died. both under the age of 18. >> 14 people were injured in a mall shooting in columbia, south carolina. many people were lined up to get their pictures taken with the easter bunny. >> still 500 americans dying every day of this virus. the pandemic is not over, as much as we all wish it were. >> connor jack ozwald, he was reported missing in september of 2019. >> you look like you're shivering. are you cold? >> the missing person photo that we located was this. >> is it him? >> a little bit older, but yeah. >> sweetheart. oh, my god. hi. i'm pamela brown in washington. it is great to be back with you on this easter holiday. you are live in the cnn newsroom. and we begin this hour in ukraine where the national defiance shows no sign of buckling under the xwroeg devastation and death. near kyiv crews search in the rubble of two high-rise apartment buildings have recovered the bodies of at least 41 civilians so far. and the search is not over. the russian assault is escalating in many areas. we do want to warn you that this video is graphic and you may find it disturbing. this is the northeastern city of kharkiv, where residential areas have suffered a full day of extensive shelling. ukrainian officials say at least five people were killed and more than a dozen injured. but their forces still managed to push the russians back east of the city. in mariupol, a port city under relentless siege since the war began, an official there saying russian forces will stop people from entering or leaving beginning tomorrow. the official warns ominously that the remain men will then be, quote, filtered out. we do want to note cnn cannot independently verify the claims but they come after ukrainian forces in mariupol defied russia's ultimatum to surrender today. and tonight we are also learning more about the tense meeting where austria's chancellor confronted vladimir putin about the war's growing carnage. >> i think he is now in his own war logic. he thinks the war is necessary for security guarantees for the russian federation. he doesn't trust the international community. he blames the ukrainians to -- for genocide, genocide in the donbas region. i think he believes he is winning the war. >> and here more details coming out of ukraine tonight. some 100,000 civilians are believed trapped in mariupol. ukraine's president says some 5,000 children there were deported to russia, and there's no evidence where they are now. the regional governor says as many as 22,000 people have been killed in the city since the beginning of the war. ukraine's president admitting the situation in mariupol is bleak but he also says surrendering ground to russia is too great a price to end the war. here is some of his exclusive interview with cnn's jake tapper. >> how bad are things in mariupol, and what can be done to help the people of mariupol? >> translator: the situation is very difficult in mariupol. it's clear that things won't get better. with each passing day it's growing more unstable. unfortunately, it is difficult for different reasons. i will not talk about the cruelty with which the russian authorities have treated mariupol, the russian military. there are two components. no one knows how many people died among the civilian population. if anyone gives you a figure, it will be a total lie. hundreds of thousands were evacuated. several thousand, tens of thousands were forced to evacuate in the direction of the russian federation. and we do not know where they are. they've left no document trail. and among them are several thousands of children. we want to know what happened to them, whether they are in good health. unfortunately, there just isn't any information on this. and regarding what population has remained there, we also don't have a definitive answer. one day they say there are 50,000 or 60,000 left there. and then another day someone says 100,000. and now we have information that perhaps 10,000 people have died there, all civilians who stayed. we're talking about civilian deaths, not military. >> and we hear about 5,000 children deported from this region to the russian side because they didn't allow them to go to the ukrainian side. >> what do you say to people either in ukraine or elsewhere in the world who say just give putin the donbas, just give putin eastern ukraine, stop the bloodshed, let him have the territory? what would your message be about that? >> translator: in the centuries-old history of ukraine there is the story that ukraine has either taken some territory or needs to give you some territory. ukraine and the people of our state are absolutely clear. we don't want anyone else's territory, and we are not going to give up our own. >> zelenskyy also called the situation in mariupol inhuman. and he says any more russian war crimes would make negotiations impossible. so let's begin this hour in kyiv. that's where we find cnn's phil black. phil, russian forces have stepped up attacks in the capital and the surrounding areas just over the past couple of days. what is the latest there where you are? >> reporter: that's right, pamela. indeed, for three straight days now there have been missile strikes impacting the outskirts of the capital, kyiv. the latest was to the east of the city, hitting what officials call civilian infrastructure. they say it was damaged and that it could impact the supply of power and water to some areas. russian military has said it's going to continue to hit the capital kyiv for as long as it thinks or whenever it thinks ukraine is plotting to launch attacks on the soil of the russian federation. meanwhile, there have been strikes across all the other major battlefronts in the country. in the south around mykolaiv and kherson it has been in recent weeks a great cause of the violence has been counterattacks by ukrainian forces. but in recent days they say it's it russian forces that have been far more aggressive and on top of that they're dealing with missile strikes and constant artillery as well. and then in the easte country this is perhaps where the fighting is most intense. in the kharkiv region, particularly kharkiv city itself, there's been shelling in the central and residential areas which we're told has injured 20, killed five in the last day or so. and then in the luhansk region there are towns and villages that are almost under constant bombardment even though these are purely residential areas and there's not much of them left. such has been the bombardment in recent days and weeks. all of this is part of the build-up of the expected new russian offensive operations that are thought to begin imminently in that eastern region. what ukraine is really waiting for now are ukrainian -- russian ground forces, infantry and armor, to try to really launch a major operation to push through, break through ukraine's defensive lines and take control of much more of that eastern region known as the donbas. pamela. >> all right. thank you so much. phil black live for us from kyiv tonight. we have a lot to break down for you. joining me now is retired air force colonel michael mcclung. hi, colonel. welcome to the show. as the war shifts to this new phase, a massive ground offensive in the east, is it time to revisit the u.s. and nato's refusal to establish a no-fly zone. in your view. >> happy aefrp, pamela. and good to be with you. you know, that's a tough call. i think that a no-fly zone over ukraine would look a lot different than the antiseptic air policing that we've gotten used to over the years in places like iraq, in the southern parts of iraq. in iraq although the threat to our airmen flying was not negligible, it was low. low enough to where they could react to the threats from surface-to-air missiles and then take action. in ukraine i think it would be much different. i think nato would have to proactively strike those air defense missiles on the ground at the start of any type of no-fly zone. and if you allow me to move the chess pieces a little further, you'd have to ask yourself if you're going to strike an air defense system why not strike the tank or piece of artillery next to it? so you would evolve quickly into an air campaign. and then would putin allow nato to fly sorties from surrounding countries like germany and poland without reacting? would he launch ballistic missiles into germany, into poland? and that is conventional escalation. there's a lot of talk about nuclear escalation. but there's a conventional escalation that's a possibility. and right now nato doesn't want to take that risk. so no no-fly zone for now. >> so i'm curious what you think about what my cnn colleague fareed zakaria proposed in this "washington post" op-ed where he said there should be an enforcement of an embargo of ukrainian waters in order to prevent russian soldiers from resupplying and from attacking ukrainian cities. what do you think about that idea? >> i think that's very similar to the no-fly zone. so if that happens you're putting nato vessels in direct confrontation with russian vessels. that's a risk that so far nato doesn't want to take because now you're getting into that conventional escalation. i think all these ideas have very good tactical and operational military merit, whether it be a no-fly zone or air campaign or naval blockade. they would prove to be extremely important to the ukrainians. they would help them a great deal. but again, it's about the risk. do we want to risk that conventional escalation? there are good arguments on both sides of the ledger, and right now nato is standing fast by saying not right now. >> a city official in mariupol, which is largely ruined, is still not fully under russian control at this hour. that official says a chilling new phase is about to begin, saying that beginning tomorrow russian forces will block anyone from entering or fleeing the city and that the remaining men will be, quote, filtered out. cnn cannot independently verify the claims. but colonel, as russia's war shifts, what do you expect to see in the east? >> yeah, this is going to be very interesting. the first phase of the war taught us a couple of things. one, we learned that ukrainians aren't scared of pictures of long convoys of russians, right? we tracked a long convoy going down to kyiv for i don't know how many days, only to see that force have to be -- you know, thwarted by the ukrainians, then ultimately retreat. so i think there's going to be a lot of talk in the coming days and weeks about russian forces moving into the area, armor, artillery, and yes, mass is a key principle of war but so is unity of command, so amaneuver. it's also important to be able to seize critical information, get it to the battlefield and act accordingly. and so far the russians haven't done that quite well. when they pressed to kyiv, i think those type of intangibles, those types of things that you can't take a picture of, they're going to prove to be just as important as the artillery and the tanks we'll be hearing so much about. if the russians are able to break out of mariupol and connect mariupol to izyum, if you draw a line from izyum to the north all the way down to mar mariupol, that's going to be a critical area. if the ukrainians can hold the russians off there, i like their chances. but it's going to be those intangibles i think that will be just as important as all of the armor and all of the artillery we're going to be talking about in the coming days. >> colonel michael mcclung, thank you again. and happy easter to you. >> hey, thank you. thanks for having me. >> coming up next on a sunday evening, a teenager missing for nearly three years is found shivering outside a gas station 700 miles away. tears of joy from his family when they realize their son who they thought was dead is still alive. you're in the "cnn newsroom." >> holy crap. >> is it him? >> a little bit older, but yeah. >> my sweetheart. oh, my god. 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(laughs) flexible cancellation. kayak. search one and done. and turning now to utah where police found a teenager who had been missing for nearly three years. he has autism and was found sleeping outside a convenience store. cnn's camila bernal joins me now. so camila, his parents thought he was dead. and we have this bodycam footage of them finding out that he is alive. it was just so emotional. >> reporter: it truly was so emotional. so moving for so many of us who watched it. and you will get to watch it in just a second. but i will start from the beginning because this all started a couple of weeks ago when the sheriff's department started getting phone calls reporting connerjack oswalt, now 19 years old, and they say he wasn't breaking the law but people were concerned and deputies went out there to try to help him. he had refused the help but then last saturday they were able to help him. and all of that interaction was caught on bodycam video. here's part of it. >> you look like you're shivering. are you cold? you want to come sit in this car and warm up for a minute? we can't have you sitting in front of the door here all night. i can't hear you. >> as long as i'm not being taken anywhere. >> no, you're not being taken anywhere. just come sit in the car and warm up. where's your shopping cart at? >> it got stolen. >> it got stoleen? >> yeah. >> that's no good. >> [ inaudible ]. >> go ahead and sit in my front pang seat, where it's warm. >> come in here and warm up. you have a knife or gun or anything like that? >> bazooka? cross-bow? >> no. >> just have a seat. where were you at when your shopping cart got stolen? >> i don't know. >> what's that? >> it doesn't matter. >> now, after this encounter it was a dispatcher who went through pages and pages of missing children and essentially connected the dots. they found connerjack oswalt. they called his mother, and she told deputies that he had a very distinctive birthmark on his neck. they found that birthmark. and then his stepfather went to utah to identify him in person. once the stepfather identified him, they called his mother, and that moment was also caught on bodycam video. and that's the very emediotiona video that we talked about. here it is. >> the missing person photo that we will located was this. >> yeah, that's -- >> and then the photo that came from nevada for the arrest was this. >> holy crap. >> is it him? >> a little bit older, but yeah. >> and what stood out to me -- >> oh, my god! >> -- is the ears. you know, not knowing him. >> yeah. >> he looks pretty similar to this. his hair's longer right now. his beard's a little bit thicker. >> yeah. wow. >> my sweetheart's alive. oh, my god. [ crying ] >> yeah, i definitely will do my best to bring him home. >> and the sheriff said there was not a dry eye in that room. and that included law enforcement. we know that he is now getting the care and the resources that he needs. pam? >> i have chills listening to that mother cry, thinking her son had died, finding out he was still alive. do we know anything more about how he was able to survive on his own the last nearly three years? >> reporter: we don't. and our affiliate in utah just saying that they don't even know how he ended up where he ended up. there's still a lot of questions around this entire case. but the mother just saying that it doesn't matter, that she is so happy to have him, she is happy to know her son is alive because they thought he was dead. so really she says it doesn't matter what happened or how he got to where he got. it was the fact that they found him and that they're able to reunite, hopefully very soon. >> beautiful ending to this story. camila bernal, thank you. >> thank you. well, pittsburgh public schools are planning a, quote, modified lockdown tomorrow. this after a fatal shooting at a party where hundreds of young people had gathered. it was one of three mass shootings this weekend. cnn's nadia romero is following this story for us. nadia, what is the latest that you're hearing tonight? >> reporter: pam lav, just hearing that from the pittsburgh school district, they'll be in a modified lockdown, which simply means that unless you have an appointment you will not be allowed in or out of any of their school buildings because they believe that there were some 200 people attending this house party in pittsburgh overnight and the majority of them were under age. so likely some of them might have attended the school district there or know people who were. and this was such a chaotic scene for police when they arrived. reports of 90 rounds of a shooting that happened inside and outside of an airbnb that was rented. and many of those kids under age. there were drugs, guns, and alcohol found on the scene. when police arrived, they say that some of the kids were jumping out of the windows of that property trying to get away from the shooting. we know that two juveniles are dead. police tell us that it is two boys under the age of 18 who died. another eight gunshot victims. as well as many other people who were injured trying to flee from that shooting. listen to the police chief there talk about how chaotic of a scene it was when they first arrived. >> it's heartbreaking. here we are easter and we have multiple families. two that won't see a loved one. others that are going to be -- know how can you even have a holiday when your child was involved in something traumatic like this. >> and that is why the police chief says this is their top priority, to find the people they believe are responsible. and they believe they're looking for multiple shooters. now, that wasn't the only gun violence incident we saw over the weekend. also two incidents in south carolina. the first being in columbia, south carolina apt a mall, a very busy mall right before the easter holiday on saturday afternoon a shooting rang out because police say there were people inside who had some kind of an altercation and that is when a shooting happened. right now they have one suspect in custody. it's 22-year-old juwayne price. he's been charged with unlawful carrying of a pistol. now, police tell us that they've made this one arrest but there could be more charges and more arrests coming as the investigation continues. and listen to this. 4 people were injured. 14. nine of them gunshot victims. the oldest a 73-year-old woman. and the youngest person was just 15 years old. now, no deaths in this shooting at the mall, but it remains under investigation. and there was yet another shooting, pamela, in south carolina in hampton county. at least nine people were injured in a shooting there. no deaths. that is still under investigation. and when i spoke with one father who was inside of the mall in columbia, south carolina, pamela, he said to me we see this on tv, we never thought it would happen to us in our small town in such a quiet community, that this would happen here. and that's what we're seeing unfortunately, gun violence happening all across the nation, even on a holiday weekend. >> just senseless violence. nadia romero, thank you for bringing us the latest on that front. you're in the "cnn newsroom" on this easter sunday. while he's waging war on ukraine, vladimir putin has another battle going on. this one is all propaganda. i'm going to talk about it with two people who know a lot about this subject and think the truth is finally starting to get through to the russian people. we'll tell you why. coming up. 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(burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪we are farmers.bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum♪ asya agulnik md: st. jude was founded with an understanding that no child should die in the dawn of life. to work with many partners all over the world, nothing stops in the way of us achieving that mission, not even war. marta salek md: when there is a need, people stand up and do what is right and ensure that they restart medical therapy as quickly as possible. carlos rodriguez-galindo md: any child suffering today of cancer is our responsibility. at xfinity, we live and work in the same neighborhood as you. we're always working to keep you connected to what you love. and now, we're working to bring you the next generation of wifi. it's ultra-fast. faster than a gig. supersonic wifi. only from xfinity. it can power hundreds of devices with three times the bandwidth. so your growing wifi needs will be met. supersonic wifi only from us... xfinity. before russia's war on ukraine kira obedinsky was a joyful beloved 12-year-old little girl. this carefree life of hers tragically did not last long. this is kira after the invasion. orphaned, bruised and alone in a russian-controlled hospital. she was injured by a landmine while trying to flee russian forces. kira has become an unwitting pawn in putin's information war. one of the 60,000 ukrainians moscow claimed it has brought to safety. a video playing on russian state media shows kira talking happily about how she occasionally gets to speak to her grandfather. making no mention of the fact she'll soon be sent to an orphanage in russia and that it's russian forces who are basically preventing her grandfather from seeing her. thankfully, there are new signs that putin's propaganda bubble may be starting to burst. "the new york times" reports that ukrainian activists and u.s. institutions are finding ways to get accurate information in to russia, and some experts say it is starting to have an effect. jonathan tubener is the founder of the data analytics company filter labs a.i. which has been working to track russian sentiment across internet message boards. and karine orlova is a former russian radio correspondent. great to have you both on to talk about this very important subject. i know this has been an ongoing discussion with guests i've had on this show. how do you get through to the russian people? how do you get the truth through to those who are brainwashed by the russian propaganda? and jonathan, i want to start with you on this topic because your company is gathering data from message boards and online forums about how russians see this war. you've looked at a lot of different topics from sanctions to casualties to military conscription. what is having the most impact on russian opinion? >> yeah. thanks. what we've seen really since the beginning of the war till late march was that certain features like casualties and the draft were persistently moving in negative directions. so we saw something like the sentiment toward the draft sink by about 200% in a negative direction. we also saw a similar sink with casualties. the war on the whole has been on the whole positive. and so it did take a little bit of a decrease by about 40% but bounced right back up. we've been seeing some of the issues, and this is illustrative of a lot of things that we look at, when we look at very hyperlocal data, is like how is something more particular about it like the draft, an element that brings it a little bit closer to home, where moms are starting to think about oh, will my son have to go to ukraine and die versus do i just generally support this war that vladimir putin has told us is good. so those are some aspects of it. and we see this similarly with safrkss. sanctions on the whole they've held relatively steady but when it comes down to particular items that have started to disappear there's a lot of negativity around that. but there's also a lot of geographic distinction such as what people in st. petersburg care about aren't the same as people out near late baikal where ulan uda is. there's different issues for them. on the whole what we're seeing is what breaks through are personal issues and ways in which this comes more directly into the everyday life of russians. >> that is what is getting to more russians and causing anxiety based on what your firm has found on these message boards. karine, at the beginning of the invasion putin passed this law imposing jail time up to 15 years for coverage critical of the, quote, military operation. so how are independent information sources getting through to russians about the reality of this invasion in ukraine? >> well, despite the fact that all the media, independent media in russia have been shut down including my own radio station, echo of moscow that was founded in 1990 and our tv channel and other newspaper, the internet still works in russia. and i know it's not a very popular thing to say, but i should say that the russians actually know what's going on. it would be delusional a little bit to think that russians, like millions, tens of millions of russians are completely -- you know, completely blind to what's going on. they do know what's going on. they do know that it's a war. and we know that they know from intercepted phone calls between russian soldiers who are in ukraine who talk to their wives and mothers and some of those phone calls are simply horrible. for instance, there was an investigation by radio free liberty where a wife tells her husband that he should go and rape ukrainian women and just, you know, keep her in the darks, she doesn't want to know about it but she encourages him to do that. so the russians do know. i know from people who still live in russia and i ask them, of course my friends don't support the war but all their neighbors and most of their friends support the war and they know it's the war. right? so i agree with jonathan completely. but the trust is a very important thing because the trust is horrible in russia regardless of war. no one wants to go in the russian army because it's so bad and you have a good chance to just be murdered there without any war. right? that's one thing. and also economic impact. when sanctions hit around russian economy, really bad. and ordinary people are going to feel it and see it in grocery stores. that's when things are going to start to change. but not before that. >> but i mean couldn't the russians then put their ire toward the west rather than putin? is that something that you are concerned about happening, karine? that as they start to feel the effects of the sanctions it could almost galvanize them in putin's favor even more and embolden them to turn against the west even more? >> that's a great point. and they actually do that now. but it's because they're not feeling it really bad right now. so there's a lot of talk about it because, you know, any expert would tell you that the russian economy is going to go down really soon. but ordinary people, they don't know much about the economy. they only can see crisis in grocery stores. and i don't know, gas prices, electricity prices. so now they are really blaming the west, but it's not going to last for long because it's going to pass. that's always how it works in russia. trust me. >> all right, jonathan, i want to bring you in because you sort of of alluded to this earlier, that overall the war is popular in russia. a recent poll taken by one of russia's most reputable independent pollsters found that nearly 70% of russians support putin's invasion. do you think that number has changed in the past few weeks, or is the polling coming out of russia just too unreliable across the board because people may be too afraid to share their real views about the war? >> well, you're absolutely right to call into question the reliability of this poll. polls have highly variable results in any case, in very good conditions, and when wire talking about in russia, when someone comes up and asks you do you support vladimir putin's war they know what the right answer is. so we would be shocked to see something that didn't show high levels of support. that being said, what we've seen on the data from our side which is kind of looking all across the country at local news, kind of local message boards, telegram groups, we're seeing that there was a decline through march but it kind of ticked back up. and honestly, i think that what we're seeing right now, the kind of data we're getting in over the last few days, is that it looks like ukraine and the messaging around that really kind of won march but april's a different question. i think russia is getting back in the game here and there are a lot of issues that are starting to tick back up. but something that karina said just very briefly here about the sanctions. she's absolutely right that these haven't bitten inside of russia actually on how those people are. and that's actually one of the places that we helped some people like go after and look at very closely. and helped them find ways to talk about that. to make the sanctions that were implemented, let's find ways to talk about them so that individuals can start to connect the dots between those sanctions and their life -- >> all right, jonathan teubner. thank you so much. i'm sorry we are out of time. i would love to continue this conversation. hope we will. hope you'll come back on the show to discuss. jonathan teubner, karine orlova, really a appreciate it. we'll be right back. construct. construction. there is a crack. oh god are you kidding me?! oh god... hi, aren't you tired of this? 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these straps are mind-blowing! they collect hundreds of data points like hrv and rem sleep, so you know all you need for recovery. and you are? i'm an investor...in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to... nasdaq 100 innovations like... wearable training optimization tech. uh, how long are you... i'm done. i'm okay. devastating floods in south africa have claimed nearly 450 lives and left dozens of people missing. officials from a province on the east coast say the storm that caused the flooding is one of the worst storms in south africa's history. housing settlements on steep slopes are still at risk of damage as well as bridges in low-lying areas. people are being evacuated to community halls schools. in the middle of russia's war ukrainians are desperate for small sources of comfort, no matter how fleeting. that is why musicians there are trying to lift the spirits of their fellow countrymen and women. cnn's rafael romo has been speaking with some of them. ♪ >> reporter: there was the orchestra that performed the concert for peace in the public square in the middle of the day in spite of the danger of an air strike. ♪ and the cellist who defied the invaders by playing his instrument in front of bombed-out buildings. ♪ and who can forget the little girl with the sweetest voice who made those around her forget they were in a bomb shelter. one by one singers and musicians in ukraine have defied the russians by using their talent to unite a nation and soothe a terrified population. >> we love singing. >> reporter: the most famous one is sviatoslav barachuk, better known as slava, who some call the ukrainian bruce springsteen. >> dignity and freedom are basic values. >> reporter: at the beginning of the invasion slava could have chosen to flee the country. instead -- he decided not only to stay but to visit terrified civilians like these people seeking shelter in the kharkiv subway station. you went to a subway station by yourself where there were many people and unannounced and you started singing. why did you do something like that? ♪ the whole idea, slava says, is to help people forget, even if it is for a fleeting moment, about the horror of war. >> imagine somebody like me comes and says hey, guys, everything is fine, let's sing together, let's have some fun. >> reporter: let's forget for a moment that we're at war. >> yeah. this is it. >> reporter: and so he's visited hospitals like this one in mykolaiv to cheer up victims of a rocket attack, survivors of an air strike at a train station in kramatorsk, and troops on the front lines. songs, slava says, are his answer to russian bullets. empathy and goodwill are more powerful than any bomb. >> ukrainians are one of the most -- the freest nations in the world. we have this gene of freedom in our dna. that's why probably many americans instinctively, intuitively support us now. >> reporter: in the streets people greet him and ask for pictures. slava happily obliges and takes the opportunity to give everybody the same message. everything will be all right. which happens to be the title of one of his songs. his most popular nowadays. ♪ "i hope that everything is going to be all right for everybody," the song says. "our time is going to come." rafael romo, cnn, lviv, ukraine. did i tell you i bought our car from carvana? yeah, ma. it was so easy! i found the perfect car, unr budget too! and i get seven days to love it or my money back... i love it! i thought online meant no one to help me, but susan from carvana had all thanswers. she didn't try to upsell me. not once, because they're not salespeople! what are you...? guess who just checked in on me? mom... susan from carvana! [laughs] we'll drive you happy at carvana. ♪ three times the electorlytes and half the sugar. ♪ pedialyte powder packs. feel better fast. that oddly satisfying feeling when you don't do it yourself. the republican national committee unanimously voted on thursday to withdraw from its participation in the commission on presidential debates. the organization that has long governed general election presidential debates. cnn has reached out to the commission for comment. in a statement rnc chairwoman ronna mcdaniel said the commission is, quote, biased and has refused to enact simple and common sense reforms to help ensure fair debates including hosting debates before voting begins and selecting moderators who have never worked for candidates on the debate stage. this isn't necessarily surprising. the commission drew a lot of disdain from then president donald trump and his campaign back in 2012. you'll probably recall they complained about debate moderators, the timing of debates and more. but this commission has existed since 1987. it was formed as a non-profit sponsored by both parties. and it has sponsored debates in every presidential election since 1988. so is this a preview of the midterms and 2024? for the record, while the r in. c claims it has not pulled out of future debates entirely, the statement and withdrawal raise serious questions about whether republicans are trying to manipulate the process and take control over something that's supposed to be impartial. and this decision, which only applies to the presidential debates, can also become a plausible excuse for my republican to pull out of any debate. remember, debates are supposed to be a public service. we've already seen some republicans in close and important races around the country refuse to participate in debates. in 2020 georgia senator david perdue was locked in a tight battle to hold on to his seat during a runoff election against jon ossoff. perdue declined to participate in the atlanta press club's debate against ossoff and was represented by an empty podium. perdue lost. and earlier this month georgia republican senate candidate herschel walker skipped the first major primary debate of his race. walker blamed a scheduling conflict, according to the "atlanta journal-constitution." is this the new norm, where pulling out of debates will prevent republicans from engaging in open and civil discourse? let's hope not. i booked our hotel on kayak. it's flexible if we need to cancel. cancel. i haven't left the house in years. nothing will stop me from vacation. no canceling. (laughs) flexibleancellation. kayak. search one and done. (driver 1) it's all you. (driver 2) no, i insist. (driver 1) it's your turn. (driver 2) nope, i think it's your turn. (driver 1) i appreciate you so much, thank you so much... go. (driver 2) i appreciate your appreciation. it fills me. (burke) safe drivers save money with farmers. (bystander) just for driving safely? (burke) it's a farmers policy perk. get farmers and you could get a safe driver discount simply for having a clean driving record for three years. (driver 3) come on! (driver 1) after you. (driver 2) after you. (drivers 1 and 2) safety first! (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪we are farmers.bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum♪ asya agulnik md: st. jude was founded with an understanding that no child should die in the dawn of life. to work with many partners all over the world, nothing stops in the way of us achieving that mission, not even war. marta salek md: when there is a need, people stand up and do what is right and ensure that they restart medical therapy as quickly as possible. carlos rodriguez-galindo md: any child suffering today of cancer is our responsibility. [singing] oven roasted cooold cuts cooold cuts if you're a small business, there are lots of choices when it comes to your internet and technology needs. but when you choose comcast business internet, you choose the largest, fastest reliable network. you choose advanced security. and you choose fiber solutions with speeds up to 10 gigs to the most small businesses. make your business future ready with the network from the most innovative company. get internet and voice for $49.99 a month with a 2-year price guarantee. and ask how to get up to a $650 prepaid card with a qualifying bundle. good evening. i'm pamela brown in washington. tonight on "cnn newsroom" -- not backing down. ukrainian forces in the besieged city of mariupol refuse to surrender to russia. also ahead, trying to live the american dream becoming a nightmare for first-time home buyers. a top realtor says don't give up hope. and a living legend. one of the last survivors of world war ii now writing about his missions in nazi germany. you're in the "cnn newsroom." >> if you survived, it was only a matter of sheer luck

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