interested in chico or interested in just being part of this effort, i would love for you to do that. you can go to muddy paws rescued.org on how to adopt foster, or just donate. thank you so much for joining us. we'll see you tomorrow night, seeing a news night with abby. phillip starts now the lesson, donald trump hasn't learned. that's tonight on good evening. i'm abby phillip in new york and tonight, political revenge is now the republican party's policy. governor larry hogan, dare to say that the rule of law deserves to be respected and for that it's now put them in the crosshairs of his colleagues and that three-letter committee that is supposed to be in charge of helping him win in november does the republican national committee support larry hogan for senate well, i'll tell you one thing. >> i don't support what he just said there. i think it's ridiculous and i think anybody who's not speaking up in the face of really something that should never again have seen the light of day at trial that would never have been brought against any the other person aside from dr. the rnc, has important are the respect of anyone respective anymore to you? he doesn't deserve a respect of anyone in the republican party at this point. and quite frankly, anybody in america, if that's the way you feel ignoring what the court says because you don't like the conclusions of americans who were just doing their civic duty. that's not what americans think actually. >> the polls that are measuring how americans actually think and feel in the immediate aftermath of this trump verdict? oh, just take a look at what they found. >> americans think that the jury actually got it right, that trump should have been convicted of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, and 49% say the trump should end his campaign but the virtue most important to the republican party is fealty they are happy to swim upstream against public opinion, against recent history huygens, very public statement means that he's likely headed for public breakup with mega if that wasn't already the case and frankly, trump doesn't have a great track record when it comes to picking candidates and truly competitive races. remember, trump-backed herschel walker in the senate race walkers campaign ended in a loss to democrat raphael warnock remember, dr. oz? well, trump backed him over mcconnell approved senate choice as loss blake master's. he was a trump favorite to not a favorite of the voters though adam blacksalt, trump thought that he would win he lost in 2017 republican roy moore got the trump endorsement despite accusations that he's sexually abused, teenagers alabama? yes alabama picked a democrat the lesson here that revenge is a dish that you are supposed to serve to the other guys, not to force feed to your own political party joining me now is former montana governor mark roscoe. >> he's also the former chairman of the republican national committee governor. thanks for joining us tonight. when you hear donald trump's daughter-in-law, lara trump, who's now the head of the rnc saying that larry hogan doesn't deserve the respect of anyone in the republican party. and what goes through your mind well it's incredibly, it's contemptuous, it's rude and inappropriate. >> larry hogan is for anybody any conversation anywhere, but particularly when you're talking about politics and our democracy, larry hogan is distinguished office older. he was elected in a democratic state strongly democratic state. he was widely respected by virtually everyone who worked with so at the end of the day, the only thing i can think about who said it was immature which contemptuous and it was rude. >> is that the role of the rnc though to basically say that a republican who is currently running for office doesn't deserve to hold that post just because they disagree with donald trump on his criminal convictions well, it certainly is not acceptable in my time and neither is it acceptable in my understanding of the values we share, it has been more acceptable apparently, to donald trump and his progeny and all of those who associate with him. >> that's the language of the modern day republican party. and it's more of a mob than it is a party. and they exercise and demonstrate that particular difference by their verbiage and their lack of good manners and good sense and honest purpose i want to play something that was said from republican senator from north carolina, thom tillis. he said this to cnn today and it's basically a warning. take a listen i think the big mistake that we make this the shift our attention away from a failing economy of failing global catch are those are the key issues that are driving voters in november. >> while on earth we would shift our attention away from that for any sort of quick fix on this decision doesn't make sense? trump wins. if we focus on those issues, regardless of what the centers, whatever what occurs or sentencing just on the tactics. >> i mean, there are republicans making a short sighted decision here by backing trump on this issue and going so hard on this so not on some of those other bread and butter issues where are you know, frankly, yeah, abby, every race is about character. >> it's about the ability to have a moral code, a center that keeps our democracy which is dependent upon every one in this country consenting to that form of government maintaining a level of civility that allows for people to actually communicate. if you can't respect each other, if you can't trust each other, if you can't carry on a conversation with each other and focused upon character, the primary point of our constitution. then the entire country, country those apart. so frankly, senator tillis, in my judgment, is absolutely incorrect. the first judge was we ought to be making are about character, ethics and a moral code that serves the people of this country well not ignoring, of course, that this was a conviction in the historic one at that mark roscoe. thank you very much for joining us my pleasure. >> thank you. >> and breaking tonight, president biden is using trump's conviction on the campaign trail now, at a fundraiser, he says that the race has entered uncharted territory as the first time. he calls trump a convicted felon. he also says that something quotes snapped in trump when he lost in 2020. now, trump is warning what would happen if he's actually thrown behind bars? >> i don't know that the public would stand it. i don't i'm not sure the public would stand for with a house arrest for i think i think it would be tough for the public to take, you know, at a certain point, there's a breaking point trying to me now seeing them contributor leah wright rigueur, former senior congressional gop advisor reno shaw, cnn political commentators anna navarro and coleman hughes, and a trump always going right to the edge of a threat. >> essentially, what did you make of his remarks reckless irresponsible. >> here we go again. really, it's amazing that after what we all live through january 6, and even though today there might be people trying to erase history and whitewash history. we all know what we saw in january 6, and we all know that it was reckless words by donald trump and his accomplices that led to january 6, foster that climate that that fell the fire. and it was misinformation. it was lies. he's doing it all over again he's doing it all over again the thing that i keep thinking about is that jury, any of us could be on that jury, right? these are american citizens that did their duty and. what they're getting in exchange for having put their lives in suspense for six weeks is threats. getting docs, being told that they are liking cuba, that this was a sham trial. really shame and all of these republicans will call themselves leyen order. republicans in this effort to cao, to trump that all just go are asking our legal system which may not be perfect, but it's the best in the world. >> i paraphrase a little bit of what president biden is saying tonight at a fundraiser. and it's rain that script. i mean, he is going after trump on this issue. is that the right move? i mean, there seems to be a little bit it hesitancy in the white house and in the campaign about whether he should touch this particular thing. >> i don't think it's the right move this moment, and i'll say it's because it's taking the bait in a way it's because trump is going to say something more outlandish every day to save himself, to scare people into submission to voting for him. but what does this get? biden by telling the american people that's a square we get it. you're not going to fit a round peg into a square, but he should be he thinking a little bit more. i would say long term he should be giving us a vision of what america could look like if trump were to get elected again, playing the long green, maybe. >> so just to i mean, it sounds like that's kind of what they're trying to say. i mean, one of the things that struck out to me was he's like trump has snapped. he can't accept defeat anymore, but he's not saying it to the american people, right? he's not, he's not, he's not saying from the white house, he's not saying it from the presidential bully pulpit. he's saying it. i don't fundraiser with supporters and donors. it's a very different ambiance. it's a very different setting than saying it from the precedential pulpit where he has not hearing, but it still gets magnified in the same way. and so those people who are kind of checked out and not really plugged in their thinking. hey, it's the president speaking in a way they're kind of putting him in a place where it's like, okay, how much morgan to respond to trump everyday, i think the campaign messaging, right now should not take the bait, should put pushback because as a former gop operative, i can tell you, i've sat in rooms where i've been a gassed and how nasty the messaging is going to get. the gop is going to go low. today's gop goes low. it's what michelle obama said when they go low. we have to go hide those words, couldn't be doing it though rena and leah, you can jump in here because the poles said hey the american people are behind this verdict. so i think it's important to remember, is anna pointed out that the context of this is a fundraiser so in part, what biden is doing is essentially throwing read me to the democratic base we saw last week that there were a lot of people who were an essence celebrating what they said was the accountability within the justice system, within an imperfect justice system. in a week where the republican party has raised anywhere between 50 to $241 million what is depending on who you're talking about. now is the time i think for democrats to think about how are we going to pull numbers? how are we going to pull the same amount of money? and one of the ways that you do is by tapping in i love that michelle obama phrase when they go, when they go low, we go high, but we have all seen how that has worked out. it has not worked out. and fundamentally what we are talking about now is a shift not from tactics that are dirty and dark, but a shift away from democracy. and so it's important, i think for biden to address it. however strategically he done, i'm glad you to like that phrase this is because let me tell you something yeah. normally, i would think if you're a opponent is a convicted felon, you should be hammering on that. that just seems like common sense. >> if we actually look at the trump versus biden polling over the past year-and-a-half. >> remember, trump? does not dominant in the polling a year-and-a-half ago but before the indictments landed, as each indictment landed, you saw him ticking up and up in the polls. now, is that just correlation or is it causation if it's causation, it could mean that sort of focusing, spiking the football turns off independence and feeds into the perception that it's a political prosecution. i want to just note that as all of this is going on, it just today, the hunter biden trial is underway. >> jury selection was underway. we saw the first lady in the court today. these things are basically on her birthday. these things are basically happening simultaneously as from a political perspective the president, also put out a statement how is this going to impact him even though these are hunter biden's troubles but it's putting it all out there for the world to see. >> well, i think there's two questions. how does that impact him politically? we don't know that yet. and how does it impact him? personally as a father, there is no doubt that this joe biden adores his son, wants to keep them close. i think probably feels some degree of responsibility. i suspect that joe biden thinks that he if hunters last name wasn't biden, he probably would not be going to court, not be at this trial. >> but i think that supposition could not be more dramatic right? at the time that republicans are trying to sell this idea, this narrative, that this is a political persecution, that this is joe biden's department of justice persecuting donald trump, which is a lie because it was done in state court in new york the department, joe biden's department of justice, they one day they're actually putting on trial. he does with his son. it does actually seem to completely upend that. i mean, you've got republican saying the doj is corrupt. they're prosecuting the president's son, right now. >> but yes, they are prosecuting the president's son. but i also want to point in as we've seen, these kind of images in these testimonies from the child tick trickle in. i think it may actually have a different effect than we expect it to in part one of the things that we saw over and over again in these testimonies was people talking about how alcoholism and drug addiction has affected their families. we know that this has been a cause or an approach that republicans and democrats have been able to surround themselves, have been able to jump on because so many people have been affected by it so i think we can look at one hunter biden story in the way that he is being the way that he is both being targeted. but how people are receiving it. and then deep sympathy that is i think engendering and people as they are watching this happen, it is very different then the kind than the way that people were watching the trump the trump trials and the trump hearings. all right. everyone. thank you very much. great discussion i had for us a member of the exonerated central park 5 reacts to the verdict donald trump for the first time, plus y the chaos of the anthony fauci hearing today on capitol hill was a big missed opportunity for americans do you represent science, mr. fauci? yes. yeah. yes or no? no, that's not a yes or no? yes. it's a yes or no. i don't think it is okay. >> well, we'll take that as you don't know what she represents like it's 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and the consequence is that we don't legitimately focus on the actual mistakes that did happen and what needs to change for the next emergency. like, for example, social distancing from the very start, health agencies and leaders told everyone to remain six feet apart, which was, we now know, not backed by scientific studies on covid, but where did that guidance come from? well, dr. anthony fauci testified this year behind closed doors that the guidance quote, just appeared. he got more specific in his public testimony today you'd, actually came from the cdc, the cdc was responsible for those kinds of guidelines for schools, not me when i say was not based in science, i meant a pro prospective clinical trial to determine whether six foot was better than three was better than ten now fauci explains that he believes the cdc came up with that number based on its decades old recommendations for avoiding the flu. and it just kinda stuck but he put the onus on the cdc and fauci adopted the guidance, guidance and he delivered it to americans ending the covid outbreak in 30 days has some aspect of it, a physical separation, whether that's avoiding crowds whether that staying six feet away from people, whether that's doing teleworking, all of it. >> does that really goes beyond six feet. so if you cough, sneeze, or even taught a droplet with tenth to drop to the ground, which is the reason for the six feet limit that we talk about about staying away the minimal thing that you should do is the kinds of things that we've been talking about constantly wearing a mask maintaining six feet of distance avoiding crowds, transmission is respiratory route, direct person to person usually in close contact, which is the reason why we ask that people maintain a six-foot distance, things like alternating classes, morning, afternoon alternating days, monday, wednesday, friday, tuesday, thursday. what have you physical separation and class seating people six feet apart and to be fair officials like dr. >> fauci, we're trying to save lives. and he has spent his entire life doing that. and studies show that physical distancing did in fact achieved that. but again, six feet, that number that was arbitrary. here's how fight fauci is explaining it now i've challenged the cdc multiple times publicly on this regard. excuse me, publicly, you challenge them on the six-foot distance. it is not appropriate to be publicly challenging a sister organization going along with guidance without data, that isn't science. but the real question here is, why did it take so long for health officials to change or end that guidance? the cdc didn't make it official until august of 2022. that's more than two years into the pandemic. it's also more than a year-and-a-half after the cdc's own study showed that virtual school can be damaging to children's mental health and remember, it also hurt. their academic health. children lost about 35% of a normal school year's worth of learning during the pandemic and many are still suffering the effects of that but i say this because there are legitimate questions that needs serious answers about the covid pandemic to avoid the mistakes in the next one, and to build confidence in health guidelines except that if you were watching the fauci hearing today, you didn't get that. this is what you saw instead you should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. you belong in prison. dr. fauci so you said about four or five things, congressman, that would just not true well, we have emails just prove it. well, you don't they're treating you dr. fauci like a convicted felon actually, you probably wish they were treating you like a convicted felon. they treat convicted felons with love and admiration. >> do you agree that there was a push to downplay the lab-leak theory? >> not on my part, really, really. wow, wow. >> do you represent science, mr. fauci? yes. yeah. yes or no? no, that's not a yes or no assets. uh, yes? so now i don't think it is. >> okay. well, we'll take that as a you don't know what you represent thorough. are you saying this is fake news right now, let's say i made anything up. >> what did you say? >> i said that it is not based in science and adjust appeared but this is science what is dogs have to do with anything that we're talking about today? i am so sorry. you just had to sit through that. that was completely irresponsible. quite frankly, some we're hearing this might be the most insane hearing i want to be clear, dr. >> fauci is human and shore he may have made mistakes. many government officials did, including the president at the time, trump but he's been attacked with death threats and ad hominem arguments. all of which have now crossed the line, joining me now on all of this is the former director of the biomedical advanced research and development authority, dr. rick bright dr. bryan was fired because he cast doubt on hydrochloric quinn's effectiveness as a covid drug, that remedy had been embraced by then president trump dr. brian, thanks for joining us you heard earlier there, dr. fauci she put the responsibility for the invention of this six-foot social distancing guideline on the cdc, he said he didn't think it was right to blame another agency publicly do you buy that? >> i'm watching the play and thanks for having me i'm watching that replay. really invokes a lot of ptsd and it's it's really difficult to see people in congress behave this way when we have so many issues that we need to address to make sure that we are better prepared for next outbreak at the time. and as we are seeing now, we don't have all the information about the outbreak. we don't have all the answers and we have to do what we have to do that we think is best to protect people at the time. and we will get additional data as the time rolls on. and sometimes those guidelines are those things that we think we know change as we learn more data and i have a feeling that many of those decisions made it that group level. were made based on the best information we had at the time. however, i disagree with dr. patreon saying that you shouldn't challenge a sister agency, i think as scientists, we always challenge the science. and if we believe that science or things that are happening are wrong or incorrect are not in the best action we should speak out. and there's consequences and speaking out as i know, dearly for speaking out against chloroquine and hydroxychloroqu ine. but the truth needs to be told. we need to tell it and we need to save lives regardless if it's against a sister agency or any agency around the world you've heard a lot of republicans that hearing, i mean, some of them, the same republicans who pushed bogus covid remedies with absolutely no scientific backing. >> what's whoever they're talking about? scientific guidance coming out of the government. i mean, do you find that to be hypocritical well again, the government needs to be on top of the science needs to work very closely with scientists and not all of those scientists are within government. >> we need to really pay attention to the best science around the world and congress isn't there to interpret science. congress is there to set policies and laws and they should listen to the scientists is a bit hypocritical for those who don't understand science to try to challenge science and people who in many cases we're doing the best they could with limited knowledge we had at the time hi dr. rick bright, r0 appreciate you joining us tonight. thank you very much thank you, abby and up next donald trump, he's now a convicted felon, but back in the 1980s, he wanted the book thrown at use of salaam, one of the exonerated five falsely accused of raping a jogger so what does salaam think of him now, we'll ask him, plus an espn host calls caitlin clark and white the word. and now there's a national conversation about race. and this woman's four sometimes the best thing you can do with intelligence 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council and use of salaam is here. thank you for joining us councilmen trump. >> you remember this vividly. i'm sure took out a full-page ad in the new york daily news. he called for you and the other four to be executed when his verdict came out, your statement said that you don't take pleasure in trump's verdict it's quite a contrast you know, when i think about the juxtaposition of what happened 34 years ago, 35 years ago donald trump won the state to kill us and they looked at. >> us because they said they guilty because of the color of their skin in a country that says you're innocent until proven guilty and so he was a firestarter that literally lit the match to make people believe that black and brown people were guilty of some of the most heinous things that you could ever imagine. the fact that the matter is that we hadn't done anything. we would guilty because of the color of our skin and donald trump took out a four-page air two weeks after we were accused. and call for the state to kill us really, really evil vindictive and at the same time it gave rise to other people chiming in saying, you know what, let's just take the oldest one and hang him from a tree in central park. >> pat buchanan said that on the heels of what donald trump said. >> and he made it. okay. i think for people to come out and to say, we don't care that the system says innocent until proven guilty. but here, donald trump was found guilty. >> and he says, i that same courthouse, the viewer he was found guilty in that courthouse absolutely. >> and he says that it's proof that the justice system is rigged because he was convicted. >> i think it's proved that the ark of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice i don't think that we should look at people who are in privileged positions who can use their money and their talk to get out of things. it's about what you're doing. it's about karma. it's about believing and understanding that there will be a reckoning. and i think we have to really, really hone into that and try to do the best that we can with what we have all the time. >> not do evil here he is now saying, you know what give me leniency. >> these people are corrupt, these people are sick everything that he has shown us those words are falling on him he is never acknowledged his role in this. he's never apologized for his role in this. he is a former president at one time was the most powerful man in this country i mean, i'm sure it doesn't surprise you. but do you think that it's time? >> too late his time would have been when we were found innocent, 13 years after they thought we were guilty to take out full-page ads apologizing but yet he kept doubling down even when we want our lawsuit. he said now they're going to be rich reposts. april ryan came out on the on the lawn at the white house and asked him are you going to apologize? and he said no they had to be guilty of something that is a tragedy that is whether it's the justice system has failed us. but guess what i call that the criminal system of injustice. >> i think i might be able to say we have a criminal justice system again when you hear people like senator him scarred saying, this is proof that there's a two tiered system of justice for people like you who were actually falsely accused, convicted, spent time in prison for a crime you did not commit. >> what do you say to someone like tim scott? >> the two tier justice system is there. >> we know it because it runs over us with this spike wheels. >> the problem is that when a person like donald trump says this is unfair if they could do it to me, there could do it to anyone. he says, i'm just like you goes into the bronx and says, hey, i'm just like you should vote for me the truth of the matter is that if he was just like us he would have been marching with the marchers same justice for the central park five. he would have been marching with the martyrs saying justice for tamara. any any one of the names that we have, eric gardner, tamir rice so many names of victims. but yet when it comes to the real juxtaposition, racism when you are able to go into a church like dylan roof did pray with the parishioners and then shoot them and get captured alive that is the two-tier justice system that if you can use the color of your skin and say i have the complexion for acceptance or i have the complexion for rejection. the truth of the matter is that we need a true justice system that says innocent until proven guilty. and yet now the jurors have spoken councilman yusef salaam, great to have you here. thank you very much for joining us. >> my absolute pleasure. thank you for having me next for us. caitlin clark, getting a rough welcome to the wnba, but it is the vulgar the action to the flagrant foul against her. that's getting some buzz today. bob costas and carry champion join me next to discuss the increase in wildfires is exponential onto the uncontrollable with overwhelming consequences the 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espn hosted. >> apologize after that and he said he directly sent an apology to clark joining me now is seen on contributors carry champion and bob costas kerry yes. now, with anyone else, have been able to get away with pat mcafee back? >> let's his brand absolutely not right. >> so espn, in a way is i ended with their brand or not. yeah. there's no world that i'm familiar with where a woman is okay with another man calling her the b word. and in any capacity, i think maybe it's okay with girlfriends and we key key. that's a fair that's fair and honest statement. >> but i'm not so much matt, i'm really not angry with with pat mcafee. >> what i'm what i'm angry with him are the new the new viewers and followers and analysts who are trying trying to describe this women's game. welcome to the wnba we're happy you've arrived, but do me a favor. do your research. that's where they argue the arguments are happening and people are angry. >> let me okay. let me play. this is steven a, talking about this on the show there are girls, young ladies in the wnba who are jealous of caitlin clark she is a white girl that has come into the league. she has burst onto the scene. she hasn't proven herself yet it's not even about them thinking they're better than her because they probably know it at this particular juncture because they've been playing on a level xij just arrived to now, monica there on the screen, you didn't have time to play it, but she she made the point that carries making which is welcome to the wnba. >> a lot of new fans, but a lot of people have a critiques about women leinz forts. >> well, yeah, but i think it's fair to say because it's complicated like many things. there is an element of jealousy because of all the attention that caitlin clark has received. and some people attribute some of that attention to the fact that in addition to being a very exciting and record-setting player, she it is white in a league that is not as disproportionate. that's the wrong word. >> not as what's the word i wanted. >> i'm looking for dominantly black the right but not as much as the nba, but it's closer to 50 50 from my observation, but it's still there's a large african-american presence and there may be some resentment from some people, but that doesn't account, that doesn't mean that that's the entire story here. a lot of this stuff to the point you're getting at a lot of this stuff is what happens in sports. a highly touted rookie white, black baseball, football, basketball, hockey. they're gonna be tested by the veterans and sometimes that will cross a line. kennedy carter did was a dirty play. >> it was a flagrant foul the flagrant file where disagrees, but, this is where i take issue with your large platform. stephen jay smith, do you really have to promote the jealousy? there's an element of that shore, but there's also an element of people saying welcome to the league, rook you get the same treatment i get. i don't care who you are. america has a hard time looking at a black woman, go aggressively towards eight white woman. they better get used to it because this is how these women play the game. why is it? i mean, this is a look, i'm going to be transparent. i am not a huge wnba. i'm not a big sports fan. fine, but i look at this and i'm like, why are they treating caitlin clark? >> that's like a child. >> she's a player that much she's a star. okay, so here's what i'm saying is like why or why is it that she has to suddenly be protected? she is an athlete like everybody else. >> they create a rules for stars it's like a michael jordan, if you will. and they create rules for stars because they do need to be protected. the reason why they are protecting her at all costs is because she is the reason why people waiting, gretzky was protected. wayne gretzky was protected so we can go it happens in all leagues, and i'm not saying she should not be protected. i don't think they should caudal her. in fact, i don't think they're calling her. i think she wants to get out there and ball in play and she doesn't understand the elements from college to pro yeah. and so what we're looking at right now, i believe in real time is people end. this is a fair it's yes and bob, it's yes, we should protect our cash cow. she's at people are paying money to watch her. for a lot of the attention to the league. but actually dishes all up basketball and everybody benefits from it. >> yeah everybody benefits. but the resentment that i think most people are filling bob and i and if i could speak for some of the wnba players, it's not so much dramatic. caitlin clark, they're mad at how the wnba is now decided to pay attention to the league and give them more attention at this moment. and so some of that might be residual kaitlan, but it really is about, i've been here at been working all your life. well i play one more thing for you, bob jordi, you to respond to this is angel reese the swaying and she has other big star right now in wnba, listen people are talking about women's basketball. >> you've never would think that we we talked about women's basketball. people are pulling up the games. we got celebrity he's coming to games spelled out arenas like just because of one single game. and just looking at that like, i'll take that role. i'll take the bad guy role. reason why we watching women's basketball is not just because one person is because of me too, and i went out, i realize that what he's talking about, the championship game right the part lsu vs iowa. and lsu prevailed. but two, your earlier point, there was an incident recently, alyssa thomas, who happens to be african-american grabbed the angel reese by the throat and through her to the floor flagrant to ejected from the game. the reason why that doesn't spark as much conversation isn't just the caitlin clark is a bigger star than alyssa thomas. it's because it's a black on black incident when you don't have you don't have you don't have how that dynamic that people can comment on? yes. but also exaggerate and make the entire stories and also that is really that, that is my minds about a wnba when women of a certain color there were beating up and bruising each other because it's been happening since the league's exception inception. we have this star, this person that people love. they want to protect her. so now the new fans and the new analysts and the new people have so much to say, bob, thank you for saying that and acknowledging that because you're a legend in this sport and you are also gracious enough to say, look, i'm not an expert in the wnba, but what i do know from the history and what i do know, this is why she is being treated this way why knows i've seen it in every sport. newcomer is tested and to some extent resented i mean, what's wrong with players being aggressive to a certain degree, but not the way nothing like kennedy carter was that was there it's a process for that and the game handles that, yes. >> by penalizing the player why does it have to be jealousy? >> that's what i have asked this question. i'm sorry, i'm so i'm living my blood is boiling. i've been so angry about this topic they call day because it's so simple to make women versus women a conversation, but it's just so simple. there should be more layers to this sport. if you're really going to welcome yourself too. for the wnba and cover it and talk about it. can we be more than just jealous? can there be some real true competition? can they just be out? i know you're because i didn't know where you're coming from. it all i've had this conversation and i'm like, you know what i'm saying? why do i do why is it so simple? i think it'd be foolish to say that resentment and jealousy are not part of the mix because those are human emotion. >> sure to elevate that above everything else and discard everything else in a complicated dynamic that's the wrong way to go. corral. well, bob costas carry champion barbara, we still best friends by the way, i'll slip this in quickly. i was telling carry earlier, i first saw women's college basketball like 40 years ago when i was doing men's games, university of missouri and they play the college game, the women's game forehand in front of like 150, 200 people and the level of play in that few decades has improved so dramatically, the level of play now is really, really good. >> yeah. all right. i think this is good for this forum. >> i like, by the way, it's all great for this. thanks for having you both very much great to have you here. and up next for us, one of america's heroes is finally getting a long overdo honore won that was held back because of his race will explain like we've got ourselves a bad man right here we've talked enough these territory and they don't come try you i will take from you until you are wiped clean from this link you use that much this year everyone had much needed, but yeah i can saga read it. are unnecessary no. neither is missing your 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200 lives but the hundreds of medals of honor that were conferred after world war ii, woodson never made the cut. in fact, not a single black soldier was given that honore that didn't change until 1997 when seven black service members were honored because of the blatant racial discrepancy. woodson made the shortlist for that ceremony, but still wasn't selected here's later. he is finally earned the distinguished service cross and his widow accepted the award on her husband's behalf. >> she said, quote waverly would have felt honored to be recognized for what he knew, what his his duty. >> but we all know it was far more than duty it was his desire to always help people in need