be a fundamental shift now in america. we might not get it back. maybe liberals are happy with this particular victory. but maybe next time it will be somebody on their side of the aisle. maybe someone in their family. maybe one of their loved ones. are we going to become a country of guilty until proven innocent? that s a pretty scary and horrible place. no presumption of innocence. with reaction fox news contributor radio host sara carter, former chairman of the house oversight committee jason chavis. tammy, what s amazing about you and i have known you many years. used to be the president of a national organization for women. yeah. sean: you have been the single most, one of the most outspoken people on this. passionate. look, i spent most of my adult life fighting on these
congressman chaffetz was saying, there are already vouchers for veterans to go to a private hospital. i understand you want to cater it to specific people. i don t think that s a fair charge. sandra: jason, we have shulkin on this program before. he s very passionate about what he was doing at the va. on his exit, he wrote this scathing op-ed in the new york times, giving a parting shot at washington and politics. making the point that he s a victim of politics. is he? look, when you go out and access wimbledon tickets and your chief of staff is accused by the inspector general of doctoring documents, we start to lose the moral authority that says this is just politics. this comes on the heels of a very scathing inspector general report. it s tough to service this level of government, it should be.
florida today. we will see if it happens. i don t think the president should be happy with where we were, as secretary, i was not happy with where we were. we have to figure out how to move this bureaucracy faster and be more responsive. sandra: the fired secretary speaking out, david shulkin agreeing that the va needs work but shulkin calls himself a victim of politics. he thinks his dismissal may have something to do with a push to privatize the va, a move he does not support. joining me now, cohost of the five, juan williams and jason chavis, former utah congressman. jason, why do you think he got the boot? it s not something president trump will tolerate in any way, shape, or form. if you was resistance resistang
case both in an op-ed in the new york times, on the basis of merit, he doesn t think privatization is a good idea. if you look to the va, you are looking at people who have done tremendous research on brain injuries, traumatic injuries, they have a chance to offer something that the private sector does not. he said basically putting people in the private sector, the polls don t show the same level there is for the va. he says it won t be better for the quality of our veterans. sandra: i want to get your response, jason. listen. it would be a mistake to conclude that we do not need the va and that we need to dismantle the va. we have to improve the va while at the same time, working with the private sector in an integrated way to meet the needs of our veterans.
no doubt it is tough. it should be. sandra: he does make the point overall, though, that he was seen as an obstacle to privatization. at the end of the day, juan, that s the reason he sees he got the pink slip. i think jason and i can testify that they don t see themselves clearly. i think jason is right. that ethical lapse is a big deal and made him more vulnerable to getting a pink slip. he says it s not fair the ethics office had approved everything before hand. that s not what exists in the public s mind. i think it opened the door for him to leave. sandra: we will leave it there, gentlemen, thank you so much. good to see you both. have a great weekend. bill: i spoke with timothy cardinal dolan about the importance of this time of year, this reflection in our lives.