good morning. i'm bianna golodryga in new york. >> and i'm jim sciutto reporting from lviv in western ukraine. a very busy morning here. any moment now the u.s. secretary-general will sit down with russian president vladimir putin in moscow while right now in germany, u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin is meeting with his nato counterparts. he says that russia's atrocities in ukraine are, quote, indefensible, but he believes that ukraine can win this war. >> ukraine clearly believes that it can win. and so does everyone here. we have much more to do. ukraine needs our help to win today, and they will still need our help when the war is over. >> this morning, ukraine says russian troops have intensified their assault in the south and in the east. officials say a bridge near the city of odesa is damaged following a missile strike. and overnight, one person is dead after a guided missile rocked zaporizhzhia. that's the same city that was a destination for people trying to escape mariupol. the mayor there says that a third mass grave has been found. he claims russian forces made civilians perform mass burials in exchange for food. just think about that. we begin this hour with cnn international diplomatic editor nic robertson. he is in brussels, belgium. any moment now, u.n. secretary-general antonio guterres will be meet with vladimir putin in moscow. they said guterres should come to ukraine first but he'll be coming after his meeting with vladimir putin. what do you expect to see from this meeting between the two? >> yeah, zelenskyy really wanted guterres to go to ukraine first, as we saw with the austrian chancellor and with the european union council president. to get their own eyes on the war crimes and atrocities committed there. so when they communicate with president putin, this is what zelenskyy wanted guterres to do, he could take that information with him and present it directly as he has already seen it. obviously, guterres not doing that. i think the mood music today on the meeting between the u.n. secretary-general and president putin has been set by sergey lavrov who is casting the situation at the moment as ukraine causing the problems. a hard situation, he described it as almost as if say that not of russia's making. and he also doubled down on ukraine for not wanting to get into peace negotiations, blaming those who want to see russia defeated and as he said, stuffing ukraine more and more full of weapons. a direct criticism there, it seems, from the russian foreign minister of the united states. so i think the bar for expectations of what guterres can take away with -- from president putin should be quite low. expectations should be low. guterres himself saying come on a mission of peace but recognizing there are differences of opinion. this is how he framed it. >> i came to moscow as a messenger of peace. my objective and my agenda is strictly linked to save lives and to reduce suffering. i had a very frank discussion with the foreign minister sergey lavrov, and it is clear that there are two different positions on what is happening in ukraine. >> the secretary general put a huge focus on trying to get humanitarian relief for those people trapped inside mariupol offering u.n. international red cross to work with ukraine and russia to create a humanitarian corridor, to save those lives there. it doesn't appear as if russia is moving in that direction at all. a strategic objective for them to completely crush everything in mariupol. >> something of a remarkable framing there to say two different opinions when, of course, it is russia that invaded ukraine in the first place. nic robertson, thanks. overnight an adviser to volodymyr zelenskyy says russian troops have intensified their assault in the south and the east of this country. right now ukrainian officials say that russian forces are in full control, politically, militarily, in the city of kherson and now planning a sham vote on independence. it's been a playbook they've followed before in this country and others. scott mclean is here with me in lviv. scott, ukraine says that so far ukrainian forces have been able to resist russia's offensive in the east. what are we seeing there? >> as you mentioned, this presidential adviser in ukraine says that these attacks are coming fast and furious, especially in the east and south. one example, the town of kramatorsk where we saw the train station hit just a few weeks ago. thousands of russian troops that are trying to move in on that city. as you mentioned, the ukrainians say they're able to resist in places in the east. in the southern part of the country, the russians are trying to attack once again this extremely significant strategically significant city of mykolaiv again to try to take that. and in kherson, they've occupied for some time, they're now launching attacks toward the north. and even inside the city, they have now taken full control of the city council as well, according to the mayor. perhaps, though, the most significant development in the last 24 hours is the russian strike on this bridge just south of odesa which separates the city from the southern part of ukraine. it crosses a river. and the reason that's so significant is because it essentially cuts off this southwestern portion of ukraine from the rest of the country. in order to get there by road or rail you have to go through moldova. moldova is also the country that contains transnistria, this separatist statelet with a large russian-speaking population where in the last 24 hours, there have been two separate attacks. first an explosion on the ministry of state security yesterday. and today two radio towers were hit as well. last week a russian military commander said that it is russia's goal to take the southern portion of ukraine all the way to transnistria so that it can link up with that russian-speaking statelet. the moldovans have gathered their security chiefs together to meet in response to this. the ukrainians, meanwhile, are blaming the russians for a false flag attack that they say this is in order to gin up anti-ukrainian sentiment in that area, jim. >> it's also right out of the russian playbook. scott mclean, thanks. russian forces attempt to go on the offensive. russian's foreign minister sergey lavrov claimed that the kremlin is striving to lower the risk of nuclear war while warning the west not to underestimate the threat. listen to his words closely. >> translator: i was sure that nothing like this could ever happen again, but what has happened in ukraine has brought these painful memories back very sievidly. it's unbelievable that time hasn't changed anything at all. evil has become even worse with my whole soul, i feel for ukrainians who are taiken violently. against their will from their homes to the unknown. >> that was not the russian foreign minister. what he did say was that he does not want to artificially inflate the nuclear threat but he did say the nuclear threat is serious. and real. joining me now to discuss, prime minister of estonia. prime minister, thanks for joining the program again. >> thank you for having me. >> so a bit of a handicap to you because you didn't hear lavrov's comments but i'm sure you're familiar with them. he did say, he doesn't want to artificially inflate the threat, but that it is serious, and, of course, you've heard on russian state television open discussions of the possibility of nuclear war. and i wonder, when you hear those comments, do you believe those -- it's empty rhetoric or that russia is trying to rattle nato by raising the prospect of a nuclear strike? >> what russia is really good at is playing on our fears. so listening very carefully, what are the fears in societies of different countries and pushing those buttons exactly. so they have been talking about the nuclear threat for some time already because they know this is something that creates a lot of fear. >> you have written, and you've written extensively on the threat. of course, estonia, for folks back in the u.s., sits right on russia's border. you've written, we need a long-term policy change towards russia. the free world should follow the model when the facts change, i change my mind. in your view, is this a new cold war, and if so, does nato, does the u.s. and the west, have to return to a containment policy for russia? >> well, first of all, it's very hot war going on in ukraine right now. it's nothing cold there. and we have to do everything to help ukraine to win this war because otherwise the atrocities will just continue. even if there's some kind of peace treaty, it's not made voluntarily, and there will be a pause of one year, two years, and everything will continue because if the aggressor is not punished, the aggression pays off, clearly. you get some territories and/or in addition you get something more. but what i'm mostly talking about is the smart containment policy, vis-a-vis russia, which means that we can't go back to business as usual. there are war crimes committed in ukraine. this is clear aggression, what russia is doing in ukraine, and we can't overlook this and go back even if there is some kind of peace treaty signed. so we need to isolate russia politically in all the international fora that deal with international law. >> you said to me before, you've said publicly that if the west does not stand up to russia in ukraine, that other countries, including perhaps your own could be next. general milley, who i'm going to interview a short time from now, supports permanent nato bases in the baltics, including estonia, but not necessarily a permanent nato deployment there. but perhaps a permanent base with rotational deployments. is that sufficient in your view to deter russia going forward? >> first of all, let me correct. i have always said that we are not the next ones because we are under theinator umbrella and that makes us much different. what we see right now and from the previous talk that you had, what is under threat right now is what is happening with moldova and russia hasn't been really very secretive about their plans. but what comes to nato and strengthening nato, then, yes, we need more, you know, troops presence here and, of course, the way nato decides to do it, whether it's division sized troops, collective defense together with the nato defense forces and our own defense forces, it's rotational. but what is important is that it's not the forward presence, but the forward defense posture. what it means is that those troops are immediately able to push back if, you know, the aggressor would have such thoughts. so russia has raised the level of aggression and the level of defense should go also to reflect that. >> estonia has led the way in many ways, both in terms of military aid to ukraine but also in terms of pledging to get off its dependence on russian natural resources, specifically natural gas. the foreign minister says estonia will attempt to be off it entirely by the end of this year. you've heard other european leaders say they want to cut natural gas imports by about two-thirds by the end of the year. significantly, but not completely. do you believe these commitments? do you believe your european allies will hold themselves to that standard and deliver? >> well, of course, it is very different for different european countries because different european countries have different dependencies on russian gas and oil. it is easier for those countries who don't have such a dependency to make those decisions. but what i see around the european table is a clear will to stop financing the war machine of russia. of course, you know, there is for all the leaders is the right balance to strike. the price that your own people are going to pay for this and the suffering of ukrainians on the other side. so, of course, these are very difficult decisions, but i see the clear will that we don't want to finance russia's war. >> a point we've heard many times and to the tune of many billions of dollars. prime minister kaja kallas, we appreciate having you back on the program. thanks so much. >> thank you. still to come -- a cnn exclusive. i speak with general mark milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff as the u.s. weighs its next steps, nato's next steps as well, to help ukraine fight off russia's invasion and this unprovoked war. that's later this hour. >> an important conversation you don't want to miss. also another cnn exclusive. more than 2,000 text messages show in great detail how trump's inner circle reacted to january 6th. how they quickly tried to rewrite the story. you'll see it for yourself, up next. our septic system. but rid-x does. in a 21 month study, scientists proved that rid- x reduces up to 20% of waste build up every month. take the pressure off with rid-x. 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>> it's really striking how quickly so many people scrambled to find alternate bad actors. it was antifa it was lifts, also at one point the fbi and the deep state. i think that that gets to the fact that a lot of these folks from jason miller to laura ingraham, to marjorie taylor greene knew how bad this was and knew they needed to blame other people. and that makes it so much worse that in the days and weeks and months after, they were justifying the lies that led to the insurrection. they were justifying the reasons behind it. you know, that just goes to show how inauthentic they actually are. >> yeah, but also that it came up as an idea. there wasn't a shred of evidence, not that we subsequently found out there were antifa activists involved or anything, but to hear this just came out from somebody's idea, somebody's thought process, in a text, sent to the chief of staff and clearly you saw that put into action. i know that you also -- >> well, so -- >> what? >> sorry. go ahead. >> no, go ahead, finish. >> well, i mean also what came out is just like an idea, a suggestion that a number of people went to very quickly was, why don't we just overturn the election. a democratic election. we saw lots of people just casually suggesting that as if that isn't something that has never been done. as if that's something that isn't grotesquely un-american and undemocratic and not conservative. that just came out of a lot of people's mouths, and i think that speaks to how thoroughly trumpism has scrambled the brains of republicans and created this like malignant group think. >> yeah, also is it normal for so many people to have access like that, the phone number for the president's chief of staff? >> yeah, this was like my first thought. my first thought was, how do all these people have a direct back channel to the president of the united states, his chief of staff, everyone from family members to cable news hosts to the mypillow guy, rally organizers. fired and former staffers. this was a lot of people who not only had access but thought they had influence over the president in the days after the election and around the insurrection. that is shocking. and at best, that feels wildly inefficient. and at worst, like a security risk. >> yeah. and mind you, these aren't all the text messages. this is just over 2,000, but there were many more. s.e. cupp, thank you. great to see you. coming up, fenced in apartments and shipping container road blocks. strict covid restrictions prompting outrage in shanghai. the response? a digital uprising unfolding in realtime. we'll have that story out of china up ahead. like fading, strg and pilling. woolite has a first of its kind formula that keeps today's fabrirics looking like new. woolite damage and darks defense. it's still the eat fresh refresh, and subway's refreshing their app. so you can customize your favorite footlong, set a pickup time, and jump t line! oh, here she goes! ugh, ihought she was actually gonna jump. just u this code and order on the subway app! at bath fitter, every quality bath starts with quality peopl our consultants help you choose from hundreds of bath optis so we fit your style. our installers complete your work in as little as a day so we fit your schedule. our manufacturing team custom crafts your bath so we fit your standards, and it's guaranteed for life. when you can trust the people who create your new bath, it just fits. bath fitter. visit bathfitter.com to book your free consultation. pre-rinsing your dishes? 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and if you thought the city may be near reopening or easing lockdowns, images from the streets of shanghai show giant containers not bringing in much-needed supplies but helping to build more blockades. this as more positive cases and close contacts are rounded up and sent to government quarantine facilities. some left to sleep in tents in the middle of deserted streets as their dormitories are disinfected. as the rising tune of discontent echoes throughout the eerily empty metropolis, for many shanghai has fallen. david culver, cnn, shanghai. >> goodness. giant prison. still to come, a cnn exclusive. i speak with general mark milley, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff for the latest on the war here in ukraine and the nato response. that's coming up. it was a easy decision -- clearchoice. 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it's not a no no. it's not about the no no's, it's about the know know's. get you first 3 months free today! hurry! offer ends may 2nd. mission control, we are go for launch. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. kyiv is now under a new nighttime curfew. although russian forces have withdrawn from the area, missile strikes are still a threat for the capital and its suburbs. but authorities have told our next guest some of kyiv's territorial defense forces have left the city and formed a second line of defense in the south and east of ukraine where russia is stepping up its attacks. joining me now is nolan peterson, a war correspondent and senior editor at coffee or die magazine. great to have you on. you talk about these territorial defense forces. many of them had little to no training leading up to this war and invasion. two months in from your perspective, how are they holding up? >> i think they are doing incredibly well. i have covered this war since 2014, and i think it's clear now that the past eight years of war in the donbas really laid the groundwork for the incredible societywide resistance that we've seen in ukraine since the full-scale war began february 24th. the regular army has transformed over the last eight years into a very competent, modern military, which has learned a lot of lessons from the donbas over the last eight years. particularly, they've learned to be creative and they've also learned to sort of empower their frontline troops to make their own decisions in combat, which is a big change from the soviet era chain of command model in which they had strict control over their troops, in which russia still uses within its military. but for ukraine's civilians who make up the territorial defense force, in 2014, you saw the civilian volunteer battalion movement in which everyday ukrainians took up arms and reversed russia's invasion of the donbas. and they fought the war to a stalemate. and we're seeing that same sense of volunteerism and resistance now among ukrainian society. and as the war drags on and we see these atrocities in places around kyiv and fronts like in mariupol, there's a sense among ukrainians that they're not just fighting for their freedom any longer, but they're also fighting for the nation's survival. and that's a very hard motivation to beat. that empowers a lot of these territorial defenders who have very little military background to overperform on the battlefield. >> it is interesting to see so many western countries, including the united states, admit they had underestimated ukraine's military forces' capabilities and clearly had overestimated russia's. you mentioned mariupol. you interviewed a few people who survived the charnage there. i want to read for our viewers what one of them told you. the russians do not spare anyone. they do not follow any rules, neither military nor moral. they know exactly where they are shooting and what they are doing. time and time again we see examples of russian military striking specifically at civilians. not just in mariupol, but obviously surrounding kyiv as well. we saw the massacres there and the carnage out of bucha. how does the military in ukraine -- how do they counter that? how do they prepare for that seeing what they've seen these past eight weeks? >> well, like i just said, ukrainians are no longer just fighting for their freedom. they're fighting for their survival. that gives them an incredible will to endure and to keep fighting and to resist. and that morale that they have, that courage far surpass that of their adversaries, the russians. when you hear stories like from what happened around here in kyiv, in bucha and irpin and other places and now as we watch what's going on in mariupol, you know, it really underscores for the ukrainians that they either have to win this war or their nation could be erased. specifically when we talk about mariupol and the horrible combat that we're seeing there, it's important to note that the factory is not just one building or the factory where the remaining ukrainian forces and civilians are holed up. it's that factory represents about one-fifth the total land area of mariupol. for russia to say they've already conquered that city and they're just moving on is disingenuous at best. and even here in kyiv, you are starting to see signs popping up around the city and people out holding posters on the maidan saying we're with you, mariupol. that resistance is inspiring people to continue the fight and is further fueling that sense of resistance across ukraine. >> i keep repeating what president zelenskyy said a few weeks ago. mariupol is the heart of that country. you can feel it, even in your reporting. nolan peterson, thank you so much. >> thank you. jim, this comes at a time when the west, including the united states, has really made a pivotal shift in how they assess this war and ukraine's capability and even winning it? >> we'll get a chance now to speak to someone who knows a lot about that. moments from now, defense secretary lloyd austin will take questions in germany following meeting with other nato leaders. u.s. military officials gathering with their counterparts for more than 40 other nations to discuss the security situation. secretary austin saying this morning, ukraine believes it can win the war, and so does the u.s. joining me right now is the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark milley. general, thanks for taking the time this morning. >> jim, thank you. i appreciate the opportunity. >> it's good to have you on. this phrasing that secretary austin used yesterday, the goal of weakening russia, has the u.s. aim in this conflict expanded beyond just helping ukraine defend itself to an aim of degrading russia's military so it cannot attack other countries? >> yeah, thanks, jim, for that. first, i want to thank you for just being in lviv and covering the war. the media coverage has been really critical to making sure the truth gets out about what is happening. as you know and we all know, the entire world knows, this is an unprovoked war of aggression by russia on a much smaller country. with respect to what we're trying to do, the united states and all the allied countries and we just finished a conference with about 40, 42 countries from around the world, not just nato, to coordinate and synchronize continued and sustained lethal and nonlethal support to ukraine in their fight for freedom. at the end of the day, what we want to see, what i think the policy of all of the governments together is a free and independent ukraine with the territory intact and their government standing and the russian aggression has been halted and stopped, and at the end of the day, i think that's going to involve a weakened russia, a strengthened nato and as you see finland and sweden and other countries, and the unity of the west and the unity of nato and indeed the unity of the globe has probably never been stronger than it is in the face of this unprovoked aggression. that's where we're heading. >> as you look at russian forces focus their attention on the eastern part of the country and the south, have they made sufficient adjustments in terms of, for instance, supply lines but also command and control to have more success in the east than they have in the north around kyiv? >> that remains to be seen, jim. they struggled mightily with command and control, fighting at night, establishing air supremacy and air superiority. they had a real difficult time with logistical resupply and a wide variety of other challenges and issues. most of that was caused by the bravery, the talent, the skill of the ukrainians on the ground and fighting in accordance with the training that nato and other allies have given them over many, many years. so war is a two-way street. there's action and reaction and counteraction. the first part of this operation, the strategic attempt to seize kyiv in a lightning strike, the attempt to untopple the zelenskyy government failed and now what the russians are trying do is envelop and then crush about half the ukrainian army around the line of contact. the ukrainians are set. they are ready for this fight, and our task here in nato and in the west is to continue to support ukraine in their fight for freedom. >> you've heard the comments from the russian foreign minister in the last 24 hours saying that russia does not want to artificially inflate the nuclear risk but called the risk serious. you've heard comments on russian state tv where they even celebrate that prospect to some degree. i wonder, has the u.s. seen any unusual or new movements of russian nuclear forces or weapons that would indicate that that commentary is more than just rhetoric. >> well, any time a senior leader of a nation state starts rattling a nuclear state, everyone takes it serious. it's irresponsible for any senior leader to be talking like that in today's world. we are monitoring, as a military, we're monitoring very closely with all of our friends and allies and take those things very seriously. >> short of a nuclear risk, you testified before congress a short time ago that the potential for significant international conflict is increasing, not decreasing. i'm quoting you. since then russia issued a diplomatic protest to the u.s. and nato to stop its weapons shipments. has that increase in military support in your view increased the danger of direct conflict between the u.s. and russia? >> actually think it's the opposite. i think that what's at stake here is much greater than ukraine. what's at stake is the security of europe. this is the greatest challenge for the security of europe since the end of world war ii. and indeed, you can easily make the case that what's at stake is the global international security order that was put in place in 1945. that international order has lasted 78 years. it's prevented great war. and underlining that entire concept is the idea that large nations will not conduct military aggression against smaller nations, and that is exactly what's happened here. unprovoked military aggression by russia against a smaller nation. so if this is left to stand, if there is no answer to this aggression, if russia gets away with this cost free, then so goes the so-called international order. if that happens, then we're heading into an era of seriously increased instability. so right now it's -- now is the time and right now is the opportunity here to stop aggression and to restore peace and security to the european continent. >> throughout your service and your command, you've been vigilant about the threat of disinformation, particularly from a nation such as russia. we've seen a whole host of it in this conflict so far. when you see some of that disinformation repeated by americans, in american circles, including this false charge about the u.s. funding chemical weapons operations here in this country, what is your reaction to that? >> propaganda and disinformation, jim, as you know, is warfare. that's been around since the earliest days of recorded time. and today the means and mechanisms of disinformation and propaganda are fundamentally different with television or print media or social media, et cetera. but the idea of disinformation, of spewing propaganda, has been around for a long time. and that is happening today. the russians are doing it on a continual basis, not only in europe but around the world to make their case for what is a completely unjustified attack on a smaller nation. >> general mark milley, we appreciate you taking the time, and we appreciate your service. >> thanks, jim. appreciate it. appreciate the opportunity. at the top of the hour, defense secretary lloyd austin who has been in those very same meetings with general milley today. he's going to answer questions from reporters. we'll bring you that news conference live right here on cnn. please stay with us. only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for at you need. if anyone jects to this marriage... 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"at this hour" with kate bolduan starts right a after a quick break. and pilling.g. woolite has s a first of its kind formula that keeeeps today's fabrics looking like new. woolite damage and dadarks defense. riders! let your queries be known. yeah, hi. instead of letting passengers wrap their arms around us, could we put little handles on our jackets? -denied. -can you imagine? i want a new nickname. can you guys start calling me snake? no, bryan. -denied. -how about we all get quotes to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? approved. cool! hey, if bryan's not gonna be snake, can i be snake? -all: no. this is cnn breaking news. >> hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. we begin with the war in ukraine at a major turning point. in the last 24 hours, there has been a significant shift in the rhetoric from the united states and nato allies vowing to do everything that they can to help ukraine win and also to not just stop russia there. but also weaken russia going forward. defense secretary lloyd austin just wrapped a meet with dozens of his international counterparts in germany. austin will be holding a press conference in just moments. we're standing by for that and we're going to bring it to you as soon as it begins. the tough talk is also coming from moscow. russia's foreign minister a accusing nato of engaging in a proxy war by arming ukraine. and he warned that the threat of nuclear war should not be underestimated. the u.n. secretary-general is in moscow this morning meeting with vladimir putin. and in ukraine, russian forces continue to pound the eastern part of the country. the mayor of mariupol now says that three mass graves have been found near the city. let's begin in germany. orrin lieberman is live at ramstein air base there. what are we expecting to hear from secretary austin after these really big

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