that £400 we all got from the government last winter — that's gone. standing charges — the kind of line rental for your energy supply — is going up. so most people won't see much difference — and some analysts say the worst off amongst us will, again, be disproportionately hardest hit. the government say they have provided unprecendented support to families, £40 billion worth — and that help now is more targeted. labour has accused them of siding with oil and gas companies to the detriment of consumers. so we can get into the politics, how we got here — and what next for our energy market. we'll have various experts on hand, eager to answer your questions on that. but more importantly, it's getting darker out there, so what are you making of the months ahead? how did you cope last winter? are you dreading facing up to that again — particularly if you're already struggling? the debt charity stepchange says the trouble is you can count the pennies as much as you like — plenty of people simply can't budget their way out of this. your thoughts — your stories — energy bills and you. really looking forward to getting your stories over the next hour. get in contact. text 85058. at two minutes past nine let's get the news headlines from deena campbell. the energy regulator, 0fgem, has announced it's lowering the energy price cap for the three months from october. it means a typical household bill, not including standing charges, in england, scotland and wales will fall by around £150 — tojust over £1,900. the fall has been driven by a reduction in wholesale gas prices. donald trump has been formally charged with election interference in the us state of georgia. it makes him the first former president to have his mugshot taken. he denies 13 charges. the national crime agency is investigating the deaths of 88 people in the uk who bought a poisonous substance from a man in canada. kenneth law, who was arrested near toronto in may, has been charged in canada with assisting suicide. the head of spain's governing body for football is expected to step down today. luis rubiales was heavily criticised after he kissed a player on the mouth during the trophy presentation for spain's women's world cup final win on sunday. good morning. great to have your company. four minutes past nine. energy bills and you, the summer grinding to the end. not much of a summer. we start looking to the months ahead, and we concern ourselves with energy bills again. they will fall slightly in the three months from october to december, 0fgem the regulator saying that will be the case for the typical household. we want your experiences morning. you can ask any question you like about where we are, how we got here as a nation around energy bills. also, the wider energy market, profits that energy companies are making, though standing charges, any issues like that, feel free to get in touch. call 08085 909 693. text 85058. we have various experts on hand. we are after your personal stories, how are you finding it already? and during the summer months? people across the country are finding themselves in difficulties around energy bills. you are looking ahead to october, november, december, january, thinking, how am i going to go? really difficult compared to just three years ago. we know the reasons why, the external reasons, we have gone through that, government support will change over the next few months, it has already changed from £1100, few months, it has already changed from £400, £40 billion of public money that went into taking the edge of the energy bill because for all of the energy bill because for all of us across the uk. your thoughts on all of that on the usual number this morning. let's speak to our cost of living correspondent who is with us. we have adam in bristol and we have got ben from the price comparison website. he is in the studio without. thank you for being with us this morning. kevin, good morning. talk us through it. no matter how many times we talk about the price cap, you have to remind yourself how it works and why it has implications for our energy bills. can you make it simple? i’ll implications for our energy bills. can you make it simple?- can you make it simple? i'll do my best. the energy _ can you make it simple? i'll do my best. the energy regulator- can you make it simple? i'll do my best. the energy regulator of - can you make it simple? i'll do my best. the energy regulator ofjim i best. the energy regulator ofjim sets a maximum price that can be charged to us, as householders, for each unit of gas and electricity. remember, it's really important, this is not a cap on your total bill, if you use more, you're going to pay more. if you don't use very much, you are to pay less. you can look at it two ways. one way is that you look at the price for each unit, for gas it is under 7p each kilowatt hour, for electricity, 27 p. but you do not turn the heating on and say i wonder how many kilowatt hours i will use today? what you do as you think how much is that going to be on my bill? 0fgem illustrates this cap by saying how much a bill would be for one yearfor cap by saying how much a bill would be for one year for someone who uses what it considers a typical amount of gas and electricity. that is the number we are looking at today. it was just above £2000 for that typical customer for an annual bill, someone only direct debit, it's falling just below 1923, that is 151 pint drop but it is more than a £500 drop in the year compared to last winter. really importantly, as you mention, the charges are going up, and these government help that was in place is definitely not as generous this winter coming as it was last year. generous this winter coming as it was last year-— was last year. they have already made it more — was last year. they have already made it more targeted. - was last year. they have already made it more targeted. let's - was last year. they have already| made it more targeted. let's talk about standing charges. it feels like an important part of the equation and all of this. we will talk about that shortly. adam in bristol, good morning.- talk about that shortly. adam in bristol, good morning. good morning. lets start hearing _ bristol, good morning. good morning. lets start hearing your _ bristol, good morning. good morning. lets start hearing your stories. - lets start hearing your stories. what is your situation?- lets start hearing your stories. what is your situation? your expert has answered _ what is your situation? your expert has answered my _ what is your situation? your expert has answered my question, - what is your situation? your expert has answered my question, to - what is your situation? your expert has answered my question, to ask. what is your situation? your expert i has answered my question, to ask why is it that _ has answered my question, to ask why is it that we _ has answered my question, to ask why is it that we often hear about the average — is it that we often hear about the average household bill rather than the unit— average household bill rather than the unit cost. he hasjust described that quite _ the unit cost. he hasjust described that quite a — the unit cost. he hasjust described that quite a lot there. it is always the headline the average household bill and _ the headline the average household biii and i_ the headline the average household bill and i find that confusing, i'm not an— bill and i find that confusing, i'm not an average, the number that is quoted, _ not an average, the number that is quoted, in— not an average, the number that is quoted, in itself it is not capped, it depends — quoted, in itself it is not capped, it depends on usage. why is it that that is— it depends on usage. why is it that that is the — it depends on usage. why is it that that is the number that is talked about— that is the number that is talked about rather than unit cost? let�*s about rather than unit cost? let's ask our exaert — about rather than unit cost? let's ask our expert from _ about rather than unit cost? let's ask our expert from the - about rather than unit cost? let�*s ask our expert from the price comparison website. we are in a situation where understanding of the energy market is so much more in our headsit energy market is so much more in our heads it was previously. could you be more simple for consumers to understand? the be more simple for consumers to understand?— understand? the answer is yes. i think with _ understand? the answer is yes. i think with specific _ understand? the answer is yes. i think with specific reference - understand? the answer is yes. i think with specific reference to i think with specific reference to this question, the reason we talk about the average household as an annual cost is because that is the number that price comparison sites will compare what you are currently on versus what you could switch to. when you run an energy comparison, you will see i am spending x amount per year, you will see i am spending x amount peryear, i you will see i am spending x amount per year, i could spend x amount if i switch to this particular deal. that is why the price cap is reported in that way. i agree, it's confusing. we see this every time, the price cap is recalculated. it happens four times a year. we run our survey, happens four times a year. we run oursurvey, how happens four times a year. we run our survey, how many people understand what the price cap is. even with all the information we have, all the interviews we do, everything that we do to get this information out there, it is still about half of the population do not know what the price cap is. haifa know what the price cap is. how could you _ know what the price cap is. how could you be — know what the price cap is. how could you be more _ know what the price cap is. how could you be more straightforward? what is the clearest way possible? if i knew that, i would be working for 0fgem. i don't know, all we can do is try and ensure that people understand the price cap is a generalfigure. there is no such thing as a typical household. there is no such thing as average usage. you need to look at what the unit rates are and see how they stack up to what you are currently paying, and if you want to switch, you need to look at how the look on a deal you might want to switch to. that is the most sound way of working out whether there is a deal out there thatis whether there is a deal out there that is were fixing up. the whether there is a deal out there that is were fixing up.— that is were fixing up. the key thin is, that is were fixing up. the key thing is. the — that is were fixing up. the key thing is, the more _ that is were fixing up. the key thing is, the more energy - that is were fixing up. the key thing is, the more energy you | thing is, the more energy you use, the more you will pay. that needs to be clear. adam, before you go, i hope that was useful, what is your situation when you are looking at all of this at the moment? i am situation when you are looking at all of this at the moment? i am with octous all of this at the moment? i am with octopus energy. _ all of this at the moment? i am with octopus energy. i — all of this at the moment? i am with octopus energy, i have _ all of this at the moment? i am with octopus energy, i have got - all of this at the moment? i am with octopus energy, i have got three - octopus energy, i have got three children, we are a family of five, i do not know, i switch to octopus when the other company collapsed, i do not know what the rate i'm paying as compared to the average in the market, i only know what i pay. i recently looked on the website interestingly, and i could not see the unit rate specified. i had to estimate what my annual usage was and it would calculate something for me and give me a comparison. when i look at my electricity bill, i can see i currently pay 7.8 p per kilowatt hour. for gas and electricity. the numbers that kevin said at the beginning which was 7p per kilowatt hour, that is a very small change from what i am currently on. it's very difficult to know what should i be paying? what is a good rate? should i look for a fixed tariff. if i was only fixed tariff, what would be the impact of the change? ifind it very confusing. the change? i find it very confusing-— the change? i find it very confusing. the change? i find it very confusinu. �* ., ., , confusing. are more deals returning to the market _ confusing. are more deals returning to the market that _ confusing. are more deals returning to the market that are _ confusing. are more deals returning to the market that are fixed-rate i to the market that are fixed—rate deals? so many of them disappeared. when the energy crisis started, suppliers to all the fixed deals of the market. when the last price cut was announced at the beginning of the summer, that was the first time that prices had dropped enough that suppliers felt confident bringing fixed deals back to the market. we have not seen as many as we would have not seen as many as we would have hoped. it is not a full suite of deals. there are fixes around. you may need to be already a customer of the supplier that is offering the fixed be eligible for it. it's not like you can switch from one to another easily get. if you are considering a fixed deal, the fact is you are probably not going to be fixing to save, because the savings are minimal. you might be saving about £25 a year which is basically nothing. the reason you would look to fix is for price certainty so you know you're growing at rates are not going to go up for the duration of your contract. that would be the reason i would be looking to fix. taste would be the reason i would be looking to fix.— would be the reason i would be looking to fix. we can talk about caettin a looking to fix. we can talk about getting a better _ looking to fix. we can talk about getting a better deal, _ looking to fix. we can talk about getting a better deal, and - looking to fix. we can talk about getting a better deal, and we i looking to fix. we can talk about| getting a better deal, and we are having messages which are outlining the reality of all of those in distressing ways for a lot of our listeners and viewers. 0ne contributor said i am disabled, i cannot afford more than one minute in the shower. i am supposed to have a 15 minute shower. i cannot afford it. i am a 15 minute shower. i cannot afford it. iam paying a 15 minute shower. i cannot afford it. i am paying four times as much as i used to, i sit in the cold in the dark over the winter months. text 85058. share your stories with us. we are listening. we are here for you with your questions to our experts too. let's talk about standing charges. we have got lots of messages about this. this message says, good morning, governmentand 0fgem are allowing standing charges to go up again, further profiteering during what is a crisis for many people. money made from misery. not acceptable and notjustifiable. acceptable and not justifiable. another contributor said acceptable and notjustifiable. another contributor said standing charge is the biggest cone. i pay more for my gas supply than i did for my actual gas use. we can speak to andrew on the line this morning. you want to talk about standing charges. mr; you want to talk about standing charaes. y , ., you want to talk about standing charaes. g , . . ., , charges. my standing charge per week. £4 charges. my standing charge per week- it 50- — charges. my standing charge per week. £4 50. and _ charges. my standing charge per week. £4 50. and it _ charges. my standing charge per week. £4 50. and it has - charges. my standing charge per week. £4 50. and it has gone i charges. my standing charge per| week. £4 50. and it has gone up. charges. my standing charge per - week. £4 50. and it has gone up. do ou week. £4 50. and it has gone up. up you understand? does it feel justified? you understand? does it feel 'ustified? ~ ., you understand? does it feel 'ustified? ~ . ., , justified? we have wind farms where i live, we justified? we have wind farms where i live. we are — justified? we have wind farms where i live, we are paying _ justified? we have wind farms where i live, we are paying over _ justified? we have wind farms where i live, we are paying over the - justified? we have wind farms where i live, we are paying over the odds. i i live, we are paying over the odds. last winter. — i live, we are paying over the odds. last winter, £105 a week, it's a two—bedroom flat and i only put two radiators _ two—bedroom flat and i only put two radiators on. two-bedroom flat and i only put two radiators on-— radiators on. what you thinking about the winter? _ radiators on. what you thinking about the winter? it's - radiators on. what you thinking about the winter? it's very - about the winter? it's very worrying- _ about the winter? it's very worrying. some _ about the winter? it's very worrying. some charities l about the winter? it's very l worrying. some charities are about the winter? it's very - worrying. some charities are saying it's impossible _ worrying. some charities are saying it's impossible to _ worrying. some charities are saying it's impossible to budget. - worrying. some charities are saying it's impossible to budget. iron - worrying. some charities are saying it's impossible to budget. iron i - worrying. some charities are saying it's impossible to budget. iron i amj it's impossible to budget. iron i am on two tariff electricity, i am going to switch to a metre. an? let's talk about standing charges. this is a vexed issue. can you expand what they are and what we are actually paying for when you see that on the bill? and why do they keep going up? that on the bill? and why do they keep going up?— that on the bill? and why do they keep going up? daily charge for the riaht to be keep going up? daily charge for the right to be connected _ keep going up? daily charge for the right to be connected to _ keep going up? daily charge for the right to be connected to the - keep going up? daily charge for the right to be connected to the system and for all the hardware needed and all that kind of thing. clearly, it is a big issue for people who do not use much gas and electricity because they are paying a charge and you can't do anything about it. you cannot cut your energy use and cut your standing charge. it's not possible. they have been going up. 0fgem, 0fgem will challenge this morning on the standing charges, which is really importantly, vary depending on where you live as well. there are areas like merseyside and north wales where it's more expensive than other areas. that's a historical thing to do with getting energy to these areas. 0fgem are saying they have looked at trying to shift some of these charges from a standing charge onto the unit charge and say that's difficult, it's not fair, in certain circumstances, that debate is clearly going to continue. i am worried about and adding an extra layer of complication, but i am going to do it. remember, these charges are all about england, wales and scotland, and how you pay, this is something you can do something about. how you pay depends on what you paid. forsome about. how you pay depends on what you paid. for some people, they will still be paying every three months on standard credit, often by check, thatis on standard credit, often by check, that is £120 a year more expensive thanif that is £120 a year more expensive than if you pay by direct debit, windows charges are smoothed out over the year. there are lots of people who do not have that option and have a prepayment meter, they will pay slightly more than those on direct debit. all these charges in the mix, if you like, and i'm afraid it's a case of sitting down, looking at your charges, looking at what you pay, budgeting accordingly, you haven't turned the heating on yet. now is a good time to look at this. what is the justification? we are all paying more in standard charges to recover the cost of buying fuel for the customers of all those small suppliers who went bust. we spoke to adam who was talking about being moved of bulb, and went to 0ctopus, that feels like a long time ago. and the energy companies are still asking us for more money on standing charges to cover that cost. meanwhile, we are seeing significant profits for a lot of these companies as well. where is the justification in the increased charges on standing course? , ,., ., in the increased charges on standing course? , ., , , ., course? yes, some of this is from what happened — course? yes, some of this is from what happened over _ course? yes, some of this is from what happened over the _ course? yes, some of this is from what happened over the last - course? yes, some of this is from | what happened over the last couple of years, some of those charges being passed on, and covering the cost of those businesses that went under, what suppliers will say is, hang on a minute, there are two different areas here where the big profits are made as generation, it is not in our supplying energy to customers, again, that's a debate thatis customers, again, that's a debate that is going to continue, clearly, it is a political debate about how they are taxed and so on. that is where that whole argument comes from. campaigners really are looking very hard at this standing charge issue because it affects people who feel as though they can't do anything about it. what campaigners are also saying and charities too that the part you can control, this is no time for complacency. you may see that cat come down, things are getting cheaper, but actually when it is all thrown into the mix, especially the government support being withdrawn and so on, it is going to cost you probably as much and it will be as difficult this winter as it was last winter, and as a result, that's pretty important to think about your energy use. another think about your energy use. another thing campaigners — think about your energy use. another thing campaigners are _ think about your energy use. another thing campaigners are talking - think about your energy use. another thing campaigners are talking about i thing campaigners are talking about is the idea of the social tariff. perhaps one of you can explain the idea of that to us later on. call 08085 909 693. text 85058. if you are watching on the bbc news channel or listening on radio 5 live. we have got callers, good morning to you all. thank you for getting in contact. happy friday. this is an interesting question, if you want to ask kevin and ben, our experts, what you want to ask?— you want to ask? early on in the crisis, you want to ask? early on in the crisis. there _ you want to ask? early on in the crisis, there was _ you want to ask? early on in the crisis, there was an _ you want to ask? early on in the crisis, there was an energy - you want to ask? early on in the l crisis, there was an energy expert on the _ crisis, there was an energy expert on the news — crisis, there was an energy expert on the news saying a solution would be to _ on the news saying a solution would be to decouple the price of electricity from the price of gas. since _ electricity from the price of gas. since then, i have not heard this mentioned _ since then, i have not heard this mentioned. whether the money is coming _ mentioned. whether the money is coming from the taxpayers or out of our pocket, — coming from the taxpayers or out of our pocket, i— coming from the taxpayers or out of our pocket, i am so uncomfortable with these — our pocket, i am so uncomfortable with these obscene profits that the energy. _ with these obscene profits that the energy, the wholesalers, the people who generate the thing, particularly at a time _ who generate the thing, particularly at a time of climate breakdown and the cost _ at a time of climate breakdown and the cost of— at a time of climate breakdown and the cost of living and everything. it the cost of living and everything. it seems — the cost of living and everything. it seems like it's a very very inconsistent and it needs a fundamental way of changing it than 'ust fundamental way of changing it than just taxpayers money filling the -ap. just taxpayers money filling the gap i_ just taxpayers money filling the gap. i wondered why this can't happen — gap. i wondered why this can't happen. 7 _ gap. i wondered why this can't happen. ? ben, what are your thoughts? _ happen. ? ben, what are your thoughts? we happen. ? ben, what are your thoughts?— happen. ? ben, what are your thoughts? happen. ? ben, what are your thou~hts? . ., , , thoughts? we have recognised this over the last _ thoughts? we have recognised this over the last couple _ thoughts? we have recognised this over the last couple of _ thoughts? we have recognised this over the last couple of years - thoughts? we have recognised this over the last couple of years that i over the last couple of years that fundamentally, to talk more generally about the price cap, that was introduced to protect households from high energy prices and clearly, it has not been doing itsjob. in the wake of this crisis. i think i would be, ifi the wake of this crisis. i think i would be, if i was in the government, in 0fgem, i would definitely be looking at getting round the table and working out what the future of the uk energy industry looks like particularly in terms of future proofing it. we have seen how badly it has been affected by events elsewhere, the war in ukraine is one thing. but even this week, energy markets have been nervous based on the idea that there might be a strike any natural gas plant in australia. i would be looking at ways that we can risk —— reduced the risk of events elsewhere affecting energy prices here. but that is something the government and 0fgem need to get round the table and talk about. the need to get round the table and talk about. , , ., ., about. the slightest of external factors plunges _ about. the slightest of external factors plunges us _ about. the slightest of external factors plunges us into - about. the slightest of external factors plunges us into more i factors plunges us into more difficulty. factors plunges us into more difficul . ~ factors plunges us into more difficulty-— factors plunges us into more difficul . ~ , . , , difficulty. when the energy crisis kicked off, _ difficulty. when the energy crisis kicked off, the _ difficulty. when the energy crisis kicked off, the war— difficulty. when the energy crisis kicked off, the war in _ difficulty. when the energy crisis kicked off, the war in ukraine . difficulty. when the energy crisis| kicked off, the war in ukraine had not started. it was to do with a few different things that all were laced at the same time, pipeline breakdowns, infrastructure issues, that initially push the prices up. and then the war started and made things worse. i think it is really difficult. i do not think there is an easy solution. i have so much sympathy with customers who do not know whether they are coming or going, frankly, on energy prices. especially with the price cap changing four times a year as opposed to twice a year. lets talk to richard- _ opposed to twice a year. lets talk to richard. you _ opposed to twice a year. lets talk to richard. you wanted _ opposed to twice a year. lets talk to richard. you wanted to - opposed to twice a year. lets talk to richard. you wanted to talk- opposed to twice a year. lets talk i to richard. you wanted to talk about the price cap. it might have been something we discussed, but maybe this is one for kevin. what you want to say? this is one for kevin. what you want to sa ? �* , , , , ., to say? it's rubbish, giving an ener: to say? it's rubbish, giving an energy price _ to say? it's rubbish, giving an energy price cap. _ to say? it's rubbish, giving an energy price cap, the - to say? it's rubbish, giving an energy price cap, the averagej energy price cap, the average household has to be £2500 a year, it's like _ household has to be £2500 a year, it's like saying the average driver has to— it's like saying the average driver has to be — it's like saying the average driver has to be £2500 a year for petrol. we do _ has to be £2500 a year for petrol. we do not — has to be £2500 a year for petrol. we do not look at petrol like that. we do not look at petrol like that. we know — we do not look at petrol like that. we know the price per litre. we should — we know the price per litre. we should be — we know the price per litre. we should be talking about electricity and energy in price of kilowatt—hour. it is confusing to say the — kilowatt—hour. it is confusing to say the average household will be that much — say the average household will be that much per year because that is an impression that you can budget, i have got— an impression that you can budget, i have got £2500, that is what i have to be _ have got £2500, that is what i have to be but _ have got £2500, that is what i have to be but it's different for everyone. it makes no sense in its misieading — everyone. it makes no sense in its misleading and not helpful. to add on the _ misleading and not helpful. to add on the standing charge, that is really— on the standing charge, that is really like _ on the standing charge, that is really like a stealth charge as well — really like a stealth charge as well. why have it? why not have it as part _ well. why have it? why not have it as part of — well. why have it? why not have it as part of the unit cost of electricity? then you can budget if you know — electricity? then you can budget if you know how much fuel you are using and the _ you know how much fuel you are using and the cost _ you know how much fuel you are using and the cost per unit, then you can work— and the cost per unit, then you can work out _ and the cost per unit, then you can work out what you're kosai to be. stephen — work out what you're kosai to be. stephen and gateshead said he is being killed by the standing charges, it has increased over the last 18 months, there is no one out there who will offer cheaper prepaid prices, prepaid metres are something we have discussed, an awful lot, over recent months. jermaine is in worthing, the sunny south coast. i don't know if it's sunny this morning. you are in the game, you are an energy consultant. i am morning. you are in the game, you are an energy consultant.— are an energy consultant. i am on the commercial— are an energy consultant. i am on the commercial side. _ are an energy consultant. i am on the commercial side. i _ are an energy consultant. i am on the commercial side. i agree i are an energy consultant. i am on the commercial side. i agree with j the commercial side. i agree with the commercial side. i agree with the experts _ the commercial side. i agree with the experts. the _ the commercial side. i agree with the experts. the price _ the commercial side. i agree with the experts. the price cap- the commercial side. i agree with the experts. the price cap in- the experts. the price cap in general— the experts. the price cap in general has _ the experts. the price cap in general has gone _ the experts. the price cap in general has gone down i the experts. the price cap in. general has gone down against the experts. the price cap in- general has gone down against what it was— general has gone down against what it was last _ general has gone down against what it was last year~ _ general has gone down against what it was last year. having _ general has gone down against what it was last year. having said - general has gone down against what it was last year. having said that, i it was last year. having said that, for anyone, — it was last year. having said that, foranyone, if— it was last year. having said that, for anyone, if you _ it was last year. having said that, for anyone, if you are _ it was last year. having said that, for anyone, if you are thinking i it was last year. having said that, i for anyone, if you are thinking your rates _ for anyone, if you are thinking your rates are _ for anyone, if you are thinking your rates are high— for anyone, if you are thinking your rates are high at _ for anyone, if you are thinking your rates are high at the _ for anyone, if you are thinking your rates are high at the moment, i for anyone, if you are thinking your rates are high at the moment, the i rates are high at the moment, the best time — rates are high at the moment, the best time to — rates are high at the moment, the best time to look _ rates are high at the moment, the best time to look at _ rates are high at the moment, the best time to look at it, _ rates are high at the moment, the best time to look at it, the - rates are high at the moment, the best time to look at it, the rates l best time to look at it, the rates are at— best time to look at it, the rates are at their— best time to look at it, the rates are at their cheapest, _ best time to look at it, the rates are at their cheapest, now, i best time to look at it, the rates are at their cheapest, now, if. best time to look at it, the ratesl are at their cheapest, now, if you wait _ are at their cheapest, now, if you wait until— are at their cheapest, now, if you wait until the _ are at their cheapest, now, if you wait until the winter— are at their cheapest, now, if you wait until the winter months, i are at their cheapest, now, if you wait until the winter months, the| wait until the winter months, the rates _ wait until the winter months, the rates are — wait until the winter months, the rates are at— wait until the winter months, the rates are at the _ wait until the winter months, the rates are at the highest - wait until the winter months, the rates are at the highest and i wait until the winter months, the rates are at the highest and that| wait until the winter months, the i rates are at the highest and that is the same — rates are at the highest and that is the same with— rates are at the highest and that is the same with all— rates are at the highest and that is the same with all suppliers. - rates are at the highest and that is the same with all suppliers. with i the same with all suppliers. with regard _ the same with all suppliers. with regard to — the same with all suppliers. with regard to standing _ the same with all suppliers. with regard to standing charges, i the same with all suppliers. with regard to standing charges, on . the same with all suppliers. with i regard to standing charges, on the business _ regard to standing charges, on the business side, _ regard to standing charges, on the business side, lots _ regard to standing charges, on the business side, lots of _ regard to standing charges, on the business side, lots of suppliers i regard to standing charges, on the business side, lots of suppliers do| business side, lots of suppliers do no standing — business side, lots of suppliers do no standing charge _ business side, lots of suppliers do no standing charge products, i business side, lots of suppliers do no standing charge products, theyj no standing charge products, they can easily— no standing charge products, they can easily do _ no standing charge products, they can easily do it _ no standing charge products, they can easily do it on _ no standing charge products, they can easily do it on the _ no standing charge products, they can easily do it on the domestic. can easily do it on the domestic side _ can easily do it on the domestic side. disarming _ can easily do it on the domestic side. disarming sense? -- i can easily do it on the domestic side. disarming sense?- can easily do it on the domestic side. disarming sense? -- it will make more _ side. disarming sense? -- it will make more sense _ side. disarming sense? -- it will make more sense to _ side. disarming sense? -- it will make more sense to bend. i side. disarming sense? -- it will make more sense to bend. the i make more sense to bend. the difference between commercial and domestic i ran standing charges, is a big difference there? also, there is a way to question there in terms of who price cap benefits most and who benefits the least, i don't know if you can to both of those on. the difference — if you can to both of those on. tue: difference between if you can to both of those on. t'te: difference between commercial and domestic is tricky for me personally, i am a domestic expert, i do not have a huge amount of experience with business energy and commercial energy, in terms of who the price cap benefits, as i said earlier, initially, it was supposed to benefit customers because there was no previously, there was no cap on standard variable prices. prices could go all the way up as far as they wanted, with no limits. now, it is clear that it is not really benefiting anyone even though it is coming down, we have origins discussed the fact that it is not going to be felt in her bank balance and in our wallets. it is the idea of doesn't need reform? does it need scrapping? what are the alternatives out there to protect households from high energy prices? we are not there yet, but we do need to seriously be having these conversations. being an ener: having these conversations. being an energy consultant _ having these conversations. being an energy consultant at _ having these conversations. being an energy consultant at a _ having these conversations. being an energy consultant at a time - having these conversations. being an energy consultant at a time like i energy consultant at a time like this, what does it mean? i'm trying to get an understanding of what your job would be at the moment. what kind of consultancy can you give to people? it kind of consultancy can you give to --eole? , kind of consultancy can you give to eo le? , ., , ., , people? it is literally, get many quotations— people? it is literally, get many quotations from _ people? it is literally, get many quotations from two _ people? it is literally, get many quotations from two or - people? it is literally, get many quotations from two or three i quotations from two or three suppliers. _ quotations from two or three suppliers, have _ quotations from two or three suppliers, have a _ quotations from two or three suppliers, have a look- quotations from two or three suppliers, have a look at i quotations from two or three. suppliers, have a look at what quotations from two or three - suppliers, have a look at what else is out _ suppliers, have a look at what else is out there? — suppliers, have a look at what else is out there? use _ suppliers, have a look at what else is out there? use them _ suppliers, have a look at what else is out there? use them against- suppliers, have a look at what else. is out there? use them against each other— is out there? use them against each other and _ is out there? use them against each otherand make _ is out there? use them against each other and make sure _ is out there? use them against each other and make sure you _ is out there? use them against each other and make sure you are - is out there? use them against each other and make sure you are on- is out there? use them against each other and make sure you are on the| other and make sure you are on the best possible — other and make sure you are on the best possible price, _ other and make sure you are on the best possible price, and _ other and make sure you are on the best possible price, and if- other and make sure you are on the best possible price, and if you're i best possible price, and if you're going _ best possible price, and if you're going to — best possible price, and if you're going to fix — best possible price, and if you're going to fix it. _ best possible price, and if you're going to fix it, for— best possible price, and if you're going to fix it, for the _ best possible price, and if you're going to fix it, for the love - best possible price, and if you're going to fix it, for the love of- going to fix it, for the love of god, _ going to fix it, for the love of god, fix— going to fix it, for the love of god, fix it _ going to fix it, for the love of god, fix it in— going to fix it, for the love of god, fix it in the _ going to fix it, for the love of god, fix it in the summer- going to fix it, for the love of- god, fix it in the summer because the rates — god, fix it in the summer because the rates are _ god, fix it in the summer because the rates are at _ god, fix it in the summer because the rates are at the _ god, fix it in the summer because the rates are at the lowest. - god, fix it in the summer because the rates are at the lowest. a i god, fix it in the summer because the rates are at the lowest. a loti the rates are at the lowest. a lot of peopie — the rates are at the lowest. a lot of peopie we _ the rates are at the lowest. a lot of people we speak _ the rates are at the lowest. a lot of people we speak to, _ the rates are at the lowest. a lot of people we speak to, the - the rates are at the lowest. a lot of people we speak to, the leave the rates are at the lowest. a lot l of people we speak to, the leave it to october. — of people we speak to, the leave it to october, november, _ of people we speak to, the leave it to october, november, and - of people we speak to, the leave it to october, november, and it's i of people we speak to, the leave it. to october, november, and it's going to october, november, and it's going to be a _ to october, november, and it's going to be a lot _ to october, november, and it's going to be a lot higher. _ to october, november, and it's going to be a lot higher. that— to october, november, and it's going to be a lot higher. that is— to october, november, and it's going to be a lot higher. that is the - to october, november, and it's going to be a lot higher. that is the best i to be a lot higher. that is the best advice _ to be a lot higher. that is the best advice i_ to be a lot higher. that is the best advice i can— to be a lot higher. that is the best advice i can give. _ to be a lot higher. that is the best advice i can give.— advice i can give. good man. thank ou ve advice i can give. good man. thank you very much _ advice i can give. good man. thank you very much indeed. _ advice i can give. good man. thank you very much indeed. jermaine i advice i can give. good man. thank you very much indeed. jermaine in | you very much indeed. jermaine in worthing and we head from richard in camberley. call 08085 909 693. a very quick question for kevin. cost of living correspondence. social tariffs, this has been mentioned more than once today. the consumer group which, given the volatility in the energy market of the last couple of years, many including 0fgem are raising questions about how to have a competitive market including reforming the cap. as part of it is crucial to consider how to protect customers who cannot afford their energy bill. there needs a social tariff as soon as possible to help those who are struggling to make mincemeat. what do they mean by a social tariff? mincemeat. what do they mean by a socialtariff? how mincemeat. what do they mean by a social tariff? how does it work? this is something 0fgem has said it needs to be looked at as a possible solution. the idea is you get a cheaper deal if you are uncertain benefits. targeted for the lower income households on benefits. it is something we see in other sectors. broadband, there is a social, social tariffs, there are two big stumbling blocks if you like. the first is that a lot of people and some of these other sectors do not know about social tariffs, it has been proudly advertised by the suppliers. the second is how it is paid for. this is a huge question. if you have a discounted rate for one group of people, then the likelihood is that the cost of that is picked up by suppliers, how will they fund that, thatis suppliers, how will they fund that, that is by higher prices for everyone else. the idea is that this discounted rate for certain people on lower incomes and benefits, the people who are struggling the most, there is a real issue about how that is introduced, how that is paid for and how that is marketed. thank you very much, kevin, very well explained. we are going to have more experts with us for the next half an hour and beyond if you are going to continue to listen to us on five live. and broader issues around the cost of living situation has become out of the summer months and start to think how things be through the autumn and into the winter. 08085 909693 is the number if you want to speak to us. the tips on how to save money on your energy bill, other help with the cost of living advice you can go to, there is a particular section of the bbc news website and it is called tackling it together. all sorts of advice and tips on how to deal with it. it is 9:30am. it is time we got the news. thank you, chris. the energy regulator, 0fgem, has announced it's lowering the energy price cap for the three months from october. it means a typical household bill not including standing charges — in england, scotland and wales will fall — and wales will fall — by around £150 — tojust over £1900. the fall has been driven by a reduction in wholesale gas prices. donald trump has become the first former us president to have his mugshot taken, as he was charged with racketeering and conspiring to overturn the 2020 election in the state of georgia. he described the charges as "a travesty ofjustice". the national crime agency is investigating the deaths of 88 people who had bought a poisonous substance online. kenneth law was arrested in canada in may. he's alleged to have run websites selling products to assist with suicides. the ministry of defence says there's been no "definitive proof" that yevgeny prigozhin, was on board a plane that crashed in moscow but it's "highly likely" he is dead. the russian mercenary leader was listed as being on board the privatejet, but there's been no confirmation he was killed. the head of the spanish football federation, luis rubiales, is due to resign today. he's faced heavy criticism after kissing midfielder jenni hermoso on the lips after last weekend's world cup final. he had also made a lewd gesture as he celebrated spain's victory at the final whistle. the former premier league referee, mike dean, has admitted he failed to correct a mistake in a chelsea—tottenham match last season to prevent his friend, anthony taylor, receiving extra "grief." dean was on var duty at stamford bridge, while taylor was in charge on the field. chelsea wanted tottenham defender cristian romero sent off for pulling marc cucurella to the floor by his hair. dean says he made a "really bad call" in not sending taylor to review his decision. british 400m runner, matthew hudson—smith says he has "big plans" for next year, which includes the paris olympics. hudson—smith won silver at the world athletics championships in budapest. and the commonwealth games federation says its "main focus" now is on finding a new host for the 2026 games. that's after settling its disputes with the australian state of victoria, which withdrew as hosts last month. good morning, it is chris warburton with you this morning. the energy price cap and you. we have been learning a lot more about it as we do each time. you have to remind yourself what it all means and what the implications might be for our bills. energy bills are going to fall slightly in the three months from october tojust fall slightly in the three months from october to just under £2000 a yearfor a typical from october to just under £2000 a year for a typical household, according to the regulator 0fgem. they have announced that this morning. currently the annual energy bill for an average household is just over £2000. it is about £100, £150 difference. just remind you as well, three years ago the cap was around £1000. we have had lots of listeners and viewers getting in touch this morning saying actually the price cap, what does it tell us? it doesn't tell us the overall cost of what we are going to end up paying necessarily. still the more energy you use the more you will pay for that energy. is a it confusing situation. the cap governs millions of households. it is the price per unit and not the total bill. and even though the cap might determine that typically your bill will come down a bit, that has to be offset against the fact that standing charges are continuing to go up. it is something we were talking about in the last half an hour or so. pretty controversially for some of our viewers and listeners this morning. and last winter's £400 support from the government has ended. so all in all when you balance it out many people will see little difference. some of your text and thank you for getting in touch. this listener is saying what is really unfair is the massive cost people put on those who chose not to pay on a direct debit but as a pay basis. i choose to pay what i use and don't let the company hold my money because i can't afford them to take huge amounts by direct debit. they penalised people like me by giving me the highest standing charge per day. that is from becky. graham in the isle of wight. hello to you, graham, thanks for getting in contact. the last water bill was received for the last six months. i got charged for a standing charge and then they tried to charge me again for waste water. we will get onto water bills in more detail after 10am if you are still with us on 5 live. a quick one on standing charges. the standing charges are unfair, say this contributor, for those who try hard to reduce their usage. the more you use the more you pay should be the way it works but the standard charges don't reflect that. 0nce the standard charges don't reflect that. once you get into where you are in the country it is a fixed charge for everyone in the country. another says it should be the usage that increases, not the standard charge. 08085 909693. all the day's stories on bbc news from 10am. and you can get tips on how to save money on your energy bills as well. as i mentioned on the tackling it together section on the bbc news website. 0n 5 live and bbc sounds —, we're continuting the discussion on the energy price cap until 11. hello to all of you thanks for getting it. we have also got richard layne with us. he is director of external affairs at step change, the debt charity. richard, good morning to you as well. let's start very quickly with one to you, richard. what are you making of all of this today? how do you think it all balances out for the typical consumer?— balances out for the typical consumer? ~ ., ., consumer? we have to welcome ositive consumer? we have to welcome positive news — consumer? we have to welcome positive news when _ consumer? we have to welcome positive news when we - consumer? we have to welcome positive news when we have i consumer? we have to welcome positive news when we have it, i consumer? we have to welcome i positive news when we have it, don't we? and this is some good news that the charges will be going down but as you have just alluded to for most households it will be pretty marginal as government support has come to an end already and at step change we have put in the wider context. lots of people are facing a perfect storm of rising costs. it is notjust perfect storm of rising costs. it is not just energy perfect storm of rising costs. it is notjust energy bills, we know people's food bills have gone up astronomically in some cases. we know that people are now facing incredibly steep increases in their mortgages as interest rates are going up. even if you want a homeowner lots of people are seeing some of that increase being passed on to them by landlords as tenants. for lots of people while this will be some respite it is not going to be some respite it is not going to be solving the cost of living crisis for them was white far from it, far from it. as we have been saying, the government has been saying we have given unprecedented support to families across the country in terms of that £40 billion package that they put together. triage of that £40 billion package that they put together.— of that £40 billion package that the ut touether. ., ., , , they put together. now that support, it has already — they put together. now that support, it has already become _ they put together. now that support, it has already become much - they put together. now that support, it has already become much more i it has already become much more targeted, hasn't it? that will continue into the autumn and winter months and perhaps you can give us an explanation on that before too long, richard, for some of our listeners and viewers this morning. leah, what is your situation they're in shropshire? brute leah, what is your situation they're in shropshire?— in shropshire? we have seen obviously _ in shropshire? we have seen obviously like _ in shropshire? we have seen obviously like everybody i in shropshire? we have seenj obviously like everybody else in shropshire? we have seen l obviously like everybody else a steep — obviously like everybody else a steep increase in our gas and electricity. so we will... we have been _ electricity. so we will... we have been moved to octopus. when we moved to them _ been moved to octopus. when we moved to them they— been moved to octopus. when we moved to them they increased our direct debit _ to them they increased our direct debit from — to them they increased our direct debit from about £115 up to £170. as a resuit— debit from about £115 up to £170. as a result of— debit from about £115 up to £170. as a result of that i had to cancel the direct— a result of that i had to cancel the direct debit because we just couldn't— direct debit because we just couldn't afford that. and then i think— couldn't afford that. and then i think you — couldn't afford that. and then i think you said earlier that it means you pay— think you said earlier that it means you pay more as a standing charge. and i_ you pay more as a standing charge. and i didn't — you pay more as a standing charge. and i didn't realise that. so we went— and i didn't realise that. so we went back— and i didn't realise that. so we went back on direct debit and then went back on direct debit and then we just— went back on direct debit and then we just had to scramble to find the money _ we just had to scramble to find the money but— we just had to scramble to find the money. but as a consequences of these — money. but as a consequences of these constant rises i have had to -et these constant rises i have had to get a _ these constant rises i have had to get a second job and it is the only way we _ get a second job and it is the only way we have been able to keep our head _ way we have been able to keep our head above — way we have been able to keep our head above water.— way we have been able to keep our head above water. number one, you are absolutely _ head above water. number one, you are absolutely right, _ head above water. number one, you are absolutely right, we _ head above water. number one, you are absolutely right, we all - are absolutely right, we all suddenly have to be much more analytical, don't we, about the energy market and understanding in a way that we probably wouldn't have even thought about a few years ago. and now all of a sudden we are experts. in terms of the second job and you say to keep head above the water, what kind of implications that have the broader family life and for you? . that have the broader family life and for you?— and for you? , yeah, it is really tou~h. i and for you? , yeah, it is really tough- i have — and for you? , yeah, it is really tough. i have been _ and for you? , yeah, it is really tough. i have been doing - and for you? , yeah, it is really tough. i have been doing two . and for you? , yeah, it is really i tough. i have been doing two jobs tough. i have been doing twojobs since _ tough. i have been doing twojobs since the — tough. i have been doing twojobs since the start of the year. we have a two—year—old so it means i can't spend _ a two—year—old so it means i can't spend as — a two—year—old so it means i can't spend as much time with her. we are having _ spend as much time with her. we are having to _ spend as much time with her. we are having to put — spend as much time with her. we are having to put her into childcare more. — having to put her into childcare more, which obviously there is a knock-on— more, which obviously there is a knock—on effect there with the cost. and just _ knock—on effect there with the cost. and just my— knock—on effect there with the cost. and just my health as well. i am absolutely— and just my health as well. i am absolutely exhausted all the time but it— absolutely exhausted all the time but it is— absolutely exhausted all the time but it is the only thing we can do at the _ but it is the only thing we can do at the moment while things are so pressurised. and i'm working more than a _ pressurised. and i'm working more than a normal 40 hour week now and i'm than a normal 40 hour week now and i'm really— than a normal 40 hour week now and i'm really feeling it. how than a normal 40 hour week now and i'm really feeling it.— i'm really feeling it. how fitting the 'obs i'm really feeling it. how fitting the jobs in? — i'm really feeling it. how fitting the jobs in? i— i'm really feeling it. how fitting the jobs in? i literally _ i'm really feeling it. how fitting the jobs in? i literally spread i i'm really feeling it. how fitting l the jobs in? i literally spread my workin: the jobs in? i literally spread my working hours — the jobs in? i literally spread my working hours over _ the jobs in? i literally spread my working hours over the - the jobs in? i literally spread my working hours over the week- working hours over the week basically— working hours over the week basically to get by. i am logged onto— basically to get by. i am logged onto my— basically to get by. i am logged onto my laptop at 9pm, 10pm and then i'm onto my laptop at9pm,10pm and then im up— onto my laptop at 9pm, 10pm and then im upat— onto my laptop at 9pm, 10pm and then i'm up at 6am. i tend to do an hour before— i'm up at 6am. i tend to do an hour before my— i'm up at 6am. i tend to do an hour before my daughterwakes i'm up at 6am. i tend to do an hour before my daughter wakes up and sought— before my daughter wakes up and sought her out and get to nursery and then— sought her out and get to nursery and then get back and i am working flat out— and then get back and i am working flat out constantly. i don't know how much — flat out constantly. i don't know how much longer i can keep it up but i how much longer i can keep it up but i have _ how much longer i can keep it up but i have got— how much longer i can keep it up but i have got to — how much longer i can keep it up but i have got to try because financially if i don't do it we can't — financially if i don't do it we can't afford to pay for the bills plus— can't afford to pay for the bills plus the — can't afford to pay for the bills plus the cost of food, it is ridiculous. our shopping bill is crazy— ridiculous. our shopping bill is crazy and _ ridiculous. our shopping bill is crazy and there is only three of us. that is— crazy and there is only three of us. that is part — crazy and there is only three of us. that is part of the point, isn't it? you say you don't know how long you can keep it up for. it seems that the road keeps getting longer and longer into the distance, doesn't it, in terms of how we are having to cope with all of this?— cope with all of this? yeah, and what really _ cope with all of this? yeah, and what really strikes _ cope with all of this? yeah, and what really strikes me - cope with all of this? yeah, and what really strikes me is - cope with all of this? yeah, and what really strikes me is that i cope with all of this? yeah, andl what really strikes me is that i'm doing _ what really strikes me is that i'm doing all— what really strikes me is that i'm doing all these crazy hours to get by and _ doing all these crazy hours to get by and i— doing all these crazy hours to get by and i don't even have the ability to enjoy— by and i don't even have the ability to enjoy the money because i am just working _ to enjoy the money because i am just working to _ to enjoy the money because i am just working to pay other people. and that is— working to pay other people. and that is really difficult for us as a family — that is really difficult for us as a family we _ that is really difficult for us as a family. we want to great memories with our— family. we want to great memories with our daughter and we are not be able to— with our daughter and we are not be able to at— with our daughter and we are not be able to at the moment was white and as you _ able to at the moment was white and as you say _ able to at the moment was white and as you say, you are exhausted. absolutely— as you say, you are exhausted. absolutely shattered all the time. and i_ absolutely shattered all the time. and i have had to speak to my gp about— and i have had to speak to my gp about getting some talking therapies because _ about getting some talking therapies because i_ about getting some talking therapies because i am having problems with my sleep and _ because i am having problems with my sleep and i_ because i am having problems with my sleep and i don't know if that is because — sleep and i don't know if that is because i— sleep and i don't know if that is because i am overworked and overtired _ because i am overworked and overtired and naturally you can't sleep _ overtired and naturally you can't sleep or— overtired and naturally you can't sleep or whether it isjust overtired and naturally you can't sleep or whether it is just the worry— sleep or whether it is just the worry of— sleep or whether it is just the worry of everything with the cost of living _ worry of everything with the cost of living was _ worry of everything with the cost of living was white you are getting no time switch off and relax, are you? you just— time switch off and relax, are you? you just constantly feel like you like a _ you just constantly feel like you like a hamster on a wheel and you can't _ like a hamster on a wheel and you can't stop— like a hamster on a wheel and you can't stop and get off. that is how i can't stop and get off. that is how i feel _ can't stop and get off. that is how i feel i_ can't stop and get off. that is how i feel. i know i am probably going to hit— i feel. i know i am probably going to hit burnout and a moment where i suddenly— to hit burnout and a moment where i suddenly hit — to hit burnout and a moment where i suddenly hit but for now i am just finding _ suddenly hit but for now i am just finding ways to keep going. plenty of coffee _ finding ways to keep going. plenty of coffee and tea.— finding ways to keep going. plenty of coffee and tea. ead-only gets you so thou~h, of coffee and tea. ead-only gets you so though, doesn't _ of coffee and tea. ead-only gets you so though, doesn't it? _ of coffee and tea. ead-only gets you so though, doesn't it? at _ of coffee and tea. ead-only gets you so though, doesn't it? at least i of coffee and tea. ead-only gets you so though, doesn't it? at least you i so though, doesn't it? at least you are still laughing. there must be real ups and downs for you. and actually you must look at the winter months. i mean, you are talking about this when we're the 25th of august it is not even the summer. exactly. i am terrified about winter because _ exactly. i am terrified about winter because we — exactly. i am terrified about winter because we have a young child and i don't _ because we have a young child and i don't want _ because we have a young child and i don't want her to suffer being in a house _ don't want her to suffer being in a house where she is cold. you know, it is not _ house where she is cold. you know, it is not right — house where she is cold. you know, it is not right really hence i am doing — it is not right really hence i am doing all— it is not right really hence i am doing all i_ it is not right really hence i am doing all i can now in the hope that i doing all i can now in the hope that i can— doing all i can now in the hope that i can build — doing all i can now in the hope that i can build up a little bit of credit— i can build up a little bit of credit in— i can build up a little bit of credit in our gas and electric account— credit in our gas and electric account so that come winter we are not having — account so that come winter we are not having to really stress and think— not having to really stress and think oh— not having to really stress and think oh my gosh how are we going to heat the _ think oh my gosh how are we going to heat the house, put the lights on? all those _ heat the house, put the lights on? all those kind of things. i ithrill all those kind of things. i will brina in all those kind of things. i will bring in richard _ all those kind of things. i will bring in richard layne, - all those kind of things. i will bring in richard layne, the i all those kind of things. tin ll bring in richard layne, the director of social affairs at step change. i have been doing thisjob on of social affairs at step change. i have been doing this job on 5 live for a long time. it will have been slightly unusual conversation to hear the kind of thing that leah is talking about but now it would just be so typical of so many people across the country, won't it who are having to take second jobs and keep their head above the water, if they're able to do that at all. yeah, we are talking millions of people across the country, some of the estimates are that 9 million people are financially struggling across the country at the moment and i am not surprised that she is exhausted, it does sound absolutely exhausting. and it raises really important point that we have been in this cost of living crisis for 12, 14, 15 months and it has been really difficult. and for lots of people what they have done is they have turned to borrowing all they have worn down their savings. so as we head into this winter, actually people's financial resilience for many households is at an all—time low. the savings they might have used up last winter when energy prices were skyrocketing argon. their ability to borrow is maxed out already. so when the government is looking for the need for additional support, they need to factor in the fact that there is no financial resilience left household and we're talking millions of people. and that is people who are working every hour god sends and that has massive implications beyond just being able to pay your energy bill. it has implications on you are not spending money on economy because all you are doing is working. we put stress on people's family lives, on their mental health. that is a cost of the economy and people's lives where people need to go to the doctor and get support mental health support. it isjust get support mental health support. it is just the right thing to do for everybody. it isjust the right thing to do for everybody-— it isjust the right thing to do for eve bod . . , ., , everybody. yeah, there is a broader cost to society. _ everybody. yeah, there is a broader cost to society, as _ everybody. yeah, there is a broader cost to society, as late _ everybody. yeah, there is a broader cost to society, as late was mention there. leah, do take care of yourself and i hope you get to relax a little bit this weekend. take care and thanks for getting in contact. due to speak to you. that is what we are here for, this morning to hear your stories. 08085 909693. are here for, this morning to hear yourstories. 08085 909693. some newsjust yourstories. 08085 909693. some news just to bring you at 9:48am from greater manchester police, who say they have launched a murder inquiry will stop it is after the body of a man was found after officers were called to a burglary. it happened on tuesday morning. officers responded to reports of a dog being stolen in bury. they found a man's body. three men were arrested on suspicion of murder, two have been released on bail. police now say that they are appealing for anyone who saw donald walking his white lab doodle over the last week. so greater manchester police say they have launched a murder inquiry after the body of a man was found after the body of a man was found after officers were called to a burglary. let's return to talking about your energy bills, the impact that it about your energy bills, the impact thatitis about your energy bills, the impact that it is having on you. hayley on the wirral. hi, hayley. we werejust hearing from lear they're taking on a couple ofjobs. i understand you have lost yourjob. i'm so sorry to hear that. was that a recent thing? it was at the start of the year. i had anotherjob lined up and then also fell through because funding was cut for the job as i was about to start. so i'm hoping to start in september but, yeah, it was the start of the year so it has been quite a difficult year financially. i'm so sorry how hard it must be in for those months. what line of work are you doing? t for those months. what line of work are you doing?— are you doing? i was working with the council _ are you doing? i was working with the council with _ are you doing? i was working with the council with schools _ are you doing? i was working with the council with schools and i are you doing? i was working with the council with schools and thenl are you doing? i was working with| the council with schools and then i usually work with children, so child care, schools and then different things helping support people improve their life circumstances. so community, families different things like that. ,., , community, families different things like that. , , , , like that. right, so time is busily been tight- _ like that. right, so time is busily been tight. what _ like that. right, so time is busily been tight. what have _ like that. right, so time is busily been tight. what have you - like that. right, so time is busily been tight. what have you been | like that. right, so time is busily i been tight. what have you been doing in terms of your own finances then given what you are outlining there? and how are you looking at the situation today and all of the stuff that we are talking about around energy costs? it that we are talking about around energy costs?— energy costs? it has been really rim to energy costs? it has been really grim to be _ energy costs? it has been really grim to be honest. _ energy costs? it has been really grim to be honest. i— energy costs? it has been really grim to be honest. i have - energy costs? it has been really grim to be honest. i have cut i energy costs? it has been really i grim to be honest. i have cut back on absolutely everything and it has just felt horrible. i know the previous lady was saying that she feels she has to go underwater. i am under their looking up at everyone at the moment. my rent went up, it is about to go up again. so in the last year it has gone up by at least £150 on top of everything else continuously growing up. the money thatis continuously growing up. the money that is coming, i am really grateful for. it is £200 less than just my total of bills. so it has been my family helping me to just even pay my bills, not including food, not including other things. so it has been a really, really tough. i did have a small amount of savings that has just dwindled completely. have a small amount of savings that hasjust dwindled completely. so it hasjust dwindled completely. so it has been really, really hard. t am has been really, really hard. i am so sorry to _ has been really, really hard. i am so sorry to hear _ has been really, really hard. i am so sorry to hear it. _ has been really, really hard. i am so sorry to hear it. and _ has been really, really hard. i am so sorry to hear it. and when you say that you have cut back on as much as you can, what kind of things are we talking about? what did you have in your life previously that you don't now? and i think you have got a young child as well haven't you in your life?— got a young child as well haven't you in your life? yeah, it is me and m little you in your life? yeah, it is me and my little girl- _ you in your life? yeah, it is me and my little girl. everything i - you in your life? yeah, it is me and my little girl. everything i could i my little girl. everything i could and i'm quite lucky that my dad has helped me so that i can do certain things with my daughter but i used to be able to just not even go on holiday but go out if she wanted something i would get her it if she had been really good. clubs, tv things, internet and broadband, buying things like even clothes for us. everything, food, just getting the basic things. not anything super nice. in every area it isjust i have to look at ways i can do it as minimally as possible. fiend have to look at ways i can do it as minimally as possible.— minimally as possible. and can i ask, 'ust minimally as possible. and can i ask. just give — minimally as possible. and can i ask, just give us _ minimally as possible. and can i ask, just give us a _ minimally as possible. and can i ask, just give us a rough - minimally as possible. and can i ask, just give us a rough idea, l minimally as possible. and can i i ask, just give us a rough idea, what kind of age are you, do you mind sharing that with us? t am kind of age are you, do you mind sharing that with us?— kind of age are you, do you mind sharing that with us? i am 30, i am very young — sharing that with us? i am 30, i am very young sounding, _ sharing that with us? i am 30, i am very young sounding, i _ sharing that with us? i am 30, i am very young sounding, i know! i sharing that with us? i am 30, i am very young sounding, i know! no, i sharing that with us? i am 30, i am| very young sounding, i know! no, it is aood to very young sounding, i know! no, it is good to get _ very young sounding, i know! no, it is good to get a _ very young sounding, i know! no, it is good to get a bit _ very young sounding, i know! no, it is good to get a bit of— very young sounding, i know! no, it is good to get a bit of context i is good to get a bit of context where you are in life. what is it doing to you because i suppose this isn't where you thought you would be at at 30 years of age with a young child. what is it doing view in terms of where you see life playing out here? it terms of where you see life playing out here? ., , terms of where you see life playing out here? .,, , terms of where you see life playing out here? ., , ., , ., ~ out here? it has been horrible, dark lace. i out here? it has been horrible, dark place- i have _ out here? it has been horrible, dark place- i have to _ out here? it has been horrible, dark place. i have to do _ out here? it has been horrible, dark place. i have to do social _ place. i have to do social subscriber to see if they could help because it is external circumstances, things outside my control, energy bills getting out of control. it is all kinds of things, it is quite frustrating. i have worked hard since was iii, i have 2 degrees, i have loads and loads of years work experience and i never thought i would be in this situation. i have always been really good financially, budgeting, frugal, i'm with energy things and i never expected to be in the situation, ever. last year, i couldn't have imagined it. so i'm hoping it will improve when i start my newjob but it is still quite hard with everything going up. i think i'm paying £500 more total costs monthly than i was two years ago just in everything going up so much. yeah, eah. everything going up so much. yeah, yeah- your— everything going up so much. yeah, yeah- your new— everything going up so much. yeah, yeah. your newjob _ everything going up so much. yeah, yeah. your newjob starts _ everything going up so much. yeah, yeah. your newjob starts in - yeah. your newjob starts in september, right? so that is a couple of weeks to go you are going to be starting. so hopefully that will have a reasonable change in your circumstances, hopefully. you must be looking forward to a little bit, right? i must be looking forward to a little bit, riuht? .., �* must be looking forward to a little bit, riuht? �* ., �* must be looking forward to a little bit, riht? �* ., �* ., , bit, right? i can't wait, i'm really excited. bit, right? i can't wait, i'm really excited- i— bit, right? i can't wait, i'm really excited. ithink— bit, right? i can't wait, i'm really excited. i think financially - bit, right? i can't wait, i'm really excited. i think financially when l excited. i think financially when you are a bit better off and your headis you are a bit better off and your head isjust you are a bit better off and your head is just above water at least you have got a bit of disposable income and think maybe i can do this, maybe i can take my daughter out on this day and it is just everything kind of improves your health and improve your mental state, your morale.— health and improve your mental state, your morale. indeed. this is it, richard — state, your morale. indeed. this is it, richard lane, _ state, your morale. indeed. this is it, richard lane, isn't _ state, your morale. indeed. this is it, richard lane, isn't it— state, your morale. indeed. this is it, richard lane, isn't it from - it, richard lane, isn't it from stepchange. people like hayley say i have been frugal, i have got as many qualifications together as i can. i have worked really hard and that line that hayley said there, i never expected that i would be in the situation. you hear that more and more. ., . situation. you hear that more and more. ., , ., more. yeah, it is high do heartbreaking _ more. yeah, it is high do heartbreaking and, - more. yeah, it is high do i heartbreaking and, hayley, more. yeah, it is high do - heartbreaking and, hayley, i'm so sorry to hear that. people are doing anything right and it is more than just being a bit frugal, people have got back on absolutely everything. they have changed the supermarkets they shop in so they can shop around and get the most bargains that they possibly can. but there is nothing to cut and that is what we are hearing all the time. i think what we would say to people in this situation and, sadly, as we have talked about there are millions of people, is if you are worried about your costs, your bills, it is really important to speak to people that you might owe money to, speak to your utility provider if you are worried about missing payments in particular. it is not necessarily going to solve the problem. we know that unfortunately there is no magic wand at the moment to fix these problems but it is better to have those conversations than potentially miss payments without them knowing. there is often a bit of a myth that if you talk to someone and tell them that you are in financial difficulty that you are in financial difficulty thatis that you are in financial difficulty that is going to be a big red flag on your account, whether that is your bank or your energy provider and they're not going to lend to you again or cut your service. that is not going to happen. at the moment, they do understand how much people are struggling and of course it is really important to recognise they have a regulatory obligation to treat their customers fairly, critically during a cost of living crisis. i appreciate that is not going to solve lots of people's problems but it is important to keep talking about these issues stop and particularly to keep talking to people and do something to lower the stag lane stigma around financial difficulty because often lots of people do suffer in silence and are so reluctant to speak up or ask for help. so it is important to have these conversations are recognise there is support out there. �*igg�*zse these conversations are recognise there is support out there. 10096 on that. good luck— there is support out there. 10096 on that. good luck in _ there is support out there. 10096 on that. good luck in the _ there is support out there. 10096 on that. good luck in the new - there is support out there. 10096 on that. good luck in the new job, - that. good luck in the newjob, hayley, i hope that goes well. i’m hayley, i hope that goes well. i'm 'ust auoin hayley, i hope that goes well. i'm just going to _ hayley, i hope that goes well. i�*m just going to say, in terms of speaking to energy companies, the reason my bill is another £25 a month, i rang them on monday and explained the situation and i asked if i could lower it because it is direct debit and they have refused, they said no there is nothing they can do. so in terms of reaching out and things i think some people are doing that. i have certainly done it this week and it was like a slap in the face. there was no help. but there was _ the face. there was no help. but there was no _ the face. there was no help. but there was no help at all. but this is it, richard, we say talk to them and have a conversation but if they turn around and say, sorry, no can do. what then?— turn around and say, sorry, no can do. what then? yeah, of course not eve one do. what then? yeah, of course not everyone is — do. what then? yeah, of course not everyone is going — do. what then? yeah, of course not everyone is going to _ do. what then? yeah, of course not everyone is going to be _ do. what then? yeah, of course not everyone is going to be treating - everyone is going to be treating people as they should be. as we talked a little about earlier, not all energy bills are created equally sadly. young people on direct debits come on standard charges, on prepayment meters who are optically struggling. i would say in circumstances like that please do get in touch with somebody like stepchange or citizens advice, who can advise you on what your options might be. particularly if you're not getting the answer that you want from your utility provider or your bank. it is important to speak to an independent organisation like ourselves and we will do our best to support you in any way that we can. keep doing what you are doing, hayley. life can change fairly quickly, can't it, for the good of the bad so you take care of yourself and best of luck in your newjob. thank you so much, guys. we and best of luck in your new 'ob. thank you so much, guys. we have got this one from — thank you so much, guys. we have got this one from tony _ thank you so much, guys. we have got this one from tony on _ thank you so much, guys. we have got this one from tony on facebook. - this one from tony on facebook. standing charges up again, why, when companies are making big profits? my gas usage was less than my half my gas usage was less than my half my gas standing charge. standing charges, richard, keeps coming up again and again. people not happy about that. if you don't mind suggesting that in about 20 seconds, 30 seconds, richard.— 30 seconds, richard. yeah, i can completely _ 30 seconds, richard. yeah, i can completely understand _ 30 seconds, richard. yeah, i can completely understand why - 30 seconds, richard. yeah, i can completely understand why they | 30 seconds, richard. yeah, i can i completely understand why they are unhappy and we have been pressuring the government and 0fgem to do more. we were talking earlier in the programme about social tariffs. i think there is absolutely going to be think there is absolutely going to he need to introduce a form of tariff that allows people, particular people on lower incomes, to have an affordable, sustainable access to energy and in reality the market is not working for those people at the moment and unfortunately there is no quick, easy fix on moment.— unfortunately there is no quick, easy fix on moment. really powerful calls from hayley _ easy fix on moment. really powerful calls from hayley and _ easy fix on moment. really powerful calls from hayley and leah _ easy fix on moment. really powerful calls from hayley and leah as - easy fix on moment. really powerful calls from hayley and leah as well. | calls from hayley and leah as well. do contribute if you want to carry on listening to us on 5 live. it is time to say goodbye to viewers on bbc news. we are continuing the conversation on 5 live. live from london. this is bbc news. donald trump becomes the first former us president to have his mugshot taken after he's formally arrested georgia. what they're doing is election interference, they are trying to interfere with an election. there's never been anything like it in our country before. this is their way of campaigning. energy bills for people in england, scotland and wales are to fall slightly from october, under a new price cap. and the head of spain's football association — luis rubiales — is expected to resign over his behaviour at the final of the women's world cup. hello, i'm gareth barlow. we start in the us — where donald trump has become the first former president to have his mugshot taken. the photograph was released after mr trump was formally charged