>> not just last night, but what will happen today in georgia. veh let's start with five things to know. just hours from now donald trump is expected to surrender at the fulton county jail in georgia, this will be the fourth time that he has turned himself in for arrests in a criminal case in just five months. this time he faces charges for efforts to overturn joe biden's victory in georgia. >> trump's gop rivals addressed his legal battle last night at the first gop primary debate, six of the eight candidates raised their hand when asked if they would still support trump as nominee if convicted. this morning vivek ramaswamy finds himself in the spotlight. he was center stage last night and sparred with a lot of the candidates. some contentious exchangeses on some of the issues including the war in ukraine. >> nikki haley challenging her rivals on abortion rights, crashing with former vice president mike pence arguing a federal ban is not politically in the cards. >> and new questions about wagner chief yevgeny prigozhin presumed dead in a plane crash just two months after he led a rebellion against vladimir putin. new eyewitnesses sharing accounts about what they saw and heard during that crash. "cnn this morning" starts early right now. so we'll get to the debate in a moment, but there was so much energy on that stage and trump wasn't even there. >> a lot of energy and they didn't really get to trump until maybe the midway point. >> an hour in. 9:58. i was counting. >> all right. in we'll get to all the highlights from the debate, the news made. we have some of the candidates on the program this morning. but we begin with this, just hours from now, donald trump will be arrested for the fourth time after being a no-show at last night's republican presidential debate. take a look. before the sun comes up, these are live pictures of the fulton county jail where the former president will surrender on felony charges for trying to overturn the election loss in georgia. at least half of the co-defendants have already turned themselves in including rudy giuliani. >> and trump's absence loomed large at the debate. eight of his rivals battled for the spotlight without the front-runner on the stage. moderators referred to trump as the elephant not in the room.st. moderators referred to trump as the elephant not in the room. one of the most contentious moments came when the candidates were asked if they would support trump as nominee even if convicted. >> and a lot to get to. we have team coverage. correspondents for the debate and also full continue county. let's start with jessica. >> reporter: good morning guys. yes, of course former president trump did loom large over that debate stage last night, but importantly they were able to talk about some policies. they didn't even get to trump really until halfway through. and those eight candidates on the debate stage really hoping that it was their moment to break through. >> the race for the white house takes flight. >> reporter: eight republican presidential hopefuls taking the national stage in milwaukee in their first primary debate. in the absence of former president trump, the party frontrunner, the fight for air time was on. >> we need to send joe biden back to his basement. >> the truth is that biden didn't do this to us. >> i'm the best prepared, the most tested, the most qualified and proven conservative in this race. >> do you want a super pac puppet or a patriot who speaks the truth? >> reporter: with the debate coming on the eve of trump's fourth arrest, the candidates address the ongoing indictments and possible convictions. >> would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. >> whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of president of the united states. >> reporter: mike pence did not hesitate to attack other party ri rivals. nikki haley drawing from the same playbook. >> you have ron desantis, you've got tim scott, you've got mike pence, they all voted to raise the debt. and donald trump added $8 trillion to our debt. and our kids are never going to forgive us for this. and we have to face the fact that trump is the most disliked politician in america. we can't win a general election that way. >> reporter: but most flurries of attacks involved first time candidate vivek ramaswamy, with the tech entrepreneur brawling with pence, haley, and chris christie over experience, foreign policy, trump, ukraine, china and more. >> now is not the time for on-the-job training. we don't need to bring in a rookie, we don't need to bring in people without experience. >> the last person in one of these debates who stood in the middle of the stage and said what is a skinny guy with an odd last name doing up here was barack obama and i'm afraid we're dealing with the same type of amateur standing on the stage tonight. >> give me a hug just like you did obama. >> the problem is vivek doesn't understand that he wants to hand ukraine to russia, he wants to let china eat taiwan, he wants to stop funding israel. you didn't do that to friends. you will make america less and you have no foreign policy experience and it shows. >> reporter: on the issue of abortion rights, pence and haley clashed over the best way forward. >> let's be honest with the american people and say it will take 60 is tha60 senate votes a majority of the house. so in order to do that, let's find consensus. >> you're my friend, but consensus is the opposite of leadership. when the supreme court returned this question to the american people, they didn't just send it to the states only. it is not a states only issue. it is a moral issue. >> reporter: now, the team for florida governor ron desantis really set the stage before last night's debate saying that they believed all these attacks would be coming at him, that he'd be taking the majority of the heat. and as you saw in that story there, it really was vivek ramaswamy who was getting a lot of those attacks. not the florida governor who consistently remains in second place across polling nationally and most early states as well. look today for these candidates to really try to maximize air time and get as much bounce from this as possible before the former president really sucks up all the oxygen by turning himself in in the fourth indictment later today. >> thanks so much. >> and let's turn to that now. as we mentioned, a few hours from now we're expecting former president donald trump to surrender at the fulton county jail in georgia. sources familiar with the details say he plans to turn himself in tonight on the charges related to the efforts to overturn the election in the state. and nick valencia is live outside the fulton county jail. walk us through what we are expecting. >> reporter: good morning. it cannot be overstated enough, what will happen here later today is unprecedented with the former president finding himself in criminal peril when he walks through those doors. and he will be doing so for the first time as a guest and criminal defendant in this sprawling indictment. historic moment set for today. former president trump will surrender to authorities at the fulton county jail. he will post a $200,000 bond, be processed and possibly have his mug shot taken. >> this indictment is a travesty. >> reporter: former new york city mayor rudy giuliani not mincing words after his surrender. >> if this can happen to me, who is probably the most prolific prosecutor maybe in american history, and the most effective mayor for sure, it can happen to you. >> reporter: the former federal prosecutor even taking a shot at the fulton county district attorney. >> fani willis will go down in american history as having conducted one of the worst attack on the american constitution ever when this case is dismissed. >> reporter: giuliani was book order 13 charges and bond was set for $150,000. trump posting on truth social shortly after he surrendered, greatest mayor in the history of new york city was just arrested in atlanta georgia because he fought for election integrity. the election was rigged and stolen. how sad for our country, maga. along with giuliani, two more of trump's key election lawyers have also turned themselves in. sydney powell -- >> president trump won lie a land slide and we'll prove it. >> reporter: -- and jenna ellis. >> we want to make sure to protect election integrity. >> reporter: both face charges related to the georgia presidential election including violating georgia's anti-racketeering law. so far nine of trump's co-defendants have turned themselves in. and for two of them, former white house chief staff mark meadows and ex-justice department official jeffrey clark, their efforts to avoid arrest or surrender have come to an end. u.s. district court judge steve jones rejecting both emergency filings in two separate rulings to move their cases to federal court. meadows argued that he should be allowed to avoid processing in fulton county before his scheduled hearing monday. the judge writing in his decision, the clear statutory language for removing a criminal prosecution does not support an injection or temporary stay prohibiting district attorney willis' enforcement or execution of the arrest warrant depends m -- against meadows. clark sought an emergency hold for anyone not turning themselves in before the friday deadline. the process is expected to be brief for trump and well shorter for most who turn themselves in here to this skjail. the sheriff is having to balance his pledge to treat all defendants the same while also keeping order in his jail on this historic day. >> nick valencia there for us, thank you. so on the debate stage full of experienced politicians, it was the new guy who took most of the heat. vivek ramaswamy. that is ahead. plus the mercenary chief who led a march against vladimir putin now presumed dead in a mysteriousiss tear yus plane cr. start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommendeded vitamin and supplement brand. you can save money by spending less of it. makes sense! oh, i see what you dithere! - 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(farmers mnemonic) i've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like chatgpt standing up here. >> under your watch, you will make america less. you have no foreign policy and it shows. it shows. >> vivek recently said a president can't do everything. i got news for you, vivek, i've been in the hallway, i've been in the west wing, a president of the united states has to confront every crisis facing america. >> vivek ramaswamy, if the name is new to you, if it was before last night, it is not new now. >> you know it now. >> taking hits from all sides. figuratively and literally in milwaukee. surprise focal point at times on a stage full of experienced politicians. let's talk about it with john avlon, jessica washington, and mora gillespie. thank you so much for being here. i want to play something that many think was the moment of the night. this is vivek ramaswamy versus nikki haley. >> look at what putin did today. he killed prigozhin. when i was at the u.n., the russian ambassador suddenly died. this guy is a murderer. and you are choosing a murderer over an american country. >> don't we have more on that? all right. my point was when they go back and forth and she says you are inexperienced in foreign policy and it shows. >> that i think was the big moment, the best line of the night. i think nikki haley had the best debate in terms of the expectations game. that is often how debates are judged. she had been having trouble differentiating herself. she was strong on foreign policy and she went hard on vivek on experience. >> and she has it. >> she has it, u.n. base, former south carolina governor, and someone not tiptoeing around vladimir putin as donald trump did. so a strong moment for nikki haley. >> so he shared center stage with governor desantis but we heard more from him, he was i guess the exclamation point at center stage. how do you think he did? >> i thought he was a character of a person truly. he jumped in, he cut off people while they were talking. he was factually incorrect on several things. he really did model himself after trump. he is going for v.p., it was very clear. and the cheers that he got was mostly because he said that he was the greatest president of our time. and so i think pointing out some of the issue that he is had or some of the falsities is important.that he is had or some of the falsities is important. he just was a characters of a person. >> what happened to chris christie last night? >> that is a good question. i think that it is difficult for him in this race because people see him a bit as a flip-flopper with donald trump, with supporting him and now coming out against him so strongly. but what christie did, saying that we have to take on trump. he was one of the few to go after trump and january 6 including mike pence obviously. but you did see christie say i'm not going to support trump, go after trump in a way that other candidates seem afraid do. >> counter point on that, i thought chris christie had a good debate. i think his personality showed. i think that he is a -- i think that his kunlglism showed. and so is he sending a message that the base wants to hear in no. does he have the courage of his convictions, does that resonate authentically? yes. for what it is worth, two former u.s. attorneys on the stage are the ones that had the courage to say donald trump being indicted so many times is a nonstarter. he is not trying to give people what they want, he is not pandering to the base. but i thought that he was strong and engaging and had a good debate as a result. >> what about ron desantis? he came in as the heist polling person on the stage still 30%, 40% behind the frontrunner. did he do anything to i guess change the descent of his polling numbers? >> no, i think that he skated by. i think he got applause when he talked about covid and the things that he did in florida, that is where he did shine. otherwise he was pretty, you know, nonessential i would say out there on the stage. but he really lucked out when vivek plagiarized barack obama, by incorrectly talking about the american revolution was won because of our constitution, which by the way came 13 years later, and then decided to say that we should ban the department of education or get rid of it. i think that is pretty telling that maybe he needs an education there. so i think that desantis really did luck out in the fact that what was supposed to be a desantis versus vivek ended up not papp panning out. >> weirdly disrespectful of desantis' status that he was sort of ignored. i think that he was able to use that to his benefit, he was able it stick to his talking points. but he wasn't rewarded with the attention that typically a frontrunner would be. >> abortion, they spent a fair amount of time talking about abortion. and they should, it is a key issue for voters. i want to you listen to nikki haley and how she addressed this. >> when it comes to a federal ban, let's be honest with the american people and say that it will take 60 senate votes, it will take a majority of the house. so in order to do that, let's find consensus. can't we all agree that we should ban late term abortions? can't we all agree that we should encourage adoptions, can't we all agree that doctors and nurses who don't believe in abortion shouldn't have to perform them? can't we all agree that contraception should be available and can't we all agree that we are not going to put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty if she gets an abortion? let's treat this like a respectful issue that it is and humanize the situation and stop demonizing the situation. >> she also talked about her personal experience, her husband being adopted, her difficulty getting pregnant with her two children. so she personalized it. and then she also talked about the reality of the votes not being there in the senate. is that win for her? >> i think so. because she's walking this tight rope. i mean, for one thing, we know that abortion is becoming more and more popular with americans particularly as they are seeing those rights go away. so coming out super strong and being this boogeyman for not just the left but moderates as well, i'll take away your abortion rights nationwide is not a strategy that will win you over the entire country, so she's saying i'm going to make this personal, let's not go after women, i'm not this boogeyman that you need to be afraid of, but she's also running in a republican primary so she can't say i'm not going to do anything about abortion. and these are her strongly held beliefs. not just pandering to the base. >> and that is why that moment takes courage. i don't think that she is walking a line. she planted a flag in terms of what she believes on abortion. not popular with the crowd, but that is how we get to something reaccept lsembling a national c. so i think it was enormously af effective. >> and pence counter was that it takes leadership. >> and she said leadership and votes. you don't have the numbers to pass a ban even if you want to. thank you all. so this mysterious plane crash and presumed death of a high profile putin foe, we're live with the latest on yevgeny prigozhin. and a decision on an american journalist being held in russia. postmenonopausal osteoporosis and are at high risk f for fracture, you can build new bone with evenityy®. ask yoyour doctor if you can o more than just slowing down bone loss with evenity®. want stronger bones? 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>> reporter: yeah, let's recap for viewers why yevgeny prigozhin is so important. this is the man who headed the wagner group, a close confidant of putin, used by putin to interfere in u.s. elections, spread russia's influence across africa and most importantly fighting on some of the nastiest frontlines with nasty tactics. a catastrophic event appears to have hit this private jet that contained most of the top elite of the wagner group including prigozhin himself according to russian officials. you heard the eyewitness there. now we're hearing that russian forensic scientists whose cars were seen at the scene have arrived at the forensic bureau. russia now piecing together what they will present as an evidence chain as to what has happened here. big caveat, we are dependent entirely upon russian state media, russian officials for telling us fate of yevgeny prigozhin. why is that important? this is the man that led an armed rewell i don't know exactly two months ago against vladimir putin. essentially criticizing how the war was fought but it spirnled in to a chain of events where he was confronting putin directly. a deal caused that armed rebellion to stop. but prigozhin was somehow miraculously still at liberty for two months. this plane crash ends that question as to what was to happen for prigozhin next. we don't have final confirmation he was on board. we may never get it, we may always be reliant upon russian officials for that. >> that is what is so striking, that we very well may never have direct answers to his death and also whether this was intentional. >> reporter: absolutely. look, people are already saying that this was vladimir putin's revenge. people here in ukraine are sort of salivating at the russian elite turning on themselves yet again. russian analysts saying this is not a sign that putin is suddenly strong, he felt the need potentially to kill that man despite the threat allegedly having subsided. so look, whatever the truth of this matter, and it is pretty unlikely frankly that this top end private jet containing and you of prigozhin's inner henchmen suddenly fell out of the sky for no reason, likely there is some other reason behind that, fundamentally we're looking here at the kremlin elite still trying to take each other out and prigozhin no longer part of that equation. >> absolutely stunning. nick paton walsh, thank you. and also happening in russia this morning, moscow court has extended reporter evan gershovich's detention. he appeared before a judge a short time ago and that judge ruled to extend his pretrial detention until november 30th. the 31-year-old faces 20 years behind bars on espionage charges which he and his employer have vehemently denied. clare sebastian is joining us live with more. if we look at the trend of americans who are held in russia, was this an inevitable outcome for this hearing? >> reporter: i mean, i think, yeah, the hearing was basically a formality at this point. he had already had his pretrial extension in may. so the fact that they did it again was hardly a surprise especially given the worsening relations with the united states and given the fact that of course the elephant in the room is that evan gershovich is potentially a high value swap for russia in terms of a prisoner swap. it is clear now that there is a long road ahead for evan gershovich. this detention now stretches to november 30th, it could be extended beyond that. both paul whelan and trevor reid spent more than a year in pretrial detention. and then you get to a trial which is likely to be long in itself. and both precedent and in fact comments from the russian foreign ministry would suggest that russia will want this trial to play out before any discussions on a prisoner swap can be held. >> clare sebastian, thank you. so next the question that produce this had awkward show of hands. we'll talk about it ahead. and one of the candidates with his hand in the air, former vice president mike pence will join us live. at pnc bank, you can find us in big cities and small towns across the us, where our focus is to always support the people who live and work there. because you call these communities home, and we do too. pnc bank. someone's got to stop normal i'ding izing this conduct. okay? now, and whether or not -- whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of president of the united states. and, you know, this is the great thing about this country. booing is allowed, but it doesn't change the truth. it doesn't change the truth. >> real time analysis of how the crowd felt there when chris christie was saying that. that was former new jersey governor chris christie hit with boos following his response on whether he would still support trump if he wins the republican primary. meantime in just a few hours from now, the former president will turn himself into the fulton county jail after being indicted for the fourth time, this one in the georgia election subversion case. joining us now, legal analyst michael moore. along with the rest of our crew this morning. just talk to us about -- we say it, but it is not one, not two, not three, but four in five months and that is the contrast image people will see later today to the others on the debate stage and chris christie saying you just can't do this as someone running for president. >> i think it is a good point. and i'm glad to be with you. the issue i think at the end of the day is it is not hurting him at all in the polls, but it is an unprecedented time to see a president and former president charged and arrested time after time. and he is being charged with conduct by and large that happened while he was a sitting president of the united states. so while impeachment may not have worked and that is typically the avenue you think about, prosecutors have decided that they will move forward on criminal cases both in the federal and state court systems. and so, you know, i think that the coming case is probably the most complex case that is out there, the georgia case. but i also think that the reality is that we won't see it until well after the election. so people will have to make up their mind -- >> do you think that we'll see any of them? >> i don't think so. i think that there are so many unique constitutional challenges that will come into play, you will be talking about things like presidential immunity and executive privilege and the presidential powers to declassify documents and all of those things will be coming into play and they will have to wind their way ultimately through some appellate courts before we get to a trial. and so i think what christie is saying is right in that the conduct itself, whether proven that he did it under the criminal scheme, whether or not that they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt and convince 12 jurors in one or all of these cases, that he is guilty, that the conduct, what happened, is where i think christie is trying to hit. and we'll see if it resonates. it obviously has not thus far. i think that you have seen that the indictments have been in some strange almost perverted way a boon to trump as he has gone through. >> and we were sitting here yesterday and the question was would there be substantive discussion of the issues during the debate. beyond just talking about trump and the indictments. do you think -- because at some point bret bear sayaier says weo mayor on. do you think they talked about it enough? >> i think counterintuitively, the answer is no. there wasn't sufficient followup when there was a raised hand about whether you would support donald trump for the nomination if he were convicted. which is a pretty significant caveat. and here is where i think that we need to reality check this entire debate. chris christie is right. the republican party is normalizing 91 counts against a former president for, asactions made as president. if you can't condemn a former president for trying to overturn an election, what does disq disqualify? and yes, there is negative partisanship causing some republicans right now, primary voters to rally around trump, but the idea that it is a net positive in a general election, the idea that it would help him in a primary ultimately, the idea that it would turn independent voters towards him is just transparently nonsense. and so staying focused on that rather than trying to find ways to rationalize a president having an unprecedented abuse of power that threatens our very democracy, that is the issue. and i don't think that enough was done. >> this was an area where most actually did come together in support of mike pence. let's play some of that for you. >> do you believe mike pence did the right thing on january 6? >> here is what we need to do. we need to end the weaponization of these federal agents. >> that is not the question. >> i know, but here is the thing. >> are you going to answer the question? >> this election is not about january 6 of 2021. it is about january 20th of 2025 when the next president is going to take office. >> i think that the american people deserve to know whether everyone on this stage agrees that i kept my oath to the constitution that day. there is no more important duty. soness at answer the question. >> i've answered this before. mike did his duty. i've got no beef with hill him. but is this what we're going to be focusing on? >> mike pence stood for the constitution and he deserves not grudging credit, he deserves our thanks as americans. >> i do think that vice president pence did the right thing and i do think that we need to give him credit for that. >> tim scott really directly said absolutely he did the right thing. what did that moment tell you? >> i keep saying this tight rope thing, but people do not want to come directly after trump. what happened on january 6 affected the american psyche. i think what people saw and witnessed and the attacks on mike pence, the threats to his life, the threats to the lives of the other congressmen, i do think the republicans on stage know that what happened not only was wrong, but also they need to defend mike pence in this exact moment for the most part. most of those people i do think believe that and also understand politically this is important for the american public. >> so the people on the stage agree that he did the right thing. but he's been heckled as he is out campaigning. does that endorsement add to, lead to any support among the base? >> not when you still have people like donald trump saying that he could have done something. and people on the far right media still saying that pens could have done something to stop the election. they are perpetuating the attack on mike pence and you are not necessarily going to win over those people by being common sense on the stage. so i think that it is smart that the candidates are supporting mike pence and they should be, but it doesn't mean that it will change what the far right voters will say. >> also the right thing to do. you know, mike pence did the right thing unquestionably. he deserves enormous credit for that. >> great movie. do the right thing. >> and the fact that i think the vast majority of candidates didn't shimmy around that but simply said yes, he did the right thing by our country and constitution which has the added advantage of being true, that is good. >> he got the most time. >> yeah. and i think the most passionate response from him was on ukraine. which he defended spending more money, continuing to assume ukr support ukraine. but if you look at the polls, 71% of republicans don't support sending more money. so this may not play well with the base. >> there you saw a debate about policy and you had them making moral cases for the importance of standing by ukraine against russian aggression. and then some were trying to be trump-light saying that it is not really our fight and playing footsie with that isolation. >> and also made the case for why it matters to americans and i think that that is where they targeted voters, they could appeal to them by saying here is why it should matter to you, here is the impact that fall of ukraine has on us as a nation, as a society. and everybody stay here, we'll hear from the voters who watched the debate, what did they see last night in milwaukee? 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[ cheers ] running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. so republican voters, primary voters respe, got a cha hear from eight candidates. the white house hopefuls faced off in a range of topics from the economy to abortion to ukraine without former president trump on the stage. gary tuchman, always love his pieces, when speaks to voters. he spoke to iowa conservative voters to see if there was a clear winner in the debate. watch. >> reporter: in some small city, we saw the first presidential debate with 15 loyal republicans who live in the county. >> eight have qualified and have chosen to be here on our doebat stage tonight. >> reporter: and after it was all over, we asked this -- >> dounks you think this debat good for the republican party? looks like 13 raised their hand. you two do not think it was good, why not, jim? >> it brought up a lot more division and stuff, but i think that it was worth the time. >> it was great for the party, great to have conversation with iowans and people across the united states to see who our next leader will be for the republican party. >> these 15 people, 14 say they are still undecided. jim who we talked to is the only one who is not, he is ready to vote for trump. so who do you think thought did the best, basically who do you think won the debate? i'll do it in alphabetical order. doug burgum. zero. chris christie? he got most of the air time, a lot of air time, not most. how about ron desantis? how many of you think ron desantis did the best? two. how about nikki haley? one, two, three, four people. asa hutchinson? mike pence? zero. vivek ramaswamy? one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. tim scott? okay. so this panel here thinks ramaswamy won the debate. >> reporter: one reason those republicans feel that way? >> i appreciated during his closing statements when he said that there are two genders, god is real. he made sure to put those out there and made them very clear. >> reporter: and one of the reasons nikki haley was runner up? >> she came across as poised, confident and prepared. and i think that she helped herself the most tonight. >> reporter: the candidate who has spoken out the most against donald trump chris christie received no traction here. >> he was just argumentative pretty much. and out after trump. >> you don't think there was any logic to what he said? >> i think it was a lot of revenge. >> reporter: some here feel trump hurt himself by not being at the debate. but most feel that he benefited by being absent. >> i think that he helped himself just because he wasn't able to say anything that people would use against him in the general election. >> reporter: 15 iowa republicans who will all be caucusing less than five months from now. poppy, victor, with all the presidential candidates constantly crisscrossing iowa, it is very easy for residents of the hawkeye state to see a presidential candidate in person. as a matter of fact, of the 15 people on our panel, every one of them tells us that they have seen at least one of the republican candidates in person. and some of these people here tell us that they have seen in person all eight of the people who were on stage wednesday night. poppy, victor. back to the panel now. jessica, let me start with you. vivek ramaswamy. seven of those -- say he had a bad night, but voters think differently. >> i'm not shocked. he took up air time. some people didn't know him and they kept hearing from himoff and over again. i think whenever everyone attacks you, you appear like the frontrunner. and he almost acted as a trump surrogate not only defending the president time and time again, but repeating his lines. so i'm not surprised that people liked that especially in the absence of the former president on the stage. >> he is amplifying a lot of conservative media talking points and that creates its own feedback loop. but nikki haley did well with hand raises well and she's had tough time getting traction. and that was notable as well. >> and she deserved to have those hands raised. she was poised and she was well prepared. and she really did appeal to the human side of things especially when she talked about abortion buff ot but other issues too. ukraine. >> and one element that got a lot of reaction in the room was when it was a show of hands question about who would pardon former president trump if he is convicted. vivek ramaswamy raised his hand high and that worked well. as we said, he also said that he was the greatest president in 21st century. >> and pence explained how a pardon actually works because he's done them. >> yeah, i think that there was a lot of red meat thrown out by vivek ramaswamy to the base. he is a pitch guy and he has these lines like burn coal, use gas, this kind of thing. so saying that he would pardon trump, what does people want to hear. he was about god, guns, gas, coal. and the truth is at the end of the debate, i think that the benefactor was trump by not being there, he just benefits from the chaos that we saw last night. >> to say that you are going to pardon trump, that means that trump would then have to accept the guilt. and they are saying -- >> be convicted. >> be convicted first. pence pointed had out. but by saying that he would offer him a pardon, that means that he also agree that he is guilty and he has to accept it by saying that he is guilty. so if you really think through that, is that the best approach? >> also trying to overturn an election and stay in power is some some how legitimate pl. >> normalized, yeah. >> everybody, thank you. we have a lot more to talk about from last night's debate and we'll see you in a bit. some of the candidates on that stage will also join us this morning. we're looking forward to being joined by former governor chris christie, he will join us ahead. and also ahead, we're live at the fulton county jail in georgia where former president donald trump is expected to surrender right there in a matter of hours. introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. 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