coronavirus as the cdc warns of a possible fourth wave. >> you know, it's interesting, mika, he had to say in there that it's not political. it's not political. >> it's not political. it's science. >> here we are with over half a million people dead and you know, we heard from dr. birx this weekend, talking about how after the first 100,000, if they had done a better job, if donald trump had not been so resistant, they would have been able to save so many lives. and here we are, willie, i'm now -- i'm now hearing lunatics -- and i'll call them lunatics -- >> yeah. >> -- that are now of course still pushing back on the masks. but now we're saying if we somehow identifies as having a vaccine, like it's part of satan or the mark of the devil -- or nazi germany. the idicy is just beyond us. they're acting recklessly and irresponsibly. they're being stupid and falling conspiracy theories. they're falling a failed game show host and or reality tv show host and they don't understand, i guess, maybe they're such morons they don't understand this, if i want to go to a baseball game with my son, who has a history of upper respiratory issues, i don't want a bunch of idiots sitting anywhere near us in fenway or a little league baseball park that haven't taken the vaccine. if they don't want to take the vaccine and they want to die, that's their right as americans. they don't have to take the vaccine and they can die or they can get really sick. they can live in ignorance and stupidity. they have that right, even though they're hurting other people, but don't tell me we can't do something so smart people, who actually follow science, who actually want to take care of their children, who actually want to save their neighbors' lives, who actually want to make sure everyone around them is safe, they can't tell us what to do, and our government, our sports teams, our concert promoters damned well better put together something where you can show your vaccine receipt or you can have something on a ticket stub that shows it. this anti-science idiocy. you know, let them do that under a rock or in their caves. but the time to try to reason with these people has long passed. >> you're right. good morning, first of all, guys, good to see you. it's been a couple of days. >> hey! very good to see you. >> a lot of this thinking, this anti-government strain of thinking has seeped into this conversation about vaccines and masks. and we heard it from the cdc director, rochelle walensky yesterday, who basically dropped the pretense, dropped the formality and said, i'm going drop the script and talk you right now and say, i have a sense of impending doom, is the term she used. she said, please continue to wear your masks. i know it feels like the end is around the corner and actually, it is, but we're not there yet. please wear your masks. to have to hear those pleas and hear the plea from president biden, who again talked about politics. this isn't about freedom. wearing your mask, actually, has always been the path to freedom, not a violation of your freedom. if you wore the mask early on, all wore the mask, we would be back at school and work and at those ball games you're talking about. there is, though, this sort of instinctive reaction to government telling people to do something. for a lot of people in this country, they say, i'm not going to do it, you can't tell me what to do, this is about my freedom. well, what about the health and the freedom of the millions of other people who want to stay healthy and get our country passed this moment? >> yeah, the selfishness is incredible. the stupidity is incredible. they've actually, they've taken a country where we've had people throughout the generations, you know, fight for liberty and fight for freedom freedom of speech, freedom to go to church if you want to or the mosque or not to go at all, the freedom of assembly. all of these freedoms, these idiots are now saying, i have the right to be stupid as hell. i have the right to believe stupid as hell people on facebook. i have the right to believe in conspiracy theories. and make you and your family and everyone around you in danger, put you in danger. okay, you do. you really do. so go ahead, like i said, go ahead, go live in your basement. but it's not going to stop us. and if we didn't have the guy that we had in the white house over the past four years, that number you're seeing on the screen, according to people who work for him and help run his task force, that number on the screen would have been a lot lower. >> dramatically lower. we would have saved more lives that american soldiers who died in combat in world war i. we would have saved so many lives. but you had to be stupid. you had to believe the stupid guy. i don't know -- you really, i can't help you, nobody can help you, right? if you still believe in job, get on your knees and ask why it is that your thought system, your belief system has been so corrupted that you follow qanon, that you follow conspiracy theories. that you believe liars on facebook instead of believing the truth. jesus said, i am the way, the truth -- when did that stop mattering to you? when did the truth stop mattering to you so much that you are willing to put other people's lives at risk. greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for his brother? you're doing the opposite. you're going out of your way to kill people. i just want to know why. mika, i don't understand why. >> and i think, you know, the added concern here is that in the united states of america, we have access to the greatest scientists and the greatest institutions, johns hopkins, you name it. and we had for over a year, a president running a pandemic, you know, overseeing a pandemic in our country, where he flouted science, where he laughed at science. where he literally made up stuff, along the way and brought not just people, perhaps, who were duped, who were lost, who needed to find a place for their anger, which is another discussion, but educated people within the republican party are still with him and still acting this way, now. when you can actually see the science, playing out in realtime. the cause and effect of social distancing, the cause and effect of masking. and of course, compared to trump, the brilliant rollout of this vaccine, which is going faster and faster by the day, just because someone who knows what he's doing is in charge and someone who respects science. >> but republicans are not just fighting. distancing. trump supporters, people who are still in that personality cult aren't just saying mask -- masks are no good. in fact, they spread disease. come on, stay away from household appliances. >> look at what happened to the flu this year. >> stay away from the blender. you're not meant for it. >> it's not that. >> but it's now vaccines. they've now moved on to vaccines. and you have -- you have donald trump -- it's all because of me. but you don't have to take the vaccine. but half of americans, half of people who supported donald trump don't want to take the vaccine. he's come out a couple of times and say, yeah, you should take the vaccine, i got one. >> no, i didn't. yes, i did. >> he's not showing any leadership. but why would he show leadership. he's never shown leadership. and instead, you have these anti-science people who are not only bashing the vaccine, but are also saying, no, you know what, we need to make sure that nobody in america knows who took the vaccine and who didn't take -- wrong! wrong! hey, you know what? you know what? you missed the stop. the train left the station. you're idiocy that you and the last president together helped kill hundreds of thousands of americans, that stop was like -- it left on january the 20th. and you're just standing there, by yourself. and look around at the idiots who were around you. who were saying, no social distancing. who were saying, no masking. who were attacking the vaccine. you guys want to stand there on that platform and get sick and kill each other, that's up to you. but we've moved on. >> yeah. >> stay out of leaders' way who want to make sure that we can once again go back to our life. we can once again take our kids to baseball games. we once again can go to concerts. we once again can get moving on with our lives by showing that we were not stupid enough to say "no" to a vaccine. >> it's the republican party -- >> really, seriously, you're such a joke. you're such a joke. all of you are such jokes. get a vaccine! get the vaccine receipt, go to a concert, go to a baseball game, live your life. >> yeah. >> okay. so willie, it's great to have you back. >> good to be back. >> and along with joe, willie and me, we have washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr., and founder of the conservative website, the bulwark and author of "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes. >> charlie sykes, these are people who voted for me. >> i think that's what hurts. >> these are people that you and i grew up in. these aren't people in mika's tribe. we never went to young marxist league meetings in manhattan. we're free marketeeres, we're small market people. we like judges who interpret the law and not make the law. that's our tribe. and yet these idiots that fought social distancing, that fought masking -- >> they're still doing it. >> -- that fought the vaccine, are still fighting the vaccine, and are still -- are now saying, oh, no, there should be no way to figure out who's going to be safe in crowds and who's not going to be safe in crowds. the idiocy is shocking and shameful because it comes from our tribe. >> it does come from our tribe. you know, i was listening to deborah birx over the weekend. the recklessness of the trump administration and it's still going on. and i think what's painful is listening to some of these people on the right, invoking the word freedom, but they've completely forgotten what the word freedom means. because what they are talking about is a kind of juvenile selfishness and recklessness that they wrap in the flag. or they comparison. rick grenell has a tweet where he's essentially comparing having to have a vaccine passport to nazis demanding the paper and the holocaust and hiding people under the floorboards. this is the kind of ridiculous thing. but your point about freedom, this is the path to freedom. to get back to our lives. and they are actively fighting it on so many levels. and watching these governors compete with one another, whether it's ron desantis or kristi noem, compete with one another, who can be the most reckless, who can open their state the most quickly. who can ignore the dangers the most brazenly. and you know, we are in this race. we are in a race between science and recklessness. ideologically driven recklessness. >> and everything we've been talking about contributes to what the director of the cdc said yesterday. as i mentioned, she issued a stark warning regarding the possibility now of a fourth wave of coronavirus. dr. rochelle walensky reported the number of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, all headed in the wrong direction now, because of more contagious variants, increased travel, and because states are loosening restrictions too quickly. than she did this. >> now is one of those times when i have to share the truth and i have to hope and trust you will listen. i'm going to pause here, i'm going to lose the script. and i'm going to reflect on the recurring feeling i have of impending doom. we have so much to look forward to, so much promise and potential of where we are and so much reason for hope, but right now, i'm scared. i so badly want to be done. i know you all so badly want to be done. we are just almost there, but not quite yet. and so i'm asking you to just hold on a little longer, to get vaccinated when you can, so that all of those people that we all love will still be here when this pandemic ends. we are not powerless. we can change this trajectory of the pandemic. but it will take all of us recommitting to following the public health prevention strategies consistently while we work to get the american public vaccinated. i'm calling on our elected officials, our faith-based communities, our civic leaders, and our other influencers in communities across the nation. and i'm calling on every single one of you to sound the alarm, to carry these messages into your community and your spheres of influence. we do not have the luxury of inaction for the health of our country, we must work together now to prevent a fourth surge. >> katty, we've had sort of at the same time here, the one-year anniversary of our country effectively being shut down or normal life being pulled away from us. and this miraculous development of vaccines that are now widespread and highly effective, which gets into people's minds, everybody's minds, okay, we've turned the corner. and what we heard from dr. walensky and even from president biden as he reinforced the need for mask mandates was, not there yet. we're not out of the woods. don't go back yet to your normal life yet. >> right. and it's really hard message when people have already spent a year and they think, well, hold on a second. there was meant to be hope at the end. tunnel and the weather is getting warmer, and i want to have that normal life again. it is -- we have been told by these experts for the last two or three months, we're in a total race right now. the number of people we can get vaccinated against these new variants that have come in from the uk, south africa, and brazil, that are more transmissible and more dangerous. in my household, we thought we were almost there. i got my vaccine, and on the same day i got my vaccine, my husband developed symptoms. so he went down with covid and my daughter went down with covid. so we have that incredible sense of frustration. we can see the finish line. i don't know if we changed our behavior particularly, but i know that my daughter's school had no cases for months and suddenly in one week had six cases. these new variants are out there, and they're right, rochelle walensky is right to say, you've got to sit tight a little bit longer, because if we don't get enough people vaccinated, then these new variants, particularly the once from south africa and brazil, which mess with these vaccines and the vaccines don't work as well on them, they could start spreading. we've seen europe go through this. europe is back in lockdown. it's a ghost town, europe cities. like it was right at the beginning of the lockdown. we're probably not going to get there, but we don't want to take that risk. >> i think the biggest problem is young people. you don't see any restrictions sometimes when you drive around and see bars and restaurants. they're out. they're out. and that's where it is really spreading. speaking from the white house yesterday, president biden echoed that warning from the cdc director and also urged state and local leaders to reimpose mask mandates. >> i'm reiterating my call for every governor, mayor, and local leader to maintain and reinstate the mask mandate. please, this is not politics. the failure to take this virus seriously is precisely what got us into this mess in the first place. because we're in the life and death race with a virus that is spreading quickly, with cases rising again, new variants are spreading and sadly some of the reckless behavior we've seen on tv means new cases are coming in the weeks ahead. >> eddie glaude, we're talking about not only a president and a very well-experienced scientists trying to talk about mask mandates, trying to talk about social distancing, trying to get that vaccine out, and we are hearing from people who ran the task force for the former president talking about how badly it went. and it's as if it finally gets to some sections of the american people, especially with republican leaders, that this is over. this is behind them, or this never happened, or this is all, you know, not really as bad as it should be. or they don't believe it. i mean, the messaging over a long period of time has been so convoluted, i fear that there's going to be many more lives lost because it was never given to the people fair and square and straight. >> yes, mika. i think that might be true. as we approach a number that, you know, rivals the death in the civil war. so, i think it's really important for us to understand this toxic combination of selfishness and stupidity and greed. there's a kind of rush to open up the economy so we can make money. of course, there's some reasons why folk are wanting to do this. but there's a sense that folk value money more than they value lives. and you combine that with the fact that folk read liberty with a synonym for selfishness and then people just simply aren't being reasonable. but underneath it all, and this is something we have to think about very carefully, this sense of mutuality, this sense of obligation to one's fellow, outside of one's immediate circle. this sense of care that is at the heart of a democratic policy has seemed to have eroded or shredded. the crisis in our democracy that we've been talking about at is certain level is being evidenced in this moment, not simply because people are being stupid, and some are, but simply because folks don't see their relationship with others, they don't care for others. even to appeal to patriotism in this moment, mika, seems to fall on deaf ears. and it reveals a deep problem in the country, it seems to me. >> and charlie, we can go back to talking about our tribe, because i'm endlessly fascinated and horrified by it, but growing up in the baptist church, what you were taught from day one, growing up in an evangelical church or catholic church, what you're taught from the very beginning is that the golden rule, do unto others that which you would have them do unto you. it is the core. like jesus' teachings, he says, all fall down on that commandment and the commandment, love god with all your heart so much. so that is at the core of christianity. it's the core of evangelical beliefs. you look at what people who claim to be christians, who claim to be evangelicals, who are, you know, going around and doing everything they can to push back and fight, whether it's knocking over masks in stores or whether it's being combative and believing qanon conspiracy theories. and helping the spread of a virus and a plague -- of a plague that's going to kill their neighbors, kill their friends, kill older people around them. and you just sit there and go, wonder, what's happened? where along the way did they -- did they forget everything that they claim to believe their whole lives. and what makes it most upsetting, charlie, and forgive me for going on here, but obviously i'm wound up on this, is that this is idolatry. this is idolatry that we read about in the old testament. donald trump was their idol. and what's so sickening about all of this is, if donald trump had decided to go the other route, to declare war on the virus, if he had been extreme in that direction, you and i both know, they would have all followed him. they would have been the biggest masked warriors of all time. they would have been the biggest warriors of the vaccinations of all time. they would have been militant about it. they would have said, you must do this to reopen our economy, to reopen our country, to give us our freedom back. but donald trump decided to go the other way, so they're in a cult, they're following an idol and this is where we are, over 500,000 people dead. >> yeah, you would think with 500,000 dead, people would look around and they would think, what have we done here. what did we miss? i want to go back to what eddie said and you were just underlying. it's not just that they redefined freedom into this juvenile selfishness, it is this complete loss of obligation to one another, to just basic patriotic values, looking out for one another. why do we wear masks? we wear masks because we care about the health of other people. because we want to show, not to show, but we want to show that we take the health of the community, of other people seriously. so you have two things. you have this distortion of the idea of freedom. and then you have the loss of the idea of obligation and kindness to others. and this really does feel like a societal sickness. that we don't look out for one another. that we want to party more than we care about protecting the vulnerable among us. you know, joe, you're mentioning, you know, christianity. we just had a poll showing that for the first time, less than half of americans now attend church. we're losing our religion. well, part of it is, you know, people look at religion and christianity and they say, is this about kindness, is this about caring for other people? is this about the defense of life and about these values? well, no. it's devolved into something very different. so it does feel, doesn't it, like we're being tested. we're tested by the insurrection, we're tested by this pandemic. what would america do if they saw the worst possible outcomes from this kind of rhetoric and these kind of attitudes? the answer is, i'm sorry to say, not reassuring. >> and we'll continue this. still ahead on "morning joe," it's something we've been asking for more than a year now. where did the coronavirus originate? nbc news has obtained -- >> montana? >> -- a leaked copy of a highly anticipated report addressing that question. nbc's keir simmons joins us with that new reporting. >> and not to kill hamlet in the first act, but the world health organization embarrassed themselves gen. we know where it started. >> okay. we'll be right back. >> i look at it this way. the first time we have an excuse, there were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge. all of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially if we took the lessons we had learned from that moment. that's what bothers me every day. ha tt moment that's what bothers me every day. u managing your diabetes... ...using fingersticks? with the new freestyle libre 2 system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose with a painless, one-second scan. and now with optional alarms, you can choose to be notified if you go too high or too low. and for those who qualify, the freestyle libre 2 system is now covered by medicare. ask your doctor for a prescription. you can do it without fingersticks. learn more at freestyle libre 2 dot u.s. ♪♪ and in an emergency, they need a network that puts them first. that connects them to technology, to each other, and to other agencies. that's why at&t built firstnet with and for first responders the emergency response network authorized by congress. firstnet. because putting them first is our job. how great is it that we get to tell everybody how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? i mean it... uh-oh, sorry... oh... what? i'm an emu! no, buddy! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ i am of the point of view that i still think the most likely ideology of this virus from wuhan was from a laboratory, escaped. other people don't believe that, that's fine. science will eventually figure it out. it's not unusual for respiratory pathogens that are being worked on in a laboratory to infect the laboratory work. >> that was former cdc worker dr. robert redfield on saturday endorsing the theory that the coronavirus came from a lab accident in wuhan, china. but now the world health organization is offering a different explanation or several explanations, actually. in a joint study expected to be released today, the w.h.o and china, the chinese government, say that the lab theory sun likely. they also say the best theory for how covid started was animal-to-human transmission. but the report is being met with a great deal of skepticism, as beijing never allowed full access to investigators. nbc news senior international correspondent keir simmons obtained a copy of the report. and he joins us now from london. keir, good morning, it's good to see you. there's been a lot of skepticism, as i said, around this. dr. fauci said, i want to see the underlying information. i want to see the data that went into this. secretary of state blinken said, well, china helped author this report, so take it with a grain of salt. so what were you able to cull from reading through the report? >> reporter: hey, willie. well, i think the conclusion at this stage is that there are an awful lot of people with a lot of theorys and not a lot of evidence. be that lab leaks, be that transmission from bats to another animal to humans, be it the chinese idea that maybe it was imported on frozen foods. this is a copy of that leaked report, obtained by us at nbc news. 12 pages. we think when it's published later today, there will be appendices in here, as well. and i mean, you can see, willie, it's thick, so there's a lot in here, it is thorough, but to summarize, it is a thorough evaluation of chinese scientists' analysis. and just to give you one example, on the sensitive issue of whether there was more coronavirus in the wuhan region back in late 2019, it says that doctors and scientists in china evaluated 76,000 cases of illness in hospitals, narrowed them down, and this is a panel of people. it's not an algorithm. so how narrowed them down to 92 cases that might have been coronavirus, tested some of those 92 people. found them all to be negative. and therefore, dismissed the suggestion that there would have been a lot more coronavirus around. the report is relatively cynical, if you like, about that. and says more research needs to be done. it's just one example. and as you mentioned, the context of this is the u.s. government's concern about a lack of transparency by the chinese government in beijing. this was secretary blinken talking to andrea mitchell a little earlier this year. >> there's no doubt that especially when covid-19 first hit, but even today, china is falling far short of the mark when it comes to providing the information necessary to the international community, making sure that experts have access to china. all of -- that lack of transparency, that lack of being forthcoming is a profound problem. and it's one that continues. and so as we're thinking about both dealing with this pandemic, but also making sure we're in a position to prevent the next one, china has to step up and make sure that it is being transparent, that it is providing information and sharing information. that it is giving access to international experts and inspectors. >> on the question of a lab leak, guys, the report says that it is extremely unlikely. what's going to raise eyebrows is that it at the same time says there is grounds for investigating military games that were held in china, which the chinese government has suggested, because there were americans there, maybe that would be a source. it also says that it's worth investigating frozen foods, as i mentioned, another chinese theory. i mean, crucially, just on the front here, it's called a joint w.h.o/china study. so it's very explicit. it's a study by the w.h.o -- by independent experts brought in by the w.h.o, international experts, and the chinese. that's what it is. >> all right. thank you so much, keir. we greatly appreciate it. you know, willie, as we -- as we sit here, let me just write down and put into this box -- >> what is he doing? >> things that trump got right. >> that's my makeup box. >> i'll put that in there. one of them is the skepticism of the world health organization and the fact that they continue to humiliate themselves by being obsequious to china. i don't know if china gives them most of their funding or not. i suppose if you're china -- i mean, if you have an international organization that's allowing you to manipulate them as much as -- well, the united states has done that before. so i will say, this is not on china. this is on the world health organization. why do they continue doing this? saying, we know the virus started in china. most likely in wuhan. so if that's the case, do you really want to have a joint study with the country and the government that has not been transparent from the very beginning? i mean, you had members of the trump administration, certainly not donald trump, he was talking about how great president xi was on january the 24th. and thank you for your transparency. i'll have to take that out of the box. but there were people in -- like pottinger who were warning, the chinese need to be more open with us, we need to get information from china. they wouldn't give it to us in december. they wouldn't give it to us in early january of 2020. they wouldn't do it. so why is the world health organization teaming up with china and the government to put together this report that's a scam? like, why is it that they're undermining their credibility when we all know what's going on here? >> it's funding. it's funding. and we've pulled some of our funding, as you mentioned, president trump did that, as you placed that neatly into the box. but there are obviously massive problems with this report, as keir laid out. the fundamental problem is the underlying data that supports and drives this report comes from the government of china, which as you just said, has not been forthcoming with any of its data. that's why you had people like dr. fauci saying, okay, we have the report. i would like to see the underlying data so i can drawn my own conclusions. you had last week secretary blinken saying, the methodology of this is all wrong. it was co-authored by the chinese government. this can't be seen as a clear-eyed and fair report. so what you have now, as keir sort of ticked through is a muddled report saying, it's unlikely it was this, it was unlikely it was that, and here are a couple of other theories, but draws no real conclusions, or certainly no real conclusions that would indict china on releasing the virus or letting it get out, and not sharing details of how it got out so the rest of the world could stop it. >> all right. coming up, we are following the latest developments in the murder trial of derek chauvin, the former minneapolis police officer charged in the death of george floyd. we'll go live to minneapolis next on "morning joe." minneapos next on "morning joe." i mean it... uh-oh, sorry... oh... what? i'm an emu! no, buddy! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it's the most comfortable, dually-adjustable, foot-warming, temperature-balancing... proven quality night sleep we've ever made. the 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>> reporter: good morning. we really got a sense of what the next few days and weeks will be like in this trial of derek chauvin, the officer accused of killing george floyd. we heard the arguments from both the defense and prosecution laying out their case, previewing their witnesses, and showing what their main arguments will be as weapon continue to watch this trial. for the prosecution, they made very clear that the focus will be on that video. the video that really sparked the social justice movement that went viral on facebook after floyd was killed. they adjusted the time, saying that he was under the knee of derek chauvin for more than nine minutes or for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. that's more than the 8 minutes and 46 seconds that prosecutors and investigators originally announced. they said that through that video, that is what the jury should focus on as they're making their decision on these three charges that the ex-officer is facing. the second degree murder, the third-degree murder, that second-degree manslaughter. for the defense, they're saying, it's not just about those 9 minutes and 29 seconds, but it's about the entire context of situation. the drugs in floyd system, the resistance of officers, the crowd that was beginning to form. you've got to sense after months and months of pre-trial arguments and previews and orders, you really got a sense of what both sides will lean into as they make their case to their 14-member jury panel. >> nbc's shaquille brewster, thank you very much, live from minneapolis. >> thank you so much. >> it's going to be a really crushing trial to watch. there's going to be -- you get a sense that the defense is going to put out there that, you know, george floyd was putting up a fight and was creating a problem, but some of the witnesses yesterday talked about police disturbing him. so you really saw the two sides really ginning up what they were going to lay out over the next couple of weeks. eddie glaude, your thoughts as this trial begins, during these really turbulent times. >> yeah, in so many ways, the trial bears the wait of the kind of racial reckoning the nation is experiencing. not only did we see the video footage over and over again, when it happened, now the nation will have to relive that and you can imagine the family having to relive it. you can imagine black america having to relive it. and those who are concerned about decency having to relive it. but what's interesting is as the trial bears the wait of the country's reckoning, it also bears the wait of this collision. and you can hear it in the very ways in which the prosecution presented its case and the defense presented its case. the fact that we hear that he's large and he's dangerous, that he was on drugs, that the high-crime neighborhood was dangerous. right? all of the kinds of images and references that we've heard before in this moment, in these sorts of moments. and so we will see where we are, you know, where we are as a country, whether or not the skepticism that has animated black america still obtains. this is part of the racial american theater. here we are once again on stage, trying to figure out what the hell will happen. and i think the nation's gut is clenched in so many ways, has really tightened. who knows? >> you know it is. and this was a moment that i think broke through so much, because it was so difficult to watch what was happening to george floyd over those nine minutes. and it was heartbreaking. people weeping across the country, black, white, hispanic, asian americans. so many people weeping and shocked by it. and yet, it goes back to what i was saying a couple of days ago, about, we need to remember what happened on january the 6th and see those images, just like i believed after 9/11, we needed to see the images of what had happened to those towers. well, eddie, america has seen those nine minutes repeatedly, and it's just as sickening, the 100th time you see it, as the first time you see it. doesn't that make what is riding on this trial and this verdict, doesn't that make, make it all the more critical, that this jury and this courtroom gets it right? >> joe, you know, you're absolutely right. i'm just trying to imagine what will happen if this jury doesn't get it right, but i think, you know, it all hinges upon how people view the person under chauvin's knee. do they see george floyd as a human being? do they value his life the way they value other people's lives? look, the 911 dispatcher said she saw something, it didn't look right. not george floyd's behavior, but the police's behavior and she called the supervisor. what else did we see in this opening argument. we saw that a police officer tried to find the pulse of george floyd and said there's no pulse and chauvin kept his knee on his neck, nevertheless, for minutes afterwards. so you're absolutely right, joe, that the image should at least spark some sense of empathy, some deep sense of revulsion of what we saw. but it all depends on whether or not we are a country that values black bodies like we do white bodies. and we have to see what happens. >> still ahead, there are growing calls for an economic boycott of georgia-based businesses after new voting restrictions were signed into law. we'll run through that next on "morning joe." we'll run through that next on "morning joe." want to make a name for yourself in gaming? then make a name for yourself. even if your office, and bank balance are... far from glamorous. that means expensing nothing but pizza. your expenses look good, and your books are set for the month! ...going up against this guy... and pitching your idea 100 times. no, no, no! no. i like it. -he likes it! ...and you definitely love that. intuit quickbooks helps small businesses be more successful with payments, payroll, banking and live bookkeeping. senate democrats think they may have found a way to pass their priorities without republican support. a senate aide telling nbc news majority leader chuck schumer's team made the argument to the senate parliamentarian that reconciliation can be used more than just once a year. reconciliation is the process, you'll remember, that allows bills to pass the senate with a simple majority vote and would let democrats work around the filibuster. senate democrats have not yet decided on this strategy, but could use the idea to force republican cooperation. if the parliamentarian agrees, democrats could pass bills at least three more times before the midterms using reconciliation, mika. in a major breach of cybersecurity, we are learning that suspected russian hackers gained access to the department of homeland security officials' email accounts under the trump administration. it's unclear how damaging the intrusion was, but acting secretary chad wolf and his staff were part of the targeted effort. hackers also gained access to the schedules of former top energy officials. the accounts were addressed as part of what's known as the solarwinds breach. dhs provided a statement to the hill, saying a, quote, small number of employees' accounts were targeted. and in honor of national vietnam war veterans' day, president biden and dr. jill biden paid their respects at the vietnam veterans' memorial near the white house yesterday afternoon. the first lady placing white flowers at the base of the memorial wall and both observing a moment of silence. they jointly traced the name of dennis shine, a massachusetts-born army corporal who was killed during the war in 1969, though it's unclear whether the bidens have a direct connection to him. the president and first lady later greeted and spoke with veterans. joe, as you know, spending a lot of time in washington, there are few more powerful places in our country than the vietnam memorial wall, where you can just sit back and look at 58,000 names, trace somebody who is meaningful to you, perhaps somebody you know who died in the war, but it takes your breath away every time you stand in front of it. >> it really does. and it's so interesting, when the memorial was first laid out and a lot of americans got their first look at it, there were actually concerns and some protests that it was too nondescript. it actually is, as you said, it is so moving and early in the morning, later in the afternoon at dusk, it is -- it's not many more moving memorials in washington, d.c. or anywhere around the country. charlie sykes, as we look at joe biden, i'm curious, how you're doing making the shift from -- much like me -- being concerned about our constitutional republic, being concerned about the future of western liberal democracy, under four years of donald trump, and now shifting to looking at joe biden as pd and being glad that the barbarians were left out of the gate. those that wanted to tear our constitution to shreds. those who committed sedition against the united states. but how are you sorting through legislation thus far that is left of center and being praised by progressives? >> no, there's no question about it. there's going to be a lot that i disagree with. but i have to say that i'm still basking in the transition to normalcy, to empathy, to seeing someone who is serious about doing their job. so at this point, looking with i've told you this before. you know, i guess, i've come to the point where i can disagree with you on six or eight out of ten issues, but if you're an honorable, honest, decent, empathetic human being, we can do business, and i'm still there. >> and i'm still there on the rule of law. if you defend and cherish the rule of law, which the last president did not, this president obviously does, if you cherish western democratic institutions, which the last president did not, this president does, if you understand the basic tenants of madsonnian democracy and checks and balances and understand how critical that has been to this republic, the last president did not, this president -- charlie, at that point, i'm with you, i would prefer there to be more conservatives stepping up and doing what they used to claim they support, what they always told us they supported. i'm just wondering, do you see any conservative out there, do you see any republican out there on the national stage that's talking like that right now? >> no, everybody's keeping their heads down right now. that's the weird thing, that even as donald trump himself begins to decline into being a wedding crasher, his hold on the republican party is so intense. i thought there was a moment after january 6th where republicans were going to step up and say, hey, you know, can we get back to actually talking about the ideas, the issues, the principles that we claim to hold dear. but right now, they've also basically gone turtle on this president. so, no, i'm not hearing them right now. >> yeah. thank you so much, charlie. we greatly appreciate you being with us. and mika, i guess you could put in that club liz cheney, mitt romney, and a couple of other republicans. but my gosh, out of 535 members of congress there, half of them republicans, unfortunately two, three, four, those aren't good percentages. coming up, health officials are sounding the alarm as coronavirus cases across the country rise again. could the u.s. be headed for a fourth wave? "morning joe" is coming right back. k mower, cuts the hassle out of yardwork. ♪ ♪ run with us, because the best job is the one that's easily done. nothing runs like a deere. search john deere z365r for more. ♪ ♪i've got the brains you've got the looks♪ ♪let's make lots of money♪ ♪you've got the brawn♪ ♪i've got the brains♪ ♪let's make lots of♪ ♪uh uh uh♪ ♪oohhh there's a lot of opportunities♪ with allstate, drivers who switched saved over $700. saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate click or call to switch today. at jackson hewitt, we offer safe and easy ways to file with a skilled tax pro. securely drop off your documents, have them picked up, or upload them, and work with a tax pro online from home. safe and easy ways to file that work around you. welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, march 30th. the bbc's katty kay is still with us, along with joe, willie, and me. and joining the conversation, we have pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. and national security expert, columnist at "usa today," and author of the book, "the death of expertise," tom nichols. good to have you all onboard. it is the top of the hour. >> by the way, i have an announcement to make. tom and i have an announcement to make. >> please don't. >> tom, we don't exactly know how we're going to do this or where we're going to do this. >> tom doesn't know you're talking about. >> yes, he does. >> i do. >> i'm thinking about doing it on monday, but we have roger bennett on mondays and he takes up so much space, so i'm not sure we can do it there, but tom and dennis herring and charlie pierce, they listen to at-40, casey kasem's top 40 countdowns, you know, it's on sirius, the 70s channel. >> because that's how old we are. >> and they comment on them. and i've got to say, i've been thinking, tom, of deleting twitter about a thousand times since 2009, but i actually -- habit halfway through follow your commentary on saturday, i said, wait a second. this is why i got on to twitter, to talk to people about music. like a community in music. and of course things went badly starting in 2009, but they corrected 2021. so i think we need to have a weekly at-40 segment, and check get them with 1970s casey kasem countdowns. and we can introduce an entirely new generation to the awe and awesomeness and awfulness that was pop music in the 1970s. because it's always a weird trip through, you know, things that you didn't remember and sometimes wish you could forget, but, you know, it's part of our musical heritage and dennis and charlie and i just, you know, stare into the musical abyss once a week and it's a lot of fun. >> it's a lot of fun. you know, willie, it's so interesting. so charlie pierce, of course, is -- he's not a rock snob, he's a rock connoisseur. and you know, he, he really -- charlie -- i mean, he's like heilemann, right? so sort of evaluated taste. and just in music, just in music. but he's got evaluated tastes. he's not a bubble gum rock guy or anything like that. so we're going down the countdown, charlie's giving his great insights and they play i think the carpenter. it's a 1970s countdown. >> this is a little too into the weeds. >> it only gets longer every time you interrupt, mika. and i'm expecting charlie pierce to trash the carpenters. instead, he writes something like -- >> oh, no. >> writes something like, you know, there have been some people who have criticized karen carpenter's voice in front of me in my presence before. those people have not been seen or heard of since. so it's interesting, in this group, some rock snobs, some like just at-40 fans. karen carpenter, it's amazing the legendary status that she's obtained among most rock critics. in the early 1970s, they were dismissed, karen and richard, as bubble gum pop. >> heilemann's the rock snob. he's the cool kid at the party that won't let you touch his records. charlie has a really well-developed sense of -- and appreciation for cheese. and when that came on, we were like david spade in thesing ing karen carpenter at the top of your lungs. if you can't do that with karen carpenter singing, you're lost. >> whatever get you through these pandemic times. >> sounds like a podcast, guys. >> very obscure one. okay. >> -- and go with it. >> okay. >> and by the way, also, i gave tom the right and the okay to sing alone to barry manilow and -- >> absolutely. >> good god, okay. >> it's in the constitution. >> we're going to do the news now. former president trump went a tirade -- >> do we have to? that went downhill fast. >> yeah, but this is actually important. -- against his administration's top coronavirus advisers, doctors anthony fauci and deborah birx. trump lashed out after the two were interviewed for a cnn special entitled "covid war: the pandemic doctors speak out," and boy did they ever speak out. in a statement, trump writes, "in a fake interview last night on cnn, dr. fauci, who said he was an athlete in college, but couldn't throw a baseball --" oh, good lord. i'm not reading this, but you get the point. >> so anthony fauci was an athlete and if you look at donald trump struggling to walk around a golf course, is this really the guy that's going to ridicule other people for not being athletes. but anyway, he goes through there, spreads more lies about fauci and birx. and it's just, it's more of the same. he just looks more desperate, more isolated, more sad from mar-a-lago and as small as usual doing this. i know there are a lot of people saying, oh, trump's coming back, trump's coming back. he sure doesn't look like that. >> joe, he's crashing weddings at mar-a-lago. he walked into a wedding, did his photo op, and took the mic. and he went on and on talking about how the election was stolen, he was tougher at the border. can you imagine being the father and mother of the bride and this guy is hijacking the wedding at mar-a-lago. he's shouting into the void. it's easy to laugh him off, but this is still a man who holds great pull over a large population in this country. and if he would come forward and say, it is important to wear masks, it is important to go get your vaccination -- he's said it a couple of times sort of obliquely, but then walked it back. if he would step up and understand the power of his words, he does know the power of his words and chooses not to use them. but if he really understood the good he could do in this country by not just screaming about stolen elections at a wedding, if he came out and said, go get the vaccine, life goes back to normal, boy, that would be a valuable use of his time. instead of stealing the mic at weddings at mar-a-lago. >> but, gene, he's never been able to do anything that's not directly about him. everything has to be about him. even things that aren't about him, he will talk about them as if they are about him. so now, yes, he's reduced to crashing weddings. >> yeah, it's pathetic. it is a -- i agree with the pathetic analysis of this period in donald trump's life. i mean, it's -- and -- the thing is that there are a lot of people who still follow and believe in donald trump. there are not a lot of people who care what he said at the wedding that he crashed. and it is -- it's kind of pitiful. he's, you know, what he, i guess, said about doctors fauci and birx, it's, he's grasping for the larger relevance that he had. and i think we cannot overestimate the importance of the day when twitter pulled the plug on donald trump. and he had -- it took away this megaphone that he used. and, he just doesn't know what to do with himself. he's not coming back. i don't think he's coming back as a political figure, but he's going to be shouting from the sidelines, i guess, for a long time. >> and he used that platform to spread disinformation and dangerous theories that led to an insurrection on january the 6th. led to dangerous conspiracy theories that actually led to people acting dangerously in a way that killed over 500,000 americans. and katty kay, you listen to what deborah birx said, somebody that had a very strained relationship with donald trump and a strained relationship with the media. and right now, obviously, her legacy is divided, if you just look, she's got harsh critic attacking her. but deborah birx said, again, somebody that was inside during all of it. she said, you know, the first 100,000 deaths after the coronavirus hit, well, you know, that was the first wave and there wasn't a lot that many scientists thought we could do without that. but it's the next 400 -- the next 450,000 that the trump administration may be culpable for, if we had acted more swiftly, if we had acted more responsibly, a lot of those lives could have been saved and a lot of those deaths could have been mitigated and greatly reduced. i mean, that's -- that's a hell of a stinging indictment on donald trump. >> yeah, and the fact that you have these senior officials coming out so soon after the end of the trump administration and slamming his leadership of this and saying, you know, nobody in the white house took it seriously, it was known within the white house that you weren't meant to be wearing a mask around the white house because the president didn't want that to be seen, but you're right. birx has a complicated legacy here, she also went on television early on in the pandemic and said, president trump has an extraordinary grasp of the facts and is really steeped in all of this stuff. some of what she says is taken with a pinch of salt, and u.s. is just trying to resurrect her own legacy. but to have one official after another say, there was no leadership, there was an anti-mask attitude in the white house, and realized that if you'd had clarity of message, if you'd hat universal pushing of masks much earlier on, if you'd clarity around the border in the u.s., if you'd had a much more ramped up testing and tracing system, which america never really did all the testing, potentially hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved. it just took better leadership. there was no national strategy for dealing with the pandemic under the previous administration. and what we've seen since the biden administration has come in, and he was -- you know, to some extent, he was lucy the vaccine was ready and prepared, but there's been a dramatic ramping up of competence. and i think competence and distribution of the vaccine. and that's where you really see the difference, it's night and day. >> yeah, you had good people in the administration or in the covid task force, trying their best, tom nichols, which i guess leads to the question, how responsible is trump for the 550,000 deaths from the coronavirus, given that he spoke to bob woodward early on in this. he is quoted as knowing that this was deadly? >> i think the most amazing part of this is that even now, the former president still thinks of the pandemic as a political problem, as something that was an annoyance that got in the way of his ability to stay in the white house and not a dire crisis that threatened millions of american lives. even now, all he wants out of this is credit. in the people speaking out, you can hear them. you can hear them basically saying, we were all hamstrung by the fact that this was a political problem, not a public health problem, not a national crisis, not a medical problem. and i think, you know, i think a lot of the folks around him bear responsibility. he's the president. it happens on his watch, it's his team. i think there's a real question about when it is that you just walk in and say, okay, mr. president, aisle done, i quit, i resign. especially in this administration, the minute you walk at fox and news max and oam and all the other outlets will simply dog pile you and you go from having some limited influence over what's going on to having no influence at all and basically becoming hunted by what we now know to be right-wing, you know, people on the right wing who will resort to violence. to think that dr. fauci still has to walk around with secret service protection is crazy. >> just unbelievable. >> but that was the way the president -- >> yeah. >> willie, i want to follow up briefly on what tom said. of course, i'm not going to follow up briefly on anything. it's going to take long. no, but tom talked about people doing their best and then having to leave and you don't know who follows them. again, i know this triggers a lot of people, a lot of snowflakes start melting when i say things like this, but i actually, i look at dr. birx and yes, there were times where she really frustrated me, really, really made me angry while i was watching those press conferences. but the easy thing for her to do would have been to quit and let somebody like scott atlas come in much earlier. so for everybody that just says, oh, she should have just quit, she should have just left, well, you know what? actually, no. sometimes staying in there and dealing with a maniac on matters of science, because you know somebody like scott at last is coming in next, sometimes that's the hardest thing to do. i ask these people that called deborah birx all the names they called deborah birx, was america in better hands with deborah birx inside the white house or scott atlas inside the white house? you can say the same thing throughout the administration. gary cohn. yeah, gary cohn made a lot of people -- but we were better off with gary cohn inside the white house than outside the white house. you can say the same thing about general mattis. a lot of people say, he should just quit, he should just resign, how can he stay in there? we were a hell of a lot better off with james mattis in the pentagon than a lot of the clowns who followed him. it is -- again, it's -- because it's not black and white, i know it's hard for people to grasp, some people to grasp on twitter, but deborah birx was working a tightrope and if you think she should have quit much earlier, if people think that, that's fine, but there's an argument to be made that she actually staying in there and being humiliated time and again and slugging it out and fighting behind the scenes probably did a lot more good than if she had quit earlier and let an idiot like scott atlas go in there. >> and dr. fauci didn't quit. i didn't hear the same calls for him, why didn't he step aside? no, people wanted dr. fauci in there the way they wanted dr. birx. i take your point. and i also would just say, that the guidance people from the outside, who haven't been around donald trump, the people like dr. deborah birx is, flattery of this man gets you what you want from him. if you do it in public, all the better. so she went out and said things that made a lot of us cringe about donald trump, his handling of the facts and the way he was handling the crisis, which we knew was not true, but the way to move forward with this president is to flatter him. as sad as that is. she made a lot of things that made a lot of people mad, but the alternative is dr. scott atlas, which is, donald trump is watching fox news, says a guy saying something flattering, again, about him, he says something that sort of jives with his belief system, and he says, bring me that guy, put him in, and you have a quack like dr. scott atlas making decisions on behalf of the country that may have cost lives because of the people that were in there. i understand people's frustrations with dr. deborah birx on many levels, but we would much rather have her at the side of the president than another scott atlas. >> i think it's very hard to judge, that's for sure. michael gerson has a column in "the washington post" stating, the gop is facing a sickness deeper than the coronavirus. and it reads in part, "it is a sign of the sickness deeper than covid-19 that the defiance of public health guidance has become a political selling point in the republican party. in the not-so-distant past, republican governors competed with their colleagues to author innovative welfare reform or criminal justice proposals. now, bad covid policy is a point of pride and a path to influence. how is this performance by many republican governors not discrediting, even disqualifying? why does it not generate more outrage that many republican governors are continuing these policies, even as infections spread and virus mutations accumulate? realistically, this is because the economic benefits of covid irresponsibility are immediate and obvious to everyone. and even twice, a very small risk is still a very small risk. but this reasoning requires us to abandon our social solidarity with the elderly and vulnerable, who bear a disproportionate cost. and i fear it indicates a wide streak of social darwinian callousness in the american right. willie? >> tom nichols, the reason that governors give for this and it's understandable is that their economies are collapsing. that they want to get their people back to work and we've got to drop some of these restrictions to get schools open and get businesses back. but again, to michael gerson's larger point and something joe touched on at the top of the show is, where is the solidarity with your neighbor? where is that sort of religious in some ways solidarity with your neighbor, with your friend, with your elderly, with your relative you've been checking on and worried about. where is that feeling of community when you think about getting back and dropping mask restrictions and opening restaurants and bars and all the things that could lead to community spread just as we're at the edge of hopefully getting out of this, where is that broad sentiment from many of these governors and municipalities as they rush back in? >> the republican party, whatever its faults 30, 40 years ago, was a different party in that respect in the sense of being a party that was almost too much about rationality rather than heart. and calculation rather than empathy. now it's become a party that does neither. it's neither rationale or empathetic. it's purely based on short-term political gain. it's become a party that only thinks much like its new leader, donald trump. it's a party that only thinks in terms of capturing the next news cycle, making sure that the most vocal and angry part of the primary electorate is satisfied. and pretty much to hell with everyone else. and that's not just a callousness toward the vulnerable and the elderly, as michael gerson put it, it's a callousness towards everyone who isn't your voter at that moment. who isn't -- doesn't happen to be on your side or supporting you at that moment. and i think it's really even beyond social darwinism. i think it's really this kind of neoistic, what's good for me is what's good for me, and it's only in terms of surviving the next news cycle, making it through the next primary and everything else is really just kind of noise. the idea that republicans -- i mean, it's important to remember that in 1980, senator daniel patrick moynihan, a democrat, said the republicans are now the party of ideas. that 40 years ago seems like a thousand years ago now. now the republicans are party of winning in the next ten minutes and let tomorrow take care of itself and the hell with everybody else. >> so katty kay, again, just to sort of put the stakes down in this conversation, we all know who trump is and we know he's not going to change and there's obvious realities that he brings to the table. but our questions are about the gop and how sick the party has become or cult like, following him blindly. and i would add to that, media enterprises, media empires that are used by the gop to continue the cycle. >> yeah. and gene, i wonder if we're also at a moment where there's a realization that there could be some self-harm in this. when you look at how much the vaccine is spreading around the country, which is the one group that is proving to be countrywide, the most resistant to taking that vaccine? it's white republican men, over 50% of them say they're not going to take the vaccine. so that following donald trump's kind of to the end and extrapolating from him and somehow getting into this "we're not going to take the vaccine" because trump didn't do one, or he did one in secret, and seems to embody our anti-vaccine movement, the rest of the country could well end up be vaccinated and the people who are going to be left out and hurt by this weird phase they're in, are going to be donald trump supporters. >> absolutely. and it's not just trump that they're following. it's the republican governors, for example, who are essentially saying, we'll never have vaccination passports and we'll never do that and we'll never do this. and basically, siding with ignorance and siding with the prolongation of the pandemic. and that's really the tragedy is that if really substantial number of people for dumb political reasons refuse to get vaccinated and if they are encouraged in this by their political leadership in the states, that's going to delay the day when we can all get back to the new normal, at least, it's going to delay the time when everything can reopen. it's going to encourage more spread of the disease. the development of more variants, possibly more dangerous variants. it's a tragedy unfolding and no, you can't lay all this at the feet of donald trump, because, you know, he's down in mar-a-lago crashing weddings. it's the people he left behind, still in office, still with power and influence, the republicans who are doing this great, great disservice to the nation. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to talk to one of the biden administration's top immigration officials. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're strong. you power through chronic migraine - 15 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before they even start for 10 years. so, ask your doctor about botox® today. it's a thirteen-hour flight, that's not a weekend trip. fifteen minutes until we board. oh yeah, we gotta take off. you downloaded the td ameritrade mobile app so you can quickly check the markets? yeah, actually i'm taking one last look at my dashboard before we board. excellent. and you have thinkorswim mobile- -so i can finish analyzing the risk on this position. you two are all set. have a great flight. thanks. we'll see ya. ah, they're getting so smart. choose the app that fits your investing style. ♪♪ why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because a good night's rest is where muscles recover, and our minds are restored. introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed. the only bed that effortlessly adjusts to both of you. proven quality sleep, is life-changing sleep. welcome back to "morning joe." now to the latest numbers from the southern border. as of sunday, there are nearly 5,800 unaccompanied children in custody with customs and border protection. nearly 12,000 unaccompanied children in custody under the department of health and human resources. that's up from last sunday, when there were nearly 4,900 children in border patrol custody and just over 3,300 children in custody for more than 72 hours. according to two sources to nbc, the biden administration will hold a bipartisan briefing tomorrow to update house lawmakers about the crisis at the southern border. joining us now from the white house, special assistant to the president and coordinator of the southwest border, ambassador roberta jacobson. she visited mexico last week, as part of the biden administration's attempt at diplomacy to quell this unfolding crisis. ambassador jacobson, thank you for being with us this morning. bring us up to speed about what's happening at the border and what the administration is doing to ease the overcrowding at these facilities? >> reporter: good morning, willie. thanks for having me. i think that we're doing everything we can. this is an all-hands-on-deck challenge. as you can see from the number of unaccompanied children who are in hhs custody, we are moving smartly to expand the amount of space that we have, which is appropriate for children, and moving children out of border patrol station and cbp facilities as quickly as we can. but this is really a challenge that confronts us in the united states, it confronts mexico, and obviously, it confronts the countries from which these migrants come, because of the economic situation there and the threat of violence. >> ambassador, it's not just republican critics who are saying this wave of migrants to the border is because of a new administration. it's many of the migrants themselves, who our reporters are talking to down there, who are saying, we thought under donald trump it was going to be hard to get in here, and even if we got in, that we might get deported, but we believe that joe biden talking about a more humane policy at the border makes it easier for us to get here and easier to stay once we're in. is that not true? what do you say to those migrants? >> i think there's a couple of things that we say. first of all, we don't apologize for the fact that this is a president who has a more humane policy. the president said it himself the other day during his press conference. he's not going to apologize for taking care of children who come unaccompanied across the border. but i think we have to make sure that people understand that the border is not open. that the majority of people, especially single adults, will be expelled or deported. and that people need towns that this is not the way to come to the united states. that we are working on legal pathways. on options that they can have to stay in their home countries. we are surging humanitarian assistance after two hurricanes last november. so the message to migrants is that, in fact, do not come this way. it is dangerous. it's dangerous because of violence and criminal organizations. it's also dangerous because of covid. the more people move in groups and end up together in facilities, the more dangerous it is for them, whether that's along the route in groups or in mexico or once they come in. >> do not come, the message from the biden administration right now. but there are many, as we just laid out, children who are already there in those facilities, ambassador. what happens to those kids. how do you reunite them with families. how do you find them somebody in the united states, because by the day, those facilities are getting more crowded, as you know. >> well, the first thing you do is you accelerate the processing of matching those children to their families. the vast majority of unaccompanied children who come are older children between 15 and 17. they know family members in the united states. sometimes it's parents, sometimes it's grandparents. and we have reengineered our system to ensure that that matching, that connection to their family takes place much more rapidly and that they can then move on from hhs facilities to family members. if they don't have family members in the u.s., they are matched with sponsors. foster families or other environments that are appropriate for children, equally rapidly. so that is what we're doing right now, is making sure that we get these children into a home setting as quickly as possible. >> ambassador katty kay with the bbc has a question for you. katty? >> ambassador, can you imagine any scenario under which the biden administration decides that it has to reverse the reversal of the policy and send back unaccompanied children? because however much the president says, don't come at the moment, however much you say, the door is not open, the journey is dangerous, the message that these kids are getting in honduras and el salvador and guatemala is, there is a window now to come. so i don't see how you get out of these large number of children arriving if they are of the understanding that if they can cross the border, they will be able to stay in the united states, either in facilities, or better for them, with family members or foster families. >> well, i think there's a couple of things that we do in response. the first is to make sure that we have, as robust messaging as the smugglers do. and let's be honest. people who are encouraging unaccompanied children or migration through irregular means are mostly the smugglers who are agile and who are very loud. so we make sure our messaging is loud, that it is not the case. that the border is not open. the second thing we do, though, is we have to understand that these trends are also seasonal. they occur at the beginning of the spring every year. yes, it is a larger group than usual, but that they will also diminish at a certain point. and the thing that we have to do most quickly is get humanitarian assistance, job training, education, feeding assistance, because there's food insecurity throughout these countries. we need to provide options. that's why we restarted the central american miners program, that's why we're expanding it, that's why we're creating new legal pathways, so this number of children and others, families and individuals, will go down because people will have other options. options to stay home and options to come here legally. >> gene robinson has a question for you, ambassador. >> ambassador, you recently spoke with mexican officials. what is it that the administration would like mexico to do? that it's not doing now? >> well, i think the conversations with the mexicans were the conversations among partners. between partners who are working cooperatively to stem a flow of irregular migration that affects both countries and that is a tragedy that we both want to work together to overcome. one of the first things we talked about was we had a meeting with their development officials, who work as our usaid does on root causes in central america. and we talked about how we can partner to do more and to do more quickly. but the second thing we talked about is how we can ensure that we are taking appropriate care of migrants, but also making sure that they understand that they should not come in this manner. mexico's own laws have changed recently, and it's one of the reasons why they can no longer accept as many migrant unaccompanied children or families, because they have to be put in their shelter system, which is not as large. so this is not a question of will. they are cooperating fully with us. this is a question of how do we work together, using all the tools at our disposal, to make sure people who are fleeing persecution are protected, but that people who are coming in irregular fashion do not continue to take this trip. >> ambassador roberta jacobson, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. coming up, a real-world study from the cdc is clearing up questions about the efficacy of the coronavirus vaccines, as well as the federal government prepares to dole out a record number of shots this week. plus, another woman comes forward, accusing new york governor andrew cuomo of unwanted physical contact. 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"the post" reports those with priority status got results within hours or a day compared to a wait of up to a week for other new yorkers. according to five sources, officials working at testing sites in march of 2020 rapidly assembled a system that gave special treatment to people described by staff as quote priority, specials, inner circle, or criticals. in response to the report, a spokesperson for governor cuomo said, quote, there was no vip program offered to those tied to the governor, mika. meanwhile, another woman has come forward accusing governor andrew cuomo of an inappropriate behavior. nbc news correspondent anne thompson has the details. >> reporter: this morning, more trouble for governor andrew cuomo. 55-year-old sherry vill providing pictures she says shows how cuomo manhandled her while touring her flooded home in 2017. vill says the governor kissed her on both cheeks without her consent. >> you could just tell by the way he was approaching me that, you know, the way he grabbed my face and i just -- it was very inappropriate to me. >> reporter: the photos and her statement sent to the attorney general's investigators, who responded to vill's lawyer, gloria allred, during our interview. do you want to take a look at it and see what it says and share it with us? >> if you don't mind taking a moment. they thank me for my letter and the materials i sent. they would like to speak with her. >> reporter: the governor's legal team firing back at vill's claim, releasing their own pictures from that day, illustrating that during tums of crisis, the governor has frequently sought to comfort new yorkers with hugs and kisses. >> did you take it as an offer of comfort? >> if i did, i would not be sitting here right now. >> reporter: vill is at least the ninth woman to accuse the 63-year-old politician of inappropriate behavior or sexual harassment and the third to say the governor gave or attempted to give an unwanted kiss. cuomo has previously apologized and said he's never been inappropriate with anyone. coming up, our next guest tells "usa today" that she was disappointed at not being picked as joe biden's running mate, but she's not running out a presidential run of her own. senator tammy duckworth of illinois joins us. "morning joe" is coming right back. back since you're heading off to school, i got you this brita. dad... i just got a zerowater. but we've always used brita. it's two stage-filter... doesn't compare to zerowater's 5-stage. this meter shows how much stuff, or dissolved solids, gets left behind. our tap water is 220. brita? 110... seriously? but zerowater- let me guess. zero? yup, that's how i know it is the purest-tasting water. i need to find the receipt for that. oh yeah, you do. welcome back to morning show. 51 past the hour. naples, florida, this morning. we've been covering georgia's crackdown at the ballot box and now a number of the state's biggest companies are facing calls for consumer boycotts after governor brian kemp signed the new voting restrictions into law last week. delta airlines faced stiff pushback on social media accused of not having done enough to stop the bill's passage. on friday delta issued a statement that said in part, the law has, quote, improved considerably during the legislative process and noted some elements for praise. the hashtag boycott delta trended over the weekend. coca-cola is also facing a boycott threats after releasing a statement in part, quote, expressing our concerns and advocating for positive change in voting legislation but falling short of taking a stance against the law. and home depot, an insurance firm aflac also georgia based companies have come under criticism after offering muted responses. as the "new york times" notes, as black lives matter protesters filled the streets last summer, many of the country's largest corporations expressed solidarity and pledged support for racial justice. but now with lawmakers around the country advancing restrictive voting rights bills that would have had a disproportionate impact on black voters, corporation america has gone quiet. eugene robinson, laws that were created on the big lie. it is hard to believe we're here. and yeah, corporate america needed to do better. >> yeah, and i frankly expected some of those big corporations to do better because -- >> it wouldn't have been hard. >> no, it wouldn't have been hard. and they ultimately their consumers saw what happened and who know what is going on and know this is all based on the the big lie. so, you know, that law statement from delta that was -- to be charitable missed the mark. it just started from, you know where you started. based on the big lie, you know, it is like the fruit of the poison tree. you get all of these restrictions and, yes, they're not as bad as they were initially proposed, but they're really, really bad. and they're based on a lie. and delta and others should have been able to come out and say that clearly and i think their customers would have appreciated that. i think their customers don't appreciate what they, in fact, did. >> and tom, while this is all two things that could be true at same time, does this impact the republican party? >> it has to. because, and this is something that i brought up in the past, it is another sign of the collapse of confidence in -- within the republican party and anything like ideas or policy or beliefs about anything except the raw exercise keeping and exercising of power. this is every one of these legislative maneuvers in republican-controlled legislatures is another way of saying there is no way we could sell anything to the public. the other way we could stay anywhere near the levers of power is to pass restrictive laws and to disenfranchise and suppress and keep other americans away from voting. and to go back to the georgia example, it is not just the consumers who see this. i mean, as corporate citizens, i have to wonder what it is like for those companies based in georgia to think that people in their work force are walking through their doors saying my company does not care whether this state is going to deprive me of my right to vote as though this is, you know, 1880 or something. but i think what it really says about the republican party is that the republican party has just become an empty shell for the gaining and keeping of power by a rapidly diminishing group of white conservatives who fear being pushed out of the national debate because they have nothing to offer and so this is all they've got left. >> all right, still ahead, setting straight the vaccine conspiracy theorists. plus the warning from the cdc director on the possibility of a fourth wave of coronavirus. "morning joe" is back in a moment. 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see how you can become a smarter investor with a personalized education from td ameritrade. visit tdameritrade.com/learn ♪ look, as i do my part to accelerate the vaccine distribution and vaccinations, i need the american people to do their part as well. mask up, mask up. it is a patriotic duty. it is the only way we ever get back to normal. >> president biden and his top medical advisers urged the nation not to let up on efforts against coronavirus as the cdc warns of a possible fourth wave. >> it is interesting, he had to say in there it is not political. it is not political. >> it is not political. it is science. >> here we are with over half a million people dead and we heard from dr. birx this weekend talking about how after the first 100,000, if they had done a better job, if donald trump had not been so resistant, they would have been able to save so many lives. and here we are, willie, i'm now -- i'm now hearing lunatics. and i call them lunatics that are now of course still pushing back on the mask. but now we're saying if we somehow have something that identifies us as having a vaccine, that we're part of satan or the mark of the devil. it is idiocy, it is beyond us. they're acting recklessly and irresponsibly. they're being stupid. they're following conspiracy theories, a failed game show host and -- or a real tv host and they don't understand, i guess, because maybe they're such morons they can't understand that. if i want to go to a baseball game with my son who has a history of upper respiratory issues, i don't want a bunch of idiots sitting anywhere near us in fenway or in a little league baseball park that haven't taken the vaccine. now if they don't want to take the vaccine and they want to die, that is their right as americans. they don't have to take the vaccine and they could die. or they could get really sick. they could live in ignorance or stupidity. >> or hurt someone else. >> they have that right even though their hurting other people. but please, please, don't tell me that we can't do something so smart people, who actually follow science, who actually want to take care of their children, who actually want to save their neighbor's lives and want to make sure everybody around them is safe, they can't tell us what to do and the government, our sports teams, our organizations, our concert promoters damn well better put together something where you could show your vaccine receipt or having something on a ticket stub that shows it. this anti-science idiocy, let them do that under a rock or in their caves. but the trial to try to reason with these people has long passed. >> yeah, i mean, you're right. good morning, first of all. good to see you. it is been a couple of days. >> very good to see you. >> a lot of this thinking, this anti-government strain of thinking now has seeped into this conversation about vaccines and masks. and we heard it from the cdc director rochelle walensky who dropped the pretense and the formality and said i'm going to drop the script and just talk to you right now and say i have a sense of impending doom was the term she used. this is the head of the cdc. she said please continue to wear your masks. i know it feels like the end is around the corner and actually it is but we're not there yet. please wear your mask. to have to hear the pleas from president biden who talked about politics, this is not about freedom. wearing the mask has always been the path to freedom, not a violation of your freedom. if we all wore the mask early on, we'd be back at school and work and the ball games you're talking about. so, there is this instinctive reaction to government to tell people to do something. for a lot of people they say i'm not going to do it, and what about the health and freedom of the other people who want to stay healthy and get our country past this moment. >> the selfishness is incredible, the stupidity is incredible. they've actually, they've taken a country where we've had people throughout the generations fight for liberty and freedom, freedom of speech, the freedom to go to the church or the synagogue you want to go to or the mosque or not to go at all, the freedom of assembly, all of these freedoms these idiots say i have a right to be stupid as hell. i have a right to believe stupid as hell people on facebook. i have the right to believe in conspiracy theories and make you and your family and everybody around you in danger, put you in danger. okay, you really do. so go ahead, like i said, go ahead, go live in your basement, but it the not going to stop us. and if we didn't have the guy that we had in the white house over the bast four years, that number you're seeing on the the screen, according to people who worked for him and helped run his task force, that number on the screen would have been a lot lower. >> dramatically lower. >> we would have saved more lives most likely than people who died in vietnam. we would have saved more lives more likely than american soldiers who died in combat in world war i. but no, you had to be stupid. you have to believe the stupid guy. you really, i can't help you, nobody could help you, right. if you still believe in god, maybe get on your knees and pray and ask why it is that your thought system, that your belief system that's been so corrupted that you follow qanon, that you follow conspiracy theories, that you believe liars on facebook instead of believing the. jesus said i am the way, the truth and the -- when did that stop mattering to you. when did the truth stop mattering to you so much that you were willing to put other people's lives at risk. greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for his brother. you're doing the opposite. you're going out of your way to kill people. i just want to know why. i don't understand why. >> and i think the added concern here is that in the united states of america, we have access to the greatest scientists and the greatest institutions, johns hopkins, you name it. and we had, for over a year, a president running a pandemic, overseeing a pandemic in our country where he flouted science, where he laughed at science, where he literally made up stuff along the way and brought not just people perhaps who were duped, who were lost, who needed to find a place for their anger, which is another discussion, but educated people within the republican party are still with him and still acting this way. now, when you could actually see the science playing out in realtime, the cause and effect of social distancing, the cause and effect of masking and, of course, compared to trump, the brilliant rollout of this vaccine, which is going faster and faster by the day. just because someone who knows what he's doing is in charge and someone who respected science. >> but republicans are not just fighting at distancing. trump supporters, people who are still in that personality cult, aren't just saying mask, masks are no good. in fact, they spread disease. what? >> come on. >> come on, stay away from household appliances. >> look at what happened this year. >> stay away from the blender. you're not meant for it. you're not smart enough to handle the basic instructions. but it is now vaccines. and they've moved on to vaccines and you have donald trump sending out messages, vaccine it is all because of me. half of americans, half of republicans who supported donald trump don't want to take the vaccine. now he's gone out a couple of times and said, yeah, okay, well you should take the vaccine, i got one. >> no, i didn't. yes, i did. >> he's not showing any leadership. but why would he show leadership. he never has shown leadership. and you have these anti-science people who are now not only bashing the vaccine but are also saying, no, there should been we need to make sure that nobody in america knows who took the vaccine and who didn't take -- wrong. wrong. you know what, you know what, you missed the stop. the train left the station. you're idiocy that you and the last president together helped kill hundreds of thousands of americans, that stop was like -- it left on january 20th and you're just standing there by yourself and look around at the idiots who are around you. who were saying no social distancing, who were saying no masking, who were attacking the vaccine, if you guys want to stand there on that platform and get sick and kill each other, that is up to you. but we've moved on. stay out of leaders' way who want to make sure that we can once again go back to our life. we can once again take our kids to baseball games. we once again can go to concerts. we, once again, could get moving on with our lives by showing that we were not stupid enough to say no to a vaccine. >> it is the republican party -- >> you're such a joke. you're such a joke. all of you are such jokes. get a vaccine. get the vaccine receipt, go to a concert, go to a baseball game, live your life. >> yeah. okay. up next, a stark warning from the cdc director about the impending doom if the u.s. lets its guard down in the fight against covid. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. g "morning " we'll be right back. pain hits fast. so get relief fast. only tylenol rapid release gels have laser-drilled holes. they release medicine fast for fast pain relief. tylenol rapid release gels. i'm morgan, and there's more to me than hiv. more love,... more adventure,... more community. but with my hiv treatment,... there's not more medicines in my pill. i talked to my doctor... and switched to... fewer medicines with dovato. prescription dovato is for some adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. with... just 2 medicines... in 1 pill,... dovato is as effective as a 3-drug regimen... to help you reach and stay undetectable. research shows people who take hiv treatment as prescribed... and get to and stay undetectable... can no longer transmit hiv through sex. don't take 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but not quite yet. and so i'm asking you to just hold on a little longer to get vaccinated when you can so that all of those people that we all love will still be here when this pandemic ends. we are not powerless. we could change this trajectory of the pandemic. but it will take all of us recommitting to following the public health prevention strategies consistently while we work to get the american public vaccinated. i'm calling on our elected officials, our faith-based community, our civic leaders across the nation and i'm calling on every single one of to you sound the alarm to carry these messages into your community and your spheres of influence. we do not have the luxury of inaction for the health of our country, we must work together now to prevent a fourth surge. >> so katy, we've had at same time here the one year anniversary of our country effectively being shut down or normal life being pulled away from us and this miraculous development of vaccines that are widespread and highly effect, which gets into people's minds, everybody's minds. okay, we've turned the corner and what we heard from dr. walensky yesterday was we're not there yet, we're not out of the woods, don't go back to your normal life yet. >> right. and it is really hard message when people have already spent a year and they think, well hold on a second, there was meant to be hope at the end of the tunnel and the weather getting warmer and i want to have that normal life again. we've been told by these experts for last two or three months, we're in a total race right now. the number of people we could get vaccinated against these new variants that have come in from the u.k., south africa and brazil that are more transmissible and more dangerous, i mean, in my household we thought we were almost there. i had my vaccine, on the same day my husband developed symptoms so he went down with covid and my daughter went down with covid and we have that incredible feeling of frustration. we could see the finish line. i don't know if we changed our behavior particularly but i do know that my daughter's school had no cases for months and then suddenly in one week had six cases. so these new variants are out there. and they're right, rochelle walensky is right to say you have to sit tight a little bit longer because if we don't get enough people vaccinated then the new variants from south africa and brazil which mess with the vaccines and they don't work as well on them, they could start spreading. we've seen europe go through this. europe is back in lockdown. europe looks like a ghost town, it is like it was right at the beginning of the lockdown and we're probably not going to get there but we don't want to take that risk. >> i think the biggest problem is young people. and you don't see any restrictions sometimes when you drive around and see, you know, bars and restaurants, they're out. they're out. and that is where it is really spreading. speaking from the white house yesterday, president biden echoed that warning from the cdc director and also urged state and local leaders to reimpose mask mandates. >> i'm reiterating my call for every governor, mayor and local leader to maintain and reinstate the mask mandate. please, this is not politics. the failure to take this virus seriously, precisely what got us to this mess in the first place. because we're in the life and death race for the virus that is spreading quickly, with cases rising again, new variants are spreading and sadly some of the reckless behavior we've seen on television over the past few weeks means that more new cases are to come in the weeks ahead. >> eddie glaude, we're talking about not only a president and very well experienced scientists trying to talk about mask mandates, trying to talk about social distancing, trying to get that vaccine out and we are hearing from the people who ran the pandemic task force for the former president saying how badly it went. and yet, it's as if, when it finally gets to some sections of the american people, especially with republican leaders, that this is over, this is behind them or this never happened or this is all, you know, not really as bad as it should be or they don't believe it. i mean, the messaging over a long period of time has been so convoluted, i fear there is going to be many more lives lost because it was never -- it was never given to the people fair and square and straight. >> yes, mika, i think that might be true. as we approach a number that rivals the death in the civil war. so i think it is really important for us to understand this toxic combination of selfishness and stupidity and greed. there is a rush to open the economy so that we could make money. of course there are some reasons why folk are wanting to do this. but there is a sense in which folk value money more than they value lives and you combine that with the fact that folk read liberty is a synonym for selfishness and people aren't being reasonable. and something to think about very carefully, is that the sense of mutualality, the obligation out of one's immediate circle the sense of care at the heart of the democratic policy seems to have eroded or shredded, whatever image you want to use, that the crisis in our democracy that we've been talking about at a certain level is being evident in this moment not because people are being stupid and some are, but because folks simply don't see their relationship with others. they don't care about others. so even to appeal to patriotism in this moment, mika, seems to fall on deaf ears. and it reveals a deep and -- a deep problem in the country it seems to me. >> coming up, today is day two of the trial of former police officer accused of killing george floyd. we'll tell you what we're learning about the strategy on both sides. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. joe." we'll be right back. at novartis, our goal is to help keep cosentyx accessible and affordable. if you're 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try. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it's the most comfortable, body-sensing, automatically-responding, energy-building, dually-adjustable, dad-powering, wellness-boosting, foot-warming, snore-relieving, temperature-balancing, recovery-assisting, effortlessly life-changing, proven quality night sleep we've ever made. and now, the new queen sleep number 360 c4 smart bed, is only $1,499. plus, 0% interest for 48 months and free premium delivery when you add a base. ends saturday they murdered him. but we still floyd strong. and we still here. so we're going to hold it down for him. you know what i'm saying. and they say trust the system, they want us to trust the system, well this is your chance to show us that we can trust you. >> that was george floyd's brother terrance speaking at a press conference yesterday. as the trial of derek chauvin got underway. joining us from minneapolis is nbc news political reporter shaq brewster. shaquille, what did we learn yesterday in the testimony? >> reporter: well, good morning. we really got a sense of what the next few days and weeks will be like in this trial of derek chauvin, the ex officer accused of killing george floyd. yesterday we heard the opening statements from both the defense and the prosecution laying out their case, previewing their witnesses and showing what their main arguments will be as we continue to watch this trial. for the prosecution, they made very clear that the focus is on that video. the video that really sparked the social justice movement that went viral on facebook after floyd was killed. they adjusted the time saying that he was under the knee of derek chauvin for more than 9 minutes or for 9 minutes and 29 seconds, more than the 8 minutes and 46 seconds that prosecutors originally announced. they said through that video, that is what the jury should focus on as they're making their decision on these three charges that the ex officers is facing, the second-degree and third degree murder and they say it is not just about the 9:29 but it is about the context of the situation, the drugs in floyd's system, the resistance of officers and the crowd beginning to form. you got a sense after months and months of pretrial arguments and previews and orders you got a sense of what both sides are going to lean into as they make their case to that 14-member jury panel. >> nbc's shaquille brewster, thank you very much, live from minneapolis. >> thank you so much. >> it is going to be a really crushing trial to watch. there is going to be -- you get a sense that the defense is going to put out there that george floyd was putting up a fight and was creating a problem but some of the witnesses yesterday talked about police disturbing him. so you really saw the two sides really ginning up what they were going to lay out over the next couple of weeks. eddy -- eddie glaude, your thoughts during these really turbulent times. >> in so many ways the trial bears the was the reckoning the nation is seeing. not only did we see the video footage over and over again when it happened. now the nation will have to relive that and you could imagine the family having to relive it. you could imagine black america having to relive it and those who are concerned about decency having to relive it. but what is interesting is that as the trial bears the weight of the country's reckoning, it also bears the weight of this collision and you could hear it in way the prosecution and the defense presented its case. that he was large and dangerous and on drugs that the neighborhood was a high crime neighborhood that was dangerous. all of the kinds of images and references we've heard before in this moment, in these sort of moments. so we'll see where we are, you know where we are as a country, whether or not the skepticism what has animated black america still obtains. this is part of the american racial theater. here we are once again on stage trying to figure out what the hell will happen and i think the nation's gut is clenched in so many ways. it is really tightened. who knows. >> and coming up, tammy duckworth on what the military needs to do to help address extremism within its ranks. the illinois democrat joins us next on "morning joe." 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"the washington post" eugene robinson is still with us along with msnbc contributor mike barnicle and joining the conversation we have iraq war veteran and purple heart recipient and former assist and secretary of the department of veterans affair democratic senator tammy duckworth of illinois. she's the author of a new memoir out today entitled "every day is a gift" and we'll get to the book in just a moment. but first, senator, we welcome you to the show. it is great to have you here. >> it is good to be on. >> reading your comments in usa today about the capitol riot. where do you think this case of the rioters, the assault on the capitol and those who pushed it should go next, should there be a 9/11 style commission and why aren't we further down the line on accountability? >> well, i think the fbi is definitely putting together the case. this is a pretty complex situation and you're seeing every day new names revealed of people that they've tracked down. so i say let them do their job, let the capitol police and the fbi continue to identify the insurrectionists. i believe there should been an investigation into who fomented this insurrection, beyond just the folks who were there. >> what could you tell us, senator, about the pentagon, pentagon officials, those that worked for donald trump, whether there was a delay in sending the national guard over? we've had testimony from some pentagon officials but not those who made the ultimate decision. >> i would love to hear from them and see what happened there. they claim there was not delay. but general walker, the commander of the d.c. national guard, who, by the way, i served with in my last five, six years of military service, i did a lot of my drills at the d.c. national guard and colonel walker, now major general walker and i served with and so i know him personally. and he's reassured me that he was ready to go. he put his troops on buses, loaded them on buses and they were there ready to go hours before they were allowed to move forward. so this is a man i know, a man of honor and integrity, newly named sergeant of arms for the house and i believe him. >> senator, it is willie geist, good to see you this morning. congratulations on the book. i wab to ask you about a topic you've been outspoken about in the last week and that is violence against asian-americans in this country. there was a horrific attack here in midtown manhattan where a 65-year-old asian-american woman was stomped and told f you and you don't belong here and it is attempted murder when you see it on tape. what do we need to do as a country to stop this, to stem this tide that police departments across the country has v told us is getting worse by the day. what you could do from your seat and what do we need to do as a nation? >> well what we need to do for a nation, is we need to get a real accounts of how many hate crimes there have been committed against asian-americans. the vast majority of them have gone unreported or unclassified as hate crimes. in georgia, the first response was this could be a hate crime, the first response was gee, he was having a bad day when he had a bad day. this is the problem with asian-americans, they don't get reported as hate crimes. two-thirds of all hate crimes against asian-americans are against asian women in particular. 150% rise in those cases that were reported in the last year alone. about 3,000 of them. and so we need to have a real accounting and i've asked merrick garland, i've asked christopher wray fbi director to investigate all of the crimes and see how many of them should be reclassified as hate crimes. i also think we as a nation, we need to stand up and speak up and stop it. we are each other's keepers and you don't want to see -- you need to stand up and oppose and stop people when they try to do this. you saw the case of the other elderly woman who was hit in the middle of a crowd and nobody stepped in to help and she had to fight back herself. >> it happened outside of a building in midtown and the people working inside of the building saw her on the sidewalk this woman on the ground and just closed the door and walked away. senator, we know you'll stay on top of that. gene robinson has a question for you. >> my question is about the way forward for you and your colleagues in the senate, the majority has a lot of work that it wants to get done, is getting zero cooperation from the republican side. what is the way forward? is it through increased use of reconciliation perhaps, which we heard about yesterday, is it through getting rid of the filibuster or is there hope of bringing ten republicans across to the democratic side on any piece of legislation? >> well, we could not get a single republican vote for the american rescue plan that people desperately needed those $1,400 to help them pay bills and keep a roof over their heads and food table. there was money in there for schools for in-person learning and money for small businesses and not a single republican senator voted for that. that brings my hopes down. but on the other hand if we did a talking filibuster, where if you want to filibuster and you need to stand up mr. smith goes to washington style and defend your position, it would eventually end because you would have to stop from exhaustion, but i think that is a good intermediate step. but when it comes to the voting rights act, i think that comes first. the fact of the matter is you shouldn't be filibustering voting rights for all american. i spend 20 years in the army defending people's rights to vote and not to come to the congress and see people opposing the right to vote. >> in your brand-new memoir, you describe the moments before your family fled cambodia before they took over the capitol and you right in part this, in later years when i asked my mom about our family experience in cambodia, she would zrib this time as a difficult one. while my memories are of colorful street scenes and fresh bread, hers are of being mostly confined to our gated home as the fighting closed in on the capitol. it must have been incredibly stressful for her worrying about the safety of her young children in a war zone that was only growing hotter. she also never knew if my dad would return home safely each night from his job across the city but when most americans starting flooding out in early 1975, my dad insisted that we stay. he believed that there was no way that the united states would allow cambodia to fall to the communists and that any day american troops would arrive to fight the rouge. but as the fighting grew ever closer to our home, my dad finally realized that he couldn't keep us there any more. mike barnicle? >> senator, you have an extraordinarily compelling life story. in 2004 your helicopter that you were flying was hit by an rpg. you thus today are two things. you're a double amputee, but you're also one of the few members of the house and senate with combat experience. so in the wake of january 6th, i'd like to ask you what you thought when you saw many, many of the rioters using flagpoles with the american flag attached to attack police officers and what does that combat experience, which lingers and never disappears in your mind, i'm sure, how does that impact you in your everyday job in the united states senate? what do you think of when you think of your duties as a senator? >> well, the title of my book is "every day is a gift" and every day is a gift. a gift given to me by my buddies who carried me out of that dusty field in iraq. and every day i wake up and i say a prayer of thanks to the men who saved me and i try to live up to their sacrifices and you read the book, you'll see i go into detail with that shoot down day was like and that is my north star. on that day, january 6, i was furious. i was so mad. upset that these people call themselves patriots who use the very same flag that i used to wear on my uniform going into combat to breach the capitol and attack our nations capitol and attack our democracy. i knew that i could keep myself safe. so that combat experience helped, to this day, no matter where i am, i know where the exits there and where there is an alternate exit. whatever room i'm in, it lingers in you. so i knew how to take care of myself. but i was mostly mad and feeling very powerless because i wanted to deal with the situation and the only thing i could do was to barricade myself safely in a room so i would not be another person that the capitol police needs to worry about securing. after all of those years of service and after having lived part in cambodia as a child and watching people flee and how much america was respected, to see americans attack our own democracy, was depressing and upsetting but mostly it made me mad. >> senator, i'm remembering my dad today who passed away. today is his birthday. but a couple of days ago, mika father's birthday and she put up an instagram post and talked with her mother a great deal about it and their story is a story of migrants who were fleeing the horrors of hitler. your story is equally inspiring. your family coming to america to flee the horrors of the camir rouge and the genocide that followed that. i know with the brzezinskis, they often time when they were concerned about america's direction and path, it hurt them even more because they knew how special this country was to them as migrants because they saw the other side. same exact thing with you. and this book lays that out beautifully. you could talk about even through our bad times, talk about what america has meant to you, why you've sacrificed so much for this country as an immigrant and a message of other americans who may have been born here, may be missing. because a lot of people born here don't have the love for this country as much as many who immigrated here. >> right. well i'm not an immigrant. i'm a daughter of the american revolution. my family is -- on my dad's side has been here since before we were a country. fought in the revolutionary and french and indon wars. my mother is thai. we were in cambodia because my dad's job with the humanitarian service and we stayed there rendering aid as long as we possibly could before we left. but this book, you're right, this is a really a love letter to my country, to my nation. and i started writing it because my daughter who is now six, abigail, is finally understanding that mommy is different from other mommies. mommy doesn't have legs to her i'm normal. but if you had legs why did you give them up and i served as a soldier and why you would you do that and now you don't have legs and couldn't do a lot of things with me mommy and why is that. so i wanted to write this book for my daughters to explain why everything that i went through, the service in iraq, losing my legs, was worth it. it was worth it because this is a great nation. and i talk about time after time i saw the greatness of america from a child growing up overseas as an american, but then also when we were in trouble in hawaii, and i talk about being so poor i was selling roses out of a bucket on the side of the road, there was food stamps to help me and a safety net and a free school so i could finish high school. all along the way, this country, whenever we were on our knees and we didn't give up, this country was here. here is a helping hand to help you fight your way back. and now i'm a united states senator, this could never happen anywhere else. so this is a love letter to my country but also an explanation to my girls, why it was worth it and why i would do it all over again. >> well senator, first of all, apologize for not -- not hearing the story correctly. but what an incredible -- what an incredible story. what an incredible life you've had. and we just thank you so much for your service. >> and sacrifice. >> in uniform, your sacrifice in uniform but more importantly right now your service to the country with what you do every day. >> is called "every day is a gift." senator dammy duckworth, thank you so much. and up next -- a call to unite amid these difficult times. "morning joe" will be right back. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: just stop. get a hobby. you should meditate. eat crunchy foods. go for a run. go for 10 runs! run a marathon. are you kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette [ crowd cheering ] [ engine revving ] [ race light countdown ] ♪♪ ♪♪ when you save money with allstate you feel like you're winning. safe drivers save 40% saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate. click or call for a quote today. oh yeah, we gotta take off. saving is easy when you're in good hands. you downloaded the td ameritrade mobile app? yeah, actually i'm taking one last look at my dashboard before we board... and you have thinkorswim mobile- -so i can finish analyzing the risk on this position. you two are all set. choose the app that fits your investing style. ♪♪ hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee... yeah i should've just led with that... with at&t business... you can pick the best plan for each employee and only pay for the features they need. what i hope for is collectively as a society, we will have the courage to restrategies who we are and know we are the ceo of our future and the choices that we make, and we would choose more broadly and less selfishly. >> that is the ultimate call to unite. nearly a year ago when americans were stuck in their homes troying to avoid coronavirus, tim shriver came up with a way to keep the country together. a call to unite event, 24-hour livestream of celebrities and leaders across the country too spread goodwill when the americans needed it most. he brought that same spirit to his new book, "the call to unite: voices to hope and awaken." the longtime chair here of special olympics. tim, good morning. it's great to have you with us. we love the message. who did you gather for this book and what is the underlying theme here? >> it's an extraordinary gathering, over 100 authors from all walks of life. the first thing you notice with this book, it crosses all boundaries. it's not a republican or democratic book is, secular faith-based book. listening to senator duckworth describing our country for all of its power to bring people together, this is that book. in hard times, in painful times, you just saw bishop jake say it, there's a sense in which in this country we always try to find hope, not hate, but hope. and this is a book i think of people saying, i'm with you if you're looking for hope, i'm with you if you're looking for healing. we together can find a pathway forward that would allow us to find the best in each other rather than simply dwell on the contempt and antagonism that sometimes dominate our dialogue. >> we've talked about this not only on this show the last year but several years when the country feels like it's coming apart at the seams, how do you begin to stitch back a country that's been at odds with itself? >> i think the book says each one of us has a chance to do this in a small way, cross the divide, take the chance on someone who you have written off and demonized, someone you thought in your mind, you won't tolerate them, you won't talk to them or deal with them, not those people. that mentality in some ways is very un-american. it's very american to disagree and it's very american to challenge contempt and hatred when we see it but it's not very american to be hateful towards other americans. it is something when we've seen it in the past we've tried to change it, not add to it. so i think each of us in the book we will hear people like jewel challenge us in moments of anxiety to use a gratitude practice. you will hear de-vaughn franklin challenge us to act with kind of a divine impulse to act. you will hear chef jose andres, who you have on the screen now, challenge us to an empathy explosion. if you're sitting at home as we head into for many of us the holy week celebrations on the christian calendar and passover celebration and jewish one, these are all celebrations of transformation, in some ways of resurrection. we can wait for our politicians to two the right thing. we can wait for an end to the filibuster or end to divisiveness on capitol hill. i don't think that's what's coming first. what's got to come first is us. >> tim, mike barnicle has got a question for you. mike? >> tim, you know, everything that you just spoke to, you know, it's wonderful and it's warming and it's needed, but there is a virus now in this country and the virus has provoked enormous fear in order americans. there's the fear of the virus. there's the fear of the vaccine among some, there's the fear of the future, for themselves, for their families, and fear actually i think is the ultimate virus that's among us. how in this great, good nation of ours do we combat the ultimate root, i think, of what you're talking about coming together, fear. >> mike, it's funny, you mentioned arthur looks, conservative columnist, professor, writes in the book the opposite of fear is love. if you're feeling fear, you need more love. now, that doesn't sound like a political agenda but guess what, maybe it is. you and i grew up in a time when in our country people believed in accomplishing great tasks when we were confronted by the demons of discrimination and hate in our countries in the '60s and '70s. political figures actually believed in the country enough to try to challenge them. they weren't republican programs. head start is not a democratic program. it's an american program, american initiative. the book invites us to create a national immune system to challenge not just the other person's opinion but to challenge contempt. we need kind of a way to get to the point where, you know, you guys do this on "morning joe" so i give you a huge amount of credit. you try to avoid demonizing and instead try to promote understanding, a deepened listening, you know, dr. rita walker is in the book, mental health expert and she describes what she calls abcs, mike. a, assume you can make a difference. b, be a good listener. c is the hard one, cancel judgment. i think part of ending fear is on our own reaching out across these divisions, having a little bit of a companion that you can trust, friends like oprah or bishop jakes or dr. rita walker, or many others in here, julia roberts and others, who will kind of be our coach. in the same way tammy duckworth wrote that book for her daughter and children's generation, this is a book for us now as we try to build a different version as you point out with less fear. >> the new book is "the call to unite: voices of hope and awakening." tim shriver, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> tim talked about we need to be much more compassionate. we need to cancel judgment. >> absolutely. >> there is, of course, dbt concept called radical acceptance. >> behavioral therapy. >> radical acceptance, dialectal thinking, all of it. it would be great to infuse not only in twitter, willie, but also in our politics. >> for all of us! >> and society. >> good luck with twitter. i may have to write that one out. i hope our culture and politics embrace that. it will be hard. some people have been pushed away from each other now for so many years to put it back together but tim gives us a good start there. >> absolutely. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. . hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. it's tuesday, march 30th. in 90 minutes from now the trial of derek chauvin, the ex-minneapolis police officer charged in the death of george floyd, is set to resume. donald williams, a trained mixed martial artist who tried to intervene when he saw police holding floyd to the ground will continue his testimony this morning. prosecutors are then expected to call more witnesses throughout the day. it comes after a very tense first day with the prosecution introducing new time-stamped surveillance video of floyd's arnd

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