>> so at the time he was told not to go, there was no calculation about where he might be or where the president might be, because the date hadn't even been set yet, is that right? >> that's right. the date had not been set, so we were weighing a number of different scenarios of when the inauguration might fall. >> now, i think you said that originally, the president had told him to go. and then you received the instruction that the president no longer wanted him to go. were you aware in the interim between the president telling him to go or the president telling him not to go that rudy giuliani had to abort a trip that he was going to make to ukraine? >> i had seen that in the press, yes. >> and had you seen in the press that rudy giuliani blamed people around zelensky for having to cancel the trip? >> for having to cancel his trip? >> yes. >> i had read that in the press reporting, yes. >> had you read in the press