Transcripts For CNN The Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer 20240709

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prosecution but disappointment and there was relief for the defense. >> kyle rit enshtenhouse is a f man. acquitted on all fuf counts. >> is there anyone that does not agree with the verdict? >> defense attorney saying the wait for a verdict had been torture torture but clintent is relieve. he wants to get on with his life. he has a hunl ge sense of relie for what the jury did for him today. he wish this never would have happened. but as he said when he received, he did not start this. >> the prosecutor responding while we're disappointed with the verdict, it must be respected. the family of one of the victims anthony hubert, saying we are heart broken and angry. >> we love you, hannah. >> his girlfriend spoke outside the court. >> we know that this is stum is a failure. >> yep. >> i think the question that most of us are feeling right now is what can we do next? >> the governor has called for calm as a small crowd in ken oecha ckenosha continues to react to the news: >> a spokesman for the rittenhouse family echoed the plea for peace. >> the family -- we call for calm. calls for calm. i mean, this was not an injustice. >> the unanimous decision did not come swiftly. weighing a life sentence for 18-year-old rittenhouse, the jury deliberated for four full days before delivering the verdict. >> members of the jury, it is for you to determine whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty of each of the offenses. >> you're going to die! >> the jury ultimately had to answer one question -- did rittenhouse kill two men and maim another as a form of vigilante justice or self-defense? the defense seized on the testimony of the video. it shows he shot and destroyed his right bicep in the may lay, still the survivor gave perhaps the most compelling argument that rittenhouse was acting in self-defense. >> when you were standing three to five feet from him with your arms up in the air, he never fired? right? >> correct. >> it wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him with your gun, now your hand is down pointed at him that he fired. right? >> correct. >> an attorney for gauge sent off a statement about today and was very disappointed, heart broken over the verdict today because she is representing one of the clients who was shot by kyle rittenhouse saying that while today's verdict means that justice is delayed. it will not be denied. wolf? >> i want you to stay with us and bring in our team of experts. our chief legal analyst joins us, jeffrey toobin and laura coates. laura, this jury found kyle rittenhouse not guilty on all charges. what is your reaction? >> you know, honestly not surprised by the ultimate verdict in this kachlcase. the prosecution had a very hard road ahead of them. the threshold in wisconsin for establishing self-defense made it such that prosecution had to disprove that kyle rittenhouse's belief he was in fear of his life or grave bodily harm was somehow unreasonable. and he gave very compelling testimony when he testified on the stand. he said the prosecution had to try to disprove that. remember, the jury instructions here are so key, wolf. not only did they talk about having the jury have to view through kyle rittenhouse's eyes, not monday morning quarterback, or hindsight of the jury, but also the idea of notion of did he do everything he could to try to escape even if his presence with the ar-15 was somehow provication? i think the prosecution had a very uphill battle trying to overcome not only the burden of proof but also the burden of persuasion in this case. >> joey, what is your analysis of this verdict? >> yeah, this was the battle two of narratives, really. you had the narrative of the prosecution. this was an inter loper. he came into town with bad intentions. he was fancying himself a police officer. he was fancying himself a emergency medical technician and set off a deadly chain of events that were avoidable. they honed in on the facts and asked the critical questions. was he in immediate fear of death or serious bodily injure as to each and every person he exercised self-defense on? was his use of force proportionate to the threat posed? and number three, did he act reasonably under the circumstances? the defense also painted this very mob like environment, right, their words, not mine, rioters around, mayhem, confusion, volatilitien that was in the context in which they wrap up his conduct that is kyle rittenhouse and that is something that the jury accepted. last point, the last point is that i was one who believed in the event the jurors concluded he acted in self-defense as to every single victim. they would then other wuz not even get into the lesser included, they would just completely acquit him. that's what they did. it is not a shocking verdict at all. given the circumstances and the evidence as it came out in the courtroom, wolf. >> it was sort of complicated, jeffrey, to those of us who followed it. are you surprised it was not guilty across the board? that he wasn't found guilty on the lesser charges? >> i'm not surprised about the homicide. i'm somewhat surprised about reckless endangerment. i thought this was a strong case on reckless endangerment. the facts were a big problem as they always are in a courtroom which on the three people he shot. one of them was chasing him. the other one hit him with a skateboard. the third one pulled a gun on him. those facts were very difficult for the prosecution to refute as a -- on the issue of self-defense. in a larger sense though, what is especially troubling about this entire case is the way the right-wing in this country made hero of this kid who never should have been there in the first place. i mean we now know this is a tragedy not a crime. but it sure is a tragedy and the idea that 17-year-olds with no training should be going to se sc scenes like this with giant guns is a terrible message to send to the country. >> he armed himself with this ar-15 style rifle and inserted himself into the protests. but how much did that actually factor into today's verdict? >> you know, it doesn't factor into the ability of the prosecutor to actually meet their burden. you can't essentially tell the jury he had no business being there. that is it. you're talking about the notion of a gun culture in wisconsin that is not synonymous with crime. the idea that you can possess a gun and not be transformed into a criminal is what the prosecution has to actually thread a needle around. how not to alienate a gun owning community and also prove that the strongest argument they brought through in closing, the idea of him possibly being an act you have shooter. that is the strongest way of threading that needle and saying, look, someone had a right to self-defense that day. the people responding to somebody who had shot and killed somebody. so do you forfeit your life if you try to do -- act heroically and stop an active shooter? that is the main theme on the closing. the problem is they still had to overcome that burden of persuasion and burden of proof to show that he did not act reasonably with the perceived chaos. final thing here. remember, the jury is from the community. they also recall not what -- a little more than happened a year ago. they probably have their own viewpoints about the chaos that ensued. their own perceptions and whether they themselves would have armed themselves. you have the community angle of it. you have the idea of the active shooter not being persuasive enough. and the idea he had no business being there, that simply was not enough to move the needle. >> sayrah, you're there. whacht what is the reaction that you're seeing? >> it's very calm tonight. throughout this trial, though, every single day there have been protesters who would come to the steps right on the steps of the court right up to the doors of the court. every day. you would see that about two dozen people at max. some of them were there to decry what they believed kyle rittenhouse did. some of them were there to support kyle rittenhouse. there was every day the uncle of jacob blake who was here. people were like why was he here? the protests were in jacob blake's name. and when some of the protests turned to riots, he was there to talk about and to remember the two people killed and the person injured who were there out some of them protesting in the name of jacob blake. and so you saw this every single day. it never got violent. there were a couple small incidents that police were right on and took care of right away. the sheriff's department. and there were folks who were out here two or three of them who came out armed. one of them with an ar-15 style rifle. he was told to put that away. it has been calm. this whole trial there has been noise but there has been the first amendment right of those people to protest, nothing beyond that has happened. wolf? >> jeffrey, rittenhouse was very emotional today hearing the not guilty verdicts. he broke down and started to cry. but a lot of us remember he also broke down while he was testifying on the stand. did that resonate, do you believe, with the jury that a 17-year-old at the time now 18-year-old was actually crying? >> in a criminal case, whenever the defendant takes the stand, it usually doesn't happen, most defendants don't take the stand, it becomes by far the most important evidence in the case. and i think it is -- it was clear then and clear now that rittenhouse was an effective witness. i don't know about the crying being so significant. but the fact that he could describe the threat he felt from each of the three people he shot was very important i you this for the jury and the prosecutors in cross-examinationing him didn't have the kind of material that they needed, false statements, other bad acts, a criminal record. they didn't have those -- that cross-examination material and the jury obviously embraced rittenhouse's story. >> he's free right now, joey. he's a free man. acquitted on all counts. potentially he could still face some other legal problems down the road. right? >> it's a potential that he could. i mean, it would mostly be in the civil context. can you look to sue him, the victims from a civil perspective? the civil cases involve mothey involve liberty and the standard of proof is different. the standard did you probably engage in some type of wrongdoing as opposed to did you do it beyond a reasonable doubt? so that's the thing. we're also calls for a department of justice investigation to see what if any federal charges could be potentially likely. i don't see that as a viable outcome given the federal statutes and remember you can carry a gun across state lines if it's legal to do so or possess the gun in your state or in the state that you go to. i'm sure the feds will vet that in addition to his age and if there is something there they'll pursue that as well. we'll have to wait and see in the dawes ahead. >> we certainly will. thank you. just ahead, we're getting more reaction right now to the rittenhouse verdict. i'll speak with the attorney for the family of jacob blake, the man who saw police involved shooting and set off the protests in kenosha, wisconsin, last year. stay with us. you're in "the situation room." t ride the wave? 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>> i don't think the blake family is surprised. just like many americans, there is two different justice systems in this country. one for african-americans and there is one for the rest including the police department. so, you know, i think what we just witnessed was an illusion of how the real judicial system is supposed to play out. so unfortunately when you have such an illusion as far as picking 20 jurors in one day and expect that they're not to be bias, that still exists in that jury pool. when you come to the verdict, i don't think there is really a cause to be surprised about the outcome. >> kyle rittenhouse, as you know, was not guilty on all charges today and the ploufr who shot jacob blake face d no charges and returned to active duty. what does that say to you about the justice system? >> it says we have a lot of work to do. there is one positive take away from this rittenhouse trial. i that i is only that he was actually charged. in the jacob blake shooting he shot seven times, walking away, officer never had to even stand a day in court. so i think that goes to show the testament of where we're at. it goes to show how much work we have to do. i think more importantly, you know, for all the supporters of jacob blake, all the individuals across this country who stood in solidarity with the blake family, i think it's important to know that social justice is not a moment but it's a movement. and we still have a lot of work to do and myself, attorney ben crump and civil rights lawyers in this country have to come together and restrategize as to how we're going to address these issues going forward. >> the family of anthony huber, one of the men killed by rittenhouse says in a statement, i'll read it, "today's verdict sends the unacceptable message that arms civilians can show up at any town incite violence and then use the danger to justify shooting people in the street." do you agree? does this embolden, do you believe, others to follow rittenhouse's example? >> yes. i think this is a very, very dangerous precedent that has been set. i mean as an attorney in the state of wisconsin along with georgia and texas, i believe that it's important that we have clear standards in be able to hold individuals accountable for engaging and provoking situations. i think that you don't see the same thing occur when it's african-americans. i mean, hey, i hate to make this about race. but it is about race. when is the last time that we have seen an african-american in a highly publicized case, you know, not charged when having to use deadly force? that doesn't happen. so again, i mean this is a dangerous precedent when one can come from another state and engage in activities that don't effect him at all or asked or required to be there and he ends up shooting and killing two individuals and shooting a third and injuring him. this is a complete dangerous precedent and i think we definitely have a lot of work to do to change it. >> thank you so much for joining us. >> absolutely. thank you, wolf. >> thank you. coming up, critical win for president biden's domestic agenda after the house of representatives passes his landmark spending bill. stay with us. you're in "the situation room." your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious infections and blood clots, sometimes fatal, have occurred... ...as have certain cancers, including lymphoma, and tears in the stomach or intestines, and changes in lab results. your doctor should monitor your bloodwork. tell your doctor about any infections... and if you are or may become pregnant while taking rinvoq. take on ra. talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save on rinvoq. 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that is terrible. >> he could have -- all the people -- they were very angry. it's common sense, john. it's common sense that you're supposed to protect -- how can you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, right? how can you pass on a fraudulent bill to congress? >> as you reported in the book, what stood out to you, john, about mr. trump's level of responsibility for that deadly attack and his actual lack of remorse? >> first in that interview down in mar-a-lago, wolf, i was struck by how fondly donald trump looks back on that day. he really does see january 6th as one of the greatest days of his presidency. he thinks he looked out. he told me it was the biggest crowd he had ever spoken before. he told me there were more than a mullon peillion people there. that was not true. there was a big crowd and came from all over the country. they came to fight for him in his eyes in a way that he felt a lot of republicans around him weren't fighting. he said that it was marred a little bit later on. but it is striking. this book, what i tried to do is to demonstrate you had a buildup to that moment. donald trump set the conditions in place and worked to undermine american democracy in it a very fundamental way and the culmination of it was january 6th. this was not something that happened overnight. he worked long and hard to bring that about. >> you also report in your new book, "betrayal" that, former white house chief of staff mark meadows actual e-mailed the vice president's office with a dee tailed plan to try to overturn the presidential election. he says trump should become the house speaker if republicans win back the house of representatives in next year's midterm election. d what did you learn about meadow's role around the january 6th attack and what is he up to now? >> meadows is a central figure in all of this. that memo was sent to the vice president's chief of staff on new year's eve. it outlined in detail, written by jenna ellis, a campaign lawyer, and it outlined in detail how joe budiden's electi could be overturned beginning with pence throwing out the electoral votes in six states. but meadows is at the center of so much of this. i learned also that, you know, meadows is the one that set up that phone call, the secretary of state in georgia. and when he got in touch with him about doing this call and staffer got in touch with meadows, he was very upset. he said i've been trying to get ahold of you. i sent 18 different message that's have not been returned. and it turned out that he had been getting messages from a g-mail account mark meadows. he thought it was a prafnk message. this is how that committee needs to get more information about what meadows was up to. he was using a g-mail account and he was, you know, getting ahold of local officials trying to overturn the election? there is a lot more i uncovered a lot about mark meadows. will i'm convinced there is much more to get. >> you've done amazing reporting in this new book. let me ask you about how then senate majority leader mitch mcconnell actually approached inauguration day. how worried was mitch mcconnell about what former president trump might do to disrupt president-elect biden's then inauguration? >> this is fascinating, wolf. first, the context here. donald trump's very last tweet came on january 8th. thats when twitter shut him down. the very last tweet he said for those who have asked, i am not going to be attending the inauguration on january 20th. i thought that was strange. because donald trump never announces anything that far in advance. he wants to build up the suspense and everything else. what you found out is that mitch mcconnell beginning when the members -- when the leadership came back to congress that night on january 6th, started talking to his top staff about how he wanted to get a letter together signed by the four top congressional leaders, mcconnell, schumer, pelosi and mccarthy saying that donald trump would not be invited to the inauguration. and he told his staff that the reason why he wanted to do that is he didn't want to give trump another chance to disrupt joe biden's inauguration. that's what he feared would happen. the white house learned of it in part because kevin mccarthy opposed. he is the only one of the four leaders that opposed this move. and kevin mccarthy reached out and told the white house about it. but so did mcconnell's chief of staff as a courtesy to mark meadows and it was after the white house found out that donald trump put out that tweet saying he wouldn't be attending. he wouldn't attend the inauguration. he was going to get disinvited. >> terrific reporting. i want to point out. you've come a long way in your career. i want to remind thaefeveryone you got your start here at cnn. there we see you in 2002. you're standing there. doing a live shot with me. i'm debriefing you. that other reporter talking you to looks familiar. congratulations. you've come a long way since those days. very proud of you. >> thank you, wolf. i spent eight great years at cnn. eight of best years of my career. i loved every minute of it. i loved working with you. great to be back with you. our first live shot together since 2003 g to see you again. >> good to see you always. and to our viewers once again, jonathan karl is the author of "betrayal: the final act of the trump show." thank you for your good work. thank you for joining us. we really appreciate it. good luck with the book. >> thank you. >> just ahead on the heels of two major trials this week, compelling conversations about racial injustice. cnn's don lemon is standing by live. we'll discuss race in america when we come back. ♪ this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. >> man: what's my safelite story? 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>> with all due respect, wolf, as said, it is just by saying with all due respect, it does not -- it does not condone anything that he said, right? it gives him at least the right or the gumption to be able to say it. i think it's ridiculous. i think it's very offensive. especially when you're talking about people, about a young man, obviously, who was killed by these two gentlemen. when you're talking about people who were lynched, the legacy of lynching in this country and to say that it was a modern day lynching, i think that is very offensive to everyone. listen, i think the rhetoric in what is happening in this country, i think everyone needs to take the rhetoric down, especially those who are involved in the process, who are right in the muddle of the process. >> it comes as you know, as that wisconsin jury found kyle rittenhouse not guilty on all charges after he killed two protesters, wounded a third. does this verdict reinforce the feeling that there are, and i heard this now all day, potentially two different justice systems here in the u.s.? >> i understand, wolf, what people say, what they mean when they say two different justice systems. but unfortunately -- unfortunately, would only have one justice system. and unfortunately, that justice system not always fair to certain people. and so i think the remedy is to fix that justice system which is what so many people are asking for and fighting for. what happened in the courtroom, we should respect the verdict and the conclusion that the jurors came to. and their work. and their service. but as americans, we have the right to criticize it. we have the right to feel however we want to feel about that. and so if you don't like what happened in that courtroom or in any courtroom or what is happening in georgia or anywhere, what you have the right to do as citizens and what you should do is fight to change that. to make the system more equitable and equal and fair for all. >> you write about all of this in your excellent book as well. >> there are some republican politicians latching on to kyle rittenhouse and a few, very few, but a few far right members of congress have said they'll offer him internships. what does it say to you that he's being held up potentially as a hero on the right? >> i think that people will stoop to anything these days. if they -- in order to stay in power. in order to own whatever side they want to own. and i think that attorney, richards, for kyle rittenhouse said something that i thought that should be promoted here. en that people should pay attention to. he was asked about -- i think one of the questions was what was the best thing you think you did in this case? is it and he said, he talked about why he took it. he took it for justice. and not for a cause. however you feel about it, he wanted to represent this young man. and mark richards said, you know when i took this case, i was hired by the two first lawyers. i'm not going to use their names. they wanted to use kyle for a cause and something that i think was inappropriate. i don't want to represent causes. the i represent clients and the only thing that ended up mattering to me was whether he was found not guilty or found guilty or not. and so -- then he goes on to say, they asked him, what was the best thing he did? he said getting rudid of the fit two lawyers. what he was saying is people have an agenda. and there with people who are using this young man, kyle rittenhouse, for their agenda. and i think it is represent hencible for lawmakers or anyone to be doing that. he was found not guilty. he is not guilty under the law. but i don't think that he should be a celebrity and i he don't think that his behavior and others in that situation, i don't think it is something to celebrate when you see people running around on open streets with assault style rifles whether it is kyle rittenhouse or not. if you don't like that, if you think that's wrong, then we should continue as citizens to fight to make it better and right. >> don, thank you very much. i know you're going to have a lot more on all the breaking news later tonight, 10:00 p.m. eastern, "don lemon tonight." we'll be watching as we do every night. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks, wolf. coming up, there is more breaking news. this in the last hour for covid-19 booster shots as all adults here in the united states 18 and old er are now eligible for an extra dose. more on that when we come back. retirement income is complicated. as your broker, i've solved it. that's great, carl. but we need something better. that's easily adjustable has no penalties or advisory fee. and we can monitor to see that we're on track. like schwab intelligent income. schwab! introducing schwab intelligent income. a simple, modern way to pay yourself from your portfolio. oh, that's cool... i mean, we don't have that. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management. 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(laughing) that was easy. what! i mean, i love you guys. the lexus rx: built for modern families. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ deposit, plan and pay with easy tools from chase. simplicity feels good. chase. make more of what's yours. breaking news. we just got a final thumbs up from the cdc director, dr. rochelle walensky, officially authorizing booster doses for all american adults ages 18 and up. let's discuss cnn medical analyst dr. leana wen. she is author of the book life lines, a doctor's journey in the fight for public health. dr. wen, thanks for joining us. first of all, what is your reaction to the cdc now officially endorsing vaccine boosters for all adults? >> i think it will help a lot because the messaging has been so confusing. in fact, at kaiser family foundation poll found that 40% of vaccinated adults did not know whether they were eligible for boosters. so now, the fda and cdc saying that everyone who is 18 and over is now eligible for a booster -- that will go a long way to clarifying the guidance. however, i do wish that the cdc went even further because right now, they are still saying that people 50 and under may get a booster. people 50 and older should get a booster. i wish they would just say that everybody at this point should get a booster. the booster is not a luxury. it is not a nice to have. it's essential in preventing people from getting breakthrough infections, and preventing the u.s. from having another winter surge. >> does the effectiveness of the initial-two shots with pfizer or moderna begins to decline after six months, right? >> that's exactly right. there are a lot of studies here in the u.s., and also looking in israel that show that immunity wanes. also, immunity to severe illness begins to wane and getting a third dose of the pfizer vaccine, for example, there was a trial that found if you get a third dose, you are more than 95% protected compared to those who whole got the two doses. whomts a breakthrough infection? i think those data are really clear that it's really essential to get a booster to protect our health. >> it certainly is. the fda as you know has endorsed what they call mixing and matching booster shot. now that american adults are on the eligibility, should they consider getting a different vaccine than the return they initially received? >> not necessarily. my advice for people who got the pfizer and moderna vaccines, unless you have a really compelling reason to switch to something else, for example, a severe allergic reaction, stick to what you got initially. and everybody, again, six months after their first-two doses of pfizer or moderna should be getting a second dose. people who got the johnson & johnson vaccine, two months after their first dose, they should be getting a second shot. for those individuals if you are a woman under the age of 50, you should switch to either pfizer or moderna. everybody else, you can take j&j or one of the other vaccines. >> thank you very, very much. just ahead, a jury in charlottesville, virginia, wrapping up its first day of deliberations in the civil lawsuit involving white supremacists who organized the deadly rally back in 2017. always put clients first. 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"erin burnett outfront" starts right now. outfront next. kyle rittenhouse, tonight, a free man. acquitted of all charges in a case that left america divided over whether he was acting in self-defense when he shot and killed two people. plus, the mystery deepening over the missing tennis star. chinese state media releasing what it claims are new images of peng shuai. former ambassador to china who has met the official accused of sexually assaulting and raping the tennis champ is my guest. and the white house just releasing details of biden's first physical of his presidency. why his doctor said his gait warranted a detailed investigation. le

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