so at the time he was told not to go, there was no calculation about where he might be or where the president might be, because the date hadn t even been set yet, is that right? that s right. the date had not been set, so we were weighing a number of different scenarios of when the inauguration might fall. now, i think you said that originally, the president had told him to go. and then you received the instruction that the president no longer wanted him to go. were you aware in the interim between the president telling him to go or the president telling him not to go that rudy giuliani had to abort a trip that he was going to make to ukraine? i had seen that in the press, yes. and had you seen in the press that rudy giuliani blamed people around zelensky for having to cancel the trip? for having to cancel his trip? yes. i had read that in the press reporting, yes. had you read in the press
but i was told the ukraine trip would take priority. but ultimately, you don t know? i don t know about the canada trip? you don t know the reason that the vice president was sent to canada for a usmca event instead of going to the ukraine? i don t know the reason why the president directed the vice president to go to canada instead of ukraine. colonel vindman, i would like to turn a little bit about the july 10th meeting, in ambassador bolton s office and the subsequent post-meeting in the ward room. who all was in the july 10th meeting, to the best of your recollection? are we talking about the ward room or are we talking about the actual meeting with ambassador bolton? we ll start with the first meeting in the ambassador s office. so from the u.s. side, we had ambassador bolton, dr. hill, i believe there was another special assistant to the
about that? in my mind, there was not. it s also true, is it not, that these two investigations that the president asked zelensky for into 2016 and into the bidens were precisely the two investigations that rudy giuliani was calling for publicly, were they not? that is correct. so when people suggest, well, maybe rudy giuliani was acting on his own and maybe he was a freelancer or whatever, the president referred to exactly the same two investigations rudy giuliani was out pushing on his behalf. is that correct? that is correct. now, miss williams, you were asked about the meeting the vice president had with zelensky in september. in which the ukrainians brought up their concern about the hold on the security assistance. is that right? that s right. and you were asked about whether in that meeting between the vice president zelensky, the
so with the big public meeting, it didn t come up, and you can t speak to the private meeting that was held immediately thereafter? correct. the vice president moved on with his schedule immediately after his meeting with president zelensky. now, colonel vindman, i want to go back to that july 10th meeting or meetings. the one with ambassador bolton and the one in the ward room that followed quickly on its heels. were you aware that ambassador bolton instructed your superior, dr. hill, to go talk to the lawyers after that meeting? i learned shortly after she was finished talking to ambassador bolton and after he wrapped up with the ward room, that she did have a meeting with him and that s what was expressed. now, you thought you should go talk to the lawyers on your own, correct? that is my recollection, yes. but bolton also thought that
national security counsel s top ukraine adviser at president trump s white house, they have been answering the intelligence committee s questions. much of the testimony so far has surrounded that july 25th phone call between president trump and ukrainian president voldmore zelensky. what s your reaction to the testimony so far? there was a sound you can hear during a lot of the testimony today which was republican talking points disintegrating like crystals falling apart. how so? three of them. the idea that all of the information that the democrats have produced so far was secondhand. well, obviously, today, we heard a great deal about the president s own role in the july 25th phone call. the second point was that, well, ukraine didn t know that the aid was conditioned on pursuing these investigations for the president s political benefit.