>> the new york ag has got her eye on a marquee trump property for potential michelle seizure. that's tonight on news night good evening. >> i'm abby phillip in new york tonight, donald trump's financial peril is getting very, very real letitia james has taken the first steps on that road to making the former president pay up trump has until monday to come up with 464 million in cash to pay the bond on the fraud case that he just lost. in the event that he doesn't the ag is made illegal filing westchester county just a few miles outside of manhattan to ensure that he'll have to hand over something now, it's our very first clue as to where james plans to go to cobble together the nearly half 1 billion in value from trump's business holdings. this is trump's seven springs estate. it is massive, sprawling lush, beautiful, sits on 230 acres spanning three separate towns. it has a unique history tied to some of america's most storied business families trump bought it for a cool $7.5 million back in 1996 and since then, it's been his family's northern home, not quite mar-a-lago or bedminster, both of them clubs where trump spends quite a lot of time but something more intimate, or at least as intimate as 60 room property can be >> places really special to myself. that's really special in my brother and my father, really the whole family. i mean, this is really our compound and i've spent so much of my life i fear and spent so much time learning the art of the deal here on this property >> and part of that art apparently was lying about the value of the property. trump's said it was worth $261 in 2014. financial statement this won't come as a shock to you, but it's not worth that and appraiser valued at as below $30 the estate also features prominently in a classic trump yarn like that one time that he tried to airbnb land on the seven springs is a acres to the now dead libyan dictator, more codon now, could i was never planning to actually stay in the property. he just wanted to pitch a tent on the property. that was back in 2009 ultimately, qaddafi never stayed there, but that didn't stop trump from telling the tail over and over again. now that aside listen to how trump's kids talk about seven springs. you can hear that for them. there's something different about this property it's 230 acres in bedford, new york. there's no piece of land in westchester government or otherwise. that's even close to that size. >> but that aside, just listened how they talk about it and you can hear that they feel like this property is part of their childhood, part of their growing up experience in new york when we first bought the property in 96, i was about 12:13 years old at the time and it's really my brother and i and my father during the >> summers would always put us to work and we were for literally riding mower around, removing all the fields we are cutting down trees and it was probably the best experience of my life >> i'm joined now by barbara raz. she's a former trump organization executive. she's the author of tower of lies, what my 18 years of working with donald trump reveals about him barbara, you hear erik, they're talking about seven springs it's a special family property the way that he describes it talk to us about that personal association that they have with this property. do you think it weighed in on letitia james choosing this one to start with and doesn't is it something that will weigh on trump's mind if she ends up seizing it >> well, you know, the question when they when trump left new york and left trump tower, was also got him never, ever leave that property. and i get the sensors now that he would never leave this force, justin property, but i was funny listening to don junior talk about it because he was actually raised more on the connecticut property until the divorce happened and that was the big gun that was a big family home at the time. this is the second family out. so i don't think it's that big a deal. it's just a matter of trump losing anything at this point yeah. something that i guess his kids had taken a certain ownership over this one because it was acquired when they were young boys. cnn is also reporting that trump is concerned about the optics of all of this, especially since obviously his whole identity is just tied to him being this wealthy man, the art of the deal. now he's facing a real financial crisis. what is going through his mind you think right at this moment? >> he's thinker. who's to blame for this and how much he should find a scapegoat and get back in impersonally, but publicly have the anything that was done wrong, take it off for him and put on another person and i think it's working on that. he's angry. he was extremely angry. how could this happen to him? >> he's very, very much a victim and in a way, i still think that he believes he'll get out of it. so that's i think where is marvelous >> okay. so there's there's some options here for him outside of just coming up with the cash he could file for bankruptcy. the reporting that we haven't seen that is that he's privately very much opposed to that path it's not like bankruptcy itself is something that has never been a part of trump's story has businesses have filed for bankruptcy in the years past but he tries to downplay that. and the idea of him filing for personal bankruptcy seems to be something you've doesn't want to do. why is that barbara? >> well he can when it comes to the companies, i mean way back when he was bankrupting all the manic city stuff, he was saying, this is variant move. i'm a brilliant businessman. this is what we do. these laws are available to us let's chapter 11, and we use them a chance through that with a personal bankruptcy and also where the personal bankruptcy you tend to lose like really everything is not my going chapter 11, where you reorganize that. that's what chapter 11 is. four, to give a company a chance to step back wave from there lenders and reorganize their company so that they can get back but i'm a member. what i was working on a project in california, longtime ago with our trump and it came to a point where it had to go bankrupt because of some a political things that happen. and he pulled out a project for and lost a good deal mind, but he did not want his name associated with that bankruptcy, so he's he's very skittish about that it's more it looks up more of a personal failure >> yeah, he's very sensitive about i guess seven weirdly enough, separating his personal in his in his business life. interesting psychology of i don't trump, i guess we all are involved in now, barbara raz. thank you very much. yell about said one foot, unfortunately donald junior was a lot more than 12, 15 years old when they bought that property? everything's ally will look into that one. thank you, barbara and joining me now to look at trump's options are cnn's chief domestic correspondent, phil mattingly, also with as josh barrow co-host of this series, serious trouble podcast asked and the author of the very serious newsletter doesn't feel good to see you fill, you have somebody reporting tonight about what's going on down wherever trump is right now, mar-a-lago, right at the moment what barbara was saying about the skittish snus around the bankruptcy is a huge part. if so what are his advisors telling him are his options? what are they waiting, right now? >> the options are limited. i don't think there's any question about his lawyers have said that publicly and filing after filing over the course of the last several days, the bankruptcy issue, particularly on a business side, barbara was making a good point. it should or could be a viable option here that would at least delay this process for pretty significant amount of time. the personal issue is what i've been told from plie several people has been what continues to come up and you can just go back to when trump went through those bankruptcies in the early '90s and public interviews about that, how he made clear, never do it again, painful process learned a lot about who was loyal and who wasn't that matters. the personal element, how this cuts through that is really important in terms of the actual options. look, the irony of all this is trump actually does have a lot of cash on hand for developer. >> interesting repointing exactly how much it might be, right? >> i spent a lot of time going through his financial disclosure as a candidate. last one he was filed in august of last year. it gives ranges on that disclosure and i followed up on some of the ranges that people familiar with his finances, he's roughly around 360, million cash. that's a lot of cash for a developer. the problem is, that's not nearly enough to actually finance the bond. they didn't more than $500 and some of that cash is already tied up as collateral for other loans right now, he needs a ton of money fast, and he doesn't have options right now. >> so as we were just discussing with barbara, there's the business, there's the personal, but the bankruptcy option. it's not a get out of jail free card, but it could certainly delay this process significantly. why would he not look at that as an option? >> well, i mean, it's the judgment is against him and also some of his business entities. and so it could be a good option for some of those business entities dependence hang on. what assets they hold. in terms of a personal bankruptcy, i don't think donald trump is insolvent. and you're supposed to, you're only able to actually be insolvent, right? you have to be insolvent to go bankrupt or i mean, you can you can file bankruptcy and then you can argue in court about whether or not you're in salt all of it but the thing is that trump the asset portfolio that he has. he has that substantial amount of cash that is not enough to get this bond. he has various real estate holdings, many of which have dead against them. some of them are office buildings. the office building market is not good right now. for example, he owns 30% of a trophy office building in san francisco, but that stake maybe worth almost nothing because the office martin said get for cisco so bad, but then the other key thing he has is he has truth, social the parent company of truth social trump media is supposed to go public imminently. there's what's called a spac. it's one of these shell companies that they take on the market that has stock. it doesn't have assets and they merge it with a private company which will be trump media in this case and where the stock in that spac is trading suggests that donald trump's stake in what will be the public trump media company is worth several billion dollars, maybe like $3 billion. >> so could you be waiting for that to shake out? well, are wanting to delay this until it could i think he would like to, but the problem is that that transaction hasn't happened yet and there are various restrictions on what he can do with that that stock, even after they go public, he supposed to wait at least six months before he can either sell it or borrow against it so that those assets are not available to him right now, but those are also very real assets of his that both that is an obstacle to him filing bankruptcy. and also, if i'm letitia james and i'm looking at this and thinking about what assets of his that i can sees. i think the stock and trump media has to be high on that list because it is at least, you know, where the, where it's trading now it's worth more than enough >> letitia james could be looking at that stock. is that something that you hear from your sources and trump's world that's weighing. >> i think everybody is very cognizant of the deal, which is about to go through. people are trying to figure out the lock of the six months they would have to hold it. but i think one of the interesting things and you saw this with the judgments that were filed in westchester county today, they are to have on manhattan, everyone's trying to figure out what's actually on the table here on the reality is, once this company is trading public and the stocks are out there, everything's on the table so long as he holds onto and i think that that's the one big one especially here. let the other is is there anybody outside of trump and trump's kind of business entities that will finance this in and of themselves. and by that, i mean, there are so many people throwing out names about big republican donors, billionaires that he's meeting with. the finance side saying like, are you hearing from anybody? did you hear that this person got a call and are those guys no one? it seems to be able to pin it down right now, but that's what a lot of people are talking about, but it's a real question. where are all there's a lot of wealthy guys in the world who could do this where are they and the fact that they are not raising their hand is pretty telling 500 million is a lot of money and a lot of mountains. you might >> like donald trump, you have to really like donald trump a lot of money in the world. phil mattingly and josh barrow. thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> up next, a news night interview. lev parnas, the former rudy giuliani associate, will join me live on his fiery hearing this week. where he named names and accused republicans of peddling conspiracies and lies about president biden standby. you don't want to ms this interview >> cnn news night with abby phillip. he's brought to you by, so tick to find now, you've so tick two is the treatment you've been looking for. >> smile. you found it, the feeling of findings, psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live. unfit filtered with the one and only so tick to a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. and the chance that clear or almost clear skin, it's like the feeling of findings in your so ready for your close-up, are finding you don't have to hide your skin. just your background once 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is he supposed to protect us >> aqua man is going to taste luck you always are going to help us anymore. i'm going to do this myself >> flexor muscles will man and the lost kingdom now streaming exclusively on macs night, convicted liar, turned >> star witness lev parnas was the centerpiece of a bomb throwing congressional hearing on the biden impeachment inquiry this week, joining me now for his first extended interviews since that feisty hearing is lev parnas himself. mr. parnas was a former associate of really giuliani he was also convicted of campaign finance crimes, wire fraud, and making false statements statements he later spent 20 months in prison and wrote a book called shadow diplomacy sir. thanks so much for staying up late and joining us tonight. i want to start just with the heart of the matter here. >> do >> you believe that there is any legitimacy to the biden impeachment inquiry at all >> thank you for having me absolutely not. what they showed the asu was what this is all about. it's a political play the a sham. it was a kangaroo court and it's just embarrassing to see our country go through that right now. >> anything at all? you heard during that marathon hearing that you thought was worthy of further investigation by congress >> well, there's a lot that needs to be further investigate. the first person that needs to be investigators. >> bill barr bill barr has his fingerprints all over this and i've been saying this since my arrest. we're going back to 2019 i think the world has now seen two, what level of corruption bill barr has held the doj. i think the special prosecutor that bill barr hired needs to be in front of congress also. i think we need to get to the bottom of this what was the cover of why are they hiding the evidence? why what are they trying to hide? because the bottom line is the crimes there were are committed are being committed by these republicans were trying to win an election for donald trump. >> well, let me ask you about some of your involvement in all of this. you were rudy giuliani is fixer in ukraine. a lot of the unproven claims that we hear about almost every day by republicans. and that voters are hearing about if they watch conservative media, they started with you and with giuliani so do you feel responsible for giving republicans this ammunition to amplify these potentially unfounded claims about president biden absolutely >> absolutely. that's why i'm doing what i'm doing. i mean, this is not fun stuff. this is something that i'm putting my own life in jeopardy. i'm putting my family in jeopardy, but i think the most important thing that i could do to make a men's of because of my responsibility in this whole thing is to get the truth out and expose these criminals and cowards for what they are and what they're doing you said that you have put your life in your family's life in jeopardy. have you received specific frets recently because of this your role? what are they >> well, not this is the testimony i haven't had a chance to had you haven't been home yet? but about a month ago, three weeks ago, i had to get the authorities involved because of certain death threats and they found out where i live then got my personal phone number. so the 30s are dealing with that, but i get constantly on social media and nonstop this was something more already the close hit close to home >> i want to play for you a tense moment that happened yesterday at the hearing between you and the republican witness, who's a former hunter biden business partner, tony bobulinski, listened to what he said i think is laughable that the democrats are asking lev parnas to weigh in on my credibility, >> a convicted felon that serve jail time, ivan impeccable record. now, he warned me earlier in this hearing that they're coming for me. >> i looked i said just keep talking. >> i look forward to do that. >> mr. park line, you'll be there soon. >> well, and is that a threat? yes. component. oh, it's just the truth >> so he's obviously he's raising questions about your credibility. so i mean, i have to ask you because when we introduced you, we explained that you had been convicted of lying why should americans believe what you have to say? now, when you were involved with this in the past and you have been proven to be willing to lie in the past well thank you i did lie in the past. i've done a lot of bad things in the past of my life. i'm 52 years old and i made mistakes but since my arrest of the past four years, since i've used that time to reflect and understand and become a different person. i'm a different father. i'm a different husband. i'm a different human being i since i left the cult of trump at the naval to open up my eyes, i realized what really is out there and when we go to truth, again, i went under oath to testify if you lie to congress, so you lie under oath. i mean, that's you're risking five years in prison so either i gave the congress eight hours of my time an opportunity for them, which you have some of the most experienced lawyers up their congressmen, that had their opportunity to rip me apart to showed me as a liar like they say, i'm a liar and to show the whole world that i'm a fraud. and then file criminal charges but they didn't they didn't because they know i'm not a liar. they know i'm telling the truth. they know that because there are a bunch of cowards they i spent eight hours there. they haven't asked me one question. instead of asking me one question that was pertinent to anything that i did in ukraine, what they did do is they try to do a show by having their heavy header you call a matt gaetz another clown that came in towards the very end and tried to impeach me by saying that i'm a criminal. but then let's take a look who their star witness was. a guy that's doing 15 years in prison and testifying are present. they want you to believe a guy that's in prison that's telling you joe biden's corrupt. but they're telling you i'm a criminal because i've served my time i've made amends and i'm not only telling you, but i prove i'm bringing the receipts to prove what i'm saying. can i just ask you though? i mean, one of the things about this is that your awareness is of the ukraine side of this. is it possible to tony bobulinski claims that he knows things about the china deals. is it possible that you simply don't know what he has that might be evidenced in this case >> oh, absolutely. i said from day one, i have no i didn't come there to testify by china. i didn't come testify about hunter and whatever his problems are i came there two once and for all, put an end to the sham impeachment of joe biden that's what i came there to explain that it would nothing happened ukraine because this whole thing didn't start from china, didn't start from all of this car. it started from ukraine. there are older witnesses were from ukraine, were getting tony bobulinski and the 24 hour basically coming in because all their other witnesses are either in jail or hiding or being prosecutor or wanted. >> so with all that being said, do you suspect that there is an active ongoing russian effort to influence the 2024 election oh, absolutely. >> i mean, we haven't seen anything yet. i promise you will mark my words that the next six months we're going to see a lot more because this is the most crucial election for vladimir putin his life has his reputation. i mean, everything that he's done, i mean, this is it. if donald trump doesn't win, ukraine succeed, ukraine wins if donald trump wins, we have a different world that we're going to look at. millions of people are going to suffer >> so did you find in your investigation, i mean you spent a lot of time at the behest of rudy giuliani looking into this stuff when you were looking into whether joe biden was involved in corrupt dealings, profiting off of his family's business dealings. did you find any evidence that the president was directly involved in his son's business dealings in ukraine absolutely not. on the contrary. i mean, i was given all kinds of bank records. i was given all kinds of wire transfers. i was led to all these things. but then when they when the actual transfer to joe biden are the actual trip receipt, it never came it was all, yeah. okay. monday came from a burisma. yes, i saw money come from burisma 200 biden. but there was no ever linked to joe biden and that's that's the whole situation. and every time we would find something and we will come back with a dead end. we will be led to go to a different way to a different path but the interesting part is that every path we went, all the sources of that information eventually came out from russia. russian agents, even ukrainians, that were peddling this information for their own purposes, not because they were against ukraine, because they were doing it because of their own greed for political purposes. >> so >> you know, this realized, yeah, this, so this whistleblower who was recently just arrested by the fbi, alexander smirnov. do you know him? >> no i've never, met him >> according to this indictment, he made all of these claims about joe biden in a came straight from russian intelligence officials. from what you've read about presuming that you have do you see him as a russian intelligence operative? does you bear the hallmarks of someone who has that role >> absolutely. but you have to say another russian operative where he was trained by the kgb and he's a hardcore russian acid i don't think that's what he is from reading the indictment. i have a pretty much good idea of the people involved with them. i can't disclose it now because of certain act of things going on behind the scenes. but as far as him, he was probably a businessman. the way i see it that was greedy and used his position with the fbi to try to maneuver and make money and ganim slough caught up in a situation where the people he was working with eventually got to him because of his position and made him an offer. he couldn't refuse. and i'm sure it was financial to go out and put this information, this false narrative, to the fbi. >> so rudy giuliani, he is still parodying all of this stuff that you say is completely false. and these are the same claims that are being broadcast inside of congress what do you think is going on with mr. giuliani right now? it does. he really believed this stuff is the into deep that he can't back away from it what's going on here? >> that's he definitely doesn't believe it. i mean, he's definitely way to deepen that. there's no way out. >> but the >> interesting part, just think about abbe. rudy could say malarial. i want, but i am here and i'm telling the whole world any day, anytime i'll bring my facts liberty bring us back so i asked for him to be in congress also, the republicans don't want to just think about the republicans are refusing to bring subpoena rudy giuliani to the man that originate this whole demand. that brought this all of this information that supposedly has everything. they won't even bring him to testify and the other thing is you have to understand, just think about this other thing donald trump, he's a coward. he showed her the whole world. he's a coward. >> he could tweet or he could respond to an ad six year-old lady are 16 year-old girl, but he doesn't have the courage to respond to me even after i went to in front of congress and explain everything that he he was doing. the reason for that is because it's a tactic that he's using ron desantis use and a bunch of these republicans are using is to try to deflect and buried this information. and i give it a spotlight. so this way they could change the new cycle and people forget you mentioned that there were some things that you couldn't talk about when we were discussing that charge >> whistleblower, are you cooperating as a witness and any active investigations right now? >> no, i am not. but i like to retain whatever evidence that might be useful if it needs to be useful at the right time so i could be able to be able to help if they need me. >> donald trump right now, we've been discussing his inability to pay nearly half 1 billion in financial penalties that he's facing and his companies are facing is that the exact kind of scenario that a foreign intelligence service would look at. and think about ways to weaponize i mean, he's got to find the money from somewhere i mean, 1 million%. >> i mean, right now, you have not just the russians, but every foreign intelligence service not only that, but you have all kinds of criminals, all kinds of billionaires are greedy. they're thinking away how they're going to get into trump's world because everybody knows it's through money and it's right now, i would be very worried to see if he comes up with this money where it comes from >> left part is thank you very much for all of that. i appreciate you joining us tonight. >> abby. thank you so much for having me. and before i go, just wanted to wish my wife are happy birthday because she puts up with all of this. i love you. i'll be home soon. thank you. i'm happy birthday to your wife as well. thank you very much. >> thank you >> for reaction to all of this. joining me now, a cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, aly, what do you make of that? so >> really interesting, he's an interesting character. have partners. i think it's important to remember who he is and what his past is. as you said, he he was convicted of various federal crimes. he did about 20 months or so in federal prison. >> but >> before that, the reason we the first came to know lev parnas was he was mixed up in what became donald trump's first impeachment relating to ukraine. he was working with donald trump and rudy giuliani. he was sort of rudy giuliani is rudy giuliani, if you think about it that way to try to initiate this investigation of joe biden. he was part lev parnas was part of the effort to remain who've ambassador marie ivanovic, if you remember her. so he was working really hand in hand with trump and rudy. and the most important thing i think that he just said is this. he said absolutely in his knowledge, and we all this is a fact hunter biden was receiving large amounts of money from burisma. but he said he never saw any evidence that any of that money made its way to or was linked to joe biden. and that's why this impeachment inquiry has come up so flat and the insaaf lack of trying, i mean, he was literally looking at was his incentive and look for that when as a former federal prosecutor, you have a lot of experience with these kinds of witnesses, like people who they have checkered past, but they're deep involved in the thing as a as a source of information. how do you find lev parnas to in terms of his credibility in terms of what he might know and how valuable that information is. it's a great question. i would take his information carefully. i would confirm it for a banked on it, but yes, i've relied i've made cases on people have done way worse things than lev parnas, the way i look at him is he's a guy who eventually owned up to what he did and i think since he did his time, i'm not saying he's turned into some sort of st. but i think the things that he said, what he said to you just now have been confirmed and corroborated. so i view him as reliable well, but you still need to confirm what he says, but but i think i think the information you just gave you is relevant and important and confirmable. and notably, as you said what he's claiming is generally lining up with what we know and what republicans are claiming. there's very little to actually back that up on both ends you have there's an asymmetry here in the information that's out there. elie honig, thanks for being with us tonight. and just in as texas remains on edge over this controversial immigration law, hundreds of migrants have been arrested after rushing a razor wire and we'll tell 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number of the texas national guard soldiers that were manning the line along the river. and this is an area that is rather heavily fortified. there is border wall stalls, tall still border wall that has existed for years. and then there's been another line of razor wire and chain link fence that has been added in the last few months fonts by texas national guard. and that's part of that ongoing battle between a texas in the biden administration over immigration policy. but these migrants trying to push their way through that razor wire in that fence, overwhelmed those borger those national guard sailors and then ran up to the border wall us customs and border protection officials say they took all of the migrants into custody. they were in the proud they were being processed. we saw as many of them were loaded onto a fleet of buses and take into a border patrol processing station, but it's important to point out at this point, we really don't have a clear understanding of what triggered this very tense situation, what sparked it? and what led up to it >> yeah, a lot of questions remaining here at londonderry at the border. thank you very much and it had speaker mike johnson for gasoline on that riff between president biden and benjamin next yahoo. here, what he's proposing next, plus a story that i need to share with you tonight about a boy, his mother, and the fragility the of life >> so would you give to nashville hot tenders and three mandarin orange tenders? >> what about you? three classic tenders for big butterfly, ash-red, four khan baby. >> i said, always a competition. you can't handle the shrimps. >> see about that yeah, we will want to leave works all day. so i can keep working to take just want to leave hours of uninterrupted pain-related. who do take it floor and for fast topical pain relief trial iv x. >> did you know there's no t in skechers? >> what you told the ball rolling is always been scheduled g and these sketches please see in these 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under the brightest of lights the stage. he played lead and several school plays, including finding nemo he danced, boy, did he dance jazz, ballet, hip hop? his fancy that he was a helping hand a natural leader that was the trait that's selflessness, that might have saved his family, but cost him his life it shouldn't be that i'm talking about jayden in the past tense but last wednesday morning, in his final moments jayden had been getting ready for school just like any other 11 year-old. his mother who is pregnant was there. so was his five-year-old brother and in an instant a moment that was like dozens of others that had come before it suddenly became a nightmare. the suspect with a long history of domestic abuse, invaded their home, stabbed his mother's several times jaden was the one who jumped to her defense. he was her protector. and just 11 years old because of his courageous act, an act of instinct and act of love he too was attacked he didn't make it because life ended and what was supposed to be the safest places? >> i will be honest. i'm struggling this morning having to do this work and we all do this work imagine these officers showing up at home and seeing of 11 year-old boy bleeding out, who was trying to defend his mother to a1's mom did survive and his little brother watched him breathe his last breaths as is so often the case, the grown-ups here failed, jayden perkins this attack was not unexpected, it was not a surprise and it should not have happened. a decade ago. this suspect had been sentenced to 16 years for domestic abuse, and for a violent home invasion. and just last year, he was released on parole after violating that, he was sent back to prison then just weeks ago, james mother filed for a protective order against the suspect, whom she had a relationship with more than a decade ago but she never got one a judge denied her request saying there was no emergency because he was still behind bars, even though the suspect allegedly sent her threatening messages warning her that he would kill her and her children despite all of this. last week, he was again released on parole and not 24 hours later, he came to their home he was accused of following through on those very threats notably, the illinois prisoner review board says they were not aware of that protective request but jailyn's mom will never see him grow up. she'll never see him go to prom. >> perhaps >> star on broadway, become a dad tonight his bed is empty, his pillow is still there, carrying his sent his book bag. just to see left it jailyn's, community is stunned understandably the outpouring of messages of grief of regret it's palpable somehow the system failed. jayden, the adults who were supposed to protect him and his whole family failed but jaden gave us a lesson before leaving this world to be kind to one another, to smile to stand up for those who are helpless, for those that you love. >> and perhaps >> above all what jayden is telling us. his little 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be voted on tomorrow. this is coming as israel continues its raid on gaza's al-shifa hospital for the fourth day. meanwhile, back here in washington, house speaker mike johnson says that he plans to invite israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu to make a joint address to congress. now this is at a moment when the relationship between that and and president biden is pretty strained for more on this. i want to bring in the author of the genius of israel danns snr. he's also the host of the call me back podcast, the latest episode out today features israel's war cabinet remember ron dermer and good to have you here. if netanyahu were to take speaker johnson up on this invitation wouldn't be a signal that he's sort of poking in the eye if president biden to address congress at a time when they're not really talking all that much. >> no, i don't i don't think we're there yet. i think the bigger step is the next, next week, primary service and yahoo and the war cabinet or dispatching this team to go to washington to try to work with the biden administration, get them comfortable with their plans for how they want to deal with this final stage of going into rafah with the admin, which the administration doesn't want them to do, right? >> but that they have not seen the plans to write protect civilians. >> right? and i was when i interviewed ron dermer, who you mentioned in my podcast. so it's just in his or landed this morning when i was just in israel last night in jerusalem, the prime minister's office. >> he basically made the point. he said, look, we're 80% there. that's also what minister gantz has said. who's really a political opponent of prime minister netanyahu's, but he's serving in this emergency war cabinet, administered gaza, said, we're 80% there. now if a house is burning down and you send the fire department and you ask them to leave after extinguishing 80% of the fire, and hopefully you want to any percent of the way toward eliminating hamas exactly exactly. >> that's the metaphor that's the analogy, yeah, and they say we're 80% there. if we leave now and keep 20% in tact and that 20% loosely defined hi, and it's about these four battalions in rafah. it basically is the hamas leadership. they basically argue hamas will come out of the rubble there'll be able to say they unleashed the worst massacre and the jewish people, since in a single day since the holocaust. and there's still standing, not only be a propaganda victory, but it'd be really be a strategic victory for a number of enemies throughout the region they're going to have to, as you ministration is insisted, show that they can do that without a catastrophe in a place where there's so many civilians. but on that note, what an interesting thing at the un the un now has this resolution to have an immediate ceasefire in gaza. it's in the context of a hostage deal. bring the hostages his back home, and they support an immediate ceasefire. this is actually pretty far from where the united states has been in the un. what do you think is going on here? is this an attempt to bring the world back to the table when it comes to the issue of israel. >> yeah, i'll say, first of all, i think the administration knows there's no way israel at this point will accept a permanent ceasefire like full stop. there's no way i spoke to administer. i spoke to israeli government officials from right to left over the last couple of days. and you speak to the israeli public. you see reflected in the polling from right to left nobody wants a permanent ceasefire until hamas is defeated. >> so >> there's no, no matter what the un does, israel is not going to stop the operation of a permanent ceasefire yet before they go into rafah. however, i think the administration knows that, but they want to appear domestically to be doing everything they can to stop the war fighting and to stop israel, give him on the by does have a political problem here in the united states. the progressive base of their own party is very hostile to what israel is doing in its response in this defensive war. it's fighting. so the administration feels some pressure to at least project that is kind of acting as a check on the netanyahu government, even if they're going to let the government do what it's gonna do. so >> as you've been saying, you have been traveling around israeli, been talking to a lot of people it does feel now like there's a lot of distance between the biden administration and the netanyahu government. is it worse in your mind then how bad it was between netanyahu and obama back in the de, not at all. >> i think there's a key difference to the major problem in breakdown in the nuts hello bomber relationship is there all their disagreements are many of them are aired in public. and so always made israel feel very defensive that any disagreement they had, the administration was lashing out of israel in public. >> but similar netanyahu came to the united states and spoke before congress to embarrass obama he didn't try to embarrass obama. >> the us was about to work out a >> deal with iran that the israeli government felt would pose an existential threat to israel. israel didn't criticize the obama, obama by name. he just made the case against the ratification of this, of this policy with the case with biden, what they say and ron dermer talks about my botkin podcast. he says, look, we've had disagreements since october 7. >> you just >> don't hear about them because most of them are kept behind closed doors. and actually more can get done when allies disagree and they keep those conversations behind closed doors unfortunate because of the domestic political pressure over the last couple of weeks you've seen the biden administration speaking out more publicly and you've seen schumer's well, play this out a little bit. >> yeah, they're they're definitely feeling the pressure and and feeling the need to at least show responsiveness to an important signal. >> exactly. it's a signalling effect >> dancing or >> thank you very much for bringing all of that to us and thank you for watching news night. laura coates live starts right now >> all right. this time it's personal. what dishid james is going to do