Transcripts For FOXNEWSW Hannity 20230128

0 antiscience. >> freekeh, google agrees antisi with this. no questionsgoogle. que google just took down dow project veritas video exposing the pfizer executive on youtube. according to youtube, quote, we remove the content forto violatin youg our policies and covid-19 vax misinformation. whator makes no sense. weekend >> but i have a wonderful weekend anyway with the ones you have. and we will see you monday. ca kahnawake, i'm not going to hannity. and we start with a foity.x news alert this friday night. now, tonight, we are monitoringt the ground in new york city, in city the city of memphis, tennessee, where just hours ago local laws, enforcement, they releasedforcee a body cam footage showingleingn the incident thacit led to the death of terry nichols allegedly at the hands of fo five officers. now former memphis police officers. this videorm memphis is extremet in nature. and now cities acrosurcisties as the country,the coun they are bg for potentially a night of violence. but before we take you to the'st ground in memphis, it's important to see the body cam and cctv footage. keep in mindct, that terry nichols was pulled over for allegedly reckless drivingr for this was about eight thirty pm on saturday, january the 7th. and initially was taken down init by the police.ot he was not cuffed and got up att one point and fled during anbodc altercation. body cam footage shows a veryamf ootage showslengthy struggle wie police, with terry nichols, even after police deployed both a taser and pepper spray.. there is some question whetherthe tase the taser actually hit him. but this is a viewer warning.ut whatis a view we're about to py is extremely graphic. but take a look atlace the initialstart th incident. >> start thereere., go through n otanything. rn the all right. >> all right. all right, all right. all right. you know that. get on the ground. t all right.! i'm on the ground these days. >> you don't get all the greateu washington right now. get on theall right?ight, okay >> befor [bleyou all right with your new day? hands i go back .ind okayyo, i'm not really doing a lot right now right? me! oh, you're saying go home, man, if you don't mind. lay how are you? mar-a-lago d >> garnick. >> okay, i'm not doing so great . as you can see after that initial encounter, tyree got upu and ran. and as you alsp and o see, polie then caught up with nichols and the incident became agnt became momore and more phy >> again, visual warning.ai this is tough to watch.s k. as he can all right.se now it gets for us again.e wa as you could see, there was pepper sprayed. thing one of the things that justt comes out, just pops off the screen to me is the i aggressiveness with five officers. there's one suspect and the aggressive nature of this. and at no time did anyone say, "okay, eerybody take deep breath. i'm not sure why that didn'tvert happen. we'll get into that in a minute. breath."but here is another ango cctv. their cameras showing nichols pc battling police as the memphis officers were kicking and at some points punching him, kicking him hard in the head. eh it appeared that they were trying to get him cuffed whilecu striking himffed while over andd and over and over again inwing another body cam video. following this incident,this officers discuss their belief that perhaps nicholas wa thas on drugs. an was extremely high at extreme one point. and officer claimsd an that nics was attempting to reach for his gun. >> watchfor hi everybody. osprey's hippolyte, jump up. he he would go and i thought, oh, they were going from a car to sonray. >> he m hello. if i don't get it to . oh, man, i , like, got him out the car. also hit me, reach for my gun. so we talked about it. oh that's true. so we tried to get a stop, even stop. we get instead of trying to get inside. swervestop, stop, stop, stop, i drove around for like you can hit my car. so then i'm likeca so, i we we don't he pull up to the top oftn the like put his trying to sing. along so we jump out the car with now all five police officers involved, they have been fired and chargedmurder with second degree murder. but again, it is importantrtant to remember this video is horrific, but everyone is innocent until proven guilty.t everyone is innocentyou're at ht a lot of what the what tookoo place in this incident. lot and obviously, there's goingtalo to be a lot of talunk aroundn ge the country abounet policing in general. here now with the very latest. he's on the ground.ve he's in memphis. our own steve harrigan is withtk us . steve , let's talk about w abouf going on there. afirst of all, i understandunds people have been gathering stano far peacefully, thankfully. >> what do you see? ce so no violence, sean, sothat far tonight. but they have blocked off this interstate. fifty five several hundred protesters came ou t, climbed upt on a bridge, and they got on this t highway and they're blocking it in both directions. you can seks as fae trucks as fr as the eye can see, just backed they up. have they have been chanting, you take chanting, our lives, we ta. your money. so evidently by blocking this highway,evid they feel like thee taking their money, making their protest felt over the past two hours. we haven't seen anven't y policn . the police have issued a statement on twitter saying avoid the area thereea is at police action in the area, butth there's no police action aboutse a mile down the road, you can p see some police cars, but it'sla clear the decision has been made, at made, at least for now, to see this ground, to leave it to the protesters. they have taken control of this section of highway in memphis. >> sean, back to you. all right, steve harrigan inin memphis tonight, also on the ground live in memphis as well. fox news political analyst channel caldwell and g.a., by the way, i understand that gi you got a chance to speaknd yout with benjamin crum a cp earlierh today, the attorney, and he's been outspoken on this case. ths i see a lot of people surrounding yolou. ople there what is the general consensus of people there on the ground?? what wastatement the statement crump gave you and even your own thoughts? umon what happened with the have protests here have been rather peaceful, which is a sign of relief for the folks that live n in the city. when me and my team first ar riarrived myth this we look through the area, we drove around. we didn't see any people on the street, just very fewvery pockets of protesters. so few i'm sure people at this e are very happy. earlier, i spoke with benjamincrump, crump, the family attorney for o the nichols family. fo also the family attorney for george florie. >> and here's what hr e had >> to say. >> benjamin crump, you hav benjn been the family attorney for people like george floyd, breonna taylor, michaeoyd,l broh many, many others.ers. there are clear differencesth here. e re but the response, the policespe response, the chief of police, a this is clearly much differentrl than those cases. ent than those casess out to yo? where, giono? it is the immediacy of action,y. the fact that they move swiftly to take an action to terminate thes these officers. and then we sad then ww the dist attorney bring charges less than 20 days. and so that sets a precedent when you see police officerswheu committing s crimes on video, anybody committing crimesod on video, then you shouldyou sh swiftly move towards justice. >>ouwiftly just like they did here ine, w memphis, tennessee, with these itesfive black police officers.i that shoulntd be the blueprint going forward. it shouldn't take six months or a year when you got video evidence, police brutalizingevie of a citizen. wilson, as you can see behindn e me, the crowd is a little bit is peacing, but it is still peaceful. so we're thankful foeful.r that and i want to send it right back to you, sean. ojanno, one of the people on the ground, telling youe whag ,people here are satisfied whath with what the chief has done. chief davis, c.jf. davis, getting rid of the copscops immediately. they felt that the actions wer i with just like benjamin crump just mentioned. so i think that may be a part of the reason why is peaceful now. people peaceful are feeling like there's a little bit of justice that o is already taking plac has e. as you mentioned, the officers are innocent until proven guilty. t so we'll see. the but right now, i'm sure citizent the citizens of thishe city are happy that it is very peacefulaf here tonight ault this time sea. all right. we'll ge all rigt back to you throughout the hour. thank you. the o livehoow als o live on on the ground in memphisthe, fox news contributor, investigative reporter sara carter. sara , tel s.l what's goingu ar on where you are. >> hi.e.>> so, sean, i'm here on the oldth memphis bridge. obviously, the proteste s behins me have blocked both sides of this bridge traffic comingshow and going. i can show you right over here the trucks that are lined up that arbehinde li me. t they've been sitting there for hours. those trucks have been waiting iously . the protesters are obviously saying they're shutting down this bridg they'ree. pply l they're cuttining off the supply line to memphis. they want people to hear their voice. and , of course, terry nichols to remembe ,they want people to rememberr a his name. i had and opportunityan to tal. to several of the protesters. now, although everything is vererythingy peaceful right s know, the tensions are stillio and there's still some concern. rs the protesters have said are evn on the police come up,th they're going to keep and hold the line on this bridge. s bridgebut take a listen to wht some of the protesters had to say to me. >>me of ters had there's a lot of conce. >> it might, you know, things el i see escalateat. i see children here. i see other people you don't see. you don't believe that will happen. ppen? oh, no. memphis, we already have a lot going on . i am peaceefinitely need any of that. i'm i'm peaceful out here.l as i sos, i'm out here doingoing a a peaceful protest p. these people are very peaceful, but by any means necessary. that's the quote tha nt i folloa . >> i have no choice chance. our law enforcement. if a person looks like me, youe. can kill me because they havehaa a badge on . you don' ot have a voice to transmission. i truswhere's the trust?t you.? no, no, no. i have no chance for lawng? enforcement. it mmakeakess my you, sean, rigt there's a lot of protesters, about three hundred protesters. pr there arote about 200 to 250. when we first came up on the bridge, we were walking with them. we saw more people arrive walki i mean, the numbers could grow. right now. everything is peaceful. w everythibut i can see the pols directly to the right of me.holn they are they're just holding steady. so we've got about a mile of open space right now where the protesters are holding firrm on this bridge.s this is fifty five .i-55 this is a major thoroughfare here in memphis.elieve so i believe it'll only be a a matter of time. we got police helicopters up above to before the police come in and ask people to disperse.ae >> sean,ople sara , there are>> a couple of people behind you. do you wanwakt to ask them to if what their opinion is of whatn o they saw tonight as this tape was released? >>w sure. >> absolutely. absolutely. ed? could come this way. let's see if wee can get some folks here to talk. excuse me. hello. hello.. hi, everyone. cuse me, heli'm here. ing i'm with fox news and i'm goingo live right now. on the air. a and i havend sean hannity right here. and we're trying to gettrying everybody's assessment of what c happened. >> did you have e a chance to se the tape today? i did. tape twhat went through your mid when you saw my son? >> i'm right. there could have been my phone camera. yeah b, that's what i think evey every mother. i'm a mother, too. i'm motherand i can understand u feel. what are you hoping can happen wh tonight? what do you hope changes from f everyone speaking ourot? i hope that they you know, i they change the scope of policec and community and we need better relations with thweee win community. but what we witnessed downes there wasn't even policeman that was that was cruel. and that's something that a lotp of young people have toleopld m. that feeling of being you powerless. do you mind if i ask your sonthg a question? yeah.h e whatmind went throughu sa your mind when you saw that it t was devastating to see thato happen to another black man who was black on black crime? o >> all rightbl.acight and that's a pretty frightening thought, right? frightenn? wma well, i hope you staynight. safe tonight. everyone stay safe tonight. thank you so much for chatting with me. what was your first name? caleb. tavian. nice to taylor. taylor , caleb. caleb.eb. okay, it's pretty loud here,s pr sean. that's caleb and his mother. lon you obviously, sean, you can hear that tensiocan, that feelis of like, what if m this wasi hea my child? and that's what i hear a lot lot from the families and the people that are out here that are hoping that the protestshopg peaceful. . all right, sara carter inter in memphis tonight. thank you, sir. tht back to you also throughout the evening. now let's get to two other two v idvideos we didn't get to see at the top of the show because of a technical issue, as you'rechn about to watch. police caught up with nicholschs after a chase and the incident became more and more physicald again. again, you're warninmore physicu can see for yourself, hey, youo. know, if you i guess, no, you're here. give me. okay, all right. give give it a try. right. oh, and it gets worse again ifte you're wanting to take a looken at a screen. here is another angle from ang lea cctv camera showing nicholsn battling police as the memphiss thofficers were kicking andppeae punching him, it appeared d that they were trying to get himnd cuffed while striking him over and over and over again. and again. >> one cop walks over, kicked them twice in the head. take a look. i think t. you can see itth this way.ic the kick is right there. that's kick no. one .er one and then another kick to followf olright here. >> it's you know, and this is right in his head. remember i, we saw the picture terry nichols in his hospitalhi bed and his face was just beaten senseless. so the injuries sustained obviously enough to kill him. all right. here with more is the host of the co-host of the five, geraldo rivera and the host of" lawrence jones cross. geraldcountry. cros l.j. is with us and fox news contributor and former d.c. homicide detective ted williams. thank you all for being with us. lj, let me start with you. you watch this tape, you see this tape. and i know so many people in law enforcement and i wasthis looking for this five guys there against one young man. and obviously they havee stun the advantage of pulling out the stun guns and pulling out pepper spray their you know, they're they're mad . they're angry at no timeyone to hear anyone say, sir, sir, everybody calm down. >> " we're not going to hurt yo. we're not here to hurt you. we but we do have to take into r custody. we really need your cooperation. cooperation.n everything. n ev i heard nothing but anger, like real anger and you see the physicality here. we're talking about five o one. one . that part i'm having a harthdate time. that is not the policing tha.t i believe officers are trained. >> it you know, we've done thisa a lot. we we we review the facts, evide the evidence, and we don't rusht to judgment. but you can' yt denyou c't deny what you see talking on tape. and i'm not just talking for for myself. i'm talking abou offie officers that i've been texting back and forth from. when you broughttexting it to the crim channel. i've been covering crime forform a long time. i know a lot of cops tali know i ta to him on a day to day basisdays and they're all horrified. they want to risk their condolenceand theyall s t nichols family. condolhawn, there were several out toood this video tha out to me. you come to the scene out of control, out of control.t of you disobey police policy.t jusl you don't just roll up on a like t car like that. you don't knowhat. what the suspectly have. could possibly have. yo you put yourself at risku pu atn and then you slaughtered the suspect. not usinted to spray eac with the spray because you're not using it the right way. way.use your taser the wrong way. you use your batons, the wronge way.su you didn't restrain the suspect. the right way. i mean, that's just basic police protocol. and then i just can't get past h the fact that you held the suspect up and beat them. you took turns. you you use your baton iused yn theg way. and then i just can't help but be annoyed by the fact that they fist bumped at the in so that were many layers to this basic police protocol.this .was broken right here. they were on a power trip and he didn't have to die that night. he was crying out for his mom. again, they have the right court to defend themselves in the court of law. bu law, t just from a tactic protocolnt, basic police protocol. so - i started offted off when s six years old as a police explorer. s old as ai know protocol. and they broke every rule in the book. >> you know, geraldo, i ljh write it. r he's crying for his mom.ight. at one point he's literally getting punched and kickeding and pepper sprayedpunched and td . and , you know, there's and t five cops there. be the they're supposed to be the trained professionals in a situation. look, he was obviously scared, b obviously felt they were being overly aggressive from from ei aggressive frthe get go and l soot, guys, there's a lot going on here early on that there was nobody there that tried to eveno diffuse it. defand , you know, to watch ths one cop just come walking in,s disgusted and just kick thisd ie kid in the head not once but twice. once, but you know, a kick in the head kills people.ills peopl >> geraldoe,, you know, on this earth and five cops. this was the pack. this was a cowardly, sadistic bunch of brutes who who murdered a man right beforeght o our very eyes.re o it.t'sur ver the most eerie thig about it. you you're watching a dead man you screaming for his mother. i mean, itmo is outrageous.ther it is the most pathetic thingvee i've ever seen. r d wherand where the was a pol sergeant? where was a supervisor was? >> you have these five . mocho cops out there who i don't know how much trainingingy they had there. their instinct was to lash out, was to was to inflict pain, waso to torture this young man to death. it is really it makes me want to puke. it is the mostwant t sickening n pove ever seen in terms of police brutalityli and the way that that one cop kind of winds up and then goes ten , fifteen feet to land a blow, a kick a to the victim's head and then another kick . and then the other one takeses a turn. and he's obviously defenseless. ani mean, it is really i whenead i first heard the charges ofhars murder two, i said, wow, that's pretty serious this early in the game. at's prebut when you see this, t is clear that this was rick , this disregard for human life. >> this is this is murder to at least show ted williams. >> i like geraldo like lj, an awful lot of police officers.ofc and i'm watching and i, i see five cops around him. >> and i find it almost spectacularly unbelievable to me that five trained officers, obviously lacking in a lot of training, thaty can' they can't cuff one young man and they can't get controlt cuff situation. and they all let the seemingly all of them, most them anyway,tm let the tempers get the better - of them. aney took it. soaperywayers get personally, n. there was no attempt to diffuse the situation in any way, which i believe easily could havesily been done. there was even simpl cld have j, one on one maneuvers could have enabled the police to to easily. cuff this guy. but none of them seem to have any of that training at all. the only training that th they seem to be, they only seeee to be trained to be angry. ai' and i'm not sure where the anger came from. whethey're always going to bepe people during an arrest that dtt don't want to be arrested. that is part of the job. but them doing professionallypri has to happen. that didn't happen here.on to idn' t hawhy were you xto? excellent question. >> you au have to first go back and ask where was the humanity f of these police officers? the first thing we see in the first video, they are coming up aggressively to this, man's car and they don't talk tl to the man. they ripped him out of his automobile and immediately started pepper spraying himpray inand then, sean, if you go to vide the video for that was on the lampo, you seeyo how inhumane these officers are. they are kicking this man in tha the head. they beat them. m they are saying, show me your hands. give me your hands. mewhile you're still the man i is in pain and he's calling for his mother. and hensays initially, whe took him out of that car , sean, he said, why i didn't do anything wrong. i didn't do anything wrong. or sean, this is just terribly outrage. wrong."but, sean, let me make e are clear here. black men and women who areo ar from and children are crying from the grave. we didn't do anything. this is an excellent example.isn unfortunately, exc what hasppend toppened to black people throughout the history of thisav country. and i'm very, very upset abouttu these four or five black officers, black officers treating another black mananothe you don't ev treated this man. this was you don't even treat a dog this way. think ge just on humane. and i think geraldo is right. where in the was the supervisor? why wasn't a supervisoe r on the scene supervisor in this situation? what you have to ask yourself, how did you create there was one of the officers, tete a ted . there wasn't one of these officers that don't have enough sense trainingthat had to stand back objectively, realize everyone's getting out of d bacontrock and l, call for calm, let their professionalism take over, talk to the the suspect, talk them down, talk calmly,k cm say it's going to be allly righ. nobody wants to get hurt here. we want to make sure that we weh take care ofav you as well. we have our job to do. help us do our job. tone, cadence. they know that matters inll a moment like that. >> you're absolutely right to the crime scene. sean when they got shot. i just can i just say this? this, because i think it's important to say this. >> copcos are the only professin that a judge by the individuals, the very few tha do the wrong thing. they didn't just steal someone's life. they set the professioidn't jun. prepare for months of rage, prepare for cops to be demonized over the actions of these people.e they took a man's life.e there arote the cops, the 95%, that go out there and put a badge on every single day. you've got to remember, son , we're already dealingng with limited people in the profession. remember, seanwaiter, go way tok because now we're going to have to let me go .l with s some people steppingom back as a result of this and this is what's going on inon. the profession right now. we've got a lo the professt of e police officers who are leaving the profession and they are leaving. and you've got these, inexperienced copsan out there b that are doing the job. this is what's als.o going on in the profession. and yes, you're right,and ye lawrence, this sets, ares a profession back . prof men and womenessiod men who put that uniform on every day and go out here and serve and protect the communities. these officers do not deservee e to wear the uniform of memphis, >> notsee, as police on a geraldo geraldo. >> in this particula ar case,pat the suspect was african-american. the five copiche suspect wass id african-americans. there's a so-called news network. or it's a comedk,y channel. a come i guess you have van jones yosaying at the police that killed tyree nichols were black, but who k they might stin have been driven by racism. bhe says black people are not t immune to anti black messages. f one of the sadac facts about anti black racism is that blacke people ourselves are not immune to its pernicious effects and society's message that black people are inferiosocietr unworthy and dangerous is pervasive. and it's not just van jones.jon, it's the communication workers of america. heommunicait's npr, it's al sha. it's, you know, the attorney, ben crump, who or our colleaguer john talked to earlier tonight. where does that come from here? >> you know, sean, memphis, tennessee, is where tragicallyil in april 1968,ly marti,n luther king was assassinated. since then, the city has beene s roiled by racial tension, is now predominantly black cityk with soaring crime. the police force with soar is consistently undermanned. fr they are desperate for officers. they are searching for recruitsu everywhere.it i don't know whether they'ves relaxed their standards or whata the result is . althe rel i know is what my eyel me. after a half century in thisthin business, dealing with lawlaw an and order and copsd orde of all all colors, what i seeal here ae men who are just they they reduce themselves to savage to i use the term wolfpack earlier i this it was so uncontrolled, it was so undisciplined. it was so unconto slanderous, s, unprofessional, and lawrence is right. and ted is ted's anguishesunproi is poignant and lawrence is right about settingnd law bae shortage that we have now with cops after george floyd and all these other incidentsot that have happenedincide is souf chronic, what the result of this will be is that thatll neighborhood will be be mor of the cops. they will be more crime.crim they will be hardee,r for them to recruit officers. this is a this is a body blow to law and order to race law and order, to race this is really awful. but if the protesters use this as an excuse to let met more pain, when yomou say it'stk a body blow or rather when you say it's a body blow to racism,s noere's the racial component here? now, therew, arere are good copa and there are bad cops.nd and to me it has nothing to do . with race. they are professional cops as a ths ted said, as l.j. said, as you said, that get up, putt t on that uniform. they know they're riskinghenowi their lives, but they gongtheyor servork every day to serve their communities and protectune their communities. that transcends race to mes.. and in this case, there aree tri just so many people tryingng to make this racial. is this case racial? because i don't see it. the point is sure. and i, i agree that what this does is strip race frome the question of police training and police brutality. but you cannot avoid the reality that these were five black men , young blackk m, men , macho esprit de corps, filled with verve and grit. >> it's not what i enjoy. ed the >> the police force, this race.d look what they have done. but look, look, but my pointt wh is this. look what they have done now. what look what they have done. - the blow that they got to l.j. have struck to the community. sc >> let me let let me ask you the same question. you mentioned the racial >> this iscomponent to communit >> it's about sorry. i'm sorry, l.j., go ahead. s a >> it's a humanities section., i see where you're going with this is not valid. having value for human life. >> this didn't have to go thistd way. idhave to gowhether he resisted, they didn't value his life and apparently they didn't value their own life the way r ow they showed up to thego upo scene. you don't go up to a a car that way. that's basict police one on polc one . and look, i agre101.e with my ta colleagues that training is anin issue within some of the policec departments right now, especially when it comesially we numbers that we have right now. >> but let's not be confused. these gentlemen were a part ofit an elite unit, the scorpions, okay, that is equivalent to newt york city's anticrim te unit. it takes grit to be on there.i s okay, i understandtand the job t they have to do, which is why they should have had the proper training to conduct that stop.t, and they didn't do it the right way. it was selfish on multipleit was levels to the cops deservehe riw that. do the job the right way. buayt it's also if we want to , since people want to put rason in this sun . every black man knows about the talk that our father gives us . what you're supposed to do wheny you're stopped by a police officer. we have gentlemen that got the talk as well as our black police officers. so they just didn't value lifett . >> they didn't care about any of that in that moment. lj, thght, lj, thank you, ted . williams, thank you for allo bak that. thank you. we go back to sara carter. to sa she's on the ground ingr memphid with some of the protesters now. >> sara , what's goinge on pro? hey, sean. you anad a chance to listen to what you and lj and geraldo g were saying, and i was kineraldf translate that over here.r this is dr. cooper and this is karen right here.they have bb he's a young man. they've both been here at the protests all night. we talk about we talked aboutt s this just before we came on with you, sean. you said this isn't about race. definitely not about race.t race this is about humanity. this is basic one on one humanity. we need to be able to raise our voice to help the familyut h raise their voice. so we're out here tonight. we'll be out here to make sureso that we alleviate some of the pain that won't ever go away for this family. but we can thi share our voiceso that the police needshow to dispatc thah the scorpion unt that they have put togethere pu to do these vigilante acts against any mankind. a i thinnyk that's a that'sat i a really great point and oneheav that i keep hearing over and over again.err again. these are peaceful protests.e al carry on . pro a and you're a youngnd man when y see that video and you think about yourselfan th, you think aboutmily, your friends, you think aboutwh your family, what goes through your mind. i justug think it's sad. so, you know, we do my thisung . is just a young individual.i do like, i don't wantn' to grow upg you know, i'm saying i'm raising my child to know got that, hey, you know, you've goto to be scared. and now you want to call it's officinalis. and so i just feel like it's a blessing to be here. so, you know, i'm saying fe to express know how i feel about him and by all means,, like, you know, like like we are outraged. like, this is saying, like, i don't know, not right. right. and sean, this is what we're hearing so much. it's about families. we've goaring so m t to train behind us ., we've got protesters. i hope you all cani hear me. but this is about families.famis this is about children. and i keep hearing that over and i keep hearing that over and over again. this is about making surs e that everybody's child is safe on the streets and about buildinge on the trust with thee community. again, you know, police comm i t we're hearing here in memphisn i is that people want to be ablere to trust each other again.y they want to be able to trust ab their police officials and they want to be able to trust each other. and they jusle otherant want tot message out. >> all right., sara. sara said my best to the tell the the nice people you talk to that we said thank you. the i think one of the hardest harde things everyon ie having a hard time understanding and what i can't get overwh is the lack f professionalism and the utter brutality of all this. there's something else and that's called the legal d thaspect of all this. here to weigh in on that part is fox news legal analyst greg jarrett is with us . ana if you look at the statute for second degree murder ine , thatate of tennessee would be a knowing killing of another. it cano also come from death resulting from the unlawful sale of drugs. first degree murder wouldgree m differ as muchwo as first degree is a premeditated, intentional killing ofaed inten another. manslaughter is voluntary. manslaughter is the intentional or knowing killing of another in a state of passionowing kn pn by adequate provocation sufficient to leadby act easonable person to act in ainn irrational n manner. murder, a cl second degree murder, a class a felony in tennessee. fifteen to sixty years in priso prison, and a fine of not more than fifty thousand dollars. it might be early. ing to be it's it's certainly going to be argued in court often.court. and you're the legal mind here. we have situations like this. where prosecutors overcharge, undercharge, maybe get the charge wrong. eyou've seen the tape. what is your take on the charge based on the based on the letter of that lr law? >>of they got it right, shawn. second degree murder in tennessee can also be defined as the intent to commit seriousy bodily injury resulting ing in death. >> and here the videotape speaks volumes, especially the static pole camera, which really shows a vicious, savage beating resulting in death s. >> i don't buy the notion that these are insufficiently trained police officers.k i think these are well-trainedtt officersrained who got angry. "h how dare you resisowt our arrese ? how dare you run away and now you're going to pay the price with a vicious, savage beatinghs . >> this is a guy who was reportedly one hundred and reporteforty hundred fifty pou. >> they've got these burlyt thes five police officers beatingfics him with a baton, striking him repeatedly fist to the face. and then you've got that polic one police officer who's kicking him in the head not once, but twice.t tw >> of course, somebodyic is not only going to be seriously injured, they're likel buy goings an to die. so there's an intent elementelet here. these guys , these five officers charged with second degree these d every rule in the book that they're trained under. >>aine they failed to de-escalas a confrontation. calate athey failed to subdue a suspect. other police officers failed to intervene and theotn as he's dying on the ground, as nichols groundhting for his life, they fail to render aidative duy and they have an affirmative duty to do that. and by t the way, where was the sense of urgency when the medics finally, belatedly arrived it as if they just didn't care either. i understand they've been suspect. d fa perhaps they should face some criminal charges as well. crso this is a horrific case.c e but the second degree murder charges are absolutely 100% merited. and i agree. i agree that one thing i might have a slight disagreement with , again, this was an elite group within the memphis police isdepartment and by my thinking is that if you are trained, you are trained to expect a moment like this. u where where somebody is eithee agitated, alarmed, resisont resg freaking out a little bit, scared, you know, nott comp complying. they don't know what's goinglyie on .hat's go ing oni mean, that's basic trait and whatra the professionalism never kicked in that i saw. i didn't see that kick in.>> thn all right, greg, we appreciateck you joining us on this. greg jarrett. the price., dan , they'll pay the price. thank you. now, as usual, the left, i really have a hard time understanding as they areg crying racism over the death of terry nichols. ra despite the fact all i in thefficers in this case involved in the incident i are black and were subsequently and charged with second degreesecond murder.eg that didn't stop radical cnnreer contributor, as i mentioned earlier, van jones from penning an op ed.r, van j pen >> he titledding the police who killed terry nichols were black, but they mighthat killed. have been driven by racism. now, of course, serial race baiter al sharpton, he struck again with these comments over on mzoudi and see this week. >> take a look.take a this is an outrage and race still is involved.trage. aboutas you and i spoke on the phone, because i don't believe those five cops would have done thati don' to young w on a no on a traffic stop. >> right here with reaction. epic times host larry elder fox news contributor leo 2.0der. terrell. they are both lawyer s, really th three questions and one for for both of yod one fou. e legal ase the chout the legal aspectct i was e charging that i waars talking to greg jarretjut about secondly, the issue of is this racism as more than more thanav a few people have been claiming loudly. and thirdly, your overallr overl l reaction, what we're seeing here. >> leo, we'll start with you l tonight. eo. thank you very much for lettinge me address this question. first, i want to addressss t your question directly. you ask it to the other panelr . in, is this a body blow to racism? here's the answer very clearly. anno. no why? there was no racial component to this case at all. this were bad officers, regardless of race,o who basically murdered a black man. this upsets the democratic playbook. the al sharpton, the van jones, who only see white cop , blackl. victim, police officers are in all different colors. this is not nineteen fiftybut te five , but the democrats won'tm it let go . and i'll tell you right now, they're upset. so they got to try to createo a race issue. beclear to so i want to be very clear to all the panel you had on . there is no racial componentse. to this case. there are bad black officers, white officers, yellow officer brown .icer it is excessive use of forces,, bad police misconduct. secondly, i thin k it's right on point. greg is absolutely correct.i thinthis is second degree murde. why? because it's a deliberate indifference to human life, reckless disregard. those individual officers had a body blow when they were striking. intended they intended to inflict deadlyd inrm, imminenteadl harm to their date, to that individual life.dw and finally, how do i feel? i feel hurt. i have a sister who was in lawiw enforcement. those five officers disgraced th the uniform. and i'll take uniform. e the hardest part of hearing and watch this whole thing. when a man whole thi yells for s mother, it's a it's a formal side,. help me.i'm hurtin i'm hurting. afd every time i heag.r that, it affects me. >> the hard part to me be training, you know, supposed th be trained officers, larry.ed they're supposed to beey the prs . there's five of them. youne's one young man on the ground. if they have full control ifwant i. they want it, if they just take a breath, they never they never stood back . they never let any.r let -- i didn't see professionalism i kick in. >> but i'll ask you the same question i asked leo. >> well, i feel the same way,e e sean. these were five people how they could not figure out a wayay suspect,bduing the suspect, i have no idea. but again, the bottom line is nobody, but nobody is defending their actions. these were five black policet wa officers. the suspect was black. the police chief is black. there is zero evidenceer whatsoever that whatever happened to terry tha nichols had to do with his race. and for van jones, then white ic jones to inject inject racece, and for al sharpton perpetuates the notion that the police are s systemically racist and it doesn' t matter. the race of the officer officeri does something wrong. ism. systemic racisng w it produces two negativeonsequ consequences. consequence number one ,ences. u are encouraging suspects, particularly young black male suspects. surticularto resist arrest. and that never ends up well. the second thing is cops pull back after being called systemic racism. there'o s been documented all whe over the country when there's been a high profile death or killing the police pull back and there are what's called excessive deaths, people. murdered who otherwise would not have been murdered had the police beehe wouldn't habeeh and the majority of theseese exs excess deaths are the very black people the that people on the left claim that they care about. now, the other thing is , mr.mri nichols. chmom -- >> mom, larry, let me interrupt. if i can put these officers in black, i want to go back to a picture we just put up on the screen, and that is terry nichols s , his hospital bed, but looks like he's onlike a respirator just prior to hisht death. i know you've seen that picture . i mean, this he was beatente brutally. cop ru you sannw the cop running up and kicking this young man in the head and then doing itt agai again and then the punchesn. tht are thrown. and i'm just i am stunned as ah father, as a human being, that this was so prevent bull and unnecessary. and i saw no professionalism here, larry. i love cops. cops, i defend cops. i can't defend what i saww on on that videotape, on those camcorder tapes tonight. those and i don't think anybody. >> shawn, absolutely. i starte i started out by saying i don't see a single person defending what these officer see s did. something let me point out something. the police kill more suspects who are whit policewhe every year. they kill more unarmed suspects who are white every singlesingle year.ear. and terry nichols mom said itm a hates her and paints thathere ae the officers involved here are black. well, at least pointed outare ti there are two kinds of cops, good cops and bad cops and both of them come in different colors. and when you call 911, when yo u want a good cop to show up, blac you're not saying i want a black cop or an asian ort a gd a female. o sh i want a good cop toow show upul and we should deal with these bs on a case by case basis.. one more thing. nee we need perspective. i'm in l.a., the worst police scandal in the history of a city that's had many police scandals hiad is the ramparthe one scandal, the one that inspired the movie training day starring denzel washington. 70 officers were involved. that soundel washingtos like a t that was one percent owaf the then seven thousand police 00 policofficers on the city. en so we ought to be dealing basis with these on a case by case basis and not systemic racism,y because, as i said, itsy causes suspects not to comply, causesb. police to pull back . >> both have really bad consequences. >> all right, larry, leo, thank you both. i wish we were debating bo politics tonight, not the death of a you debating poli human son who had his whole life ahead of them. e we appreciate it. and we'll get back to memphis in only a minute. we're going to switcnuteh gearsr seco a second. ere.here. also earlier today, newly released footage from the very strange violent attack againstst nancy pelosi's husband, paul . nancy a screen around 2:00 a.md and overweight man with a hammer, you know, believed to be david to pappa's. his name seen here breakinger into pelosi's residence in san francisco. e br into pea short time later, paul pelosi, who was home alone ,called 911 as he was seemingly held hostage. s it's clear that this guy with ch hammer in his hand right nextng to paul pelosi is listening very word wheno en he made a call to nine one one, tryinggg to give every indication, hey, paul pelosi, this guy, i don'toi know who he is . donw wh he's in the house. house," and thank goodness thatthan the dispatcher probably trying to piece it together in the early minute of this cal tl figures out that there'sm and a problem and sends police that responded very short time. >> anyway, listen to the 911 one call. this is san francisco police. sc do you need help?isco p oleeoh, the gentleman here justf wants to come back . nancy, this is the capitol police around to no usul segment was usually herely. they usually hear about prot my wife. he thinkre's necting mo 20 seco everything's good. is i've gotgood a problem. everyth okay, i'm inin of jail. f -- ninety eight . no, no, no. this gentleman just came out of the house. okay, who what's the gentleman's name? n'and wasn't even the name was david . okay, who is david fauci five ? i don't know. i'm a friend of theirs. yeah i , he is a friend buter -- they you don't know who he is .t 5:00 a.m.. i don't know who he is . who he he says he's a friend but you a don't know who he is . no, ma'am. he's telling me i'm being verye' leading. i got to stop talking to you. goes back again. usually the capitol police are around here that usually here are here at the housee herehe hy wife." protecting my wife. know, this gentleman just came into the house. he's telling me not to do anything. i don't know who the person is . then the police arrived very quick response to two minutes, two to three minutes, based on counts. >> and here's what happened. how are you doing? what's going on here? it's good. all right.e ha drop the hammer. no. hey,mm hey, hey, hey. >> what is going on ? right. i'm not any rude. they were 15% back up country. you can get it.r [ble give mepe a deep map. >> it turns out to be an illegal immigrant from canada.wa he's now facincig statngeng and and federal kidnapping and assault charges inelus a delusional and rambling ionalstatement, he told police t he wanted to kidnap nancy pelosi. wanted to kidnap with reaction,x news legal analyst greg jarretr is back with us, alongis with fx news contributors jason chaffetz and joe. you know, greg, we we had spoken about this case beforein and the early indications were that, well, maybe you know, whwy he why did he not run out whent the police were there? because the guy was right nextw, to him and he really didn't have a choice. he was g to holwas d the guy'sk. hammerback police, you know, didn't know what they wereth coming into.e they said, put the hammehammr d. he said, nope. and that's when the attack was instantaneous. paul pelosi, a total victim inn this case. i got to give credit to the 911o operator. yoatu know, she's putting piece of a puzzle together. he's sending coded messagea puzs saying, come heldp me.aying, i'm not allowed to talk here. but hep me, is a hostage.but hes and then h ae was i mean, justws scary. horrible. scary, horrible.t happen in thi. country. >> and where was the capitol police? they shouland thed salute. >> you know, she's second in. line for the presidency. why weren't there police there e yet? >> well, they have capitol police cameras and they're supposed to be catheymonitoring those cameras.m i agree there should be security at the home, even though she's not there. >> but the videotapeotape is is absolute proof of the defendant's guilt. d not guy th he's pled not guilty. that will change.at he will likely plead not guilty by reason of insanity, which under california law is a under mental disease c or defect so severe that you either don't understand the nature of your crime or you cannotcannot distinguish right from wrong. >> d i guarantee you that's goig to be the plea. >> the burden is not on the prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt, but rather the defens e by a preponderance of evidence have to prove this mental disease or defect. d >> you know, it'efs prob probabf not going to work. only one percent of defendants try the insanity defense. and in very few cases, it's succeeds. l they'll probably have an experpb to say, oh, he suffers from schizophrenia and paranoid delusions. nia and paranoidt understand whv was doing. >> jurors have a tough time emeg that. buying out. >> you know, jason and i don't t want to talk aboutuary 6 january six anymore, but thatderstand thath anyt everyboy on that panel, especially when jim jordan and jim banks were am bnoant allowed on it, wanted to after donald trump and blamedonu himpm. nity but they missed an opportunity, to say, how do we prevent whatdh happened on january six from happening again? there o look committee to look into the five hundred and seventy four riots in the summer of 2020 that killeddf dozens of americans, injured thousands of cops, billions in property damage. but we should have come up posd. butho january six . you know, how do we secure we se the perimeter around the capital ? i would sa py wrought ironoughtd and those big cement barriersntr like they have at the whiteri ers house. but they never got to that park because they never talk to the capitol police. talkethe sergeant at arms, nany pelosi or muriel bowser, none of them. and i think that was a missed opportunity. here we have, you know, okay,ve the capitol police have cameras. they weren't being monitored c,e no one .r but this this is a person that is second in line to be president . it's the president. it's the vice president . , it's theand if, god forbid, sg happens to both of them, it's the speaker that becomes president . spe yeah. >> >> look, i i am so glad that paul pelosi is still with us. he washe a hostage. he was violently attacked.attacd and i feel for the pelosiuc family, as much as i may disagree with the politically, thbody no family should ever have to go through that. >> but i'm also outraged capitol hill police can nothi get their act togetherll police to protect the senioreaders leadership in this country. country., werotect supremehip in court justices. we need to protect cabinet secretaries. and the seniorhe senior congressional leadership. two years prior at the pelosngrr residence, people were ablele to go right up to it t and act and actually deface ituall by sv painting things all over it.thea and the idea that they would be left alone, that somebody up could walk up and beat on that door and get into the pelosi pel home is outrageous. it should never, ever happen. if the idea that it happenedne two years prior and they didn'to do anything about it is more evidence. nobodyce te to b a congressional probe because nobody should be able to get into kevin mccarthy' abls or mih mcconnell's home or chuck schumer's home. and certainlry not the pelosi home. >> joe , going to open it up again for you if you want to weigh in on the media itverage, especially in what's going on in memphis as it relates to this or things that have been said how this is a racial case on fake news, cnn, f msnbc, feel free or ifro you wat to weigh in on what happened to paul pelosi, it's a miracle he got hit hard in the head with a hammer surviving. >> that is , you know, not easy. >> thank god he survivedthank . well, regarding memphis, sean,, it's i know it's not evenk in is at 'clock in that city yet, t but it's at least comforting ths for now to see that these protests have stayed peaceful e protdespite that horrific vido that we sahow is just utterlyust outrageous. >> and i'm surtee manyrly peop rightly so, are angry by what they saw there. so it's good to see that cooler heads are prevailing as far as these protests are concerned. and as fors fa what van jones wt and al sharpton have said, thate those were racial attacks. it'ss -- thirty one flavors oftupid. stupid. that playtheyle the race card from the bottom of the deck. bottom oand , of course, they'rg to turn everything into race. even when you have five black police officers and one black victim. >> as for pelosi, sean, when a reports of this attack broke a thisw months ago, i had arguedgo on this network i wasn't alone,s that the best and most effective way to get answersthei to the questions surrounding this incident and there were many was for policonthise to immediately release the body cam footage right away. instead just releas came all tt ambiguity. instead, it took nearlyit three months for that footag tou to be seen by the public and bby slow walking.in this jusg t as police did following paul pelosi's dui arrest earlier that year. remember, crashes into anothersu car and wine country. the questions around thisonly ge attack only grew louder and the conspiracy theories profoundly stupider. buprt the questions still remaiy like, how did this crazy person come off the street to jason's point and break into the home of the third most powerfulo thee person in the country,rs the speaker of the house? and there is no real security we there. onguess she wasn't home, but one would think, given thate there was an attempted murder of a supreme court justice aturf his home and brad kavanaugh earlier this year or that year, that that this wouldth be fortified to the hilt. d be fortifiedat all times, inci security. >> and by the way, and i'llty.he leave it herre, by thee the ways the even in the country he wh should have deported years and years ago, he only overstayed his visa by 14gd years. p sean.au will so to everybody's point,be i'm glad paul pelosi will be okay. he did a great job de-escalating he did a great job ine ha desolating that situation. but if we had the body camd they footage out in november insteady of now, all these crazy conspiracy theories never would. have come to light. >> so that was a great point.t very good point. point. thank you, craig.ffetz, jared, thank you. jason chaffetz, thank you as well. ow. go back to memphis, where our own giono caldwell is live.o >> apparently, hf e has one ofwi the protesters with him. giono, what's goinngg? yes, i've ordered with meg me he is coust telling me that he's concerned that even though this is peaceful right now,hat h that the raids could start ae t any time. so it's a lot of heart instreet the streets of memphis, tennessee, right now. this is organizes see, d always. but the people who just see in the tapes are a young black man who experience their tape every day at a lifexperienced e with n unit. yeah, i believe, you know, ite t could be more it's going to beo. a lot of anger. so we'll see how to follow a day's play out. >> that's that's a word there.sh and sure that a lot of folks have been happy to see thatee t the piece that we'veha experienced here. but there is certainly some concern that things could,u happen after this.il >> it is still early inemphis memphis. back to you, sean. you know you know, jarno, as a matter of this, you're a friendo of mine.f >> you lost a family member. er >> your your brother killed senseless violence. in chicago. i can't even imagine the pain that this family's goingugh. through. you probably you prob can relate to iter was because your your brother was ha innocent and he was murdered in the streets of chicago. >>hicago unfortunately, i can't relate, but i'll tell you, one of the things that e. ppreciate is justic and these men , these policepolo officers will have their day in day incourt. timately but ultimately, what peopleeoplt want is justice, just like i want for my family. justice,my babi way brother,ntt >> all right. general caldwell, as always, caldwell, as thank you for beih

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