could cross the alps into switzerland. you can hide in an attic like anne frank did. >> there is a lot wrong with that. we'll talk about it. and calls to change the nfl's overtime rules after a coin toss leads kansas city's victory over buffalo. what a great game, right? we'll discuss that with the legendary sportscaster bob costas. really great football weekend. we'll discuss that coming up. after turning to the democratic congressman of colorado led a congressional visit to ukraine in december and is fully briefed on the situation. so happy to have you on. good evening to you. you just came back from ukraine. a lot of americans may be wondering exactly how this could affect us here in the u.s. how would you explain that? what is the situation? thanks, don. i sit on both the armed services and intelligence committee and house of representatives and i did lead a bipartisan delegation to ukraine. i met with senior defense officials, ukrainian defense officials. the swag is very dire. i don't think we can under state that. we are on the brink of an eastern european war here and nascent democracy, a democracy that's been building, growing, been moving to the west and wants to continue democratizing is really at risk here. why this is important number one a threat to democracy anywhere is to democracy everywhere. no doubt about that. this is not an isolated case. russia is probing, testing the u.s. and nato alliance, testing democracy. our aulto caratic lead -- autocratic leaders are looking and watching and if we don't handle this right we could see a snowball effect around the world. >> 8500 u.s. troops on alert tonight. do you think having the troops nearby will do anything to deter putin? had secretary william cohen on earlier and he was saying putin feels like he has the upper hand at this point like let the games begin. >> it may not. we don't know. the oebl person who knows for sure what is going to happen is vladimir putin. if anyone comes on any show and says they know what's going to happen with any certainty they're not telling the truth. we don't know. what we do know is there is a very large chance at this point given all the indications we are seeing that there is going to be an invasion. i think the risk is very high of that although it is not certain. there is not one thing we can do that could stop that. there are many things we can do to change the calculus. we can pass in the house of representatives, in the senate, pass a comprehensive sanctions package. it would be very debilitating to the economy and vladimir putin supporters. we can reinforce the eastern flank of nato like the president is looking at doing. we can continue to send defensive munitions and supplies and equipment to ukraine. ukrainians are very willing to fight for themselves, ready to fight, but they don't have the tools yet to do that. we can do things like bolster cyber defenses as well. we are doing many of those things already. we can speed it up, expedite it, and of course do more. >> listen, we were, you know, not so long ago covering what happened if crimea -- unlike the situation with crimea russia is escalating the situation in front of everyone's faces. why do you think putin is so emboldened with this particular situation? >> well, you have to look back and see what motivates vladimir putin. this is a person who views the collapse of the soviet union as the greatest tragedy of the 20th century and wants to reconstruct the soviet union era, reconstruct that empire, and see the demise of u.s. democracy. that's what he lives for. this is the man who couldn't care less about delivering quality, affordable health care for the russian people. that is his goal and focus. he sees ukraine as the front line of that. if he can take ukraine over, if he can end the development of democracy in ukraine and if he can stop the advancement of nato it's a huge victory for him. he views that as essential to his legacy. >> president trump's former adviser on russia fiona hill has a new op-ed in the "new york times" that says, in part, i'll quote here, right now all signs indicate that mr. putin will lock the u.s. into an endless tactical game, take more chunks out of ukraine, and exploit all the frictions and fractures in nato and the european union. it's similarly what secretary cohen has said to me earlier. has putin had the upper hand all along? >> no. i agree with miss hill. she is absolutely right. that's always what putin does. that's always what russia does. that's their playbook. that is exactly what they're trying to do. we have to stop it with diplomacy, with getting our alliance together, with reaffirming nato by making sure we're doubling down on our support for ukraine. that's what's at stake here. we just can't allow that to happen. we have tools. we still have the greatest alliance structure in the history of mankind, truly. with nato and our other partners. so let's leverage that. let's circle our wag ons. let's get our partners on the same page. let's start sending the tools that ukraine needs to defend itself and let's do everything we can to change that balance right now that vladimir putin is trying to skew in his favor. >> we're doubly grateful to have you on considering what you know about ukraine and your visit. thank you, representative, we really appreciate you coming on. >> thank you. i want to turn to cnn's senior analyst laura coates the author of the new book "just pursuit a black prosecutor's fight for fairness." good evening and good to see you. let's talk about what's happening with january 6th with the election. the election of 2020. the georgia district attorney just got the green light to seat a special grand jury to investigate trump's efforts to overturn his 2020 loss in that state. the grand jury will be seated may 2nd and the da says she expects a charging decision in the first half of 2022. that is essentially a month. what does that tell you about her case? >> well, that tells me it is proceeding quite rapidly although i note we're talking about almost more than a year at this point since of course november 2020 election. but remember the special grand jury in georgia is distinct from what we think of if grand juries where you have an impaneled grand jury that then returns an indictment. apparently in fulton county it is really about giving the subpoena power, gravitas to say i'm going to aid in the investigation and be able to compel people who refused otherwise to cooperate and give information that way. so that vehicle is now opening up. now you have this majority of the fulton county judges saying you have got the green light there is some basis to believe they will actually be able to put the pieces together to at least be prepared for that criminal investigation in the form of an indictment down the road. >> this i found fascinating. that the former attorney general bill barr has been talking with the january 6 select committee. he resigned on december 23rd before the insurrection. in an interview with abc's jonathan karl, he called trump's claims of election fraud, quote, bull -- b.s., i've already said it. how do you see this playing out in this investigation? >> well, it wasn't really that telling to find the former attorney general had already cooperated, voluntarily essentially spoken with the committee. that tells you what should happen. though he did resign prior to the insurrection it was not until after the big lie had already begun. i want to make sure that timeline is correct for people to understand that the clocks and the gears were already in motion at that point in time which is really what in many respects prompted to and led up in part to the january 6 attack on the capitol. the idea that he was willing to provide information tells you what they, what he said even before leaving office there is no widespread voter fraud. there is no there there and any indication there was, was not justifying the hoped end result which is overturning the election. it is noteworthy somebody who was part of the government would say i will recognize a duly sworn in select committee to be able to answer questions to, that is really telling in and of itself. >> jonathan was on with anderson earlier and he said there were no hacked machines of venezuelan influence, none of that. and he said that. >> none of it. >> in the interview with jonathan karl. bill barr did. so also tonight we're learning the january 6 select committee is going to get access to e-mails from former trump lawyer john eastman, the guy who came up with the scheme for mike pence to overturn the election on january 6th. how important could this be for the investigation? >> let's add an adjective the ridiculous, absurd, unlawful scheme to try to overturn the election, the will of the people, and electoral college as well. so the fact that he, who you know in recent weeks has tried to sue and block the actual subpoenas introducing his telephone data and other respects because he believed that this was not a legitimate exercise of legislative authority on behalf of the select committee and that his fourth amendment rights to privacy were being violated. of course this all goes back to the idea of remember the person who was really the last line of ideological defense here was the then vice president mike pence who decided not to go along and take the advice that was erroneous in the first instance. now remember he doesn't have the same protection he had even a week ago when you've got the supreme court now saying anyone who is interested in trying to raise a privilege claim, no. it is no longer valid. there is an overwhelming interest in the public's ability to get the information, have transparency. and so this is not boding well for anyone who wants to put up additional road blocks. what we might learn from his data, he has told through his attorney, that the person he was acting on behalf of was then president trump. that's extraordinary at this point in time. one of the first indications we have where someone is saying they're acting at the direction or in the representation of donald trump. that is a really big connection to make for this committee. >> and tonight's edition of elections have consequences. i want to get your take on the supreme court announcing today it is going to consider race based affirmative action in college admissions. what is at stake in this case, laura? >> what is at stake is again the disruption of precedent that has been many years in the making. i think people just think that affirmative action is the equivalent of a quota but that is not the law of the land and the supreme court. it's about race conscious admissions. it is about a holistic review of somebody's admission into a university or college in this country. and so the same person who's been trying or same organization has been trying to reintroduce this topic to the supreme court year after year. finally now gets his wish. and the only thing different between what happened in the previous cases or even the texas case a few years ago was the composition of the court. that should tell people about the notion of the only thing that stand between you and understanding and being able to follow precedent is who was on the supreme court, then what value does precedent truly have in the long run? i'm not saying it is a foregone conclusion it will be overturned but the very notion that the supreme court who takes a minutia of the cases that come before them is repeatedly revisiting this issue of affirmative action, a well settled principle in our society, is really telling about just how important it is to be a able to be in the position of the president of the united states and nominate those for the supreme court or maybe a senate majority leader and block one's nomination to the court t is very consequential and it plays in day in and day out every day in this country and yet again with precedent. >> laura coates, thanks as always. appreciate it. >> thank you, don. a disgraceful speech from a member of one of america's most influential political families suggesting people who refuse to be vaccinated are worse off than anne frank. there are people out there who believe his outrageous b.s. flies. how can anybody think that's okay? ♪ "how bizarre" by omc ♪ no annual fee on any discover card. ♪ ♪ you don't get much time for yourself. so when you do, make it count with crest pro-health. it protects the 8 areas dentists check for a healthier mouth. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. crest. as a professional bull-rider i'm used to taking chances. but when it comes to my insurance i don't. i use liberty mutual, they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wooo, yeaa, woooooo and, by switching you could even save 665 dollars. hey tex, can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. yeah. only pay for what you need. ♪ 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f. kennedy jr. said at an anti-vaccine rally this weekend. >> it's been the ambition of every totalitarian state from the beginning of mankind to control every aspect of behavior, of conduct, of thought, and to obliterate dissent. none of them have been able to do it. they didn't have the technological capacity. even in hitler's germany you could cross the alps into switzerland. you could hide in an attic like anne frank did. >> so anne frank died in a concentration camp after hiding in an attic from nazis for 761 days. joining me now cnn political commentator and the founder and washington correspondent for puck news. hi. to both of you. good evening. all right. here we go. peter, you first. rfk jr. comparing vaccine mandates to natty germany using a tragic story of a young girl who died in the holocaust as a political tool. why would anybody think it is okay to make this particular comparison? >> i don't know. obviously it dishonors the memory of the dead in the holocaust. but the thing that frightens me even more than that is the -- this insane perception he has about the relationship between individuals and the government of the united states. the government of the united states for all of its very serious problems is not a totalitarian government. and to have a major prominent figure describe it that way suggests a really kind of profound paranoia and breakdown in trust between large segments of the american population and the government. a certain skepticism of government is absolutely essential but this kind of insane paranoia that you think the u.s. government is literally trying to hunt everyone down and make them sick and kill them suggests something disturbing about the situation in our political debate. >> unfortunately, this has become a pattern now. we've seen congresswoman marjorie taylor greene make comparisons like this. we have seen people, you know, the jewish space lasers, right, people wearing stars of david like the ones the jews were forced to wear in germany. at school board meetings, protesting the vaccines with that sort of stuff. i could go on but millions of people died in the holocaust. millions of lives have been saved from vaccines. make this make sense, please. >> well, i can't. and you're right in that it's become a pattern and no matter how many times these people are corrected, having to get a life saving vaccine in order to voluntarily use a gym or voluntarily go into a restaurant, is not the same as industrialize, slaughter of an entire people. you know, i'm sure your viewers understand that but the people who need to be convinced are probably not watching tonight unfortunately. and in their informational universe this has clearly become a very powerful trope where they feel themselves to be the victims. it's also one of those things where, you know, this rally happened he don't what, half mile, maybe less from the u.s. holocaust museum on the national mall in d.c. you know, i think it is yet another case of a little bit of knowledge being more dangerous than no knowledge at all. >> it's -- anyway, peter, just a few days ago -- >> also, may i -- >> go ahead. >> sorry. the other thing that, i mean, this one really galled me. the other ones i've kind of, you know, like most jewish people, somebody who has lost dozens of family members in the holocaust, but none so far to the covid vaccine. i'm sure that number will stay at zero. i found this one especially galling because it came out said just a few days after we found out who had given up anne frank's family to the nazis and why she was sent eventually, why they were found and sent to a confidence ep be trump administration camp where she died of a terrible disease just before being, she could have been liberated. and the fact is that it was a jewish family that gave her up. and it again illustrated what an awful, horrible situation the nazis created where people had to make these kinds of choices where either they lived or somebody else died. and, you know, using this as a political cudgel, that doesn't make sense in any way, is just, you know, insult to injury >> i was going to add similarly with the question to peter because this is just a few days ago we had the four jews held hostage in the texas synagogue, right, peter, the fbi reporting nearly 55% of all hate crimes motivated by religious bias against jews in 2020. all sorts of high profile people have been spreading conspiracies about insane things again like jewish space lasers and all kinds of crazy things. rhetoric has consequences even the folks involved in the synagogue incident said that the dangerous rhetoric had consequences and that it influenced this man to do what he it can. >> yeah. i think it is a good point. that man who committed that terrible crime of holding those people hostage in colleyville, texas was also enthralled to a conspiracy theory and literally thought if he found the synagogue closest to where this convicted terrorist was being held that he could somehow trade her freedom for the freedom of the rabbi and the people. it speaks to something, he was in britain but it speaks to something really a global phenomenon in which, you know, utterly absurd conspiracy theories, extremely dangerous and often hateful conspiracy theories spread and they don't only live online in facebook groups but actually lead a certain number of people to take terrible, terrible actions. one can imagine it wouldn't take much to imagine someone listening to rfk jr. and then saying, well gosh. if the u.s. government is a totalitarian government enacting a holocaust surely i need to do something to fight that and picking up a gun and killing someone god forbid. so this is the danger that happens when you spread these kinds of things. >> i am so happy to have you both on. thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> thank you. i want to turn now to something that is disappointing to some but happier news, quite a bit different and happier, the nfl season is back in full force. multiple games coming down to the wire. i mean, my heart was racing this weekend. and now there's all sorts of griping about the overtime rules including you see there bob costas. he's here. he's next. luckily, there's biotrue hydration boost eye drops. biotrue uses naturally inspired ingredients. and no preservatives. try biotrue! king c. gillette is a complete lineup of tools and facial hair care products. this is the style master. designed to style your stubble in one stroke, a pivoting metal head that defines every edge, and three comb lengths for added versatility. one tool that helps you choose, change, and master your style. king c. gillette ♪ life can be a lot to handle. ♪ this magic moment ♪ but heinz knows there's plenty of magic in all that chaos. ♪ so different and so new ♪ ♪ was like any other... ♪ when you really need to sleep you reach for the really good stuff. new zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. it's 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testimony today in the federal civil rights trial of three former minneapolis police officers who were on duty with derek chauvin when he murdered george floyd in may, 2020. all three are charged with depriving floyd of his rights for allegedly failing to give him medical aid. two of the defendants are also charged with failing to intervene to stop chauvin from kneeling on floyd's neck. i want to bring in now cnn's josh campbell. josh, good evening to you. tell us what we heard today in court. >> don, for the second time in less than a year a jury in the united states sat in a courtroom watching the gut wrenching video of george floyd being held down on the ground by a police officer for over nine minutes. the officer who was kneeling on him derek chauvin obviously as we reported on was convicted of state murder charges but our viewers will also remember that after that incident the fbi launched its own investigation. federal prosecutors ultimately determining that in their view those other three officers who were standing nearby violated george floyd's civil rights. that trial kicking off today. the prosecution laying out their case saying that these officers should have rendered medical aid to george floyd two of them also having been charged with failing to intervene. we're getting a sense finally of some of the strategies we expect these defendants will employ particularly the idea two of the officers were relatively new, they were rookies saying they were deferring to the senior officer who had been on the job for over two decades. of course we expect a lot more evidence, witnesses. the trial likely going on for about four weeks. >> let's talk about the prosecution telling jurors the fundamental guidelines. you mentioned guidelines as well but the fundamental guideline of the minneapolis police department which is in your custody, in your care. it reminded me of something that i heard when i did my interview with the jurors from the derek chauvin trial. this is what sherry belton hardman told me about their deliberations. watch this. >> we did look through everything very, very carefully. what i thought about is something that was said during the trial, and that is minneapolis police department has a model. if i understand it correctly their model is in our custody in our care. george floyd was in their custody. he was never in their care. and that for me just hit hard. i don't feel like they ever cared for him. >> so, josh, i want to be clear. that was an entirely different trial. this is an entirely different trial and different jurors but will that fact be as critical in this trial? >> absolutely. that appears to be the case. that senior officer derek chauvin has already pleaded guilty to federal charges so we are looking at the three other officers who did not intervene prosecutors say. that is the crux of the issue. since the death of george floyd, since his murder, one key issue we've all learned about and throughout this trial that took place is that an officer has a duty to actually care for the person that is in their custody. now, officers can employ deadly force under certain circumstances but even if an officer employs deadly force when there is no longer a threat they then have to treat and care for the person that they are responsible for. there is no indication we learned in the state trial that george floyd warranted deadly force but that gets to the key issue. i'll read part of what the prosecutor said today in opening statement. she said each of the three officers made a conscious choice over and over again. they chose not to intervene and stop chauvin as he killed a man. they chose not to protect george floyd, the man they handcuffed. the charges here failing to render medical aid to george floyd as he lay on the pavement gets to the key issue you heard from that juror, don. that is what we expect prosecutors to continue to talk about that when george floyd was not a threat to those officers they were responsible for him. certainly as we saw in the state trial this didn't warrant the type of force that ultimately took his life. >> josh campbell, appreciate it. we'll be right back. >> thanks. 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(robert) thank you. subaru. more than a car company. football fans was this the weekend you've been waiting for? a. from coast to coast, americans are fired up over upset wins or devastated by coin toss induced losses this weekend. i don't know about that. we'll see. joining me now legendary sportscaster and cnn contributor bob costas. bob, i don't know if i want to say that it is, you know, coin toss inducing losses because you win or you lose. but hello to you. all of this drama. >> hi. >> all of the excitement from the past weekend games had me screaming. i was traveling. i'm sure the people in the next room to me thought i was crazy. oh, my gosh, wow! maybe they were watching as well. what made it such an incredible weekend for the nfl? all the upsets right? >> well, yeah. and the three or four home teams losing and almost a fourth kansas city pulled it out. one thing that should be obvious about the nfl, part of its appeal is that unlike basketball, baseball, hockey where you have to get to a seventh game for there to be do or die for both teams, every playoff game in the nfl is the equivalent of a seventh game in the other sports. it is all do or die. you go home even if you lose by the narrowest of margins. so it was an incredible weekend. everything decided right on the last play. so in a sense it was insanely good. but i'll tell you what else is insane, don. >> hold on. hold on. it was insane that aaron rodgers performed so poorly in lambeau field and tom brady lost. i know what you'll talk about. this overtime rule. >> brady had a great comeback. but lost. the packers had the bye. they had home field. no greater home field advantage than lambeau and they lose to the 49ers who had to beat the rams at the end of the regular season to qualify, then they went to dallas and won a nail biter and then they go to green bay. they have earned the position they are in now which is to go back and play the rams in los angeles again for a trip to the super bowl. >> this overtime rule. i know you want to talk about it. what do you want to say? >> i do. you've watched me long enough, don. i have opinions but i am not one of these hot take guys like on the cable debate shows in sports. what i say now is a considered opinion. the overtime rule in the nfl in the postseason, forget the regular season, is the dumbest rule in all of american sports. this is a league that will examine a replay from six different angles in a game in october between the jets and the jaguars. they'll parce things to the millimeter. they'll freeze frames and wait for ten minutes. they'll measure within an inch for a first down. and then in the most important games of the year including the super bowl, they'll flip a coin and have something that random so disproportionately influence the outcome. on its face it is completely unfair. but it is also against the true drama. wouldn't you have liked to have seen mahomes and allen duel? the clock doesn't matter in a sudden death situation. there's no ties so they'll play forever. clock management, the battle against time is part of the essence of the strategy and the excitement and the drama and the tension of football at its best. >> okay, bob costas. >> it's completely taken away with this. >> i totally disagree with you mr. expert. i totally disagree with you because those are the rules and this is why i don't like to watch soccer. because i'm like when is this going to be over? at some point it has to be over. we watch them battle for four quarters and overtime. i don't need to see much more. it was amazing. my heart couldn't take much more. those are the rules. the only time we hear about the rules that needed to be changed -- >> how did you wait through the first three hours? ordinarily if someone says in the abstract we hit a stop light at this intersection or there will be an accident, there have to be a few fender benders for people who aren't paying attention to say i guess you're right. >> oh, bob. >> in this case this rule was predictable these things would happen but it keeps happening. >> people rooting for buffalo want the rules to be changed. the people -- >> nothing to do with it. i have no rooting interest. it is a stupid rule to begin with. it happened to drew breese. it happened twice to aaron rodgers. it happened to mahomes against brady. it happened to matt ryan against brady in a super bowl. here it is happening again to aaron rodgers twice. consecutive post seasons. never touched the ball. this rule is like in the seventh game of the world series in the top of the tenth the visiting team scores on a home run game over. if they score on a single or sacrifice fly the home team gets to bat the bottom of the tenth. it's insane. it cuts into the drama. it's on its face unfair. >> a game that is offense and defense. if you don't want them to score you put up a good defense. so look. >> you tell me if you won the coin toss would you ever choose to kick and just play defense? >> no. >> you'd only lose. >> look, it's a game first of all. let's not get carried away. >> yeah it's a game. >> also like family feud when if people get the thing, they always say pass or play. they always want to play. it is what it is. i've seen people, i've seen games where the people who received first have lost. they have lost. >> yes. >> because of the other team having a better defense. >> it is a huge advantage to take the ball. if you had a hundred coin flips under this rule there will never be a time when the team that won the flip did anything other than receive. i'll tell you this. >> i got to go. >> if steve harvey was the commissioner, steve harvey would know and agree with me, don. >> all right. i got to go. thank you, bob. i appreciate it. >> bye, pal >> i see your humble brag with all those emmys behind you over your head. >> i did try to frame it this way. face time. >> thank you bob. see you later. from a role model as america's dad to time in prison over sexual assault charges it's been a huge downfall for bill cosby. we'll talk about that next. so r what you need, and we gotta do it fast. 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(throws punch) our new virtual classes were designed for you and millions of seniors like you. you can now choose from thousands of live virtual classes every week. get moving wherever you have an internet connection. and when you're ready, enjoy access to thousands of locations nationwide. with silversneakers, you're free to move. enroll today at no additional cost by visiting getsilversneakers dot com. what happens when you block heartburn with one prilosec otc in the morning? heartburn doesn't stand a chance - day... or night. excess stomach acid can cause heartburn. prilosec otc works differently by preventing excess acid production. so don't fight heartburn, block it. prilosec otc. one pill in the morning blocks heartburn, all day and all night. this month's show time is releasing a new four-part docu-series looking at the man who was once known as america's dad before his disgrace and downfall at the height of the me too movement. >> do not edit this. a holot of people know because u can't do what he did, unless you have other people supporting what you're doing. >> the girl would drink it and, hello. >> bill cosby had been one of my heroes. i'm a black man, stand-up comic, i was born in the '70s. but this? >> the accusations just keep coming in. >> reporter: this was complicated. how do we talk about bill cosby? >> uh-uh. >> it's complex, kamau. you know? >> so, so, so interesting. w. kamau bell joins me now. he is director of "we need to talk about cosby." kamau, thank you for joining. listen, it is so funny, i was having a meeting with producers, what would you like to talk about? and i said, look, y'all know we need to talk about cosby. and then all the sudden, seriously, two days later, your trailer drops saying we need to talk about cosby. very similar experiences as you. like a lot of americans or america, you grew up idolizing bill cosby. i did, as well. and then, it got a lot more complicated. why did you want to make this doc? >> i mean, i think i was having those conversations about bill cosby. first of all, my whole life. i don't remember a time in my life when there wasn't bill cosby from fat albert all the way through the stand-up cosby himself, the cosby show. i was like in the heart of his career, and i was a kid assort sort of being raised by this man through the television. once we found out all that i believe of him sexually assaulting and raping women. i just -- with a lot of people trying to figure out how do we deal with those of us who feel it on the inside and really feel like he is part of our spirit, our cultural dna, but also how do you reckon with that and what we know now? >> well, it's interesting because, um, you know, you had the spanish five clip in there. and that is not the only thing in there. i mean, in this documentary. um, so, a reminder to the audience. bill cosby was released from prison last summer when the pennsylvania supreme court overturned his conviction for sexual assault but he has been accused of sexual assault and related crimes by more than 60 women. did you figure out how he could have become that person, and then hidden it for decades? >> i mean, i think, you know, this is not a story that is just about bill cosby. it's about sort of how you -- how does somebody like that do what they do over those years and a lot of it is that there are structures in place in the entertainment industry and through the media that allow that to flourish. he is not the only one. all over my instagram and twitter people saying what about all these other people? like, you know, harvey weinstein and all these -- it's like, yeah, he's not the only one but it doesn't mean we can't have a conversation about him. >> we all remember his character. i mean, dr. huxtable. that was -- you know, dr. huxtable. we, black families, right? we idolized that and we, you know, finally were like, oh, this is great. finally, someone that represents educated-black people on tv, and not just jj from good times. not that there is anything wrong with jj walker and -- and what they did. look, they fed their families and took care of business the way they had to but the huxtables, we look up to. this is from your show. we'll talk about the huxtables. watch this. >> you remember what his job was on the show? >> bill cosby's? >> yeah. >> oh, cliff huxtable, he was a pediatrician. >> he was an ob/gyn. >> that's right. he delivered babies. oh, my god. oh, my god. >> do you remember [ inaudible ] was? >> the house? >> yes, in the basement of the house. his office was in the basement of the house. >> oh. god. >> bill cosby controlled every single aspect of that show. so i have no doubt in my mind that he chose what dr. huxtable's medical specialty would be. >> he could have been a dentist, for crying out loud. but you weren't. you were an ob/gyn. >> his character bringing women to his home where he is going to examine them -- it's -- it's -- it's outrageous. >> explain. talk to me about those reactions, kamau. >> i mean, i think it's -- when we started -- when i started working on this, there was stuff that sort of appeared to me, and when i started studying his career that sort of stood out whuns we think about what we know about him now and one of those things was about the fact that -- that cliff huxtable is an ob/gyn with an office in his house, which just seems like a crazy job to pick if you are bill cosby doing what you're doing behind the scenes. and i -- i realized a lot of people didn't realize that. so, a lot of this doc is really -- just like united shades, it is based on conversation, based on reaction. so i would actually show clips of the cosby show to get people to react to them and that one never failed to get people to go i didn't realize that it was right in front of our faces. >> we have to do this, i believe. because there are a lot of people out there who say well, how do you separate the artists, right, or the characters or the art from the man? because i mean, look. "the cosby show" was a brilliantly done show. it changed the culture and it has a place in history. how do you separate -- how do you reconcile that? do you still watch t"the cosby show"? should it still be on a lot of people's paychecks, you know what i am saying? >> i think the way i approach this is that you can do whatever you want to and we all do that every day. we all separate the art from the artist. you see it in music all the time. the fact is that if i feel like i am going to deal with the art, i have to also deal with the man. so i can -- i can maybe pull up a clip of the cosby show and enjoy it because it celebrated a lot of black excellence but i can't let that make me forget about the man. i think you have to deal with the whole story, which is what that doc is trying to do. >> yeah. it's fascinating. kamau, thank you. brilliantly done. brilliantly done, as usual. i appreciate it. don't miss the new doc you series by w. caw mau bell, we need to talk about cosby. you can catch it on show time beginning january 30th. thanks to kamau, and thank you for watching. our coverage continues. a new kitchen became part of our financial plan. ♪ ♪ find a northwestern mutual advisor at nm.com new vicks vapostick. strong soothing vapors... help comfort your loved ones. for chest, neck, and back. it goes on clear. no mess just soothing comfort. try new vicks vapostick. you're a printer, you're supposed to print!!!! uuuuuu! i mean is it the cartridges? i don't know! magenta! do you suffer from cartridge conniptions? be conniption-free, thanks to the cartridge-free epson ecotank printer. a ridiculous amount of ink! and a set of replacement bottles are equal to about 80 cartridges. it's a perfect cure for-- i thought you said you bought--- i did buy the magenta! the epson ecotank. just fill & chill. available at. ♪ when you have nausea, ♪ ♪ heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach... ♪ ♪ diarrheaaaa.♪ try pepto bismol with a powerful coating action. for fast and soothing relief. pepto bismol for fast relief when you need it most. 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