cnn tonight with laura coats starts right now. >> thank you. good evening. i'm laura coats. you know that moment when you wonder if it's the end of the beginning or the gunning of the end? well, in the words of al pa chaen owe in a scent of a woman, we are just getting warmed up. four trump indictments and the real story is really about to begin. remember every single thing contained in those indictments are only allegations. the prosecutor actually has to prove all of it to a jury. not the one in the court of public opinion, but in the actual court of law. but the big question is, which court? that's the question that donald trump's former chief of staff mark meadows has been asking and in georgia because he wants to federal court, not fulton county. but it takes more than just wanting something to make it so, right? you have got to prove why it should be the case. under the law any federal employee may remove a criminal case to federal court if they are being prosecuted for things that they did in the course of their official duties. emphasis on the word official, of course. we will talk about what exactly the official duties of a chief of staff really are and do they include getting involved in, say, state election? but wit. there is more. you have to demonstrate that you have some kind of a federal defense. let me tell you, i didn't do it ain't gonna cut it. there has to be some federal law a judge can look at to have that aha, he is right, says it right there kind of moment. now, one law that is being mentioned is, well, the supremacy clause. the one that tells you the federal law trumps the states. in other words, if you have got a federal law that says i can do what i did, a state court shouldn't be hearing a case about it. you stay in your lane. i tell you what. i'll still in mine. just because you are a federal employee, it doesn't mean everything you do is untouchable in state courts. holding the office itself does not hold the prosecutor at bay. no. meadows has to prove what he was doing was actually part of his official duties. that it was authorized by federal law. he has to show that he didn't do more than what was necessary and proper to do his job. now, the allegations in georgia say that he was interfering with the certification of a state's election. will the court believe that that could be a part of one's job duties? did i mention, by the way, that what you do can't be done for personal or criminal reasons. only what is authorized by the law, of course. so, mark meadows, and any other defendant, they feel if they feel they can meet those standards they have every right to try to get their case removed. but it's also more than just procedure at the end of the day. i told you it's about who meadows might want to hear his case because if it goes to federal court, then he gets to select from a much wider jury pool in the northern district of georgia. not just fulton county where biden, by the way, beat trump by almost, what, 243,000 votes. no. it's atlanta, gainesville, noonan, rome. that also means different counties including charity, clayton, dekalb, fulton, gwinnett, newton, rockdale. you know who are the members of congress from those counties? take a look. biden did beat trump in nine, nine out of these ten counties. of course, when it comes to an acquittal, and this might be where someone looking for r rem removal thinks about it, it takes one. i want to bring in john dean. chris whipple who wrote the book on chiefs of staff, the gatekeepers, as well as the fight of his life, inside joe biden's white house. also here tonight is jason will i can, an opinion columnist at "the washington post." glad you are here today. let me begin with you, john dean here, because for many people loo looking at this, the web of people who have been involved now are alleged to have been involved in this activity, i wonder, when you hear about the allegations of one mark meadows and the fact that he was the chief of staff in particular, at what point do people realize it goes beyond the normal, hey, i make a call for you, sir, we will get someone in contact with you, and it might sound and become criminal? >> it sounded to me as soon as i read that he had actually traveled to georgia and personally tried to intervene and inspect an audit that was going on, that's not chief of staff kind of activity. that's trying to swing your weight as chief of staff and doing things that normally a lesser person in the white house would do. so that was the troubling thing for me. it looked way beyond the bounds of a chief of staff's responsibility. >> well, chris, i mean, you wrote the book, literally, on chiefs of staff. i am curious to see your take on this. most people might have a pop culture reference of what a chevy of staff is supposed to be. west wing wing may come to mind. but they may have some notion of chief of that staff from a chair carized notion or know about the limitations involved. when you look at the role of a chief of staff, first of all, tell everyone what it is supposed to include and at what point does your job description become confined to this small sphere and cannot touch the campaign or the election world? >> well, the white house chief of staff is many things much he is the president's gatekeeper, confidant, so-called javelin catcher. he is the person who executes the president's agenda and, of course, most important of all, he is the person you count on to tell the president hard truths. that's an area where, sadly, mark meadows utterly failed to carry out his duty as white house chief of staff. let me say as a kind of overarching point, there used to be stiff competition for the title of worst white house chief of staff in history. eisenhower's sherman adams, involved in a paola scandal. nixon's served 18 months for watergate crimes. georgia w bush's john sununu was run out of town after using government transportation for personal purposes. their misdeeds pale in comparison to what mark meadows is charged with. i would never minimize watergate, especially with john dean on a panel. but think about it. >> smart man. >> hr holder man went to prison for covering up a botched attempt to bug the opposition. mark meadows is accused of orchestrating a mafia-style shakedown of a state official for non-existent votes and, by the way, enabling the overthrow of american democracy. so he owns the title of worst chief of staff lock, stock, and barrel in my view. >> i want to bring in jason to the conversation as well because, jason, you're an opinion columnist set aside the list that chris is talking about who the worst chief of staff may have been. i don't think anyone wants that title. you think he might be successful in moving his face to federal court. why? >> i do think he might be successful. i new it's telling he is not charged in jack smith's federal indictment with breaking federal law. in fact, in jack smith's federal indictment, he is described as urging president trump to stop the rioting on january 6th. he is described as telling president trump that the recount, the signature verification in georgia, is going in an exemplary fashion. so the way he portrayed is a lot more mixed than he is in fani willis' indictment. i think that tells us something about whether he was acting within the scope of his duties. if he clearly wasn't, you think jack smith might have been more interested in charging him breaking federal law. as you mention, this test is a complicated test. it doesn't -- for his case to be removed to federal court it doesn't need to be shown that he is immune, that he is totally in the right. it needs to be shown that he has a colorable defense. and i think that's possible. >> colorable meaning straight faced there is support, even if you prove it's true. it will be a evidentiary hearing. there are a lot of ifs in terms of what needs to happen to get there and the court will know on monday. john dean, there is a lot of ifs in terms of if this is the case. this comes down to john dean, this notion of did you, were you acting under a colorable claim of your official duties. the color of office. the purview -- the elections are the purview of the states, of course. one might strache their head and say what business would a chief of staff have in trying to talk about the certification of a state's election. what do you say? >> laura, it's going to be very difficult for mark meadows to get this information in evidence. it's inconceivable they are going to put him on the stand and subject him to cross-examination at this early stage, yet he has to get this information in front of the judge. what they did in their motion was cite from, in a selective way, from the indictment and sort of spin it the way they wanted it to appear. and there is an argument, if you take their read. i think when they get to court on the evidentiary hearing on this, it's not going to look as close or as fuzzy as it does right now, and i know that jack smith was well aware of the removal problem. there is also the possibility that this could stay part of it in state court and part of it in federal court. there is -- that exception is available, and could well exist. so the big loss to me in going to federal court is no cameras. and i think the american public needs to see all of this. >> certainly we were watching what has unfolded in the past, january 6th, the watergate, impeachment hearings. there is, obviously, a huge public interest in these things. gentlemen, thank you so much. i'd love to have you back on again. >> sure. now, also donald trump and 18 co-defendants were charged as you know in georgia's 2020 election subversion case. they all surrendered today. some days ago. some a long time ago. one of them is still in jail tonight. i'll tell you who and why next. my renaissance was s daring to dream. 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(♪) how white do you think your teeth really are? let's try the tissue test. ooof, still yellow. whitening toothpaste can only do so much. there's toothpaste white, and there's crest 3d whitestrips white. so much whiter! crest. feeling sluggish or weighed down? could be a sign you're not getting enough daily fiber. metamucil capsules can help. psyllium fiber gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. promoting digestive health, for a better you. metamucil capsules an easy way to get more daily fiber. i'm patriotic kenny. and, hi, i'm amanda on tiktok. my scooter broke down. i went into a depression. how do you feel about that? pretty sad. and i posted it to show that kenny's not always happy. within 24 hours people had donated over $5,000. no, you're kidding. we set up the patriotic kenny foundation to give mobility scooters to veterans. it has changed my life tremendously. none of this would've happened without tiktok. everyone, including the former president of the united states, you see him in the top left there, donald trump, they have now surrendered in fulton county, but only one of the people here, harrison floyd, is actually still in jail. he is the leader of the black voices for trump accused of violating georgia's r.i.c.o. statute, conspiring to solicit false statement. unlike his co-defendants, he was unable to negotiate a bond agreement before his surrender. and today a judge was refusing to even set his bond. >> you find that based on the open charge against you, there are grounds for bond to be denied at this point. so i'm going to go ahead and find that you are a risk to commit additional felonies and a potential risk to flee the jurisdiction. i am going to deny bond, but a full consideration of bond will be addressed by judge mcafee. >> that's the judge who will be overseeing a majority of this so far. i want to bring in jessica washington and also former fulton county prosecutor clint rucker. so happy to see both of you here tonight. first of all, jessica, look, you have got a piece out in the root talking about this very issue. how floyd is one of two black defendants in this case. he is still in jail. i might note this has been talked with as a notorious jail, fulton county. what is happening? ininsight why he is still there and that judge made that decision? >> yeah, there is two things happening. the first thing is that he did not have counsel going into it from everything we understand, particularly from the hearing today. and so unlike the other defendants who negotiated a bond agreement before going in, he didn't do that. so he was immediately detained once he came to the jail. and the other defendants got to come in and then leave and post their bond. so that happened initially. then at this hearing today we also saw his secondary charge or the charge that actually came before this in may. that was brought up as well. he was charged for assaulting an fbi officer. and so that was the reason that the judge found that he should be denied bail today. there is kind of two things happening. >> you are nodding along there, clint. explain to the audience what were the circumstances as to where why there was this assault on an officer, serving a subpoena in connection another matter, and tell me what that was about. >> right. good evening, laura. thank you for having me. i really appreciate it. jessica is absolutely right. i will tell you the most significant reason why mr. harrison is still in custody is he has, himself as his lawyer. there could have been pretrial discussions with respect to that previous case, which we know is the outstanding warrant from maryland based on the assault of the federal agent who was attempting to serve a subpoena, and he could have also will negotiated pretrial release by way of an agreed upon bond in this case so he could have had of the same process, in effect, as the other defendants that we saw. what we know about the previous case is that mr. harrison is claiming that he did not know the identity of the individuals who were approaching him to execute the service of the subpoena, but, of course, that will be a question for a different day, for a different court. but certainly the judge in this case found that the two cases combined in her opinion showed a propensity for mr. harrison to commit crimes. so she was able to deny bond based on criteria here in georgia. >> when you think about that, she seemed -- referencing another judge. she didn't want to be the decisionmaker on this case. tell me why. >> right. well, in here in the fulton county judicial circuit there are, as in most judicial circuits, there is court rules that kind of govern what judges are able to do and not do. in this case, mr. harrison, because he was already indicted by a fulton county jury, lawyer, as you know, he was not entitled to what is commonly referred to as a first appearance hearing or a commitment hearing wherein a magistrate will look at his charges and inform him and will set bond. in this case, because the case is already indicted, it is technically afind to judge scott mcafee. he will make all decisions with respect to his case. and so as the judge in this case today indicated on the record, judge mcafee will consider bond for him at the arraignment hearing. >> important to not. thank you. and floyd is accused of playing a role in arranging a meeting between a fellow co-defendant and also fulton county election worker ruby freeman. she allegedly pressured and threatened freeman that's no small offense considering we know what they are said to have endoord about the pressure campaign against them. what more can you tell us, jessica? >> yeah. so, you know, the specifics of this case kind of how they pressure -- i mean, particularly we can see this is something that was really a hardship for ruby freeman. so it's not to say that this -- the fact that he is being held -- and we are talking about kind of a two-tiered justice system, one is held, everyone else has gotten off, it's not to say what happened there isn't important. but i think that what happened was really -- was awful for ruby freeman from everything we know from her testimony. we will hear more about it as this case goes to trial. >> there is something telling in the optics of the appearance of one person remaining in jail in fulton county and another, the president, former president, within 20 minutes able to leave with that prenegotiated notion. by the way, talking about two-tiered justice system, all the attention is on fulton county and what it looks like and this jail, i hope people are paying attention to the other jurisdictions across this country where we could have the same conversation, a tiwo tiere justice system and un-sanitary conditions that those who have a presumption of innocence continue to face today. there are four criminal indictments. you got a mugshot and donald trump as the frontrunner still for the republican rnc nomination. next, what did president joe biden have to say about all of this? 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no, no. just give me a second... amateurs. ohhh! sorry everybody. directv sports central gives you access to every game... ...so you never have to compromise on gameday. ...was that necessary? i was just illustrating a point. oh. get in the redzone with sports pack. call 1-800-directv that's why comcast business de is launching theal. mobile made free event. with our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. it's our best internet. powered by the next generation 10g network and with 99.9% reliability. plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. it's the mobile made free event-happening now. get started for just $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. comcast business, powering possibilities. the gop frontrunner donald trump so far is likely to be bouncing between campaign events and courtroom appearances for the rest of this race. on the heels of his arrest, the former president was actually on news max where he was asked whether he saw a possible vice president on the republican stage this week. >> as far as the stage last night, i thought vivek did very well. actually, vivek, like cake. i thought he was very good. i especially liked where he said i was the greatest president in his lifetime and long beyond. that's pretty good. you said are you sure he is running against me? >> that's funny that he thinks -- i lake the part when i was complimented. is he running against me? joining me to former advisor to george w. bush and john mccain, mark mckennaen and van jones, also a former obama administration official. i saw you tip your hat. i love it. you were the most joel embiidly jaly of the berm right now. you heard ramaswamy, the lavish praise for trump. his hand practically flew off the hinges when he asked whether he would pardon him if convicted. in a place where everyone's always wondering, this distant from the frontrunner and everyone is vying to be the vp, they said, except mike pence, what is his strategy? is he looking for that or a cabinet position or is he trying to be the president? >> well, anything and all the above. one thing about president trump that vivek i am sure shares is that he knows that running for president is the brightest spotlight in the world. he never intended to be president. we know that. he was an accidental president. he ran because it was the biggest stage in the world. vivek ramaswamy, i wrote about this in vanity fair, he had -- it was no surprise that he exceeded expectations because nobody knew him. he has supreme confidence. he is not bound by anything because he has never been in politics. we now know he has almost never voted before. he can say anything. he is like the guy running for student council who will say we can have free beer. he can be a fox commentator, a trump cabinet, it's all up side for him. >> when i ran for student council, i did a "goonies" theme. it wasn't beer. i hear what you are saying. to that point, i mean it's something to be a kind of outsider when you don't have to run your record, you have other governors on the stage who really -- and former u.n. ambassadors, to name a few, who you have a record you can point to, pick away if you need to. and you have president biden, of course, who wihen he was on tha stage in the center vying for the dnc nomination everyone was looking at his senate record, as the vice president, also what his president barack obama was doing as well. he has commented on trump's arrest. he did so today. >> have you seen donald trump's mugshot yet? nor' mr. president -- >> i did sea icy it on television. >> what did you think? >> well, obviously, tongue-in-cheek there. van, what's your reaction? you're smiling. >> look, that's biden. he knows better than to wade into those waters too much. if he said more than that, they would say, we told you that biden would sick the doj on trump. he played this very, very well. as far as ramaswamy, this guy has the worst ideas in american politics, if he has any ideas at all. he doesn't want to help israel, doesn't want to defend taiwan, wants to give russia a clean shot at ukraine. he is the worst. he has a big mouth and he was able to kind of bully and body everybody on stage and become the center of attention. that lets you know we are in a different political age. this guy has never run anything except a company and his mouth. never one a committee, birl barely voted, nerun a city or state. a tiktok approach to politics. just get likes and shares and you are winning. if for me that's i think a sad commentary. marjorie taylor greene the same way. never run a committee. never passed a bill. now she is in the same conversation as presidents of countries. there is something wrong when we have problems this serious and people this unserious can get this much attention. >> we are in a kind of attention economy. sometimes the point is -- the point is just attention, which is not the most novel concept over the history of the human race, but certainly in politics the amount of credibility that is now afforded is something entirely different to van's point. you know, trump's campaign is now telling cnn that he is going to try to capitalize on all this media coverage of all of the trials and tribulations of trump. it could backfire. it could create trump fatigue. on the other hand, you know the media has been criticized as in the past having created donald trump as the dilt or having catapulted into a different stratosphere. how do you see it? >> well, will listen, if you thought trump this attention before, wait until the trials happen. it will be like o.j. on the freeway. the cameras will never leave. sounds like there is a possibility there will be cameras in the courtroom. and this is exactly what trump wants. he wants the attention. he wants to make the trial his political strategy. that's the only strategy that he's got is that somehow he beats the rap on the legal front and beats the rap on the political front. >> democrats, van, how do they capitalize or seize the day and reclaim either the attention or just use it in a way that's meaningful for re-election which is what democrats want? >> we are in new territory. this is -- the campaign and the trial are the same thing. i mean, if think about it from a donald trump point of view, what do you want with the campaign? you want to be able to raise a ton of money. he is raising a ton of money. you want to push everybody else out of the media frame. he has pushed everybody out. vivek just saying crazy stuff to get any attention at all. you also want to get a ton of media attention, which ishe is getting. there is something happening here that -- this is a campaign, folks. what you're seeing right now is the campaign. and for the next year, what you are seeing is the campaign. and so democrats are going to have to go back to the drawing board and wipe it clean and think what can we do to communicate about the fact that joe biden is presiding over one of the most impressive economic comebacks in american history, know that plane is pointed up, he is creating jobs, he is doing stuff on climate, all of this great stuff. you know, diabetes patients are paying way less money. amazing stuff happened. we have pain but also some hope. we can't break through because this guy is reveling in indictments. he is going to have billboards with his mugshot. it's a different game. we will have to play it very differently. >> we will see what happens. we already know that marjorie taylor greene is talking about people creating their own maga mugshots to show support of the former president of the united states. there is a lot there. you have to wonder how the world is viewing the country that's known for a republic, if you can keep it. gentlemen, thank you so much. nice to see you both. >> thank you. well, the former usc star reggie bush wants his heisman trophy back and he is suing the ncaa to actually get it. his attorney is ben crump and he will be here next. 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>> well, laura coats, good to be with you. my co-counsel attorney levi mccutcheon and i filed this defamation lawsuit because after the supreme court ruling that the ncaa could not continue this plantation mentality where they had college student-athletes as servants, that he thought, well, i would get my records restored, i will be able to get my heisman trophy back. but the ncaa have doubled down, laura coats, and said that he would never be able to get his records restored because he participated in a pay-for-play arrangement, which was not true at all. and that's why we filed a defamation lawsuit, and that's why we believe, yet again, the ncaa will lose in a court of law as they continue to lose in the court of public opinion. >> you know, when you think about it, and just try to unpack it all, you know -- i am sure -- i hope people realize, it never struck me as about the actual trophy for reggie bush, that it was not about the accolade itself. it wasn't about the numbers or the record that he had at usc. it was more than that. and you mention this idea of the ncaa in particular and how athletes had been -- many felt exploited over time, their name, their likeness benefiting a university set bug never being able to actually monetize it as many believe that they should. how do you plan to prove though that the ncaa has defamed him. this is a recent statement. it goes back to what happened in the original investigation you call very sloppy and flawed. >> well, it's not me calling it that, laura coats. it's the district court in california who said that the ncaa investigator report was false in several material ways. they decided that. reggie bush was one of the most electrifying and celebrated football players in college history. i mean, he is a very good young man. and he wants his name to be cleared. he wants to be exonerated from these allegations that have no evidence to support them. he wants his heisman trophy back, laura, and most people in america agree with reggie bush. they think it is well deserved, well earned, and it's past time for reggie bush to get his heisman trophy back. and when you think about how they got thousand dollars stipends and the ncaa made billions of dollars on tv revenue for these student-athletes going out to perform, it is not fair. they are on the wrong side of fairness and the wrong side of history. >> ben crump, in my experience, if they are on your side, they are on the wrong side of the law as well. we will have to follow this closely. so glad that you came by. i am glad you are illuminating this issue. nice to see you. >> thank you so much, laura coats. up next, everyone, a celebration tomorrow marking the 60th anniversary of the historic march on washington, one of the pivotal moments of the civil rightsts movement. chevy silverado has what it tatakes to do it all. with up to 13 camera views. and the z71 off-road package. ♪ you ok? 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(vo) subaru is the national park foundation's largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. . they are saying california has the highest rate of homelessness in the country. and often living among the thousands of unsheltered people are their beloved pets. now, this week's c nn hero has made it his mission to offer judgment-free veterinary care at no cost. meet dr. quan stewart. >> i have seen people give up their lives for their pet and people who have three dogs for their name and after i'm done with the treatment, they will try and give me that $3. >> this is your partner, obviously. >> he is my best friend. >> they see me with my stethoscope and my bag. >> oh, yeah, you look good. >> this old dog was day away from dying. >> and they share stories about their dog. >> he feels good and i know he loves me. >> i contribute 8% of the cases i see out of a small bag. >> that's really cool. >> it's antibiotics, anteinflammatories, flea and tick prevention. it's all there. no cost to them. it's free. i'm building a network of trusted volunteers, technicians, but hospitals and clinics we can go to and call on. it doesn't matter what your situation is or your background or past is. i see a pet in need and i see a person who cares for them dearly who just needs some help. >> wow. for the full story, go to c nshgs nshgs cnnheroes.com. thank you for watching. our coverage continues. tonight on 360, the week of defendants and mug shots may be over, but the cases and fallout have only begun, including new developments today. also tonight the 6, 3200-pound strawberry hair defendants made a place in the history of mug shots.