became one of the foot soldiers in one of the moment dangerous movements in america. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's get started.nt if you have been following the news at all this week you've likely seen a lot of headlines like these. alarming updates about the spread, of the omicron variant of covid-19. cases detected in new york, d.c., california, georgia. headlines and breaking news flying so fast at you that it's enough to actually make you scared. now, listen. some scientists think that omicron may become the dominant strain of covid-19. so if a case of omicron hasn't been announced in your area yet, it's probably just a matter of time before it does. now, i'm not trying to make light of the situation. it's just the truth. that's why i need everyone watching this program tonight to do two things for me. take a deep breath. pump the brakes a little bit. because even with all the scary news about omicron the basic message remains the same. wear masks in public, especially if you're indoors, avoid crowded indoor gatherings, get vaccinated and get a booster if it's been more than six months. we're going to get to everything you need to know about the omicron variant in just a second with dr. vin gupta. but there is a bigger question here that i wanted to explore tonight. how do we make sense of all the news aboutal this variant witho actually being alarmist or perhaps worse, complacent? you know, for a case study on how not to handle the situation, let's take a look at how public health experts handled the early days of the pandemic in 2020, particularly around the area of masking. now, if you've got an anti-vaxx friend, which i'm sure some of you do, you've likely heard from them overhe the past two years, you know, from dr. fauci and others talking about, you know, masks and how they once said we didn'tid need to be wearing mas. now, at the time there were concerns about ppe shortages. and there not being enough ppe for firstg responders. but that's not what they said at first. in e-mails from 2020 fauci said masks were not likely to be effective and surgeon general jerome adams at the time said mats kz could increase the risk of catching covid. the guidance has been updated. it's evolved as we've come to understand that masks are an effective tool to limit the spread of the virus. but it would have been better to be up front about the need to makeou sure that first responde had enough masks first. now, listen, i'm not trying to beat a dead horse here about masking or rag on dr. fauci any more than he normally gets from critics and certainly those on the right. but that lack of candor early on created a little bit of doubt and confusion. and doubt and confusion leaves room for the bad faith actors, many of them in the republican party, on the right,f to put out counter messaging that is actively harmful in our fight against this pandemic. i now here's something to keep in mind.w the anti-vaxxers and the covid deniers don't have to be right to convince people. they can say whatever they want about this virus or any other virus. it doesn't have to be true. so long as the people listening to them buy it. and they are. but public health officials don't have that luxury.d their currency is based on trust. at the end of the day, they have to get this right.on they have to strike the right balance to win over the american public. joining me now is hayes brown, an msnbc daily columnist and editor. dr. vin gupta. he'sgu an msnbc medical contributor as well as pulmonologist and global health policy expert. and dr. kristen watson, public health expert from the johns hopkins center for public security decision science and f risk assessment. it's great to have all three of us with tus. this is an important creation to have and i like to have it ever couple of months when i have the chance because o i think it's relevant as we learn new details about new variants and maybe even new potential pandemics. dr. gupta, let me start with you. before we go any further about the messaging, give us and our viewers the very latest scientific information we know about the omicron variant in terms ofth how contagious it is are vaccines still effective, is it any more deadly? what do we know? >> ayman, good evening. it's great to be here on this panel with hayes and dr. watson. this is what i'll say for all your viewers out i there, that these headlines are okay, that this is what -- this is not surprising rather. so far, ayman, what we're seeing is there is noai epidemic of yog otherwise healthy people who got vaccinated who may have even had the booster stateside or in south africa who ended up in the hospital requiring icu level care, even hospitalization level care outside the icu. what we do see in south africa is exponential growth of this variant across provinces like gauteng and others meaning it's a contagious virus, it's spreading, there's community transmission and that's something to keep mu in mind, especially if you're an unvaccinated individual, that you're more likely to catch this, more of this virus is likely to build up in your nose and your lungs, you're more likely to get sicker and end up in the hospital. but for everybody else here, and i know we're going to talk about messaging in a second, it seems reassuring. again, it's early. but it's reassuring that the vaccines are holding up. >> it's good to know. i appreciate you setting that record for us straight. dr. watson, be first, be right, be credible. that's the goal, or at least that's what they teach you in crisis communications. and this certainly was a global crisis. iba don't think any country particularly in the world handled it correctly. but let's focus on the united states for a moment. from your perspective and your area of expertise as a messaging expert how are officials handling this chapter of the pandemic, the omicron variant? have they learned from their mistakes early on in this pandemic? becausehi i've been one of thos that's been a little bit critical of highlighting every time we see omicron pop up in a state, the alerts, the flash alerts, the news headlines suddenly pop up on our phones, detected in georgia, one case detected in connecticut. we've been saying it is potentially going to be i adominant variant, it could be a dominant variant, excuse me. why thear alarmist messaging th it's popping up all over our country when we know it's most likely going to be everywhere? >> yeah, thanks for that question. i think because we're in the phase where there's so much we still don't know about this variant and there are some concerning traits here. there are also some good signs, as dr. gupa just highlighted. but i think it's important for us to be very vigilant about it and that's why public health and the health care system are trying to look out for every case that we can and i'm sure that's why it's c also in the news, because we're being hypervigilant. i think there's a lot of good messaging out there right now about what people can do to keep themselves safe, which you highlighted at the beginning of the segment. we alsof need to tell them whye think these steps are going to keep them safe. so i think there's good messaging. there's also a lot of talk about this and people shouldn't panic at this point but it is important to watch this variant and see how it evolves and that will inform our public health steps next. >>m hayes, speaking of the med here, how much fault does the media deserve fors some of the conversation about o omicron throughout theer pandemic? is the media industry unfortunately incentivized to hype up these variants, to create a sense of an alarm when we as i mentioned see it popping up on our phones and the headlines that omicron detected in this state or in this neighborhood or this community? >> on the one hand, we do have a job as journalists to put that information out there. i mean, people want to know whether there are variants popping up around them in their state, et cetera. so on theat one hand i don't ble news outlets for jumping on this and saying, look, we're finding cases here, here, and here. that is information that the people do need to know. especially since there's so much we don't know and the fact that what we do know't is concerning. the fact that this is a disease, variant that spreads more quickly than what we've seen before. on the flip side what you're saying about push alerts, et cetera, i agree we can go too hard. we can push it too far out there too quickly when there's a lot we don't know. i feel like there should be way more heng inghedging in our bus when it comes to variants,g wh it comes to the pandemic in general. i feel like there's a lack of willingness at times to say we don't know. because people don't like to hear that. and i understand that fact. people want facts from their leaders. they want facts from their news organizations. they want concrete things, tangible things and ideas they can connect d to, not to hear w don't know. even if in this case that really is the case. and i really think that news outlets and other media companies should really lean intodi acknowledging and pushin the fact that we don't know a lot about the omicron variant yet. >>ri there are certainly health experts and officials are doing a much better job this time around by saying we're going to need two to w three weeks to ge clarity on some of thee critic questions. dr. gupta,of want to bring you into this part of the conversation which is about messaging. and just indulge me for a moment because i want to play devil's advocate. libs to this clip from dr. francis health the director of the national institutes of health he's responding to a question about whetherre there should be more restrictions on domestic travel. watch. >> if you tried to impose those kinds of restrictions on domestic air travel that would be extremelyon onerous for peop who are trying to get around the countryng for things like holidays, and i don't know how much we'd gain by it. if we're worried about whether you're trying to protect some community from delta, well, delta's allel over the place rit now. there's not some chance that you're going to seee' it spready air travel that's not happening already in communities. so i thinkha we've got it about right. ? all right. so give me your thoughts on the messaging around this. and here's what i mean by playing devil's advocate. i travel overseas quite frequently, for work, for pleasure, and certainly been doing it morepl frequently. when i come into the united states, i have to get a vaccine -- not a vaccine card. a pcr test before i fly into the u.s. somebody who's watching that right now and just saw dr. collins explain that it's too onerous domestically, what would you say to them about why you needed to travel if you're coming into the united states but you wouldn't need it to connect from new york somewhere else into the united states? >> ayman, you're right. it makesre no sense. it's m completely inconsistent here that somehow a traveler overseas is at greater risk of transmitting ais conceing variant and a traveler within the continentaltr united states. it doesn't make sense. and i disagree, as much as i respect dr. collins, that's confusing messaging. that doesn't make sense. we should be mandating proof of vaccination before you board a flight in the united states or a test before youn board that flight. the same policy should apply. can i just say more broadly for all viewers out there -- >> absolutely. >> it's important to get this out rtthere. and i say that as a pulmonologist. in two weeks' time, three weeks' time, pfizer, moderna, other companies i'm sure are going to come out withi' headlines to sa vaccine effectiveness has declined to x percentage at preventing a positive test. and that's going to cause fear and g alarm. it is contingent upon everybody to know that there is no vaccine thatno exists in this world pri to covid, throughout this pandemic, that will prevent a positive test or mild symptoms. that just doesn't exist.es for flu. now for covid-19. again, i say this as a lung doc. that these vaccines now in moving forward the success by which they should be measured against, their definition of success is to keep you away from the hospital without severe pneumonia. any other definition we'll never be able to attain success at scale across the world. we'll be chasing our tail. that is the definition of success. and we have not been able to message on that definition because we've not been messaging on the nuance of what the immune system does. we talk about antibodies, not so much about t cells which are what help prevent severe re infection. all those measures are still veryas resilient in somebody that's vaccinated which which is why we're seeing what we're seeing among most people who are coming down withos omicron, it' not that big of aow deal. so we're going to see more in the next two or t three weeks b i urge caution when those headlines come out not to overreact. >> i greatly appreciate you bringing that point up because if you use that as i ameasure of success the truth is and the hard facts are that we are successful right now because hospitalizations are down, deaths are down and that trend will likely continue so long as people remain vaccinated and committed to socialcc distancin and wearing masks. dr. watson, president biden himself acknowledged the difficulties of getting everyone on the same page when it comes to covid-19. take a listen to this. >> my plan i'm announcing today pulls no punches in the fight against covid-19, and it's a plan that i think should unite us. i know u covid-19 has been very divisive in this country. it's become a political issue. which is a sad, sad commentary. it shouldn't be. but it has been. >> how are public health agencies, dr. watson, adapting to the realities of what the president there and others have noted, of our political situation when developing messaging? is there any more that could be done?ld because i look at, you know, right-wing media, i track it, i watch it. they're saying president biden promised to end covid. he has failed to end covid. so they're just focusing on the fact that covid still exists during thet era of biden, completely politicizing the realities of how we deal with this pandemic. >> yeah, look, this is a really hard thing to do at this point. i think people are pretty entrenched. i think the best a that we can right now is try to address people's concerns and fears. sometimes that has to happen at a retail level, person to person. and it's still a hard sell sometimes. but i think one thing we have to emphasize, although i agree with everything that dr. gupta said, i do worry about the health care system. ifhe we have a big surge of patients because this variant appears to be more transmissible, that can still overwhelm the health care system. so i think some of theel messagg that we need to put out there right now is that we need to take these precautions, we need to mask up, we need to avoid these crowded indoor areas that are not well ventilated, and vaccinate. vaccination won't get us all the way there. it willt protect individuals fm severe illness and death. but we also need to protect our communities and make sure that we keep a very already overwhelmed and depleted health care system out of hot water this winter. >> yeah, and hayes, to that point the flip side to that is politicians trying to seize on the coronavirus for their own gains. we can'tow talk about biden and covid without this t moment, talking about his independence day remarks from the summer. watch this. >> 245 years ago we declared our independence from a distant king. today we are closer than ever to declaringan our independence fr a deadly virus. that's not to say the battle against covid-19 is over. we've got19 a lot more work to . back then we had the power of an idea on our side. today we have the power of science. >> and again, you know, the president getsyo hammered for those remarks from right-wing media because they usually don't play them in the full context like what't we just did there, which is saying we still have a lot more work tois do. but whyor do you think politicians, you know, want to try to y claim a victory over a pandemic that we know is going to be with us for such a long time? >> it's part of the metaphor that we use way too often when it comes to talkingte about the pandemic, which is this is a fight, this is a battle, this is a war. and wars have to be won decisively with unconditional w surrender. that's how it is in america.'s and i think going to dr. gupta's point, that's part of the we're really having to work against, this idea that there's such a thing as total perfect security. it's not just covid. you see it throughout theto american political system. you see it in immigration, counterterrorism. this idea that americans want to be 100% safe from anything that couldfe harm them. and that just doesn't exist. there are -- there are problems that are in this world that cannot be 100% eradicated. and that i think is hard to message to the american people in a way that doesn't sound defeatist, that doesn't sound as though you're trying to depress people really. so try toso walk that fine line between the soaringfi rhetoric thate biden had on july 4th an the harsh reality that, you know, this virus is going to be around for a while, the variants are going to spread, we don't know when we're going to be able to say now'r everyone can just burn their mask, we don't care anymore. not knowing is hard for people. and i really like sympathize with the people out there who are really strugglingwi with al of the uncertainty out there because the best i can offer them is the fact that yeah, we are upset too. we know that things are hi uncertain. but we're trying to get the best information out t there to you possible. >> really quickly, dr. gupta. we just have a few seconds left. should we start messaging we need to learn how to live with covid instead of trying to defeat covid? >> absolutely. and this is part of endemicity. the vaccines hopefully protecting against it. also we really need the cdc yesterday to update the definition of what fully vaccinated is to three doses. this initialto series being thr doses. if we want everybody to get it. because it's really confusing right now to say fully vaccinated with two but oh, by the way, get the third shot. >> dr. vin gupta, hayes brown, dr. crystal watson, it it is a fascinating conversation. i'm so grateful we had you three with us tonight. thank you so much for joining us. still ahead the pressure is on for congress to address the rising economic issues ahead of the midterm elections. i'm going to speak with congresswoman susan wilde when we come back. plus there's a new sheriff in silicon valley. we're going to take a look at twitter's new ceo anda how he' already making waves his first week on the job. but first richard lui is here with the headlines. hey, richard. ayman. on that note we've got some news for you on donald trump's social media company. it says ital entered into dealso raise $1 billion from a group of undisclosed investors. the trump media and technology group is also working to release a messaging app called truth social, something similar to mi twitter, sometime next year. at least 14 people have been killed in a volcanic eruption on indonesia's javan island.si rescue workers are still searching for remaining r survivors. but thick mud, lava and debris are slowing efforts. and a warning tonight. honda is recalling more than 700,000 suvs and pickups after itnd it found hoods can open whe drivers are on the rod. that affects you if you drove 2019 passports, 2016 through 2019 pilots or 2017 through 2020 ridgeline pickups. more "ayman" with ayman mohyeldin right after this. ith mohyeldin right after this it only takes a second for an everyday item to become dangerous. tide pods child-guard pack helps keep your laundry pacs in a safe place and your child safer. to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. ♪ ♪ cases of anxiety in young adults are rising as experts warn of the effects on well-being caused by the pandemic. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ this may look like a regular movie night. but if you're a kid with diabetes, it's more. ♪ ♪ it's the simple act of enjoying time with friends, knowing you understand your glucose levels. ♪♪ the new sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair has the science to show that the toothpaste goes deep inside the exposed dentin to help repair sensitive teeth. my patients are able to have that quality of life back. i recommend sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair. nyquil severe gives you powerful relief for your worst cold and flu symptoms, on sunday night and every night. nyquil severe. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, best sleep with a cold, medicine. this is elodia. she's a recording artist. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist, and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. print everything you need, slap the label onto the box, and it's ready to go. our costs for shipping were cut in half. just like that. shipstation. the #1 choice of online sellers. go to shipstation.com/try and get 2 months free. so democrats, we have a problem. that is the warning coming from brian striker, a democratic pollster. striker offered some stark advice for his party ahead of the 2022 midterm elections. he cautioned that democrats have a, quote, national branding problem that is probably deeper than a lot of people suspect. according to the pollster, americans think the party is more focused on social issues than the economy. his advice came the very same day that a group of house democrats raised concerns of their own in a new letter, 22 moderate democrats pleaded with house leadership, urging them to focus on economic issues like inflation and the supply chain. joining me now is one of the leaders behind that letter, pennsylvania democrat susan wild. congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us this evening. according to the morning consult and political poll, 90% of americans say they are concerned with the economy. 87% say they're concerned with inflation. why do you think you and your colleagues had to write a letter to leadership for this issue to get noticed? >> because -- thank you, first of all, ayman. i just want to make sure that we stay focused on economic issues that are so incredibly important to every american, whether they are facing rising prices in the grocery store or at the gas pump. the fact of the matter is unemployment has plummeted. our employers that we were so worried about them having a workforce issue just a couple of months ago are now actually not filling as many jobs -- or not reporting as many jobs open because they have filled those positions. and we know that americans are spending freely. so i want to make sure that we keep economic issues at the top of the priority list for our leadership but at the same time i think that the rumors of this economic demise are greatly exaggerated. i think we're in really good shape going into 2022. >> let me read you a bit more of that interview with the democratic pollster. he says, quote, in part, "the number one issue for women right now is the economy. the number one issue for black voters is the economy. and the number one issue for latino voters is the economy." do you agree with his analysis? is the economy an issue that cuts through all of these lines that genuinely make up a strong part of the democratic base? >> absolutely. and let me just say this. you know, we passed the build back better act out of the house. i'm sure you're aware of that, and i hope your viewers are too. many of those voters that you just referenced in that prior quote are very much affected by passage of the build back better act if it gets out of the senate successfully. childcare issues are critically important to that segment of the population. those people do need to get back to work. quite honestly, many of the things in the build back better act are going to make a huge difference to people who have not felt well served by our economy. but right now what we are -- and by the way, it will also put a lot more money in people's pockets. remember, the build back better act has transformational policies that had help people with not only childcare but universal pre-k. it will help people with extending the child tax credit, which has been putting money into people's pockets every single month for the last year. we can't let that expire. the earned income tax credit. these are all things -- you know, when i said before that americans are spending at a very aggressive rate, we need to keep that happening right now, quite honestly. we're actually in good shape, but we have to get that build back better act passed through the senate. >> you talk about the state of the economy and how it's doing well. and certainly the white house would agree with you. there needs to be some tweaks to it, no doubt about it, as you mentioned, addressing inflation. but there are in the eyes of some existential threats to our democracy. voting rights being one. redistricting being another. criminal justice reform. you know, improving a lot of the social issues in this country when you have a supreme court that could potentially be overturning roe versus wade and affecting 125 million women. those are not economic issues, but certainly those are by some assessment matters of life and death, both to our democracy and to our women in this country. should those not be also a priority? are we just talking about messaging here or are we also talking about these things have to get done because quite frankly we're not seeing a lot of movement on some of these issues. >> we are talking about these things have to be done. ayman, this is not about messaging. this is literally about people's lives. whether you are talking about reproductive choice and access as necessary to abortion, when you are talking about voting rights, which is critically important, i will tell you that i have a slightly different view on this than perhaps house leadership. i think that it's very important that because we seem to have so little success getting voting rights bills through the u.s. senate i think it's time for us to take up discrete individual bills that deal with voting rights at the federal level, whether it's access to polling places, the hours that polling places are open, early voting. we absolutely have to do whatever we can, even if we take these individual issues and we break them up so that we are voting on them in a way that requires people to take an up or down vote so that it can't be one of these things that it's some massive bill that people are always able to hide behind the fact that it was a massive bill, so that's why they voted no. we have to really take these issues on one by one. and as a front line democrat running next year i'm not afraid to take these issues on. i think that this is what democrats are looking for us to take on and moderate republicans. people are looking for us to take on the tough issues and figure out how are we going to solve this, not just talk about them? >> yeah, i couldn't agree with you more on that, congresswoman. i think a lot of people watching this are going to probably be saying they want to see democrats do exactly what you're saying. so i hope the house leadership is watching this. then they get to hear from you on the need to get some of these things done. because as i said, these are some existential things both to the health of women in this country as well as to the health of our democracy. representative susan wild, great to have you with us. thank you so much. all right. still ahead i'm going to take you on a journey to my hometown of kennesaw, georgia to explain how one local, roseanne boylan, became a foot soldier in one of the most dangerous movements in america. don't go anywhere. n't go anywhe. are you one of the millions of americans who experience occasional bloating, gas or abdominal discomfort? taking align every day can help. align contains a quality probiotic developed by gastroenterologists. it adds more good bacteria to your gut to naturally help soothe your occasional bloating, gas and abdominal discomfort. support your digestive health with align, the #1 doctor recommended probiotic. try align today. and try new align fast acting biotic gummies. helps soothe occasional digestive upsets in as little as 7 days. as a professional bull-rider i'm used to taking chances. but when it comes to my insurance i don't. i use liberty mutual, they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wooo, yeaa, woooooo and, by switching you could even save 665 dollars. hey tex, can someone else get a turn? 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[ding] all right. so five people died at the capitol on january 6th. one of those people was named roseanne boyland. she was 34, lived in kennesaw, georgia. that is the same town i grew up in. in fact, roseanne's brother-in-law justin was a friend of mine in high school. roseanne went to d.c. on january 6th after becoming obsessed with the qanon conspiracy theory according to her family, and in the span of less than a year roseanne went from an apolitical woman who was devoted to her extended family to becoming an american radical. for most of her life roseanne boyland hated politics. she was shy and she rarely left her home. >> she was super involved in her family. you know, we come from a large catholic family. so we're always in each other's business. we're always hanging out. >> reporter: in the summer of 2020, though, her family started to notice that something seemed a bit off. >> she started like getting a little bit closed off and distant. and like on christmas she was here but she was just on her phone the whole time. she wasn't like participating in the opening of presents. >> reporter: roseanne began to withdraw from family compliments and instead started going down a qanon rabbit hole of child trafficking conspiracy theories. >> she's like hey, have you heard about this? and i was like no. so she researched it. so i left there at probably 5:00 in the evening and she texted me at 7:00 in the morning. she had been up all night watching youtube. >> reporter: her family wasn't sure how to handle her newfound obsession. rosanne had a history of substance abuse and they were afraid confronting her might push her away. her social media posts began to take a political taupe. >> do you believe rosanne was radicalized? >> yes. >> reporter: her family tried to talk her out of attending the january 6th rally held in washington. but she refused. she went to the rally with a friend, justin winchell, who had been one of the last people to see her alive. her family watched in horror as the events of that day unfolded. >> so we just watched the news, and the second that they said the second person died, or somebody -- yeah. there was more than one death. but i knew automatically that it was her. i just had like this gut, you know, feeling that that was her. >> reporter: late that night rosanne's family got the call they were dreading. roseanne had died at the capitol in a crowd trying to force its way past the police line. bodycam and other footage from that day paints a brutal picture. her friend justin winchell, who accompanied her to the march, can be seen in this footage dragging people out of the way in an apparent attempt to save his friend's life. >> save her! she's going to die! she's going to die! >> reporter: rosanne died but according to the medical examiner's office it was because of a prescription drug overdose. >> so do you believe that the explanation that was given by the medical examiner as to why rosanne died is not -- >> prescription adderall? >> i think that they did a rush half-hearted investigation because she was a trump supporter who died doing what she did. >> reporter: in the months since her death the boylands have sought to understand how rossean was radicalized and what exactly happened to her in those final minutes, some of which they believe were captured on bodycam video that has not been released. they also want to speak to justin winchell who was with her at the end. but he has stopped returning the family's calls and texts. >> ultimately we just want to find out what happened to her. >> now, our team spent the entire year investigating the circumstances of her death, doing our best to get to the bottom of many unanswered questions the family still has. the first episode of msnbc's newest original podcast series "american radical" is available now. in the premiere episode i head back to kennesaw to help my old friend figure out how rossean was radicalized so quickly. you can scan the qr code on your screens to listen to "american radical" now wherever you get your podcasts. still to come, twitter's new ceo is taking silicon valley by storm, but no surprise conservatives are not in his corner. er doesn't your family deserve the best? eggland's best eggs. classic, cage free, and organic. more delicious, farm-fresh taste. plus, superior nutrition. which is now more important than ever. ♪♪ hi susan! honey? which yeah?w more important than ever. i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad... try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love... plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? now get powerful relief with robitussin elderberry. 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(kate) this year, holiday better, with verizon. because everyone deserves better. if you're washing with the bargain brand, even when your clothes look clean, there's extra dirt you can't see. watch this. that was in these clothes... ugh. but the clothes washed in tide- so much cleaner. if it's got to be clean it's got to be tide hygienic clean. no surprises in these clothes! couple more surprises. jack dorsey is officially done. this week the twitter ceo raised the white flag from his blue check account after years of trying and largely failing to reform the more toxic traits of the platform. dorsey announced that he'd be stepping down. and chief technology officer parag agrawal would be stepping up. and let's just say agrawal knows how to make an entrance. in a bold move he immediately banned twitter users from publishing videos or images of private citizens without their consent. as you can imagine, many on the right weren't happy and dug up these remarks agrawal made over a year ago when he said, "twitter's role is not to be bound by the first amendment. our role is to serve a healthy public conversation." and let's be clear, public companies like twitter are not bound by the first amendment. the government is bound by the first amendment. not private companies. but after less than a week some are already saying agrawal is ready to silence free speech in this country. joining me now is an expert on all things silicon valley, katie natopolis. she's the it tech reporter for buzzfeed. katie, it's good to see you. let's start with exactly who parag agrawal is. why was he the right guy for the job at this moment? >> so he was the former cto. so in many ways very obviously a next in line person. he is a little bit unusual because he is going to be officially the youngest ceo of a fortune 500 company. he's only 37 years old. but he's been at twitter for i think almost 10 years now. so you know, he is very involved in the company. knows the tech. you know, it makes sense. the reports are that people internally are largely pleased with this. i mean, i guess except for a few people who got sort of removed in a large reorganization. but the people think that he's a good choice for the job. >> what do you make of dorsey's departure? some see it as though he threw in the towel before he was able to reform the platform. some have said he's given up on reforming the platform. what is agrawal up against here? what's currently wrong with twitter besides the obvious that we see, the toxicity of it that needs to be addressed? >> i like the question, what's wrong with twitter? i actually think twitter in the last three, four years under jack dorsey actually really made some significant changes in cleaning up the platform, making it not a horrific cesspool of abuse and harassment. that still exists on there, but there really have been significant changes both in policy and moderation and just like on a product level that actually like have made it better. and i feel like we have to give him credit for like -- they actually listened to the feedback and they made changes. i do think that was sort of a moment where jack dorsey really sort of had this come to jesus moment of being like okay, 12k3w4rur7b8g9sz we need to clean up the platform. not perfect but some decent and significant progress has been made. >> correct me if i'm wrong. he's got a little more praise than, let's say, somebody at facebook like mark zuckerberg or perhaps even people like google, the people at google, excuse me, because they own youtube, who have kind of dodged some of the same criticism that facebook has had. you don't see the same about twitter. >> yeah. and you know, they are very different companies. and it's tempting to compare twitter and facebook and the way that mark zuckerberg has -- it feels like he not only has been -- you have to like pull him dragging kicking and screaming to make significant change for the better. but that he also will make change so they can tell you it's better. you know, twitter is a little bit of a smaller platform, which makes things slightly easier. the scale is not so overwhelming. but i do think that like he did really sort of actually approach the problem of my platform is messed up. which is also a business problem for him. it's not just, you know, a problem for people on there. it makes advertisers want to flee. i think he approached it with like some amount of humility and dedication to transparency, which is very different than facebook and google. >> let me ask you quickly a little bit about the right here. because he's been at the helm of fox -- sorry, the helm of twitter for just about a week now and yet we see conservatives at fox and in other areas in the conservative media world, they're already going after him. knives out. why are they so eager to vilify this guy? >> i mean, i think if people vilified jack dorsey on both the left and the right for the same but different reasons, and the new guy you don't exactly know what he stands for. you know, he is the cto, so he's got the technical chops. but he has not dealt with policy in a significant way, which is a bit different than -- he hasn't dealt with the problems of like when do you ban the president, when do you testify before congress? you know, those are big things that you have to do as ceo that he has not done yet. and so i think it's a little bit of hey, what's this guy all about? he hasn't demonstrated what he's all about because he doesn't really have a policy background. and i think that you know, poem always -- even when, you know, jack dorsey seemed to be letting the jerks run the platform for a while people were still saying that he was, you know, stifling free speech and stuff like that. so i think they're always coming in with that bias. >> katie notopoulos, appreciate your insights. it will be interesting now that he has to make some very tough policy decisions. greatly appreciate it, katie. still ahead, last night trump, former president trump, got foiled yet again by a familiar enemy. >> instead of wouldn't. the sentence should have been i don't see any reason why i wouldn't or why it wouldn't be russia. sort of a double negative. most bladder leak pads were similar. until always discreet invented a pad that protects differently. with two rapiddry layers. for strong protection, that's always discreet. question your protection. try always discreet. ♪ ♪ well would you look at that? 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"anybody that doesn't think there wasn't massive election fraud in the 2020 presidential election is either very stupid or very corrupt." couldn't agree with you more, donald. as you can imagine, that statement immediately kicked off open mike night on twitter. some of our favorite jokes, "it's the old double negative trap laid by the deep state. trump did say his middle initial j stands for genius." and "this is why you should never use translation software in press releases. maybe it sounds better in the original russian." now, after all, this, the original tweet from his spokesperson is still up more than 24 hours later and they're doubling down. his top legal adviser even retweeted trump's statement today. i can say i didn't not see that coming. well, before we go it is a sad night here at "ayman." while you're used to seeing me on tv there is an entire team of incredible producers behind the scenes led by our fearless executive producer, a guy named patrick mcmenamin. the long-suffering cleveland browns fan helped launch this show from the very beginning creating an open environment where my producers and i are able to explore our opinions, work together to develop an amazing show for you each weekend. he's the father of two young boys who love to crash interviews and meetings asking the hard-hitting questions like what's your favorite food? but his dog bo is not a fan. in fact she often would flag us. and we've been talking far too long in our meetings by barking until patrick took her outside to play. while there's a lot we will miss, there is one thing we won't. patrick was the self-proclaimed punmaster which meant only he was allowed to make puns on our scripts. so tonight we are celebrating the team's liberation with some of our favorite dad jokes. what's the difference between the cleveland browns and the alphabet? say it with me. the alphabet has a w. why haven't aliens come to our solar system yet? they read the reviews. it's just one star. what can i say? life comes at you fast, especially when you're an ultimate frisbee player out of his prime. now that we're done and we got all the punches out let's get real here for a moment. we are very proud of patrick and very grateful for having him and having worked with him and for him. but i'm happy to say that he won't be going too far as he takes on a new role as executive producer of our peacock platform where he will oversee both maggie hassan's show and my show on peacock on fridays. i hope they realize and we all realize just how lucky we are to have patrick as our leader. so patrick, this is not goodbye. i will definitely see you on fridays. but thank you and thank you for making this show what it is. you can catch "ayman" every friday on peacock at 7:00 eastern and back here on msnbc saturdays at 8:00 and sundays at 9:00, and follow us on twitter and tiktok @aymanmsnbc. it is a good way to keep up with the upcoming guests. catch all the heelts you might have missed and a whole lot more. but until we meet again, i'm ayman mohyeldin. have a good night. real cowboys get customized car insurance with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this isn't just a walk up the stairs. only pay for what you need. when you have an irregular heartbeat, it's more. it's dignity. the freedom to go where you want, knowing your doctor can watch over your heart. ♪♪ ♪day to night to morning,♪ ♪keep with me in the moment♪ ♪i'd let you had i known it, why don't you say so?♪ ♪didn't even notice,♪ ♪no punches left to roll with♪ ♪you got to keep me focused♪ trelegy for copd. 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