleen kent covering that hearing yesterday. this was on the books for some time. this was a problem that's been a long time coming and finally getting a hearing to discuss it, but also brought to a head, they have not established a motive in georgia by the events down there. what was your take away from the hearing and what are next steps? what's the progress that could come out of this? >> hey, willie, good morning. when you think about it, there's not been an anti-asian discrimination hearing in 34 years. so as much as it was weeks in the making, it was decades in the making. and it got really personal very quickly for these lawmakers and for those activists and experts and daniel day camm, the actor and producing sharing their own personal stories about why they were speaking out. but what was interesting that kept coming up was this deep sense of partisan divide. and you had a moment where chip roy from texas was criticizing the existence of the hearing. i'll let you hear what he had to say and i'll warn you that it is controversial and then you'll hear grace ming's response. >> we believe in justice. there's old sayings in texas about find all the rope in texas and get a tall oak tree. you know, we take justice very seriously and we ought to do that, round up the bad guys. my concern about this hearing is that it seems to want to venture into the policing of rhetoric in a free society. so now we're talking about whether talking about china, the chinese communist party, whatever phrasing we want to use and if some are saying, hey, we think those guys are the bad guys. >> i want to go back to something mr. roy said earlier. your president and your party and your colleagues can talk about issues with any other country that you want. but you don't have to do it by putting a bull's eye on the back of asian americans across this country on our grandparents, on our kids. this hearing was to address the hurt and pain of our community, to look at solutions and we will not let you take our voice away from us. >> congressman grace ming's emotional response there, willie, very much reflects what much of the asian community feels, that the coopting of ethnic identity of americanness, of otherzation that continues to be pervasive, regardless of what the motive may or may not have been in atlanta. so we checked in with congressman roy to see if he really did mean that and we got this statement back from his office saying in part, apparently some folks are freaking out that i used an old expression about finding all the rope in texas and a tall oak tree about carrying out justice against bad guys. the congressman goes on to say, i meant it. we need more justice and less thought policing. no apologies. of course, if you look at the data of why this rhetoric is so dangerous, willie, it is clear. a majority of asian american women are reporting hate incidents ranging from verbal assault to shunning to physical assault on the streets. there's been no shortage of videos showing us what's with been happening over the last year. and so a lot of lawmakers pushing back forcefully at congressman roy saying, words matter and there kind of stuff is not productive. so a lot of criticism within this as congress tries to figure out the next step forward, which could include a couple of pieces of legislation, the new hate act currently being considered, and a piece of legislation from congresswoman ming and horono about beefing up the wait hate crimes are reported, willie. >> thank you very much. still ahead this morning, the biden administration sending millions of vaccine dose toes mexico. how that may tie into the situation at the border next on "morning joe." ation at the bord "morning joe." 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>> yeah, willie, of course, right now, the united states is very happy they have ramped up their vaccine supply. and the president has said that by the end of may, every adult american who wants one should be able to get one thanks to pfizer, moderna and johnson & johnson. but there is this contract the u.s. had purchased vaccines from astrazeneca which does not have approval here in the u.s., but is being used other places. it's had some hiccups in the rollout in europe. we've seen some countries stop and start when they use it, but it has been authorized. there's been growing pressure on the u.s. to give away, to hahn out these other -- these doses that they've already gotten and means of vaccine diplomacy. so we've heard the denials from u.s. officials about the sudden reversal now that they're allowing the -- from mexico. what do you think about the timing that has come just as week seeing a real surge? >> jonathan, i have to admit, it is a bit of a coincidence. and especially because the relationship between president biden and president munuele was he was one of the second to last to call joe biden and congratulate him for winning the presidency. he held out, even though there was at first a tumultuous relationship, and former president trump, they eventually found their own groove. both family roomily entrenched in popular movements. so there wasn't an automatic opening to the biden administration. we do know that in january during that call, the president from mexico did make a request for vaccines. at that point, the biden administration said, no, we're focused on the u.s. but now, even -- excuse me, even in march when there was a meeting, early march, there was still a pushback. but now it seems as the u.s. is getting increasingly vaccinated, the timing is right. at the same time that we see the border influx. so i think it is a favorable questions dense for the biden team. >> jonathan did mention the astrazeneca covid vaccine now has been deemed safe for use in the european union after more than a dozen countries halted its rollout following several reports that it caused blood clots. keir simmons, good morning. it looks like this had been cleared largely according to w.h.o. and most scientists regarding those blood clots. >> yeah. no connection including to the group that joe seas these things for europe and the ema. so they now are rolling out the astrazeneca vaccine again in germany and france, in european countries. but it's a mess, honestly, willie, because the europeans do have supply side issues with the astrazeneca vaccine. they have some legal issues. ultimately, they have a political challenge and they seem to allow the politics lead the way rather than the science. a while back, the europeans questioned astrazeneca's vaccine. they said no, we were wrong about that, if you like. now they have this question mark over whether it causes blood clots. that isn't science to science. again, they've had to reverse it and it's a really difficult picture here in europe because there's already a good deal of vaccine hesitancy on the continent. so just, for example, 36% of europeans, only 36% say they are fully confident in the safety of vaccinations. the french, for example, 40% say they would want a vaccination. and what the politicians in europe are effectively doing, if you like increasing that concern just at the stage where they're behind on vaccinations, where they're talking about a third wave of the coronavirus. we want to turn to another story unfolding on the world stage. the back and forth between president biden and president putin. that's next on "morning joe." putin. that's next on "morning joe. plant-based surfactants like the ones in seventh generation detergent trap stains at the molecular level and flush them away. it's just science! just... science. seventh generation tackles stains. at jackson hewitt, we offer safe and easy ways to file with a skilled tax pro. securely drop off your documents, have them picked up, or upload them, and work with a tax pro online from home. safe and easy ways to file that work around you. if your dry eye symptoms keep coming back, inflammation in your eye pro might be to blame.m home. looks like a great day for achy, burning eyes over-the-counter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. ha! these drops probably won't touch me. xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. what is that? 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>> no. the president had a conversation already with president putin even as if there are more world leaders. and we engage with russian leaders, members of the government at all levels. but i don't have anything to report to you in terms of a future meeting. >> so, keir, president biden taking great pain to show that his posture toward russia and vladimir putin is going to be much different than his predecessor's. >> we've had congressional policies, speeches, but now we're seeing things mapped out. i would say it's important to note that while recording their ambassador, the russians continue to talk about trying to improve relations with the u.s. i think at the same time, we're really facing a little bit of reality here. there's been a hybrid war in cyber that has been going now for years between the u.s. and russia and actually, frankly, between the u.s. and other countries including china. and now i think we're hearing some real -- seeing some real politic in public, if you like. i will say this. i think it's interesting to note that what president putin said, criticizing america for racism, echos what the chinese said to the secretary of state yesterday in that extraordinary exchange with anthony blinken. the chinese, too, criticizing america for racism, effectively talking about black lives matter. so there you see a similarity in the approaches of china and russia. i think while it's not to say how the approach can take, however, i think it's worth pointing out that this alliance between china and russia is challenging and worrying for the u.s. >> you're absolutely right and it was on full display yesterday. you mentioned that first face-to-face meeting between the biden administration and chinese representatives. things not off to a good start, to say the least. andrea mitchell reports the two sides were tense before the meeting began. a photo-op that was scheduled to last less than five minutes ended up taking well over an hour after both sides went over on opening statements and rebuttals. the united states delegation came to anchorage committed to laying out the principles. they originally were scheduled to meet again today, but it is unclear if that will happen. keir, we rarely see this kind of a rivalry spill out into the open the way it did. again, it was what you call a pool spray where the cameras come, you exchange some niceties for four or five minutes and the cameras leave the room. this went on for well over an hour. there was a lot of translation mixed into it. but the two sides attacking each other in specific terms in front of the cameras. >> absolutely stunning diplomacy, the likes of which we haven't seen for a long time. in a sense, i guess you could say that this is the u.s. and china having the fight that they've been wanting to have for a long time. i think the big question is what happens next? you know, we have these huge trade ties with the chinese. there's the indo pacific challenges. there are so many pieces of this board and do the two sides, if you like, now move forward, figure out where they can work together and where they don't agree and kind of are they -- is china and the u.s. able to divide those? and another big question, to where do you allies fall? how does japan respond? how does south korea respond? in relation to russia, what does europe do and in relation to china? the europeans just signed a huge trade deal with the chinese before the biden administration took office. despite the biden administration trying to urge the europeans not to do that. it's fascinating. and it could get more challenging going forward. everything depends on the diplomacy, willie. >> keir simmons covering a lot of ground for us this morning. thanks so much. coming up, hunt, gather, parent. we'll talk to an author tackling that subject, straight ahead on "morning joe." that subject, straight ahead on "morning joe." i think the sketchy website i bought this turtle from stole all of my info. ooh, have you looked on the bright side? 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>> it's significant. >> the constable gonzalez has been working the boarder for more than 30 years. >> why do you think it's picking up? >> i think it's a policy change, honestly. >> many republicans argue president biden's policy shift allowing unaccompanied minors to stay in the u.s. is bringing the border surge and claims the trump white house saying the administration left the border a mess. the teenagers we spoke to say they know nothing about the policy shift. >> did you decide to cross because of president biden? no? >> instead, they say they made the trek because of violence in guatemala. they are transferred to border facilities for processing, but resources are stretched so thin it's taking days longer than that. across the border, revisited this migrant tent city. migrants told us they were in limbo. >> i'm very hopeful. >> the camp has since been dismantled. >> gabe gutierrez reporting from the border there. so, victoria, the biden administration doesn't want to call this a crisis out loud, but the numbers show it is a crisis, that there is a problem at the border. what should happen from here? what should the biden administration be doing to alleviate what we're seeing down there? >> so it's going to be a matter of processing, willie. what we need is infrastructure in terms of judges and the bureaucratic logistical piece that can get these kids to listen to their asylum claims, determine where they stay, whether they go with family members here in the united states and go from there. so there is that infrastructure piece. the other one is about the root cause of getting out, why these folks are leaving central america. and i think the big picture here, and the political picture is very complicated for the biden administration because we know that just yesterday the house passed a dream act, right? so a version of an act that would provide undocumented students, recipients who are already here a path to citizenship. but when you've got that split screen of providing dreamers a path to citizenship and what we're seeing at the border, we see the support from republican counterparts is not there. so there's the crisis at the border and the crisis at the beltway in terms of how do we move forward with a larger immigration plan. >> and as we heard from law enforcement in gabe's piece, many of them believe that the biden promise to soften the trump stance on immigration is at least contributing to some of this. let's turn to new collaboration from the boston university center for anti-racist research and the boston globe opinion staff called the emancipator named for a centuries old periodical. the goal of the new media platform is to change the national conversation on racial justice. >> that call for freedom has continued since the american revolution. and i think that call for freedom will continue to echo in the emancipator. >> boston has set a rich and storied tradition with newspapers. "the boston globe" is part of that. also part of that is the anti-slavery newspapers based here in the 19th century and helped bring about abolition of slavery in the united states. >> and the two leaders of that project join us now, beena venca and endie, coeditor of the book titled "four hundred souls." gene robinson is back with us. tell me about this initiative from you and ibram and from boston university and the boston globe. what is the objective here? >> the idea here is to resurrect and reimagine the powerful abolitionist era newspapers that in the 19th century helped provide a platform for voices, important debates, important thinking on abolition and the end of slavery in the united states. do that in the 21st century for the conversations that need to be had on racial justice. and we see this as a reframing from a lot of the debates that are happening in opinion sections of news organizations today, which is to say instead of asking the question of whether there's a problem with racism in this country or whether we should do something about it, we're shifting over to say, actually, let's accept that we have a problem and that we ought to do something about it and that it's an urgent problem and it's been an urgent problem for a hundred years in this country. and let's shift it to how do we solve that problem? what are the important conversations? what are the solutions? what is the scholarship, importantly, and that's why we're partnering with boston university on this that can inform a robust debate and conversation that urges us towards that society. >> gene robinson, the next question. >> question for ibram. as you imagine the emancipator, what do you imagine it covering? for example, would the emancipator also cover the rise in anti-asian american violence as part of the crusade against racism? would it -- or would it be more about ideas and events? how do you see it going forward? >> well, actually, i see it all of the above. there are many forms of racism. there's certainly anti-racism, and we're reeling from that as americans. there's anti-black, anti-native, anti-latinex, there's scholars studying whiteness. but then there's the relationship between racism and sexism which, of course, we're talking about in lieu of what happened with the atlanta area shootings. there's this relationship between racism and hoe mow phobia, racism and transphobia. there are so many racial disparities and inequities, in housing, in the economy, in criminal justice, in the environment. there's so much ground that could be covered just as there was so much ground that could be covered in the 19th century as related to slavery, which is why you have so many editors feeling as if they needed a platform to do so. >> beena, as you know, the elements of racism exist in boston as well as every other mays in the united states of america today. boston is not alone in that. but one of the elements is giving people of color and other minorities access to things that are so easily available within 15 miles of boston. within five miles of the core of boston. access to super markets, access to bank branches, access to health care. and in boston, it was only relatively early or relatively a little while ago in terms of the way we measure history that places like roxbury had such access. so what does this that you're doing with dr. kennedy, what does this do to enhance elements of squawk access to things that other communities take for granted? >> i'm so glad you brought that up. because boston does have such a mixed history and reputation when it comes to racial justice. certainly people know about our sports fans yelling slurs at athletes of color from other teams, people know about the history of busing and housing discrimination in the city. but people tend to forget and draw less on some of the powerful history that has happened here. this really was the hot bed of the abolitionist movement in the 20th century for the nation. and, of course, massachusetts banned enslavement before the treaty of paris was signed for the american revolution. so what we're trying to do is pull that thread of history of boston and address these problems and pull it into the print. and i'm so glad you brought up access. one of the things i think we can do for a project like this is draw on data and draw on scholarship to reshape narratives. so one of those narratives that you've been seeing a lot is there is vaccine hesitancy among communities to have color, people of color. if you start to un-beale that and if you bring in data sources, actually, black people are no more likely to be hesitant about covid-19 vaccines than while people. then you start to ask different questions and you ask is this about hesitancy or access to basic health care? is it about trust and health care because of the historic legacy of not having that access? do you talk about the issue that face communities in terms of obesity or food choices or do you talk about that in terms of access? do you understand them as communitywide problems and systemic problems? and i think once you start to unpeel those layers and tell those stories, you also have the ability to make it more specific and rich for more of the american public to understand you this problem. >> tori, i'll let you take the next question. >> thanks, willie. ibram, i love, love, love this project. i love your work. my students love your work. but i know that not everyone has the opportunity to read the full body of your work. so my question is about what forms of engagement you envision for this project to reach those folks that don't have the time or don't feel like -- at home, are we thinking podcasts, mini workshop lectures? how are you going to reach a wide swath of the american public? >> you know, i'm happy you asked this. because there are so many schoolers who are studying the complexity and intricacies of many different forms of racism. and i'm excited to partner with "the boston globe" and beena for those scholars to translate their work into ways that everyday people can conceive. they can clarify their scholarship and the complexities of racism through "the emancipator." that is certainly what would have been trying to do with my work and i've always trying to figure out ways that other schoolers who are studying racism, who are providing solutions that can allow us to built a just and equitable society that they have the platform to do so. >> the new project is called "the emancipator." thank you both so much and congratulations on the new initiative. we will be keeping an eye on it. thank you. coming up next here on "morning joe," an ancient solution to raising kids in the modern world. our next guest is exploring the lost art of parenting. exploring lost art of parenting. i made a business out of my passion. i mean, who doesn't love obsessing over network security? 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just get a quote at libertymutual.com. really? i'll check that out. oh yeah. i think i might get a quote. not again! aah, come on rice. do your thing. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my retirement plan with voya keeps me moving forward. they guide me with achievable steps that give me confidence. this is my granddaughter...she's cute like her grandpa. voya doesn't just help me get to retirement... ...they're with me all the way through it. voya. be confident to and through retirement. what are you so upset about? >> nathan, she's weird. she's a weird child. i think a few days of school could be helpful. >> this is not the age for her to be activated -- >> she's not a bomb. she has no ability to relate to other kids. >> you want her to relate to him? >> oh, man, that is such a good movie. moranis was great in that. scene from the 1989 film "parenthood." many parents feel like they're trying to reinvent the wheel to raise their kids and our next guest says the opposite should be true. joining us the author of "hunt, gather, parent: what ancient cultures can teach us about the lost art of raising happy, helpful, healthy humans." it's great to have you with us. before we get into what the ancient civilizations can teach us about parenting, let's talk about what we do wrong in the west, at least in the most recent generation of parenting. >> i think one of those big problems we have is that we generate so much conflict with our kids, that parenting is all about arguing, negotiating, bickering. i think all of this builds tension and stress in the relationship and it doesn't have to be that way. there is another approach that minimizes conflict and actually maximizes cooperation and builds a good relationship with your child instead of a stressful one. >> the term you know well, helicopter parent applies to the generation where parents are are all over their kids and helping them at any moment to get pass it, trying to eliminate conflict. too much praise as you pointed out in your book, too much toys we have for our kids as you pointed out in the book. how do we get around that looking at ancient civilization? >> what i learned in the past four years in writing this book and traveling and reporting is that there's -- sorry, i think that we have this idea in our minds that it's our responsibility to keep children busy, to occupy their time, to entertain them, whether it's a screen or toy, and actually if you look around the world and throughout human history, parents just did not do this. in fact, a lot of parents think doing a child a disservice when you do this because it stops them from being independent. when we helicopter or constantly praise them, we're actually instilling -- kind of taking away their ability to learn to be confident and their ability to learn to be self-sufficient. a big part of this book is about learning to back off. not free range, like, you know, just let them go free but back off and pay attention and then help when it's really only needed and then just a very, very gentle, gentle touch. i have to say with this approach, it's much less exhausting and tiring and more sustainable. >> yeah, it's almost a cliche now but even for me when i was a kid, you would go out on your bicycle after school and parents would say see you at dinnertime or when the street lights come on, it's time to come home. you don't see that a lot anymore. >> no, and amazingly you're still spoiled after all of these years. but let me try to simplify this because i'm a simple person and father of seven children. are you essentially saying that the difference between ancient cultures and today's culture involving child raising, child rearing is that ancient cultures knew how to say no? >> that's a very -- that's very interesting. i definitely think we've lost kind of the ability to teach children to respect others and to work together with others, and some of that is saying no, but i think it's also about saying no and then letting it go and not arguing, not negotiating. and a lot of places that i have visited, parents just don't argue with children. if they say no, they leave it and walk away. there's not like endless rounds of negotiating. i think that's a big thing that's happened in the last couple decades, we're not okay with kind of just saying no and being the one in charge and letting it go. and that's the end of it. >> gene robinson, any of this sound familiar to you? >> it does sound familiar to me, and, you know, it is possible to say no. and i think it's also possible to walk away from the discussion with the answer being no. but my question is this, in prehistoric times, children wandered out and got eaten by lions and fell over cliffs and stuff, so how do you balance it, right? because you have the duty to protect our children? >> yeah, what's interesting the person describing in the book is not just like letting kids do whatever. it's actually teaching children the skills they need so that they can go out and explore and be safe. and this -- i think we lost some of this. we either keep them inside and really kind of coddled it and protected them or we just say now you're free, go run. and it's actually a very specific way of teaching them the skills so they can then slowly expand their range. and i have to say that right now in the u.s., it's the safest time ever for children and we forget that, right? children, you know, it's the safest time to be outside and play and we have a lot of fear instilled in us. this book is a lot about getting rid of that fear and building confidence in our chern and confidence in ourselves as parents. >> victoria, i know you have a 6-year-old and 7-year-old probably taking notes as you listen here. >> absolutely. i think speaking from personal experience, a lot of what i deal with is guilt, right? i don't want to be the mean parent, i want to give in, i don't want to say no because of that guilt. so how do we deal with that as parents, especially working moms? >> you know, i think the thing is that saying no is what children need, that's -- being able to hear that is a skill they need in adulthood, right? so we're doing a disservice. you should be guilty if you're not saying no because children need to hear that. they need to hear guidance, they need to hear criticism. one of the things is we kind of stopped criticizing children and it's all praise and this is not helping them in the real world deal with reality as they grow up. >> the book is "hunt, gather, parent: what ancient cultures can teach us about the lost art of raising happy, helpful little humans." thank you so much for being here. fascinating conversation. good to see you. and that does it for us this morning. thank you all for being with us. we'll see you back here monday morning. for now we will turn it to stephanie ruhle, who knows a few things about parenting herself. >> stephanie ruhle, the mean parent, live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it's friday, march 19th. let's get smarter. this morning we're focused on the peach state of georgia, where it seems like all of the biggest headlines in the country are coming together at the same time. in just a few hours from now, the president and vice president will head to the state where they had originally intended to promote the new relief bill. instead the trip has a new purpose, meeting with asian american leaders in the wake of tuesday's deadly string of shootings in atlanta. they will also stop by the cdc to talk covid and vaccines, coinciding with news that today the united states will hit the president's target of administering 100 million vaccines since he

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