sedition charge. two, it's a key charge going up the line. three, it shows an open probe escalating, not winding down, which is possibly bad news for other insurrectionists and co-plotters yet to be charged. it's big news. i'm going to try to walk through it with you right now. beginning with point one. sedition. sedition makes for a significance escalation in the doj's criminal probe. over a year in, today marks the first such charge in this probe. related to sedition, a felony of acting against the united states. i'm going to explain it exactly, but i can tell you how serious it is. it carries alone up to 20 years in prison. this is farther than the doj has gone against any of those several hundred january 6th defendants charged to date, and it's one of the first moves to go in the probes to go up the line to the plotters and heavy hitters. so what is this? well, let's go to it. under the law, seditious conspiracy is when people conspire to overthrow by force the government or by force hinder the execution of any law of the u.s. how does that apply here? the feds say in this brand-new serious indictment that oath keepers militia founder stewart rhodes led a sedition conspiracy. they allege an indict him for, quote, trying to oppose the lawful transfer of presidential power by force through the violent january 6th attack, and state that that attack was an illegal hindering of the laws governing the transfer of power. in the language of federal of law, violently opposing that transfer of power is sedition. in the language of political science, this may all wring like an echo to you, because the law speaks one way, sedition is what i read to you. but violatantly overthrowing the government is a coup. that is the purpose and conduct in this indictment. we are in a new phase of this probe. we have been living through this since january 6th and before. today is the first day with the unsealing of this indictment that the federal government is publicly treating it as as much as. that's a big deal. that's why sedition is so serious and so rarely charged. many murders are charged every year. we checked, and the best we can tell, the united states has not charged someone with sedition for over a decade. it was against a michigan militia member last time in 2010. now to point two, whether this had hit the big fish. a year in, top lawmakers have been calling out how this probe seemed to be more focussed on, quote, glorified trespassen than the big ring leaders. >> so far, it has been a very large arare of trespassing and glorified trespassing prosecutions of people who actually broke into the building. it's not gone into the various rings that might have supported that or into the key fund-raisers and ringleaders behind the whole thing. >> this brings us to point three where this is ed head ed attorney general me irk garland basically vowed to go farther, saying things were going to get serious here. he didn't preview exactly what would happen, but he gave a speech to that effect. today, well, we can see what's going on. things are heating up, not winding down. then you have the question of whether any of these new people would flip, or whether they had conflicts with other planners, the kind of people who foment rioters. rhodes faced the most serious charge, but he was not actually inside the capitol for the physical trespassing object physical fighting. times reporting that he communicated with members of his team in the building, but there's no evidence that rhodes entered the capitol. so he could have that in common with any other high-level people who might be charged to come. what happens to him? the fbi arrested him in texas. ten other individuals are in custody. if you take this together tonight, and we're going to go through more of it, i just gave you some of the key highlights and we have more to break down, including with our experts, but it can feel dizzying to be living in a country where a coup was plotted, where an insurrection was waged, where people come out and try to tell you about how they were going to do a coup the right way or a nonviolent way, and watch the federal government, which of course was obviously the target of it, but also the incoming biden administration watch it not do anything commensurate with the level of the attack we lived through and witnessed a year ago. there's much left to do, according to many of the experts we have consulted with. but today does market the first legal turning point, a sedition charge, and going after someone who wasn't running through the building like an angry, crazed, excited rioter, but going after some people who in their writing, their talking, their planning, secretly said they would take over the u.s. government. is it justice? well, we'll get into that with our experts. we have someone who was one of the top prosecutors in the united states, the u.s. attorney for the famed southern district of new york, david kelly, also full disclosure, my former boss, and a legal writer for the "new york times" magazine, emily bazly. if people are not studying this every day and living their lives, a lot is going on. when we hear someone is charged with sedition, how big of a deal? >> it's a really big deal. it wasn't used much over time. it was used back in the civil war era until we ran into the puerto rican nationalists, and then was used for sheikh rokwin when some international terrorists tried to blow up landmarks in new york city. as you pointed owl, a militia in the last decade. it's only been used frequently, and used typically against terrorists. i think any prosecutor looking to get to the bottom of the january 6th episode without fear or fair, i think looking for sedition and finding it is kind of a slam dunk. >> emily? one way of thinking about it is you're taking the arms against the government. we have this key moment of transfer of power, when the congress is meeting with the vice president doing the final step in the long process much certifiesing who the next president will be. i assume that these charges shows that the government has information that the people they're charging intended to prevent the transfer of power. that suggests that the planners were communicating about that in some way. i have been waiting for that and wondering about that, because at least for me, it's been unclear how much evidence of actual planning of this illegal -- that the justice department has, and this suggests to me they think they have it. >> and this is the use of violence in the language of law, quote, by force to go at that illicit end both of you stay with me, with regard to the violence. i want to show more of the new evidence, as we promised we would, because the it states that they planned stack formations, stack one, yelling take their shields, or our house, and then details how attackers assaulted police officers with pepper spray, flag poles, improvised weapons. now, today for the first time some of that horrific evidence is part of this federal sedition charge. [ yelling. >> lock your shields! [ yelling ] >> no! ah! >> david, walk us through how this plays in court, the dry language of legalese can get lost against a snip et of what we watched, much harder to live through. you handled cases that deal with this kind of tough stuff, including the john walker lindh case, and others things where you may have to get into court and explain to people why something was so serious. it would seem they have more video evidence than most comparable cases, but walk us through what you see in court here. >> if you're trying this case, if it ever goes to trial, your first witness is tape like that, to set the stage, to let people now how serious this was. then you look back and recognize we're talking about a conspiracy, which is simply an agreement between two or more people, and then some overt acts. it's one thing for emily and i to have a chat. if we don't do anything in furtherance, it's not a crime. once you take an act, there's a lot more in this indictment. stacking up is a military form mace where each person grabs the shoulder of the person in front of them, but they are acting on the myth, the fable, the lie that the election had been stolen as early as november of, you know, 20th, they start to form their group there's there's a number of activities so it's a well-formed conspiracy. they have very concrete steps that are taken. as a prosecutor, you start with that video to set the stage, a video like that, and then prove each one of these overt act, and i think one is like throwing a shovel of dirt on the coffin. >> this was what's called a super ceding indictment. there was some of this already out there. quote, i don't think the facts allege support the charge of sedition conspiracy. your response? >> my response is, when somebody is charged in a case with what appears to be overwhelming evidence, they usually step up and say my client will be vindicated, and that never happens. i would put this in that category. if the government has proof on the overt acts, you know, i'm not quite sure what the defense is, unless you try to cobble together some sort of defense that you were functioning under a lie given to you by the president of the united states that the election had been stolen. >> yep. >> i don't think that really works. there's no legal basis for that, but i think it's a tough row for them to hoe. >> it's been tried in certain contexts, tried most recently in some of the murder cases we've been covering that are different than january 6th. i'm going to read here what we're learning from the filing about rhodes' thinking. he sent messages he thought were enkarimed in secret, but the feds have them. saying things we aren't getting through this without a civil war. too late for that. this was on signal, which is supposed to einvestigate authorities. that clearly failed. also they quoted him, there's no standard political or legal way out of this. he was also studying a serbian coup plot where citizens ousted the president. that's some of the footage you're seeing that allegedly inspired some of these people. kr50i9ing the evidence, we must do what the people of serbia did when milosevic stole their election. rhodes published a plan of action with the headline, what we the people, must do. this was on the oath keepers website. >> emily, if we're too calm about it, we almost miss the point. i mean, they're literally talking about ideas of foreign coup, literally talking about we can't do this in legal way. it seems to be damning of a desire to break the law. >> i mean, you're allow to do plan a protest. you're not allowed to plan taking over the government or interfering with the key government function. it seems like they line up to show it was the latter kind of plan that the alleged conspirators had going here. the video footage shows that it was carried out. it shows why someone like david rhodes can still be indicted for sedition. both the planning, the specific nature of the planning, and then the fact it was executed. then i think there's this big question that you started with, ari, about whether a witness like this boning a witness against someone higher up the food chain. it will be interesting to see if heavy charges like this prompt that kind of shift toward, you know, potentially charging others we have talked about on the program before, who might have been closer to former presumption. >> i was jog going to say, sometimes an indictment like this is intended in part to shake the trees. you know, let them know we mean business, and my expectation would be that some folks, if they haven't already, will begin to cooperate. >> david, is it fair to say this kind of set decision charge is more gray than about anything that came out of the entire mueller probe? >> yeah, sedition is a big deal. there's a lot of other charges in there, too, all of which ultimately will be guided by the sentencing guidelines, which ultimately will be enhanced by the violence of the event, the gravity of the event, and so forth. so i think this is a very serious indictment. i will say, just to respond to what some of what emily said, the fact that rhodes wasn't present inside the capitol is completely irrelevant, when you're looking at conspiracy law. the fact that somebody could be a mile and a half down the road, or -- and still be a conspirator. i think one of the things they're likely going to look at, you know, talking about the elephant in the room, where does -- how high up does this go? sure, you know, you have to expect the government has and will continue to look at any connectivity between rhodes and anybody in the administration, to see if there was any sort of acquiescence, consultation, um, acknowledgement, you know, it's going to be the higher you go, you're not going to have people stacking up. you're not going to have people buying arms, but you're going to have folks buying conversations, perhaps that would bring them easily into the conspiracy without having participated in one of the more concrete overt acts. so one thing to keep an eye on for is, how much does this shake the trees? where does the government go from here? look, this may be the end all. i doubt it, but it's possible. but it's also possible they work their way up from here. the fact that it's taken as long as it has to get here, attorney general garland responded in his last speech about the time it's taken to get here. it's a year. that's not a big deal in a criminal investigation of this magnitude. sorting through everything they've had to sort through, the video and identifying who is doing what, that's a big deal. in terms of the time line for a criminal investigation, we're kind of at the starting line. really fascinating, especially given your experience, dave, when you're telling us, one, bigger than anything with the mueller probe, people remember what that was like, and two, the conspiracy was on site, but the other pats pants could legally be off-site, and they may be hearing the echos of what you said. thank you both for your insights. coming up, we are dealing with extraordinary breaking news. we have a deeper dive into another aspect of this i haven't had time to to get to. a stunning decision for the supreme court that will literally affect workplaces every. it has to do with covid safety. dr. howard dean is here. later, lindsey graham? 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or was it about something else? this group started specifically in 2009, not out of a generalized academic concern with federal power, but specifically in reaction to something that many americans thought would not happen -- the election of barack obama as president. rhodes did not respond by suggesting voter registration to oust obama in the next election or back ago strong republican opponent, or even by criticizing president obama, or lying about hem, all of which are perfectly legal in our democracy. he said he saw the election of this first black president as a cause for people to arm themselves and prepare for war. let me repeat -- urging his members to arm themselves and prepare for war. talking like that, he soon found followers. the new group grew into tens of thousands of form and former law enforcement members, officials and military members. there's still open questions about how operational rhodes and this group actually is. how many of them actually want to literally wage war, which is chargeable by sedition and other things, and how many are talking tough, running around and not committing crimes. whether people like it or not, i've said this before, even in a tough time, talking trash, lying, speaking in ridiculous extreme and hate 68 ways, much of that is protected under the law, whether you like it or not. the point is not to paint everyone with the same brush, but the other point to to be clear-eyed. so think about that. we're a long way from these arguments being over, and the substance matters, especially for the people who may have been defending the oath keepers yesterday, may defend them today even after this indictment. they had this desire to article they were following some kind of principle. they weren't admitting the entire plot. they were saying this was about government overreach. you can't have a government reaching into everyone's lives. it's not just about obama, but what happened when the federal government changed hands to donald trump, who openly mocked constitutional separation of powers? the oath. who tried to defy limits of the federal government to target opponents. that's in your constitutional oath. that's a biggie. who defied the rules about not try to go jail your opponents in upholding democracy, all in your oath if i take it, if you work in government at any level. suddenly this group who, it found a wannabe authoritarian it loved, backing trump in every turn, growing to over 20,000 members that we know of. by january 6th, it had members working with roger stone, they were seen together just by the willard hotel, which became something of a command center with trump allies like bannon and giuliani, where they were plotting how to overturn trump's loss. >> roger stone, flanked by men wearing insignias of a mill litchia group. >> you can seen in that video, stone, who was recently pardoned, near men in mill litch contragear, two of them with oath keepers insignias. >> you request see it in the video. you can see it in the sedition charges now. trump white house aides like peter navarro admitting the coup plot, but he says these nextists complicated the effort for a bloodless coup, something illegal, but less violent, while trump's top election lawyer, rudy giuliani, insisted he had ways to do it legally. it's relevant to note his law license is suspended, and he remains under investigation. if you feel like some of this is are coming together in a way that's concerning, you are right. if you feel like some of these people who explain themselves as extremists are still lying about their very project, you are right. i can't tell you what's in the mind of every single oath keeper, and we don't do guilt by association in journal im, we try not to. i can tell you you have a leader here who was responding specifically to the election of barack obama, and who everything he said about federal power was nullified, if it wasn't already often, by donald trump, who he cottoned to. they're just literally against having an american democracy. let that sink in. it's clearly sunk into the point that the doj thinking it can make these sedition charges stick. how big is the threat and where do we go from here? we turn to fbi veteran frank fi figure luizzi in 60 seconds. we just walk through conspiracy charge today. walk us through it. >> yeah, you're right to raise the official founding day of 2009 following the election of president obama. there does seem to be a trigger here. oath keepers traditional shows up when a white police officer has shot a black american. they come quickly to the aid and defense in ferguson. you can see where it would be appealing to former cops, former military vets, continue to uphold your oath. that sounds great until you look at the membership process. someone has to screen you, you're vetted. they want somebody to vouch for you. they're checking you out making sure you're not a fed, you can be trusted. it's a house of cards that we're here to protect, wherein they're founded on the -- it's a house of cards. they claim 30,000, 35,000, perhaps it's more like 20,000. when you look at stewart rhodes' involvement, i'm keenly interested in the possibility of cross communications with other groups like this. 3%-ers. and then even more interesting, the affiliation with politicians, to legitimize themselves. rallies for politicians, members of congress. >> right. >> senator, there's now an infamous photo of ted crew with an oath keepers flag flying behind him at a rally. i'm taken about the details in this indictment. quick reaction forces set up with weapons around the city. you know who didn't have a quick reaction force? the federal government, but the oath keepers did have it. highly weaponized. highly trained. >> given how many cases you have worked, do you see any criminal exposure for unindicted members at this point. >> i absolutely do. remember, one in ten people charged on the january 6th violence has some military affiliation. i don't think this is the end, and i believe we're going to see extensions of this into proud boys and 3 percenters. >> frank figluizzi, thank you for being part of our breaking coverage. >> sure. thank you. i mentioned earlier, folks, there's a lot of news today. there's a huge supreme court ruling to affect every workplace in america. it's about the biden vaccine rolls. howard deal is here. we've got you with what you need to know, next. here. here. we've got you with what you need it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. 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voltaren arthritis pain gel. my husband's got his moves back. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel for powerful arthritis pain relief. voltaren, the joy of movement. huge news today that will affect your exposure to covid and how america continues through the third year of this pandemic. omicron surging, the supreme court today dealing with the u.s. and biden administration a blow, with the effort to stop covid. today blocking the federal administrative plan to workplace vaccine rules impacting big companies. biden's plan did not force anyone to get vaccinated in the first place. it required people at big countries to either test negative, get vaccinated in order to keep the workplaces safe. with six conservative judges blocking the rule, it's no longer in force in america. the three more liberal justices dissented. the ruling will go back to the federal court. the president said he was ready for the fight. >> have at it. we're playing for real here. this isn't a game. >> playing for real, and coverage notes the supreme court repeatedly upheld state mandates. today's ruling focuses in on the federal agency and these conservative members of the court say covid is a universal rink. they were saying a federal agency regulating such risks would significantly expand its authority without congress. now, that's not to say this supreme court is against any regulation of covid safety. the court also separately upheld a mandate for healthcare workers specifically. even though that was narrow, 5-4. take a step back from the law. this is more about safety and life than some other legal debate. this is about safety rules in the workplace. if you've ever been to work, you know there are all kinds of rules about workplace safety, hazards, slip and fall, parking, driving. we're dealing with an ongoing pandemic that's the new normal. the biden plan didn't get out to the trickier libertarian questions about can the government enforce a rule where you'll never -- because you're an adult and that's trickier. the only requirement was to test people who were unvaccinated before they come into work. imagine you go into work, ebola is raging, and we want to make sure you don't have ebola before you come to work. is that in the public interest? we're talking about basic assurances the people you interact with don't infect you or your family, and we're talking about a real world, a deadly virus that's killed over 800,000 americans. i'm joined now by someone at the intersection of medicine and policy, dr. howard dea, former governor of investment. welcome back. >> thank you. we could have booked a lawyer, i know lawyers -- not bragging -- >> you are a lawyer. >> we come to you, because i don't see this as a legal issue. law is just getting involved. it's first a safety issue. testing is where biden landed. just saying, look, there's going to be a lot of people. they're going to be -- does this set back the safety of americans today? >> it does. the disturbing thing about this course, in their right-wing ideological zealotry, they have substituted their judgment for public health judgment, which they're totally unqualified to do. they did the same in the abortion case in mississippi, where they looked like they were headed that way, where they substitute their judgment for the judgment of doctors and patients. this is an idea logically mott rated court. the law many times is irrelevant, as we saw in the unite -- this court has a real problem. i was quite disappointed in the biden administration administration for not taking it more seriously. i thought their committee to look at it did essentially nothing and spend a lot of taxpayers money. this court is a threat to the united states, and a threat to women's health and all americans' health. >> i hear you. again, this isn't really about complex legal theory. one of the most famous supreme court rulings said the constitution is not a suicide pact, it is the basket idea as you get out towards things that wipe everything out our wipe out the country, they kind of pull back from whatever nifty legal trade-off you might have had. we're living in a pandemic era. we don't know whether the next strain will be better or worse, we're just buckling up, figuring out how to get through it. and this language from the court gives away the game of the criticism you just made. the judges say the federal government says the mandate will save over 6,000 lives, and prevent hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations. it's not in our rule to weigh the tradeoffs. it depends. if the tradeoffs are enough people dies, it certainly would be relevant to interfering with a situation where the government is protecting those lives. the appeals court did say they have that power. vaccines have had a function in schools for a long time. >> again, this is just right-wing zealotry. three justs, alit to, thomas and coney barrett, have complained people think the court is made up of partisan hacks. well, it is. this is why people say that. frankly they're more concerned with authoritarianism than -- this situation is going to kill probably more americans than died certainly in world war ii, maybe even, if we keep going at this pace, killed more americans than died in the civil war, which is the war that did more damage to this country than any other. they're not using common sense. they don't want to use common sense, and they badly need reform. first of all, they should have term limits. second of all there's now 13 circuits, not nine, so they probably should have a justice for each circuit. the system has been game with dark money from the federalist society, which is not reported. nobody knows where the money is coming from, and it's a real threat to democracy. the mississippi decision, the voting rights decision, the citizens united where corporations are now people and can put as much moan as they want into into political stuff, the court is a threat to the united states of america. this is actually a threat to individual lives. there will be a great many in seven figures, as a result of this. >> wow, doctor and governor dean, thank you for your time. we're going to fit in a break. doing the limbo with lindsey graham. we'll explain. doing the limbo with lindsey graham and you could lose up to ten pounds. trulicity is for type 2 diabetes. it isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. it's not approved for use in children. don't take trulicity if you're allergic to it, we'll explain. you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, changes in vision, or diabetic retinopathy. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. taking trulicity with sulfonylurea or insulin raises low blood sugar risk. side effects include nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, which can lead to dehydration and may worsen kidney problems. ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. narrator: on a faraway beach, the generation called "our greatest" saved the world from tyranny. in an office we know as "oval," a new-generation president faced down an imminent threat of nuclear war. on a bridge in selma, alabama, the preacher of his time marched us straight to passing voting rights for every american. at a gate in west berlin, a late-generation american president demanded an enemy superpower tear down a wall and liberate a continent. american generations answering the call of their time with american ideals. freedom. liberty. justice. for today's generation of leaders, the call has come again to protect our freedom to vote, to fortify our democracy by passing the freedom to vote act and the john lewis voting rights act because america - john lewis: we are not going back, we are going forward. among my patients, i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend. new evidence today of the one litmus test in the modern republican party. there has to be allegiance not to ideas, the constitution, but to a person, in this case donald trump. senator lindsey graham, who has been all over the place over the years is making clear that, well, basically, he has a threat against the person who technically outranks him in the party, republican leader mitch mcconnell. >> elections are about the future. if you want to be a republican leader in the house or the senate, you have to have a working relationship with president donald trump. he is the most consequential republican since ronald reagan. it's his nomination if he wants it, and i think he will get reelected in 2024. here is the question. can senator mcconnell effectively work with the leader of the republican party donald trump? i'm not going to vote for anybody that can't have a working relationship with president trump. >> this is sort of a politically cowardly bank shot. graham has to vote for who is the senate leader, but he says his vote is determined who will feature the primary, which is usually up to, wait for it, voters. it's a step down for graham, who also had recently declared his independence from donald trump after the other big story of the day we've been covering. remember how graham sounded in those tense times right after the insurrectionists tried to overthrow the government for trump. >> all i can say is count me out. enough is enough. it is over. joe biden. i've travel the world with joe. i hoped he lost. i prayed he would lose. he won. he is the legitimate president of the united states. >> you won't hear graham talk about that now. he is much closer to the big lie and the january 6 minimizers. but this runs far deeper, and people need to keep the facts in mind. lindsey graham is lying to you, and we know that based on the evidence from lindsey graham. this is how he talked about then candidate donald trump when it matter, and it was the public choice of whether to make him the nominee or president in 2016. >> we should have basically kicked him out of the party. >> i think he is a kook. i think he is crazy. i think he is unfit for policy. >> i don't believe he is a republican. his policies are bad for the office. >> he is a jackass. >> you know how to make america great again? tell donald trump to go to hell shirks a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. >> what more do you need to say? we'll be right back with news on voting rights. we'll be right bk acwith news on we'll be right bk acwith news on voting rights. clinically shown to cause fewer ulcers than plain aspirin. try new vazalore. aspirin made amazing! ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom ♪ ♪ for me 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