attacking mariupol. lloyd austin and secretary of state anthony blinken are set to visit the region today, according to the ukrainian president. another hour of velshi begins right now. good morning to you, it is sunday, april the 24th. it is day 60 of russia's unprovoked invasion of ukraine. i'm ali velshi, live in new york city. 4700 miles away, in kyiv, ukraine, the united states defense secretary lloyd austin and the u.s. secretary of state anthony blinken are set to be the highest ranking american officials to visit the country since the start of the war 60 days ago. that is according to the ukrainian president, volodymyr zelenskyy, who announced his visit. it's not been confirmed by american officials. so lewinsky says he plans to discuss, quote, the military assistance we need, and quote, with the u.s. officials. then, secretary austin is heading to germany for pronounced meetings on ukraine with foreign counterparts. today's orthodox easter sunday, the holiest day for many russians and ukrainians. many of whom share a fate. however, the fighting you continues, as ukrainian efforts for a holiday truce were rejected by the russians. russian president vladimir putin attended midnight mass in moscow. but, as ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy has said quote, god will not forgive what has been done in ukraine, not today, not tomorrow, never, there will be judgment. so lynskey also questioned, quote, what kind of god they believe in and response to yesterday's russian cruise missile attack on a neighborhood in the ancient seaside city of odessa, which ukrainian officials say killed at least eight people including a three month old baby and wounded at least 18 more. there will be no easter for the two children reportedly killed this morning in donetsk, or for the thousands upon thousands of people dead in the ruins city of mariupol. more than 100,000 civilians reportedly remained starving and suffering in that city. as one recently escapes event said, quote, hell is what's happening here. satellite images reveal what might be another mass grave on the outskirts of mariupol, that's one in a village just east of the city, 12 miles east. it's expected to be smaller than the enormous road pits entrenches discovered in the village of men who, just west of the city. those were about 1000 feet, long more than three football fields. in which ukrainian officials believe 9000 bodies could be inside. yesterday, russia resumed its assault by both air and ground on the ads of stall steel factory. it's the last holdout of fighters and mary opal. about 2000 civilians mainly women and children are also hold up in the bunkers within that complex, according to ukrainian officials. that comes despite putin's public statement days ago that russia would not attack the factory, but would blockade it. it also comes as reports indicate that fighting might be continuing pockets of mariupol as well, contrary to putin's pronouncement that the city was fully under russian control except for that steel plant, azovstal. heading west from mariupol, ukraine says it's destroyed a major russian command post in kherson, a city just north of crimea. which has been under russian control since the early days of the war. ukraine claims about 50 senior russian officers were at the post at the time of the attack, with one official saying, quote, their fate is unknown but i think it must be miserable. ukraine's military later said that the two russian generals were killed. another critically wounded. meaning at least nine russian generals are now claimed to have been killed in theater so far. that is a staggeringly high number. kherson has been they staging point for russian forces who are heading west and nikolai, of a strategically vital city that is still under ukrainian control despite being under attack since the beginning of the war. joining me now is nbc's raf sanchez, he's live from ukraine. raf, one is the latest on what you're hearing, particularly about this visit by secretary austin and secretary blinken? it's four in the afternoon where you are right now and we haven't heard anything yet. >> ali, four in the afternoon on this orthodox easter sunday here in ukraine. we have not yet seen any side of secretary blinken, nor secretary austin. but that doesn't mean that they are not in kyiv, this visit has been planned in utmost secrecy for security reasons. the obvious reason concerns that the russians might literally target these senior members of president biden's cabinet. but less, obvious that the russians might try to disrupt this visit one way or another, trying to prevent president zelenskyy from getting this face to face meeting with senior american officials, that he has wanted for so long. presidents ellen ski says the main topic for discussion will be weapons. he wants to explain what his forces need, as a fight on that enormous front in the east. if he wants to explain how quickly they are needed. now, european leaders have been making trips to kyiv for weeks now. this is a very symbolic moment. as the first senior americans arrive, assuming they are indeed on schedule, we don't quite know the itinerary of their trip. president zelenskyy has expressed interest in president biden comes one day, that is not something the white house says will happen anytime soon. ali, you mentioned that deadly missile strike in odessa yesterday. eight people killed, including a young woman named valerie culloden and her three month old baby daughter kira. ali, kira's life was short and i want to give you the timeline. she was born on january 4th, on february 24th the war broke out in her country. and on april 24th she was killed by one of vladimir putin's cruise missiles. more than half a far short life was lived over the course of this war. now, people are in churches all across this country today, from odessa the mariupol to kyiv to here in lviv. they are celebrating the same easter that the russian counterparts are celebrating, but churches here have too often been targets. ali, you've been here in lviv, you know that there are sandbags around the churches here. that some of the statues of the virgin mary are in cages for their own protection, to keep them safe from russian bombs. president zelenskyy was at the main cathedral in kyiv earlier today. he said his mid entire country is united in a single prayer. great lord, save ukraine. ali? >> yeah, those charges have been busy for the past 60 days because are holding a lot of funerals as well. of people who are killed in this war. raf, thank you very much again. we will come right back to you as soon as you get information if you do, about austin and blinken in ukraine. raf sanchez, for us in lviv today. joining us now is thomas elvis, former president of estonia. estonia's former ambassador to america and to canada, and a member of the munich security conference advisory board. mr. ilves, great to see you again. i've been relying on your expertise a lot during this war, but there is something specific that has happened, the parliaments of estonia and latvia have adopted resolutions that have accused russia of genocide in ukraine. this is something the rest of the world is lowered to do. genocide, unlike war crimes, is very, very hard to prove. but your two countries have decided that this is an important thing to do. why? >> i think the problem is that other people maybe don't read what the russians are saying, which is complete and utter demonization of ukrainians, urging soldiers not to treat ukrainians as people. and we see the results. which is that, if you dehumanize to people where you occupy their towns and their cities, you end up doing the horrific, committing the horrific acts that have now been documented in so many places in ukraine. when you decided that an entire nation consists of less than human people, that is genocide. what we have, basically, is an army that is pulled it doesn't matter what you do, you can go and do anything you want. torture, rape, murder, kill. certainly enough genocide scholars have come down on the side of this being genocide, and if genocides colors as recently as in the washington post did, then why don't we call it what it is. i think this reluctance on the part of some governments to call it what it is is actually disturbing, more than anything else. >> one of the interesting things about this is vladimir putin, he's had various excuses for invading ukraine. including the protection of russian-speaking people. this is relevant to you and estonia and latvia, the neighboring baulking countries, because there are russians all over europe, all over the, world including america. so, that's not a very sensible argument. but one of his other arguments, that goes back sometime, is the expansion of nato including countries like yours, up to and including the russian border. we now have the result of finland and sweden, possibly, you can see them at the top of the map there, finland and sweden are not nato countries. and there is now talk about them becoming nato countries, which would be a terrible outcome for russia. >> well, this is an amazing accomplishment. that since the establishment of nato in 1949, finland and sweden have rigorously maintained their neutrality and refused to join nato, even the people have said well, it would kind of be a good idea to join. it took vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine to switch what has been, in the case of finland, almost 80 years of neutrality. in the case of sweden, neutrality since 1809. so, we're seeing 210 years of neutrality being thrown out by this attack. of, course the russians haven't helped by constantly threatening and in fact conducting attack operations, or exercises, rather, against sweden. and so, this is a fundamental, fundamentally a result of putin's policies. in doing so, he has also doubled the amount of border territory russia would have with nato. so, they have not yet joined, they are applying probably in may or june. it will take another half a year or so to become full members. but, when that happens, instead of having 800 miles of border with nato, which is why it russia has today, it will have double that. this is what happens when you don't really think through your policies. and, as you rightly mentioned, using nato expansion as an excuse kind of seems to have backfired. >> yeah. i had a great interview with bill browder a few minutes ago, i was asking whether his new book was banned in russia. of course it is. he made it interesting comment to me, he said he couldn't get a publisher in germany either. he can't get a publisher intervening for his book that is critical of russia, which surprised me. but it fits in with something you are saying the other day about the fact that you would like germany to be a lot clearer about where they stand on this matter with russia. a lot of it has to do with the fact that germany has a pipeline, where it gets its gas directly from russia. but germany has been slower off the mark on this than you would prefer. >> well, if you look at estonia, littlest only a with 1.3 million people has donated twice as much in military material, measured in dollars, and germany. which is 60 times the size of estonia, with a population of 80 million. so, yes, it would be nice if they would step up to the plate. but, in fact, they have been backpedalling on any kind of assistance, even when they promised something and then later on they won't do it. there is this question of why is a nato ally being so recalcitrant. you have to keep in mind, we've seen this before, nord stream 2, the pipeline we've been discussing, the agreement was signed a year after russia invaded and annexed part of ukraine, in 2014. they did that in 2015. really, what happens in the neighborhood is not overly concerning to germany. right now we see the same problem that is not on the radar screen. which of course makes other nato allies wonder how committed they are to the defense of other nato countries, when in fact, even in the case of what we call genocide, these horrific war crimes, there is a reluctance to do anything or help in any way. >> president ilves, good to see you again. toomas hendrik ilves it's a former president of the republic of estonia. coming up, the velshi banned book club is back with a very special feature. dear martin by nick stone, there have been calls to remove the bestseller from classrooms, libraries and reading list all over the united states. why? parents say the poignant and tragically realistic story of a black high school senior is too distressing for their own high school aged children to read. and, a year ago today the u.s. pledged an ambitious goal to slash greenhouse gas emissions. today climate change has become a backburner issue, as a world literally heats up. we're going to talk with governor jay inslee on his fight to set new standards on carbon emission reduction technologies. and, as of wednesday, the national average for a regular gallon of gas is $4.11. if you put it in yourself. that might be a painful number for many numbers, it's not nearly as painful as this reality. every dollar that goes toward russian oil and gas is funding the murder and assault of innocent ukrainians. high prices of gas are the cost of democracy. more, right after the break. democracy more, right after the break. more, right after the break. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. >> as you, know earth day was on friday. exactly one year ago today, president biden hosted a gathering of some 40 world leaders. covid was still raging, so the meeting was virtual. but on the screen you saw leaders of the free world. like canada's justin trudeau, the then chancellor of germany angler merkel, emmanuel macron, who is facing election today, scott morrison of australia. sharing the screen where some world leaders who are a little bit less committed to social justice, equality and democracy. india's knee andra monee, who support sporting a wild beer these days. the saudi king was there. china's xi jinping, and russian president vladimir putin. today, some of these leaders probably wouldn't be caught dead in the same room with vladimir putin, let alone on a zoom. but a year ago was a simpler time. the agenda of this two-day meeting was to strategize around tackling the climate crisis. one year ago, joe biden marked his first earthy day as president, convening the leaders of the world's greatest economies for a summit on global warming. coincidentally, the world's greatest economies are also the world's biggest culprits in the crime of the century the continued and deliberate deterioration of planet earth. biden is the moment to announce that the u.s. would nearly double its goal for cutting greenhouse gas emissions. but a year later, biden's most crucial climate proposals are stalled in congress. now the world's attention is on the war in ukraine. all the, wildfires continue to burn, and temperatures continue to, increase c levels are on the rise and weather is getting more and more extreme. but in a way, this war has helped to jump-start the conversation about climate change once again. because at the core of vladimir putin's power it's mother nature's ultimate kryptonite, fossil fuel. russia is one of the world's top fossil fuel producers and exporters. in 2021, revenues from oil and natural gas made up 45% of russia's federal budget. that's according to the international energy agency. according to bloomberg, at the start of this war, russia was earning 300 and $50 million per day from oil and $200 million per day from gas. on a single day in march, after the invasion of ukraine, europe paid 700 and $20 million to russia for gas alone. the u.s. has already banned russia's imports and now the ball is in europe's court. but america, which produces its own gas and oil, is far less reliant on russian oil than europe's. the eu has so far banned russian coal, but hasn't made the leap to a full oil and gas embargo. choking russia off from its economic lifeline would send immediate shockwaves to the kremlin's economy, may even have a direct effect on this war. but it won't have an immediate effect on climate change. america, the eu and all of nato could stop buying oil and gas from russia and it would hardly move the needle on climate change. in, fact it would hardly moved at all. at the end of the day, the world will still generally use the same amount of fossil fuel. if these countries are not getting it from russia, they'll just get it from somewhere else. including from america. which enjoys two titles. it's the leader in environmental solutions and it's the world's number one producer of oil. now, convincing the eu to cut off russian gas and oil could hamper russia's war efforts, but it will do nothing about climate unless there is a practical energy alternative to fossil fuels. it's not enough to turn off the pipeline from russia. the world must treat its dependence on oil across the board. it's not going to be easy, but actually solutions exist. and maybe this is the catalyst for all of us to start thinking about waning us off of oil and natural gas for the sake of this planet. if you still can't get behind that fight, maybe you can get behind this one. every dollar that goes toward putting russian oil into your cars or your homes is funding vladimir putin's assault on innocent ukrainian people. for now, when it cost you more to fill your tank because we're avoiding russian oil and gas, you are depriving brush of another tank, another missile, another soldier salary. so, your pain at the pump might be saving the life of a ukrainian. the world cannot keep funneling blood money into russia, and that means not funneling russian fuel into our cars, into our homes and into our factories. it must stop. and if it helps fight climate change along the way, that's even better. en better. but i didn't wait. i could've delayed telling my doctor i was short of breath just reading a book... but i didn't wait. they told their doctors. and found out they had... atrial fibrillation. a condition which makes it about five times more likely to have a stroke. if you have one or more of these symptoms irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue or lightheadedness, contact your doctor. this is no time to wait. welcome to your world. your why. what drives you? what do you want to leave behind? that's your why. it's your purpose, and we will work with you every step of the way to achieve it. this mother's day, show mom that you worship the ground she walks on. or in this case, stands on. the new anti-fatigue comfortmat from weathertech is a gift she'll appreciate all year round. it makes standing 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bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ it is birthday on friday. i want to take a little bit more about climate. as the will figure out what to do about russian oil. biden's focus on something a bit more immediate. he spent his second birthday in his presidency in seattle, signing an executive order to strengthen america's -- to boost wildfire resilience and -- mike next guest was there with the president as he plans to set new standards to fight climate change and invest in technologies which reduce climate change nationwide. joining me now is james inslee. also affectionately known as the climate governor. he ran against biden for president in 2020, on the climate platform. governor, it is good to see you my friend. thank you for being with us. i would like a little to the conversation, which a lot of climate activists are really mad about the degree to which the united states has decided to try to replace russian oil and gas in europe, as part of this war effort. for now, it seems likely practical thing to do to deprive russia of its oil sales. but a lot of people say to me, why did we just cut off oil and gas? >> that is when we are doing in washington state. consternation, president fighting hard. carter passing a climate bill. moving the ball here. the state in the country would like to bring an electric car. we just sold 75 electric powered 90 aircrafts. i just inaugurated a wind terrebonne farm in washington, powering 3000 homes. buttery companies here have taken off like crazy. we are moving the ball, making policies work. we have 100 percent clean electric green bill. best carbon investment in the country. in the bonus, our building could console did some good. work basically saying, we are the phase out the use of natural gas and our military by 2023. we've got the ball rolling here. and i think we've demonstrated is that we can do this. there are days we could use some optimism. but i always tell people is, we can do this. we are doing it right here in washington state. >> the president's approval rating is unusually low right now. some of that is connected to inflation, and a lot of the inflation is connected to the price of gas. the energy secretary granholm, i had her on the other day. she said that the increased price of gas is the price of democracy today. it is kind of the way it has to be. i do you -- what was the needle on? this the one beauty about the high price of gas is a causes people to get electric cars or change their habits, or use public transit. does that -- where is that gonna continue into getting off of fossil fuels? >> i don't think it should be the motivation for it. but it can be. the republicans are criticizing. donald trump says winter burns cause cancer. no, they give us cheap electricity to power our cars. and we are the group that wants to drive down the cost of gasoline to zero. so we don't have to buy the stuff. we don't want to just reduce nickel or dime. we wanted to go to zero. i have a little chevy bold, right below in our garage this morning. it is 254 mile range. extremely cheap electricity. clear literally, in our state, the power. and no matter what, what happens with the price of gasoline, the price of inaction and continuing to use gasoline, is a non livable earth. if that seems hyperbolic, it really is not. i am looking out my window right now at the glaciers are melting. our kids cannot go outside for a week last week, because a forest fire smoke. so the price of gasoline is the loss of the health of our children, who are getting asthma like crazy. but is the real price of gasoline. so yes, the benefits economically in the short term of electric have obviously gone up because of the spice and gas prices. >> what is the best we can do right now? there are a lot of climate activists, particularly democrats, who are very frustrated by the stall in this administration's efforts to do more. what does that look like to you? what does success look like to you in terms of looking to constituents for whom climate change is a major priority? including many people who voted for you for the presidency. what can they look forward to out of this administration? >> first, off before i answer that, will they look for his action ourselves. listen, we can take action in our states as we do in my state. we can take action in our cities and our counties, we doing our families. we should not be fully dependent. like in russia and d.c.. as indicated, they take action to meet our climate goals. every state in the country could do what we are doing. and every state in the country, which in washington state is doing, we could be a long ways from meeting our climate change goals. the first thing i will say is, take action in our own neighborhoods. but, look on the federal level, the biden administration has done a lot through executive action on methane and trying to reduce super pollutants in the infrastructure. there are hundreds of millions of dollars of charging stations and electric buses. so that our kids don't have to use some smoke. but we have to get two more votes. he needs two more votes in the u.s. senate to make this happen. and we are most hopeful that the senators, the two remaining senators, will come to the table and step up to the plate. and strike a deal with the administration to get the job done. the president is going to continue to work on that. he is a great deal. closer and he i know he's going to do everything he can. but ultimately, he needs more votes to make that happen. and fortunately, we have a republican party who is still in the thrall of climate denial. so that is what needs to happen. and i hope it does in the next 30 days. >> governor we are always appreciative of your time. particularly when this so early where you are. thank you for getting up so early to join us this morning. we look forward to more of these important conversations, which we have to have with. you governor jay inslee. >> thank you for working. ukraine we really appreciate. >> thank you senator. appreciated. it really is a democratic governor of washington state. coming up from north carolina to missouri, nick stones deer martin has faced calls for removal and restriction from classrooms. nick stone joins us to talk about this best-selling coming of age story about a high achieving black teen. and wind is being targeted by book banners. >> >> ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the ihop rewards program is here, and it's delicious. join the international bank of pancakes and start earning pancoins toward free food. only from ihop. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression 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(sigh) on tonal. ♪♪ your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire way day, wayfair's biggest sale of matchi the year is biggertion. than ever! for two days only, april 27th and 28th, get the lowest prices on thousands of items for your home. shop outdoor furniture up to 65% off... rugs up to 80% off... and lighting up to 65% off... plus, get bonus savings with a wayfair credit card and free shipping on everything! shop way day, our biggest sale of the year. happening april 27th and 28th at wayfair.com. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ this morning, the world of american politics is dealing with a loss of a powerful republican figure in washington. longtime utah republican senator orrin hatch has passed away at the age of 88, in salt lake city. according to his namesake foundation. before he retired at the end of his last term, january 2019, he had served in the senate for 42 years. making him the longest serving republican in the united states senator. he was also the longest serving senator in utah's history, having been first elected in 1976. in a statement, the executive director of the hash foundation, max sandra said, quote, senator orgy hatch personify the american dream. born the son of a carpenter in a plaster lather, he overcame the party was used to become united states senator. he has what he called a ramshackle house during the great depression. he went on to serve as the chairman of three different senate committees. he put his stamp on major pieces of legislation across the policy spectrum. and you've ever 2018, hash was awarded a presidential medal of freedom, the highest civilian honor, by former president trump. joining me now is jonathan cap art, host of the sunday show. first of, all good to see you. as i, said i was waiting for this opportunity on a sunday morning to be able to get to talk to you about the show coming up. oren hatch, like him or, not wasn't institution. >> right. he was an old school republican. he was what republicans used to be like. to be perfectly blunt. i met the senator and his late white at the south african state dinner at the white house in 99 brought. my mother as my date. and they could not have been more charming and warm to my mother. ali, i have this tease about what we have coming up in the show. we have ian mackie of missouri. we have michelle, i'm sorry, mallory mick morrow. the michigan state vanneter senator. both of whom give impassioned speeches. we have all of that. i'm going to take this time into cheese, ali, to thank you. to say, i am happy to see you back. safe, in the united states. you have always been a role model as a journalist, as an anchor. but what you did, day after day over weeks in ukraine, rick a master class in how we do this job. why we do this job. why it is important. and what i loved most, in addition to your reporting, was that you did not hide your heart. you allowed people to see, through you, just how powerful and painful what you are recovering was. so that's the t's that i am giving for this sunday show, which you can watch a 10 am eastern here on msnbc. >> you have me welling up again my friend. thank you. there was a lot of heart and. there i have left a little bit of it behind in ukraine. but thank you for that. it means a great deal coming from you. a veteran of how one delivers the news. so thank you sir. i look forward to tuning in. i look forward to many of these opportunities to talk to you on air. and to talk to your front as a show which starts 10 am eastern right here on msnbc's. six. >> thanks ali. >> the banned book club is back with a poignant and relevant. book it is called a deer. martin black in your faces are not just an unfair treatment from a white police officer. so, why all the calls to hand this book? the author joins me with the answer. answer ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ ♪i'm so defensive,♪ ♪i got bongos thumping in my chest♪ ♪and something tells me they don't beat me♪ ♪ ♪ ♪he'd better not take the ring from me.♪ with my hectic life, you'd think retirement would be the last thing on my mind. thankfully, voya provides comprehensive solutions, and shows me how to get the most out of my workplace benefits. voya helps me feel like i got it all under control. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. i have got a story for you. justice mcalister, known as just to his friends, is a yale bound. he's a high school student at the top of his class. a black scholarship student from a lower income neighborhoods, who attends a prep school in atlanta. despite grappling with being a minority in a predominantly white, wealthy high school, just feels surefooted. he is just weeks away from holding that how lord earned high school diploma in his hands. he has friends and a community. but then he is violently richelle ali profiled by a white police officer. thrown to the pavement to hang up with it so much is a question or an opportunity to ask them. suddenly, the ground beneath justin's feet does not feel quite so solid. as the coping mechanism in the means to gather his thoughts, he begins to write letters to the spirit of dr. martin luther king junior. dear martin. asking himself, what would mlk do if you are alive today? this is not the latest area police aggression for a black teen. could be. but it is the plot of nick stone's new york times bestselling novel, dear martin. it is the featured book on today's velshi banned book club. you cannot googled your martin without seeing how extensively the book has been censored and banned. a group of parents in minnesota removed the children from an english class, entirely, over it. a teacher in missouri was effectively fired over a lesson plan surrounding the book. the mother of a soft march to school a high school in north carolina defended her own calls to ban the book by citing, quote, a lot of language in a lot of sexual endo. for, reference the first chapter of your mind contains about five curse words in a couple of slaying references to teen intimacy. i am pretty sure the average tenth grade student here is more than that between classes. moreover, the book is written in marketed for a 14 and up audience. it is age appropriate. this is a pattern that we see again and again. a pair of lamps profanity or sex, but the reality is more like this. they want to see the world changing. and the very existence of books like your martin prove that the world is already a different place. sometimes these parents or school boards call for a different book. something historic, something the motive red when they were in high school to explore these complex issues. but while there is certainly space for tom sawyer or to kill a mockingbird, which was a previous velshi banned book club book, these books do not reflect modern america. particularly for black youth and the white students to within the interact. do your martin actually does. the book is fundamentally realistic. and honestly portrays a black high school students experience with not only racism, but life at 17 years old in a 21st century. dear martin humanizes those tragically frequent headlines. i am sure just is far more similar to the side of the north carolina mother one of the book band and even the she would like to admit. both just and that woman's sons are likely grappling with identity and the precipice of adulthood. the difference is that just's struggles are literally about life and death. don't take my word. for ask some of our banned book club members. -- a former professor, wrote to us about his experience with your martin. he said quote, it enlighten my understanding of the lived experience of young black men. isn't that a bucs are supposed to do? or sharon harris, who wrote in saying, quote, this novel depicts a young black man in a very real and relevant get nuanced characterization. a brief note. as you well know, we took a break from the book club for nearly two months. not by, choice but because the world drastically changed over those few weeks in a way that we as velshi could not have predicted. but even as our attention turn toward another ongoing injustice, in ukraine police brutality, overt racism, and flagrant censorship continued in this country. and tragically, there was never a fear that your margin would become less relevant to our booklet members. like the results, it was written for the american public in those few weeks without the book club. it is sad by the very necessary to pick up exactly where we left off. so let us pick back up. right after the break, we speak with nick stone, the author of your, martin and her important book and her reaction to the growing list of school districts and libraries targeting it. this is velshi, live from new york. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? 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[ cheering ] author of a number of celebrated books including the new york times bestseller in today's velshi banned book club title, dear martin. i have to start by saying, the books in iraq under all banned books. >> yes. this is a. drawing the artist's name is jane maori. she does these really cool images a book spines. and this is one she did with my. you can see right there. >> i have to say, your book is great. i enjoyed reading it. i am puzzled by why is banned. it is visceral. it is real. it's, unless you are a super prude, it uses language and references that everybody uses. if any parents doesn't think their kid knows about stuff like this, that is just weird and prudish and out of sync with everything. what is your sense of why this book is banned? >> i think people are afraid. i say this as a parent. i have a fourth grader and a kindergarten. and, like i understand the impulse and the instinct to try to keep these children safe and innocent. the difference between my children and the parents of children who can cry out against this book is that they have to know the information in the book to stay safe. mine have to know this information. so my hope is that instead of leaning into this fear that your kids are going to be exposed to something in a book that they are likely already exposed to in the world, parents whittling into the idea of compassion. and being interested in other people's stories. >> it is interesting. justice, the character around whom the book is written. his run in with the white police officer is literally in the first pages of the book. and at one point, it even says, mama told him how to handle this type of situation. but you have to realize, -- make sure the police can see your, hands although that is impossible right now, because he is handcuffed. he said, officer castillo, i mean no disrespect. and he never even got the words. out a lot of people who read, that said that was hard to reach for them. because we have been watching on tv. we have seen videos of that's now all the time. there is a 17 year old black kid who is running into something we now know to actually be real in america all the time. why can't parents allow children? to know that that is what happens to brown and black kids? >> because it is a real is part of the reason the people running from it. it is hard to grapple with some of the things that we are seeing on tv. there is a part of the book or justices teacher is telling him about why there is this new segment going on. this guy is on the news talking about justice being a thug. a similar story to what we have seen over the years. these black boys being shot by police, getting this negative view of them in the medium. but what the teachers said is that it is difficult for a lot of people who identify with the aggressor to admit that the aggressor did what they did because that means that the person who can identify with the aggressor could also potentially do with the aggressor did. does that make sense? it's like, because i see the you are like me and you did this horrible thing, that means i'm capable of doing this horrible thing. so i'd rather just pretend like you did not to do it. >> talking about justice's letters to martin luther king junior, diaries and journals and mental health professionals often suggests as a tool to work through trauma, or actually help with day-to-day life. a psych major at spelman college. why did you have just's to be directed towards martin luther king. which is the -- really, dear, martin legitimately the. ken was there a reason for that? >> it was a bit about. i can journal when i was in high. school it was very helpful to me getting through things. but also, in 2014 when michael brown was killed and the black lives matter movement kicked off, i kept seeing high profile public figures basically using dr. king's words to object to things that dr. king has on record participated in. so, he is the father of nonviolent protest. to see people say things like doctor king would never take a freeway, dr. king took quite a few freeways. i wanted to reclaim his legacy a little bit. because i feel like, when we think talk about dr. king these days, there is this softness to the edges. he was the most disliked man in america. in the 1960s. we were very him, now but that was not the case back then. having justice right to him, and look at his philosophies up close, that came from me being really angry about hearing dr. king's quotes misappropriated. >> i want to finish with one of the notes that just rights to dear martin. martin luther king. he says, it is like i'm trying to climb a mountain. i have one full trying to shut me down, so i won't be on his level. and another full trying to take my leg and pull me to the ground. he refuses to leave. jarred and trey are only two people, but after today, i know that when i had to yell next fall, because i am going there, but i'm going to be paranoid about people go looking at me, wondering if i'm qualified to be. there had a work against us martin? getting real with you, i feel a little defeated. knowing there are people who don't want me to succeed, that is depressing. especially coming from two directions. you are not making the point to have this conversation many weeks ago. and yet when we heard the confirmation hearings of justice ketanji brown jackson, she said the same thing about her time at harvard. i don't know if i belong, here i don't know if i fit in. and someone looked at her and said to persevere. >> yeah. yeah. it is hard. i grew up similar to justice. i found myself in spaces where i was the only african american student. and there are scenes from the book that i pulled from my own life. but i will, say though, is that there is hope. if i had to say what's the thesis of your martian, is on page 1:52 there are these two lines. you can't change it whether people think and act, when they control of you. when it comes down to, it's the only question the moderate is. this if nothing else in the world changes, what can a person or you're going to be? and justice has to come to that realization, that he is in control of how he sees himself, and how he carries himself through the world. >> next, don't thanks for your patience. it is been a long time waiting to happen to this conversation with you. next on is the author of your. martin keep an eye on twitter for next week's book. we are going to announce the title and author on twitter via our page at velshi, msnbc. i cannot say just yet who it is. but it is a big. one you've probably already read their book, or you might even see a now dictation of us on tv. stay tuned. you are going to want to see it next week. that does it for me. thanks for watching velshi the sunday show. with my great colleague. jonathan capehart starts right now.