the ap reporting today on the death threats now facing those 13 republicans, quote, harsh blow back that shows conservatives growing more militant, fanned by trump's bellicose time in office, the times detailing some of that blow back, quote, one caller instructed representative adam kinzinger of illinois to slilt -- slit his wrists and rot in hell. another hope, representative don bacon of nebraska would slip and fall down a staircase. the third lawmaker has been inundated with messages tagging her as a traitor. nbc news has obtained a profanity laced voice mail message sent to congressman fred upton. >> [ bleep ] traitor, that's what you are, you're a piece of traitor. i hope you die, i hope everybody in your [ bleep ] family dies. >> lawmakers, fanning the flames, marjorie taylor greene calling the lawmakers traitors, and tweeting out their office telephone numbers. matt gaetz. >> i can feel your blood pressure rising, grant, and i'm right there with you. we have the democrats on the ropes. we have the ability to make joe biden a lame duck president to stop his agenda. the question for leader mccarthy and the rest of our conference, really, is whether or not we will allow people to be designated as republican leaders on major committees and subcommittees while they fight for the joe biden agenda. >> also tonight, top democrats calling to censure house republican and trump die hard paul gosart after he posted a likeness of killing alexandria ocasio-cortez on twitter. you can see the screen grab ahead. i'll talk live to a top democrat leading the charge on this issue. all of it coming amid broader concerns from law enforcement. department of homeland security issuing this new security warning, quote, extremists have called for attacks on elected officials, political representatives, government facilities. y'all, this is not a drill. this is a real warning: these are real threats coming from the right. coming from networks, coming from individuals, coming from politicians, once again, targeting the normal workings of american government. joining me to discuss is christina greer, nbc news presidential historian, michael beschloss, streaming only on peacock. michael, i'm going to start with you because i want people to understand historically where our current times sort of fit in. this kind of vocal violence towards elected officials. it seems like every other day we're reporting on school boards and people being threatened with death, elected officials being threatened with deaths and targets on their heads in social media. how common is this era, and as we have seen in the past, what does it usually lead to is this. >> we're watching the clock be turned back to 1859 to the eve of the civil war where there was violence on the floor of congress, and there were threats of violence, but the difference is that those who were for violence and insurrection were not the democrats or the republicans. they were the secessionists that finally formed the confederacy, so in a way, this goes a step beyond the time of before the civil war. the republican party, as both of you, all of us, we all got our ba's in political science, all three of us and i'm glad you're here christina, too. and we all know that the republican party started as the anti-slavery party in the mid-1850s, the party as it soon was of abraham lincoln, civil rights, rule of law, ultimately national security. they talked a lot about law and order. that's what republicans were until relatively recently, at least professed to be, and what are they tonight, christina, and jason? they're the party that says that january 6th was not, what i think it is, and the two of you think it was, which was a violent insurrection that threatened to overthrow the government of this country. >> right. >> and rob joe biden of the presidency, and hand it to donald trump who was not elected, something we had never seen before in our history, with the help of the incumbent president, donald trump, the republicans are now the party that flirts with viktor orban of hungry, authoritarianism. you were just talking, jason, about what members of the republican party, you know, the kind of sanctions against them just for voting for an infrastructure bill. you know, the idea of james mad madson and our founders was that people would consult their conscience, and wouldn't normally be in lock step with factions, they refer to parties. all i'm saying is tonight we're in a situation where often times the republican party reminds me less of abraham lincoln than it does of mussolini. >> well said. dr. greer, so a recent poll just came out, 47%, not the majority, but 47% of republicans say that they should find space for members of their party and political leaders who describe democrats as evil. and when you take that into conclusion, you look at what gosart has done and marjorie taylor greene, if we were tweeting threats to our coworkers, we would will fired. our key cards wouldn't work when we tried to get back in the building, so not just politically, dr. greer, but what is lacking on the part of this administration that they're watching violent threats be lobbied at coworkers and staff members and none of these people are being kicked out of congress, none of them are being kicked out of the building, none are being escorted for engaged in the violent language or rhetoric that would have anybody from the university to chipotle outside the door. >> she's being silenced. >> you have a democratic party who isn't taking this as seriously as they should. we have a committee where they're talking about january 6th. any member of congress who flirted with individuals on january 6th should have been expelled from congress. we shouldn't be having that he is conversations. and as representative ocasio-cortez, the people being harassed are women, or women of color, it doesn't seem as though it's a priority. we have cori bush saying i need to move my office, marjorie taylor greene is harassing me, alexandria ocasio-cortez being harassed on the steps of congress trying to go to work. representative shirley chizlam was stabbed while she was campaigning. we need more republicans to stay this is not tolerated. they would have blood on their hands. the fact that george washington warned us about this, the framers constantly debated this, federalist ten, if your viewers haven't read it yet, reread it, read it for the first time. this is something our framers were concerned about, and we're in this moment, especially now that we have women of color who are in leadership position asks we have far too many members of the republican party who are not just threatening them but essentially, jason, you and i know this, when someone tweets at these representatives, these people of color who are representing us in congress, what they're essentially doing is saying, hey, my army of, you know bigots and racists and people who are armed to the teeth, go after them, and then unfortunately, if something happens they'll say, well i didn't do it, i don't know how that happened. it's like, you have been saying this and inciting this type of violence on a daily, consistent basis. >> i always know when i have been on right wing web sites because my e-mail is filled with lotsover colorful words. i want to play it audio from a package on the "today" show talking specifically about what you're saying on the issue not just that this is violence being directed at the right, and violence being directed in particular at women in positions of power. >> this is a way to shut you up. >> they're trying to. >> and trying to drive you from office. >> i think that's exactly what's happening. and we're seeing a lot of these threats focused on democratic women, secretaries of state. >> dr. greer, it's targeted not just racially but also gender-wise, right. >> absolutely, we can think about governor gretchen whitmer, to not just murder her and kidnap her. the members of the democratic michigan caucuses. we know that as, you know, journalist, and political scientists, and academics, you and i and our colleagues consistently get threats. mine are intersectional, as a black person and a woman, raping and lynching, par for the course that far too many people have to experience in leadership positions in elected office, and sadly, you continue to do your job, but knowing that this threat is real, and we can look at january 6th to really see the extent to which people will go to take back what they view as theirs from people who they don't view as full citizens. from people they don't view as belonging or deserving of american democracy, or american citizenship. >> michael, i want to make sure we get to this before we go to break. i have to point out, we have this other story here about book burning, the fact that you talk about going back to the 1850s, we now have republicans at school boards, conservatives at school boards saying that they want to burn books, they want to burn books that they think are sexually explicit. they want to burn books that they think have materials or information in them that they don't want their children exposed to. above and beyond the fact that anybody who was a parent or teaches kids is thrilled that a child wants to go into a brick and mortar bookstore or library and grab a book, we should be thrilled about that. what does this say about the current direction of the right you have people non-ironically saying we should be burning books. >> it's getting violent. it's getting authoritarian, and it has no sense of history because anyone with a sense of history knows that in 1938, book burning meant nazi germany, that was what was being done on , the attack of germany, and the ratcheting up of everything we came to see in the holocaust and nazi germany. dwight eisenhower, the leader of allied forces in europe, became president in 1953, we gave a wonderful commencement speech at dartmouth, a time of joseph mccarthyism, you heard the same stuff, let's ban certain books, let's cancel certain people, and eisenhower said to the students don't join the book burners. i wish eisenhower were back. >> dr. christina greer, michael beschloss, and joining me now is congresswoman spears. thank you so much for joining us this evening. i want to start with this, we have been having this conversation since the beginning of the year. what is the mood like in congress right now? what's the morale like when you have these three or four members, republicans, who are consistently attacking and threatening their colleagues. are people becoming despondent, are republicans coming to you in the cloak room and saying, yeah, i feel really bad about this, but i'm afraid to say anything. what's the mood like in congress? >> it's actually quite toxic, jason, and the fact that we have members who will make motions to adjourn regularly or force suspension bills to be taken up for roll call votes are throwing sand into the gears of the democracy that we value. and it slows the process down. the fact that we have members of congress who voted for an infrastructure bill that were republicans, and republicans on the senate side voted for that same bill, and now they're being attacked and you don't have the leader of the republican caucus, kevin mccarthy speaking up about it. he lets ms. green go ahead and post their telephone numbers, i mean, this is a truly dangerous set of circumstances. >> so you can censure paul gosar, but i don't know that censuring means anything to members of congress. whether it's go sar or marjorie taylor greene. they spend most of their time on fox or twitter, they're not really doing their jobs. is there tools at your disposal beyond censuring. if this was happening at chipotle, amazon, any government office in washington, d.c., someone engaging in the behavior that paul gosar engaged in would be suspended and they would not be allowed to come back in the building. is there anything you can do beyond censure? >> there's censure, there's reprimand, and there's expulsion. those are the vehicles we have. we can strip them of their committees, much like we have for ms. green, but in the end, if we sit silently, that's why i decided to move forward, it's tas it approval, and he keeps crossing the line, and others keep crossing the line. it's important we speak out. violence against women is a problem for this country. it's a problem for women in powerful positions around the world. 85% have been surveyed and have are approximate. i have had two persons charged for making charges against me. one was actually convicted. but we have allowed this to get out of hand, and it's time to put a stop to it. congresswoman ocasio-cortez, was chosen by mr. gosar to be killed in his little cartoon, and he to somehow minimize is that reprehensible, and to suggest that the president of the united states should be slain, it's out of control, and it's time that we force our colleagues to be held accountable. >> congresswoman spear. thank you so much for your efforts to maintain some sanity and decency in congress. i appreciate that. coming up, the defense rests in that chaotic murder trial for kyle rittenhouse. we'll talk about it with eli mustow. and the pressure grows for a criminal case against steve bannon. and on this veterans day, a special look at what america owes its vets after the end of our longest war. owes its vets after the end of our longest war. my helpers abound, i'll need you today. our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when everyone is smiling and having their fun i can turn my sleigh north because my job here is done. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. who's on it with jardiance? we're 25 million 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everyone? i try. hm... excuse me, ma'am! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. the defense is resting its case today in the trial of kyle rittenhouse, accused of murdering two black lives matter protesters, wrapping up with testimony from an eyewitness who claimed that one of the men rittenhouse killed was a threat to him. >> as the first firearm goes off, rosenbaum is already charging kyle from behind, attempts to throw a bag at him, not sure what's inside of it. rosenbaum is lunging towards him very clearly and kyle fires. >> did you observe him acting in an aggressive manner to anyone that you observed? >> in no way, shape or form. the first time i saw kyle, he actually deescalated a situation. >> that defense and contrast to prosecution claims rittenhouse knowingly crossed state lines with a rifle. the trial was marred by theatrics when rittenhouse sobbed while testifying, a move so disingenuous, even webster's dictionary had to get involved, a very different image when he was walking through the streets of kenosha, a town over four hours from his home with an ar-15 that he obtained illegally. the trial resumes on monday, the judge and lawyers will meet tomorrow to discuss legal issues. remember, the defense has filed a motion for a mistrial. the judge has not yet ruled on that but he sparred with a prosecutor yesterday and today questioned him about the look on his face. >> is there something that i'm seeing that draws the face that you're making? >> i have to say, your honor, yesterday, i was the target of your ire for disregarding your orders, today the defense is disregarding your order. >> i was talking yesterday about the constitution of the united states. that's not what we're talking about here today. >> this judge has come under fire for bias, one lawyer who has appeared before him telling "the washington post" quote, if you get him, you are happy as a defense attorney. in another day of testimony wrapping in the trial of the man who fatally shot ahmaud arbery, greg mcmichael telling him arbery was quote trapped like a rat. >> when asking gregory michael to speculate about what's going through the mind of arbery, what does he say on lines three through six. >> he was trapped like a rat. i think he was wanting to flee and he realized that, something, you know, he was not going to get away. >> he was not going to get away. the perfect guess to break all of this down with. eli mustal joins me live in 60 seconds, you don't want to miss it. s it move your high-interest debt to a sofi personal loan. you could save with low rates and no fees. earn $10 just for viewing your rate and get your money right. ♪ nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. andyou get advice like:t. try hypnosis... or... quit cold turkey. kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette . joining me now is elie mystal, justice correspondent for the nation and lewis black of lawyers and politics, thank you so much for joining me this evening. now, i want everyone to understand what is actually happening in the kyle rittenhouse trial right now. you have tweeted and talked about the fact that the judge is racist, and you think that impacts how he is managing this trial. first, just for the audience to understand, why do you say that this judge is racist, and how does that actually impact the trial? because those are words that get thrown around a lot in the tucker carlson's and glen's get upset because they're used to defending people like that. why does that matter and why did you make that charge? >> he has a history of disregarding civil rights information on rulings and that sort. if you look at his specific history in this case, all of his pretrial motions tended to favor the defendant, favor kyle rittenhouse, even leading up to this trial, and certainly his behavior in the trial, as the presiding officer of the trial has just been grotesque in terms of his combativeness with the prosecution, his willingness to let the defense slide on many issues, his american flag tissue box, his cell phone ring tone that is actually the same song that was played at the beginning of the trump rallies, which by the way, is one of the only songs that trump doesn't get a cease and desist letter whenever he uses it. it's never just one thing, and that's the thing that i think other people have trouble understanding. it's not just one issue or one decision. i'm not saying one plus one equals two. i'm saying one plus one plus one plus one plus one equals five, and you can defend any individual decision, when you look at the policy of his actions, what you have is a racist biassed judge putting his thumb on the scale in every way he can for the defense and for rittenhouse in this case. >> i suspect if there was a judge at a trial who, you know, when their phone played it was a black lives matter anthem or something like that, or screw the police by public enemy, people would have a problem with that, yet this guy is able to get away from everything he is doing. i want to play audio from today that speaks to your point, and get your thoughts on the other side. this is something that randomly came out of judge's mouth today talking about ordering food for lunch during the trial. >> let's hope for 1:00. i don't know. hope the asian food isn't on one of those boats in long beach harbor. >> who says asian food. who actually says that. but elie, this sort of speaks to what you're talking about. i mean, it's this sort of off color, insensitive racist commentary. the first question people have whether or not they're not following you or just picking up this trial, what can be done about a judge like this. all of these things that you have laid out, which seem to me, to be reason to call a mistrial or seek a change of venue, because clearly this guy has biases that are affecting the administration of this case. >> yeah, unfortunately nothing can be done. he's an elected judge, the time to get rid of him, during, whenever he was last up for election, as i understand it, haven't independently verified it, i have seen that he was initially appointed to his position by a democrat, by a democratic governor, which kind of goes to show how little democrats pay attention to the courts in these situations. look, the judge is the king of his or her own courtroom. there is very little that can be done, even this kind of motion for a mistrial, who gets to decide, the judge gets to decide whether or not he is so prejudiced that he needs to order a mistrial. you think that's going to happen. sure, there's a chance to appeal and appeal, and remember, this is another thing people kind of forget, generally mistrials favor the defense. what's going to happen on friday is that the defense is asking for a mistrial, and to dismiss the case with prejudice so rittenhouse can never be tried again. if that motion gets denied, if rittenhouse is acquitted that decision cannot be appealed because that would place rittenhouse in double jeopardy, and that would be a violation of rittenhouse's fifth amendment rights. once you draw a bias, prejudice judge in our state court system, there's very little you can do about it, and quite frankly, every african-american attorney i know knows that. i don't think the prosecution has been bad. i think that sometimes twitter is a little bit mean. i don't think they have been bad at their job: i do think they were not ready to go up against a judge that's not on your side because usually prosecutors expect a judge to be on their side. so, you know f you look at the difference between this prosecution, versus derek chauvin. came out with the defense trial energy. he had a dream team. he had a defense. he was ready for anything, and i don't know that this prosecution team was ready to fight not yus rittenhouse's defense lawyers but also the judge. it's a huge problem. >> when the judge asked the entire room if there are any veterans here and demands that the entire room clap for a veteran, and one veteran in the room happens to be the expert witness coming forth to testify on behalf of kyle rittenhouse, that's an example of a pretty biassed courtroom. elie mystal, thank you so much for your time. we'll bring you back as we're going through the rest of this trial. >> thank you. ahead, breaking news on the riot committee and the records trump wants to keep secret, plus, pressure mounts on trump's former chief of staff to cooperate. and later, malcolm nance on the first veterans day to take place without troops in an active war zone in 20 years. we'll be right back. e war zone in 20 years we'll be right back. ... no sugar. no pizza. no foods you love. stressed? no stress. exercise. but no days off. easy, no? no, no, no, no with freestyle libre 2, you can take the mystery out of your diabetes. now you know. sir? you know 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tomorrow after a judge ruled they couldn't be blocked. trump doing anything he can to keep it in the closet. right now, he's buying time. but the probe is still getting closer to trump with a slew of new subpoenas this week. today trump's chief of staff mark meadows seems to be listening to the old boss and is ready to risk it all, refusing to comply with his subpoena. quote, under the instructions of trump to respect long standing principles of executive privilege. the white house rejecting his executive privilege claim because there is no executive privilege here. this is called executive fear. now, any prosecutor for trump ally stone walling comes down to attorney general garland. oh, boy, steve bannon was held in criminal contempt of congress, and we have seen no action on the prosecution from garland. pressure is on garland to, you know, do something, as trump feels the heat with documents one step away from heading to the committee. joining me now is former chief spokesperson for the justice department matt miller, and national correspondent for politico, betsy woodruff swan. thank you so much for being here this evening. matt, i'll start with you, count me in the group of people who are extremely frustrated with the department of justice that steve bannon has not been brought in a black and white striped outfit in shackles. it seems they are moving very slowly on many of these prosecutions. we are told occasionally by department of justice they are crossing t's and dotting i's, what is taking so long on bannon, and if this is how long it takes on somebody clearly in contempt, what can we expect down the road as more information comes forward from the committee. >> i think what you have to remember about doj is this is a place before they decide where to go to lunch, 25 lawyers have to write a memo laying out their opinion, and have three or four meetings. it is a nano second in d. o.j. time, the way they usually go about making decisions. there are complicated issues that they have to work through before making the decision. i think they do want to make sure they get this case right. that's obviously very important, but i do hope what they're cognizant of is in this case, getting it right, also means getting it quick because this case is not just about holding steve bannon accountable for defying the committee's subpoena, it's also about sending a signal to all of these other witnesses. i think mark meadows, he might roll the dice and say, look, i'm going to have good counsel, a better, stronger executive privilege claim than bannon does. a lot of them will say, i don't want to tangle with doj, i don't want to risk racking up dollars with bills, and i'm going to come and cooperate. so i hope that the department is cognizant of that, and is going to move quickly to reach a final decision in this. >> if we look at this from sort of inside congress, what is the feeling about the effectiveness of the january 6th committee at this point, took a lot of difficulty to put it together. republicans didn't want to participate. most are pushing against it one way or another. one of the biggest people who has been brought in, hey, i'm hot coming to court. he's in defiance. is there confidence that this committee is going to really accomplish anything because right now it seems like the greatest revelations we have gotten have been from a rolling stone article in the "washington post." what is the faith in congress right now on the effectiveness of the january 6th committee? >> the situation is highlighting the fact that congressional subpoenas just don't currently have the power that members of congress would like them to have. the reality is that even if doj brings charges against bannon, it could be too little, too late to actually have an effect on the subpoena working by getting members of congress, not just the information they want but when they want, at the point of the investigation, when they need that information. one thing that has been discussed on the hill, that i believe congressman schiff is talking about is legislating, passing new laws to make these congressional subpoenas more muscular. that's the thing that should have bipartisan support. every member of congress loves being able to do investigations and force people to come in. it's very much one of the few issues that republicans and democrats are excited about, it's hard to see if that legislative effort is going to get serious momentum in the coming months, there's so much congress has to do, there's a lot of folks with their hair on fire over there, and i think the likelihood that they make this type of change in the next few months is pretty low, but this january 6th situation as it continues to really frustrate the members of that committee is something that without question is going to heighten the appetite for some sort of legislative change for congress to say the status quo is not working, we're congress, we can change the status quo. >> so matt, i'm wondering about this, there's a -- i want to know what the chart is here, right, you've got a former president of the united states, the retiree hanging out in florida is trying to keep documents from getting into the hands of the january 6th committee, and judges have said hey, sometimes you can't. when the january 6th committee gets documentation are they free to give it to the doj. how much is the doj working with the january 6th committee to prosecute people involved in the terrorist attack on january 6th. are they parallel attacks or sharing information in order to get to the bottom of this. >> they won't be sharing information in realtime as the investigations going forward. they are kind of going on separate tracks but the committee always has the ability at the end of its investigation or anytime in the middle of the investigation if they find something that they think is important to send it over to d. o.j., usually they would do that at the end when they write a splash write report. they like to have publications, to draw attention, and at that time they would have a referral. there's no statute of limitations, a long time before this investigation is over, and still many more years for doj to investigate and prosecute. that's not a concern. if they found something urgent, there's nothing stopping them from calling the attorney and getting something over right away. >> when you talk about getting something right away, things moving faster, and this is the question i get. travis scott can get in trouble for putting on a concert, and getting people to riot. there are folks that are going to get arrested for that, and we have members of congress and a former president involved in leading a terrorist attack on the white house, and we still are getting sentences that are 14 months and 13 months, and 48 hours and people still being given free time to go on hunting trips, and vacations and everything else like that. i know that the department of justice is supposed to be apolitical, but is there any concern from your former colleagues that the lack of punishment being meted out against people against this country is making the department of justice look weak or feckless by american citizens concerned about safety. >> i think the doj is concerned people don't think they're doing the job they're supposed to not just because they worry about their personal reputations but it's important the public have faith in law enforcement doing its job. look, you have seen judges, the chief judge for the district court in d.c. express some concern that doj is coming and talking about these as the crime of the century and recommending low sentences. i think as more cases work through, the ones that have mostly pled out so far have been some of the lower level infractions. you did see a sentence this week between three and four years for the, you know, the guy who was waving the flag on the floor of the u.s. senate, and as we get to some cases, you know, the proud boys, and the oath keepers, that's where i think you will see more serious sentences than the ones who entered the capitol and were there. >> matt miller, and betsy woodruff swan, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. ahead, fw clark, the man who freed mandela and brought an end to apartheid has died. we'll take a look at his complicated legacy. and honoring our veterans, what we must do to take care of those who have sacrificed. malcolm nance is here next. malcolm nance is here next a group of investment professionals manages ben's ira for him, analyzing market conditions and helping him stay on target. he gets one-on-one coaching when he wants some advice, and can adjust his plan whenever he needs to. and now he's so prepared for retirement, ben is feeling totally zen. that's the planning effect from fidelity. instantly clear everyday congestion ben is feeling totally zen. with vicks sinex saline. for fast drug free relief vicks sinex. 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disorder. slightly higher than the general population. a doj report estimates more than 100,000 veterans are behind bars. a third of them for drug offenses. over 9 million veterans enrolled in the veteran's health care system, but many still struggling to get care. nearly 20 million appointments were delayed or cancelled due to covid. a crisis hot line spiking as veterans grapple with the after math of the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. biden today pledge to go address these issues for a community that sacrificed so muchl. so much. joining me now is malcolm nance, a u.s. veteran, happy veterans day. >> thank you. >> you have served. i grew up in a military family, lots of military veterans in my family. how is this veterans day, just in the community, different because it's the first time that we don't have a major, major, major investment in troops abroad. is this a time of reflection? is this a time to sort of look at our wounds. how is this veterans day different amongst many soldiers who have served? >> well, i think we are still sort of in a period that's after glow of the withdrawal from afghanistan. and for the average american, they're really not seeing anything different about veterans day. it's the veterans community, as you mentioned earlier on in your blog, it's the veterans community that's really feeling this, and you know, the afghan war, which was called a forever war 20 years in activity there, we still have low intensity conflict occurring all over the world, our deployments in africa command have u.s. troops in harm's way every day, same thing in iraq and syria. they're still striking fighter forces and special forces hovering around the fringes of afghanistan. what's different, as you say, we do not have a massive troop deployment rotating in and out of afghanistan in a country that we essentially broke and had to own. i'm not quite sure that, you know, even the american public on a day where you can go to apple bee's and get a free lunch, and tell someone thank you for your service, remember, what these real sacrifices were come tomorrow. the president on the other hand has the opportunity to become a real leader in chief, a commander in chief here and take this gauntlet away from the republicans who are trying to use it as a cluj l. there's many things the veteran community can do, and he can do besides have besides have the occasional medal of honor ceremony. which that in mind, i want to play this audio from president biden today and get your thoughts on whether he is doing enough and whether he is communicating he is doing enough, on the other side. this is him speaking earlier today. >> 53,323 servicemen and women wounded in the flakts in iraq and afghanistan. 7,074 gave their lives. we're going work with republicans and democrats to make sure our veterans receive the world-class benefits that they've earned, keeping the needs of veterans front and center. >> do you think he is in a position now, given the difficulties he's had, do you think president biden is in a position now to establish himself as hey, i am the great post-war president who will make sure that our soldiers, men and women are taken care of? >> well, he could. and let me play donny deutsch here for a minute. let me give him a little branding assistance in terms of this. donald trump and his administration literally pretended like they were responsible for everything. any decision they made, even if it was detrimental to our troops like donald trump saying that there were no injuries after 13 2,000 pound missiles slammed into our base in iraq after the killing of hassan suleimani, and telling them they don't have an injury, they don't have anything going on with them is absolutely ludicrous. so for the most part, for president biden, he can jump up and take the mantle of i'm going take care of them. and the first thing he should do is he should immediately break the 39 wounded and give them their purple hearts at the white house. and remind them that traumatic brain injury is a very, very serious matter. and then from that point onward, transmit that you're going to have a medal of honor ceremony to someone other than c-span. make sure that the media is there. make sure that military families are there. the right wing is using military families as a weapon. and let me tell you something. when people say thank you for your service, my response is no, don't thank me. thank my wife. thank my kids. thank my mother that had seven nances in the navy at one time, including her husband who joined at 15 in world war ii. those military families need to be honored. i would bring them to the rose garden and help them put the roses back inside that place and honor them every day. michelle obama did that. and you know what? because they didn't really want to highlight that, they really didn't get a lot of -- they didn't get a lot of political capital out of it. >> right. i'll tell you this, malcolm. you are exactly right in honoring the families of veterans. there was a story today about one of the last survivors of tulsa who also served in world war ii. and he hasn't gotten all the full benefits of the gi bill. look, president biden, if you really want to make a difference, make a difference to people who survived a massacre 100 years ago before they went and served this country. malcolm nance, thank you so much for your service. thank you for coming on tonight. >> my pleasure. ahead, nelson mandela and the death of f.w. de klerk, the last president of apartheid south africa. inking the choices they make like the splash they create the way they exaggerate the surprises they initiate. otezla. it's a choice you can make. otezla is not an injection or a cream it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. 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that reminds us how democracies are often born through struggle and the cry for freedom. the last president of apartheid south africa f.w. de klerk has died. he was 85 years old. the clerk got to tag along with nelson mandela for the nobel peace prize in 1993, despite only one of them being truly committed to white rule. many describe deklesch's term as complicated. did enough decent things late in life that we have to mention it. de klerk defended racial apartheid until the moment he became president in 1989, when he abruptly reversed course and released mandela from prison. later mandela said de klerk wasn't the great emancipator many believed him to be, writing, he did not make any of his reforms with the intention of putting himself out of power. he made them for precisely the opposite reason, to ensure power for the afrikaner. where black people were routinely given passes to enter white neighborhoods. where black people were routinely killed by police lasted over for 70 years. it was changed by internal and international pressure. protests around the world to sanction south africa led to pressure on big businesses. coca-cola withdrew from the nation in 1986. american college campuses protested, demanding that schools divest from the south african government. this included historically black colleges and universities, which is everyonified by an episode of a difficult world that i remember watching as a kid. >> we can't accept money from a company that supports a system based on racial segregation and exploitation. >> kim didn't create apartheid. why should she have to suffer? >> because she has responsibility. we all do to the brothers and the sisters in south africa. >> love it. unlike the united states, once de klerk was out of power, south africa didn't deny its racist past, but held a truth and reconciliation commission to expose the human rights abuses and crimes committed in the name of racial apartheid. this has allowed the country to make the long and difficult journey to a more functioning and inclusive democracy, perhaps taking responsibility for the past, actively including all citizens in elections and not honoring racist former leaders are a series of lessons that the united states could adopt as well. that does it for me tonight. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. hi, joy. >> how you doing, jason? and thank you for talking about south africa. it's really important because i think it is a country that is so similar to ours. >> right. >> and african americans understand how similar their history is to ours. it's a pretty big deal that de klerk has passed away. they learned apartheid from the american south. so we're partially responsible too. >> they did. they absolutely patterned apartheid off of the american south. well said. thank you very much, my friend. have a great evening. all right. good evening to all of you. we begin "the reidout" tonight with paging ray bradbury. >> i set the books on fire. >> that's good. that's what i like to see. sweet reason.