9%. it is so bad that six former treasury secretaries wrote a letter imploring congress to extend the limit saying allowing an unprecedented default could cause serious economic harm. confronted with the reality republicans say of course the u.s. can't default on the loans. they refuse to help democrats in any way. just two years ago mitch mcconnell made it clear the consequences of default would be dire but now he's saying republicans actually have no role to play in seeing the country stay afloat. >> so you are expecting to raise the debt ceiling one again? >> of course. we'll never have america default. america can't default. that would be a disaster. the facts are indisputable. this is a totally democratic government. they have an obligation to raise the debt ceiling and they will do it. don't play russian roulette with our economy. step up and raise the debt ceiling. >> it's clear it's a straight up dereliction of duty. the thing is mitch mcconnell doesn't care what happens to americans. he sees an opportunity for democrats to go at out alone so that he can run ads against them and get that senate majority leader gavel back. that is really all he cares about. we already saw the beginning of it today with republicans says that this was a consequence of a liberal spending spree. that's a flatout lie. part of the reason congress needs to raise the debt ceiling is to pay for the previous bipartisan covid relief bill passed when donald trump was president. not to mention the fact that democrats helped republicans to raise the debt ceiling under trump. in fact, republicans dear leader increased the debt by 7.8 trillion with a t dollars including by jamming through a $1.5 trillion with a t tax cut for the rich. right on queue, america's most embarrassing retiree emerged from whatever golf course to egg on republicans to force democrats to concede the horror they are trying to inflict upon the future of the u.s. i mean, i'm pretty sure americans are still recovering from the horror of the trump presidency and a hypocritical statement, trump suggested getting rid of the debt ceiling entirely. they argue democrats go at it alone may be impossible. the house budget chair is saying there is not enough time to either write a stand alone bill or add a debt ceiling increase to reconciliation before october 1st which is when the government will shut down if republicans don't pass a combined resolution/debt ceiling bill. the treasury bill -- i mean, the treasury will reach the borrowing limit in october. this comes as democrats are confronting divisions in their party. president biden spend his entire afternoon in meetings to come up with an agreement on the major spending bill. progressives are clear they will not vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill until the spending bill passes the senate. moderates are balking at the price tag and provisions in the bill including drug price reforms and taxing on the rich and climate action. we're waiting to hear what exactly came out of the discussions today. joining me now is capitol hill correspondent leeann caldwell, jason johnson professor of politics and morgan state university and jennifer ruben, washington post opinion columnist and author of the book, "resistance how women saved democracy." leeann, i want to go to you first. what is the status of the democrat side of trying to decide what they can get done by october 1st? >> reporter: joy, this is -- i've been covering the hill for a long time and this is one of the most complicated trapeze acts that speaker pelosi and leader schumer are trying to nav gate. they have president biden of their side, of course, so by october 1st, they're trying to pass a bipartisan traditional infrastructure bill and $3.5 trillion human infrastructure bill, keep the government open and lift the debt limit or at least suspend the debt limit. all of these things are colliding into each other and how they get out of it, it's not completely clear. as you mentioned, a lot of lawmakers are at the white house today talking to president biden who is finally engaged in these discussions and the little readout we've received so far from pelosi and schumer and moderates, that hasn't been a lot of consensus agreed to including what the top line number will be of this reconciliation bill, if it's going to be 3.5 trillion or less and he's meeting with the progressives now and that will be a critical meeting because they're taking a very stark stand in their opposition to this bipartisan bill until they get a vote on this human infrastructure bill and i know speaker pelosi is good at her job but this is a difficult task yet. >> it a trapeze act but if there is one perp good at the trapeze, it's speaker pelosi. let me go to you first, jason. it's a trapeze act democrats have to pull off. let be clear. we're only talking about one party doing this because there is only one governing party left. republicans made it clear not just to their base to the lunatic fringe that worships donald trump but by the way, also to their own donors, to wall street, to the business community, to the chamber of commerce, whoever is wide awake understands that republicans are completely irresponsible. the fact they would play games with not raising the debt limit means they're offer the table as responsible grownups period. this isn't about democrats. the democrats have to fig dpur -- figure out the $3.5 million medicare bill. free comuity college. pathway for undocumented immigrants, all of that stuff while at the same time as adam points out, you've got moderates, some of whom get that good, good drug company money who are like nah, we don't want to do that. they're trying to derail this big bill that could include everything in theory including maybe everything could go in that bill but they're like nah, we don't like it while it progressives who are saying we're willing to play ball with the president. how do you see this playing out? >> so this is -- we can't state enough how important this is. it's nice to hear that president biden is actually sitting down and having meetings with people but this all goes back to the fact that one, yes, as you said, there is really only one governing collision. you can get the debt ceiling passed if republicans weren't just going to be lock stepped with mitch mcconnell. the other problem on the democratic said is you have three factions. you have your moderate republicans. you have your progressive republicans and moderate democrats and progressive democrats in the house and have your conservative democrats like joe mansion. he gets along better with his friends who are seemingly republicans when it comes to issues like the $3.5 trillion we need for human infrastructure but if he can't come to an agreement or be used to convips -- convince the others, in a of this gets done. we also saw the end of police reform happen today. >> yes. >> there are a lot of very important legislative things that have to be accomplished and the next two weeks or this could basically, you can't doom a presidency but legislatively, if they don't get it done now, they won't get it ton next year or during a midterm election. >> the difference between now and all the times i've observed politics is we're now no longer talking about two parties negotiating the country. we're having a conversation of a government with a lunatic cult near it that looks like it not government and dressed up like it's not government and gets a salary from the taxpayers like it part of the government but it ain't the government. you have house leadership whipping against, they're whipping against not the $3.5 trillion. let's put that aside. they're whipping against the regular old bipartisan senate infrastructure bill. they're whipping against bridges and roads for their own districts, jennifer. >> well, you are right. this is nealism on steroids. these people don't give a fig about the country. they think that this is all about owning the libs, embarrassing the libs and crashing the country, of course. you said there is something interesting. that party can't govern when you have the filibuster. >> correct. >> so republicans are going to declare themselves totally responsible, not going to even vote on the debt ceiling, not going to do the basic functions, why give then the filibuster? the filler buster is supported to promote debate and compromise. they're making the best argument they're totally irresponsible and it's insanity to give them a veto power of a party that's legitimately trying to govern when they don't have a plan for governance and their idea is crash the economy, crash the democracy and say no to everything. i think if democrats can finally get mr. mansion to acknowledge that he is not dealing with the 1950s version of the republican party or even the 1990lican par dealing with people on a mission to destroy america, maybe that would finally make an impact on him when they're talking about getting rid of the filibuster. they are simply trying to, as you say, own the libs and they take the country down the tube, oh, well, that's the cost of doing business. >> i'll make you a finer point of it, jason. i'll correct myself. it isn't one party governing. it is one part of the government that means the house of representatives, which is passing bills like a normal branch of government, which is pasting reforms that are supported by the majority of americans whether climate, police reform. they've already passed this. voting reform. it's just one piece of the government that's functioning. the senate ain't functioning because within that body, you have democrats that seem more married to allowing republicans to wreck the car than pulling the damn car over. i've never seen anything like this. there is a faction in the democratic party, the mansion, krysten sinema that seems more interested in standing back and forcing the rest of their party to allow republicans to reck the economy, to let them ruin the country, to let them end democracy. i don't get it. >> joy, no matter how much push back trent lot gave to george bush, we have never seen the kind of internal obstruction to a president of the same party as we've seen between joe mansion and krysten sinema and what is happening with joe biden now. what we are seeing between the house and senate, which are both controlled by democrats because we keep pointing out and the presidency is like the worst high school group project everywhere you have one side that did all the assignment and they're ready to go and the other side is i don't like the front. that's the problem. whether or not joe biden can come in and whip everyone into accomplishing their jobs, speaks to a larger issue here, which is you have one party that understands power, which is the republicans. they recognize they have the power to obstruct and do nothing and the democrats can't figure out what power is or how to use it. >> they don't seem to want to, jennifer. they don't seem to want to use power and again, it's not the house. pelosi's team is ready to work. they're working. they're passing bill after bill after bill but the united states senate is now been captured by people like mansion and cinema who i can't figure out their strategy other than let the republicans reck the country and i don't understand why that that is what they seem to prefer. >> they have convinced themselves the way they survive in their states is allowing republicans to wreck the country. this makes no sense. if republicans were negotiating for less than $3.5 trillion or negotiating maybe we modify the prescription drug provision. that would be one thing. that should be showing their constituents pack home they will be responsible and not going to rubber stamp the liberal progressive leaders. that's not what is going on. what they're doing is conspireing with republicans so that they would have nothing that the things that even they have run on that they want to get done would not get done. so -- >> yeah. >> maybe this is some super duper slight of hand to mansion the final say on what's in the bill but i don't see it right now. i see him being a spoiler and a presidency, a democracy unfortunately rests in the pal lance. >> and when republicans if this helps them take back over, mansion and cinema need to understand all that mitch mcconnell wants are more far right wing judges, more hand made tale judges and that's all he's going to do and all he wanted in that gavel. thank you very much and y'all check out "resistance how women save democracy from donald trump." what kind of person sues his own niece for telling the truth? is it true he cheated on his taxes. plus, the latest from the death colt as ron desantis picks an anti mask, anti vaccine doctor. the behind the scenes sabotage that brought it down and a few hints on the absolute worst, pizza, covid and crocodiles. 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we invited mahault to see for herself that new dove breakage remedy gives damaged hair the strength it needs. even with repeated combing hair treated with dove shows 97% less breakage. strong hair with new dove breakage remedy. in business, setbacks change everything. show so get comcastkage. business internet and add securityedge. it helps keep your network safe by scanning for threats every 10 minutes. and unlike some cybersecurity options, this helps protect every connected device. yours, your employees' and even your customers'. so you can stay ahead. get started with a great offer and ask how you can add comcast business securityedge. plus for a limited time, ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. call today. nbc news confirms donald trump sued the new york times as well as his own niece mary trump that shattered him as a self made billionaire. trump. >> alan: accusing them of gaining in a plot for highly sensitive records they exploited for their own benefit and he alleges by leaking his own tax records mary trump broke a two decades old confidentiality agreement and wanting no less than $100 million. that so-called insiddous plot trump alleges is called journalism. the story exposed trump as a tax cheat that inherited wealth through fraud which he called fake news. if the reporting wasn't true, he would have sued for defamation which he notably did not do. responding to a suit in app interview with the "daily beast" mary trump called her uncle an f-ing loser saying he's going to throw anything against the wall he can. it's desperation. legal experts say trump should be careful what he's wishing for. he's staking the claim on a non-disclosure agreement that may not hold up under scrutiny sure to entail multiple depositions under oath, which he might want to avoid. joining me now, tristan snail former new york assistant attorney general and david k. johnson who has written extensively on trump and co-founder of dc report.org. david, mary trump's lawyer today said the following. this is the latest on a long line of frivolous lawsuits by trump on issues of public concern and doomed to failure for freedom of speech and on the press. i feel like this is a giant tale by trump that he's really angry he was exposed for the brokeness that really engulfed him. your thoughts? >> well, this is another gambit by donald to stay in front of his dwindling supporters. they are starting to dwindle. he needs to raise money. he speaks on america's beggar in chief. there is no case here against "the times." my law school students are going to examine this case i assure you in the spring semester but he exposed himself to two big problems. one is discovery and being questioned under oath but the second one is the courts have held basically that mary trump can't be stopped by the non-disclosure agreement. she may suffer civil penalties if donald trump wants to sue her but we could end up with a court decision that says all your mbas are worthless. >> that would be interesting. tristan, let me let you listen to donald trump. here is what is weird. he's saying he was injured to the tune of $100 million because his tax returns got out. but here is what he previously said about his tax returns. >> are you going to release your tax returns? >> at the appropriate time i will release them. i will absolutely give my returns but i'm being audited. when the audit is complete i'll do it. i would love to give the tax returns. i would love to give them but i'm not doing to do it while under audit. it's simple. >> i'm not a lawyer or former assistant attorney general but can u sue someone for doing something you said you were going to do yourself? >> well, look, it makes him look foolish. you can sue them but it doesn't mean you're going to win. i think the real issue here is going to be that you can shot a non-disclosure provision out there but if that provision was obtained by fraud, then it's no good. you can void it. that i think will be what a lot of this hinges on is this reopens this huge pandora's box of what happened 20 years ago with the estate of fred trump and what was said to who and then that opens up all sorts of issues worth discovery in depositions like you were saying. >> david, the story on trump, we've talked about this a lot on my previous show and when i've had you on before is that the whole myth of him as being this self made billionaire was the truth, it's not clear he was a billionaire or made it to the billion status but isn't the risk here that the more he talks and the more discovery that happens and the more he sues, the more that story is unravelled and it just turns out he inherited $300 million in loss. that's the story and then he got a tv show. >> that's how you and i and rational people will see this but people that bought into donald trump, what a better tactic than go to the evil. what a horrible anti american institution with verifiable facts and he will use this to raise money which he desperately needs to do. i hope his lawyers have big fees up front. these are not his regular lawyers. i don't know if donald has regular lawyers anymore because donald is notorious for not paying lawyers, ask rudy. >> they need to understand. when they do this, i hope they're doing it for publicity and fame because they're not going to get paid. they need to understand that. "the daily beast" has a story for you, tristan. they discovered evidence in the basement of a co-conspirator al -- alan weisselberg revealed. he said we have a strong reason to believe there will be other indictments. does it look like there might be more indictments stemming from this weisselberg case? >> for sure. again, that was just the tip of a much larger iceberg. weisselberg is going to get indicted more. it's not just indictments against other people but more -- it's what is called the superseding indictment. you do another indictment on top of the old one and charge him. weisselberg will get charged with more stuff and so is the trump organization and there will be other additional defendants. that's just a matter of time. >> and, you know, david, i've been of the unpopular opinion, i do not believe donald trump would run for president again unless he'll be guaranteed he'd win, if the republicans fix all of the mechanisms from local to the federal system to make it he cannot lose because he doesn't want to be a loser again, right? but my question is let's say for people that think he's going to run, do you think based on having covered him a long time, would he run for president again with all of this hanging on him, the indictments of his businesses, potential legal trouble out of georgia for his own interference in the election with all the legal issues he has, is he really focused on his money problems? >> well, i will not be the least bit surprise if donald runs again and he may get the republicans to nominate him again because they blew the opportunity on january 6th to separate themselves from him but between now and the 2024 election he'll be indicted probably more than once. new york state most certainly will bring a racketeering charge, article 460 case against him under new york state law and he'll have lots of other problems but in donald's mind, he's done nothing wrong. he once was asked since you say you're such a devote christian that reads the bible more than anyone else, when did you last ask god for forgiveness? he said ask god for forgiveness? i would did anything that would require asking god for forgiveness. he lives in this world of invented reality. he's mentally ill and delusional and we're seeing it play out. >> he thinks 2 core rint yins, thank you both very much. still ahead, florida's surgeon general is openly hostile to the vaccine and to mask mandates, which makes him the obvious choice in a state led by governor ron desantis. 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with dupixent i can du more... yardwork... teamwork... long walks.... that's how you du more, with dupixent, which helps prevent asthma attacks. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on-treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as two weeks. and can reduce, or even eliminate, oral steroids. and here's something important. dupixent can cause serious allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. get help right away if you have rash, shortness of breath, chest pain, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection, and don't change or stop your asthma treatments, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. are you ready to du more with less asthma? just ask your asthma specialist about dupixent. florida governor ron desantis made it clear how uninvested he is a top health official whose ideas are right out of the desantis playbook titled how to not stop covid. desantis named dr. joseph ladipo as the new florida surgeon general. the doctor opposes mask and vaccine mandates says there is too much emphasis on vaccination. quote, it's been treated almost like a religion and that's just senseless he said. the sunshine state's top doctor issued a rule ending the state's required school quarantine after covid exposure saying it's up to parents to decide. in a series of op eds, the doctor argued against vaccine mandates and questioned the vaccine in general and called it an over reaction. it's no surprise ron found a doctor who will tell him what he wants to hear since this particular doctor has been affiliated with a group of desantis bffs that the most infamous florida retiree was also infakuated with. the bogus miracle cure hydroxychloroquine. the video was scrubbed from social media for misinformation and we're only showing part of it because florida's surgeon general was a speaker. >> the perspective most people have been hearing is hydroxychloroquine doesn't work, right? i believe that perspective, too until i started talking to doctors who would look more closely than some of the physicians behind me here, who had looked more closely at the data and at the studies. >> if you forgot why that little presser was sofa mouse or really infamous, aside from the misinformation, one of the doctors behind him, dr. stella emanuel made claims alien dna is being used and some gynecology issues were from demons. dr. blackstock, you know this doctor. i don't know if he's a clinician that treats patients. he's a researcher at ucla specializing in heart disease, not infectious diseases. your thoughts on him and his qualifications and the things he says and believes. >> joy, when i saw the article listing him as the new surgeon general for florida, i was absolutely shocked and after i was shocked, i was incredibly upset. i mean, i've known him since medical school. he is, as you can see in the video, he's a nice guy. he's actually quite smart, and he has the educational pedigree, however, he's delivering misinformation the same way other folks are but the danger is now he's in a government position and he's in a position to actually be recommending policies and to help enforce policies and we knew that governor desantis would choose someone like him and he's the perfect person for governor desantis because he's harvard educated. people can say look at his ped -- pedigree and he's a back man. >> he's giving me harvard shame. here is the thing -- go on. >> no, no, go ahead. >> what i was doing to say, you mentioned him being a black man. that actually is what frightens me all the more. florida already has some discrepancy problems with african-americans getting vaccinated and also dying from covid. you know, you already have in the reelect for the florida, sorry, one of the florida special elections that's coming up right now, that's coming up is going to actually have vaccinations at it because they're trying to encourage african-americans to get vaccinated because black people are dying disproportionately from covid in florida so to me having a black man, a black doctor be the face of anti vax and anti mask is dangerous. >> especially in rural florida we have huge discrepancies in terms of who is receiving vaccines and we know not enough black floridians are getting vaccinated so we have a black physician as surgeon again real giving out misinformation, discouraging vaccinations and so -- which is even more dangerous and incredibly more harmful to our community and the fact is that he believes in this idea that we should just abandon all mitigation measures and let the virus spread and when that happens, who is the most affected? the most vulnerable are people that look like you and me. >> absolutely. we just put up the numbers there. only 32, 33% of black floridians are vaccinated and 49% of white residents over 12 are vaccinated. black residents are hurting more. i want to ask you about this. the american front line doctors, this say group, this is what "time magazine" has wrote about they have been using ivermectin since it's founding last year by a los angeles physician who was arrested during the january 6th attack on the capitol. this woman dr. simone gold, america's front line doctors number toured medical conspiracies in right wing circles. i worry about this from a political point of view and i wonder what you think, as well. >> there is certainly reason for worry but one thing i want to make sure that everybody understands, governor ron desantis is vaccinated, right? everyone on his staff is vaccinated. i'd like to know if the new surgeon again real of florida is vaccinated. a, the con is still very much on in florida but more importantly, this goes beyond the trolling that they're doing here and maybe even more than the maga death cult stuff we can lack with the demon seed and i'ver -- ivermectin. one of the largest donors are is pushing an alternative for the vaccine. another thing is happening now and you have to take into consideration the calendar. this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, right? you mentioned some of them over indexed with african-americans in florida and that's sad but remember also, this is sort of an announcement like a maga back signal. whether he'll be on the ballot in a year from now or three years from now, hey, florida is where you want to come. florida is a place you want to recolin ate. don't forget the calendar, as well. with the announcement children's vaccines will be available in october, i think desantis is betting the delta variant is behind him. he can kind of loosen the reigns to play politics and that's what you see with this scenical choice of this very scenical surgeon general who i again, i think he's probably as vaccinated as ron desantis is and still putting out this junk science as fact. >> stay with you for a moment. you've mentioned and we've been looking a lot into this story, as well. does it feel like ron desantis, the fact that he will say parents can make the decision to send their children to school even if they've been exposed to covid, meaning they can get a lot of other children sick. he does seem to be pushing and hiring this guy feels like he's pushing maximum infection and then pushing people to get this treatment that happens to be what his largest donor makes money from. that is very suspicious to me and i don't know if it is to you. >> i mean, always with this maga criminal, you got to follow the money and the money trail i think is crystal clear. joy, there is another element. people say why on earth would ron desantis be engaing in desperately bad politics? he's taking a hit in the polls even in florida. i think he's playing for time. he hasn't really been held accountable for the surge. florida now is the number one state in the united states with deaths from covid, more floridians have died from covid than all americans did during the vietnam war. i mean, think about that for a second and yet, desantis hasn't really been held accountable in the same way that trump really hasn't been held accountable to the republican party for the events of january 6th. thereinfunty playing base politics because right now, they're not being held to account. let's be honest. >> people are dying as a result. it's a hell of a game to play with people's lives. it's terrifying. tonight's absolute worst is ahead as a foreign leader brings his covid loving ways to the big apple but first, it's looking like bipartisan toss on a police reform bill have completely collapsed with no plan c waiting in the wings. more after this. stay with us. the wings more after this. stay with us since suzie's got goals, she'll want a plan to reach them. so she'll get some help from fidelity, and she'll feel so good about her plan, she can focus on living it. that's the planning effect, from fidelity. in 2016, i was working at the amazon warehouse when my brother passed away. and a couple of years later, my mother passed away. after taking care of them, i knew that i really wanted to become a nurse. amazon helped me with training and tuition. today, i'm a medical assistant and i'm studying to become a registered nurse. in filipino: you'll always be in my heart. is struggling to manage your type 2 diabetes knocking you out of your zone? 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ask your health care provider today about once-weekly ozempic®. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! you may pay as little as $25 for a 3-month prescription. can you be free of hair breakage worries? we invited mahault to see for herself that new dove breakage remedy gives damaged hair the strength it needs. even with repeated combing hair treated with dove shows 97% less breakage. strong hair with new dove breakage remedy. it took convicted murderer derek chauvin 9 minutes and 26 seconds to press his knee into george floyd's neck and it sparked a racial reckoning but that wasn't enough to motivate senate republicans. today cory booker called his republican counter parts south carolina senator tim scott and said they were done negotiating of the police form rebill. they refused to accept the final officer. here is senator booker earlier today. >> it was clear that we were not making the progress that we needed to make to give america when i think the largest civil rights protests we've had in our country's history demands for substantive meaningful reform. when i couldn't get to a point where i can help families, tell them we were going to address the specific issues that put your family member in harm's way, it's just -- this is not -- this pathway now seems to be closed. >> democrats have been negotiating with senator scott in good faith for months. the sticking point was qualified immunity that shields police officers from civility for misconduct. the most recent version of the bill was slimmed down version that did not include qualified immunity reform. the excessive use of force warr. they urged democrats to bring the policing act to the floor for a vote so americans can see who is looking out for their com community's best interests. it been more than a year since it changed dynamic about policing in america. today that conversation came to a sad and uneventful end for now. for more, i'm joined by reverend al sharpton, host of "politics nation." rev, senator tim scott is blaming democrats for this and walking away and throwing around language about democrats wanting to defund the police, which is not part of this bill at all but i wonder what you make of it as somebody who was at the table during a lot of this process. there are all of these different police agencies that need to be negotiated with. you have the national police up ons and the national sheriff's associations and police organizations and instead of all up fie unifying around the negotiations and deciding what they want to do, they have taken different tasks on what they want. it feels like tim scott was sort of negotiating with lindsey graham over whether they could get the sheriff to go along with one thing while cory booker was negotiating with the chiefs of police on another thing. it seems like this might have been doomed from the start. >> many of us felt that it was doomed but we gave them the time to deal with this and we see the results of that particular path, which is why we called on them to call the vote. we want them to have on the record who is supporting real substantive police reform. let's not forget most americans polled after seeing the video of chauvin's knee on george's neck for 9 minutes and 26 seconds said something needs to be done. the courts did what they supposed to do. they convicted chauvin of murder two, murder three. the senate is saying let it go the way it is, the senate republicans. we need to have a role call on what the democrats say. it is unbelievable to us when you saw blacks and whites, people of all backgrounds watching all over the world, we ended the summer last year 200,000 people marched with martin luther king, iii in washington on this bill and on police reform and they are going to turn around and just police unions and the national sergeants and have them veto qualified immunity. in other words, we are going to protect you. but who is going to protech the people? that's unacceptable. we will keep driving this and force this to a vote. we want to know who is on the side of protecting the american people. we're not against all police. apparently, they are against all levels of accountable. >> i feel like tim scott was in the joe manchin seat on this. he was making it sound like he could deliver. what had to be delivered -- this is not under the reconciliation rules because of joe manchin, he would have had to deliver ten republicans. he was making it sound like he could. if he couldn't get lindsey graham to back him up and felt like he was undercut, if he couldn't get lindsey graham to go along, i wonder if he was the right guy to negotiate with. do you think we need to have that reconciliation conversation about police reform that we are having about voting rights? >> i think we must have that conversation about reconciliation. reconciliation and carveouts depend on how it deals with budgets. policemen deal with budgets. we pay billions of dollars a year for law enforcement. we have no accountability. we cannot redress any of what they are doing. that affects the budgets. it's not about de-funding the police. it's about funding police abuse and saying they're not going to be accountable. no one i believe can say with a straight face that what they saw happen with chauvin was right. it happened with eric garner in new york. a chokehold. one was a knee. the other was a man's armpit. the results were the same. countless other acts. it's time to know who is in the senate and be able to hold them accountable at the polls, which is why the voting rights movement we are engaged in is so important. clearly, today, we lost a round. the fight is far from over. >> do you know what the family's state of mind is. are they ready to start another round? >> i believe that from my talking to family members, they are absolutely committed to it. there must be qualified immunity. unless policemen know that they are at risk, just as citizens who are at risk, they lost their brother, their uncle, their father, and you tell me a policeman has no risk to do whatever they want, which has been convicted in a state of law? >> indeed. reverend al sharpton, appreciate you. thank you so much. appreciate you being here. tonight's absolute worst is net. a quick update on the haitian refugees seeking asylum. the white house confirmed the agents seen herding migrants have been placed ond on administrative leave while it's being investigated. many are being sent back to haiti. thousands are being allowed to seek asylum in the u.s. much more on this important story tomorrow night. do not miss it. we'll be right back. 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