house panel have privately agonized over how aggressive to be in pursuing sitting members of congress, weighing their desire for information about lawmakers' direct interactions with former president trump against a potential legal difficulty and political consequences of doing so. now they are wrestling with whether to subpoena mccarthy, the man who is line to be speaking if republicans retake the house this november, setting in motion a process that could potentially lead to a democratic-controlled house holing him in contempt of congress with the midterm elections looming. investigators have rarely encountered such a situation. it is a situation with hefty stakes for their institution and their investigation as well given mccarthy's many conversations and meetings with the expresident, and given that questions are mount being what was said during those interactions. just days after the insurrection, kevin mccarthy told a local california radio host in an interview he probably does not want to remind people about, because it represents the starkest departure from his current role as donald trump's human shield. in this interview, he says that the former president admitted bearing some responsibility for the attack on the capitol. listen. >> i say he has responsibility. he told me personally that he does have some responsibility. i think a lot of people do. but now that i find out -- one thing about impeachment, why would you run it through so fast? i say let's put a bipartisan commission, let's learn all the facts. >> so remember that it was mccarthy, though, who later oppose. all those things. he rounded up. he whipped votes in opposition to a bipartisan commission that one of his own deputies negotiated. but it's this question of what trump tells mccarthy in the aftermath of the insurrection that's of interest to the committee. mccarthy seems to be doing everything in his power to avoid telling them. here's what he said in his weekly press conference yesterday. >> in the spirit of disclosing private conversations, did you tell house republicans on a january 11th phone call that president trump told you he agreed that he bore some responsibility for january 6th as chairman thompson's letter indicates? >> i am not sure what call you are talking about. >> the january 6th select committee grappling with the obstruction the house gop leader is where we start this hour. betly woodruff swan is here, of plitto, as well as an msnbc contributor. also joining us, steve schmidt, and congresswoman madeleine dean also joins us, a member of the house judiciary committee. congresswoman, i start with you. what do you think happened to kevin mccarthy between his answers to a local radio station, station in his district, that are consistent with his january 10th floor speech, and this sort of posture of either forgetting or lying about those communications and contacts? >> well, good to be with you, and your panelists. i don't know what happened to him, but it reminds me of my old law school days when we learned of an exception to the hearsay rule known as excited utterance, meaning when you say something in the moment, in the moment of drama, in the moment of an accident, whatever it happens to be, that that can rise above hearsay. what we heard from mr. mccarthy in the hours following the insurrection in that interview just days following were excited utterances revealing the truth. and so what i think has happened is he retreated. of course, he met with former president trump, retreated, because he has decided not to uphold his oath. that he is more interested in power, more interested in protecting lies and possible conspiracies, and not interested in upholding his oath. i think that is what has happened here. >> don't take our word for it, though. let's play more of kevin mccarthy in his own words n this window where you are describing witnesses can sometimes be more truthful. it's again from this interview on january 13th, 2021, where he talks about working out a censure agreement for donald trump with steny hoyer. listen. >> is it true that you went to steny hoyer and tried to work out a censure agreement? >> yes. >> so then you feel that the president is responsible for what happened? >> i feel he has some responsibility. that's why i think censure rises to that level. but is he -- >> but it's not impeachable? it is not an impeachable offense. >> he did not say "go in". i don't -- i don't believe it's an impeachable offense. >> clearly, a very different kevin mccarthy emerged after this interview and after the january 10th floor speech. do you think the committee should examine whether something along the lines of witness tampering took place during that meeting in mar-a-lago or in previous phone conversations between the expresident and mccarthy? >> i think that's exactly some of the issues that the committee is looking at. they want to get the facts. so what is mr. mccarthy afraid of? the facts. what did he know in advance of the attack? what did he know during the attack? what was his conversation with the president during the attack? as he called upon the president, as reported, to do something, to speak out. could you imagine any other republican president, even if not responsible for the attack itself, sitting there for 187 minutes? picture ronald reagan sitting in the dining room for 187 minutes as the capitol and his own vice president were under attack. mr. mccarthy is calculating. he is cowardice. he should uphold his oath and do his patriotic duty and just tell the truth. tell the truth if someone tried to tamper with our memory of what happened, or the records of what happened. i have great confidence, as you know n this committee, to get at the truth. so the words coming out of both sides of mr. mccarthy's mouth are not persuasive. his blistering statement following the committee asking him to come in and testify has no berm because he has no credible. >> there is also so much in the public record betsy that we though. and steny hoyer confirms it was mccarthy who proposed a censure agreement with him. he said this to cnn, quote, he was looking at options because at that point he was holding the president responsible. here's the time line that we have been able to assemble again from the public-facing kevin mccarthy. january 6th, trump tells mccarthy, quote, well, kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. sources is a statement produced during the impeachment trial by senator jamie herrera butler. on january 1th, mccarthy says that trump admitted some responsible for the attack. and then january 28th, mccarthy meets with president trump at mar-a-lago. what is your understanding of the committee's interest in putting together what intervention may have taken place there or before that. >> they are interested in mccarthy's conversations, and the conversations of trump aides both before, during, and after january 6th. they want to get a complete picture, in large part because they want to know exactly what the president's mindset was, what his intents were as the attack was unfolding, as well as any steps that he could have taken in the aftermath of the attack to continue to engage in election denialism and to start doing the work of reputation rehabilitation. that's a key focus for the select committee. one thing that's really consequential in a weird way about one of the proposals that mccarthy had and then jettysonned, one of the proposals he had was to have a bipartisan commission. you heard that in the audio you just played. the fact was, which is kind of funny looking back, is that the negotiations for a bipartisan commission -- there was a deal reached between john katko a house republican who just announced he is retiring and congressional democrats that would have set up a bipartisan commission. that commission's work would have ended on new year's eve of last year. if mccarthy had agreed to go forward with that commission instead of whipping against it, then the official congressional investigation into january 6th would have gotten way less information than the other official now operating congressional investigation into january 6th. by opposing that commission, the alternative that emerged is a commission that's entirely composed of members who are really concerned about trump and that's going to be run for much longer than it would have, resulting in a lot more information for the public. the challenge, of course, now, for this congressional committee is deciding what to do about mccarthy. there is one thing that i can say with almost 100% degree of confidence and i am sure members of this committee are aware of as well, and that is that kevin mccarthy is all but certain not to cooperate voluntarily whatsoever. if they are going try to get him to cooperate, a subpoena is the only tool they have. the question is whether or not they are comfortable trying to use that tool. >> steve schmidt, let me show you what congressmanned a a&m am schiff, who is on the select committee, had to say about kevin mccarthy. >> now we have mccarthy and others refusing to do their duty. the way i look at it, we have -- we have certain remedies, potentially, with mccarthy, with perry, with jordan, with other house members that we don't have with a steve bannon, for example, or mark meadows. that's because the house can control its own members, discipline its own members. so there are other options then a the criminal contempt route. we haven't decided on what options to use, but there is an ability of the house to essentially police its own that we will have to consider. >> steve schmidt, no one ever accused kevin mccarthy of being good at strategery. and betsy's point about whipping up opposition to the katko deal that i believe succeeded in meeting all the requirements that house republican leadership set out to meet in that bipartisan commission. they wanted joint authority bipartisan authority and sign-off over all subpoenas. katko achieved that. they wanted it outside of congress. katko achieved that. and they wanted it to sunset, basically, at the end of the year, and katko achieved that. nonetheless stephen steve scalise and kevin mccarthy whipped votes against it after john katko came back from those successful negotiations. and here we are with house select committee including two republicans who know exactly what kevin mccarthy is, what he did, and what he knows. >> kevin mccarthy has become -- this is an extraordinary thing for me say personally because i met kevin mccarthy before he was a member of congress, when he was the minority leader in the california legislature. as you know, nicolle, sacramento is a small town. and what kevin mccarthy has become is this villainous figure that is among the most villainous figures that have been in the history of the american republic. he has played a profoundly important role over this last year through the lying, through the cover-up, of poisoning faith and belief in democracy. and one of the things about kevin mccarthy, if you watch him operate, is that he's very childlike in that he lives entirely in the moment. he's not thinking about the ramifications for the next conversation based on what he's saying in the current or in the last. he's just trying to survive. he's trying to survive in the moment. so in that moment, kevin mccarthy was reading the situation. he understood how egregious this was. and in the end, before he gets down to mar-a-lago, which was fundamentally about securing the financing pipeline for the house republicans in the 2020 mid terms -- that's what that meeting was substantially about. we have kevin mccarthy at the center of this. he's always been at the center of it. continues to be at the center of it. and the house should use every power that it has at its discretion, including an inherent contempt power that could see the sergeant of arms handcuff and detain kevin mccarthy in a locked basement office until he wishes to testify. there is no matter before the country that's more serious than this one. and beingity leader, being the leader of republicans does not immunize you either from your duty or from complying with lawful subpoenas. you certainly don't have the right because of that political title to obstruct an investigation into a murderous investigation and attack on the processes of electing and inaugurating the president of the united states. >> congresswoman, it's not a perfect analogy, but over in the senate we see democrats really wrestling with how to use their power, and not able to muster all the democrats to put aside the filibuster, to protect the right to vote from the 400 proposed, 19 passed voter restrictions laws, voter nullification measures. the house seems to be in a different place and different context with the investigation and the events leading up to it. they have the bipartisan approach, they have the bipartisan buy-in. they have liz cheney who is not just a vocal critic of the republican caucus but also an informant of what went on and what was said, and adam kinzinger, they know exactly what mccarthy was saying to the caucus because until liz was pushed off her committee ranks. he pushed her off of it. as steve said living in the moment or whatever positive feedback he got, he pushed her out. what is the responsibility that this bipartisan select committee has to use that sort of bipartisan spirit of getting to the truth no matter the consequences and do some of these incredibly historic, perhaps incredibly difficult things like subpoenaing the republican leader? >> i think we do have an obligation. the committee is moving, i think quickly as well. i hope they will use every tool at their disposal in a patriotic way and in a truth-finding way. last week we marked the one-year anniversary, i thought n a series of very thoughtful ways on january 6th. one of the things we did was a moment of silence in the chamber. and you saw the striking picture of the democratic side quite busy and occupied with those who wanted to mark that moment of silence. and standing alone on the republican side, no other republicans but liz cheney and her father, dick cheney. we wound up lining up to go up and say hello. and i to just continue to support liz in her work, and to speak with the vice president to say how proud he must be of her. but it felt like a strange funeral. there was no body there. there was no kevin mccarthy there. this is the institution of our democracy. and how they couldn't bring themselves to mark that day, as jon meacham said later in the day, as he and doris concerns goodwin had such a wonderful, reassuring, historical presentation for us. he said a little bit with tongue in cheek -- he said, for the politicians in the room, you all think about your portrait. in the end of the day, you all think you will wine up in a portrait. and what will you want that portrait to reveal? i think steve and you and this, these facts, mr. mccarthy's own words, will paint a very sat portrait for all of history. and i say that to say to mr. mccarthy, it's not too late. come forward. do your patriotic duty. realize that you are taking yourself and your party down the rabbit hole of lies and cult-like behavior. and it will not end well. it will not end well for us as a country. and it will not end well for your party. it's not too late. do the patriotic thing. come voluntarily before this committee to protect our democracy. >> steve, you worked for the cheney family. i have to here you on what the congresswoman is describing, the anniversary of the insurrection itself. but betsy, there were members of congress who were in contact with the expresident who are sure to be in the interest of the committee lawyering up. >> i haven't been asking folks whether or not mccarthy's legal strategy is changed. my sense is that he's moving forward, ahead, and hasn't really telegraphed any concerns about the fact that the committee has now asked him to participate in their investigation. the statement that he put out, of course, very much speaks for itself. and the perspective that i would except he would embrace which is sort the general consensus in the broader republican legal community is that the select committee's leverage over mccarthy is limited. most republican lawyers, especially folks whor on team mccarthy, team trump, would say what the committee is able to do is just not particularly robust. of course that may not be the case. it has yet to be tested. at this point, the next big question, i think, before i would expect to be seeing some changed strategy in mccarthy's space is whether the select committee telegraphs it actually will take the very muscular and aggressive step of issuing a subpoena to try to compel mccarthy to participate in their investigation. if all that the committee does to try to get mccarthy to cooperate is just this letter that, frankly, in very respectful language asks him politely to participate in their probe -- if that's the totality of it i don't think that's something that's going to give mccarthy or allies, the broader house republican leadership any concern. the ball is very much in the committee's court right now. and they haven't decided firmly on their next step. it's a tough call. >> steve of course i am a student of pat laurp's. i know you are, too. this committee at every fork in the road has chosen so far the more muscular approach. that's not to say they will with mccarthy. but if you put liz cheney and kevin mccarthy in a game of chicken, i know who is going to blink first. it is not liz cheney. i also want your thoughts on where the committee stands in terms of that single subpoena and of what the congresswoman is describing a single republican in the house republican ranks in the building n the capitol, to honor the men and women of law enforcement -- i believe four dyed by suicide since that day. officer sicknick dyed from injuries a couple days after the insurrection. and not one of them thought to be in the building that day. >> in a moment of silence, we hear one of the loudest declarations in the history of our country from the floor of the united states congress when we see the accumulation of malice and indecency, a lust for power before the institution, above the public, with the absence of the whole of the republican party. and when you think about the capitol of the united states, i think it is the most breath takingly beautiful building in the united states. it is the building in america that rivals any in the world, any across europe for its beauty. and that dome represents the greatest act of optimism in american history. when abraham lincoln insisted during civil war that that building be completed, that that dome be reconstructed so government of the people, by the people, for the people -- that government that had survived this terrible blood-letting of the civil war -- that that government would reconsecrate under that dome. and to see the confederate flag waerd across the -- carried across the rotunda, the fact that these rioters defecated in the halls, urinated on the walls, this tore the place apart. it was an all on each and every one of us. dick cheney at his core is a man of the house. he revered the institution. so what he did that morning is he asserted his prerogatives as a former member. he came across the river from virginia, and he stood there because, as he said, this was a historic event. and it was. and everything that is playing out now in america around the remembrance of this event is about a predictable moment ahead when a republican candidate -- and it will be a republican candidate for president -- loses the election but declares themselves to be the winner and has an infrastructure prepared to back him up in the states and in the counties to try to seize from the winner the reigns of power in the oldest democratic republic on the planet. we are at a crucial and important and historic hour in this country. >> betsy woodruff swan, congresswoman madeleine dean, thank you for starting us off. steve is sticking around. when we come back, the leader of the oath keepers is in court in the last hour facing charges of seditious conspiracy. the latest on that and how these charges have upended the right-wing talking point that this insurrection was not an insurrection at all. plus, republican obstructionism has finally rammed its way into the white house giving the president a series of setbacks this week. what the administration's reset might look like as it prepares itself for year two. that's ahead. later in the program, the gop assault on democracy shows no signs of slowing. from georgia, to wisconsin, to michigan, we will look at where the fight to preserve free and fair elections goes next. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. 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have in real time dealt a crushing blow to a major narrative and key talking point in right wink media on and about the january 6th insurrection. in today's woechlt, quote, for months those who sought to down play the capitol rite decided to cite the lack of criminal charges that january 6th wasn't all that bad. charges like sedition and conspiracy for example. here are just a few of most instances from fox news that aaron blake sites if his reporting dating all the way back to last may, watch. >> oh, it was an insurrection? how many of the participants in that insurrection have been charged with inis your recollecting, with seditious, with treason? zero. no one has been charged with sedition or insurrection. most have been hit with charges like parading, parading. who knew that was a crime. by the way, it should be. i hate parades. >> how many times have you heard all those buzz words used in the press just in the last few days? but here's the question. how many times do words like insurrection, or treason father in the d.o.j.'s indictment? the answer, zero. >> i wonder what she was actually textsing when i see her on tv. we checked in with her program and tucker carlson's last night to see how those conspiracy charges blew up, did they lead are them. did they change their allegations that january 6th was an insurrection or not? they lanld it as the d.o.j. caving to political pressure rather than responding to overwhelming evidence. in stewart rhodes own words. he wrote this, we aren't getting through this without a civil war. too late for that, prepare your mind, body, spirit. it's worth notings in the second major right wing talking point on the insurrection to fall just this week, to be upended by facts and evidence. on tuesday, the january 6th select committee debunked the very popular buzzy conspiracy theory that a man named ray epps a rioter seen egging on protesters on january 5th last year was actually a federal agent. joining me harry litman, steve schmidt is back with you. harry, i am reminded of that i think cliche that a lie gets all the way around the world before the truth gets out of bed and gets dressed. that seems to be the danger of this hyper disinformation on steroids, amplified echo chamber that permeates the minds of everyone in that sort of maga base before the slow and opaque investigation that d.o.j. undertakes before charges something like seditious conspiracy can take place. >> exactly. by the way, it was always a very weak talking point. mitch mcconnell said on the floor, this was a failed insurrection. trump's lawyer, in impeachment, says everyone agrees it was a violent insurrection. the resolution that you just brought up that they all voted for called it an surk. it was a dog always that wouldn't hunt. but, yes, anyone who knows d.o.j. would know that's what it means to be building methodically. they had these crimes of property and peace. and they now really have anchored the investigation with what we all saw on january 6th, an attack on the country, an attack on the rule of law, an attack on the peaceful transfer of power. the really significant indictment. >> harry, i want to read from the indictment from rhodes's own words. on december 22nd, 2020, in an interview with a regional oath keepers leader, rhodes stated that if president-elect biden biden were able to assume the presidency, quote, we will have to do a bloody, massively bloody resolution against thaem. that's what's going to have to happen. how much in sort of going through the indictment do you see the case pieced together from the organization from rhodes's own words, and from, i believe there are four people that seem to be indicated as cooperating? >> yeah, it is very strong. you nailed the two pillars of evidence. they have got all of these texts and were able to decode them. of course there are cooperators. these are really serious charges and the leverage to make people turn. i want to say one point. this is absolutely the right charge because what they were doing was hindering the execution of the law, which is how the indictment puts it. it's a hard charge and a rare charge in history. but it doesn't have to be the case like the citadel was shaking and they were about to have a successful revolution. the point is -- and this has come up in the previous successful indictments, if they were really going at the law itself, they were hindering delaying the execution of the law. this fits it to a t. it is just like an episode not many people know about in the '50s where puerto rican nationalists were on the floor of the senate. it didn't -- it wasn't the case that the republic was about to fall. it was the case that they were seditiousists, therm they were insurrectionists because they were trying to hinder the law itself. >> steve schmidt, what is the point, where was the fracture where fox news editorially feels compelled toll defend seditious insurrection? >> it's a terrific question. it's an immoral answer in that what they are doing is assaulting the fabric of the world's greatest democratic republic, the oldest one. they are very much undermining faith and belief in american democracy. the reason they are doing it, i think, is the most obvious one. is for money. there is a billion dollar audience that's out there that can now be more easily imprisoned intellectually, algorithmically, where they are consigned to these information silos where a community forms. now, i think a lot of people, particularly in covid, are lonely, are sitting at home searching for a sense of connection, for a sense of community. what spews forth on fox trickles down sought face group posts and chat rooms and to the level where this fills peoples' feeds within their groups and they have a community that has opted out of reality. and the people responsible for it aren't the victims of the misinformation. it's the people that are peddling the lies and the b.s. and in this case, what's so significant to me about these charges is that in american society over the last 20 years, in a way that has destabilized american democracy, is that all of the accountability we see in society is inflicted at the bottom rung of the ladder. great example of this is the economic crisis in 2009. tens of millions of families lose their homes, lose their mortgages. what wall street banker went to jail? the answer is none of them. so what we see in this prosecution now is that, no, it's not just going to be the schmoe who invaded the capitol and do whatever desecration. it is going to be the leaders of the paramilitary movement. it is going to be the leader of the extremist movement. that this is going to go up the ladder. and that's a rare change in american society and culture over the last 20 years. and no doubt, one that is alarming a lot of members of congress and other people who think their position of power immunizes them from accountability even when it's the most greivous sins that you can commit against the republic. >> harry, as we watch this case go forward, what are you watching for? how -- who will prosecute this case? just tell us sort of what to watch for next. >> this very one will be handed out of the local u.s. attorney's office. i will really be watching who comes on the stand and what they say. it's a kind of petty satisfaction of a former prosecutor to see a organization crack and somebody come forward and talk. but what i will really be looking for is whether the department is going to marry this up to, as steve says, we are now at the planning stage, and we are also, of course, at the attack on law stage. it's possible, we don't know, but it certainly stands to reason that the rhodess of the world weren't the only planners. that political officials were. so i want to see if they put together two more conspiracies. one who involve the sort of roger stone/steve bannons of the world, the kinds of bridge between the rag-tag and the political officials. and the ultimate one would be at the white house level itself. not saying they have it, but that's what i will be looking for them to try to put together. >> we will be calling on both of you, as we all watch to see if that's in the cards. wow. harry litman, steve schmidt, thank you both for spending time with us today. next up for us, the white house trying to take a less than ideal week of headlines and turn page to focus on some of their year one accomplishments. our political panel on how the president can remain on track. m. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ narrator: on a faraway beach, the generation called "our greatest" saved the world from tyranny. in an office we know as "oval," a new-generation president faced down an imminent threat of nuclear war. on a bridge in selma, alabama, the preacher of his time marched us straight to passing voting rights for every american. at a gate in west berlin, a late-generation american president demanded an enemy superpower tear down a wall and liberate a continent. american generations answering the call of their time with american ideals. freedom. liberty. justice. for today's generation of leaders, the call has come again to protect our freedom to vote, to fortify our democracy by passing the freedom to vote act and the john lewis voting rights act because america - john lewis: we are not going back, we are going forward. you could be working with someone outside your company and wait for back and forth e-mail, or a call to be rescheduled for the third time. orrr... you could use slack. and work faster with everyone you work with, together in one place. slack. where the future works. exploring the heart of historic europe with viking, you'll get closer to iconic landmarks, together in one place. to local life and legendary treasures as you sail onboard our patented, award-winning viking longships. you'll enjoy many extras, including wi-fi, cultural enrichment from ship to shore and engaging excursions. viking - voted number one river cruise line by condé nast readers. learn more at viking.com. there's a lot of talk about disappointments to things we haven't gotten done. we are going get a lot of them done, i might add. >> president biden there trying to strike a hopeful tone earlier today as he made remarks highlighting the progress he has made on his infrastructure bill passed last year. the president announcing that he will distribute billions of dollars to repair and replace thousands of bridges all across the country. also today, nbc news is reporting that the president will sign a series of executive actions as early as this month on police reform as a way to help excite and reenergize the coalition that voted him into office and to make waves on an issue that has high public support. the white house and the president trying to turn the page as they head into their one-year anniversary. he mark that anniversary with a press conference next wednesday, i believe in this hour. just his second solo press conference since taking office. let's bring into our conversation the reverend al sharpton. also joining us, johnny deutsche, and jonathan lemere. you kn, i see the evidence of this hyper polarized moment, jonathan, in the fact that a lot of viewers of our programs don't like anything that goes wrong for this president to be covered. you know, you are piling on, you are being unfair to him, being unfair to merrick garland. i am sure you see evidence to that, fact. but to the fact detached america it is a whole different reality alltogether. i wonder what you make of how this white house assessed the landscape and the politics one year in. >> there is no question, whether it is on my twitter feed or responses to the show, it is right. people, you know, don't like it sometimes, if we are reporting or writing something that might be perceived as critical of the president. we are just telling them what happened. this white house recognizes they are in a bit of a low moment. it has sort of been a tale of two half years for president biden. first six months in office went about as well as you could. they methodically unveiled and distributed the vaccine. they got the covid relief bill passed. they returned a sense of normalcy to washington after the four years of tumult that was donald trump. there was a sense here that government was working again. no doubt, some of that persisted. the infrastructure bill passed now into law is a major accomplishment, too. the back half of the year which began last summer which began with the delta surge which caught the white house, they acknowledge, offguard. the exit from afghanistan, and now the build back better being put on pause and voting rights doesn't look like it is going nowhere. but they have a story to tell. they want to highlight their accomplishments and they also want to put forth the idea that things will get better, the omicron wave will fade hopefully in the next few weeks. money is going to bridges and highways, they are going try to push again on voting rights as best they can. they think inflation will hopefully start to go down come spring and summer. and they feel like vote letters recognize that come mid terms. >> donnie, when i worked in politics -- you can become captive to this idea that -- that if you keep chasing the cheese, you will catch it and you will be able to fix your prince pills' political problems. lots of principles have that belief. it has been captured in aaron sorkin's scripts as well. >> if is pa the crime bill, if i pass -- my feeling is that the country is feeling that, too. extreme concern about inflation, despair related to the pandemic, and the country has lost its grip on any shared vocabulary about who we are, and what we want. and the other side isn't just wrong. they are evil. what can this president do that is not something that he has to turn over control to congress to, that is not something he has to pray differently that than a virus is going to do? what is in his power to change next week as he heads into this sort of one-year reframing next week? >> great question. your question is teeing up where i was going to go. i don't think a lot of this is left brain stuff. i think it is right brain stuff. i think your audience is not going to be happy with what i have to say. i don't think he has come across as an inspirational figure. by the way, i can give a litany of things he has accomplished. and jonathan lemere laid out things that are not going well for him. but there is something that's different. how many people have you talked to who say he seems old. i don't mean that as an ageist thing. it really started with afghanistan where he didn't seem to have his hand firmly on the wheel. i think a lot of it has to do with the messenger versus the messages themselves. he doesn't feel incharge. he doesn't feel inspirational. he doesn't feel in command. part of it is he has done less pressers than any other president. this audience is not going to want to hear this, but if i am judging on style points, on performance, he has not come across as a firm, strong commander in chief. overall grading him -- as i said, it is not going to be a popular statement but it's the way i feel. >> rev, what should he be focused on in the coming days and weeks? >> i think he must continue to focus on what he's going to deal with with the voting rights issue. even if it is voted down, how is he going to deal with that? he certainly needs to deal with policing. and he certainly needs to deal with -- even with the bbb, the build back better, how that's going toll affect people on the ground. i think that he has made some concrete moves. i would have put voting rights first and done other things. but he has accomplished some concrete things. the two things i think that was a diss connect between the white house and even their own base, the coalition that put them there is that what they focused on may not be the immediate things that the coalition that got around him or that surrounded and brought him to victory -- what they were focused on. people were concerned about voting. and it's not the president's fault, but as a circumstance, 19 states changed voting laws while it happened, while he was talking infrastructure, which took some of the luster out of infrastructure, which was very important. but it seemed like, wait a minute, somebody is hurting me and you are talking about how i give you a good healthy meal to eat when somebody has bruised my arm. i think the disconnect was the passion that they had in the white house didn't match the passion of some of their electorate. i think he's beginning to catch up with that. but i think that sometimes you have to red your audience before you get up and try to address them. it could be a magnificent oratory. i'm a preacher. it could be a great sermon, but if the audience is into something else, you're talking to yourself. >> yeah. we're going to talk about this more. the rev teed this up perfectly, and rev, you were in atlanta with the president and vice president tuesday. we're going to talk about what went wrong with what is now not just existential for the democratic base and president biden's coalition but the country. base and president biden's coalition but the country. a must in your medicine cabinet! less sick days! cold coming on? zicam is the #1 cold shortening brand! highly recommend it! zifans love zicam's unique zinc formula. it shortens colds! zicam. zinc that cold! thanks for bringing me with you guys today, mr. and mrs. lopez. not a problem, josh. hey, you two. check out all these camera views in my silverado i can see in front of me, behind me, on either side of me. and it has this cam, so i can see if there's any funny business going on. you see any funny business going on? no, sir. let's have a great day! the chevy silverado offers eight cameras with up to 15 different views. find new views. find new roads. chevrolet. 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at new chapter, its' innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. fermentation? yes. formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done. the rev was in georgia tuesday. we're back with the rev, donny and jonathan. rev, what are your conversations with this white house about where that issue stands sound like? what's going on behind the scenes that even keeps us alive since it doesn't seem to have any legislative future? >> i think that the white house, the conversations i have had, there and after, is committed to trying to make sure that there is some way that they get this voting rights bill through. i wish they had started a lot earlier. i wish it had been more public, but we are where we are. but they seem determined. i think the president made a very passionate speech. i think he came with a real strong analysis of where we are. we're talking about voting rights in 2022 in martin luther king weekend that many people felt we had solved this in the '60s. i remember in 2006, there was a president that signed the renewing of the voting rights act. he invited us to the white house for the signing on the lawn. i was on the first row. invited by karl rove. his name was george bush and all the republicans had voted for that. so i'm sitting there looking at biden saying, what is so strange about a voting rights act? george bush, who we fought on many issues, as you know, nicole, from katrina on, invited me, called me out in 2006, and we're sitting here, what, 14, 15 years later talking about this with states changing the laws. i think that that's what has to go forward. and i must say this. for senator sinema to time her announcing she would not vote for the rule when the president was getting in the car to come over and meet with them, i think it was something that was very unnecessary and very offensive to many of us that wanted this voting rights discussion by the president with the democratic senate. why would you time your doing that when you know the president was on his way to the capitol to talk and discuss this? i think that that kind of thing is what has many of us concerned, if not angered, that they are not taking our fundamental right to protect our vote seriously. it's one thing to disagree with me. it's another thing to hold me in a contemptible manner. >> we're going to put a pin in this today, but i'm going to have all of you back on monday or as you're available to have the second part of this. what does he do? i mean, what, from sort of within the coalition and from the smartest sort of minds in his coalition, what -- how do you turn it around? he's one year in, and as jonathan said, there are a lot of accomplishments to tout but there's a lot of frustration as the rev has pointed out. the reverend al sharpton, donny deutsch, jonathan lemire, thank you for spending time with us. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom ♪ ♪ for me and you ♪ ♪ and i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ a rich life is about more than just money. that's why at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner so you can build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. hi, my name is cherrie. i'm 76 and i live on the oregon coast. my husband, sam, we've been married 53 years. we love to walk on the beach. i have two daughters and then two granddaughters. i noticed that memories were not there like they were when i was much younger. since taking prevagen, my memory has gotten better and it's like the puzzle pieces have all been [click] put together. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. after my car accident, prevagen. healthier brain. better life. wondnder whahatmy c cas. so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. youour cidedentase e woh than insurance offered? call the barnes firm now to find out. yoyou ght t beurprpris call the barnes firm now when that car hit my motorcycle, yoyou ght t beurprpris insurance wasn't fair. so i called the barnes firm, it was the best call i could've made. call the barnes firm now, and find out what your case could be worth. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪♪ we represent a state where, as in many, laws have been passed and further laws are being offered which would selectively disenfranchise voters, give partisan officials the power to subvert elections. the united states senate needs to act to defend the sacred franchise and the integrity of american elections. we have the constitutional authority to do so. we cannot hide from history at this moment. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york, almost no one understands and appreciates the need to pass federal voting rights legislation better than the man you just heard from as well as the man standing by his side. those are the two democratic senators from georgia. the state that played a major role in president joe biden's win and elected both of them to office, giving democrats majority in the senate. in the wake of those key victories, republicans in georgia pushed and passed a restrictive voting law that was so bad, major league baseball moved its all-star game out of the state because of it. and brand-new reporting shows that republicans are not done yet in georgia. republicans there are continuing their assault on elections in 2022 with even more proposals, more restrictions. "the new york times" describes how the leader of the georgia state senate is, quote, promoting a new measure to prohibit the use of drop boxes for absentee ballots which he says would increase security, that no problems with their use by voters have been verified. the "times" goes on to list those other provisions. one measure under consideration would allow georgians to use paper ballots if they have concerns about the recently purchased touchscreen voting machines that were the subject of fantastical fraud claims promulgated by some of trump's supporters. another proposal allow the georgia bureau of investigation to open inquiries into allegations of voter fraud. yet another would create a constitutional amendment to prevent noncitizens from voting even though they are already barred from voting under existing state law. limits on access to the right to vote are not just happening in georgia. yesterday, in wisconsin, a circuit court judge ruled that absentee ballot drop boxes are not allowed under wisconsin law. it's a ruling that could potentially remove an option for voting ahead of that state's crucial midterm elections. let us repeat for the record, there was no widespread voter fraud that any of these provisions pretend to address. especially when it comes to drop boxes. but to republicans, who exist in this post-truth all about doin they can do to grab and keep power. take this story out of florida. despite only getting less than 20% of the vote in a race for a u.s. house seat earlier this week, republican candidate jason mariner said this. quote, now they called the race. i did not win, so they say. but that does not mean that they lost either. it does not mean that we lost. what? yes, it does. that's how it works. you got so many -- so many fewer votes. you lost. but here we are. supporters of the big lie install more and more loyalists, more and more post-fact republicans into positions of power and enact new laws that facilitate the subversion of elections. what happens to the candidates who don't accept their defeat? the "boston globe" contemplates that question. they write this. quote, while few would suggest that mariner would be in congress in this year, his refusal to concede and decision to file a lawsuit raises an interesting question about the boundaries of american democracy. what if a partisan judge rules without facts in favor of a soundly defeated candidate for office? if that seems implausible, then what happened for closer elections? the urgent need to guard against the republican party's undemocratic push to control and subvert elections is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. "new york times" domestic correspondent nick is back, greg blue stone, and cliff albright is here, executive director of the black voters matter fund. nick, we've talked so much about this georgia law. i think you first started coming on this show when you were writing about it and how many people would be impacted. what is left? what are these state leaders doing? what are they going after? >> well, you know, they clearly took aim back in march at dropboxes. those were, you know, expanded during the 2020 election to give voters who didn't necessarily have confidence in the postal service a more secure way of dropping off their ballots and they were 24/7. there were, i think, 38 around fulton county alone, giving voters a very easy way of bringing back their ballot, and it was used by a ton of voters in this very democratic county. i think it was over 50%. so, the law back in march took aim at that and reduced those from 38 to the single digits in fulton county alone. now, they're looking to eliminate them completely, and i think it just kind of shows that what a lot of these voting laws have done, especially in georgia, is they looked at the voting patterns that changed in 2020 and they saw how what was once, you know, a law that was passed in 2005 to allow no excuse absentee voting by mail for more rural republican voters had suddenly been embraced by democratic voters, more in urban areas, so this new proposal by the top republican in the senate in georgia is looking to get rid of those dropboxes completely in another way to kind of further limit the absentee voting that has been more embraced by democrats. i've been told it's not necessarily guaranteed to progress, and the speaker hasn't necessarily said, like, i'm for this, but there's other elements too that they're looking for, including an investigative force, which, you know, both governor ron desantis has spoken about and other republicans around the country, looking to kind of bring more of that law enforcement heft to investigating elections and again, as you said at the outset, elections that haven't seen any fraud. so, what democrats say is, this is just a chilling effect and trying to scare people from voting. so, while the georgia law in march was so sweeping, there's still new elements and i think new things that we're going to see both in georgia and around the country that are going to further look to add new limits to voting and mess with election administration as well. >> greg blue stein, there's no evidence that the republicans crafting these laws, these measures are targeting fraud. is there? i mean, they seem to be targeting what nick's talking about, democratic turnout. what is the pushback? what is the response? from the democrats? >> well, the democrats are saying that the big lie still is a big influence in georgia republican politics. and by the way, it's not just democrats pushing back on this. it's also some senior republicans who worry that the republican candidates are focusing too much on 2020, relitigating last year, two years ago's election and not enough on 2022. and as a result, we've seen a lot of these proposals designed to rally trump supporters by playing into these lies, even if they have very little chance of pass, and as nick mentioned, there's not much appetite to pass this ban on ballot drop boxes. even the governor said he has no real inclination to revisit these laws but the very fact that one of the most powerful republicans in the georgia legislature is bringing this legislation to help further his campaign for lieutenant governor, kind of says it all. >> greg, we covered and i think we've all talked when the decision was made by major league baseball, far from the most political of professional sports leagues, moved its game out of georgia. it wasn't really followed, though, by a wave of subsequent boycotts, and the pressure seemed to come off, but the efforts to make it harder to vote and to really target democratic strongholds seem to be turbo charged. is it all the big lie? is it all this belief that trump's coming back? what drives that? >> you know, polls from the ajc and other outlets of georgia republican voters still show that the big lie has taken root, and even candidates who are more mainstream, like butch miller, the candidate we were just talking about who proposed the ballot drop box ban, he is seen as an establishment republican, but he also did not win donald trump's endorsement. so, he has to feel right now that he has to -- he's got to support these sort of far-right plays into conspiracy theories in order to win a republican primary against someone, a fellow state senator, who is backed by donald trump. and that's just the scenario we're facing throughout georgia is we've got a number of candidates who feel like they've got to move further to the right to combat trump-backed candidates. trump has now endorsed four candidates in statewide races in georgia and he's likely to weigh in on a few others before the may primary is out. >> cliff, trump is like long covid, right? even after you think you've beaten it, it's still manifesting itself in really troubling and in some instances inexplicable symptoms and disease, and in this case, the trump tale is -- it's not just extreme politics. it's not policy debates. i mean, what greg has been covering, what nick has reported on, is an attempt to rig the electorate. how do -- how does the other side create the more vast and the more politically potent coalition to combat that? >> yeah, thanks for having me, nicole. i mean, part of it is that, you know, we do what we've been doing for the past year, which is fighting for federal voting rights legislation because we know at the end of the day, no matter what organizing that we do, if we don't have federal protections against some of this stuff, then, you know, it's but so much mobilization you can do when you got some people who, as you said, don't recognize that there's really only two options. you either lost or you won. as your colleague joy reid would see, here on earth 1, those are the only two options but on earth 2, there's another option which is, if i fight it long enough, if i shout about the big lie long enough, i might eventually find a judge, like you were just talking about, who will agree with me and who will overturn the election and say, well, you have a judge overturning drop boxes even though there's nothing that says they can't use drop boxes so that's the reality that we're up against. all we can do is continue to speak the truth, to point out all the many examples of the impact that the voter suppression is having and just having honest conversations with our community and fighting for a protective framework in terms of voting rights legislation. that's what we need at this moment. >> cliff, what does that fight look like? if it's everybody regardless of party affiliation and news organization seems to see that the writing's on the wall for federal voting rights legislation with senators sinema and manchin uninterested in a carveout for the filibuster to protect elections and protect democracy. what is the next -- you know, what is sort of dusting yourself off and getting up the day after that vote fails look like? >> yeah, i mean, well, it's a couple of things. one, i think we just need to let the process play out. right? because at the end of the day, senator sinema can give a speech. joe manchin can do a gaggle and talk about how he doesn't want to end the filibuster. he can issue a memo. but at the end of the day, they're in the senate to vote. right? they're in the senate. we call it the world's most deliberative body. well, then, they need to deliberate. like there need to be a debate on this. and it's one thing with just giving a speech or sending a memo. it's another thing when you've got to stand on that senate floor and debate it along, again, some of your colleagues. they've never really had to have that good give and take. so the process has to move on. there's going to be a debate, both about the bill as well as a vote on the bill and then eventually a debate and a vote on the filibuster rules and it's one thing to say that you're not going to do it, but senator sinema is going to have to stand in that gallery, stand on the floor in a week where we celebrate dr. king, and vote against a bill that is named after somebody that she refers to as a mentor and a hero. so, the process needs to go on, and then we who are on the outside need to continue to do our jobs, which is to push and advocate the same way folks in 1965 had to advocate and push president johnson to do the right thing in terms of the voting rights act. that's why we're going to be revisiting our corporate accountability campaign we did in georgia early last year and talk to some donors to senator sinema, asking her or asking them to ask her to do the right thing. >> and just to bring it back, nick, to the reporting that sort of opened people's eyes to just how bad the georgia law was. it did result in the kind of boycotts that got attention from baseball. they moved that game. but you know, then we moved to texas and their law also got a lot of attention when the democrats in the legislature fled. they left, denying the republicans a quorum. but it feels like after that, when the efforts to stop these bills failed, the next 17 seemed to sail right through. tell me what this front looks like coming into the second year of dozens and dozens and dozens of bills still before state legislatures. >> yeah, well, i think just looking at the amount of public outcry that met the georgia law, that met the texas law, i mean, there were texas businesses that are anchors of that state, dell, american airlines, that came out very forcefully against the initial bills and then they kind of receded into the background and you know, they were threatened with losing some tax subsidies so it became for a lot of these corporations, not worth it. and once the texas bill passed and after the third attempt, i think, and other states were moving ahead, the voting rights battle kind of receded, i think, from some national attention, in part also because president biden was focusing on infrastructure and build back better and that was taking up a lot of the attention. so as we gear up for yet another year, there's dozens of bills, in fact, over a hundred that are either retained or carry over into the next year, and some are going to be in pretty critical states for the midterms. in new hampshire, for example, there's a couple bills that have either already been prefiled, one asking for a complete hand count of elections, which would lead to extremely delayed results, and other problems that could kind of being exacerbated in an unknown period after elections but there's also the possibility of bringing back a bill targeting students and trying to challenge them on what constitutes a residency. in florida, we've seen governor ron desantis, who's looking to pump up his national, you know, reputation, especially among the base, has really made voting courts his new push to get more attention, and so he's looking for an election task force that's going to have law enforcement behind it. he's looking to ban outside funding so that organizations such as one funded by mark zuckerberg can't help local election officials pay for machines or pay for ppe for their election works workers. so if you look at where states are going to be voting in the midterms, there's going to be a significant amount of new voting legislation that seeks to kind of tip the scales a little bit, and then you know, as was mentioned earlier, this has just become so core to the republican base and the reason that the top republican in the georgia senate is going for this is to play to that base, and to propose getting rid of drop boxes. so i think in other red states, we're going to continue to see new laws as well. >> greg, really quickly, do you think, with the law in place, that president biden and the two democratic senators, warnock and ossoff, would have prevailed? >> oh, that's a really good question. we definitely saw a sharp dropoff in ballot drop box usage in the municipal elections from last year because it limits the use of those so that alone would have significantly affected democratic turnout because democrats were the vast recipients, the vast users of those ballot drop boxes, so it's hard to say precisely but certainly would have affect overall turnout. >> and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the whole ball game for the republican party. we'll watch this space. nick, greg, cliff, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. great to see all of you. when we come back, a dire warning from our closest ally about the perilous state of american democracy and the nightmare scenario we could be facing sooner than any of us think. plus, why more and more schools are moving to virtual amid the current covid surge, even new york's mayor says he's now considering a temporary remote option as rising student and teacher absences make in-person learning a challenge. and with days before the start of the australian open, it's likely just a matter of time before tennis superstar novak djokovic gets thrown out of that country for not been vaccinated. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. 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we're certainly moving toward a place where you have to examine that as possible. what are the preparations to either fill the vacuum or deal with an america that is not an example of a democratic sort of example for anything? >> a stable democratic regime, that's right. so, i would say that actually there's been very little preparation so far, at least certainly in canada. you know, the -- that whole set of scenarios that i described in my piece and that other people have described seems, in some sense, so outlandish, almost unimaginable, that we've -- and so deeply disturbing to what it means to be canada and to be safe and secure in canada, that we have simply not thought about it very much. so, the point of my piece in the global mail, which seems to have struck quite a chord, not just in canada but around the world, was to just sort of pull back the curtains and say, hey, we have a problem here. we need to at first have a very clear assessment of the dangers to the south. now, things may turn out fine. there is enormous resilience in american society and its culture and institutions, but as a political scientist and as working closely with other political scientists who study state breakdown and the sources of civil violence within societies, there are a lot of warning signals, and we need to start heeding those warning signals now, so the first step is to start the conversation in canada and the next step would then be to think in concrete ways about how we can buffer ourselves from that trauma and perhaps even help in some way to be decided. we have to be careful that we're not accused of interfering in american affairs, but there's some three quarters of a million canadian emigres in the united states, and certain segments of the american population look to canada as a place that seems more or less to have its act together. so, maybe there's some things we can do on the sidelines at least to root for the continuation of a robust democracy within the united states and make that more possible. >> what are the institutions that have been, in your view, most weakened and the weakening of which institutions worries you the most? >> so, that's a very good question. i would say the kind of gridlock we're seeing in congress, though it sometimes seems that the country is almost ungovernable. now, the checks and balances in the american political system are intended, in a sense, to weaken state power, but in times of crisis like this, when there needs to be some aggressive attempts to protect, for instance, voting rights and the electoral system at the state level, the inability of the institutions to respond to protect those democratic mechanisms is really of concern. i would say the thing that actually concerns me most is less institution and will more kind of belief system or ideological issue, and that is the poison of the big lie, the falsehood that mr. trump won the last election when he actually lost it. that poison has propagated widely through the body politic in the united states, so somewhere between 30% and 40% of the american electorate now believes that the last election was stolen and that president biden is an illegitimate president. it's going to be very difficult for those people to accept the results of any election in the future that doesn't produce a result that they desire, that they want. and that kind of situation where you have a very large chunk of the population that's just unwilling to concede that they lost, democracy doesn't work, as i point out in my article. and i think that is -- that big lie, that falsehood, is enormously damaging, and the fact that so many people accept it in the united states is very worrisome. >> yeah, i mean, we contend with that every day. i have an audience that is rooted in the facts and reality, and we cover the big lie and the damage it does to democracy, but there are other networks in this country, as i'm sure you're aware of, that you write about, whose audience does believe the lie and they spend no time taking apart or showing their viewers the evidence that it is not rooted in fact. so, you've diagnosed the problem. i hope we can continue to call on you to help figure out some solutions. thomas homer-dixon, thank you so much for spending some time with us and thank you for the piece that you wrote. it certainly did strike a nerve and start a conversation. we've talked about it every day since it came out. thank you. >> thank you very much. when we come back, even though doctors say schools are the safest places for kids, some parents and some teachers and some students have real concerns about this latest covid surge. we'll talk through all the facts with our medical experts in the case. stay with us. with our medical experts in the case stay with us ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ i have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. so i'm taking zeposia, a once-daily pill. because i won't let uc stop me from being me. zeposia can help people with uc achieve and maintain remission. and it's the first and only s1p receptor modulator approved for uc. don't take zeposia if you've had a heart attack, chest pain, stroke or mini-stroke, heart failure in the last 6 months, irregular or abnormal heartbeat not corrected by a pacemaker, if you have untreated severe breathing problems during your sleep, or if you take medicines called maois. zeposia may cause serious side effects including infections that can be life-threatening and cause death, slow heart rate, liver or breathing problems, increased blood pressure, macular edema, and swelling and narrowing of the brain's blood vessels. though unlikely, a risk of pml--a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection--cannot be ruled out. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, medications, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. if you can become pregnant, use birth control during treatment and for 3 months after you stop taking zeposia. don't let uc stop you from doing you. ask your doctor about once-daily zeposia. (music) don't let uc stop you from doing you. ♪ i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ learn about covid-19, the more questions we have. the biggest question now, what's next? what will covid bring in six months, a year? if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today. schools are not closing. let's be very clear on that. we are not closing our schools. this is not chicago. we are working with the uft. it is as though people are disappointed that i'm able to sit down and have conversations with each other. i said i was going to do this as mayor. we are having great conversations, and we are working together to get our children educated in a safe way. >> new york city's new mayor, eric adams, unchanged in his position that schools are staying hope and that they are the safest place for kids. but mayor adams says he is working with the teachers union to address covid concerns when teachers as well as parents who are choosing not to take their kids to school. about one-fourth or 225,000 of the city's students stayed home this week. one discussion on the table, he says, is a temporary remote option for those students. also today, students in boston walked out of their classrooms, demanding a remote learning option and stronger safety measures as did students in chicago after returning to class just two days ago, demanding the district provide them with more masks and resources and include them in ongoing negotiations between the schools and the teachers. let's bring in nbc news correspondent shaq brewster live for us in chicago and dr. peter hotez from texas children's hospital and dean of the school of tropical medicine at baylor college. dr. hotez, we haven't had a chance to talk to you in a while. it's great to see you. what is your view about where the science is right now amid this omicron surge in cases? >> well, you know, this is the problem, nicole. we're not really hearing from washington or atlanta what the science says, and so we're making or forcing educators and school administrators, in some cases city leaders, to become the public health experts and make that decision, and they just don't have the background information to know what to do. i mean, point number one, i think everybody agrees kids should be in school and we heard from the surgeon general at the end of last year about the mental health effects of not having kids in school and also the importance of getting mental health counseling in school and getting nutrition in some inner cities for kids or in rural areas, so everybody gets that. but what's not done is to give a frank accounting of what this omicron epidemic is all about. first of all, how long is it going to last? would there be benefit in just delaying it another two weeks in order to -- while there's this screaming level of transmission and being able to make it up in the summer or at the back end of the school year so that the length of time the kids in school doesn't change. point number two, we know what the risk of hospitalization and death is, but what we don't hear is what the risk of the more subtle morbidities are. what about long covid? the great orman street hospital in london just came out with information saying that 1 in 7 kids could develop long covid. what does that mean for their long-term neurodevelopment? what does the science say about potential modest neurologic impairments for certain populations of kids? what about the findings of increased rates of diabetes? parents should know that and be able to make intelligent decisions to say, well, okay, if we need to have kids in schools, we get that, but would there be benefit of delaying it a week or two? instead, you know, what we get from the cdc, the white house, what we get from our school administrators, like you just heard, is baby talk, and the baby talk says, of course we're going to keep our kids in school. well, it's not adequate. parents want to know information to make the best decision for their kids. >> i have followed kids and covid very closely because i have a kid, and i think a lot of parents have struggled with all that you just laid out there, dr. hotez. only 25% of kids 5 to 11 are vaccinated. i think about 53% of kids under 18 are vaccinated. my sense of the hospitalized children is that, in new york, two were vaccinated. very, very small numbers of kids have reported symptoms of long covid, and almost none are hospitalized. why not a bigger push on vaccinating kids? >> well, you're absolutely right. and again, part of that goes to, we've not had adequate messaging what the health risk to the kids are. we keep hearing about relatively small numbers of deaths. well, first of all, they're not that small. in many cases, they're greater than what it is for influenza, but again, we don't hear about the fact that we don't want kid to get covid and potentially if it is really 1 in 7 for some variants, maybe not as much for omicron, what that means and diabetes is everything else. so, we don't give parents the information they need to make adequate risk assessments, and the urgency for getting kids vaccinated and the consequences of that are -- vary by region so we're about 75% of the teenagers in the north, half that in the south, so we're doing a terrible job vaccinating kids in the -- teenagers in the southern states and in texas, and then among the little kids, 5 to 11, we're looking at 15% vaccination rates, so there's a lot we can do to mitigate against this, and -- but this all has to be kind of laid out in a very synthesized way for parents, and instead, what we're hearing are little snippets and sound bytes and trite sayings when what we really need is an educated individual to really spell this out in detail so parents can understand it. >> in fairness to the biden administration, shaq, the first lady and the president have spent a lot of time on the facts and i think what dr. hotez is speaking to is this patchwork system that has sprouted up as we head into our third year of the pandemic, and you're on the ground in chicago. tell me what's happening there. >> reporter: well, what you really saw was a boiling over and that boiling over extending to the students here in chicago public school system. if you look back at the past week, the past two weeks, students have been looking at the city officials of chicago and chicago's teachers union, going back and forth, that led to that standoff, that led to five days of canceled in-person and virtual instruction and then students returned to the classroom this week, but they said that their concerns were not being addressed in that agreement between the city officials and the teachers union, so they staged a walkout, and you saw a walkout like what we had in chicago play out in other cities. yesterday in brooklyn, new york. earlier today in boston, massachusetts, as well, so the students saying that they wanted their voices included in that, and that they have concerns. they have their own demands that they want to be heard and addressed. i want you to listen to a bit of my conversation with one of the organizers, the main organizer of this walkout where we saw about several hundred students come to the chicago public school headquarters. she's 14 years old, organized this gathering. listen to why she said she did this. that agreement that was reached between ctu and city officials, were you happy with that or were you not? i? no, that was the bare anymore and the fact we even had to fight for safety within our schools, it's insane to me. why do we have to ask for covid testing in the middle of a pandemic? why do we have to ask our teachers to be provided with masks? it's not an impossible thing either. we've seen this happen in other school districts. >> reporter: nicole, i think you hear the frustration in her voice there, that frustration extended to many of the students that were here, but there's another point that i heard in my conversations with them, and it's the sense of fear that some of them have. one group told me that they're not just scared of contracting the virus but of bringing it home to others. one person mentioned he had a sister, a sibling, with asthma. another mentioned a parent with a heart condition. there's a fear that if this is not controlled, as they're watching cases surge, as they know more and more kids, other teachers that are contracting this virus, there's a fear that they bring that home. one person said he thinks about it every time he walks into the school, and he fears that every time he walks into the school building. you just get a sense of how difficult it is, managing this pandemic, and how many people are at stake and how many stakeholders there are in this process, nicole. >> shaq, were any of the students you talked to vaccinated? >> reporter: some of them were, and that, you know, is something that you heard from city officials when they were reopening schools and planning the reopening. there were talking about the vaccinations and pushing the vaccinations. part of the demands that these students had, it was an extensive list of demands that they have, but one of the demands on their list was making vaccines more available, opening up more vaccination clinics inside some of the schools, so yes, there were some vaccines there. i didn't have that conversation with every individual student, but they did -- and if you look at that list of demands, they did emphasize the importance of vaccinations. one of the other demands, they not only want masks available, but they want kn95 masks available for all students and staff. there's that sense that they want more resources and included in that are those vaccinations. >> nbc's shaq brewster, thank you so much for your reporting there. dr. hotez sticks around. a new twist in the saga of tennis superstar novak djokovic whose refusal to get vaccinated against covid has run head first into a country trying to do the right thing in keeping its citizens safe. ry trying to do t right thing in keeping its citizens safe. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ with unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans, you can take advantage of $0 preventive dental care. - wow. - uh-huh. $0 copays on preventive dental care and the nation's largest medicare dental network. take advantage now. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. mount everest, the tallest mountain on the face of the earth. keep dreaming. [music: “you can get it if you really want” by jimmy cliff] after a full week of tension and build-up, the statement today from australia's immigration minister reads, quote, today i exercised my power under section 133c3 of the migration act to cancel the visa held by mr. novak djokovic on health and good order grounds on the basis that it was in the public interest to do so. in other words, short of winning a last-ditch appeal set to be heard on sunday, the number one men's tennis player on planet earth has been instructed to essentially scram. to leave australia. if you've been following along with us this week, you'll already be aware, australian border officials first revoked his visa when he arrived in melbourne, rejecting his claim of a medical exemption based on a prior positive test. djokovic won the appeal and was poised to compete for a record 21st major title at the australian open starting monday. but as we reported, the government official with the power to do so has canceled that visa again, meaning that djokovic, the main draw for this year's tournament, could very well soon be deported. joining our conversation, veteran sports columnist mike, a member of the national sports media association hall of fame and the coauthor, along with james patterson, of the new novel, "the horsewoman." dr. hotez is still with us. mike, you'll have to come back and we'll talk about novel writing with james patterson. that's amazing, and of course that's the plot twist that you brought us today, but i want to ask you about tennis. why did tennis get rid of djokovic? >> you know what, nicole? he was trying to win his 21st major at this australian open but having your visa revoked twice before a major championship even starts, to me, is a new world's record for him. i have no sympathy for him. martina navratilova said something today that i said last night before this all came down, which was, if he had any good grace and he had any respect for a tournament he has won nine times, he would pack up, withdraw, and get out of the country before they throw him out of the country. i don't know how he thought this was going to work out. and the tennis australia officials, they are complicit in this, but ultimately, this is on him. even as anti-vax people try to turn him into some sort of nelson mandela. no, he's pighelded, he's stubborn. what has happened with the immigration minister is this, nicolle. somebody finally said no to novak djokovic. he should have learned his lesson when he hit a lineswoman in the neck with a ball and got bounced from the u.s. open that sometimes rules are still rules, even if you're the number one player in the world. >> dr. hotez, why does this matter? why does it matter what a famous tennis player does? it matters because of what you just said in the last block. we don't know what's going to happen to kids that get covid. it matters what people in the public eye do when it comes to protecting themselves, protecting their fans and protecting their fans in another country. >> well, it also matters, nicolle, and i absolutely agree with what mike says. the problem is when a high-profile athlete espouses anti-vaccine views, unfortunately and unfairly it becomes the face of the sport. so for most of this fall, aaron rodgers became the face of the nfl, the national football league, by refusing to vaccinate and said he was a critical thinker because of it and kyrie irving became the face of the national basketball association, and now this for tennis. and it's unfair because the truth is the leagues are actually working pretty hard to encourage athletes to get vaccinated. their vaccination rates are actually quite good in all of those sports i just talked about. and they are trying to put faces out there. but the problem is the highest profile players are espousing anti-vaccine views, and they are role models and they are encouraging a generation of young people not to get vaccinated as a consequence. and that's the damage this does. >> so, mike lupica, why do the leagues that have brought along big stars let some of the biggest, most elite superstars get away with not following the rules? >> because the rules change, nicolle, from sport to sport. kyrie irving can't play home games because of the rules in new york city, so he's playing half his team's games. rodgers, because of the rules of the nfl and because he did test positive, he gets to continue to play in the national football league. and tennis, tennis has always been like the wild, wild west. the french open says one thing, wimbledon says another, the u.s. open says another. but australia, and even though their politicians haven't always covered themselves in glory on this, they're on the right side of this thing. doc, i was saying to my kids the other day that anti-vaxxing becoming a political position is the dumbest thing that has happened in my adult lifetime in this country. it's not about politics. it's about science. it's about making the world more safe one person at a time. but djokovic can't get out of his own way. and nicolle and doc, here's the thing about him. this guy is so desperate to be loved. and i don't think he is able to take a step back and understand the damage, the lasting damage he is doing to his own brand and his own legacy and also to this tournament that he says he reveres. >> mike's new book is out. it's called "the horsewoman." i'm going to pick it up this weekend. mike lupica, dr. peter hotez, thank you for spending some time with us. we'll be right back. hotez, thank you for spending some time with us. we'll be right back. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. johnson & johnson is the world's largest healthcare company. building a future where cancers can be cured. strokes can be reversed. joints can be 3-d printed. and there isn't one definition of what well feels like. there are millions. we're using our world to make your world a world of well. 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"the beat with ari melber" starts right now. hi, ari, happy friday. >> happy friday. i want to welcome everyone to "the beat." i am ari melber. this is a friday capping off a packed newsweek. later we turn to new developments in the sex crimes probe involving republican matt gaetz and the omicron surge. i can tell you talking heads alum david burn is here later explaining how his live show is adjusting to safe performances, even when they are down a few musicians. our top story right now, though, is the escalation in the criminal probe into the insurrection. as stewart rhodes just made his first court appearance for his seditious conspiracy indictment, the most serious charge by f

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