Historical parks civil works impose oomph. We enjoy distinct pleasure to introduce the passion of world war its again my distinct pleasure to introduce the proud son of two World War Two veterans, noah andre trudeau. Hes the author of numerous military history articles and eight Civil War History books. His articles cover a wide canvas with contributions covering the revolutionary war, Mexican American war, world war i and world war ii. And the spanish american war. His books include the last citadel as p referred to. Covering the entire siege of petersburg. Like men of war. The combat history of black troops in the civil war which is gonna be reprinted he just told me by the university of kansas press. Be on the lookout for that. Gettysburg, a testing of courage, a fresh history it. That iconic battle. In southern storm, which is a history of shermans march through georgia. Hes also authored a short paragraphy of the south leading general robert daly, robert e. Lee lessons in leadership. Thats part of the great generals series at it by general wesley kay clark. Also be on the lookout for his tours with smithsonian and hes got some coming up. Focusing specifically on lincoln and his visits to city point. Please give noah andriy trudeau a big warm welcome. [applause] all right. Starting on page one, andy. There we go. Look, its a real honor to be sharing some talk time with a group of historians assembled to say understand by your votes. You and its also a privilege to speak to a group whose knowledge about the civil war is only matched by their curiosity to learn more. I want to draw a couple of distinctions right off the bat. My colleagues im, guessing, are mostly presenting thoughtful entertaining looks at things that happened. My top might be more properly subtitled a speculation. As i will be looking at something that might have happened and i believe it did happen but i cant prove. To begin, i want to take a little bit of a side trip and i want to assure you that at some point, we are going to get into the Appomattox Campaign, were just going to start left field in back to home plate. I want to ive realize that what i have put together about the Appomattox Campaign stems from things i learned over the years by trying to be as thoughtful as i can regarding sources. And so i have a couple of points i want to make about the ways i believe that even some of the most trusted sources are potentially been manipulated by a number of factors. And i think anybody working with this material has to take that into account. In a grand way, i believe reexamination of the Appomattox Campaign will be the ultimate proof of whether or not i can convince you that its a worthwhile effort. To start with, i know what i wanted to call the first item about the didnt know what to call it. And i found myself thinking a lot about sherlock homes. Before i Read Everything i could lay my hands on about the civil war, i was a sherlock ian. I read stories, i read novels, i saw all the movies. And i read lots of books about conan doyle and homes and as i was struggling for that, what am i gonna call this first item on my list . I kept thinking back to one book about Sherlock Holmes. And i brought it with me just so you know i dont make these things up. The book was by Samuel Rosenberg and it was called naked is the best disguise. I wont go into all of it. He does an amazing job of combing through all sorts of philosophies and religions to sort of make ties to sherlock homes. But the one point he seems most proud about has to do what holmess mailing address. Holmes is more than just me knows in this room learned that 22 be baker street. To the english system, a was the first floor and be was the next four up. So rosenberg and one of those eureka moments says look, that means that an every tale of sherlock homes there is a second story. Because of this, i said yes, thats what i need here. Second story, thats going to be one of my ideas. Im guessing that more than a couple of you have spent some time researching battles, campaigns using primary sources. And while i wont ask for a show of hands, i suspect that a couple of you have probably found you have to eye witnesses to the same event whose accounts cannot be reconciled. These are going to be one of these is the second story. Or youve read multiple biographies of a single subject or multiple campaign histories and youve noticed that the rioters have gone to different sources to tell different parts of the story. Much of the time, these belong in the trash bin. But sometimes, as our understanding of events changes, they can rise from the dead. I now, second stories will be reoccurring, itll pop its little head out from time to time. Now the most important thing i want to talk before i got to the main part of it. Its memory. Im a big fan of the tv series criminal minds which ended its run in 2020. Any of you have seen understand the opening sequence always ended with a shot of them in that wonderful white plane, flying often a voice over by the actor, one of the actors. A quote from some literary or political source. The one thats appropriate here came from a canadian novelist name william gibson. It says time moves in one direction, memory another. And i think we have to realize that the real outpouring of participant writing about the civil war occurred at the end of the 19th and early part of the 20th century, 20 plus years out from the events that were being remembered. And thats something i think to do it. Gibson also says he basically arguing that essential for human beings to forget things as they get older. Its just part of life. Not something to fear. On the other hand, these civil war veterans reach a point in their life or they feel its important for them to sit down what the experience in the civil war. You look at the pub dates when these appeared in magazines or articles and im guessing most of them are going to be 1880 in later. Already 20 or so years out of the civil war that point. So what i want to do is i want to look at the fact, identify two sources of manipulation that occurred in our society in that period that i think modify that natural flow of forgetting. The forces i want to steal a word that has arisen and importance in this online era of marketplace ideas. Influencers. I see that popping up again and again and again. Even on the whole covid thing, when they went to the list of doctors, hospitals you should consult. Influencers was on that list. People who either because of something they do, a lifestyle, product, philosophy acquire lots of followers. I would like to suggest that influencers existed in the late 19th and early 20th century. These were individuals with connection to the major figures and the major campaigns who gave speeches that were recorded on, provided articles that appeared in newspapers and journals and even wrote books of their own. When i research my lincoln book, i spent a lot of time looking at lincoln references after the civil war. And i began to see many of them were starting to be influenced by things that were being said. I want to give an example. I have a friend and we launch every couple of months. And we talk about this and talk about that. If somebody makes a statement thats just sitting out there, the other one who looks at him and says all right, give me a for instance. So i want to give you a for instance on where i think influencers played a role in shaping something. My lincoln book, i had lots of sources but i divided them into trustworthy trust but verify and handle very carefully. One of the trusted sources was an officer who commanded the gunboat that accompanied lincolns boat throughout his time at city point. A fellow name john barnes, he was captain of the uss that. I had nothing but admiration for barnes and i admire admire the honesty of his statements. So much so that when i hit my first crisis here, i believe i was one of the first writing about lincoln to actively consult the uss bet logbook. At that point, enable law, emily naval vessels were required to keep log so there is no logbook for the river queen. But there is a logbook for the uss bat which was captain burnss boat and when i compared barnes is recollections with the logbook, they didnt match in some places. I realized he was working from memory. He didnt have his logbook in front of him. And when i adjusted the memory to what the logbook said about things where they were or what things were happening, they all lined up just fine so i had no problem doing that. The one point where i had a little question about him was his treatment of mary lincoln. He was pretty cold and hard on her in his recollections. And by the way, there are two recollections of barnes is that the one you can access pretty easily into magazines that appeared in the early 20th century. He wrote a memory of his whole war experience, distributed in 12 tight scripts to his family. They put that one copy on lines you can find that online if that interests you. But i read his treatment of mary lincoln and i said, you know, ive seen this before somewhere. And sure enough, i found it echoing two prominent lincoln influencers. Horse porter and adam badeau. Among other things, they hated mary lincoln as the unworthy widow of the great martyred president. And she loved her home life and live to proudly. They hated her for that. Again, man versus women in those ages. And i realize that when barnes came to that point, he was probably a little bit fog in the memory and he decided to rely on the great gentlemen he knew. Im guessing here them personally because they moved in the same circles. Their memory became his memory. And thats why i had to treat that part very carefully. Now there is another force that work to shape the memories of civil war veterans afterwards. I want to stop with a this is a case where we had a supposition that i tried out and i think it worked. Years ago, once in a lifetime the friend i have lunch with. His son was an honors class in a maryland high school. And he asked his father, do you think hell come and talk to our class . He said ask him. And he asked his teachers, teacher said sure. And so without thinking, that was my first mistake. I said yeah, okay. And then the panic set in. I said what the heck im going to tell a class of teens about something they probably dont know anything about . How do i bridge that gap . Thats going to be there. This was a history honors class. They did everything from colonial times to modern times. And the civil war is probably two days, three days of stuff. But here i was going to come and stand in front of them and actually you kind of look a lot this is what it looked like. Except they were more fearful. And then i said all right, i said even if you slip through the civil war classes, im going to try something with you. Im going to say three names. And then talk about your reaction to them. Then i said lincoln. , grant, robert e. Lee. And i saw lots of nodding there. I said look, you may not know who these guys are. You may not know any details of their life. But when i said their name, an image got into your head and attached to it whether historically right or historically wrong. Were some characteristics. Thats the kind of influence im talking about. That permeates to the levels if you will of the uninitiated. Theyre going to have an opinion in their minds i about some of the important figures of the war. And i really want to emphasize everything im talking about, i think pertains to those campaigns, those times that have transcended themselves and become all those symbols of things. The battle of trudeaus elbow probably wouldnt make it but gettysburg, shermans march, appomattox. I think all of fall into those categories. I think in many of those cases, influencers help filled in some of the memory blanks on the veterans who wanted who tried that. I made some changes to the script in the morning. And i have arrows here, and narrows their. There is another force that helped shape them. There is a process that happened. If any of you have read the book lincoln the marble man. Youve encountered a circumstance where groups of individuals who were set on establishing certain specific kinds of imagery, they were influences that gave speeches, they gave talks. As a result, a very specific image emerged of robert e. Lee that really lasted well into the last century. But it was this was flowing hot in this post 19th century, early 20th century period. These old soldiers felt a compulsion to be part of this great story. It was a compulsion they wanted to remember. And when they started to tell their stories, especially of appomattox, gettysburg, shermans march. They felt heavily pressured to conform to the standard story that was out there. They were not there to challenge the story. They were there to say this was my part of this great story. My friend would say, give me a for instance. For reasons that are not smart enough to figure out who, yet shermans march. I would argue that within 20 years of the march, the standard story had been established. It was a jaunt through georgia where the problems were a few. You had roots famous song, marching through georgia. Which i think that the tone. It didnt provide any specifics but it certainly was not a funeral march. They were singing with a saying marching through georgia. It was a march of triumph. It was a march of victory. And this template only worked if as the standard story began to say everything was perfect. Everything moved exactly as they wanted. So the march veterans for their stories. They were almost compelled to write it that way. Ive picked this one because i have stumbled on to one of those ripple effects that come to within about two years of where were standing right now. 1985, a much properly respected historian wrote a history of shermans march. And he based his soldiers side essentially on published recollections of men on the march. And these men had already bought into that part of the story. So we need it is compilation and again, it was rail received and honored. He looked at those and calculated based on everything theyve said that in the course of shermans march, it rained for two days. Lets jump to 2017. When the author of civil war monitor put together an occasional feature, he called civil war by the numbers. This is the march to the sea. Upper right hand corner. Number of times that range during the savannah campaign. To. When i did my sherman book, i was out after a different objective than he was. I really was going to look at it day by day. And i wanted to get the Little Details of what went on each day. So i wound up looking at maybe 150 manuscript or type diaries. And here i can thank my ninth grade Earth Science teacher. Who love to talk about the weather. God bless him, he even convinced a local army air base to give him its discarded radar. And we had our own radar in our Little High School there. And i drawing the circles and figure out the lows in the highs. I just loved it. But as a result, weather is always on my mind. Look, im looking at you all and im guessing im not the only one in the room who has looked at a number of manuscript diaries. Speaking only for myself, i will say for the most part, they are boring. But look, its like an awkward conversation at a party. You can always talk about the weather. And i realize that even the most boring one would say, it rained in the afternoon or Something Like that. So i put out a spreadsheet. Leftwing, right wing. Entries for each day. I even tracked down a professor at the university of georgia who was as crazy as i was. She looked at my results and see said, a front came through here, you had a storm over here. Just by the weather and the temperature, things that gave her. And by my count, it rained whole or in part for eight days and it snowed for one day. None of which these guys remembering it 30 years out even recalled. Or if they recalled it, they said that doesnt fit the story. I better not say that because people will laugh at me. Hurrah, hurrah, we bring the jubilee. That was the spirit that animated this thing. The reason ive done all of this is just to give you a sense of when im looking at these sorts of things. These are a lot of the questions im trying to answer. Im afraid i have learned i trust but verify a lot of times. And sometimes i am surprised by what i find. Let me ill tell you a case. Again, the lincoln book. I was always looking for lincoln recollections. In a new york you may not have noticed this but i did because they looked at so many. Every lincolns birthdays starting about 1880, every regional newspaper, local newspaper. In february would run a sunday supplement on that week about Abraham Lincoln. Theyd have no trouble getting stories about the greatness, whatever. They would always send their cub reporter over to the local veterans home. And they would say, all right, who hear averment Abraham Lincoln . And theyd all raise their hand. And shed write down their stories. Some of which were in kansas, montana. Easy ones to get rid of. What i really liked. It was a new york soldier in a heavy regiment which is artillery regiment that you normally man seized guns but were infantry for the most part at this point of the civil war. He said he was a century at city point. And one day on his way up to meet with grant, he stopped and had a couple of pleasant words for him. That was it. Nothing more profound than that. But it was such a great moment. And i went to the doing my due diligence. I went to the civil war biography thing in park service. And i found him. And he was indeed with that regiment which i remember was the ninth new york heavy artillery. And i said great, one more thing to do. I looked at the itinerary of the new york heavy artillery. They never got within spitting distance of petersburg. And i said maybe its a detachment so i read all that tiny print. All the little dates. Nothing was detached for petersburg. So it was a harmless memory but i couldnt use it. Thats i think how this informs now when i do things to try to make those kinds of evaluations. You never know what youre going to turn up. I want to begin the turn towards appomattox and robert e. Lee. This is my that as they would say. When i was that a young kid, reading everything i could find about the civil war. I started in 1862, lee on the peninsula. I had what i called a freeze frame mentality. Snapped a shot of him at that point. Projected to 63, 64, 65. Didnt think he changed. Only after i was older and i like to think a little wiser did i realize that lee was a human being. He was a man under tremendous stress throughout the period that took its toll. And as i looked back at his campaigns throughout that period, things he said, things he knew. I havent copyrighted about this is my three faces of belize civil war career. I believe there are three distinct phases. Culminating in the Appomattox Campaign. Phase one, 1862 to early 1864. Lees self appointed mission was to maneuver the enemy into a battle of annihilation. Inflicting a defeat so severe that the north would be compelled to come to the negotiating table. This he felt as a military man endowed and im sort of thinking about lee. With certain skills and of a warrior. He could help achieve this. By doing this. This was his mantra. In fact, the question he asked time and again of his subordinates was how can we get at those people . How can we get at those people . And this was so important to him that i think it helps answer the question that people often ask. Why did he take so many risks . Because the reward was so important to him. That he took the risks. I did that little book on robert e. Lee. And i will confess to you and no one else, this is the first book i did that was a job. Meaning it wasnt my idea. Usually, i am burning alive with an idea i want. I find a publisher who buys into it. We do the book. This time, there was a publisher doing a series. And my agent got word from them and they said we got two openings. George kuster or robert ailey. And i looked and i said. I dont want to do castor. And i said all right, ill give le a try. In retrospect, im not going to speak for the book. The book is what it is. You either buy it or not buy it in terms of agreeing with me on some things. But i realized my ears and public radio really help me. Radio writing teaches you concision. In radio ive only got your year for the length of a sentence. I cant go on for 12 more sentences to sort of make that point ive got to make it right away with you or you wont get it. And the fact that this was by its format limited to 200 pages. Douglass freemans introduction is probably longer than that. It forced me to sort of boil the water a lot and get down to some of the critical things. I came across some things that im guessing were in freeman but maybe he didnt emphasize them enough. Ways in which lee was taking risks in odd places. A few days after the battle of antietam, lee called his officers together and indicated he was ready to go after again. He wanted to cross back to the river and fight him again. His officers were gentleman, they were proper but they probably gave him that gentle southern equivalent of are you crazy . And they laid out for him the losses of officers. Units that are not functional anymore. Any reluctantly agreed. This i think speaks to that sense of mission he had. Next time you hear someone say chancel ville, lease greatest victory. You have my permission to laugh at them. A robert e. Lee thought chancellorsville was anything but even victory. This is a quote. We had gained not an answer ground and the enemy could not be pursued. He had taken serious losses. Just as he was on the verge of launching that raid into the north. Im going to confess here. Im an oldfashioned guy. This is a difference between innovation and arrayed. Often youll see leagues campaign marked as an invasion. Innovation means im taking over your ground and im going to stay there. A raid is im going to hit you hard to, some damage, go back home. I think thats what this was. Only went to gettysburg and i have no reason to talk to you about what happened there. What i think we need to do. And this isnt done as often as id like to see. We need to view this action as lee viewed it. Not as able historians have viewed it. I will confess, as the author of a book on gettysburg, the question i had two biggest trouble answering is why was gettysburg important . Two more years of war. More casualties after gettysburg than before gettysburg. More property destroyed. More civilians turned homeless. What the heck to gettysburg accomplish . Other than turning back a movement by lee . That was it. So lets look at this as leave unit. Were heading to phase two of my copyrighted history of lee. This was in fact his first crisis. As he saw it. He had had every advantage in the campaign. He believed that the time of the battle his soldiers were fit and confident. He controlled the temple tempo of the campaign in battle forcing the enemy to react to him. He had several clear opportunities to smash the union army. That he could not produce a decisive victory at that time made it very clear to him he could not do it at anytime. How did lee react . August 8th, 1863, he resigned. Jefferson davis refused to accepted but the point that stood out to me in his letter to davis was when he said i cannot even accomplish what i myself desire. So lee mentally reuben crafted himself a new mission. In place of the great victory, he would harry and away union forces to buy time for a political process to negotiate an end of the war. This sustained him through the Overland Campaign and into the siege of petersburg. Again, im not going to go through the un and the yang of the Petersburg Campaign but it was gradual attrition. What i wanted to see was what kind of information was ali getting about how the war was going elsewhere. And what was he saying. What does this tell us about his state of mind at this time . Eight douglass south hall freeman would have some sort of quiet lee posed determined, capable, able. Here is what everything im going to read here are lee quotes. January 27th, 1865. He warned the confederate secretary of war of the alarming frequency of desertions from his army. Soon afterwards, order from his headquarters pronounce the penalty for advising or persuading a soldier to deserts death. Following Union Success that almost broke his lines near hatches run in february 1865. Lee told the war secretary, you must not be surprised if Calamity Falls us. A mid february. He assess the threat posed by sherman and the carolinas and predicted it may be necessary to abandon all our cities. Im giving you a window into leads mind in this critical period. Early march, he concluded a review of the overall situation with the statement that the legitimate military consequences of the enemies numerical immaterial superiority have been postponed longer than we had a reason to anticipate. Its in this period he met with the confederate congressman robert empty hunter who asked lee to tell Jefferson Davis the south could not win its case on the battlefield. Lee refused to do so but according to hunter, he never said to me that he thought the chances were over but the tone in tenor of his remarks made that impression in my mind. Hunter would be one of those second stories that i think gets dropped sometimes. It just doesnt fit the lead picture. Then in march, lee met with Jefferson Davis who made it clear he had no plan for a diplomatic solution. His only plan was to have the north inflict so much misery on the south that they would rise in revolt and give him the forces he would need to win. Now we move into i have to do this quickly know this point. April 2nd, grant breaks lisa lines and lee and has been abandoned petersburg and richmond. We can thank hollywood screenwriters for magnifying the symbolism of appomattox. There is a film currently rotational on those western channels called the undefeated with john wayne and rock hudson. Opens with wayne senior great attacking a rebel position. The next morning, wayne presents his opposite number with news of lee surrender and at the civil war was over. An episode of gun smoke has doc adam speaking to a civil war vet on a mission of vengeance. Says dock, all the violence in the world didnt and win at least surrendered. Warner brothers series law man, marshall dan troop and scorsese whose life he saved and whos now the territorial government to talk with him about amnesty. This time, the character says maybe well have a chance to arrange my own appomattox. This speaks when a campaign has this kind of power on the popular media. You can bet theres been some twisting through the story at various times. In early 1865, lee had distributed a contingency plan that should richmond petersburg defense become untenable. They would fall back to a certain fixed point. This is completely normal. This is what good commander does. Assessing possibilities. I assign a thing there. Guided by that plan, the troops rotating from richmond and petersburg marched west to converge on a point on the richmond and Danville Railroad called the amelia courthouse. Troops began reaching their on april 4th as did robert ailey. Here he paused in the official story is both told i scattered forces to regroup and to make an appeal to the citizens of Amelia County to provide provisions. Since i wont be sitting around a group of this caliber probably in the distant future at best. Im just wondering if any of you in your visits to state historical societies, museums, have ever seen an original version, original copy of that pamphlet that lee printed up and passed out . Has anyone ever seen one . Im not suggesting its not real. But ill note that Clifford Dowdy did his wartime papers of robert e. Lee. He prince the taxed with a footnote the confederate veteran. I checked the confederate veteran. It is signed the copy and receive to a small virginia newspaper who claim that they wrote it down a verbatim. If your lock this down, i would not say this is not the kind of providence that you would want to see. I believe elise appeal was a cover story. Part of louise responsibilities throughout the siege, he wouldve maintained an inventory of foodstuffs within reach of his wagons. With that in mind, i looked back through least dispatches earlier and sure enough, on january 11th, 1865, robert e. Lee told the confederate secretary of war there is nothing within reach of this army that can be impressed. The country is swept clear. Im not a farmer but you can tell me how much crops they can grow in february in march. In that part of virginia. So when the wagons came back empty, im not surprised i dont believe that lee was surprised either. I believe lee is slowly coming to terms with his third crisis point. There is no longer any point of fighting for a time of Jefferson Davis has no intention of giving into a negotiation from a position of weakness. Davis seems to believe that they would get reach that point and rise up. I think all the had experience understood that winter would havent believe otherwise. He is a man in search of a solution. He makes now makes two critical decisions. That set him on the road to appomattox courthouse. First, he does nothing. His objective point is danville virginia. 150 miles to the south along the railroad. And the temporary capital of the confederacy. From there on the same day that lee arrives at amelia courthouse, davis issues a proclamation when he says no peace will be ever made with the infamous invaders. Let us meet the faux with fresh defiance, within conquered and in conquerable hearts. Thats whats waiting for lee at the end of the line out there. Eight miles south of lee, following that a railroad is cheaters ville. It has two points of distinction. Number one, its on roads leading from the east and south. Lines of march being occupied at this point by the union army. And number two, its got an active its leads Telegraph Point to the south. Now im going to go back to my old friend Sherlock Holmes. In a story favorite story called the silver blaze, hes investigating a kidnapped horse and with a typically clumsy Scotland Yard inspector with him. And is writing back the, inspector asks homes, is there anything you wish to bring to my attention . And in one of the famous quotes that even again people who dont read a lot of homes probably know this quote. He says i commend your attention. The curious incident of the dog in the nighttime. Hes referring to the fact that the watchdog at the candle the stable where the horse was was didnt make any noise that night. Which for homeless men that somebody on the inside the job. The guy was Scotland Yard guy was said, but the dog did nothing in the nighttime. And holmes said that is the curious incident. I commend to you the curious incident of the confederate forests of infantry and calorie that listened to cheaters villain april 4th to hold open his door to the south. And the answer is there was none. And thats the curious incident. Mid morning, they moved on april 5th, they move south. They found the roadblock to jitters filled by Union Cavalry and fast arriving infantry. We now makes the most critical decision of his last campaign. On his orders, the richmond petersburg forces began moving west. New objective, the town of farm bill. They begin moving on the night of april 5th. When i give an earlier version of this talk, i move right ahead to the battles of april 6th. Then i had one of those moments best expressed by the word de. Work with me. By heading west from amelia courthouse, leaving the line of Danville Railroad, what did lee also accomplish . It runs along the railroad tax. It carries dots and dashes. The telegraph. By turning away from the railroad, lee had broken his telegraphic connection to Jefferson Davis. He was now a free agent. Able to make decisions without having to consult with him. Why is this important . Ask joseph johnston. His army around raleigh, north carolina, has shermans forces about a days march to his east. When sherman said johnson checks Jefferson Davis because there in connection. Davis wants johnson to send them all his cavalry and to scatter his infantry with orders to rendezvous at a point to the west. Johnson knows the misery this will inflict upon civilians as hordes of hungry infantry men come looking for food. He rejects daviss orders and surrenders his army. Thats what you wont see so many joe johnson statues anymore. By breaking his telegraphic communication to davis, lee is not bound to consult with him at this point. Back to virginia, 1865. Retreats are sloppy mother nature. On april six, two confederate columns got out supporting distance of each other and acted federals attacked each one. Fight near hybrids was minor but the fight along Sailors Creek resulted in a serious loss in both men and officers. Several very high ranking. Remember me at the beginning. The second story. There is a second story now thats going to emerge here. Freemans biography of lee has him being told of the disaster and then calmly issuing orders to pull things together. This was the interesting part for me. There is an alternate version they know about because freeman printed in a footnote. Which basically a set of that says well this happened but i cant believe its true and i checked with Walter Taylor. He assures me its not true. Therefore it cant be true. Lets remember Walter Taylor was one of the main influencers after the war. Promoting that image of lee that became known as the marble man. So thanks to freeman, ive got what happened there. And officer coming out from Jefferson Daviss location and asks for an update. In lee says a few more Sailors Creek and it will be all over. And it just as expected it from the first. Freemans lee wouldnt say that. But i hope you see at my point, i believe ive got ample reason to suggest that maybe he did. And 14 days in the future. Lee would write from richmond that his army at this point began to disintegrate. I think we now is looking to create an honorable situation to surrender his army. Hes all out of options, the options of inflicting misery on the countryside. He will not accept. Later when confederate cavalry want to break out, he refuses them to go now at 50, we got two moments. The army comes up on far ville and begins to assemble on the north side of the river. Now we talked about sources. To me, one of the more trusted confederate sources is edward alexander. Who wrote both a sort of a public more and a private more. We owe both are available. Its in that when we find the second story aired here it is. Alexander reports to lee for an assignment for his guns. Alexander is an old artillery man. Hes shown a map of the area. His examination of it left him puzzled. Disturbed. Here is what he wrote. These are his words. Its the first side i had a map since we left richmond i skated eagerly to see our general situation. The most direct and shortest road to lynchburg which was supposedly lees ultimate destination from farm ville did not cross the river as we had done. But kept up the southside near the southside railroad. The road we were on bent back up and then back and it was evidently longer. Finally recross the waters of the river and rejoining the straighter road at appomattox courthouse. I pointed at that place and said it looked as if their we might have the most trouble. Leeds response, road alexander, was to dismiss him with the words well there is time enough to think about that later. With that, he says his army off on the longer route to appomattox courthouse. Below on the other side of the river, Union Cavalry infantry are soon on the shorter route. I suspect a lot of these stories are known by all the officers but theyre just understanding the gentlemen dont talk about that. I think a piece of it popped up. Its while at farm bill that we received tunnel grants first request for his surrender. He still has that viable escape route. Open to him. So hes obligated by a sense of honor to keep moving. And when he asks longstreet says we must fight on or not the minimal support you. Longstreet says not yet. Which means its not all the pieces are in place it to do this. I think. Two days later, the conditions are all. Madly is boxed in. Alexander warned him he would be. He meets with grant april 9th, 1865 to surrender his army. Three closing notes. In his final address to his army on april 10th, lee probably give away more than he attended when he wrote that feeling that valor had devotion could accomplish nothing that could compensate for the loss that must have attended the continuation of the contest. I determined to avoid the useless sacrifice of those whose past services have endeared him to his country. I think lee is describing everything he was doing after leaving amelia courthouse. You may remember that i made a point of the fatally brokers connection with davis in amelia courthouse. On april 10th, grant meets informally with lee and among other things, asked some if you would want his name to a proclamation urging his hollywood generals to surrender. All of a sudden, the fact that he was not in contact with Jefferson Davis was important to lee who answered he could not make a statement without checking for us with his commanderinchief. A let you draw your own conclusions for that. Finally, on april 20th, lee got something off his chest. In a letter written to Jefferson Davis and god knows how that ever got delivered. He outlined the sorry state of affairs throughout the confederacy and concluded to save the useless suffusion of blood, iraq amendment be taken for the suspension of hostilities and the restoration of peace. So its certainly my hope that any future lee biographers will take a hard look at the campaign as ive described it. Could be wrong. Ive been known to be wrong. Three years, two months [laughs] in a way, the symbolism was so perfect to became hollywoods go to shorthand for ending the civil war. I would suggest to you that this kind of perfection does not happen by accident. I hope i dont expect everyone to agree with a revision of the appomattox story. I do hope it might inspire some to revisit the civil war as one of the most storied saugus with fresh eyes. Thank you very much. [applause] i guess if you have questions now. Ill remind you, ill be holding over here. Youre going to make a break. We have it assigned books and chat. If you have any questions right now, im happy to answer them. There are stunned. [laughs] thank you. We all want to, good. You describe the three phases of at least of 11 of the war. Do you think that it only moved in one direction or do you think it was variable so maybe the north in the 1864 campaign or jubilee would towards cc. Was that more a spectrum . Those are defensive moves. North and it was a defensive move. Throughout this campaign, leads army could do damage to the north. The crater was not a front. Sending early was just another i dont know if he had higher hopes for early. At the end of the day, early prove to be a disaster. Initially successful. But in the end of this faster. I think this conflict with the man i, think i still can explain to you why he agreed to do forward statement at that point. I think hes stuck between maybe this will do something to slow them down. And when it doesnt instead mean unfortunately, he loses a lot of men. People are complicated things. I think they can move in a direction sometimes jog, left, right, still keep in that direction. I think i would argue that this enhances in a way i think please statutory. To be the gentleman that just stuck to it, fought to the end, surrendered only when he was forced to, i think is a less appealing character than when it becomes feels the losses so personally, understands every general expects losses but expect them for again. Lee reached a point where he knew there was no more gain to be found. And the thought he would suffer more losses of these young men who im sure he admire tremendously. Caused some of these wigglings back and forth but i think if you charted here, going to see he was focused on that point. I believe after amelia station. He couldnt know that grant would do such a good job breaking his lines. Under an obvious circumstance, my understanding in 1863 he had a heart attack or a major cardiac event, i am wondering how his physical ailments or condition plays in to his attitude toward what is going on on the battlefield. He is incapacitated for several days. I checked with ray and he assigned back to intestinal distress kind of thing. For a man of lees age to brought the campaigns he does, i think it reminded him of his mortality. He put in his mind the fact there has got to be a time where i this product not here. Certainly the writing was on the wall in 1865 and i think thats where he made that turn. You mentioned some of lees correspondent in 1865 and he says if we dont evacuate or prepare spring of 1865 and he says if we dont evacuated or are at least prepared to do, that thats my first question. My second question is a little push back that he did the honorable thing. He surrendered my mics not working here, there was no choice. My first point, why didnt we, if things werent going to go well, why didnt he try to convince and prepare for richmond . And because the calamity is here at pamplin park on the second, thats what unleashes the need a new mike. I got about every fourth word. But i got your point about warning davis. So the second one of those stories i had in the script, but looking at my clock i had to jump past it. Again, freeman has lee sort of centering the calm of the storm as he is reorganizing on april 2nd. But supposedly, a korean came up to him with a note from president davis saying 24 hours is not enough for us to evacuate. And we went, i know i gave that guy ample warning this would happen. It was a burst of anger directed at Jefferson Davis. So, he did, davis was even more of a, i forget, russian cuckoo cloud world. Than anybody else in the confederacy at that point. Lee would be respectful, well, mr. Davies, things arent looking exactly as we hope they would and i think could be prudent if you considered starting to evacuate some of the last important things of the confederacy. It wouldve been not get your rear and in gear and get ready to get out of town on short notice kind of warning. Im, sorry i didnt get your second. I just couldnt hear it. Ill try it again. Its not me making that stuff cut off, i got a little button here. Alan nolin in lee considered, he said that lee made it abundantly clear before richmond spurt that the cause was lost. No one argues that any loss of life really, as you look at the beginning of spring in 65, a loss of life that is on lee. Well you say he did the honorable thing in surrendering at appomattox, how would you respond to someone like nolan who said leaves own words he said the game was up . And he continued to fight. But even to your own point, statement doesnt make sense, theres another offensive gambit according to nolan and according to your own words. Maybe one that didnt have any chance at all but he did it anyways. We lee was caught in a dilemma. He was a u. S. Army guy first, i would guess an army guy contemplating proactively surrendering to the army, his treason. I think lee, to live with himself, which he obviously did afterwards, i dont sense any regret after the war for what he did, it was like he had to bring all the right elements together at the right place and the right time for this to happen. The fact, that again, i can talk to that high school class. And if i said appomattox they, said that ended the civil war, didnt it . They would be wrong but they would be right to. Upfront. More of a comment than a question. But when you are discussing leaves first phase, looking for the decisive faze to end the war, the first thing that came to mind was the japanese in the pacific during the second world war, always looking for the decisive battle and not a war of attrition. Thats the comment. And do you think jeremy irons is a battle Sherlock Holmes then basil rat phone . Anybody else . Are we done . We got one. Regarding the comment about lee at the very end, and were his attempts futile at that point. He probably knew it wasnt going to affect anything. But warned his generals encouraging him to keep on the fight . Of course. So, he wasnt making this decision in a vacuum. I think he knew it was probably the right decision to make, but he had other people he was listening to as well. The cavalry, generals tended to be the younger generals, they wanted to break out. And he said, no. I think longstreet knew what was going on, i really do. Most of the other senior guys at that point are in chains thanks to Sailors Creek. Got one, okay. Good, keep them coming. When you say you think longstreet knew what was going on lee hadnt included him in a discussion on on longstreet, whether it was by accident or whether he had included him. I dont think there was any actual, lee would have never had a conversation on pete, you know, im thinking of surrendering in the army, what do you think . But longstreet could read the writing on the wall, and i think he was one of the generals who probably understood lee better than almost anybody else in that command. I think he could both see his struggle but also understand his objective at the end. Thats why that comment just leaps out at me. Why would he have said not yet . When you expected a more ringing affirmation of the need to fight on. To me, it said wink wink, nod nod, i know what youre thinking, but not yet. Thats my read of it, i cant tell you its solid. Yep . Ive got to stand up for robert e. Lee here. Whats his job . Its his job to make policy or is his job to make military decisions that can give his army and advantage . And i would argue that, at fort stead men entering the Appomattox Campaign, until his military options are eliminated at appomattox courthouse on april 9th, he had opportunities to fight his army to some advantage. I think that is the explanation for why lee behaved the way he did during the last couple months of the war. You could be right. But i would point out, there is no confederate counterattack during the Appomattox Campaign. Its defensive fighting that occurs at Sailors Creek. And at farm fill, again, two times he has an option to take something that would preserve his offensive possibilities. If hes had to forced down to cheaters ville and help them off and got his army moving south, that would have said he wants to keep the fight going. Or if at farm fill, he had moved his army along the south side of the river and said he was trusting epl exam to hear. If vp tells me i looked at that map here and tells me, no, i would go with him on that one. Stead men was in motion for months or a month and a half maybe. I think maybe he looked at it as buying more time, and it didnt. Anyone else . Well, thank you, thank you. [applause] middle and high school students, its your time to shine. 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