live. first, finding the serious amid paul of the spectacle. the white house correspondents' dinner spilling across the u.s. capital, spilling dozens of events all weekend long, marking normalcy. president biden showing he can deliver a good job, ripping fox's democracy, mocking his low polls and showing he does get let's go brandon. this has a reality vibe especially in years the democrats control the white house and especially with this time around with kim kardashian and david peterson joining. but there was no laughing or guking during this moment i want you to watch. >> the first amendment grants the free press extraordinary protection, but with it comes, as many of you know, a very heavy obligation to seek the truth as best you can, not to inflame or entertain, but illuminate and educate. i know it's tough, and i'm not being sew lit tuesday, the industry is changing immensely. there's pressure on you all to deliver heat instead of shed light as technology changes so much, the system is changing, but it matters. no kidding, it matters. the truth matters. american democracy is not a reality show. it is not a reality show. >> american democracy is not a reality show, but is the media guilty of making it seem that way? the night's tenor trevor noah had comments about that too. but first let's not analyze biden and the event but welcome in the correspondent from the grio, monthly ball, national correspondent for "time" magazine, and author of the early 202 newsletter who just joined the post from nbc and analyst david zurawik is here with us. welcome, everybody. david, you were watching at home. everybody else was in the room. let's talk about biden and how he fared. i think there were questions about what message he would want to bring to this event, how serious or silly he would want to be. what did people in the room think of biden? >> you know, people in the room laughed with him. they thought he was able to laugh at himself. but at the end of the day, he had to mark the moment and he also had to bring people in to see him because we realistically, this is a president who has low poll numbers leading into a midterm that's very critical but as far as laughing at himself, he was able to do that, but as far as also putting an exclamation mark on the moment, a moment of crises, a moment of seriousness domestically and with foreign policy and foreign issues, i think he hit the ball out of the park. >> all of the reality show stuff kind of paused because there was such a serious conversation from both biden and noah about the state of democracy. to me, it felt different than in past years pre-covid, pre-trump even. to me it felt like president biden wanting to talk about democracy versus autocracy, which is which is one of thinks favorite themes. >> it is. from the time he announced his candidacy, he announced that and it was a key insight and people kind of ignored it. now we see what's going on. i think he really did, the key phrase was that you just had up there, democracy is not a reality show. that's what is wrong with the culture. >> but don't we treat it like that? aren't we part of the problem? >> i try not to, and i think you try not to on this show. a lot of us do but a lot of people don't. that's the problem. that's the other problem with it. >> trevor noah i thought had a fantastic media critique that he left hanging in the air at the end of his address. let's go ahead and show that as well. >> if russian journalists who are losing their livelihoods as you were talking about, and their freedom for daring to report on what their own government is doing, if they have the freedom to write any words, to show any stories or to ask any questions, if they had basically what you have, would they be using it in the same way that you do? ask yourself that question every day because you have one of the most important roles in the world. >> i know he's just a comedian and i know it's easier to mock news than make news, but, molly, i think he's trying to say, hey, y'all are not using your freedom as effectively as you should. >> yeah, the lecture always come wrapped in a sort of compliment sandwich, right? and everybody in the media loves being lectured by a comedian. that being said, the people in that room, most of the people, the people who are members of the association, who are white house correspondents, do take our jobs very seriously, you know. and it was interesting thinking about -- it's almost the same challenge that biden faces with his entire presidency. trying to signal the return to normal normalcy at the same time as you acknowledge this is a once in a lifetime moment, this is a different moment coming out of covid, the symbolism of that, trying to send the in essage to america how to be safe and how to go on with life, trying to return to normalcy by also acknowledging the unprecedented challenges. coming out of the trump years, being the first president to turn the dinner to the status quo ante, how do you make that seem normal and recognize it? >> and biden saying you're not the enemy of the people, but guardians of truth. i don't think he will persuade any of that but it's important presidents say it, right? >> yes, and absolutely one of the most important things the president said that seemed to be not part of the prompter, but before he took it to trevor noah, he said you can say whatever you want about me and unlike in russia, you will not be arrested. and so that was a moment as well that not only the -- not crisis but issues happening domestically and divisions among the public and their interpretations and their opinion of the press, but also what's happening internationally as well and what is happening to this very difficult for eastern western journalists to report from russia. >> let's point out that when the event organizers had a tribute to the journalists who had been covering ukraine, who applauded first? tell viewers what you saw. >> the president of the united states rose to his feet and started a slow clap. >> he was the first to stand up. >> he was the first. after that very sober moment of journalists watching the journalists who have died in that war in ukraine, russia war on ukraine. and he began the clapping. >> it he led it. >> he led the clapping, he stood up and everyone in that room, 2,600 people stood up. and it took him to lead that and that's unfortunate. people don't see when we report, we're trying to bring you realtime news, trying to help you understand what is going on in the world, as people try to critique the news, you're always watching us to see what's happened, let's remember that. but at the same time we are talking -- i'm talking here as white house correspondents now, we're the first in line to question the american president and you always look to us to find out. and when something happens, when you have a president or when you have a vladimir putin warring on people, warring on journalists, there's a problem. and the president of the united states began that moment last night that reverberated in that room. it was one of the most poignant moments of the evening. >> yeah, making clear the importance of press freedom around the world in ukraine and russia, where there really isn't any right now. and leigh ann, you happened to be at table that was kigt. there was a callout for journalists who went missing in syria about a decade ago. his family was in the room and there was a moment about austin tights. tell us about that and where you were sitting. >> so debra tice, his mother, was a guest of "the washington post" and she was at my table. and she said that this week of meetings is the most meetings she's been able to have about her son in washington in a very long time. >> wow. >> she said in part because of trevor noah and drawing attention to him. so she has him to thank and she said she wanted to get in touch with his people to be able to thank him and she said it has been a very long pause, really hard to get people to listen to her. >> and i believe biden said on the stage, i want to meet with you, so that seems significant as well. we're going to talk to the head of the journalists a little later this hour about those threats around the world. i want to ask you, april, the folks that watched last night saw a standing ovation for you, recognition of you. it was in january, you april, became the longest serving black female in white house correspondents' dinner history. here's the moment. tell us what this was like for you. >> ooh, i'm getting chills as you show this. i am the longest serving black woman journalist to ever cover the white house 25 years. wendtal golar, the late wendtal golar, is the longest serving at 28 and working at the real, we will pass one another. but the beautiful press association they had last name and lifted up the names of ethyl payne and alice donigan, two of the first black reporters to cover the white house and be credentialed and the racism, the gender hate they received, that in some cases mirrored what i saw a few years ago, it was eerily familiar and for that room, 2,600 people to stand. i had a congresswoman, congresswoman fredricka wilson called me this morning and she said, april, that room was not just at the african american museum history and culture world, we had our party last night, that was a room filled with people, white people, who saw and celebrated you. that was a poignant moment. that was a poignant moment, and i will never forget it and i thank gayle king, my friend, for doing it. it still brings tears to my eyes. >> good, i'm glad to hear it. i don't want anybody to go. we have so much more to talk about. let's take a quick break. so much more with the panel. molly's new cover story for mooim magazine is all about many elon musk and what he will do with twitter? 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why does he really want to own this powerful communications platform? let's talk about it again, april ryan, molly bald, david zurawik, all back with me at the table. molly, you wrote the cover for "time" this week, "what everyone gets wrong about elon musk." so tell us. >> yeah, i got to know elon musk and spend some time with him when i was profiling our profile on him as person of the year back in december. when he talks about politics, it tends to be very much in it tech bro kind of way, i don't agree with either party. he doesn't have traditional political aregionances. so it's been interesting to see, his two missions in life are, number one, to save the climate. and number two, to get humanitarian to mars. so it's very interesting to see him get coded as sort of a right wing billionaire just because of the way he moved on the speech issue. it's very clear he has moved right on the speech issue, and he basically said that this week. but i think people are reading a lot of things into his intentions that he hasn't actually said. and what he has said though is that he would use this as another important problem facing humanity, right? and if you think about it, i think a lot of people would agree with that, that twitter and social media and the toxicity and everything that happens there is a big problem for american democracy, and so it seems that elon musk has also come to that conclusion and decided he can be the one to fix it. now how he's going to do that i think remains to be seen. >> that's the problem right there, we need to find clarity at this moment about control, what will be kept, what will be erased? will some politicians who created misinformation be allowed back on, et cetera. twitter has now become a platform where there's misinformation and in some cases danger and he has got to bring clarity to what he plans to do, especially as many of us who use the platform have been targeted on the platform. there are so many pieces out there in the hinterlands, maybe lying out in mars, that we need to find out about. >> there's more questions than answers right now, leigh ann, what question do you have? >> i want to know if he's going to add an edit button. >> that's a very good one. >> but speech and twitter especially, it's been part of the political discourse now. it's become a culture issue, a wedge issue politically, not only in congress but in the public as well. so it's going to be an interesting journey. >> i think there's a bigger problem that when we focus on the personalities of people like elon musk and people say oh, i think elon is thinking this or that, there's a bigger problem here about how we are going to control the channels of communication in this country. in 1927 we had the radio act, 1934 the communications act. congress stepped in. we made rules. fcc wasn't great but it's still regulating the broadcast industry. you can't use vulgar language and do all of these things with speech. we gave over amongst our airwaves or internet waves to mark zuckerberg and elon musk, and we are in so much trouble because those guys believe in making money. we've already seen that with the 2016 election, and zuckerberg when he was taking rubles for ads from russia saying i think it's crazy to think they had any influence on this election. musk is the same. musk doesn't want -- he's upset with the fcc, how dare they request him? you know what i'm saying? this is dangerous. we can't think anymore in this country, we don't have people -- i'm serious, we don't have people in congress who can make regulations, that can make it work. i think we can look to the western countries in europe for how they are trying to limit it but you need -- you need controls on this. you need regulation. you cannot let these guys control discourse in this country or we are headed to hell. we are there. trump opened the gates of hell and now they're chasing us down. >> that's hard, that's hard. >> this is your observation because you've been covering this for days. >> i'm not here to defend elon musk but, look, one of the things he said he wants to do who has been pointed to by some experts that could include discourse on the platform is authenticate people. get rid of what he calls the spam box, try to make people have real identities. would that go a long way in stopping some of the targeting, some of the harassment? i don't know but a lot of the changes he's talking about making, making the algorithm transparent. giving people access to the stories of what can and can't be seen, that's another thing that people like francis, the facebook whistle-blower said could go a long way and cleaning this up in a systemic way. the way it's done now where it's individual flawed humans with bias trying to make judgment calls in realtime on really difficult stuff that we don't actually know, trying to discern the truth or falsehood of individual pieces of informing or fast-moving, difficult situations like the 2020 election, that clearly isn't working so great either. so if he has got a way to, you know, change the system in a way that makes discourse better, i think we can all use that. >> let's see what he does. you know who loves this, are folks like j.d. van. so many right wing politicians and juwant to be politicians. let's turn to vance and the midterm primary. ohio and indiana, ohio's going to be fascinating. tell us what you're watching with j.d. vance and his rivals in ohio. >> yes, everyone is watching ohio in part because of trump's influence in that race. he endorsed j.d. vance recently. j.d. vance has no political experience. since then j.d. vance, according to one or two polls, has moved up in the polls, perhaps even taking a slight lead. including against josh mandell, who is the more conservative, christian conservative candidate who people like senator ted cruz are behind. everyone is watching this race to see if trump continues to have influence in the party, not only with his endorsements but if he can actually get voters to follow his lead. i have been talking to republicans for many months about this, and this is also a question they have to republican operatives in d.c. so it's not just us that are going to be watching, it's also people in the republican eco sphere too. >> what is vance's evolution tell you about the state of the gop? he was a cnn commentator and now he's tucker carlson's favorite. >> right. and he was anti-trump. he said very crass things against the not-yet-president in 2016, even threatening to vote for hillary clinton. if trump and j.d. vance are able to turn around republican primary voters in this race and j.d. vance wins, it maybe perhaps shows trump does have some hold still on the republican party. >> is j.d. vance desperate, or is he actually looking at the ideology, you know, of trumpism? that's the question in this very working class state that is trying to figure out its way in the midst of a possible impending recession, et cetera. >> right. i like this "washington post" headline saying in once mainstream rival, moderates struggle against trump rivals. it's about a seismic shift in the state. we will get results tuesday night, wednesday morning hopefully we will know. tucker carlson, have you read the big "times ""front-page story today, american nationalists, examining carlton's everybody laugs in his time. straight up, he has the most racist show on table news. >> there might be minor channels we don't know about but he's right up there. and no one has ever had the kind of audience he has and preached the kind of racism he preaches. i think that's absolutely certain. i think the piece in "the times" did a very good job early on of contextualizeding him with father coughlin, 1930s, vir leapt anti-semite out of detroit who had a huge audience. this was rival to roosevelt in those eras. there is a tradition here but tucker carlson -- and i'll tell you what, you can separate tucker carlson from rupert murdoch. rupert murdoch allows this stuff to go out over his airwaves. >> and his son. >> absolutely. i remember in 2018 when he said immigrants make us poorer and dirtier. we were doing a show about that and denouncing it and he was saying they're denying me my freedom of speech and first amendment rights by this advertiser boycott. i mean, he goes from ugly aggressor attacking vulnerable minorities and then as soon as it's punch back, he then plays the investigate card and aggrieves the americans. it works with his audience. but it's so scary. he has tremendous power. the right is powerful because it has him as a voice and the rest of the fox primetime lineup. >> racist entertainment you make believable. >> yes, yes. >> i would love to talk to him and see what he thinks about this. but i doubt that's going to happen. to the panel, thank you very much. let's take a quick break and come back in a moment with gop pollster kristen soltis anderson talking about disconnect between the news coverage that was the d.c. media focuses on versus what america might care about more. be right back. e foods i wantnt to eat and i have lost 69 pounds, james. you're just chchanging your mindset and shifting your eating habits. for me ww is all about flexibility. there's no restrictions. more knowing means more doing. do with ww. i'm reading your aura right now. it's telling me that ww works. get you first 3 months free today at ww.com offer ends may 2nd. i've got moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months, after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs, or if you plan to, or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything ♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. no matter who you are, being yourself can be tough when you have severe asthma. triggers can pop up out of nowhere, causing inflammation that can lead to asthma attacks. but no matter what type of severe asthma you have, tezspire™ can help. tezspire™ is a new add-on treatment for people 12 and over... that proactively reduces inflammation... ...which means you could have fewer attacks, breathe better, and relieve your asthma symptoms. so, you can be you, whoever you are. tezspire™ is not a rescue medication. don't take tezspire™ if you're allergic to it. allergic reactions like rash or an eye allergy can happen. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. sore throat, joint and back pain may occur. avoid live vaccines. by helping control your asthma, tezspire™ can help you be you. no matter who you are, ask your asthma specialist about tezspire™ today. 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>> i think it's about proportionality. i think it's important for the journalists to dig in and fight out what's out there but it's the balance of, is it the top breaking story that it turns out that a pennsylvania congressman texted the white house chief of staff something that we probably all could guess he was texting, that he didn't believe the results of the election. you have gas prices around $4, all sorts of challenges your average american is facing. they're worried about immigration, they're worried about crime, they're worried about the ability to make ends meet and those are the sorts of things if they feel they're not getting coverage from a certain media source on the things they're worried about, they'll go find it somewhere else. >> does that mean republican narratives are beating democratic narratives? when i hear you say they're worried about crime, i kind of hear a republican narrative. >> i don't think being concerned about crime is necessarily a republican narrative. i think a lot of swing voters would push back. >> i mean talk about the story a lot. >> i think the media does but this is a moment at least in the research i'm seeing, swing voters in the middle, their priorities look a little more like the priorities of republican voters. back in 2018 i would have said the opposite. you had swing voters in the middle worrying about things like pre-existing conditions, health care and didn't like donald trump very much. in 2018, those swing voters probably looked a little more like democrats but this year for the midterms, it's the opposite. >> i thought trevor said last night, ever since he came into office things are looking up, gas is up, food is up, present is up. subsidies he has control over but that is the mood in the united states, things are pricier, it's more expensive and hard time. in the press, how do we make that a daily, important story? how do we make that a top story every day to show we're in touch with what the public cares about? >> i think the public would like to know a little more about what's causing this? and that's the sort of thing democrats wouldn't be as upset talking about because in their view they feel they're being unfairly blamed. but americans walk into a store and don't understand why chicken breasts cost as much they do. those stories connect very much where america is. it may not be sexy and breaking news but i think that's the kind of things americans are curious about because it's hurting them at home. >> definitely. this dinner, entire d.c. weekend, when average americans see this, are they repulsed? how do you think it reads to the public at large? >> i think most of the public not necessarily repulsed. >> or doesn't care at all. >> people who are the most jaundiced about the relationship between the press and washington are also the ones least likely to be sort of the covid concerned. there's a couple different reasons why someone might give a little side-eye to the dinner but in general, the audience for the dinner is for the most part the roughly 4,000 to 5,000 people who get a joke about axios being play books without the birthdays. the vast majority of americans are not going to get the joke but that's okay, they're not the audience. >> right. there were a few data polls from 2020 i wanted ask you about. it said 75% of u.s. adults believe it is possible to improve the level of confidence that americans have in the news. should i feel optimistic or pessimistic about that number? that means 25% have given up. >> i think you should feel optimistic about that number. 75% in any poll these days with things being so polarized is pretty good news. the other thing to bear in mind from that poll, you had 63% of americans saying they think it's good for people to be skeptical over news. i know a lot of times we can say look at the crisis that there's a decline and trust in the news media. i do worry not so much people are distrusting of the news but rather that they are trusting of the wrong sources. that's actually something that would concern me more. but most americans don't view distrust or skepticism of the news as a bad thing that needs to be fixed, they view that as a feature, not a bug. >> that's a great point. kristen, thank you for coming on. after the break what is the disinformation in the governor in florida about? they say to combat disinformation and what it can mean and also how it's linked to the ongoing war in ukrainene. your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some...rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save on rivnoq. this is vuity™, the first and only fda approved eye-drop that improves age-related blurry near vision. wait, what? 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managed to move the needle in the battle of disinformation with president volodymyr zelenskyy and other high-rafrging officials successfully calling on tech companies to challenge and to minimize, at least, russia's cyber propaganda. to talk about this and more with moira, the director of technology with the nonprofit national institute. thank you for coming over. >> thank you for having me. >> you say in ukraine we've seen the rules of conflict changing. in what ways? >> we're really seeing the internet be a front in this war and ukraine is really stepping up and showing us something brand new we haven't seen. we've come a long way from 2014 when we talked about little green men to really looking at the internet as a place where we can -- that can press their advantage, where they can mobilize both europe, a lot of european governments, the united states as well as tech companies to help them get their message out and communicate what's actually happening inside of the country. >> what's an example of disinformation pushed by russia that ukraine has actually been able to neutralize or change. is there an example that you could point to as a great one? >> probably the greatest example is the limiting reach on rt and shutting down rt both in ukraine but also in the european union. that's probably been the greatest example and here in the united states undermining their finance to limit the spread of russia today. and that really shows us how -- that mobilization of the market, of governments working together, can really change the dynamic of how we see war play out in our family rooms as we watch it play out on the battlefield. >> right, in our family rooms. here in the u.s. there's been an uproar in recent days about the department of homeland security setting up what they call a disinformation governance board. this has been mostly a fox world story. it did come up earlier today on cnn's state of the union, but i don't think people know what it is and what it isn't. there's a lot of right wing uproar about knowing what it is. are you aware of this at all? what is all of this about? >> aware of it and basically it's abort, exactly as we say, it is meant to bring together people, coordinate a lot of efforts inside dhs, that means law enforcement and emergency services like fema, they've all been doing counterdisinformation efforts for a while to give us accurate information about human rights abuses but also about disasters and where people can get assistance. so coordinating that activity, making it speak with one voice and being a stronger advocate to tech companies and engaging the public and academia, that's really what they're after. >> that sounds like common sense. but when i google this, all i see is like joe biden's ministry of truth. like there's this incredible backlash to something that sounds like basic government bureaucracy. >> it is basic government bureaucracy. around the world what we're asking for governments to do is step up more and play a bigger role in advocating for people. the big litmus test is civil society included? is the media included? so far everything we heard about the board, which is new and just started, shows us that is the intention, to be fully transparent and to demand more from our government in terms of how they protect us from disinformation and enable us to have information that protects our country and advances our ability to survive in major incident, for instance. >> there's also an article this week about the declaration for the future of the internet. what is that? >> i think it's a great step forward. what we saw in the announcement was more than 50 governments coming together to reaffirm a commitment to free expression and advancing human rights as a component, and the internet as a human right. it wasn't just the likes of europep the united states that we typically see but we heard from marshall island, we heard from ukraine, talking about how important it is to view access to the internet and ability to express your opinion as a human right. and so we're seeing democracies around the world really join together and reaffirm that this is a component in advancing democracy. >> do you think the messages about democracy, the messages that president biden expressed last night at the white house correspondents' dinner, is it getting through? is it permeating to the people who actually need to hear it? or is it becoming this left/right issue where conservatives in the u.s. hear the word democracy and they think liberals are just using it as a wedge against them? >> i think the ability for us to have that conversation out here in the public is what makes us a democracy. >> fair, okay. >> but i do think we are making progress on that front and we are -- you know, it's really heartening to see this administration through the summit for democracy and other activities reaffirm democracy as a front and center issue as part of our national security agenda. we fully support that. and i think last night set a tone where we answered a moment where we recognized that democracy is a fragile thing and takes all of us and takes that debate and the importance of satire and importance of being able to have an opinion about the president and be fine. >> and be fine. and i think probably a lot of amer americans took that for granted for a long time and right now we're being reminded not to. >> and around the world this is something people fight for every day. at ndi we try to help people do that, but it's a full-time job and democracy is under assault. the more affirmations like that, not only from president biden but global leaders, is really necessary. >> that's a great point. i had a tweet from a viewer a few minutes ago saying -- i was kind of saying, trump -- excuse me, biden said the press is not the enemy of the people but guardians of truth. he was giving a report to trump. i said okay, but no one is going to be persuaded by that. one of my favorites tweeted, it actually does matter. it does matter when the president repeats it over and over again matters. repeating the truth matters as much as repeating a lie over and over matters. >> and i think you made a great point that people take it for granted unless they see it every day. but we just heard in a previous show about the importance of this issue in taiwan, about the importance of this issue in hong kong. >> right. >> there are activists put in jail every day, the nobel peace prize, maria raisa, that couldn't travel to be with us this week and madeleine albright's funeral, the founder of our organization, because of the limits put on her as a member of the press and what she's facing. so this isn't an abstract issue. it's something here in the united states we really enjoy but around the world it's very real to democratic activists, to journalists and something that we have to keep reminding people of every day and most importantly, asking tech companies to help us to make them realize that as far as a dictator is concerned, they're on our side. so what we need is more proactive activity from the likes of major tech companies to engage in this conversation and to help enable the voices of those who don't have a level playing field in the countries in which they're operating. >> moira, thank you very much for talking to us. >> thank you very much. we will stay on this theemt with the new president of the media to protect journalist is. her first interview about her priority for press freedom around the world. from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement planss help by paying some ofof what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪ at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will help you create a comprehensive wealth plan for your full financial picture. th the right balance of 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you for coming on. we've been covering the death toll in ukraine. reporters killed on the job, but this is a problem even beyond war zones. >> absolutely. i mean, the death toll in ukraine is at least seven journalists so far since the conflict started in late february. what's concerning about the situation for press freedom at the moment is not just the risk to journalists, there's always been risks to journalists reporting. risky, it is a risky profession when you're reporting on conflict. there's a couple of things really concerning about the conflict in particular in ukraine, journalists appear to be targeted, which is something new. often having the word press on your back or your front, seen as a form of protection. now there's a concern it makes you an actual target. and the second thing is, the rising threat to journalists outside of war zones. this year alone, cpj confirmed murders of mexico alone and higher, 7, which would put it at the same level as the conflict in ukraine. that's unimaginable in a country that is a democracy, that is not at war, those are journalists in local context reporting on local issues like corruption who are being killed for their work. >> what are your priorities now as the new president of cpj to try to both raise awareness of this and stop it? >> my priorities will be to continue the great work that cpj has done in documenting these attacks on the press, raising awareness about those threats, particularly, i think, in democracies. we need to be aware that these threats to journalists are not somewhere far away. they're not all happening in authoritarian regimes. they're happening right here in the united states, in uk, in europe. i think you pointed out in your news recently, an attack, a verbal attack by a los angeles sheriff, right, on a journalist. >> it was crazy. he thought he was going to investigate her for breaking news about him. >> for doing her job. and i think we need to be really clear that it is the job of journalists to hold those in power, those in authority to account and that's our role and we should not be criminalized, we should not be attacked, we should not be jailed for holding those in power to account, for doing our jobs. >> and where do people go when they want to help cpj? >> cpj.org. >> well, that was easy. >> it's really easy and one of the things we can really do, and what i really want to do is to help people understand one of your previous guests talked about this, i want to really help people understand that journalism is a public good. journalism, not some rarefied individuals, doing something that is not connected to our day-to-day. we heard -- >> they're just members of the public like the rest of us. >> like the rest of us, whose work is to help us live our best lives, to make sure that we can do our jobs and that's what i want to really do is help people understand that and see it as a positive for everyone. >> great way to put it. jodie, thank you so much. nice 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