of fans during ten brutal rounds in madison square garden in a bout described as the biggest ever in womens boxing. now on bbc news, the media show. hello and welcome to the media show. today we are going to look at three grand plans, the first comes from elon musk. twitter has become kind of the de facto town square, so it's just really important that people have the — both the reality and the perception that they are able to speak freely within the bounds of the law. since elon musk said that, he's had a multi—billion dollar offer for twitter accepted. we'll unpack what that means. the next plan we are going to look at is one that's come to a shuddering halt. this was just a few weeks ago. cnn is an icon of the cable and satellite age. but now cable is competing with streaming and there isn't a streaming subscription service for tv news in the united states. so if you were creating a news product from scratch in 2022, how would you build it? that's one of the questions, one of the starting points for cnn+. it's the biggest bet any company has made in the news streaming world. cnn spent millions of dollars on its new streaming service, cnn+. but within weeks, it had been canned. and as that was stopping, well, rupert murdoch was starting something. he's launched talk tv in the uk, with a familiar face at the centre of it. welcome to viewers around the world. i'm piers morgan and i'm uncensored. as nelson mandela might have said, it's been a long walk to freedom of speech. and i'm back with a night nightly form of fabulous guests and yes, some fun. talk tv, twitter, cnn+ — in a broad way, these are all parts of the same challenge as we try and work out how we are going to consume news and discuss the news in the future. where will we be doing that, which companies will we be paying for their services? let's begin with vivian schiller, executive director at aspen digital. vivian, you've held senior positions at cnn and twitter, so you're a perfect person to start with. were you surprised by those two stories? one of them i saw coming a mile away, and the other one completely took me off guard, is the summary. the mile away is cnn+. it was always a dubious proposition. well, notjust to me, many felt that way. that you can take a product that people watch for free, that has had declining viewership, and get them to pay monthly to get more of the thing that they could get for free. it's not surprising to be that it failed although, i was a little startled by how quickly the new ownership of cnn, which was recently purchased along with the rest of time warner media from — warner media by discovery. i've got to tell you, musk, i didn't see it coming. and even when he made the announcement that he was going to buy twitter i actually didn't believe the day would come when the board would actually say yes, we are selling twitter to you. but that day came on monday, and we're going to talk about that decision in detail. vivian, thanks for being with us. chris williams is also on the media show. chris, you're the business editor of the daily telegraph. and i wonder when you were watching what piers morgan, talk tv were doing this week, as they launched, whether you felt you were watching the future. in some ways, but in some ways it's a hearken back to rupert murdoch's done in america and it's kinda back to the future. they're still big questions about the economics of tv news, they whether they make it work, taking two approaches. one is to use assets they've already got in radio, in newspaper to make cheaper content — and then do monetise new investments like piers morgan's around the world. it's a new model, wait and see i think is the current position. all right. we're going to talk about talk tv in detail and talk about twitter in detail in a few minutes. let's start though with cnn+. we could reasonably call it one of the most spectacular media failures in recent years. it was a $300 million experiment. it was over within weeks. claire atkinson is chief media correspondent at insider. and claire, help us out to understand why cnn thought this was a good idea and why it came off the rail so quickly. it's really easy to answer that question. there were two management teams who wanted different things. warner media had wanted to launch the streaming service, they had conceptualised the idea, they'd brought in all this talent from other networks, spent millions of dollars bringing these people in. all the while you had the management at discovery say, not being able to say rather, that they didn't want this service they didn't see it as viable, they didn't think it would be profitable and they wanted to wrap news into a larger bundle with news, sports, movies and entertainment — and it wasn't their vision at all. help us understand what this product was well it existed. i'm sitting in the us, and open up my phone on my tv, what do i get? you would get a couple of different things. it was billed as a little bit more lifestyle. it wasn't necessarily the breaking news that you would see on cnn, although they did have an element of that when there was big a news story about a guy in brooklyn who let off a smoke bomb and shot at people in the subway, cnn+ covered that. they were also doing panel shows. it was a little bit more —— it was a little bit more lifestyle, there were news documentaries and so the feeling was that it wasn't you know, if you wanted news and you cut the cord and you didn't want to pay for cable any more that this wasn't really in alternative because it really wasn't that much news on it. and help me be as clear as we can be with the terminology here. we hear analysts talking about linear tv versus streaming products. just unpack those phrases for us a little bit, please. right, so linear tvjust means traditional television — the terrestrial tv, broadcast networks like abc, nbc, cbs, these are all services you get free to air, they don't cost you money. cable cost you money but it comes to a fiber—optic cable into the back of your tv, where streaming is something you can get anywhere, you don't have to have a cable package. lots of folks historically who lived in new york say couldn't get free to air tv and they paid the cable company to get it. so this is something that is revolutionary, streaming, the whole idea is you can cut the cord, you don't have to pay for television anymore and you could buy it a la carte. so you could buy, say, cnn say for $5.99 a month. clear, you're with us on the media show so are christen vivian. let's also bring in lauren hirsch who is a reporter at the new york ties for a long, can you help me with one question? why is it that news broadcasters are so preoccupied with streaming, why did cnn decide this was worth investing hundreds of dollars in? so for the past couple of years we've seen media companies funnel money into streaming thinking that's the future of content. we've seen subscriptions drop in traditional tv so therefore they are looking to where streaming is to effectively replace that. but the problem is, there is now so much competition and we don't know what people will pay for, they don't know how much, how many streaming services people will pay for. so it's really been for the past year throwing spaghetti against the wall in terms of content streaming. and now i think everyone is realising there's a lot of spaghetti on the wall and not a whole lot is sticking, to be honest. plenty of spaghetti on the floor, by the sounds of it, as well. vivian, let me bring you in here. because there is one potentially frightening scenario here for news broadcasters, which is the audiences are departing the linear tv networks, but they may simply not want a new streaming product. well, that's possible. i mean, you know, there are so many paid subscription opportunities now, and i think we are now learning — it's still early days — learning the limits of how many netflix, hulus, apple pluses, etc people are going to sign onto. and when you look at news, the new york times has done well with their subscription service put up in fact it's interesting that cnn+, he has pointed to their bosses in making the case said, we think we are more of a new york times model, which i think was a little misguided, but ok. but it is concerning and it may be that we find the limits beyond which news platforms are just not going to grow when it comes to television. the new head of the company has said that he's not worried about the profitability of cnn, he wants to do good journalism, we will see if that sticks. and i wondered perhaps faye, you could help me with this, to what degree want to view has already referenced netflix, to what degree that netflix storyjust before the cnn announcement was relevant — it announced it lost 200,000 global subscribers and perhaps the figure that caught everyone�*s attention, it expects to lose 2 million more subscribers in the next three months. claire, was that relevant to cnn canning cnn+? i mean, i think it is. in the bigger picture in that the owners of cnn have to show wall street that they are investing in a profitable business. and what we've seen so far is the likes of netflix and disney+ have been throwing literally billions of dollars content producers in the hopes that people will subscribe. all of a sudden as a pivot, wall street is saying, "hang on a minute, we want to see profit from this business." and the expectation that this was a limitless, 2 billion people potentially would tune into streaming or pay for streaming, that's not being questioned — and that affects cnn's owners. and chris from the telegraph, i'm listening to all of the others talk about cnn+, of course a product aimed at the us market. i'm wondering if you think a streaming product could work in the uk. i mean, some of the challenges to cnn+ faced in the us- would be even more steep in the uk. - probably because the bbc is very high quality news i and current affairs product and available point - of delivery in the uk. it's for a channel for| anyone trying to sell a new subscription that has to be distinct- and worth paying for in the uk. i can't see that ever- being tried in the uk, really. perhaps it could be wrapped up in a broader subscription offer where you pay one company to give you notjust sports and everything else. well, that's one of the ironies here — you have this sort- of fracturing of the cable package _ you had hundreds of channels and now you're seeing it be i re—bundled by a handful- of small or very large groups. you've got disney, netflix and warner—discovery, i who own cnn, is content and kind of people who want - to send you two sell - you a phone or additional... but seeing a kind of- re—coalescing of the package that was cable, that's kind of what's happening - to cnn+. it'sjust that cnn is going into the - warner—discovery big package. ross, ijust want to say that this is a global business. news is global by its very nature. and these streamers, they may begin in the states but their ultimately goal is to be a power around the globe and have viewers everywhere. and nbc news has certainly attempted to chase cnn in that and be a rival to the bbc, in the hopes that that brand can have resonance and folks all around the world would seek content that they are producing. in order to make it cost—effective. same with netflix, same with disney+. the march is on now to see how many global subscribers you can be owned. this is notjust a country by country game. and of course, we can't talk about global media or global news without considering what rupert murdoch thinks about that. he's been a major player for decades, and this week he made another play, with piers morgan in the centre of it. talk tv was launched on monday. here's morgan's show airs at 8pm. in the next hour president donald] trump blows the roof off the biggest issues in the world today and indeed he blows my head off too. you think i'm a fool? i do now, yeah. nothing is off—limits. trump tells us what he told putin about invading ukraine. i threatened him like he has i never been threatened before. and the big question, whether he will run again for president in 2024? i think people arel going to be happy. you might even be happy. well, chris from the telegraph, you were watching, did you enjoy it? you know, it was not bad, it was very slickly made, it was all this american stuff of production. not my cup of tea but i enjoyed it, thought it was very interesting. and piers morgan has been very keen to share the ratings on both evenings so far. how do you assess how talk tv has performed in its first 48 hours? his first show came . in at 317,000 viewers which is quite _ possibly the best in that log. he will be pleased with that. there's something like 100,000 viewers in the second day- so that gives you a sense - of how it's going to be a long the channel menu is somewhere down in the 2005. you not to get any casual- people bumping into your stuff which is why you're seeing | a very aggressive billboard campaign around the show which they spent a lot - of money on. it's going to be a long road. tv news in the uk is| in structural decline, i think it 2013 80% of people watching tv news are down. the bump as a result of covid. it is structurally difficult. a lot of the success will be l judged on how it does online and you got piers morgan as a guy who sort of- traffics in controversy. and that helps him to cut through the noise onlinel and he'll be trying to drum up. as much controversy as he can. and some of those controversies just don't play out on tv. of course they're pushing out social media clips that there are also plugged into the sun newspaper and the new york post. so vivian, as we consider whether news broadcasters need to find a route away from linear, do you think this hybrid model that rupert murdoch and piers morgan have come up with could offer a blueprint for others? actually, yes, i think in fact, i wish in behalf of cnn+ they had maybe notjumped in with both feet for this nine figure investment into a full—blown channel but rather experimented a bit with these kinds of streaming shows. i'm not a big fan of piers morgan but i do think in terms of the business strategy, it makes a lot of sense and sort of reflects the idea of, let's test and learn along the way what the business model works. and one part of the business strategy is to build a tv network and a product around one individual. to what degree do you think that points the direction of travel that increasingly individuals may be as important or even more important than brands? yes, i think we are seeing that. there's all these newsletters, the journalists themselves are becoming conduits of the news, they are stars, piers morgan is very well known in the states. he used to host a show on cnn. he's actually going to be broadcasting on fox nation which is fox news' streaming offering. they actually told me they don't consider fox nation a news streamer, it's a lifestyle network. so i think that's kind of interesting. this weekend, there is the white house correspondents dinner in washington, where news and the future of news will be discussed by the great and the good. they'll be politicians and joe biden there, of sitting with news organisations, this is a topic that will be talked about and perhaps donald trump comes back and perhaps those news audiences come back too. i'm interested that fox nation does not consider itself a news streamer, that you emphasise lifestyle. piers morgan is placing a huge amount of emphasis on the culture wars. lauren, from the new york times, do you think this makes sense in business terms and consumer terms? because the glory days of us cable news was very much based on covering politics. yes. i think that, unfortunately, | culture wars has taken over the media and the way that politics are being covered l now and we i think it's. actually fairly consented with the trajectory received. ——consistent. vivian, just before we can want to talk about twitter, presumably all of the strands of our discussion point towards a fact about news and how we consume it is in for a tumultuous few years. oh, yes. i mean, it's impossible to even address that, respond to what use just said without talking about twitter. i think in many ways twitter is sort of the hub for the many spokes of how news, what news takes hold, who pays attention to what, and what storylines dominate. let's talk about twitter. of course this jaw—dropping announcement came on monday, it's a major news sources vivian explains, elon musk has had an offer of $41; billion accepted for the whole thing. lauren hirsch from the new york times, you've been reporting on this in detail. took but to happen so quickly really took us all by surprise. how did that happen? it was incredible. i was outside a show texting with a source just to touch l base and my source goes, a deal could happen - maybe monday, maybe not. i was like, "what are you talking about?" i it happened at an - exceptionally fast speed. the board — to take a step back, - elon musk put the offer out there without any financing. there was a lot of scepticism that it was real, it _ was le-itimate and he lined up financing on wednesday, displayed on thursday i and all of a sudden | it became very real. and the board was faced i with the decision of looking at its prospect of standing. alone and what its long—term business trajectory was, and there was this sense that, frankly, it was limited. - there's a of challenge right now with social i media companies, the advertising business is under pressure. - they came to the conclusion that perhaps elon musk- was not a desirable buyer but he was the only buyer and the price he was offering posed a better solution - from a number of- business perspectives. once they arrived at that - conclusion and understanding they raced to get a deal done. they were up into the night on monday and signed - the documents shortly before it was announced _ monday afternoon. and the deal has been done and the board has accepted the offer. but none of this magics away the tensions between whether twitter is a platform and whether it's a publisher. help us understand how that particular tension placed directly into this emphasis from elon musk on freedom of speech and how he feels like twitter should be doing better on that front. so he even has gone back. and forth in the past couple days, when he was to launch the bid he talked about howl passionately he felt - about freedom of speech european regulators came out yesterday behind elon musk . and says if he poses twitter he will have to abide - by european law, as of next year it requires social- media companies to crack down on misinformation. i musk indicated yesterday in a follow—up tweet that he kind of knew that . twitter would have to abide by the laws. i think elon musk started this with a lot of ideals, - a lot of grand ideas - and i think the reality is that governments in europe - and potentially, eventually us begin to regulate these media platforms differently, - ultimately, it will have to abide by that. - so those are the details of how elon musk has ended up in the situation for the vivian, let's bring you in. there will be people listening thinking, ok, looks like he's going to be in charge. how's my experience of twitter going to change? for example he talked about sharing the algorithm so we all understand why twitter is showing a certain tweets more than others. in a practical sense, if me, you or anyone else opens up twitter what do you think the big shift would be? we don't really know. he's made very limited comments so far about what he plans to do about content moderation content moderation is the practice of a platform deciding what to leave out, what to take down what to take down, what to supress. but based on his limited remarks and based on some of his tweets in the last few days, just as personal behaviour twitter, i think it seems like he is maybe going to open up, make it more open, eliminate some of the decisions that previous twitter management has made which would give rise to a lot of ugliness on twitter. bullying, hate speech, all of those things. i'm very, very concerned. and can i ask you vivian about your time inside twitter? elon musk is talked about it as being the world's town square with all the responsibilities that come with that. could you feel that responsibility when you were sitting around the top table of twitter thinking, "my goodness, where part of this thing now where it almost goes beyond the company, where it's all almost a public platform that everybody uses." absolutely. i know i've been gone from twitter for a little while now but i know, i have a lot of friends in there and i think that that kind of faith and the passion about the role that twitter plays is still very much alive in the company. it is tiny compared to facebook and youtube and some of the other platforms but it punches above its weight tremendously in terms of the kind of influence it has. it affects news coverage, it is amplified by all of us journalists on twitter all the time. we amplify them in our stories. world leaders are on there. it has tremendous influence. so it has influence, it matters a great deal for people who use it regularly but, lauren, i must ask on behalf of probably the majority of people listening to this programme because the majority of people do not use twitter. why does this story matter to them? i worked for the new york times and what the new york times i the legacy goes, almostl a trickle down to the rest of the country with local news people put on the cover- of their page would reflect. what the new york times do. on exactly with the new york times chose to do. _ that's kind of what i twitter has become. twitter has become i the a1 for the nation. so even if in individual is not on twitter reading tweets i they are absorbing news in some capacity and that news _ and what journalists think is . important and what journalists are seeing, that issue affects twitter. - so it all trickles down, even if you are not - directly on the platform. when you say a1 you mean the front page of the new york times. i apologise. the front page of the i new york times, yes. and as we close this addition i am interested to hear the three of you respond to vivian's point, which is really all of our discussions about how we all consume news, where we all find information, where we discussed the world we live in, all in some ways connects to twitter and connects to social media. chris from the telegraph, would you agree with that, that every consideration of say, tv news is really in that context? yes, i think you've got a series on legacy media who are terrified of losing their audience and believe they have to be on social media in some respects. they are right but at the same time personally i think twitter has been pretty disastrous for political and journalistic culture and we can do better. why, chris? i think that journalists embarrass themselves on there. it's largely journalist talking to otherjournalists with an audience of people who have got an unhealthy relationship with the news and everyone would be better off off of it. and i include myself in that. could be time to deactivate your account, chris? i actually have done that. and hopefully i won't bring it back. and, vivian, on that final point, do you think that twitter risks distorting both how we see the world as consumers but also how the news industry makes decisions? yes. although if it becomes too distorted than the news industry is going to abandon twitter as a1, basically the equivalent of new york times front page. he may end up destroying that golden goose that he thinks he's going to be monetising. we will see. we will have to see if the process goes through, the board is accepted the offer but of course now both sides do their due diligence in a few months, if that all goes to plan, elon musk will be fully in charge of twitter. well, that is where we will have to leave it. to all of my guests, many thanks. claire atkinson, vivian schiller, chris williams and lauren hirsch, the media show will be back at the usual time next week. for now, thanks for watching. bye— bye. hello. sunday will be a mixed bag across the uk. generally speaking, and a lot of clout about but also chances of catching some rain, especially across western areas of the uk. a mild morning, temperatures ranging from seven —— 10 degrees in belfast, that is at seven o'clock in the morning. this is the rain, mostly across wales and the south—west and across the irish sea but generally a lot of clout across england however scotland and northern ireland will be much brighter and given the funny spells, temperatures will be higher as well, 17 expected in glasgow. how about bank holiday monday? a fair amount of cloud around, generally brighter and the possibility of showers, chilli in northern scotland and south of the country temperatures should get up into the high teens. that is it from me. good morning. welcome to breakfast, with rogerjohnson and victoria derbyshire. our headlines today: politicians welcome the resignation of conservative mp neil parish, who admits to watching pornography in the house of commons twice. madness, total madness. i mean, i'm not going to defend it. i'm also not going to defend what i did. what i did was absolutely, totally wrong. the commons speaker, sir lindsey hoyle, calls for radical action to overhaul working practices in westminster. ukrainian fighters inside mariupol�*s besieged azovstal steel plant say 20 women and children have been evacuated but hundreds remain trapped inside.

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