Transcripts For MSNBC The Beat With Ari Melber 20240709

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in the probe to date. rhodes appearing in a federal court in texas. he was seen in jeans and a t-shirt and pled not guilty. he remains in custody, facing up to 20 years in prison on that charge alone. while his estranged ex-wife spoke out today. >> i think he planned it very carefully. i think he planned for himself to not get arrested by seemingly stay out of the capitol himself, but that entire stack, the people that went in, the entire event, to me i see his fingerprints all over it. and i think even though from the outside, oh, i told them not to go in, we were just there for -- we were just there for -- you know, to guard people, it's silly, but it's also very carefully planned to keep himself -- you know, to keep himself out of trouble. >> she helped him in some ways start the oath keepers but that's her view of what's going on now, the view of someone who knows him. prosecutors are drawing on a range of evidence to actually make a similar point, that this defendant planned sedition even as he avoided taking greater personal risk by not going into the building. they have evidence he spent a whopping $33,000 purchasing guns and ammo for the sedition plot. two days before the riot he discussed plans to use force to overthrow the incoming biden administration. in a verbal trick out of trump's playbook, he'll also, you'll see here, accuses others of his own offense. he falsely claims that trump leaving office, after trump's lawful loss, he was the loser of the election, that that would be an attempt to, quote, remove him illegally. >> we have men already stationed outside d.c. as a nuclear option in case the attempt to remove the president illegally, we will step in and stop it. we're going to be there to also help secure the coming rally this saturday and your caravan coming in. so i've got good men on the ground already. we've been reconned there last week. we're sorting out where we're going to be staging and we'll be there. we'll be inside d.c. and also on the outside of d.c. armed, prepared to go in if the president calls us. >> armed they were. he mentioned at the end he was awaiting the president's calls. of course some of the trump longest serving trump advisers were at least also operationally near these oath keepers. here's roger stone with them on january 6th, hours before the oath keepers were using that stack formation that we just heard about. the doj's new updated indictment charges ten people. another oath keeper made a court appearance remotely from phoenix as well pleading not guilty. all right. you are now up to date on the legal side of it. so what does it mean? you know, there's so much chaos these days and there's so much extremism and there is a lot of hyperbole, it would be easy to lose the thread or let this very serious development, this indictment, pass us by. but i'll tell you what it means. for the first time right now, the federal government is approaching the pro-trump yen insurrection as more than just trespassing or isolated violence. doj is treating it as a wider sedition plot to overthrow the government. two or more people who executed violence to ending democracy and try to make donald trump your dictator. we know donald trump agreed at least with the outcome. he did back overthrowing a lawful election. doj is still investigating whether any of his own aides were involved enough to be charged in this conspiracy as well. that's also new. all of this is against a legal backdrop where the republican party's top officials are embracing more authoritarian tactics, more talk of the right type of coup. or the right type of procedural means to cancel an election's outcome, to cancel what you, the voters, decide. you know, when you study this stuff, in political science they say when a country needs a heavy police presence or extensive prosecution just to secure free elections, when they see that abroad, well, that's a weak democracy. well, tonight as we end this week, look in the mirror, america. that's where we are now. weak indeed. to quote the great jay electronica, when i look inside the mirror, all i see is flaws. it's the flaws and the cracks in our body politic that has the doj arresting and prosecuting sedition plotters. it's a civil war era thing. they're doing it to try to protect democracy as well as enforce the law, which is their job. the democracy has weakened by these indicted plotters and, yes, their elite republican enablers. whether that crosses a criminal line or not is something the doj will test, but it's not the only or most important thing. if people in power use their power to forge common cause with what you see on your screen. look in the mirror and see our flaws while there's still time to deal with them. whether these flaws and wounds will heal or are a precursor to something worse that we will have all have to live through, that depends on the rule of law and an engaged public. i want to turn to our experts. former u.s. attorney joyce vance and bill kristol. joyce and i have been trying to deal with the law on this since the news broke yesterday and we will do that in this segment. bill, i turn to you first not for a technical legal analysis but for this broader question of the type of enabling that went on and continues to go on of what people saw on their screen there, someone who, while legally presumed innocent, has a lot of evidence against him for sedition for overthrowing our government in this moment. >> a couple of points, ari. i think you're absolutely right that it's an unfortunate sign of weakness in democracy that we have to go through this. you don't want to get in a position where each administration uses the criminal justice system to go after its predecessors which is why traditionally we have tended to shy away from this kind of thing. i think someone like the attorney general, merrick garland, his instincts would be if we don't have to do this, we shouldn't do it. i think he's looked at a lot of evidence and thinks we have to do this for the sake of the country. when you look at the way we've dealt with previous scandals and ways to corrupt our democracy, look at watergate. everyone remembers sam irvin and howard baker, the congressional committee. you tend to forget in a funny way judge john sirica. he was crucial when you go through the sequence of how the whole thing unraveled, his presiding over the trial and being a tough law and order judge. he wasn't some democratic activist but insisting on the truth was really important and we went ahead with criminal prosecutions of a ton of people in the white house, people close to the administration, sort of the equivalents of the roger stone types, and i think that was important to show that the system would bring justice. now, gerald ford pardoned richard nixon, but he pardoned him on a criminal charge which shows in a sense that the criminal justice system was willing to go right to the top and would have indicted nixon in 1974-75. so i think the criminal -- you want to be wary about using -- about weaponizing the criminal justice system, the justice department, the courts, but i think if on the merits necessary it has to be done and i think what we've seen with the oath keepers indictment and these electors, the trump electors forgeries, the fraudulent slates they submitted, the collusion to make that happen, i think you need to now have the criminal justice system involved as well as the congressional committee, as well as the media and as well as all of us trying to make sure this doesn't happen again. >> yeah. and we'll put the conspiracy language for sedition on the screen and, joyce, you can walk us through your thoughts on the legal side. >> the most important thing here, ari, is something that you pointed out yesterday. it's that this is how doj is now framing what happened on january 6th. they have applied this label of seditious conspiracy to what happened on that day. it's no longer a tourist event, it's no longer people who were trespassing, it's a very serious crime that aimed at the use of force to overthrow our government. there are technical requirements here that the government will have to prove if these cases go to trial or even to accept guilty pleas. and so it's, i think, easy and sometimes pundits and politicians aren't quite as precise with their language as we would hope that they would be. but when doj uses this sort of language to describe conduct, they have to have the ability to prove it in a courtroom beyond a reasonable doubt. and so here they believe that they can prove that there was an agreement among these defendants and that they intended to achieve this illegal objective, to interfere with the transfer of power, that they were able to use force, $33,000 will buy you a lot of firepower, even if you do it as you're driving through mississippi, which is part of the allegation in this indictment. so there is a lot of meat on the bones here. doj is not playing around. >> one of the co-defendants in this indictment went to tucker carlson last night. take a look. >> tucker, i did not go into the capitol and they know it. i'm absolutely outraged. they don't have any proof and i am innocent. and we can prove my innocence. you know, this whole thing has just crushed my wife and i emotionally and financially. we have all the faith in the world in god. we believe that this is good versus evil. >> joyce? >> you should never, ever do that as a defendant. the specifics here aren't damaging, but doj is probably entitled to get all of the outtakes, anything else that went on here. just the fact that an individual who is under indictment is trying to minimize what happened, undoubtedly it comes back to bite them at some point in time. i think, ari, some of these people, some of the defendants will look at the amount of time they're potentially facing in prison, decades of time in prison, and will decide that it's in their best interests to cooperate with prosecutors. that's when this will get interesting, because we see some echos here. it's fascinating to me that stewart rhodes, the lead defendant in this particular conspiracy, the head of the oath keepers, has put out into public the notion that he didn't enter the capitol. so he can't be guilty. that's a little bit of an echo of roger stone who was present in d.c., who was in fact surrounded by oath keepers for security, but who has also said that he didn't participate in the rallies. he didn't go to the capitol that day. and there's a saying in law enforcement that there's no such thing as a coincidence when it comes to law enforcement. these are the kind of issues that you would want to push on. why did they stay away? rhodes is a yale educated lawyer. he's trying to use that to say he couldn't have committed a crime. putting this in that context makes it look a little bit sketchy. >> yeah, and that goes, bill, to something that you don't need a law degree to know, which is steve jobs did not go into the iphone factories to produce them himself and john gotti didn't go do the hits himself. and i think everyone has seen the movies to understand that. as a final thought in this segment, bill, i'm curious where does the republican leadership go when it has really become a insurrection adjacent party with a level of minimumization. ted cruz having to grovel at that same show i just broadcast a clip from, tucker carlson, when he accurately said last week that this was terrorism and then had to walk it back. that's the state of some republican leaders, bill. >> oh, it's awful in my view. just to build on joyce's point, when were they there at the capitol? this wasn't trump saying congress is horrible, they should be denounced and a few hundred people gathered destroying the capitol and maybe trump is responsible, maybe he's not but it was a weird they decided to do it on a certain day. it was january 6. why were they there january 6? to overturn the election results and stop the counting of the ballots. was trump encouraging that? yes. was trump trying to get his justice department to work with outside people to get the fake electoral slates into play and make rosen head of the justice department and have the -- the eastman memo lays this out and it will get thrown to the house or whatever. it's more of a plot, more of a plan. it's a somewhat chaotic and haphazard plan maybe but it's a plan. violence and pressure is part of it, what happened with the electors is part of it, the eastman memo is part of it, doj, dod is part if the and the combination of the january 6 committee and the justice department are beginning to expose this in a way we didn't quite know before. >> all very important points on more than one dimension. bill and joyce, thanks to both of you. we have a break, but i'm about to show you coming up a tape we've been putting together that really shows why the investigators want gop leader mccarthy to come clean. and a big development in the matt gaetz sex trafficking probe. we have an expert here. at the end of the hour as promised we have a special conversation with david byrne. how he's reimagining his broadway show for the omicron surge. he's live tonight on "the beat." surge. he's live tonight on "the beat." y for what you need. isn't that right limu? limu? sorry, one sec. doug blows a whistle. [a vulture squawks.] oh boy. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty♪ narrator: on a faraway beach, the generation called "our greatest" saved the world from tyranny. in an office we know as "oval," a new-generation president faced down an imminent threat of nuclear war. on a bridge in selma, alabama, the preacher of his time marched us straight to passing voting rights for every american. at a gate in west berlin, a late-generation american president demanded an enemy superpower tear down a wall and liberate a continent. american generations answering the call of their time with american ideals. freedom. liberty. justice. for today's generation of leaders, the call has come again to protect our freedom to vote, to fortify our democracy by passing the freedom to vote act and the john lewis voting rights act because america - john lewis: we are not going back, we are going forward. first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. moving is a handful. no kidding! fortunately, xfinity makes moving easy. easy? -easy? switch your xfinity services to your new address online in about a minute. that was easy. i know, right? and even save with special offers just for movers. really? yep! so while you handle that, you can keep your internet and all those shows you love, and save money while you're at it with special offers just for movers at xfinity.com/moving. turning to something you really need to see. we've talked about how this january 6 set of investigations are on two tracks. there's the track with the doj doing the criminal probe, the seditious conspiracy and a whole range of other charges. then there's the congressional probe, and it's doing a lot of things that are different, appropriately so, from the criminal legal bar. right now there's a question about how much pressure to put on the republican leader to come forward and talk, house leader mccarthy once claimed he'd cooperate, now is refusing. the committee is weighing whether they escalate to subpoena him as well as some other trump allies. mccarthy, though, makes for a very interesting character here. he did initially denounce trump in the wake of the insurrection. then he went down to mar-a-lago within weeks trying to basically take it all back. we want to show you how all over the place he's been. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. >> my criticism went to everyone on that day. why was the capitol so ill prepared that day? >> you made comments about the president. >> why was the capitol so ill prepared that day? >> the president said to him this is as it's happening. he said, well, kevin, these aren't my people, you know, these are antifa. and kevin responded and said, no, they're your people. they literally came through my office windows and my staff are running for cover. >> my conversation was very short, advising the president of what was happening here. >> would you be willing to testify about your conversation with donald trump on january 6th if you were asked by an outside commission -- >> sure. >> when you ask me that question, never did i think a speaker would play such politics. there is nothing that i can provide the january 6th committee. >> it's not the news reporting that kevin mccarthy's positions don't make any sense, it's kevin mccarthy. he's on both sides of this. this has all been unfolding in realtime. the committee now telling mccarthy they want the information on his january 6th call with trump regarding his state of mind and any talk of immediate resignation, which again is the type of stuff that congress can look at separate from doj because congress is considering how to prevent this type of problem in the future, which includes interbranch relations. mccarthy is not the only republican having problems here. there are top republicans who mark the anniversary of this horrific terrorist event with silence or deflection. some skipped these observances entirely. take senator rubio. on january 6th, '21, he said there's nothing patriotic about what's occurring on capitol hill. this is third world style anti-american anarchy. that was senator rubio. he saw it. he said it. to quote the internet phrase, he said what he said. but here's how he sounds now. >> i believe this ridiculous narrative that every republican, every republican is an insurrectionist, probably a racist, wants to overthrow the u.s. government and wants to destroy democracy. >> that's the new sort of straw person argument, by the way, that you can't condemn this terrorist insurrection that was done in service of donald trump for all the reasons we've already shown you tonight. and the reason you can't do it is that somewhere, someone is claiming all republicans are insurrectionists. you notice he didn't quote anyone saying that. that's obviously not true. many, many republicans are not insurrectionists. but boy, are more at risk of becoming that if you keep dodging the basic condemnation of the terror. or take mitch mcconnell. here he was last year. >> there's no question, none, that president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. >> no question a moral issue. and yet when you look at the anniversary last week, he said it's been stunning to see washington democrats try to exploit the anniversary to advance partisanship. and then i've called it limbo because after each low, there's a new low. programs the most craven rank humiliating self-owned comes from senator lindsey graham. if you have empathy, and we all try to, it can be hard to watch this type of video, because lindsey graham makes himself look ridiculous. think about how he used to publicly decry trump. >> all i can say is count me out. enough is enough. joe biden, he won. >> i'm not going to vote for anybody that can't have a working relationship with president trump. >> i think he's a kook. i think he's crazy. i think he's unfit for office. he's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. you have to have a working relationship with president donald trump. he's the most consequential republican since ronald reagan. >> consequential is a funny word to say now in a potentially in his view positive way about someone that you called such a bigot, kook, unfit for office. this is where so many top republicans are about the twice-impeached loser turned ex-blogger in florida. that's tape you need to see. we have our shortest break right now, 60 seconds, and then we're back with a whole lot of news on covid and the implication from that big supreme court ruling. em that big supremeou crt ruling. dove 0% is different. we left aluminum out and put 48 hour freshness and 1 quarter moisturizers in. dove 0% aluminum deodorant lasting protection that's kinder on skin. 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(naj) one that we don't take lightly. it's why our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. fisher investments is clearly different. ♪ ♪ ♪i'm so defensive,♪ ♪i got bongos thumping in my chest♪ ♪and something tells me they don't beat me♪ ♪ ♪ ♪he'd better not take the ring from me.♪ more people headed to hospitals with covid these days. bed capacity has hit 80% in over 20 states. the new supreme court ruling makes it harder for the government to ensure people don't show up at work actively contagious. the biden administration had a testing or vaccine mandate for long companies which was just blocked by the court, even amidst this surge. the case was not about requiring vaccination, because anyone could just get tested to go to work. critics say the court's conservative wing is now showing an alarming embrace of the right-wing culture war against vaccination. we're joined by "the new york times" michelle goldberg. michelle, your thoughts on the ruling and where we go from here? >> i think that headline you just showed, at least by adam serwer, really nailed it. what was alarming about this ruling beside its deviation from the plain language of the law, there's specific federal statute that authorizes osha to make emergency regulations when i believe the word is, when there's a new hazard. i don't see how anybody could define covid as anything else. they made up all these reasons why the covid vaccine doesn't apply. but again, what i think adam serwer gets at is both their questioning during the hearings on this and some of the language in the opinion itself suggests a kind of marination -- although they go out of their way saying we're not questioning the efficacy of the vaccine, there is a sense that this vaccine is a dangerous imposition on people that they all buy into. >> right. i stress this because so much of the language occludes the facts. the rule was just to get tested. and that's no different than not showing up to work with ebola. you don't know what the next pandemic is going to be, but the idea that the government can't even play a role in trying to make sure people aren't actively contagious, totally separate from vaccination debates, which i do think for some people can touch on deeper personal measures, is just wild to use -- >> there's also -- >> go ahead. >> they also make this wild point that it's not specifically a workplace issue because covid is prevalent in other places, which is just an astonishing argument. because not only are all -- i can think of very few workplace hazards that are only specific to workplaces. but most other places, you know, besides school where covid is present are optional. that's what makes work -- that's what makes work special. >> yes. and people talk about individual liberty. if someone has to go to work in order to live and they want to be able to have some sense that they're not going to then contract something that they bring home maybe to an immunocompromised person or a child or whatever else, their rights also come into play as well. here's how some of this played on fox news. >> the supreme court has struck down joe biden's patently insane and obviously unconstitutional vax mandate. >> the most sweeping mandate imposed on private employers is now officially dead. >> a huge victory to the pro freedom crowd. >> another dramatic overreach from a completely out of control administration that believes it knows more about health and science than doctors and nurses. >> it is a massive win for freedom, for private businesses, for medical privacy. >> michelle? >> again, i don't want to just keep quoting adam serwer, but i really think that that piece that he wrote shows how much that vaccination has become completely subsumed by the culture war. so even if you're not anti-vax, and some of those hosts are certainly vaccinated. you have to be vaccinated or tested to work at fox news. nevertheless, a sort of hostility to the vaccine certainly and hostility to any incentives or any coercion to get the vaccine, skepticism about vaccinations has become so much a part of the culture of conservatism that in some ways it even supersedes fealty to donald trump. you have ron desantis, the one sort of point of leverage that he seems to be able to find in trying to displace donald trump as the leader of the republican party is criticizing him for being too cautious on covid, right, and sort of making a big deal about defying mandates, refusing to say whether he's had a booster. and so, again, sort of hostility to covid mitigation measures is almost, i think at this point, more important to the conservative movement even than donald trump. >> yeah, fair. and clearly people need to read adam's piece. michelle goldberg, thank you, and have a good weekend. >> thank you. >> absolutely. coming up, a new development in the matt gaetz sex crime probe. that's next. matt gaetz sex cri probe. probe. that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ well, would you look at that? 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♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes you want to go ♪ ♪where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪ ♪and they're always glad you came ♪ hello, how can i? ♪ sore throat pain? ♪honey lemon♪ try vicks vapocool drops in honey lemon chill for fast acting sore throat relief ♪ahhh!♪ wooo! vaporize sore throat pain with new heat on republican congressman matt gaetz. the sentencing date now officially set for his ally, who was convicted of so many crimes, joel greenberg. the former florida official faces a judge in march, which is pretty soon. he pled guilty to several charges, including sex trafficking a minor, stalking, and wire fraud. now he's been cooperating with the probe, which includes matters that relate to gaetz who was under investigation for some possible crime. he's not been charged. he denies all wrongdoing and it comes amidst news that his ex-girlfriend actually faced this very federal grand jury. i'm joined by nancy erica smith. welcome back. >> thank you. >> so much of this has centered on the link to this convicted sex offender, greenberg. it's publicly documented their alliance, which was so serious that matt gaetz rather than sort of minimizing or lying about it, which has been a political trick of some, he went on local tv and just said, yeah, we were allies, but i take it all back. i'm going to show you just briefly. take a look at that. >> i believe there may have been a time when greenberg swung by the office, but it certainly didn't have anything to do with any bad acts on my part. when i became aware of some of greenberg's misdeeds, i deeply regretted my friendship with him. i deeply regret my association with joel greenberg politically, socially, and otherwise. >> that's what gaetz said. is it possible that he could have exposure, though, from whatever friendship they did share or things they did? and what's your reaction to this new testimony? >> well, this is another trump ally that's in very serious legal problems. for one thing, joel greenberg has to provide substantial help to current probes in order to get any leniency, and he's looking at a minimum of 12 years in prison. he has testified that he has pled guilty to sex trafficking a minor. the minor in issue allegedly is a 17-year-old who greenberg introduced to gaetz, one of many young women he apparently introduced to gaetz from the sugar daddy websites where you pay these young women in venmos and claim that it's for school or tuition. these have been released. we've seen many of these venmo payments. now a young woman who gaetz -- she was in college, he was in his late 30s. he got her an internship in congress and began to date her. now she has testified this week before the grand jury. she's significant because she was on the bahamas trip, which is a serious allegation that gaetz and greenberg went to the bahamas with this girlfriend, who was a congressional intern, and several young women, including the 17-year-old. the allegation is that it was a drug-fueled baccanalia in the bahamas and greenberg has said that both he and gaetz had sex with the underage young girl and that he actually saw gaetz have sex with the underage young girl. so these are very serious allegations. it's a violation of the man act to transport a woman, especially a woman underage, and to give gifts or money in exchange for sex. it's a minimum of ten years in prison. >> yeah, as you say, a serious offense there that could overlap with potential testimony. we have to see what comes ouch it, but all very serious stuff, nancy erika smith, for the legal breakdown, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> absolutely. we have a lot more coming up, including the talking head david byrne, but first a little good news on a friday and it relates to a breakthrough both in the the biden administration and students and parents around the nation. and students and parents around e nation among my patients, i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? 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how are you reiteraing or imp vise amidst these challenges? >> we were faced with the same challenges as a lot of other shows. we had a lot of cast members that tested positive. we shut down for a few days and realized we can do this kind of unplugged, unchained thing. it's not going to be the same show but we can learn new songs. we kind of all work over the holidays, over the holidays we were all emailing and sending music back and forth and going let's learn this one. let's learn this one. in 2.five days, we had a new show together back on stage. luckily, we had a great time doing it. audiences loved it. everybody is out of quarantine and we're back. >> how did that feel, bobby? was the different show any better perhaps than the original full show? [ laughter ] >> hey. >> i don't want to judge them like that but i'll say it was a breath of fresh air where we've done this other thing and it great and i love i'm going to do it again tonight. learning 13 of his other songs that i never played, the second you sent the email, he was like if you want to request something, i had three in mind very, very quickly i'd love to see us do. it was just kind of rolled with it through that adversity and it was really fun thing to pull off. i did spend christmas day writing out charts but, writing out songs but i love to do it so. >> david, you've played in so many different ways over the years. i know our viewers know your work from the last time you were on "the beat ". how do you feel the audience reaction? can you feel or tell when they're different or you're in your own vibe doing your own thing? >> post pandemic? >> yeah, when you did these altered shows? >> oh, when we did those shows, the audience was thrilled to hear the songs and they could tell that we just put this together for them and they felt, you know, people come from out of town. they've got tickets. they don't want to come and go oh, your show is closed. we gave them something, gave them a choice to see something and they loved it. >> yeah. no, and it is -- i love the way you put it. that's the showman in you, which is in addition to the talents you have that people love, what is behind this curtain, it might miss one of the big numbers. i've seen the show more than once. you're not doing the big number but there will be something else dope in there. because this is the end of the week, we often do fall back here so in addition, we want to ask you any fall backs you have. bobby, anything in your mind that should fall back after this wild week? >> yeah, i want any hospital around the country that is forcing nurses to take vacation or sick days when they fall ill from covid, i want them to fall back. i can only imagine if i was the one taking care of sick people with covid every single day, people are banging pots and pans in the beginning calling them heroes and now when my employer, when i go down my employer won't even cover that cost when i don't feel the best. >> i think that's a great point. as you say, reminds us of how things evolved from phase one and the beautiful talk about how we want to support but in the capitalist country we have to do the support to make it real and make sure these institutions and companies are doing that if it will be real for front line workers. david, for people that seen the show you do a lot in a non-partisan way about democracy and participation and have a great feature where you shine a light on the audience and show who is voting or not. what has been on your mind on a fall back? >> i read something recently about a judge in wisconsin who ruled that absentee ballots, the boxes where you put them in would not be allowed in wisconsin. so early voting, absentee ballots and i thought what are those people supposed to do? where are they supposed to put their votes? it's basically voter suppression. closing -- we're not going to let you vote. i thought this guy needs to fall back in our country when i was in school, we learned that voting is a sacred right. it's -- if we don't have it, we don't is ademocracy. >> yeah. what made you confident that you could weave that into the show and keep people entertained and happy? bobby and i go to a lot of concerts. we go to concerts together. there is plenty where people don't want to talk about the things the three of us might be interested in. they are like that's quote politics. tell us how you weave it in. >> i try to make it non-partisan and try to find humor or entertainment aspect of it. we shine a light and go this is the percentage that votes in local elections so people can see it. they can see what a small number it is. i say to the audience so those people just decided what is happening for the rest of you and your children. they've decided for you. do you want that? do you -- you're handing them the keys to say okay, whatever you want i'll do it. is that the way it going to work? yeah. it becomes entertaining. >> yeah, bobby, you guys have played the show and other related versions around the world. what part because i always think it interesting to think how we're viewed in culture and music. what parts did you think that you could tell resonated with audiences and other countries or have tension backlash, anything like that? >> certainly performing the cover where we don't even get political, it just about saying the names of people whose lives were taken mainly by police. but there is a difference when we're doing it in new york versus doing it sometimes in florida and other states as that was traveling around and i mean, eye opening. there is a difference of the time that we were doing it of in 2018 versus opposed to 2020 george floyd america, as well. and also testament to the show overall because there are several themes we do that that we were talking about in 2018 and they still stand just as true if not truer today and there is a lot of timeless values that anyone can take out of seeing the show. >> yeah, i hear that. my last question is going to be for bobby but david, i'm going to put him on the spot because we're here on live tv. you guys are in the theater. bobby, what's your favorite and best talking head song? [ laughter ] >> it like that. >> put him on the spot. >> it like that. >> specifically? not any david burn? >> any burn. >> any burn. "everyone is in love with you". >> that's the one bobby said can we do that on the special show? >> had to. >> i thought theres not enough -- >> that brings us -- >> i'm a big sucker for ballots, anyone that knows me. >> we're full circle and that ends the show and the week for us. appreciate both of you david burn and bobby from american utopia. keep rocking. >> appreciate it. that does it for us. "the beat" is over. msnbc goes on. "the reidout" with joy reid goes on. hi, joy. >> the theme for the year might be same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was. we love the talking heads. thank you. great interview. have a wonderful weekend. cheers. good evening. we begin "the reidout" with a story you might remember about an armed militia that rose up against the u.s. government but not in washington, not at first. in 2014 nevada rancher bundy owed the u.s. government more than $1 million in fees for letting his cattle graze on federal lands without a permit

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