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who was in the room with trump as the attack unfolded on capitol hill. this comes amid a battle over documents and the release of documents from the trump white house. overnight, the ex-president filing an emergency request to block the national archives from giving the 1/6 records. the judge wasted no time shooting down donald trump's request in just hours calling it quote, premature. the final decision by the same judge on trump's records is due any day now. that decision and the decision by doj as to whether or not to prosecute steve bannon for defieing a congressional subpoena from the select committee will have huge consequences for the committee's investigation and frankly, the rule of law in this country moving forward. the january 6 select committee closing in on the roles of donald trump's inner circle is where we start this hour. joyce vance is here. former u.s. attorney, now professor at the university of alabama school of law. also, "washington post" congressional correspondent, author of the early 202 newsletter. eugene daniels is here, politico white house reporter. joyce, i want to start with you. with the question about an investigation. i mean, the investigation now has some public facing evidence of where it is focused and this list seems to be on the witnesses to donald trump's conduct. is that how you see it? >> that's exactly how i see it. you can tell a lot about where an investigation is headed from the witnesses that are being called. these are people who were literally in trump's inner circle, but also the folks that he talked to leading up to january 6th. so nicolle, if the key question in watergate was what did the president know and when, the january 6 committee is going to ask those questions, but they're also intent on cutting straight to the chase in figuring out what did the president and what was he willing to do to get it. >> i think it's clear there's a whole lot of focus on two aspects of donald trump's conduct. i worked in the white house. i know what these positions are. nicholas luna served as the former president's personal assistance, was in the office on the morning of january 6 when the president was on the phone with vice president pence. the personal assistant sits in this real tight space right outside the oval office. if the door is ajar, they can hear everything that happens. molly michael served as special assistant to the president. now, i don't know anything about who sat where, but that person has a lot of physical proximity. it seems the committee is looking for eyewitnesses to what the president said as you're pointing out with your parallel, when he said it and who on this list may not maybe already be a pardoned felon willing to roll the dice with contempt of congress. >> that's one of the big issues here. will anybody be interested in taking on the john dean role? sorry for the watergate metaphors today. we have not seen someone from trump's inner circle who is willing to publicly come forward and tell the truth. look, we were on the wrong track, the american people deserve to know. >> i want to talk about another witness who was subpoenaed today. mr. john mcatee. jackie, i believe he was in and out for a while then back in. this is what jonathan carl writes about him in the atlantic. the man who made january 6th. he sent the memo to pence's chief of staff. jefferson used his position to win. constitution sets precise requirements for which the states are to submit their electoral votes. georgia's submission dramatically failed to conform to the requirements. jefferson provided a counting of the ballots. had they been rejected, jefferson would have likely lost the election. senate tellers told jefferson in a loud voice there was a problem with the georgia ballots. he ignored the problems and announced himself the winner. this proves the vp has the minimum to address issues with the electoral process. this proves that there was more than the eastman memo in term of white paper architecture for the coup attempt. >> which is super fascinating. johnny has been long known as the president's hatchet man. his long time confidant. has been a trump loyalist to the bitter end. i think what you see the committee doing here is as joyce pointed out, going in on trump's closest allies. some of the people that were in the room and white house throughout the days and months leading up to january 6th and who were part of his legal advisers providing him with quote unquote legal advice. that ranged from people like johnny and to people like mike rendell, rudy giuliani. there were a number of different circles of legal advisers who have been identified through reporting and the committee's going to continue to be very interested in them. the way congressman raskin described it is that there were three rings of activity. the outer, which was a mass demonstration. a middle ring, the violent insurrection that was made up of extremists then there was the closer, inner political coup. the people who were around the president, enabling him and facilitating him to be able to behave the way he did on january 6th. there are still many unanswered questions about the president's thoughts, actions, communications, where abouts on that day and this is what you see the committee still trying to zoom in on. >> mr. kellogg is an interesting potential witness. eugene, i want to read from "washington post's" robert costa and bob woodward's book. noticed the president watching television in his private dining room. next to the oval. kellogg went to see trump. he traded notes with pence's team at the capitol. quote sir, the vice president is secure. where's mike -- they're okay and he's not kwoing to get in the vehicle. he knows if they put your bleep in the vehicle, they're going to take you somewhere. mr. president, he added, you should really do a tweet. on capitol hill, nobody's carrying a tv on your shoulder. you need to get a tweet out real quick. help control the crowd out there. this is out of control. they're not going to be able to control this. sir, they're not prepared for it. once a mob starts turning like that, you've lost it, he said. yeah, trump said. trump blinked and kept watching television. eugene, kellogg is a witness to donald trump's complicity and enthusiasm for the violence. >> no, absolutely. and we've heard this over and over and over again. from reporting and a lot of these books that have come out an different sorts of reporting and politico and "washington post," "the new york times," where people constantly told donald trump that he needed to do something. he had to say something. it was time to do a speech. it was time to get in front of cameras an tell folks that this needed to stop. and what we see and hear over and over again reenforce each other and because he felt so jolted and that mike pence has been so disloyal, that he wasn't going to do that. even though these folks were walking around saying they wanted to hang his then vice president. this investigation, there are two things that are very different than almost all others we see in congress. one, so much of this happened publicly. a lot of this is months and months of lies about the election. not just january 6th. we had all these books coming out that tell you what mcatee was doing. what kellogg was doing. what people are saying to donald trump, giving the committee more to bolster their commitment that they need to speak to them. they've spoken to at least 100 people voluntarily in this conversation. it paints the picture of months an months. >> i like the way we've been separating out today's subpoenas in terms of the conduct likely under scrutiny and i want to focus in on caylee mcnany. possibly the highest profiled taxpayer profiled for donald trump. the former white house press secretary made several statements about fraud in the 2020 election. she claimed there were quote, very real claims of fraud they were pursuing and said mail-in voting was something that quote, we've identified as being particularly prone to fraud. at another conference, she accused democrats of welcoming fraud and illegal voting. in addition, she was reportedly present at times with the president while he watched the attack. she was a colleague of bill barr and chris krebs and long before the interviews, krebs and barr were a touch away from her. you can reach anybody in the administration anywhere in the world and it's important to understand this. when you speak for the president, you can reach the secretary of defense. anyone you need to because you speak for the president. so the notion she couldn't get accurate information about real claims of fraud, bill barr didn't think so. she could have called him. she didn't know this was a lie we've identified as being prone to fraud? the accusation that democrats were welcoming fraud and illegal voting was nothing that krebs had detected. so i wonder what sort of special scrutiny legally and through this committee she might face? >> it's important to remember that congress has a different role here than doj might have. congress can't indict anyone. congress' mission here is a fact finding mission and so they'll be interested in learning all of the obvious questions that we would have here. who told her to say this. did she think it was true? did she push back? there's a lot of rich information to explore with her. but ultimately, hanging over her head, she's a young woman, presumably she has future stages in her career. so far, doj hasn't seemed to get serious about prosecutions. there hasn't been accountability for any of the people involved in the big lie, but she is young enough for this to haunt her and for the risk, the threat of criminal prosecution down the road to be very serious. if she were to decide to tell the truth, she could do a lot to undo the many times she took to the podium after telling us she would never lie to us. >> it's putting it kindly. i want to go to another piece, and you're right. this isn't a criminal investigation. i don't know if evidence is the right word, but another data point about another one of the trump insiders. this one is from yesterday. she's on the campaign side. angela mccallum. this is a voice mail recording of her call to try to pressure a michigan state representative in december of 2020. >> my name is angela mccallum and i'm calling from trump campaign headquarters in washington, d.c. i know you're very busy, but i wanted to personally reach out to you on behalf of the president as you've got an opportunity to be a crucial part of his re-election. the united states constitution provides that the state legislators retain sole authority to designate the presidential electors. tomorrow, as you might be aware, presenting witnesses from michigan who will be able to show that the vote total in the state was flawed and do not accurately represent the will of the voters, constituents. you do have the power to reclaim your authority and send us a slate of electors that will support president trump and pence. there are those standing with the president to stop this voter fraud from happening under their watch. we want to know when there's a resolution in the house to appoint electorates for trump if the president can count on you to join and support. >> there were no state legislators across the country standing with donald trump to stop voter fraud because there wasn't any voter fraud. there was nothing that rudy giuliani presented in terms of experts and witnesses and witnesses from michigan that stood in court. this was a lie. she leaves it on someone's voice mail. it's sort of a combination of you know, coup adjacent criminally stupid and smoking gun. who is this person and why does she matter to the committee? >> this was someone who was obviously going out of her way, according to her, on behalf of president trump to push that these people overturn a democratic election. that is the undergirds all of this investigation is how far trump was willing to go, when the white house outside of the white house were willing to do to overturn this election. i think that is something that you know you talk to people today, voters aren't talking about this that much, right? we are talking about it a lot because it matters. members of congress are talking about it a lot because it matters. this entire time, seems like they're hoping this is going to go away, but it shouldn't because there's nothing more important than making sure the elections that we have are, people know that the elections we have are secure. it is not a thing that elections are overturned. and asking people to find votes and so all of the folks they're talking to paint this picture. the issue is what happens after this? is there any kind of actual legal accountability. congress can't do that. can't throw people in jail. so after they do all of their fact finding, it is up to the doj, it is up to other legal avenues for folks to handle that aspect of it and that's what people when i talk to, that democrats are worried about. if there's no actual accountability, if people don't get in legal jeopardy because of what happened on january 6th and the months leading up to it, could this happen again? that's what they're saying to me and a lot of other reporters. >> let me try to respond to the only other person here who's worked for the republican party. it is happening again. they've just made it easier for what's her name? angela, to get the michigan person to do what she wants because they've put in place laws in 33 states that don't just make it harder to vote. they take the brad rafn spergers off the playing field. they're working so hard to make it easier next time and i hear you on the politics. i think the other question even more daunting for democrats and the politics is where's merrick garland, joyce vance? >> well, that's the question we all want to know the answer to. obviously, garland has indicated that he's an institutionalist, he plans to play by the rules. i think that's a good idea for this reason and no other. if you're going to say start the slow march to accountability by prosecuting steve bannon, steps that i firmly believe doj needs to take because there's no real option otherwise for showing that congress has the ability to enforce its subpoena. then it's time for merrick garland to get on with it, assume he's done the work he needs to do to make sure he can get a conviction. people appointed to the fact that it only took eight days to indict the epa administrator. the last referral from congress to doj for this sort of criminal prosecution. sure, doj indicted in eight days, but they also acquitted at the trial, so doj needs to get the facts in order. it needs to get the law in order and then it needs to indict steve bannon and tell him he is not above the law. >> it's so amazing, jackie, big barr repelled career prosecutors from the cases involving trump's closest allies at certain points. i think sentencing was one of them for mike flynn or one of the others who was prosecuted and i wonder if you have any sense of where the democrats and republicans on the committee are in terms of their patience for the doj process? >> yeah, nicolle, i think that most people on the committee are eagerly awaiting merrick garland's decision. joyce making a good point that caylee mcneny is young to do to do the right thing, and potentially have a career ahead of her. on the flip side, she's also young enough to be issued from trump's republican party, which is the future of the party, and never get a job again if she, if it does become clear she has cooperated in some way and that is what a lot of these people are facing right now. especially as these subpoenas continue to be rolled out. if it becomes clear that there are going to be no serious consequences, that congressional subpoenas do not carry any tape because of garland's decision to potentially enforce or not enforce this subpoena against the contempt resolution against steve bannon, then you know, that means that for the rest of the time going forward, the committee subpoenas will be toothless. so joyce is completely right that it is key that garland make this decision sooner rather than later because then the committee is going to have to recalibrate and decide what really is best way forward is if their subpoenas no longer seem to be effective here. >> jackie, there are also named littered throughout these subpoenas and i wonder if you have a sense of how many people are voluntarily cooperating with the committee that haven't had to be subpoenaed? they've describing keith kellogg's subpoena. a participation in the january meeting with the former meeting and pat sip loney. his name has come up in a few of the letters and i believe he's reported by carol lentic and phil rutger saying he thought donald trump would be arrested ond january 6th. you also read about people like the deputy secretary of the state of georgia. i wonder how much of the investigation does before we see these big bursts of public facing evidence of what they've got. how much is happening below the surface? >> you are completely right and that's a good reminder for us to not jump to conclusions. it isn't the committee's best interest to protect them and keep the potentially news worthy items that these witnesses have been giving to the committee as quiet as possible and that's why you have seen very few leaks from this committee. vice chairman liz cheney told reporters last week that over 150 people have so far voluntarily cooperated with the committee from providing documents to providing depositions or interviews with the committee. but then in the same vein, you have people like jeffreyclark who tried to use department of justice to overturn the results of the 2020 election. that's why it's important for the committee to get access to the national archives records request because of these sort of contemporaneous notes taken by these key figures who are declining to cooperate. even if you see some of the big fish ultimately bow out and make a public stance against this committee, if there are notes and you know, records that can corroborate their role, then their cooperation won't matter. >> having worked in the white house, it is still one of the last american institutions driven by paper for reasons that sort of span the explanations from tradition and practice to security perhaps. a lot of things that happen at the white house still happen on paper. presidential speeches still on paper with a checklist next to it and i wonder, joyce, if you got all of the notes on the steven miller draft, what do you need steven miller for? >> well, i want everything as a prosecutor here. speaking not as a congressional investigator, but as a prosecutor, the most compelling issue that i have to sort out is what was in people's minds, right? starting with president trump, moving to those around him and everyone else who may have had involvement in the insurrection. if the question we're really trying to answer here is was the insurrection this sort of organic outgrowth of a group of people fueled by hate on the ellipse that morning or was it something directed top down from inside of the white house or something in between, then i need to know what people were thinking. what was in their minds. i need to documents, but also a testimony of the witnesses. >> thank you so much for your reporting and for starting us off today. when we come back, something no one working anywhere other than inside the house republican caucus could get away with. posting a video depicting extreme violence against a colleague seems to go unnoticed today by republican leadership, but waiting for clean water and bridges that don't fall down? it's a hard no for the gop. plus, pete buttigieg counting what's in the newly approved infrastructure package. taking the challenge head on, acknowledging a history of systemic racism and how america's cities and roads were first developed and how the president's ambitious new legislation will seek to fix that and later in the program, congressman sean maloney on why democrats have reason to be optimistic today. all those stories and more when we continue after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. we continue after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. to unveil them to the world. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ no, he's not in his room. ♪♪ ♪♪ dad, why didn't you answer your phone? ♪♪ your 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now characterized by numerous kooks and cranks. when you consider where the leadership of that conference is, they're talking about today removing from committees republicans who voted for a bipartisan infrastructure bill. they're saying it was for a bipartisan bill to rebuild our roads an bridges and highways. >> that was adam schiff on kevin mccarthy and paul gosar. on sunday, he posted a cartoon showing him killing alexandria ocasio cortes, telling "the washington post," quote, everybody needs to relax. meanwhile, the crime's punishable by political death in today's republican party, defending democracy and the safety of your congressional leagues to say nothing of the vice president. add to that, defending the well-being of your constituents including for the bipartisan infrastructure package. huntsville news reports quote, the gop leadership is pricing for rank and file lawmakers to strip committee assignments from the 13 republican lawmakers who voted for the $1 trillion bipartisan bill. several are ranking members. top republicans on committees and those could be at risk, too. congressman, i don't remember the specifics, but i remember kathy griffin got in trouble for some sort of cartoon that depicted violence against donald trump. how does a cartoon depicting violence against cortez and president biden any different? >> well, it's not. and this is worse in some ways. i'm disgusted by it, but i'm also kind of lost the ability to be surprised anymore by what we're seeing coming from this version of the republican party. it wasn't that long ago, really, when they were policing their own caucus. i remember when they stripped steve king of his committee assignments for his white supremacist views and comments he made. gosar has gone much farther than that, appearing with white supremacists, being at the heart of january 6th. posting a video, maybe that's supposed to be funny, of him killing one of his colleagues and attacking the president of the united states. they've gone so far and as you've said, they're trying to excommunicate now some of these members who voted with the bipartisan bill that mitch mcconnell voted for in the senate. that's popular. about roads and bridges and high speed internet. i don't know what to say anymore. >> i hear you on the politics. kathy griffin was a comedian by training. mr. gosar, i don't know if he thinks he's funny, but he didn't get voted into congress for being funny. there's no sort of comedy or shield to stand behind. would you like to see secret service and the fbi respond to this dissemination of extremely graphic videos? >> i think the committee in the house should take action. playing things deserving of sennture. and yes, i think when you make threats against the president of the united states, it should be looked into. we're in a period in which, i was on the house floor when those folks try to break in to they could kill the speaker of the house and the vice president. that's what happened that day. and had they been successful, they would have tried to kill me and many of my colleagues. so we have to pull this back from the precipice of political violence entering our bloodstream and becoming a new normal for us because this happens around the world where parties don't just have elections, but go to war with one another. that can't happen here. we don't want to even have any kind of an idea that's where we're going to be going. so whatever needs to be done to have consequences. i think the republican caucus should do it themselves, honestly. i don't think they should require us on the democratic side coming in to say this is no okay. >> have you met the republican? >> i have to say i'm not very impressed with the leadership i've seen in the last few years over there, but i have some friends there who i still believe in. who i know don't condone any of this. i'm looking into some of them to speak out as well. and to say that this is unacceptable in our country. in their party. because we both know we need a functioning republican party. we need some of these folks to be the voice for reason in their party and we need them to dismiss voices like mr. gosar. >> one of the ways i look at this republican party is if there are ten house republicans who vote to impeach trump, those are the ones with the cajones to do it. i wonder what you make of the other side of the coin? the purging of liz cheney for telling the truth about what they saw and said happened on january 6th. now setting out retribution plans and plots against the 13 republicans who voted for something we all know this country needs. i don't know where you live that your bridges aren't crumbling. i don't know anyone who wants their kids to inherent this current state of our country's infrastructure. what do you make of the flip side, but punishment for actually doing their jobs and governing? >> yeah. well, one of my good friends in congress is ebony gonzalez who i played against in the nfl, but he's been driven out of that party. he's very conservative, anthony is, but that's not what they're looking for. it's devotion to a single person or idea. that's you know, what they're looking for now and that's why we have to win the election. and that's why the bipartisan infrastructure deal is such an important thing to show the democracy still works. that yes, there are still some republicans that are willing to vote for it, but that we can deliver for you and that we'll keep delivering for you and we're not going to be telling you it's someone else's fault, what's happening. but that we're going to help you get to work easier. we have to win because we need a better version of this party. we need to make sure we have a functioning system here and part of this for us as democrats is that we have to get out of our own way, too. >> what does that look like? >> we have to come to agreement and pass important legislation and we have to be on message and talk about it and tell people why we're trying to help them. i was raised by a single mom in dallas who was a public schoolteacher. so much of what's in the act would have benefitted me. capping childcare costs, oh, my goodness. the cost of childcare, it's out of control. to something like paid family leave. there's so much in there that's going to impact families. it's all about getting people back to work, helping the committee. this president has created 5.8 million jobs in his first year. the most of any president in their first year ever. let's make sure the american people know the good things we're doing for them. right now, i don't think we can turn over power to the other side. >> i welcome you to come back. i think our viewers are really enthusiastic to understand everything that's in these bills at a substantive policy level and what they mean to people. you're welcome to come back anytime and talk about that. thank you so much for spending some time with us. the white house is sending top cabinet members out to highlight the benefits of this big, new infrastructure package. it may be an uphill climb in this politically fractured world. we'll talk about its urgency, next. world. we'll talk about its urgency, next ♪ christmas music ♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ if your dry eye symptoms keep coming back, what?! no! over the counter eye drops typically work by lubricating the eyes and may provide temporary relief. xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. it can provide lasting relief. xiidra is the only fda-approved non-steroid eye drop specifically for the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. one drop in each eye, twice a day. don't use if you are allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. after using xiidra wait 15 minutes before reinserting contacts. ♪♪♪ this holiday, ask your doctor about xiidra. umph! theo is saving big, holiday shopping at amazon. so now, he's free to become, thoughtful theo. and he's got a gift for everyone. so thoughtful. president biden will try to sell the infrastructure bill to the american people and teach people what's in it, frankly, come amid disappointing electoral results last week and concern for some in the party that delivers results may not be enough. says -- that makes the upcoming threat a critical test of whether president biden's core strategy resonated in a pluralized environment. president biden will get a helping hand from his cabinet in his quest to sell that bill. pete buttigieg highlighting just how consequential the new legislation is and how it can help solve past inequities. >> every community large and small, rural and urban, every community feels the benefits. when combined with the build back better act, the bipartisan infrastructure bill, they're going to create good union jobs, make investments in equity, the fight against climate change. i'm still surprised that some people were surprised when i pointed to the fact that if a highway was built for the purpose of dividing a white and a black neighborhood, that obviously reflects racism that went into those design choices. i don't think we have anything to lose by confronting that simple reality and i think we have everything to gain by acknowledging it and then dealing with it. >> joining our conversation, donna edwards and eugene's back with us. donna, what do you make of two parts of this. what the congressman said is the urgent imperative politically to make sure that people understand what's in the bill and how it affects people in their lives and two, how they're doing so far? >> well, you know, when i was listening to congressman allred, i thought oh, my goodness, he should actually teach a course on how to sell this bill. because he was very, very good at connecting the current growing economy, 531,000 jobs created, plus the infrastructure package that would benefit every community. and i think that the lesson that democrats have to learn is that you can't just sell it once. can't just go on the road once. this is over and over and over again in every single community. there are 47,000 bridges in this country that are in complete disrepair. that means that they're in every county, every community, every state and so there's no excuse not to show up at those bridges and have those projects moving and talk about the benefit of good paying jobs and jobs all throughout the economy that will be created with this legislation. i'm excited to hear democrats do that because i think that the real driver in virginia, even though education certainly played a role, was the economy. voters saying they didn't think the economy was working for them. and this is a perfect opportunity for democrats to bring that home and to literally bring the bacon back home to their communities. >> donna, i want to press you further on this. i think that's right. but i think when you ask about the economy, people hear different things. i think the data suggests that the economy is in a healthy, strong place. and you're right, you can always tell the politicians of either party that campaign to win the votes of everyone that lives in their district. he's obviously one of them. the message i think that democrats have to deliver isn't just to put the data in front of voters, but that their lives have stuck become getting more expensive. i think a part of it is other than the 13 republicans who are now at risks of being excommunicated from the republican party is gop was largely awol from this package so how do they do that 3-d messaging in an effective way? >> i think a really good question. for example, in my congressional district, three times last year, i had flat tires that were due to road conditions. that's thousands of dollars out of your pocket to pay for that those flat tires and so i do think this there is a way to take the elements of this bill, maybe it's clean water. maybe it is the lead in the water pipes in one community. and another community, that road project. in another community, that they are being overwhelmed because their communities are not resilient to deal with climate change. these are all aspects in so many different waysqt(w3ñixdqñrxd pe? is it fred, tonya, who are those folks. putting a face to it is something that activists and democratic strategists hope the white house does as they move forward and sell this. >> having worked in the office that handled regional media, give them time. the bill just passed. hope they listen to everything you say. thank you so much for being part of our coverage. six days and 22 witnesses, the prosecution rested the case against kyle rittenhouse, setting up the defense to call kyle rittenhouse himself to the stand. a look how the trial is playing out next. a look how the trial is playing out next playing out is next. do you take aspirin? plain aspirin 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at this juncture? >> this trial likely comes down to whether or not the wisconsin law regarding self defense will provide a strong defense to murder here. of course, the decision is up to the jury, so you can use self defense but you can't use more force than is necessary to reasonably defend yourself from an attack, and often if you're the aggressor, you lose the right to engage in self defense. it is difficult. it is complicated. it will come down to how the judge explains it to the jury in jury instructions and what they make of the evidence, including likely testimony from the defendant. >> is that decision to put rittenhouse on the stand wrapped up in what you're articulating, they must view him as the best narrator for the self defense defense? >> i think what it comes down to is that juries if they're going to credit self defense, they need to hear it from the mouth of the defendant in many cases. it is almost a foregone conclusion for this reason. in opening, the defense promised the jury they would hear from kyle rittenhouse, and to break that promise would be a way of breaking faith with the jury. i think it would have serious consequences on this jury's deliberations. you know, why did the defense decide not to put him on the stand. certainly they would explain they don't think the government has done a good enough job of proving its case, but you can't run that sort of risk with a jury. i think we'll see this highly unusual circumstance where the defendant will take the stand in this case. >> as you watch this, what in your view are the stakes in how this turns out? >> there are a lot of different stakes here. there are personal stakes for this defendant and for the families of the victims. they'll have long lasting consequences on both sides. but this is a case that doesn't just stand on its own, it is part of an entire series of cases. you know, george floyd isn't the starting point but he is perhaps the marker in the national conscience that 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think people realize that it is important to get it done. >> hi again, everyone. it is 5:00 in new york. top of mind for democrats this week, ready and eager to surge into midterm election year. the difference between substance, accomplishments, and messaging. we saw an example of real tangible progress. substance. in the last few days with a hard fought bipartisan passage of a $1 trillion infrastructure bill. one poised to transform the roads we drive on, bridges we cross, transit, clean energy, and broadband access. substance is the whole point of government in the first place, but alone, accomplishments, policy, substance does not win elections. that's where political messaging comes in. exhibit 1a, the economy. nearly every major indicator is exceptionally strong. nearly 6 million jobs created. unemployment, 6%. pandemic era low. average earnings up, checking accounts 50% fatter, and the stock market humming. new records being set nearly every day. those are the facts. yet 57% of voters, all voters say the economy is on the wrong track. the number is up 43% since june. why is that, what is the plan for democrats to undo it? how do they close that gap between the policies that are working and their legislative accomplishments and what people feel about them and know about them. congressman shawn patrick maloney is partly responsible for leading his caucus into what's expected to be a tough fight. you heard the president allude to that in the 2022 midterms. he tells "new york times" when asked whether a radical adjustment is needed ahead of midterms. quote, the results in virginia and elsewhere ought to be a wakeup call. we're not getting the job done on messaging. number one thing is grow the economy and pandemic, close behind that is telling people what you've done. i think it is a fair criticism to say we haven't done enough of that and i think the white house needs to do more. i don't think the president has been served well in this regard. it needs to happen right away. the good news for maloney, appears the white house agrees. president biden will visit port of baltimore tomorrow partly to promote his new infrastructure package. his schedule shows he will have a cabinet meeting friday centered around how to explain and sell the bill to the american people. we may soon see a major bipartisan bill signing ceremony. top members of cabinet embark on a barn storming. all that, seeming to fit his recommendation. the president needs to get himself out there around the country, do events in local media markets to punch through these key messages. i think the white house should do 25 presidential events in the next couple months and should do a thousand alongside. my message is free joe biden, campaign needs to start now before the next crisis takes over the news cycle. free joe biden. where we start with sean patrick maloney. last time i worked on a campaign, i was in the republican party then, it was someone on the right, might have been bill chris toll wrote free sarah palin. it was that we had a message problem. i know there's no sarah palin you're dealing with, and i take the point on message, but when you look at how visceral the enthusiasm, and turnout. i am sure you talked to folks, they felt good about democratic turnout. republicans for some reason even more animated. do you think selling infrastructure is enough? >> what i think is that there's no substitute for the president of the united states becoming the father of the country and telling us what we're up against, what the plan is to get through it, and to walk us through every step of the way. when he speaks about his own father, what that meant as a young kid hearing his dad say when times were tough how they were going to get through it, how the family was going to stay together, this is the moment when joe biden needs to be the father of our country, and it is pretty straightforward. you worked as communications professional at the white house, nicolle. he needs to come before the american people in a prime time address and tell us what he is doing. this is an extraordinary achievement. ask the networks for time. go out, tell the american people what's happened, what it means for them. follow it on with a massive paid media campaign by democratic national committee. now is the time to spend those dollars. tell the country why democrats are delivering, why we're fighting for them. then use the cabinet, use the congress, but first and foremost, use the bully pulpit. 25 presidential events, not one in baltimore. it is a good start. do 24 more. do them in the swing markets that matter. get the vice president out there, 25. she's a great communicator. deploy that as well. you have a cabinet that can do a half dozen events each. and members of the caucus want to support you, mr. president, we're ready to go. put us in this game. my message to the white house is like lincoln to mcclellan, if you're not using the army, i want to borrow it. >> look, i think they've heard you. they seem to be -- let me show you a local interview the president appears to have done from the white house. >> a lot of people are worried. think about this. look what 750,000 people died because of covid. 750,000 people. the psychological scars that it put on so many people. schools have not been open because of covid and they're just getting open again. we're in a situation where there's a lot of anxiety. gas prices are high, there's a lot of things that have given people a great deal of anxiety and concern. even though we created 6 million jobs since i came into office, we're in a situation where people don't feel it right now. they don't feel it. >> they're trying. it is a complicated message. i am sympathetic to this. it is feeling people's pain because they don't feel the good economic indicators, you can't argue how voters feel, but you have to try to change it on an emotional level, harder than putting facts in front of them. i want to push further and ask you to rely that message. >> yes. get joe biden out from behind the podium, put him in a fire house, around hard hats, with families getting cheaper child care and health insurance. he shines when he is with real people, when he is identifying with struggles of the working and middle class families out there like the ones he grew up in, like i grew up in. that's where he is magic. i want to see that joe biden. i don't think there's anything wrong with joe biden that can't be fixed if i was right with joe biden, and i want him to be the leader of the democratic team. i want all of us participating. but we are not getting the job done. and just focusing on why people are frustrated won't be enough. he was right in that summary, but he has to communicate we have enacted a plan to fix it. and people are going to feel it. and it is going to get the economy going again, we are going to end the pandemic. in a few months it will look and feel much different in america because democratic policies worked and republicans fought us every step of the way. without the white house using the bully pulpit, without the cabinet and vice president and members of congress and democratic national committee spending money right now, we are not going to win the message war, and it is not working. how's it going is my question, with all the love and respect to the world, how's it working? i think we've seen several months we have been on defense and i want to go on offense. >> what is the piece of that look like in terms of calling out the republicans? >> absolutely. first and foremost, we need to run on a record of results. but the contrast matters because they have fought us every step of the way. if they're going to try to be the party of education, they should have to explain why every republican voted against the most important supporter for schools in decades that we passed in the rescue plan. that's why we didn't layoff a bunch of teachers, we were able to keep kids safe. bring it i say if they want to talk about education. whether you talk about that or the pandemic where they have spread dangerous conspiracy theories, you want to talk about voting rights, respecting the right to vote in this country where they're trying to suppress the vote, spreading the big lie about the election, you better believe we should hold them accountable for reckless and dangerous conduct, but i don't lead with that and i don't want democrats to lead with that. it is not about trump. it is about what we're getting done. we need to tell people we're not just talking, we're succeeding. we put the ball in the endzone on the infrastructure package, about to do the rest on child care and help for families with kids and lowering prescription drug costs, helping with an elderly parent at home. these are issues that will help millions of american families. i want to lead with that. but i need the white house using the bully pulpit not for a day or two but for weeks at a time because something else is going to come along, change the news cycle. before that happens, we need to communicate with the american public. >> i want to ask about something that's in the water. i'll stipulate, winning campaigns are always lifted up as being more brilliant than they ever are, and losing kicked as being incompetent and hapless than they are. that said, there are a lot of people blaming wokeness. i'm not sure i could perfectly define that. you have a review from james carville. i want to read it. i played it earlier this week, said democrats lost last week because they're too woke. you said it sounds like he's buying into the false choice between fighting for racial justice and public safety. we can do both. or he is buying into false choice between guaranteeing equal rights for all citizens for success at the polls. what bothers me about his remarks, he is glib about the fight for racial equality for all citizens. i understand what james is trying to say. i think it is a falls equation. but he did win some elections back in the '90s. i don't know if you've seen the movie "trolls." that's a solid burn there. explain. >> we need to make it easy on ourselves. the solution is not to run away from things that are so urgent for so many americans. you can't look at the video of george floyd being murdered and not take seriously the need to have reform in policing, and we shouldn't just scatter because the republicans want to lie about it and call it something it is not and hope that it stirs up racial tension for political gain. we still have an obligation to fight for something. we're the party of john lewis, for goodness sake. we know there are people on the other side of the bridge marching for equality and sometimes they want to hurt you. we can't just take james' advice and stop fighting for things that matter. in the lbgtq community, they were thrown out of the military taking james carville's advice. the point is we can win elections, stand for something. we need to talk like human beings. i have a lot of respect for james carville. i think what he is saying at his best is stop talking like a bunch of lawyers and faculty egg heads, go talk to folks that take a shower after work and have to understand why what we're doing is going to put food on the table, help them pay bills, guarantee a decent retirement, and their kids have a better future. and we are doing those things. we have the best voice in the democratic party to connect with working and middle class families in joe biden. so i think the conversation about wokeness is a side show. the main event is that we are achieving results, we are delivering. i want the president to sell it. that's why i put the call to action out that lays out in specific terms how to sell this to the american people, to tell them what we're doing. >> it is going to be the biggest political story of the next 12 months. we'll stay on it. we'll call on you early and often. congressman, thank you for being generous with your time today, starting us out this hour. >> my pleasure. turning the conversation to sam stein, white house editor for politico, rick stang he will, former state department. i saw you nodding, your thoughts. >> well, i think the democrats should get sean maloney out there, he is a fantastic salesman for it. but he makes a lot of good points. i agree with him a thousand percent. speaking of james carville, president biden should take a page from president clinton. we all spend a lot of time around president clinton. he could be celebrating girl scouts day. he would begin whatever he said, here's what i did for you today, here's what i did for you yesterday, here's what i'll do for you tomorrow. that's what the president of the united states has to do. here's what democrats are doing for regular voters. people don't feel it yet. part of the reason they don't feel it, they haven't felt it yet, but they need to be told that. it hurts me to mention donald trump in any positive way. he is the most singular threat to our democracy. he told people what he was doing. most of it was a lie, but he was telling you how great the economy was, how great the defense department was, how he saved america. the democrats have to take a page out of that book. we have to tell people that all the time. >> i mean, sam, what i kept trying to get at was it is not the year 2000 or '96. the right is in an extremely efficient sort of messenger, message is received as messenger wishes through right wing media channels. there's no debating on fox news whether the republican indictment is accurate or not, it goes straight to voters. the democrats have a messier process, but makes it harder to do this piece. this is marketing, political messaging. what congressman is talking about is uninter rupted messaging. i don't think democrats have been on offense since the spring when the delta variant hit and passed the covid relief package, huge transformative package, nobody talked about it again. it is sort of in this like running on ice feeling watching democrats. i wonder if you think they're up to the task. >> i think they are up to the task, but the real world can complicate that. as you mentioned in the spring, there was this effort that they were going to embark onto sell the american rescue plan. then of course covid and the delta variant complicated that. it is difficult to sell recovery when people don't feel it or necessarily feel it. that's the case the administration is running into now which is that they've done, a bunch of deliverables they can sell and more so after passing the infrastructure bill, but people may think it is lies because of the cost of gasoline or pork is up. there's two problems. one is conveying to the people that you have passed these things, and the administration hasn't done a good job at that. we saw two people under 40% of the public credited the administration with passage of extended child tax cut which was $300 a month to parents in their checking account. they didn't realize president biden had done that for them. second thing, selling them on what the future and how positive it can be. one thing i thought congressman didn't mention which i would be curious to know, how do you go about doing the sales job in an age where we have closed off, and by that, voters you want to reach aren't necessarily watching local news or national news. they're getting news from conservative outlets and different groups. how do you penetrate those ecosystems deploying joe biden 24 times in a couple months. there needs to be a more comprehensive rethinking of media strategy on the democratic side of the aisle that deploys those people where the voters are. i have yet to see anyone on the democratic side really sort of fight that idea. i guess pete buttigieg tried to, but there hasn't been a thorough, comprehensive game plan to penetrate those bubbles. >> such a good point. when i worked in the white house, a president could go anywhere and local news would take it wall to wall from the moment air force one lands to every motorcade route, every local volunteer. and they weren't super partisan, particularly when they were not there campaigning. but rick, you looked at this information. you edited a magazine. how do you achieve what sam laid out? >> well, sam made a great point. and you know this too. part of the problem in government is that when people are making policy, which is their job, they don't think how to message that policy once that policy gets passed. that was my problem in government. i was in public diplomacy. that's what you think about in public diplomacy. i think sam's point about having this kind of really thought out messaging strategy for democrats to tell the voters here is what we did for you is a super, super smart thing. you know, the other thing that's in the air and sort of complementary that people don't feel it, you hear from moderates that biden has overdone his mandate, but he didn't have a mandate to be fdr. and sean maloney even addressed this in his piece. there may be some truth to that in purple, swing, red districts, but the point is now you have bringing home the bacon. i don't think if a voter thinks i didn't vote for fdr, but you know what, your roads will be better, you get a child tax cut, there's more money for schools. nobody doesn't like that. that will make people realize that you know what, the democrats can actually govern and that's good for me. >> sam, really quick, almost out of time. the democratic bet, white house and ron klain bet is that liberals win elections. is that the right bet? >> i don't know if that's actually the bet. i think privately what they think is historic trends show we will not hold power come 2022, and we should take advantage of time we have the trifecta. that means getting legislation done, getting as much as you can done given voting realities, going out, selling the hell out of it. in all likelihood, none of it is material, historic trends, national moves, you look at voter surveys out of virginia, they were doing surveys, voters, most of them said we like the democratic party, we like the republican messaging, how they're on the culture side. that could overwhelms whatever democrats produce. we need to take advantage of power we have, push forward as much as we can, campaign like hell on it. >> thank you so much for joining us. when we come back, it is described. mixing governing with political campaigning with flagrant and willful disregard for what governs that. the biggest offenders. and roe vs wade hangs in the balance. we get more from the dean of the supreme court reporters. and capitol riot waiting in belarus. he considers the january 6th insurrection a lawful political protest. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. es after a quick break. don't go anywhere. 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and white house. his failure to do anything about it. the report by federal investigators found at least 13 trump administration officials illegally misgoverning with the 2020 campaign. many of them days ahead of the november election. those action described by trump appointed special counsel henry kerner as willful disregard for the law. known as the hatch act. rnc speeches by secretary of state mike pompeo, and acting homeland security chief chad wolf, both who according to "the washington post" the report says ignored repeated warnings from career ethics officials and attorneys that they would be break the law with appearances at the republican convention. more from the post. the trump white house was well aware of the hatch act restrictions, the report says having received 15 letters from kerner's office laying out violations and two reports on a repeat violator, kellyanne conway. joining us, frank figluzzi. and donny deutsche. kellyanne conway is the least surprising thing in the report. >> you know, i said this on the show before. you grade on a curve. you start with trump plotting the insurrection to overthrow the u.s. government and get to the hatch act and go oh, okay, yeah. and this is a lawless president. we know that. also to be fair, the hatch act, there's been a little footsy with that in previous administrations, nothing is as egregious as here. the sad thing, as far as public opinion or anything, it is a big issue but none issue in terms of moving anyone's within. he has done more playing outside the lines in violations of the hatch act. >> i think there's a question before the country. watching merrick garland, it is depressing how the country will answer it. there are two double offenders on the list of political appointees that illegally campaigned while in office that were subpoenaed by the subcommittee investigating. i am going to put up the names of those that illegally campaigned working for the american taxpayer. mike pompeo, chad wolf, acting homeland security director, alyssa farah. director of strategic communications. robert o'brien, national security adviser. the energy secretary. kellyanne conway. jared kushner, no surprise. the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, caylee mcenand ee. ambassador to israel, steven miller, former deputy white house press secretary, and mark short, former chief of staff to the vice president of the united states of america. it is our second story of the second hour for all the reasons donny articulated. maybe there are norms to be reexamined if someone like donald trump could have this job again. >> i think many of us playing at home kept a list perhaps on the night stand of things to fix. things we never imagined or the founding fathers didn't really envision. after the previous administration, we realize we have some holes that have to be filled. one is the fact that there is no real enforcement arm at the office of special counsel when you are talking about the president and those in his immediate orbit, his appointee the. it says the president himself has to discipline once on notice of hatch act violation, he has to take care of business. what if you don't have a president that takes care of business. what if he finds loopholes, gaps, exploits them because he knows he is the one that has to get people in compliance and has no intention of doing it. let's add this to the fix list, with regard to preserving rule of law. i want to speak specifically to a small group of people. that's the group of people, acting homeland security secretary swore in as u.s. citizens during the republican national convention, after told you can't do this, as he was walking to the podium, chad, you need to reconsider, this is mixing government act with political campaigning. he blew it off. wanted to talk to newly sworn in citizens. i'm sorry you were used as political props by our government and our administration. that's not how it is supposed to work here. i'm sorry your citizenship was politicized. we don't usually do that. we're going to try to fix it. it is that kind of accountability that needs to happen if the office of special counsel is going to have any teeth moving forward. >> frank, i want to read that part of the report. i have it here. it found wolf's naturalization ceremony was orchestrated for the purpose of creating content for the convention, and wolff and pompeo's events stemmed from requests originally from the campaign or possibly the president himself. they reflect the trump administration for political ends, and investigators said pompeo violated state department rule on speaking about politics while abroad. you said something about teeth. there aren't any teeth anywhere to be found. there are no consequences for these people. how do we make sure it doesn't happen again? >> so our whole system is premised on the notion that people will generally follow the rules and go along. there will be a president that gives a damn about the rule of law and constitution. we need to fix all of this. for those that i am among these people getting frustrated with department of justice because they're not taking care of business fast enough, understand what the alternative is. the alternative is to look a lot like the trump administration that blew off due process, rule of law, the constitution. instead what's being done is methodical, it is being studied, analyzed. i predict this referral with bannon will go to the u.s. attorney, the grand jury. we don't want to look like those we are criticizing. we will get this right. the accountability factor has to be here, and i hope and i believe that the department of justice will do the right thing with regard to accountability as will states like georgia and new york with their own jurisdiction. >> our last conversation friday you brilliantly created, i put you on the spot, an ad. i talked to sean patrick maloney about the democratic message and he is so visceral in rallying around a message. seems like democrats haven't even started to figure out how to deal with this. and i want your thoughts on messages. the idea, if you give a bleep about your country, don't let him near it again. how do you make people care about that. >> great advertising can't sell something that people don't want. i'm going to sound a little jaded and i hate being like this because i am not that person, i am an optimistic person. i think people have been numbed. i think this kind of thing is very hard to put into a compelling, we're in a world people care about themselves, care about food on the table, care about jobs, about their education. i think particularly because trump has sullied the water, if you can't get people, we do research, can't get people to think that january 6 is what it was, was a potential end of democracy, and that lawlessness does not move them. i don't know. i think i am the smartest marketing guy in the room, i don't know how you make that a compelling message. i throw my hands up on this. >> this is -- we will spend an hour talking about this. i think this is something, there's nothing i care about more than destruction of these institutions in which i served. i held up my hand and swore to never break the hatch act. they broke it like every other day at the office. but i think you're probably right where the country is and certainly where donald trump's followers are. to be continued. thank you so much for spending time with us today. with a major potentially transformative group of decisions looming on everything from abortion to gun rights, the united states supreme court may be on the verge of doing things with extreme consequences. long time court reporter linda greenhouse details how we got here to this moment in her new book "justice on the brink." don't go anywhere. nk." don't go anywhere. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to 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(phone chimes) ♪ ♪ ♪ i jump up on the stage ♪ ♪ and do my money dance ♪ ♪ i throw some money up ♪ ♪ and watch the money land ♪ ♪ i do my, i do my i do my money dance ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi - you could save with low rates and no fees. earn a $500 bonus when you refi... and get your money right. ♪ i do my money dance ♪ [gaming sounds] [gaming sounds] [gaming sounds] just think, he'll be driving for real soon. every new chevy equinox comes standard with chevy safety assist, including automatic emergency braking. find new peace of mind. find new roads. chevrolet. if you smell gas, you're too close. leave the structure, call 911, keep people away, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. one of the most important things you can do is to make sure you call 811 before you dig. calling 811 to get your lines marked: it's free, it's easy, we come out and mark your lines, we provide you the information so you will dig safely. it is not hyperbole to say the current supreme court term may turn out to be one of the most consequential in the court's history. the court will issue decisions on abortion and gun rights that could fundamentally remake life in america at a moment when the justices themselves made abundantly clear in speeches and public appearances that they see and hear a lot of criticism directed at them at this moment. the court's approval ratings among the public are at record lows across the ideological spectrum, and charges of politicization threaten legitimacy of the course in the eyes of large swathes of the american public. her new book "justice on the brink" the death of route bader ginsberg, and 12 months that changed the supreme court, she showed us how her confirmation transformed the court, what we should expect to see in the current term. she's our guest. it is so brilliant and brilliantly timed. first, tell me what sort of animated and pushed you through to get this out now as they're about to enter a highly consequential term. >> yes. i started writing it shortly after amy barrett was confirmed and sitting on the court. the focus is a month by month chronicle of the amazing last term with three trump appointed justices. as you suggest, it kind of sets the stage for the major decisions that are coming down this term. it was totally their choice to take the abortion case. there was nothing that said they had to take it. in fact, it was the kind of case the court ordinarily wouldn't take. they've taken a major case on religion in the public school, sending of public money into religious schools, so they set us up for quite a term. >> so interesting. these hot button issues didn't arbitrarily land there, they grabbed them. i want to read something from the book. 2021 was the term the fourth wall disappeared. how could the fourth wall have siefd a president's declaration that he urgently needed to fill a vacancy so the court would be at full strength to protect his forthcoming fraudulent claim to be reelected. when the six conservatives were divided, it was not ideology or methodology, it was rather their level of concern or perhaps even awareness that the fourth wall's disappearance left the court exposed, vulnerable to being written off as another political branch of government, from the left justice briar did his best to warn what he saw to the threat of the court legitimacy. he avoided direct criticism of colleagues, he observed that if the public sees judges as politicians in robes, its confidence in the courts and in rule of law itself can only diminish, diminishing the court's power, including the power to act as a check on other branches. we don't know everything you know. i only see what's public facing. they seem so acutely aware of this dynamic. is that the case? >> well, yes, i think it is. and damage of the fourth wall, we go see a play, we know we're in a play, know the people on the stage are not the actual people they're pretending to be, and we kind of live by that. we're spectators. what half the term is, that kind of level of protection for the court as an institution was breached by the amazing norm breaking. last segment talked about norms, norm breaking, nomination of a justice before the justice who had died, hadn't been buried, weeks before the election, going on from there. it is hard for people to look at the supreme court as the kind of ivory tower institution that it, itself would like us to think it is. >> i want to read something you wrote in an op-ed. where we might be heading. do gun rights depend on abortion rights, that's up to the supreme court, perhaps inevitably it has come to this. one right established nearly a half century faces erasure while the other extracted 13 years ago from a con tortd reading of an 18th century text may be poised for an ahistoric expansion. limb emerged to knock the rights to abortion and gun possession off the apparent trajectories. do you believe that's where we're heading? >> yeah, so that was the two cases they were arguing back to back on last week and of course the abortion case the court heard didn't go directly to the right to abortion. that's going to be december 1st when the court hears the mississippi case accepted in the last term but i think it is clear from the court's behavior and from the arguments that gun rights are on the march, and abortion rights are close to disappearing. >> what do you think goes through the mind of chief justice roberts? >> that's a fascinating question. his name is on the door. it is the roberts court. he becomes a figure of history, the minute he took the oath in 2005 so he's got to care about the health of this institution. historically, chief justices care more than they might had they stayed as associate justices. justice rehnquist, john roberts' mentor, he clerked for rehnquist before he became chief justice. you know, he kind of changed his tune once he was in that center chair. so i have to think that roberts cares a great deal how the court is perceived. you know, he is not going to change his opinion about things. he has strong opinions about issues, but he wants to go more slowly than colleagues to his right would like the court to be going. >> it is the most opaque brand of government. for that, we are in debt to reporters like yourself, especially you. the book is called justice on the brink. pleasure to talk to you today. thank you for spending time with us. >> my pleasure. thanks for having me. >> thank you. when we come back, the capitol insurrection defendant now in belarus. that story after a quick break. s that story after a quick break i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! 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do you know 450 individuals were arrested after entering the congress, and they didn't go there to steal a laptop. they came with political demands. 450 people have been detained. >> you're talking about the capitol riots? >> they're looking at jail time between 15 and 25 years. they came to the congress with political demands. isn't that persecution for political opinions? some have been accused of plotting to take over government power. some are accused of robbery. they didn't go there to rob. >> because he knows. you may remember that exchange from our colleague keir simmons' exclusive interview with russian president vladimir putin, the interview in which putin suggests that rioters held in jail due to their actions on january 6th are political prisoners. that warmness toward the insurrectionists has been felt. it may have spoken to a few of them more powerfully than others, who are doing whatever they can to evade law enforcement. evan neumann is wanted on charges of violent entry and disorderly conduct. he's now seeking asylum in belarus, a country that has close ties to vladimir putin and russia. let's bring in nbc washington's investigative reporter scott macfarlane. >> this sticks out from the get-go. he's accused of using one of those police barricades as a battering ram. he traveled through two or three countries to get to belarus. i've gone back and forth with the embassy in belarus. belarusian state media says neumann is there and seeking asylum. the u.s. will try to get evan neumann back, but this is just another complication in a january 6th prosecution which is already quite complicated, nicolle. >> i guess if you have to flee to belarus, you're clearly guilty of something. i want to ask you what's coming up. i saw this tweet from you, big, big hearing at 11:00 a.m. wednesday, a big sentencing for scott fair let me who pleaded guilty to assaults police. does the judge go higher or lower than the 44 months recommended by prosecutors. >> tomorrow scott fairlamb will walk in. we're now moving to the higher level cases. we've seen this parade of plea agreements and sentencing and low level cases. scott fairlamb pleaded to assaulting, laying hands on police. prosecutors are going to ask for 44 months, about 3 1/2 years in prison. does the judge go higher? does the judge go lower? does that set the table for this wave of higher level cases for leniency or not leniency. scott fairlamb said he agreed to cooperate with the january 6th committee and was hoping that would provide more leniency. we find all this out tomorrow morning. >> i want to ask you for sort of the wider perspective on where the doj investigation and prosecution stands. >> let's start with this. we're not going to see trials in this calendar year. we won't see trials in january 6th cases, at least most of them, until after the one-year anniversary. as of my latest reporting, 44 of the nearly 650 defendants are in the washington, d.c. jail pretrial awaiting trial. >> nbc's scott mcfar land, thank you for joining us. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. releasing aspirin after it leaves your stomach... where it is absorbed to give you the benefits of life saving aspirin... to help prevent another heart attack or stroke. heart protection with your stomach in mind. try new liquid-filled vazalore. aspirin made amazing! try new liquid-filled vazalore. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... being first on the scene when every second counts... or teaching biology without a lab. we are the leader in 5g and a partner who delivers exceptional customer support and 5g included in every plan. so, you get it all, without trade-offs. unconventional thinking, it's better for business. bye mom. my helpers abound, i'll need you today. our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when everyone is smiling and having their fun i can turn my sleigh north because my job here is done. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. another emotional and joyful step on the path towards something resembling normal. families and friends who have been forced to stay apart due to international travel restrictions during the coronavirus pandemic are now celebrating being together again. scenes like these are happening in airports all across this country now that the biden administration has eased restrictions for fully vaccinated foreign visitors from dozens of countries. it's a very, very, very happy sight, especially as we head into the holiday season. we'll be right back. otezla is not a cream. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. no, he's not in his room. ♪♪ ♪♪ dad, why didn't you answer your phone? 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"the beat with ari melber" starts right now. >> welcome to "the beat" everyone. we have a big show tonight including news coming up on biden's historic and bipartisan win on that spending and infrastructure plan. we have more on that coming up. we begin with this nation on the edge of

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