general of north carolina, democrat roy cooper. we should note that this debate is happening at a difficult time. hundreds of thousands of north carolinians are without power, and flooding still remains a threat for so many. some of you are having to listen on the radio or are streaming this debate because of no power. we want to thank you and thank both candidates and the viewers, and we hope things return to normal as soon as possible. let me begin by quickly covering the rules of tonight's debate. it will last an hour and we'll begin with one-minute opening stat and then i will pose questions directly to the candidates. i should note these questions have been determined by me and members of the radio and news association of the carolinas. each candidate will have one minute to respond and a 30-second rebuttal. i do reserve the right to follow up as needed. we will conclude the debate with 90-second closing statements. there is a device that will time. we ask that they adhere to these time limits so we don't have to become time cops. the current governor of north carolina pat mccrory, and the current attorney general of north carolina, roy cooper. let's give them a round of applause. i want both to know there is a live audience and hopefully that's as much as they participate in this debate. mr. mccrory, by virtue of the coin toss, you will go with your one-minute opening statement. you also receive the first question. mr. mccrory, go ahead. >> chuck, first, welcome to north carolina. this is a very difficult time to our state. sadly, i had to announce two hours ago at the emergency center that we've now lost 17 people in these recent floods. our hearts and prayers are with those families. and i'm also extremely proud of our team, our national guard. i'm proud of the president for working with us. i'm very proud of our emergency operations team and all of the i do want to make an announcement that, however, if you're in moore county and live below woodlake dam, if you live below that dam, you need to evacuate that area immediately because the engineers have not certified the strength of that dam based upon some work today. and i need to make that point very, very strong. if you're one of the 60 holdouts, leave. do not put yourself at risk, and do not put our emergency operations people at risk. this is not the first crisis i've had to deal with at governor. i've had to deal with natural crises and manmade crieses that i came into 3 1/2 or 4 years ago. we dealt with those crises and we solved them. we're a problem-solver. we're going to continue that during the next four years. >> thank you, mr. mccrory. mr. cooper. >> our hearts and our thoughts and our prayers go out to the victims of flooding tonight, and over the next few weeks and them. but tonight we're going to be talking about our future. and for the last four years, governor mccrory has taken our state backward. and throughout this campaign, he hasn't been honest with you about his record. he has failed to make education a priority. that's why we're 41st in teacher pay. and he signed hb-2, writing discrimination into our law, and with the stroke of a pen damaged north carolina's brand, costing us thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars. we're on pace to have twice as many layoffs this year as last year, and so many people in the middle class are asking when they're going to see the gains of a growing economy. we need a good jobs governor, not a house bill 2 governor. good jobs and schools are my priority. and i'm going to work to make sure we spread the word across this country that north carolina is open for business for everyone. mr. mccrory, we're going to start with hb-2. as you know, since its passage, businesses have canceled plans to expand in the state. nba, acc, ncaa have moved events. duke basketball coach mike krzyzewski have called the law embarrassing. how do you stake the state's reputation without repealing the law? >> the thing that's mayor from charlotte with the support of a very liberal attorney general started this mess. it's one of the biggest fibs where they say the bathroom laws were made by republicans. we never brought this issue up. it was the mayor of charlotte with strong support from the attorney general who decided to put a mandate on the entire private sector who had public facilities and say we're going to fine you unless you recognize identity and gender expression, a major change in culture, in not just north carolina but our country. it wasn't needed. it wasn't called for. it was the liberals who brought this issue up. as governor, i will say this. i don't care if you're the sector what your bathroom rules should be. it's not our business and shouldn't be the business of north carolina. if you're in our high schools, if go to the man's restroom or shower. if you're a woman, you're going to go to their shower. >> thank you, mr. mccrory. mr. cooper. >> house bill 2 has to be repealed. it writes discrimination into our law, and it has been a disaster for our economy. paypal, hundreds of jobs. asheville, hundreds of jobs. the acc, the ncaa. this legislation was passed in one day and signed in the middle and governor mccrory continues to go across the state telling people that this is not hurting our economy. he attacks businesses who are opposed to it and says that everything is going fine. governor, what planet are you on? we have to pull the business community together. we have to get this law repealed. we've got to quit blaming it on other people. blaming it on me, blaming it on the president, blaming it on charlotte. house bill 2 now. >> if you notice, the attorney general does not refute the claim that he and jennifer roberts started this mess. it's been a swindle of things. and it has embarrassed north carolina. and the fact of the matter is if they just leave this new definition of gender expression and gender identity, which changes the whole definition of man and woman, boy and girl, and our privacy rights, if we're not gonna have leaders stand up for the basic rights of privacy in city, ahead of money, then we're losing strong national leadership. >> you've got 30 seconds. >> i'm glad that governor mccrory has admitted this is an embarrassment to north carolina, because it is. we had investors come in to tell us they controlled $2 trillion worth of assets, and they came in and told us that this is essentially state government inflicted recession. governor mccrory attacked them and then wilmington to a speech to the chamber of commerce said that we needed to attract more capital and more investments in north carolina. >> i've got a couple -- >> i got a standing ovation at that wilmington chamber of commerce event. >> i have follows for both of you. i want you each to have 30-second responses. i'm going to give you each 30 seconds to respond to the other. first, mr. cooper, you declined to defend hb-2. you are the elected, chief law defend, aren't you setting an example and you're telling the citizens to pick and choose laws to follow? >> i took an oath to defend the constitution just like governor mccrory did. i told governor mccrory not to sign this law. i told the legislature not to pass it because it writes discrimination into the law, and it is costing us hundreds of millions of dollars. and the governor has spent so much money it has hurt our brand. it's got to stop. it has to stop. >> 30 seconds. >> he has stated that he's running a multi-million-dollar commercial saying he's going to stop talking about social issues. that's all he talks about because he wants to cover up the incredible progress in this economy. we've lowered unemployment. we've created 300,000 new jobs. we've lowered taxes. the only issue he wants to talk about is a social issue, which and he's fooling the people of north carolina. i agree with you. let's get off the social issues. let's get out of bathroom politics and start creating jobs in north carolina as we've done for the past three years. >> my follow to you, mr. mccrory, as a conservative, as a republican, somebody that believes in limited government, you've said you didn't want raleigh getting involved in city politics around the state. why is it okay for raleigh to get involved in charlotte's politics? >> because charlotte shouldn't create a new mandate on our -- our line of responsibility is not to create new mandates for business. by the way, i don't think hillary clinton and barack obama should do it through the justice department either, which is exactly what they're doing in changing the definition of gender. and the fact of the matter is, this is going to be resolved in the supreme court, where it should be, not in the politicians' hand, and 21 other states in the united states of america have joined me in that effort to stop government private issue. >> 30 seconds for you. >> governor mccrory used to trust local government. now he doesn't. what you have here is legislation that is hurting our state and taking us backwards. and he's the one who's been all over national tv talking about house bill 2 and talking about how important this legislation is to protect people when we all know these are political scare tactics. this law was born in and, unfortunately, now people are suffering because of it. and it has to be repealed. >> we do agree on that, that it was born in politics, and you're looking at the individual who's raised millions of dollars on starting this initiative. congratulations, mr. cooper. >> perhaps the most famous transgender person in the world is caitlin jenner. this. which bathroom should she use? >> this is the problem. we shouldn't be getting involved in these issues. house bill 2 is exactly what it does. it gets us involved in these issues, and we should not. because not only is it hurting our economy, but it's embarrassing our state. the governor just admitted it earlier. they didn't have to do this. they should not have done it. there are cities all over this country that have these kinds of ordina you should trust local governments to make these decisions. >> not caitlin jenner where the voters rejected it by 60% and where the most recent ncaa basketball championship was played with no objection. where she should go, in the private sector in north carolina, she can go wherever the private sector wants to go. if she's going to a shower facility at unc-chapel hill she's going to use the men's shower. >> okay. >> i'm going to change subjects. we're going to go to the economy. mr. cooper, you'll get this question. mr. mccrory is running on a carolina comeback. unemployment has been cut in half. income is on the rise. if voters care about just economic performance, why shouldn't voters re-elect him? >> well, the governor wants to be carolina comeback governor. i want to be a come back to we need paypal to come back. we need the jobs to come back. we need the ncaa to come back. you go ask everyday working people whether they have seen a carolina comeback, and most of them will tell you they are working longer and harder and for less money than they did before the recession. and they'd be right. because wage growth is stagnant. the middle class is not seeing the gains from the growing when many people have taxes in the middle class that are up because of him and legislative leadership. and he continues to say that house bill 2 is not hurting our economy. that's wrong. >> he just did a commercial where he's saying no more social issues. he's brought it up four times already. no more social issues. let's talk about the economy. unemployment was at a record 9.4% when i came into office. under easley and perdue, the two governors that you strongly supported for election. 12 years of extreme high taxes. we had the highest income tax and the highest corporate tax in the southeast. even south carolina was beatin' us for jobs, roy. when i came into office, we lowered our income tax, our debt that we owed to the federal government. $2.6 billion. if you had been governor, you would have borrowed another $2 billion, and we would have been $4 billion in debt, and then you would have put another tax on the employers of north carolina and drove unemployment up even more. okay. >> this is the philosophy that you followed as a state senator. this is the philosophy that you follow with your fellow leaders. >> thank you, mr. mccrory. >> it's got to end. >> go ahead, mr. coer a tax cut. he came through for the corporations and for those at the top. but everyday working people got tax increases. in 67 different ways, governor mccrory has raised taxes on middle income families. and literally we're talking about literally from birth to death. the next time you go to a movie back-to-school weekend, you look at that receipt, and the taxes are courtesy of governor mccrory. he continues to tax the middle class. that's why the middle class is hurting. >> thank you, mr. cooper. 30 seconds, mr. mccrory. >> the income tax was high 7%. now we've reduced to below 5%. the business and corporate tax was 6%. now it's down to 3%, and we're recruiting businesses. 300,000 new private sec mr. cooper, if you become governor, are you going to raise the income tax again, raise the corporate tax again? answer that question. are you going to raise those taxes again? because you were against our tax reform. yes or no? are you going to raise those taxes again and be less competitive with tennessee and virginia and the rest of the nation? >> i'll let you each have 30 seconds since you're engaging. go ahead, mr. cooper. >> we do not have to raise taxes in order to fix what is wrong with our economy. is hurting. wage growth is stagnant, governor, whether you like it or not. you, with your income tax and corporate tax cuts, you have mostly benefitted those at the top, and the statistics show that you're leaving out the middle class. this is why you're having trouble being honest with your record, governor. and we have seen it time and time again. >> all right. final 30 seconds, mr. mccrory. >> it's mr. cooper that's raising half a million dollars at goldman sachs. goldman sachs doesn't care the middle class of north carolina. it's mr. cooper that's going to california and san francisco and raising millions of dollars. the people in san francisco don't care about the middle class of north carolina. tell them where you're getting your money, and it's not from people who care for north carolina and our economy. >> all right. want to move to teacher pay. mr. mccrory, you get this question first. you said the average teacher salary next year will be over $50,000, but according to the north carolina public school pay bachelor's degree doesn't make $50,000 until the 25th year of teaching or 20th year if they have a master's degree. how can you raise teacher salaries early on so you don't see teachers move to other states? >> that's what we did. in my first year, my second year as governor, i put together a group of the best teachers in the united states of america because under roy cooper and mike easley and beverly perdue's beginning teacher pay raises for five to seven years. they were stuck at $30,000 a year. it was this governor through recommendations from teachers, roy, who said before you give pay raises to anyone else, help those teachers with one to seven years of experience. we did just that. we've raised their pay to $35,000 a year, which is still not enough. but it's $5,000 more than beverly perdue and mike easley did with no objection from you whatsoever during all those candidate for governor. that's progress. i'm the only one here on this stage who has a teaching degree and understands what it's like to stay in front of a class and teach kids. i know how hard it is. and i'm proud of our teachers. and this governor's shown them respect and given them pay raises that they deserve. >> 60 seconds, mr. cooper. >> my mom was a public school teacher. i have seen how hard they work, and i understand the challenges that they face. just like his record time and time again, the being honest about these figures. they are contrived, and they do not reflect reality. the fact is we are 41st in teacher pay, and 44th in per-student expenditure. and we've got thousands of teachers leaving north carolina for better pay and more respect. we have teacher assistants being fired. go listen to teachers and parents and ask if governor better difference in the classroom. see what they say. try to find a teacher who is making $50,000 a year. governor, you need to be straight with people about public education. you need to get your facts straight and to represent your record correctly. >> you're about as straight as another trial lawyer who became a politician in north carolina, and that's john edwards, because you're fooling the jury right now in the facts, not rhetorics, say that this is the governor that did help the there's still a lot more to do. and i'm extremely proud of not only did we help the teachers with pay. we also have a 15,000 to $16,000 a year for benefits for our teachers. we've increased, tripled the rate of money for every school for supplies and books, something that was clearly missing under the easley, perdue administrations you supported. >> 30 seconds. >> when i was the senate moved teacher pay from 42nd in the country to 21st in the country in four years. governor mccrory has had four years. it is now 41st in teacher pay. that is wrong for our state. what i will do is invest in education. i won't just talk about it and try to distort my record. i will invest in early childhood. i'll make sure our classrooms have resources. and i'll get our teacher pay to the national average. we've done it before. we can do it again. >> stick to this 30 second follows. i want each of you to respond in 30 seconds. mr. mccrory, you said it's still not enough. why not do it all? >> i had to rebuild the economy where we finally have a surplus. by the way, with a surplus and a rainy day fund, something three weeks ago, the attorney general recommended that a rainy day fund was too high. a rainy day fund was too high. ladies and gentlemen, we've had a lot of rain lately. we've had a lot of rain lately. you were telling people we side. it's fiscal responsibility. by the way, another thing you deceived the people on, when i came into office, teacher pay was 48th. we've reduced it to 41. we've reduced it to 41. next year's teacher pay with our pay raises will be in the low 30s in north carolina. >> a twist on it. where do you get the money? you want to immediately give these raises. where do you get the money? >> i have to respond to -- >> go ahead. >> -- the question first, because when you're talking about disaster relief mccrory took $500,000 directly out of the disaster relief fund, and you know what it's for? house bill 2. this is about -- he wanted money for lawyers for house bill 2 and took $500,000 out of the disaster relief fund. what we do is make education a priority. the governor's priority is continued corporate tax giveaways. what we have to do is put it at want to do to make sure we get our teachers to the national average, and i can do that. i've done it before. >> 30 seconds. >> he just did not tell the truth. i have not spent any money on hb-2 of -- we haven't spent one dollar of the disaster relief money. we were approved to by the legislature and i made a statement we will not spend any of that money. he knows that. he's being deceptive to the public of north carolina. he's being deceptive to the jury. and you should know better. having a law misproof like that, to not tell the truth. it's exactly what's wrong with politics today. >> the governor could have vetoed this legislation that took the $500,000 after the disaster relief fund. he did not -- he did not veto. >> it's still in the disaster relief fund. by the way, it's being used for disasters, which he spoke to a group recently just two weeks ago and said we have too much money in our reserves. what if i told you as families much. go ahead and spend it. don't worry about a crisis in the future. if he'd been governor for the last year, we would not have the reserves to deal with this hurricane. >> enthuthank you, mr. mccrory. i'll give you 30 seconds. >> i grew up in eastern north carolina. as a state senator, i helped push through the disaster relief funds for hurricane floyd. and we had the foresight to make sure the surplus was there. i support a surplus. we made sure that we helped people who hurricane floyd. we're all going to have to pool together and do this again. we shouldn't be taking money out of the disaster relief fund. >> i'm going to move along. a new set of 60-second responses for both of you. mr. mccrory, i'll start with you. >> sure. >> you signed hb-2 into law. you signed two measures restricting abortion access in the state even after pledging in a debate four years ago that you weren't going to add any more restrictions to abortion. are you surprised four years defined as a social conservative? >> first of all, i need to correct you. if you consider having to have a doctor make sure that they don't do an abortion after five months, that's not a restriction on the individual. that's the law. and all it requires is the doctor to make sure they have a record of that. it did not impact at all the access to an abortion. and i made sure that every law that's passed constitutional standard, which texas did not due. i might add also, though, we had two abortion clinics in north carolina that were treating women so poorly, they weren't cleaning the floor, utensils, or the tools used for an abortion. not even cleaning them in between abortions. that is so cruel. and we took care of it. but i made sure that all rules women's health and also fit the spirit of the law, and that's exactly what we've done, and that's why there's been no challenges to our abortion laws. >> 60 seconds. >> this is another example of governor mccrory distorting his own record. chuck, you're right. on the debate stage, just like this one, in 2012, when he was running for governor, he promised he would put no more restrictions on a woman's right to choose. yet, he supports legislation that puts state government in the exam room between a woman and her doctor. now, you talk about a restriction. his legislation requires that a doctor send a woman's ultrasound to state government. now, how do you feel about the policy? we don't need state government this is the kind of restriction that he promised that he would not put in place that he did, and now he's coming around trying to say that's not a restriction. i think people would say that it is, governor, and that you are distorting your record. >> 30 seconds. >> why didn't you, over 14 years, 16 years as attorney general, protect the women that were being abused in asheville and charlotte in these clinics? it took my secretary of and human resources, dr. wos, and you stood on the sideline when these women were treated not like women should be treated. i'm proud we took action. we reopened those facilities. that's the law and constitution. i respect that. >> 30 seconds, mr. cooper. >> this is another example of governor mccrory putting social issues ahead of the best the safety of our citizens. you've got house bill 2. you've got these abortion issues. you've got refusal to expand medicaid. what he continues to do is to put these right-wing social ideological issues ahead of the best interests of our citizens. that's where he and i differ. >> all right. we have time. we're going to take a quick break here for a public service announcement from the north broadcasters. when we come back, we're going to have questions on policing, criminal justice reform, and maybe a little presidential politics. we'll be right back. >> so many call north carolina home. living here puts you in prime adventure territory. residents enjoy 300 miles of pristine beaches and some of the country's most beautiful old grove hardwood forests and and everywhere in between, broadcasters in north carolina are proud to provide free over-the-air programming that educates, informs, and entertains. the north carolina association of broadcasters leads the nation on educating the public and businesses about the uses and values of broadcasting through the north carolina association of broadcasters, over 300 radio and television members support our local community and our state by connecting viewers to their worlds. the north carolina association of broadcasters educati tonight's debate possible as a public service to the local communities they serve. >> and we are back here live with the two candidates for governor of north carolina, governor pat mccrory, republican, and attorney general roy cooper, a democrat. mr. cooper, you were quoted as saying the state crime lab you've overseen for over a the average time is 7 1/2 months. this is called excellent service. should we be concerned about your direction as governor? >> this is about leadership, finding a problem, accepting responsibility for that problem and solving it. when i became attorney general, there were over 5,000 dna rape kits sitting on local law enforcement shelves. we also had years of investigation. i ordered the independent investigation and made sure we got rid of that backlog and worked to make sure all of our scientists were certified in the lab. and it is providing good service across our state. when you're talking about crime labs, governor mccrory was mayor of charlotte when they had a crime lab. and they destroyed -- governor mccrory's crime lab destroyed of them in open cases. and governor mccrory did not fix the problem. when he left the mayor's office, it was still happening. and i'm sure we're going to hear him blame it on somebody else just like he usually does. >> all right. mr. mccrory, 60 seconds. >> um, the reason charlotte had its own crime lab is because attorney general easley and attorney general cooper couldn't do their job. not only did charlotte have to have i now fayetteville's going to build its own crime lab. greensboro has its own crime lab. he says he's doing his job. why is iredell county thinking about getting a crime lab? they're fired of waiting. the governor's job is a huge job. i have one department with 16,000 employees. just one of the departments. if you can't handle the crime lab after 14 or 16 years, how are you going to handle all of state government? it's been a disaster. you talk to sheriffs. is you contracted it out. now the contractors have backlogs. if you talk to any lawyer who's got a -- who's driven a dwi in north carolina and gets caught, no problem. it will take half a year or a year to get the blood test back. his trial attorney friends who are giving him thousands and thousands of dollars love the crime lab just as it is. >> >> 0 seconds. >> another distortion. the charlotte crime lab was started in 1969. so governor mccrory once is trying to blame somebody else. crime labs are critical. we, with the north carolina state crime lab, have put thousands of rapists and murderers in jail. they've also helped to clear innocent people across north carolina. they are working hard with law enforcement every single day, and it is critical that we consider the funding, because more and more evidence continues to come in. >> you have 30 seconds. continue the funding. frankly, as governor, i have asked for one email. i haven't gotten one email requesting help for the crime lab. he's only done 14 emails in 16 years as attorney general. you'd think if you want to improve the crime lab, you'd send emails and say help me with this crime lab. you haven't done that. there are no emails saying we've got a problem. help us fix it together. >> all right. >> may i respond? >> okay. i'll give you 30 and give him >> we met with governor mcc mccmcc mccrory's budget director and budget team. every single time before the legislature. and governor mccrory has all of a sudden become interested in the crime lab issue during these last few months. it is critical that there be resources for the state crime lab to make sure that those crimes are solved, and governor mccrory has not been doing his job in providing those resources. >> final 30. >> actually, i'm the governor hopefully a development of a western lab because the western part of north carolina has been just suffering because of the lack of productivity from your crime lab which you've been responsible for. by the way, before that, you were responsible for the sbi before it was transferred to the governor. the head of his sbi was a political appointee. it was basically a political hack that he hired, head of the sbi. when i took over the sbi, i put people who had actual experience in law enforcement, not making it a political organization. >> all right. i'm going to stay on thess mr. mccrory, this summer you signed a law saying police are not required to release footage from their body cameras or other technology unless there is a court order. it would have barred releasing video of keith lamont scott's death. governor, don't we need more transparency for the police? >> we have three -- we have several things we need to balance, chuck. first of all, we need to balance constitutional rights of those who are being investigated. i know cnbc and cnn and fox would love to show the video right away. it helps your ratings. but the fact of the matter is we've got a criminal investigation going on right now. and both the d.a., the sbi and the charlotte police department, as we have with other shootings, have to go through an investigation. let me correct you in your question. it doesn't deny the release of it. it allows a third party to make that decision, politicians shouldn't be making that decision, whether it be a mayor or a governor or a d.a. it should be an impartial judge who determines where the constitutional rights of those being investigated, that are being seen in the video, versus the right of the public to know. and that's exactly what this new law does. i think it's a perfect law. we're going to see some possible gaps. but it's a vast improvement. we had no rules before. and i'm pleased that it got anything. >> mr. -- thank you, mr. mccrory. mr. cooper? >> i'm grateful to the men and women of law enforcement who serve honorably and risk their lives every day to keep us safe. i'm also mindful that there are so many communities out there who feel targeted and they yearn to be heard and they yearn for respect. what we need is a governor who's going to work to make sure we have and part of mutual respect is transparency. we need to make sure that the community trusts what law enforcement is doing. that is why i said there were significant problems with this law, because i believe that the records and these videotapes should be open. clearly, there are some times when it should be kept presumption should be it's public, because the more transparency you have, the more mutual respect you're going to continue to develop. >> can this is typical roy cooper. after the law is passed, he expresses concern by the way after a shooting, he expresses concern. in front of the f.o.p., he said he was in favor of it, trying to get the endorsement of the federation of police. i got that endorsement and i'm very proud to have not only their endorsement major police organizations in north carolina. i care about the victims and also those persons being investigated, and it needs to be taken out of politics. >> all right. thank you, mr. mccrory. mr. cooper, 30 seconds. >> i have strong support from law enforcement across north carolina. again, governor mccrory's story is not true. what we have to do is to make sure we earn this mutual respect. law enforcement needs training. law enforcement needs support. like the communities that they protect and serve. and as governor, i'm going to be a strong law enforcement governor, but we also need to make sure that our communities are respected and that they work with law enforcement with community policing in other ways to make sure our communities are safe. >> thank you. all of these will be 30 second follows for all of you. mr. cooper, i'll start with you. in the first presidential debate hillary clinton said i think implicit bias is a everyone, including police. do you agree with her? >> well, i think that police definitely needs more training. i think all of us have biases that sometimes conflict with our jobs. we need training. we need to make sure that law enforcement has the resource that it needs, and we also need to emphasize community policing. i think when law enforcement you have safer law enforcement and better law enforcement all the way around. >> okay. do you accept the idea that there's implicit bias? >> i think there's bias in all of us. it's not always racial bias. it may be bias of how we dress, how we look, the environment we might be in. and those are also tools for our police officers to determine what action to take. and what we have to do -- i agree with the attorney general. we need more training for our police officers. there's never enough years, i helped institute community policing. community policing is vital, that our police officers get out of their cars, walk the nabs neighborhoods. but to attack the police officers the way ms. clinton did and our president has done in his first year in office was totally inappropriate. >> let me ask you both the same term black lives matter mean to you? i'll start with you, mr. cooper. 30 seconds. >> well, i think it's a statement that is true. i think what we need to do is to make sure we continue this effort to understand that many communities of color feel targeted. they feel discriminated against. and what they want to be is heard and what they want to be is respected. so i think there are many in law enforcement who would absolutely that we have to do. >> well, i personally was an admirer of martin luther king, who believed we should be judged by the content of our character, not by the color of our skin, and i think all lives should matter. it's our heart inside that matters, and we should value every single life, but we do have to recognize the anger that communities have within how they interact with law enforcement, but at the same time, we've got police officers who every day leave their families home not knowing if they're going to come back. and the officers that were most recently involved in shootings, they had no idea that was going to happen to them that day. >> thank you, mr. mccrory. >> their lives were also changed. >> let me move here. there's obviously a lot of national politics impacting this state on friday. mr. mccrory, you condemned donald trump's comments about women. many of your followers withdrew your support completely. why didn't you? >> when my parents moved me to jamestown, my family, brothers and sisters, jamestown, north carolina, my first day in class, i didn't say yes, ma'am to the teacher, and they washed my mouth out with soap for something so minor but so important in showing respect to our teachers. sometimes when i see the presidential candidate, mr. trump, he needs to have his mouth washed out with soap and teachers always said don't tell a lie. and she lies an awful lot about the -- about the emails, about benghazi, about other factors. and maybe she needs to look at a bar of soap next time she doesn't tell the truth. we have some issues, but i'm voting for the candidates that best support my viewpoints even though i disagree on issues like immigration, obamacare is a total the attorney general continues to praise is obamacare. it's a disaster. >> okay. >> if you're a middle class individual. >> thank you. mr. cooper, 60. >> it's hard to believe that governor mccrory continues to support a presidential candidate who condones sexual assault, who has admitted that he has done that, who has continued to demean women. governor mccrory, this is the first time that i've heard you donald trump. you've gone to his rallies. you've made jokes about house bill 2 on stage. you -- when a gold star family was demeaned by donald trump, you didn't say anything. when women were demeaned by donald trump, you didn't say anything. governor mccrory and donald trump are a lot alike. they both have trouble with the facts, and they both engage in divisive rhetoric. it's not good for our state, not good for our country. >> >> i don't know where that divisive rhetoric comes from. sadly, we have to make difficult decision. your first year as attorney general had to make difficult decisions to vote for bill clinton. i'm sure you were uneasy about things bill clinton did but you had to make a choice and balance those character traits. i have to do the same thing, and it's a sad commentary that we both had to make those decisions. >> 30 seconds, mr. cooper. for our country, and governor mccrory continues to go across the state and attend his rallies and continues to support him. i think that's wrong. i would call on him today to withdraw his support from donald trump, considering this type of language that's so demeaning to women and actually says that he has committed crimes. governor mccrory still supports him. that's wrong. >> a mr. cooper, as you know, a majority of north carolinians do not think hillary clinton is honest and trustworthy. do you? >> i think she is much more trustworthy than donald trump. and i believe the secretary will help to keep our country more safe and more secure and she certainly is not going to be a dangerous president like donald trump, who governor mccrory supports. >> 30 seconds on this, on donald is he a role model for kids? >> no, sir his vulgar, verbal outbursts. i hate it. >> anything make him a role mod missouri. >> where he stands on things like the syrian refugee disaster. i talked to one of the top leaders of the fbi. they kind of laughed when they said they're backgrounds of the syrian refugees. no, they aren't. there's no embassy to check. there's no qualification. so when hillary clinton says they're doing a venting process of these syrian refugees coming to our state, the fbi is not being told where they are. >> thank you, mr. mccrory. i'm move to health care. mr. cooper, 60 seconds, former president bill clinton referred to the affordable care act or obamacare as the craziest things one insurer is offering. is obamacare broken? >> that's the reason there's only one insurer on the exchange, is because governor mccrory and the legislative leadership have fault having a state exchange here in north carolina where more people can get health insurance. they've also withdrawn money that could help educate people and could help insurance companies to become competitive. the worst thing that governor mccrory and the legislative leadership has done, they have refused to accept the billions of dollars, billions with a "b," that we've already paid to washington that could come back to north carolina and expand medicaid to hundreds of thousands of north carolinians, and here we are again, governor mccrory putting the social issues ahead of the best interests of our state. casic in ohio, governor mike pence, they saw the expansion in their state helped to create tens of thousands of good paying jobs, helped private insurers, and mr. mccrory continues to say no. >> the blame game is coming. i've never been blamed for obamacare. i had nothing to do with the legislation. i did try to get you to fight the legislation, representing the state of nort and you as attorney general refused to fight obamacare because you thought it would be fantastic for the united states of america. it's been a total failure. if you talk to any middle class business person right now, you're seeing -- if you talk to any family right now, you've had a nice setup with health insurance for the state of north carolina for 26 years. your own state plan, it's free. you talk to someone with obamacare, my gosh, you ought to get on obamacare right now. $30,000 a year. you've gotten too used to the government health insurance that you're now guaranteed until you're 65. if you feel so good about obamacare, get on it and get off the state plan that we have right now. >> 30 seconds, mr. cooper. >> it is incredible to me that with this policy already set at the federal level that the governor cannot accept the billions in tax money we've already paid. this is our tax money that could come back to north carolina and people and take pressure off the small businesses. take pressure off private employers who see a benefit. the other states who have done this have seen a benefit in their insurance premiums, but governor mccrory's got to put that ideology, he's got to continue to talk about it. >> come on, roy. admit it's a failure. it's okay to admit it's a failure. that's okay. by the way, i do -- i do agree in some aspect that medicaid, we're expanding medicaid services for alzheimer's patients, those people who can't help themselves. those are the people who i want to emphasize, those people who can't help themselves. i personally met with president obama in the white house, in the oval office, and encouraged him to allow us to have a north carolina plan, not a washington, d.c. plan, which you want. >> okay. >> i'm extremely sad right now that blue cross and blue shield is the only -- >> your time is up. i'll give you 30. >> we can make a north carolina plan. we can expand medicaid in a north carolina way. that opportunity is there. and for him to talk about saying that you're not giving health insurance to people who need it, this is the perfect opportunity with the tax money that we've already paid, but he continues to say no because of ideological reasons. >> you're not going to get on obamacare and you're going to keep your government plan you've state of north carolina. >> very quickly, answer the medicaid question. why won't you expand it? >> we don't know what the cost of 10% will be to the taxpayers of north carolina. i think it's irresponsible to enter into something not knowing the cost. "wall street journal" is showing all those states he mentioned, their costs are much greater than anticipated. i had to inherit a $525 million misforecast on medicaid spending from the perdue administration. >> okay. >> and we had to fix that >> all right. i want to get one more -- i want to get one more topic in here. i think we have an idea on where you stand on expanding medicaid. i want to go quickly to voter i.d. if you can keep your answers quick. a court said the law targeted african americans with almost surgical precision. obviously, it's been thrown out. do you regret signing the bill? >> absolutely not. in fact, one thing i'd like to compliment the attorney general was regarding sudafed, because we were having a terrible -- we both agree on this issue of drug addiction. he passed a law requiring i.d. when you get a sudafed. if i.d. is good enough for sudafed, i think it's good enough for the people of north carolina to vote. because anyone who thinks with tens of millions of dollars on the ground, as you know, chuck, in north carolina, if you don't think there's potential for voter fraud, you're digging your head in the sand, because as you know in the history of the united stat, west virginia, in texas, voter fraud occurs. and we need to do everything we can to make sure it doesn't happen. and if you don't look for it, you're not going to find it. >> 60 seconds. and this is it. so go ahead. >> the governor knows that this legislation was much broader than a voter i.d. law, although this was the strictest in the country. it had to do with early voting, the ease of early voting. when the three-judge panel in the fourth circuit said that this law intentionally discriminates against minorities and students, it was time to stop. but governor mccrory continues to use taxpayer money to pay for attorneys, to continue to appeal this. of course, he lost. it's shameful for the governor to keep pushing this legislation. it's wrong for our state. >> we've got time -- you're both going to get more time here in a minute for your statements, because that concludes all of my questions. i have more, i promise you. if they'd give us more time, we'd do it. you both get 90 seconds for your closing statement. mr. cooper, by virtue of a coin toss, you go first. then mr. mccrory. >> thank you, chuck. thank you to the broadcasters. thank you, governor mccrory, for joining me. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, kristin, my wife kristin, and family, who are here today. thanks to all of you for watching this debate at home. working to help the flood victims. even though we disagree on a lot of things, we agree we have to pull together and help them. some of them are in nash county where i grew up. i've always been proud to call north carolina home and i still am. but over the last few years, some things have changed that we've heard about during this debate. for decades, you could travel across this country and tell people you were from north carolina, and the questions would be about our great or our mountains or our beaches. now the question is, what in the world is going on in north carolina? well, we can fix that. but the first thing we've got to do is recognize the problems that we face. we have to make education a priority. 41st in the nation is not good enough. we need to get to at least the national average. and we need a good jobs governor. a governor who will work to bring better paying jobs to our away with discriminatory laws like house bill 2. and we need a governor who is going to work to restore north carolina's great reputation. and i plan to do that. thank you so much. god bless you. >> mr. mccrory. >> i concur that our prayers are with everyone tonight. i'm going right back to the emergency operations center to work with mike and our other team members and our prayers are with people tonight, especially in kinston and greenville, up and down the tar river. this is going to be a tough next 72 hours. i would like to thank roy cooper for running for governor. it takes courage with a family to do this. i know with my family, my wife, it's extremely hard thing to do. roy, only a politician like roy cooper, however, would consider record job increases, record tax increases, record job creation failure. this is leadership we've never seen in 3 1/2 years. we cannot go back to the leadership of easley, perdue and cooper. let's continue this great progress forward. we do live in the best state of the united states of america. >> i want to thank you both for a very civil debate. it's now up to the voters and it is up to you. don't forget to vote. this public service program was brought to you by the north carolina association of broadcasters educational foundation. i thank them for the privilege of moderating this debate. i'm chuck todd from nbc news. hey, honey. what you doing? just going through your credit card bills. uh, yeah... coming! nobody else is home, molly! have a seat. this is becoming, like, an every month thing for you. well, now that we're a one-income family, we really have got to watch our spending. hey, i've been really good lately-- i've only had one palm reading. what? see? madam olga said you'd be upset. you're hilarious. (giggles) look, i was going over these bills, and i think there's a few more areas where we can cut back. let's hear it. well, how about this "wax on, wax off" place-- is that a car wash? 'cause i could do that in the driveway. that's my bikini wax; you want to do that in the driveway? we'll file that under "medical expenses."