Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240704 : comparemela.com

there was an agreement between one or more persons to achieve the object of the conspiracy and that was set forth in the indictment. the government is really going to set forth a pretty narrow number of charges here and frankly, it would not be unexpected if they had a convention on some and not others —— conviction. it is frankly expected in these types of cases. the indictment _ in these types of cases. the indictment is _ in these types of cases. the indictment is also _ in these types of cases. the indictment is also mentioned six co—conspirators, none have been charged in this indictment. for attorneys, a former department of justice official at a political us to leave i consulted who aided trump's efforts. why do you think they were not charged?— trump's efforts. why do you think they were not charged? that's a good cuestion. i they were not charged? that's a good question- i was _ they were not charged? that's a good question. i was expecting _ they were not charged? that's a good question. i was expecting that - they were not charged? that's a good question. i was expecting that more | question. i was expecting that more than one _ question. i was expecting that more than one person _ question. i was expecting that more than one person will _ question. i was expecting that more than one person will be _ question. i was expecting that more than one person will be charged - question. i was expecting that more than one person will be charged butj than one person will be charged but it was_ than one person will be charged but it was pretty— than one person will be charged but it was pretty creative _ than one person will be charged but it was pretty creative but _ than one person will be charged but it was pretty creative but the - than one person will be charged but it was pretty creative but the part. it was pretty creative but the part of the _ it was pretty creative but the part of the prosecutors _ it was pretty creative but the part of the prosecutors to _ it was pretty creative but the part of the prosecutors to bring - it was pretty creative but the part of the prosecutors to bring it - of the prosecutors to bring it against — of the prosecutors to bring it against only— of the prosecutors to bring it against only donald - of the prosecutors to bring it against only donald trump . of the prosecutors to bring it| against only donald trump at of the prosecutors to bring it - against only donald trump at this stage _ against only donald trump at this stage if— against only donald trump at this stage iffor— against only donald trump at this stage if for no— against only donald trump at this stage. if for no other— against only donald trump at this stage. if for no other reason - against only donald trump at this stage. if for no other reason thenj stage. if for no other reason then it would _ stage. if for no other reason then it would he — stage. if for no other reason then it would be more _ stage. if for no other reason then it would be more expeditious - stage. if for no other reason then it would be more expeditious to i stage. if for no other reason then . it would be more expeditious to get to trial— it would be more expeditious to get to trial of— it would be more expeditious to get to trial of men _ it would be more expeditious to get to trial of men having _ it would be more expeditious to get to trial of men having to _ it would be more expeditious to get to trial of men having to deal - it would be more expeditious to get to trial of men having to deal with l to trial of men having to deal with six or— to trial of men having to deal with six or so— to trial of men having to deal with six or so defendants. _ to trial of men having to deal with six or so defendants. on - to trial of men having to deal with six or so defendants. on top - to trial of men having to deal with six or so defendants. on top of i six or so defendants. on top of which _ six or so defendants. on top of which one or— six or so defendants. on top of which one or more _ six or so defendants. on top of which one or more of— six or so defendants. on top of which one or more of those - six or so defendants. on top of i which one or more of those folks six or so defendants. on top of - which one or more of those folks may be participating — which one or more of those folks may be participating as _ which one or more of those folks may be participating as a _ which one or more of those folks may be participating as a cooperating - be participating as a cooperating witness — be participating as a cooperating witness so— be participating as a cooperating witness so i_ be participating as a cooperating witness. so i think— be participating as a cooperating witness. so i think it— be participating as a cooperating witness. so i think it a _ be participating as a cooperating witness. so i think it a little - be participating as a cooperating witness. so i think it a little tool witness. so i think it a little too early— witness. so i think it a little too early to— witness. so i think it a little too early to tell _ witness. so i think it a little too early to tell where _ witness. so i think it a little too early to tell where that - witness. so i think it a little too early to tell where that is - witness. so i think it a little tool early to tell where that is going, it would — early to tell where that is going, it would not— early to tell where that is going, it would not surprise _ early to tell where that is going, it would not surprise me - early to tell where that is going, it would not surprise me if- early to tell where that is going, it would not surprise me if theyl it would not surprise me if they were _ it would not surprise me if they were charged _ it would not surprise me if they were charged in— it would not surprise me if they were charged in a _ it would not surprise me if they were charged in a subsequent i it would not surprise me if they. were charged in a subsequent case will stop— were charged in a subsequent case will stop it — were charged in a subsequent case will stop it would _ were charged in a subsequent case will stop it would not _ were charged in a subsequent case will stop it would not surprise - were charged in a subsequent case will stop it would not surprise me i will stop it would not surprise me if any— will stop it would not surprise me if any one — will stop it would not surprise me if any one of— will stop it would not surprise me if any one of them _ will stop it would not surprise me if any one of them becomes - will stop it would not surprise me if any one of them becomes a - will stop it would not surprise me - if any one of them becomes a witness or is already _ if any one of them becomes a witness or is already a — if any one of them becomes a witness or is already a witness. _ if any one of them becomes a witness or is already a witness. but _ if any one of them becomes a witness or is already a witness. but i- if any one of them becomes a witness or is already a witness. but i think - or is already a witness. but i think the whole idea _ or is already a witness. but i think the whole idea to _ or is already a witness. but i think the whole idea to not _ or is already a witness. but i think the whole idea to not move - or is already a witness. but i think. the whole idea to not move forward with that _ the whole idea to not move forward with that big — the whole idea to not move forward with that big case _ the whole idea to not move forward with that big case is— the whole idea to not move forward with that big case is to _ the whole idea to not move forward with that big case is to make - the whole idea to not move forward with that big case is to make it - with that big case is to make it mean — with that big case is to make it mean and _ with that big case is to make it mean and lean _ with that big case is to make it mean and lean to _ with that big case is to make it mean and lean to try _ with that big case is to make it mean and lean to try and - with that big case is to make it mean and lean to try and get l with that big case is to make it . mean and lean to try and get the president— mean and lean to try and get the president tried _ mean and lean to try and get the president tried and _ mean and lean to try and get the president tried and in _ president tried and in the prosecutors— president tried and in the prosecutors hopes - president tried and in the i prosecutors hopes convicted president tried and in the - prosecutors hopes convicted before not too _ prosecutors hopes convicted before not too long — prosecutors hopes convicted before not too long can _ prosecutors hopes convicted before not too long-— not too long. can the president's team run out _ not too long. can the president's team run out the _ not too long. can the president's team run out the clock _ not too long. can the president's team run out the clock on - not too long. can the president's team run out the clock on the . not too long. can the president's team run out the clock on the so | not too long. can the president's - team run out the clock on the so the trial does not take place before the next election?— next election? well, look. a lot of control will— next election? well, look. a lot of control will be _ next election? well, look. a lot of control will be with _ next election? well, look. a lot of control will be with the _ next election? well, look. a lot of control will be with the judge - next election? well, look. a lot of control will be with the judge will. control will be with the judge will stop on— control will be with the judge will stop on the — control will be with the judge will stop on the volume _ control will be with the judge will stop on the volume of— control will be with the judge will stop on the volume of the - control will be with the judge will. stop on the volume of the discovery and then— stop on the volume of the discovery and then we — stop on the volume of the discovery and then we go— stop on the volume of the discovery and then we go back— stop on the volume of the discovery and then we go back to _ stop on the volume of the discovery and then we go back to the - and then we go back to the scheduling _ and then we go back to the scheduling issues. - and then we go back to the scheduling issues. how- and then we go back to thej scheduling issues. how fair and then we go back to the . scheduling issues. how fair is and then we go back to the - scheduling issues. how fair is it to ten packed — scheduling issues. how fair is it to ten packed in— scheduling issues. how fair is it to ten packed in with _ scheduling issues. how fair is it to ten packed in with one _ scheduling issues. how fair is it to ten packed in with one trial- scheduling issues. how fair is it to ten packed in with one trial after. ten packed in with one trial after another — ten packed in with one trial after another so— ten packed in with one trial after another so it _ ten packed in with one trial after another. so it is _ ten packed in with one trial after another. so it is a _ ten packed in with one trial after another. so it is a little - ten packed in with one trial after another. so it is a little to- ten packed in with one trial after another. so it is a little to say. l another. so it is a little to say. they— another. so it is a little to say. they will— another. so it is a little to say. they will he _ another. so it is a little to say. they will be crying _ another. so it is a little to say. they will be crying all- another. so it is a little to say. they will be crying all the - another. so it is a little to say. they will be crying all the wayl another. so it is a little to say. - they will be crying all the way that they will— they will be crying all the way that they will need _ they will be crying all the way that they will need more _ they will be crying all the way that they will need more time - they will be crying all the way that . they will need more time to prepare. we have _ they will need more time to prepare. we have heard — they will need more time to prepare. we have heard public— they will need more time to prepare. we have heard public statements- we have heard public statements already— we have heard public statements already from _ we have heard public statements already from his _ we have heard public statements already from his lawyer— we have heard public statements already from his lawyer that - we have heard public statements already from his lawyer that the i already from his lawyer that the government— already from his lawyer that the government has— already from his lawyer that the government has had _ already from his lawyer that the government has had two- already from his lawyer that the government has had two and i already from his lawyer that the. government has had two and half years— government has had two and half years so— government has had two and half years so he — government has had two and half years so he should _ government has had two and half years so he should have - government has had two and half years so he should have two - government has had two and half years so he should have two andi government has had two and half- years so he should have two and half years _ years so he should have two and half years that _ years so he should have two and half years that is— years so he should have two and half years. that is absurd. _ years so he should have two and half years. that is absurd. but _ years so he should have two and half years. that is absurd. but there - years so he should have two and half years. that is absurd. but there is. years. that is absurd. but there is provisions— years. that is absurd. but there is provisions in— years. that is absurd. but there is provisions in the _ years. that is absurd. but there is provisions in the speedy— years. that is absurd. but there is provisions in the speedy trial - provisions in the speedy trial clause — provisions in the speedy trial clause for— provisions in the speedy trial clause for a _ provisions in the speedy trial clause for a trial— provisions in the speedy trial clause for a trial event - provisions in the speedy trial clause for a trial event to - provisions in the speedy trial . clause for a trial event to occur within— clause for a trial event to occur within 70 — clause for a trial event to occur within 70 days, _ clause for a trial event to occur within 70 days, one _ clause for a trial event to occur within 70 days, one of- clause for a trial event to occur within 70 days, one of those i clause for a trial event to occur- within 70 days, one of those depends on providing — within 70 days, one of those depends on providing discovery. _ within 70 days, one of those depends on providing discovery. i— within 70 days, one of those depends on providing discovery. i think- within 70 days, one of those depends on providing discovery. i think were l on providing discovery. i think were also there _ on providing discovery. i think were also there will— on providing discovery. i think were also there will be _ on providing discovery. i think were also there will be substantial- also there will be substantial pretrial— also there will be substantial pretrial motion— also there will be substantial pretrial motion practice, - also there will be substantial- pretrial motion practice, motions to dismiss _ pretrial motion practice, motions to dismiss and — pretrial motion practice, motions to dismiss and some _ pretrial motion practice, motions to dismiss and some will— pretrial motion practice, motions to dismiss and some will relate - pretrial motion practice, motions to dismiss and some will relate to - pretrial motion practice, motions to dismiss and some will relate to the | dismiss and some will relate to the first amendment— dismiss and some will relate to the first amendment claims, _ dismiss and some will relate to the first amendment claims, some - dismiss and some will relate to the | first amendment claims, some may pertain _ first amendment claims, some may pertain to— first amendment claims, some may pertain to advice _ first amendment claims, some may pertain to advice of— first amendment claims, some may pertain to advice of counsel, - first amendment claims, some may pertain to advice of counsel, some. pertain to advice of counsel, some may pertain— pertain to advice of counsel, some may pertain to _ pertain to advice of counsel, some may pertain to issues _ pertain to advice of counsel, some may pertain to issues that - pertain to advice of counsel, somej may pertain to issues that perhaps may pertain to issues that perhaps may not _ may pertain to issues that perhaps may not have _ may pertain to issues that perhaps may not have been _ may pertain to issues that perhaps may not have been even _ may pertain to issues that perhaps may not have been even thought l may pertain to issues that perhapsl may not have been even thought of yet i may not have been even thought of yet i think— may not have been even thought of yet i think there _ may not have been even thought of yet i think there will— may not have been even thought of yet i think there will be _ may not have been even thought of yet i think there will be not - may not have been even thought of yet i think there will be not a - yet i think there will be not a substantial pretrial— yet i think there will be not a | substantial pretrial litigation, yet i think there will be not a . substantial pretrial litigation, a lot of— substantial pretrial litigation, a lot of discovery, _ substantial pretrial litigation, a lot of discovery, so _ substantial pretrial litigation, a lot of discovery, so this - substantial pretrial litigation, a lot of discovery, so this gives l substantial pretrial litigation, a . lot of discovery, so this gives lots of opportunities _ lot of discovery, so this gives lots of opportunities for— lot of discovery, so this gives lots of opportunities for the _ lot of discovery, so this gives lots of opportunities for the defence l lot of discovery, so this gives lotsl of opportunities for the defence to push and — of opportunities for the defence to push and push _ of opportunities for the defence to push and push and _ of opportunities for the defence to push and push and push _ of opportunities for the defence to push and push and push against. of opportunities for the defence to. push and push and push against the calendar— push and push and push against the calendar to — push and push and push against the calendar to prolong _ push and push and push against the calendar to prolong the _ push and push and push against the calendar to prolong the pretrial- calendar to prolong the pretrial stage _ calendar to prolong the pretrial stage to — calendar to prolong the pretrial stage to get _ calendar to prolong the pretrial stage to get past _ calendar to prolong the pretrial stage to get past november. calendar to prolong the pretrial. stage to get past november 2024. calendar to prolong the pretrial- stage to get past november 2024. i want stage to get past november 2024. want to talk about someone who is considered a key witness according to this indictment, that is the former vice president mike pence serving of course under trump and says the former president asked him to turn against the constitution to help overturn election results and help overturn election results and he said that was something he cannot do. let's listen. the he said that was something he cannot do. let's listen.— do. let's listen. the first time i heard in early _ do. let's listen. the first time i heard in early december - do. let's listen. the first time i l heard in early december summer suggested that as vice president i would _ suggested that as vice president i would he — suggested that as vice president i would be able to decide which votes to accept— would be able to decide which votes to accept or reject, i knew that it was false — to accept or reject, i knew that it was false i— to accept or reject, i knew that it was false. i dismiss it out of hand, but sadly— was false. i dismiss it out of hand, but sadly the president was surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers _ surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept tell him what his itching _ lawyers that kept tell him what his itching ears wanted to hear, while i'm itching ears wanted to hear, while i'm in_ itching ears wanted to hear, while i'm in my— itching ears wanted to hear, while i'm in my case to him what i understood was my oath of the constitution to require the president ultimately continued to demand — president ultimately continued to demand that i choose him over the constitution.— demand that i choose him over the constitution. congressman davis, i want to bring _ constitution. congressman davis, i want to bring you _ constitution. congressman davis, i want to bring you in _ constitution. congressman davis, i want to bring you in on _ constitution. congressman davis, i want to bring you in on this. - constitution. congressman davis, i want to bring you in on this. what. want to bring you in on this. what you make of the approach of the former price president that he's taking here, it seems like a thin line, of course one hand condemning january the 6th saying he cannot stop the election certification, on the other hand defending the former president by saying, he was listening to his lawyers. that is mike pence- — listening to his lawyers. that is mike pence. he's _ listening to his lawyers. that is mike pence. he's being - listening to his lawyers. that is| mike pence. he's being brutally honest. i was with vice president pentz until be counted and announced the last electoral sleep for the last seat in the country and officially, namesjoe biden as president of the united states on january the 6th, on the early morning ofjanuary the 7th. january the 6th, on the early morning of january the 7th. but january the 6th, on the early morning ofjanuary the 7th. but mike pence will go down in our nations history as one of the most courageous elected officials that our country has seen. he was very close to donald trump there were not too many meetings that i had with the president during his time in the white house that mike pence is not a part of. mike is right. donald trump was looking for people to justify what he thought was a stolen election. and he found them. those are the crackpot lawyers that vice president pence is talking about. my thought is, how are they going to be charged byjack smith? are thought is, how are they going to be charged by jack smith? are they the co—conspirators, we have to assume that they are, why are they not been brought for charges, they are the ones that help give the president this idea that somehow a vice president, his vice president, mike pence to determine who winds in election without thinking that kamala harris could do the exact same thing in 2024. it is absurd, pence knew it would is absurd and he is telling the truth not because those were the facts on the ground prior to january the 6th, 2021. following up on the point you have made, you said you were with the vice president in that moment and initiative part of this indictment where it shows, at leastjack smith's team plays out that members of the former president's team or try to contact senators after the riots had happened and rioters had been cleared out in exclude certification would go for try to convince them to not move forward so did you get a sense they are of the pressure that the former vice president was under?- pressure that the former vice president was under? pressure that the former vice resident was under? ~ ~' . ., , president was under? mike pence was under immense _ president was under? mike pence was under immense pressure, _ president was under? mike pence was under immense pressure, yes - president was under? mike pence was under immense pressure, yes i - president was under? mike pence was under immense pressure, yes i did . under immense pressure, yes i did get a sense of that, even after we reconvened, he was under pressure from members of the house in the senate who were in the chamber. but he did what he needed to do based on his interpretation in my interpretation of the constitution that day. we did ourjob. we did exactly the constitution told us we should do. but mike pence, he was in danger, all of us were in danger of that day when people were evacuated from our respective chambers. and while we were waiting to reconvene i guarantee he had numerous attempts from the president's team to change what he was doing. to delay proceedings. that is typical of the trauma team. if you cannot get your race delay, delay and that is exactly what they will try to do here and they try to make mike pence the bad guy, they almost got him killed onjanuary the the bad guy, they almost got him killed on january the 6th the bad guy, they almost got him killed onjanuary the 6th and they were going to continue to make jack smith and anyone else a bad person. i can't wait to see if jack smith calls one of these crackpot lawyers to testify because that will be donald trump's next victim because he will say, that is their fault that he is on trial right now. and half of america will believe him. get your take on this as well, brian lanza, the role of the former vice president i do think donald trump is seeing him at the moment in the possibility that he could be on the stand testifying at a try. it is important — stand testifying at a try. it is important to _ stand testifying at a try. it is important to understand what the former— important to understand what the former vice president said last week or even_ former vice president said last week or even ten— former vice president said last week or even ten days ago that donald trump's — or even ten days ago that donald trump's behaviour with respect to january— trump's behaviour with respect to january the 6th was reckless but not criminal— january the 6th was reckless but not criminal so _ january the 6th was reckless but not criminal so if everyone has his feet in mike _ criminal so if everyone has his feet in mike pence and believe he is a man— in mike pence and believe he is a man of— in mike pence and believe he is a man of high integrity and a honest person— man of high integrity and a honest person and — man of high integrity and a honest person and believed he save this country. — person and believed he save this country, they have to believe him that he _ country, they have to believe him that he himself believes, being a lawyer as — that he himself believes, being a lawyer as he is, that the activity of trump — lawyer as he is, that the activity of trump was reckless. i think everyone _ of trump was reckless. i think everyone agrees with that but pentz does not _ everyone agrees with that but pentz does not cede the bridge to be criminal — does not cede the bridge to be criminal i_ does not cede the bridge to be criminal. i think that is where president— criminal. i think that is where president trump will try to hang his hat. president trump will try to hang his hat he _ president trump will try to hang his hat he will— president trump will try to hang his hat. he will try to use those statements that pence said to a few days ago _ statements that pence said to a few days ago and compare them to the day question— days ago and compare them to the day question is— days ago and compare them to the day question is to the conservative movement and that is what they do well but _ movement and that is what they do well but pence late himself in trouble — well but pence late himself in trouble ground he proclaimed being a lawyer— trouble ground he proclaimed being a lawyer in_ trouble ground he proclaimed being a lawyer in his own right, that the activity— lawyer in his own right, that the activity of— lawyer in his own right, that the activity of what president trump did was reckless but not criminal. where do ou was reckless but not criminal. where do you think — was reckless but not criminal. where do you think this _ was reckless but not criminal. where do you think this leaves _ was reckless but not criminal. where do you think this leaves the - was reckless but not criminal. where do you think this leaves the former l do you think this leaves the former vice president as well who is in the running for the republican nomination to be the next president as well? ., . ., . ., , as well? zero chance of being the nominee to _ as well? zero chance of being the nominee to be _ as well? zero chance of being the nominee to be the _ as well? zero chance of being the nominee to be the republican - nominee to be the republican president. nominee to be the republican president-— nominee to be the republican resident. ., . ~ , president. zero chance? also because we know many — president. zero chance? also because we know many of— president. zero chance? also because we know many of the _ president. zero chance? also because we know many of the former - president. zero chance? also because| we know many of the former president supporters are not pleased with the former vice president and believe he did have the authority to not certify the election. sarah you now, i want to ask on the role of the former vice president and some of the witnesses that we may see take the witnesses that we may see take the stand here. we actually see the former president take the stand? in my nerdy lawyer brain i am fascinated by the witnesses we are going to see at this trial, should it go forward. so we are going to see the most high—level officials testifying at trial, cross—examination, essentially going to be a of high level folks who will testify. ultimately, the former president could decide to testify if he wanted to do so. that is his decision and only his decision to make. you can consult with his boys but ultimately that decision is his. he is hard to keep quiet. we have seen so far, i don't know if it would be in his interest to testify but he certainly may choose to do so, ultimately. i but he certainly may choose to do so, ultimately.— so, ultimately. i also want to talk about something _ so, ultimately. i also want to talk about something that _ so, ultimately. i also want to talk about something that the - so, ultimately. i also want to talk about something that the former| about something that the former attorney general, bill barr, an indictment on cnn last night, having a message for the trump's loyal followers. i a message for the trump's loyal followers. ~ . a message for the trump's loyal followers. ,, ., ., followers. i think we all have rima followers. i think we all have primary loyalty _ followers. i think we all have primary loyalty to _ followers. i think we all have primary loyalty to the - followers. i think we all have - primary loyalty to the constitution of the _ primary loyalty to the constitution of the country not to any particular individual— of the country not to any particular individual and at some point trying to defend — individual and at some point trying to defend the indefensible really demeans you. to defend the indefensible really demeans yon-— to defend the indefensible really demeans you. david, what do you think on that? _ demeans you. david, what do you think on that? |_ demeans you. david, what do you think on that? i don't _ demeans you. david, what do you think on that? i don't agree - demeans you. david, what do you think on that? i don't agree with i think on that? i don't agree with the former— think on that? i don't agree with the former attorney _ think on that? i don't agree with the former attorney general. . think on that? i don't agree with the former attorney general. i l think on that? i don't agree with i the former attorney general. i also think— the former attorney general. i also think a _ the former attorney general. i also think a couple _ the former attorney general. i also think a couple of— the former attorney general. i also think a couple of things _ the former attorney general. i also think a couple of things which - the former attorney general. i also think a couple of things which is . the former attorney general. i also think a couple of things which is i l think a couple of things which is i think— think a couple of things which is i think part — think a couple of things which is i think part of _ think a couple of things which is i think part of trump's _ think a couple of things which is i think part of trump's defence - think a couple of things which is i think part of trump's defence is i think a couple of things which is i i think part of trump's defence is not to take the — think part of trump's defence is not to take the stand, _ think part of trump's defence is not to take the stand, part _ think part of trump's defence is not to take the stand, part of— think part of trump's defence is not to take the stand, part of it- think part of trump's defence is not to take the stand, part of it is- think part of trump's defence is not to take the stand, part of it is to . to take the stand, part of it is to make as — to take the stand, part of it is to make as many— to take the stand, part of it is to make as many statements - to take the stand, part of it is to make as many statements on i to take the stand, part of it is to. make as many statements on the to take the stand, part of it is to - make as many statements on the case as he _ make as many statements on the case as he can _ make as many statements on the case as he can now— make as many statements on the case as he can now and _ make as many statements on the case as he can now and that _ as he can now and that will hopefully— as he can now and that will hopefully get _ as he can now and that will hopefully get the _ as he can now and that will hopefully get the ears - as he can now and that will hopefully get the ears of. as he can now and that will- hopefully get the ears ofjurors so that it _ hopefully get the ears ofjurors so that it does — hopefully get the ears ofjurors so that it does not _ hopefully get the ears ofjurors so that it does not have _ hopefully get the ears ofjurors so that it does not have to _ hopefully get the ears ofjurors so that it does not have to undergo i that it does not have to undergo cross—examination _ that it does not have to undergo cross—examination which - that it does not have to undergo cross—examination which i - that it does not have to undergo cross—examination which i think| cross—examination which i think would _ cross—examination which i think would be — cross—examination which i think would be devastating for- cross—examination which i think would be devastating for him. l cross—examination which i think. would be devastating for him. so, cross—examination which i think- would be devastating for him. so, it be-s would be devastating for him. so, it begs for— would be devastating for him. so, it begs for an— would be devastating for him. so, it begs for an interesting _ would be devastating for him. so, it begs for an interesting circus, - would be devastating for him. so, it begs for an interesting circus, if- begs for an interesting circus, if you will — begs for an interesting circus, if ou will. ., ., ~ begs for an interesting circus, if ou will. ., ., ,, ., ..,, you will. david, looking at the case that the former, _ you will. david, looking at the case that the former, special _ you will. david, looking at the case that the former, special counsel, l that the former, special counsel, brought here, of course there is no guarantee of a conviction, do you think he took a risk in bringing this case?— think he took a risk in bringing this case? no. i think this is... look, this case? no. i think this is... look. it's _ this case? no. i think this is... look. it's a _ this case? no. i think this is... look, it's a case _ this case? no. i think this is... look, it's a case that _ this case? no. i think this is... look, it's a case that had - this case? no. i think this is... look, it's a case that had to i this case? no. i think this is... j look, it's a case that had to be brought — look, it's a case that had to be brought. jack _ look, it's a case that had to be brought. jack smith _ look, it's a case that had to be brought. jack smith and - look, it's a case that had to be brought. jack smith and his - brought. jack smith and his folks will make — brought. jack smith and his folks will make the _ brought. jack smith and his folks will make the best _ brought. jack smith and his folks will make the best of _ brought. jack smith and his folks will make the best of it, - brought. jack smith and his folks will make the best of it, i think. brought. jack smith and his folksj will make the best of it, i think it is a very— will make the best of it, i think it is a very compelling _ will make the best of it, i think it is a very compelling case, - will make the best of it, i think it is a very compelling case, but. will make the best of it, i think it is a very compelling case, but i. is a very compelling case, but i think— is a very compelling case, but i think it — is a very compelling case, but i think it is — is a very compelling case, but i think it is a _ is a very compelling case, but i think it is a case _ is a very compelling case, but i think it is a case that— is a very compelling case, but i think it is a case that has- is a very compelling case, but i think it is a case that has to - is a very compelling case, but i think it is a case that has to be| think it is a case that has to be brought — think it is a case that has to be brought the _ think it is a case that has to be brought. the way _ think it is a case that has to be brought. the way i _ think it is a case that has to be brought. the way i look - think it is a case that has to be brought. the way i look at - think it is a case that has to be brought. the way i look at trial work— brought. the way i look at trial work is — brought. the way i look at trial work is to— brought. the way i look at trial work is to say— brought. the way i look at trial work is to say that _ brought. the way i look at trial work is to say that when - brought. the way i look at trial work is to say that when you i brought. the way i look at trial. work is to say that when you have brought. the way i look at trial- work is to say that when you have a really _ work is to say that when you have a really great case _ work is to say that when you have a really great case and _ work is to say that when you have a really great case and walk- work is to say that when you have a really great case and walk into - work is to say that when you have a really great case and walk into a . really great case and walk into a 'ury really great case and walk into a jury your— really great case and walk into a jury your changes _ really great case and walk into a jury your changes drop - really great case and walk into a jury your changes drop down - really great case and walk into a jury your changes drop down to. jury your changes drop down to 50-50 — jury your changes drop down to 50-50 and _ jury your changes drop down to 50-50 and if— jury your changes drop down to 50—50. and if you _ jury your changes drop down to 50—50. and if you have - jury your changes drop down to 50—50. and if you have a - jury your changes drop down to 50—50. and if you have a dog l jury your changes drop down toi 50—50. and if you have a dog of jury your changes drop down to - 50—50. and if you have a dog of the case and _ 50—50. and if you have a dog of the case and your— 50—50. and if you have a dog of the case and your defence _ 50—50. and if you have a dog of the case and your defence lawyer - 50—50. and if you have a dog of the case and your defence lawyer and l case and your defence lawyer and you think you're _ case and your defence lawyer and you think you're going _ case and your defence lawyer and you think you're going to _ case and your defence lawyer and you think you're going to lose _ case and your defence lawyer and you think you're going to lose and - case and your defence lawyer and you think you're going to lose and you - think you're going to lose and you walk into — think you're going to lose and you walk into a — think you're going to lose and you walk into a courtroom _ think you're going to lose and you walk into a courtroom and - think you're going to lose and you walk into a courtroom and you - walk into a courtroom and you suddenly— walk into a courtroom and you suddenly your— walk into a courtroom and you suddenly your changes- walk into a courtroom and you suddenly your changes rise i walk into a courtroom and you suddenly your changes rise to| walk into a courtroom and you - suddenly your changes rise to 50—50. so it's— suddenly your changes rise to 50—50. so it's hard _ suddenly your changes rise to 50—50. so it's hard to — suddenly your changes rise to 50—50. so it's hard to see _ suddenly your changes rise to 50—50. so it's hard to see what _ suddenly your changes rise to 50—50. so it's hard to see what happens- so it's hard to see what happens when _ so it's hard to see what happens when you — so it's hard to see what happens when you get— so it's hard to see what happens when you get into _ so it's hard to see what happens when you get into a _ so it's hard to see what happens when you get into a courtroom. i so it's hard to see what happensj when you get into a courtroom. i think— when you get into a courtroom. i thinkjack— when you get into a courtroom. i thinkjack smith's _ when you get into a courtroom. i thinkjack smith's team - when you get into a courtroom. i thinkjack smith's team did i when you get into a courtroom. ii thinkjack smith's team did appear in this— thinkjack smith's team did appear in this indictment _ thinkjack smith's team did appear in this indictment pulling - thinkjack smith's team did appear in this indictment pulling together| in this indictment pulling together some _ in this indictment pulling together some compelling _ in this indictment pulling together some compelling evidence - in this indictment pulling together some compelling evidence that. in this indictment pulling together. some compelling evidence that will make _ some compelling evidence that will make the _ some compelling evidence that will make the best _ some compelling evidence that will make the best of _ some compelling evidence that will make the best of it _ some compelling evidence that will make the best of it and _ some compelling evidence that will make the best of it and i— some compelling evidence that will make the best of it and i think- some compelling evidence that will make the best of it and i think they have a _ make the best of it and i think they have a pretty— make the best of it and i think they have a pretty darn _ make the best of it and i think they have a pretty darn good _ make the best of it and i think they have a pretty darn good chance i make the best of it and i think they have a pretty darn good chance of. have a pretty darn good chance of succeeding — have a pretty darn good chance of succeeding do _ have a pretty darn good chance of succeeding-— succeeding. do you think the president — succeeding. do you think the president is _ succeeding. do you think the president is at _ succeeding. do you think the president is at all _ succeeding. do you think the president is at all worried i succeeding. do you think the president is at all worried at | succeeding. do you think the i president is at all worried at this point on the prospect of being convicted in this case cosmic i think he has to be and that's part of the reason why he jumped into this presidential race back in october. he this presidential race back in october. , . ., ., , october. he predicted all of this town feel that _ october. he predicted all of this town feel that the _ october. he predicted all of this town feel that the opposition i october. he predicted all of this town feel that the opposition is | town feel that the opposition is that this — town feel that the opposition is that this what he is calling deep state _ that this what he is calling deep state would never stop and i think that is— state would never stop and i think that is the — state would never stop and i think that is the first testimony was right— that is the first testimony was right when you look at what happened in the _ right when you look at what happened in the manhattan district attorney stretching the law to bring those charges — stretching the law to bring those charges so in his mind he has otis been _ charges so in his mind he has otis been worried about, that is why he is the proactive approach of announcing his presidency when he did and _ announcing his presidency when he did and that is why he has been able to capitalise off of these indictments whether politically or whether — indictments whether politically or whether through his fundraising mechanisms. it is truly remarkable since _ mechanisms. it is truly remarkable since he _ mechanisms. it is truly remarkable since he has — mechanisms. it is truly remarkable since he has been indicted from the new york case he has gained ten points, _ new york case he has gained ten points, 10—12 points are nothing anyone — points, 10—12 points are nothing anyone predicted that in his stamina is truly— anyone predicted that in his stamina is truly unbelievable. we are looking — is truly unbelievable. we are looking at quite friendly, and something dramatic happens in that will not _ something dramatic happens in that will not be _ something dramatic happens in that will not be a new indictment, donald trump _ will not be a new indictment, donald trump being a bully the republican nomination while he's out on bail for four— nomination while he's out on bail for fourjurisdictions._ nomination while he's out on bail for fourjurisdictions. for four 'urisdictions. speaking on fellows for fourjurisdictions. speaking on fellows to talk _ for fourjurisdictions. speaking on fellows to talk what _ for fourjurisdictions. speaking on fellows to talk what we _ for fourjurisdictions. speaking on fellows to talk what we saw i for fourjurisdictions. speaking on fellows to talk what we saw on i for fourjurisdictions. speaking on | fellows to talk what we saw on the police conditions that we saw from the arraignment today —— release conditions. thejudge reminded him that it involves several conditions include that they must not violate any laws, must appear in court when required, but he must not communicate with anyone known to be a witness in the case, unless it is through an attorney. so sarah, how important are these conditions and that they are also followed? so those are all pretty standard conditions. i think the complexity here is the scope of the witness list and the government side. and the fact that some of those individuals are likely very close to trump, and so trump's t may try to push back on some of those restrictions if they want to continue some of those relationships or they may abide by those restrictions. we will have to see. but i think generally those are restrictions you would see in most cases of this type, nothing too out of the ordinary there.— of the ordinary there. david, your thoughts? _ of the ordinary there. david, your thoughts? you — of the ordinary there. david, your thoughts? you know, _ of the ordinary there. david, your thoughts? you know, i— of the ordinary there. david, your thoughts? you know, i don't- of the ordinary there. david, your. thoughts? you know, i don't really know what more _ thoughts? you know, i don't really know what more i _ thoughts? you know, i don't really know what more i can _ thoughts? you know, i don't really know what more i can really i thoughts? you know, i don't really know what more i can really add i thoughts? you know, i don't reallyj know what more i can really add to that _ know what more i can really add to that i_ know what more i can really add to that ithink— know what more i can really add to that. ithinkthat_ know what more i can really add to that. | think that pretty— know what more i can really add to that. i think that pretty much i know what more i can really add to| that. i think that pretty much sums it up _ that. i think that pretty much sums it u -. �* , . �* ., that. i think that pretty much sums itu, �* �* ., it up. bryan, i'm wondering, some of the witnesses — it up. bryan, i'm wondering, some of the witnesses that _ it up. bryan, i'm wondering, some of the witnesses that might _ it up. bryan, i'm wondering, some of the witnesses that might be - it up. bryan, i'm wondering, some of the witnesses that might be called i the witnesses that might be called to this case, they are people who do have ties to the former president, so how difficult is that condition going to be?— going to be? listen, i think our s stem going to be? listen, i think our system is _ going to be? listen, i think our system is going _ going to be? listen, i think our system is going to _ going to be? listen, i think our system is going to have - going to be? listen, i think our system is going to have to i going to be? listen, i think our system is going to have to put | going to be? listen, i think our i system is going to have to put faith that the _ system is going to have to put faith that the president is going abide by these _ that the president is going abide by these agreements and i think those witnesses, — these agreements and i think those witnesses, especially some of those six, witnesses, especially some of those six. the _ witnesses, especially some of those six. the six — witnesses, especially some of those six, the six co—conspirators, are going _ six, the six co—conspirators, are going to — six, the six co—conspirators, are going to have to pay attention, and ithink— going to have to pay attention, and i think most important thing is that we have no— i think most important thing is that we have no reason to believe the president— we have no reason to believe the president is not going to abide by the terms — president is not going to abide by the terms going forward. people are going _ the terms going forward. people are going to _ the terms going forward. people are going to speculate, and that is fine, _ going to speculate, and that is fine, that's what politics is and that is— fine, that's what politics is and that is what tv does, but this is not the — that is what tv does, but this is not the first time he has been given this restriction, he has... this is a spent — this restriction, he has... this is a spent second federal indictment. he is— a spent second federal indictment. he is going to continue to follow the rules— he is going to continue to follow the rules he has been given. congressman, i want to get your thoughts on this as well.- thoughts on this as well. look, there's nobody _ thoughts on this as well. look, there's nobody who _ thoughts on this as well. look, there's nobody who gains i thoughts on this as well. look, i there's nobody who gains friends by calling people excessively on a daily basis than president trump. i doubt he has even talked to the six unindicted co—conspirators in a while, but that does not stop him from talking to many, many people on a regular basis, and that will continue to grow. 1.i a regular basis, and that will continue to grow. u want to make. there should be zero speculation that donald trump is going to testify in this trial. he would make jack nicholson in a few good men look like an incredible witness! d0 look like an incredible witness! do ou look like an incredible witness! do you agree that the former president's lawyers will be advising him to certainly not take the stand? yeah, it would be incredibly hard for him to testify, for a lot of reasons. his personality, for one, for a second, all of the public statements he has already made which willjust be fodderfor cross—examination here, so it would be very difficult for him to make the choice to testify. that said, it is again the defendant's choice, and so his lawyers may advise him strongly against it, he may choose to do that at his own peril. i think it is likely he does not do that, but it certainly is possible. tqm. it is likely he does not do that, but it certainly is possible. ok, so those are the _ but it certainly is possible. ok, so those are the release _ but it certainly is possible. ok, so those are the release conditions l but it certainly is possible. ok, so . those are the release conditions we were just talking about, but looking also at the political thought of all of this, bryan, you werejust talking about the fact that the former president has been able to solidify his support not only among his base but among public and voters as well, picking up points in the polls, also able to fund raise off the back of these indictments, as he is planning to do with this one, already is doing with this one, and he is holding a rally next week in new hampshire on tuesday for select us spec to see there? ah, new hampshire on tuesday for select us spec to see there?— us spec to see there? a cheering crowd. a welcoming _ us spec to see there? a cheering crowd. a welcoming audience i us spec to see there? a cheering crowd. a welcoming audience to l crowd. a welcoming audience to president — crowd. a welcoming audience to president trump. the reality is, when _ president trump. the reality is, when it— president trump. the reality is, when it comes to politics, and lease in this— when it comes to politics, and lease in this particular fight, the president does really well. he has a common— president does really well. he has a common enemy, which is washington, dc, common enemy, which is washington, dc. which— common enemy, which is washington, dc. which is— common enemy, which is washington, dc, which is the elite class, the liberal— dc, which is the elite class, the liberal lead that is a good boogie man, _ liberal lead that is a good boogie man. but— liberal lead that is a good boogie man, but there is going to be cheering _ man, but there is going to be cheering crowds in new hampshire, i have no— cheering crowds in new hampshire, i have no doubt. he won the primary there _ have no doubt. he won the primary there in_ have no doubt. he won the primary there in 2016, and he has been maintaining a strong foothold there and the _ maintaining a strong foothold there and the base is what the base is. they— and the base is what the base is. they support him and they are not going _ they support him and they are not going to _ they support him and they are not going to let another indictments low down their— going to let another indictments low down their continued support for this president.— down their continued support for this president. bryan, i also to get this president. bryan, i also to get this question _ this president. bryan, i also to get this question into _ this president. bryan, i also to get this question into you _ this president. bryan, i also to get this question into you and - this president. bryan, i also to get this question into you and the i this question into you and the former congressman. how do you explain the fact that the former president is able to actually gain on the fact that he has been indicted three times in these trials? i indicted three times in these trials? ~ f , indicted three times in these trials? ~' j , ,., indicted three times in these trials? ~' j , . trials? i think they're 'ust so much cross to trials? i think they're 'ust so much gross to satisfaction i trials? i think they're just so much gross to satisfaction with - trials? i think they're just so much gross to satisfaction with joe i gross to satisfaction with joe biden, — gross to satisfaction with joe biden, and that is reflected in the polls _ biden, and that is reflected in the polls. sienna showed them tied at 43 nationally— polls. sienna showed them tied at 43 nationally though which actually means— nationally though which actually means that in the electoral college, president _ means that in the electoral college, president rupp is winning. i think the gross — president rupp is winning. i think the gross to satisfaction with joe biden, _ the gross to satisfaction with joe biden, the scandals with hunter, allow— biden, the scandals with hunter, allow trump to rise and be that alternative to what people view as a corrupt _ alternative to what people view as a corrupt state here in washington him and that— corrupt state here in washington him and that is— corrupt state here in washington him and that is to the president doesn't advantage. ifjoe biden were performing really well it be difficult for donald trump to gain this traction, but the fact is doing so poorly— this traction, but the fact is doing so poorly almost made it easier to become _ so poorly almost made it easier to become that alternative to that poor route _ become that alternative to that poor route that _ become that alternative to that poor route that joe become that alternative to that poor route thatjoe biden become that alternative to that poor route that joe biden appears to be taking _ route that joe biden appears to be taking this country.— taking this country. congressman, what are your _ taking this country. congressman, what are your thoughts _ taking this country. congressman, what are your thoughts on - taking this country. congressman, what are your thoughts on this? i taking this country. congressman, i what are your thoughts on this? what do yourformer what are your thoughts on this? what do your former constituents tell you about their support for president trump? about their support for president trum - ? , ., ' about their support for president trum? , .,' ., trump? first off, i agree with everything — trump? first off, i agree with everything iztryan _ trump? first off, i agree with everything bryan just - trump? first off, i agree with everything bryan just said, i trump? first off, i agree with. everything bryanjust said, and trump? first off, i agree with i everything bryanjust said, and i willjust hearken back to 2016. just as millions of americans that lived in very pro—hillary areas could not believe that a majority of americans in states where the electoral votes mattered voted for donald trump could have done that, and my constituents, who voted for donald trump in my district, that was even a 50-50 trump in my district, that was even a 50—50 district, many of them cannot believe thatjoe biden was able to beat him, and they still cannot believe it, and that allows donald trump to continue to do what he does best, and that is play the victim. you're going to see donald trump in states that are really primary and caucus states i think get stronger, because he does have a case —— early primary. when you see the justice to permit offer hunter biden a really good plea—bargain thatis biden a really good plea—bargain that is no longer applicable right now, compared to what a republican would do, could you imagine? donald trump would do, could you imagine? donald trumer or eric trump or of anke the l may treat it with a sweetheart plea deal until thejudge the l may treat it with a sweetheart plea deal until the judge said, the l may treat it with a sweetheart plea deal until thejudge said, hang on a second —— ivanka? that is what a lot of americans see right now and especially those identified as republicans and he is going to continue, as bryan and i have said earlier, to gain supporters with more and more indictments. d0 earlier, to gain supporters with more and more indictments. do you auree more and more indictments. do you a . ree with more and more indictments. do you agree with how _ more and more indictments. do you agree with how the _ more and more indictments. do you agree with how the department i more and more indictments. do you agree with how the department of l agree with how the department of justice is being characterised in these cases? i justice is being characterised in these cases?— justice is being characterised in these cases? ~ ., ., , these cases? i think we are really comparing _ these cases? i think we are really comparing two — these cases? i think we are really comparing two things _ these cases? i think we are really comparing two things that - these cases? i think we are really comparing two things that cannot j these cases? i think we are really i comparing two things that cannot be compared, right? just because the current president's son is being investigated, there is a process that that case has come a little snow compares with the case that is, and he cases, brautigan state president, so i think there is some artful descriptions —— brautigan state president. the fact of the matter is, there a plea worked out, that plea did not go through. that is frankly not an unusual scenario. it is not infrequent. there are some disagreements at the time of the plea, the plea does not make it through, the teams, the defence attorneys, the prosecutors, go back, they hammer out some things and they eventually present a revised agreement that ultimately goes through, so that does happen. the fact that it happened in the case like this is a little bit unusual. we would expect that those things were worked out beforehand, but i just think we are really comparing two things that don't have any comparison. i two things that don't have any comparison-— two things that don't have any comparison. two things that don't have any comarison. ., ., ., ,, ., ., comparison. i want to talk now about one of the former _ comparison. i want to talk now about one of the former president's - comparison. i want to talk now about one of the former president's rivals l one of the former president's rivals for the presidential nomination, republican governor ron desantis of florida. he has responded to the indictment saying the following... this is what he said yesterday, in response to the indictment. sarah, i just want to get your reaction to that, as we were talking about the department ofjustice and how it has been characterised. 50. department ofjustice and how it has been characterised.— been characterised. so, i mean, to that last point _ been characterised. so, i mean, to that last point about _ been characterised. so, i mean, to that last point about the _ been characterised. so, i mean, to that last point about the folks i been characterised. so, i mean, to| that last point about the folks need to have a right to remove their case to have a right to remove their case to their own jurisdiction is a little bit wild to me, right? the latter requires that the case be brought in the venue where the conduct underlying the case occurred. and so in some instances, in some cases, that can be more than one spot, in other cases, there is only one location where that case can be brought, and so there is a process by which venue can be changed if it is absolutely impossible for an individual to get a fair trial impossible for an individual to get a fairtrial in impossible for an individual to get a fair trial in a particular location, but in the neck it is very hard to do that, and the most appropriate for a case in my view, putting on both my former prosecutor hat and my defence attorney hat, for a case to be brought in the location where the conduct underlying that case occurred, that location has the strongest public interest in the case being brought there. bryan, what is your— case being brought there. bryan, what is your thought _ case being brought there. bryan, what is your thought on - case being brought there. bryan, what is your thought on that? - what is your thought on that? listen, i would say that if gandhi was a _ listen, i would say that if gandhi was a republican, he would never be found _ was a republican, he would never be found not_ was a republican, he would never be found not guilty in washington, dc. the reality— found not guilty in washington, dc. the reality is, it is a partisan town— the reality is, it is a partisan town of— the reality is, it is a partisan town of the people who play in the court _ town of the people who play in the court systems get approved, are partisan _ court systems get approved, are partisan people, if you look at who the judge — partisan people, if you look at who the judge is, partisan people, if you look at who thejudge is, she comes partisan people, if you look at who the judge is, she comes from the law firm that— the judge is, she comes from the law firm that represented hunter biden, she is_ firm that represented hunter biden, she is a _ firm that represented hunter biden, she is a democratic donor, so if you really want — she is a democratic donor, so if you really want the american people to look at _ really want the american people to look at president trump and look at this indictment in a clear eye, it is almost — this indictment in a clear eye, it is almost the last place they need to have _ is almost the last place they need to have it— is almost the last place they need to have it is washington, dc, where itiust _ to have it is washington, dc, where itiust reeks— to have it is washington, dc, where itjust reeks of partisanship in a partisan — itjust reeks of partisanship in a partisan city. if the case is so strong, — partisan city. if the case is so strong, it doesn't matter the jurisdiction should be, because the case is _ jurisdiction should be, because the case is strong. it was them want to id case is strong. it was them want to go after— case is strong. it was them want to go aftertrump, and make case is strong. it was them want to go after trump, and make their strong — go after trump, and make their strong case and have a case that is exhibit— strong case and have a case that is exhibit hy— strong case and have a case that is exhibit by the vast majority of the public, _ exhibit by the vast majority of the public, they almost give president trunip _ public, they almost give president trump what he wants. in west virginia, — trump what he wants. in west virginia, if— trump what he wants. in west virginia, if the case is strong, the miracle _ virginia, if the case is strong, the miracle carry— virginia, if the case is strong, the miracle carry it there, just like they— miracle carry it there, just like they claimed the merit will carry it in washington, dc. i don't believe it with _ in washington, dc. i don't believe it with dc— in washington, dc. i don't believe it with dc is — in washington, dc. i don't believe it will. dc is a deeply partisan city~ — it will. dc is a deeply partisan city~ you _ it will. dc is a deeply partisan city. you think thanksgiving is partisan when you have people, faniities— partisan when you have people, families who have different political positions? dc is ten times more _ political positions? dc is ten times more partisan than anything you can imagine. _ more partisan than anything you can imagine, and there is no way anybody can convince — imagine, and there is no way anybody can convince me that a republican can get— can convince me that a republican can get a — can convince me that a republican can get a fair trial, much letch puhtican— can get a fair trial, much letch publican president, who is looking to destroy— publican president, who is looking to destroy dc. do publican president, who is looking to destroy dc— publican president, who is looking to destroy dc. do you agree there is no way the — to destroy dc. do you agree there is no way the president _ to destroy dc. do you agree there is no way the president can _ to destroy dc. do you agree there is no way the president can get - to destroy dc. do you agree there is no way the president can get a - to destroy dc. do you agree there is no way the president can get a fair l no way the president can get a fair trial in washington? i no way the president can get a fair trial in washington?— no way the president can get a fair trial in washington? i would not say there is no way. _ trial in washington? i would not say there is no way, but _ trial in washington? i would not say there is no way, but i _ trial in washington? i would not say there is no way, but i do _ trial in washington? i would not say there is no way, but i do think - trial in washington? i would not say there is no way, but i do think he i there is no way, but i do think he and his team have a point. there are problems for republicans having a trial in washington, dc, and we also saw with the durham trials, where democrats who were part of the russia collusion hoax, they were let off, even though there were some pretty basic charges with evidence that was overwhelming against people like michael sussman. in the end, americans do not want a two—tiered system ofjustice. they want the skills ofjustice to be blind. and frankly, i agree with bryan, the doj ought to look at another venue so that if these results are what they say they're going to be, that they will then be able to prove to the american people that they gave president trump a fairest venue, the first trial, that he could get, and that he was guilty. if it is done in dc, with a judge who is already gone above sentencing guidelines for criminals onjanuary 6 who breached the capital, the trump team is going to be able to use that to their advantage and win any court of public opinion, and frankly it is the of public opinion that is going to have the long—lasting effects on america's ability to get out of the polarised environment that we are in. polarised environment that we are in, ,,., ., ., polarised environment that we are in, ., ., ~' polarised environment that we are in. sarah what kind of burden does that back drop _ in. sarah what kind of burden does that back drop place _ in. sarah what kind of burden does that back drop place on _ in. sarah what kind of burden does that back drop place on special- that back drop place on special counseljack smith and his team? listen, i have seenjuries picks in highly contentious cases, cases of great emotional weight of an inferiorjury being picked, and so i think it is possible to do that —— and a fairjury. it all depends on the process to pick thatjury, the questions that are asked of those juries, the potentialjurors, the questions that are asked to make sure eachjuror enters questions that are asked to make sure each juror enters into that courtroom without any bias any prejudice of without any notions, and the ability to decide the case based on only evidence that is presented to them, and, frankly, i think that could happen in any jurisdiction in the united states. it is all about the selection of the jurors and making sure of the integrity of that process. it integrity of that process. it certainly looks like we'll get a different picture between these different picture between these different indictments and trials that take place, perhaps even another indictment in the state of georgia. we know that could be coming down in the coming weeks, but ijust want to coming down in the coming weeks, but i just want to remind coming down in the coming weeks, but ijust want to remind our coming down in the coming weeks, but i just want to remind our viewers again what those charges are that we have been looking at for the former president. that was the indictment laid out earlier this week. we saw that handed down andy former president arrange today. —— andy former president arrange. you're watching a special edition of bbc news, as we follow the third arraignment of former us president donald trump. it's his third appearance in court as a criminal defendant in four months. lets bring you up to speed on developments over the last few hours. donald trump has pleaded not guilty to four charges, relating to the events of january 6, 2021, when a mob of his supporters stormed the capitol as lawmakers worked to certify the 2020 presidential election. they had come from a rally, where trump repeated claims that the election had been stolen from him. more than a thousand people have been charged in connection over what happened that day. earlier thursday, trump flew to washington, dc from newjersey. he made his way to the courthouse — where supporters and protesters gathered. the former president made is way to the court room through back corridors. the court stands just a few blocks from the us capitol building. president trump was read his rights. he entered a not guilty plea. the next hearing set for the morning of august 28. these are the four charges donald trump is facing in this case — conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against the rights of citizens. the indictment also mentioned six co—conspirators, who have not been charged. trump has now left washington on his private plane. he's heading back to his home in bedminster, newjersey. as he got on his plane, he made a brief statement. take a listen. thank you very much. this is a very sad day for america. and it was also very sad driving through washington, dc and seeing the filth and the decay and all of the broken buildings and walls and the graffiti. this is not the place that i left. it's a very sad thing to see it. when you look at what's happening, this is a persecution of a political opponent. this was never supposed to happen in america. this is the persecution of the person that's leading by very, very substantial numbers in the republican primary and leading biden by a lot. so if you can't beat him, you persecute him or you prosecute him. we can't let this happen in america. thank you very much. that was the message from the former president as he was getting on his plane back to newjersey. let's go back to carl nasman who is following all the proceedings for us today. take us there again how the day proceeded and what he actually salty place in court? and what be actually salty place in court? ., and what be actually salty place in court? . ., , ._ , and what be actually salty place in court? ., ., , .,y , ,, court? right, and many ways, sumi, this was obviously _ court? right, and many ways, sumi, this was obviously a _ court? right, and many ways, sumi, this was obviously a historic - court? right, and many ways, sumi, this was obviously a historic day - this was obviously a historic day with a former president being arraigned on formal —— four charges and in some ways it sounds strange, it felt rather routine. this is of course been the third arraignment on criminal charges for the former president so a lot of what we saw today we have seen before and it was rather expected. the former president arriving here in washington, dc on his plane, a very short trip and a motorcade here to a courthouse in the centre of washington, dc, an interesting place for the arraignment to take place because we have seen dozens of other january the 6th related criminal cases being tried right here in the courthouse behind us. the former president then making his way in through a back entrance where he entered the courthouse, we did about 15 minutes aids in late arraignment but he entered his plea of not guilty for the four charges. we know special counseljack smith in attendance is an sight in the front row and just as quickly as he came to former president had left. the entire arraignment took about 30 minutes and he went back to the ronald reagan international airport here in washington, dc and made his way back to newjersey so all in all a very short stopover in washington. not as much as a to do as we saw in miami during that arraignment for the case that relates to classified documents. he did not stop at any caf s like he did in miami, this is only his second trip to washington since he left the white house and that he is already on his way back to newjersey. that was the scene here but of course the big news was that donald trump did plead not guilty to the four charges. thank ou so guilty to the four charges. thank you so much _ guilty to the four charges. thank you so much for— guilty to the four charges. thank you so much for wrapping - guilty to the four charges. thank you so much for wrapping up - guilty to the four charges. thank you so much for wrapping up the day interesting to hear how it proceeded. live now to congressman jamie raskin, democratic us representative from the state of maryland. also served on the january the 6th commission in the house of her position thank you so much for joining us. the former president arraigned today with your thoughts? i think it is a tremendous vindication of the rule of law in american democracy that we at least are starting off the principle that nobody is above the law, that people cannot get away with crimes and at use their fame cannot get away with crimes and at use theirfame or cannot get away with crimes and at use their fame or celebrity or former public office in order to nullify the prosecution. donald trump famously said that he could shoot someone on fifth avenue and it would make no difference to his supporters. that has proven to be fairly accurate prophecy about his supporters but not true of the american system ofjustice. you cannot get away with that just because you think that you exercised some kind of dictatorial or autocratic spell over the masses. i autocratic spell over the masses. i want to ask you on the indictment because it claims that president trump not only lied about losing the election but that he knew that he did and launched with his lawyers a conspiracy to overturn election results after looking at the indictment are you convinced that the president did indeed know that he lost the election? i was he lost the election? i was convinced _ he lost the election? i was convinced of _ he lost the election? i was convinced of that - he lost the election? i was convinced of that through l he lost the election? i was i convinced of that through the january the 6th select committee investigation when a number of witnesses told us things like, try saying, can you believe i lost to the sky into expressing frustration and exasperation about what had happened. he was told by the attorney general of the us was a loyal sycopha nt as attorney general of the us was a loyal sycophant as he ever had, william barr that he had lost the election and that the claims that he was swallowing and repeating the ps. cleaning that up for television. he was told by the white house counsel that there was nothing there, members of his family, he even had every reason to understand that he had lost the election and yet, he was still looking for a way to torture out some preservation of his power, even againstjoe biden victory of more than 7 million votes in the election 3062332 in the electoral college which was a margin which trump had declared an absolute landslide when he won by the exact same numbers against hillary clinton backin same numbers against hillary clinton back in 2016. so he was purposely well aware, of course even if he believed that he had won the election and remember, he lost 60 federal and state court places rejecting every claim of electoral interference. and interfere with the federal proceeding and deprive us of a fair election within the meaning of the law. ., a fair election within the meaning of the law-— of the law. the former vice president _ of the law. the former vice president did _ of the law. the former vice president did provide - of the law. the former vice - president did provide testimony to jackson at�*s office of the her committee was unable to speak with him but do you think you will be a key witness if this does go to trial? it key witness if this does go to trial? ., , , ., , key witness if this does go to trial? . , , ., , trial? it appears so. there were certain things — trial? it appears so. there were certain things that _ trial? it appears so. there were certain things that i _ trial? it appears so. there were certain things that i noticed - trial? it appears so. there were certain things that i noticed in l trial? it appears so. there were l certain things that i noticed in the indictment that were not part of the january the 6th report such as donald trump saying 2p, you are just too honest. that is in a conversation between the two of them said that must�*ve come from mike pence or his notes that he took. 50 there are certain things that only solidify our understanding that donald trump was trying to coerce mike pence in two stepping outside of his constitutional role presiding in ministerialfacts of his constitutional role presiding in ministerial facts during of his constitutional role presiding in ministerialfacts during bully fashion over thejoint in ministerialfacts during bully fashion over the joint session of congress to engage in the peaceful transfer of power and to simply appoint donald trump president, to clear him president and nullify the electoral college votes that have been sent in from millions of people in arizona, pennsylvania, georgia, wisconsin and so on. they basically wanted pence to vaporise the election and when he would not, they turned the raft of the insurrectionary rioters against them, we heard them chanting hank mike pence, hank mike pence, where did they get the idea to as donald trump support his attack is on vice resident. ,, , . , president. seeing the pictures there ofthe president. seeing the pictures there of the former _ president. seeing the pictures there of the former president _ president. seeing the pictures there of the former president arriving - of the former president arriving backin of the former president arriving back in newjersey. his defence here is that the former president was listening to bad legal advice do you think the special counsel's officers should have charged the co—conspirators named in the indictment? co-conspirators named in the indictment?— co-conspirators named in the indictment? . ., indictment? that is a question for the prosecutors _ indictment? that is a question for the prosecutors to _ indictment? that is a question for the prosecutors to decide, - indictment? that is a question for the prosecutors to decide, if- indictment? that is a question for the prosecutors to decide, if and l the prosecutors to decide, if and when to charge them, they could be charged at a later point, of course. when you go to law school you learn a series of defences you could have against any particular crime. if you're charged with assault you can allege self—defense or you could insert an alibi that you were not there, but no one has ever taught there, but no one has ever taught the defence that your lawyers told you you could do it. that would be called a mistake of law defence. that somehow you understood it to be legal to assault someone and one of the first things we learn in criminal law is that mistake of law is no excuse. so even if you went out and found the 100 worst lawyers in america to tell him what he wanted to do was ok, it would make no difference if it was actually against the law and certainly it was. ~ ., ., against the law and certainly it was. . . ., ., ., . was. what about another defence strate: was. what about another defence strategy that _ was. what about another defence strategy that we _ was. what about another defence strategy that we have _ was. what about another defence strategy that we have seen - was. what about another defence strategy that we have seen from | was. what about another defence i strategy that we have seen from the former president, they're pointing to the first amendment that trump can say and lie about the 2020 election because it is protected by free speech, what you make about the? he free speech, what you make about the? ., ., free speech, what you make about the? . ., ., ., the? he had a right to lie about the election anti-exercise _ the? he had a right to lie about the election anti-exercise that - the? he had a right to lie about the election anti-exercise that right i election anti—exercise that right profusely he liked all of the country but it was the point at which he entered into a conspiracy to interfere with the joint session of congress to disrupt the joint session of congress which he did and of course we were driven out by the mob for several hours. he could say that we think 60 federal and state courts are wrong in rejecting our claims of corruption, find, he could call thejudges, democrat claims of corruption, find, he could call the judges, democrat shysters or whatever you wanted to. he could make anything up, but when he decided to actually establish counterfeit electors and engage in a conspiracy to pull out these counterfeit electors to try and substitute for the actual electoral process, that moved from free speech where you can say anything to actual criminal conduct. that is what is governed by the loss of the distinction between what is free speech and what his conduct is do you thinkjack smith can prove that in court?— do you thinkjack smith can prove that in court? that is what we will see but the _ that in court? that is what we will see but the evidence _ see but the evidence certainly appears overwhelming for what we saw

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