that if we take the right policy steps, if we're doing the right thing, then the politics will follow. and my mind hasn't changed on that. jeff mason, reuters. where's jeff? >> right here. thank you, sir. my question is about syria. did president putin of russia indicate any desire on russia's part for assad to step down or to leave power? and did you make any tangible progress in your meetings with him or with chinese president hu in finding a way to stop the bloodshed there? thank you. >> well, these were major topics of conversations in both meetings. and anybody who's seen scenes of what's happening in syria i think recognizes that the violence is completely out of hand, that civilians are being targeted, and that assad has lost legitimacy. and, you know, when you massacre your own citizens in the ways that we've seen, it is impossible to conceive of a orderly political transition that leaves assad in power. now, that doesn't mean that that process of political transition is easy. and there's no doubt that russia, which historically has had a relationship with syria, as well as china, which is generally wary of commenting on what it considers to be the internal affairs of other countries, are and have been more resistant to applying the kind of pressure that'ses s i necessary to achieve that political transition. we had a very candid conversation. i wouldn't suggest that at this point the united states and the rest of the international community are aligned with russia and china in their positions. but i do think they recognize the grave dangers of all-out civil war. i do not think they condone the massacres that we've witnessed. and i think they believe that everybody would be better served if syria had a mechanism for ceasing the violence and creating a legitimate government. you know what i've said to them is that it's important for the world community to work with the united nations and kofi annan on what a political transition would look like. and my hope is that we can have those conversations in the coming week or two. and that we can present to the world but, most importantly, to the syrian people, a pathway, whereby this conflict can be resolved. but i don't think it would be fair to say that the russians and the chinese are signed on at this point. i think what is fair to say is that they recognize that the current situation is grave. it does not serve their interests. it certainly does not serve the interests of the syrian people. and where we agree is that if we can help the syrian people find a path to a resolution, all of us would be better off. but it's my personal belief, and i shared this with them, that i don't see a scenario in which assad stays and violence is reduced. he had an opportunity with the annan plan. they did not fulfill their side of the deal. instead, we saw escalation. and murder of innocent women and children. and at this point we have the international monitors that were sent in having to leave because of this violence that's being perpetrated. and although you'll hear sometimes from some commentators that the opposition has engaged in violence as well, and obviously there's evidence of that, i think it's also fair to say that those haunting images that we saw in places like homs were the direct result of decisions made by the syrian government, and ultimately mr. assad is responsible. [ inaudible ] >> talk about syria with -- >> we had an intensive conversation about it. if you're asking me whether they signed on to that proposition, i don't think it would be fair to say they are there yet. but my -- i'm going to keep on making the argument. and my expectation is that at some point there's a recognition that it's hard to envision a better future for syria while assad is still there. julianna gold. >> thank you, mr. president. one of mitt romney's economic advisers recently wrote in a german publication that your recommendations to europe and to germany in particular reveal ignorance of the causes of the crisis and he said that they have the same flaws as your own economic policies. want to get your response to that. also to follow up on the question, europe has been kicking the can down the road for years. so why are you any more convinced that we won't see another three-month fix emerge out of brussels at the end of the month? >> well, first of all, with respect to mr. romney's advisers, i suggest he go talk to mr. romney about his advisers. i would point out that we have one president at a time and one administration at a time. and i think traditionally the notion has been that america's political differences end at the water's edge. i'd also suggest that he may not be familiar with what our suggestions to the germans have been. i think sometimes back home there's a desire to superimpose what ever ideological arguments are taking place back home on to a very complicated situation in europe. you know, the situation in europe is a combination of things. you've got the situations where some countries did have undisciplined fiscal practices, public debt. you had some countries like spain woz problems actually arose out of housing speck speculation and problems in housing sector that didn't have to do with public debt. i think there's no doubt that all the countries in europe at this point recognize the need for growth strategies inside of europe that are consistent with fiscal consolidation plans. and, by the way, that's exactly what i think the united states should be thinking about. the essence of the plan that i presented back in september was how do we increase growth and jobs now while providing clarity in terms of how we reduce our deficit and our debt medium and long term. and i think that's the right recipe generally. not just for us but across the board. you had a second question. what was it? >> after a -- >> oh, why am i confident? well, look, i don't want to sound pollyanna-ish here. resolving the issues in europe is difficult. as i said, there are a lot of players involved. there are a lot of complexities to the problems. because we're talking about the problems of a bunch of different countries at this point. changing market psychology is very difficult. but the tools are available. the sense of urgency among the leaders is clear. and so what we have to do is combine that sense of urgency with the tools that are available and bridge them in a timely fashion that can provide markets confidence. and, you know, i think that can be done. you know, hopefully, just to give an example, when spain clarifies exactly how it intends to draw down and utilize dollars or -- euros to recapitalize its banking system, given that it's already got support from ur of other european countries. given that the resources are available. what's missing right now is just a sense of specifics and the path whereby that takes place. when markets see that, that can help build confidence and reverse psychology. so there's a range of steps. none of them are going to be a silver bullet that solves this thing entirely over the next week or two weeks or two months. but each step points to the fact that europe is moving towards further interrogation rather than break-up. and that these problems can be resolved. and points to the underlying strength in europe's chipeconom. these are not countries that somehow at their core are unproductive or dysfunctional. these are advanced economies with extraordinarily productive people. they've got a particular challenge that has to do with a currency union that didn't have all the best bells and whistles of a fiscal or a monetary union. and they're catching up now to some of those needs. and they just need the time and the space to do it. in the meantime, they've got to send a strong signal to the market. and i'm confident they can do that, all right. thank you very much, everybody. >> so there he is, the president of the united states, making an opening statement, suggesting that he's optimistic, he's convinced the europeans know what they're doing. they will eventually do the right thing in terms of strengthening their economy and that the united states believes this will be moving in the right direction. which will have a positive benefit for the united states as well in terms of creating jobs. on syria, the president making it clear bashar all acid must go, but russia and china are not yet, he said, not yet, on that page. he thinks that maybe slowly but surely they will eventually come around to the conclusion that the united states has and so many other countries in the region have, that bashar al assad can no longer stay in power, that there will not be a peaceful situation in syria as long as he does remain in power. we're going to have extensive live coverage coming up right now. much more come up on "anderson cooper 360." >> wolf, thanks very much. yeah, very big breaking news tonight. egypt's disposed dictator hosni mubarak near death. surprise testimony in the jerry sandusky sex abuse trial. talk about his wife taking the stand. and you've just seen president obama tonight wrapping up the g-20 summit. it dealt largely with europe's economic meltdown. also the crisis in syria, especially china and russia's role in it. where the economy's concerned, though, the summit could have a serious impact on u.s. jobs and perhaps whether the president gets to keep his job. a lot of ground for us to cover. starting with some of what the president said tonight about the economy. take a look. >> now, markets around the world, as well as governments, have been asking if europe is ready to do what is necessary to hold the euro zone together. over the last two days, european leaders here in cabos have made it clear that they understand the stakes and they pledged to take the actions needed to address this crisis and restore confidence, stability and growth. let me just be a little more specific. first, our friends in europe clearly grasp the seriousness of the situation and are moving forward with a heightened sense of urgency. i welcome the important steps that they have already taken to promote growth, financial stability and fiscal responsibility. >> that's president obama tonight at the g-20 summit just moments ago. our panel, republican strategist and veteran of many summits and news conference ari fleisher. democratic strategist paul begala currently advising the top superer pac. foreign affairs correspondent jill dougherty. a ali velshi and john king joining us. >> the president's trying to talk a good game. he acknowledged himself a lot of this is out of control. he said, yes, the leaders in europe get it. he also acknowledged it would take time. so important they send positive signals to the markets right away. he acknowledged european's financial crisis going to take time. he also bluntly acknowledged he's not on the same page with china. now the president of the security council of the united nations or russia when it comes to syria. another situation the president would like to resolve. that is, in his own words tonight, not in his control at the moment. >> ali on the money front what did you hear? >> nothing. summits like this go one way or another. people come away in some agreement or they come away saying they're going their own separate ways. that's what happened here it the president didn't want to insult russia or china as john said. he also didn't want to upset europe. earlier today, manuel barrasso, the eu president, came out and said, we're not looking to the u.s. for advise or guidance. the problem the president's got, he tried to answer in his first question, when he was asked about whether the slowing job situation in the u.s. could hurt his bid for the presidency. that's the reality. the problem is that storm that's brewing over in europe where it's under way, raging in europe, is now starting to hit our shores it the president needs to be tougher on europe. as you heard from his comments, he's not willing to be right now. >> paul begala, some tough words for mitt romney's advisers at the very least, talking about criticism of a president stopping the water's edge. >> that's a tradition that's often honored in the breach. i thought that was an easy one for the president to knock back. i was struck at how carefully he had to walk the line. he's got that g-20 divided between those who believe in austerity and those who believe in stimulus and growth. he tried to thread a line so as not to offend any of his allies. on syria, thought he -- he was much tougher and much more cand candid. where he said i talked to the russians, i talked to the chinese, no progress there. he's got the civilized world on one side, russia, china, on the side of assad. it does show that, as john pointed out, he can't dictate these things. i thought he did a very good job of the detail and the nuance and the mastery of just how difficult these global summits are. >> ari? >> well, very sat in on a number of these summitsummits. these summits are often some of the most profoundly unproductive things. this was one of them. i don't blame that on president obama. it's just the nature of bringing 20 leaders together with tremendously diverse points of view. especially when the issues in europe are as complicated and they divide europeans, the way they're divided over what to do. the one thing on the domestic ajen agend agenda, the president talked about here in the united states, we can do something such as hire more teachers. once again, the president sees the solution as more government spending, more stimulus. he comes squarely on the side of the stimulus in 2009 was the right thing to do. we need another stimulus. that i think is a real domestic problem for him. the stimulus, the first stimulus, didn't work. he's not running on it. he doesn't brag about it. he keep seei ings saying we nee people on the government payroll. i think that's a problem for him going into the election. >> his supporters say it did sort of prevent us from a deeper depression. >> but then why isn't he talking about it? the fact of the matter is, the president's advisers said at the time the stimulus was passed it would keep unemployment below 8%. even in this year they projected unemployment would be above 6%. it really failed to hit all its marx. it was $1 trillion that now is deficit spending. so that's the odd thing. the president continues to call for a stimulus, inde deed, but t in word. i think that's a real problem. >> ali. >> come on, ari, you know no presidential candidate ever does the math on up employment. it comes from the congressional budget office. those are the numbers -- >> no -- >> those are the numbers that -- >> roemer was his own adviser -- you're wrong, ali, no. >> -- mitt romney has said it will be 6% under him. those are cbo numbers. the fact is, do you really think the unemployment rate two years from now has anything to do with what the president will be able to do or do you think it has ha do with europe and the slowdown in china, the storm clouds in the rest of the world? it's not partisan, it's not about waushgs it's about the rest of the world right now. >> but, ali, the reason the president has re-election difficulties is because the economy is doing so poorly and the president made tremendous promises to the american people that he would reduce unemployment and he hasn't honored those promises and he hasn't fixed the economy he inherited. that's the problem. it was not cbo, it was the president's own advisers in the transition -- >> everybody was saying -- >> ali, don't say things that are wrong -- >> were you not saying, ari, because i was studying all of those projections but the fact is when you say that the stimulus didn't work, where would we be without that right now? what would our unemployment rate be without that right now? we're in a worldwide battle between stimulus and austerity. austerity's not working. and you're arguing for it. you want to put america into that. that's not the right answer, ari. >> well, that's your opinion. >> before we go down the road with this debate, i want to bring in jill. on syria obviously we didn't see any movement. you look at the body language in that meeting between putin and president obama. they could not have been more far apart physically. and it seems like certainly ideologically and strategically on what their plans are for syria. >> they really are. here's the dilemma. we could have had this discussion and heard the president say basically the same thing weeks ago. which is the united states wants assad to step aside and move into a transition. the russian, say, look, we have no love lost for assad, but who decides, who decides whether he goes, and that's what mr. putin said, right before president obama spoke, mr. putin spoke, and he said, that's one of my fundamental positions. that no one has the right to decide for anyone else who goes, who stays. and that's the way they look at it. so maybe they're hedging their belts till they feel that assad really is going down and then they jump on the bandwagon. but right now, they can take this high position, almost a theoretical position, of saying, well, you know, nobody else should decide who goes. >> right, certainly not a position they've taken in the past on chechnya or afghanistan or other places where they intervene militarily. breaking news out of cairo to talk about, we'll take you there shortly live. we'll continue this conversation after a quick break. join us on facebook, on twitter right now, @andersoncooper. a lot more ahead, stay tuned. 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[ engine revs ] the all-new cadillac xts has arrived, and it's bringing the future forward. begins with back pain and a choice. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. good eye. welcome back. we're hear with breaking news out of egypt. a stunning day back home at the sandusky trial. all of which we're going to cover tonight. president obama heading home tonight from the economic summit in mexico. he finished making some comments at the top of the hour. here's more of what he had to say about the post summit news conference. more about the context, the 2012 presidential race and sniping from the romney campaign. >> the tradition has been that america's political differences end at the water's edge. i'd also suggest that he may not be familiar with what our suggestion, to the germans have been. i think sometimes back home there's a desire to superimpose what ever ideological arguments are taking place back home on to a very complicated situation in europe. >> back now with our panel. ari fleisher, paul begala, ali velshi, jill dougherty, john king. the president pushed back against what he seemed to kb consider a lack of respect. tonight's response seems to have certainly a bit of edge, didn't it? >> well, it is an old tradition. paul and ari and i know this well. it used to be an emphasis that when the president was overseas, in major international summits, that you shut down the criticism. maybe if romney was on his bus tour, he could. but you don't criticize what the president's doing at that moment on the global stage. this op-ed piece written in an overseas newspaper by a romney adviser was taken as an affront by the obama white house. i'm going to say this and some people out there will get mad about this. democrats have done this too in recent years. ari knows this. whether president bush was up for re-election in 2004 or when bush was still president, mccain was running in 2008. some democrats violated this rule as well. so this is one of the many rules that have crumblemillion recent years. you're right, the president didn't like it. >> ari, you actually had a -- i don't know if you tweeted this. after the president said this, you said, did the president really say the politics stops at the water's edge? that wasn't how he treated bush. >> that's exactly right, and john remembers it. i remember when george bush became president and right away in 2001 then senate majority leader george mitchell criticized president bush when he left the country. paul said it right. it's honored in the breach. i think this is someone that used to be a part of american politics. frankly that changed decades ago. changed largely with the advent of cable television. i don't think it's that big a deal. i think president obama's a pretty tough guy. as for the op-ed written in the german paper, remember, president obama himself went to germany and spoke in a campaign rally in the middle of the presidential election cycle. i have a hard time seeing why something written is objectionable but something spoke seasn is fine. i don't think anybody committed any fouls today or in 2008. >> paul, do you see it the same way? >> pretty much. i quibble with one thing ari said, i don't think it's the advent of cable news. don't blame us. i think it's a collapse of the berlin wall. i think while our president had the power, and he still does, to destroy all life on earth and the soviet union had that same power -- most of our history before and after the cold war, we were just hammering each other politically. there was that brief period most of our lifetimes where it was sort of not polite. i think it's a vestige of the cold war. i still think it's a noble tradition. i agree some guy writing some op-ed hardly rises to the -- i mean, my response would have been, well, mitt romney's idea of foreign policy experience is visiting his investments in the swiss bank account in the caymans. that's kind of a political shot. maybe president's campaign can launch back at mr. romney but i don't think it's a big deal. >> jill, something that senator mccain just tweeted during the president's speech. just watched the president's comments on syria, nonsensical and out of touch. as the white house sees it, as the state department sees it, do they feel like -- i mean, it seems like he feels like they don't have many options. they still seem to be focusing on the u.n. >> oh, definitely. i mean, senator mccain has been tweeting up a storm. he called it a desperation move. has used words like this. what he wants is a very robust potentially military solution to this. one of the things, here at the state department, and the administration believe, is that syria would be very, very difficult to have any type of military solution. it's not like libya. you have -- even if you wanted to try to have safe zones, everybody in syria is mixed up with another ethnic group. there are no big areas of one type of ethnic group. they are in towns and cities. would be very difficult to protect at all by air. you'd really have to send in ground troops. so the only game in town right now for -- at least for this administration, the way they look at it is to try to put as much pressure on the assad -- the people who were supporting assad, it's not working very well, however, and then keep hammering russia to try to do what it can to entice or push assad to step aside. >> i appreciate all of you joining us for this special coverage of president bush -- president -- excuse me, president obama's remarks. there's more breaking news in cairo. thousands are in tahrir square as we speak. we're live with details next. ya know, your rates and fees aren't exactly competitive. who do you think i am, quicken loans? 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[ male announcer ] ...lost. introducing the musically enhanced htc one x from at&t. rethink possible. jerry sandusky's wife takes the stand in his child sex abuse trial. welcome back. there's also breaking news in egypt tonight. big news. conflicting reports right now about ousted president hosni mubarak. a state news agency is reporting that the 84-year-old former dictator, shown here at his trial recently, is on life support after having a stroke and being declared clinically dead. his lawyer says he's in a coma. the confusion comes at a volatile time. a look at tahrir square tonight. thousands have turned out to protest what they call a coup. the country's military rulers issued a constitutional decree yesterday, stripping the presidency of its powers. basically an end run around egypt's first democratic presidential election. joining me now, senior international correspondent ben wedeman, and on the phone, senior fellow with stanford university, author of the new book "the certaintyian rebellion." also chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. what's the latest on mubarak's health? >> we actually don't know very much. we've got two different narratives. one from the official middle east news agency several hours ago saying that former president mubarak was quote/unquote clinically dead. his lawyer, however, says he's in a comb coma, his health has deteriorated. but he insists that he's not dead. now, we are awaiting -- well, we've been waiting for quite some time for a statement to come out of the supreme council of the armed forces, which will hopefully clarify this situation, but this is just one point of lack of clarity that we have. we have two presidential nominees or candidates who both insist they won in the recent elections. we have a parliament that's been dissolved but insists it's still sitting. so these mubarak reports are just one tip of the iceberg of confusion that seems to be floating in the nile right now, anderson. >> and i want to talk about that more with ben. from a medical standpoint, his lawyer saying he's not dead, he's been in a coma now for hours and he's had water in the lungs for ten days, his blood pressure's down and that forced doctors to put him on a respirator. does that make any sense to you? what do you make of the medical information you've been hearing? >> well, you know, he's obviously an elderly person who has a history of heart disease and cancer. water on the lungs typically -- probably are referring to pneumonia that has progressed. may have even gotten into his bloodstream. when what happens, someone's blood pressure can fall and fall precipitously, quickly, and that can lead to the heart problems becoming worse. that part of it makes sense. i think the confusion, this is a confusing thing even with hospitals here in the states. clinically dead, i think what they're referring to, brain death. someone's heart can still be functioning but their brain is no longer. and brain death versus coma i think now, reading through all these reports, is the distinction. brain death is something that's irreversible. whereas a coma, someone could possibly recover from that. so that's just piecing together all these various and sometimes conflicting reports. >> so fuad, does it matter whether mubarak lives or dies i mean in the next day or so in terms of what happens in egypt now? what's really going on there? >> i think that's absolutely important and very unsentimental question, what the hell does it matter? you have an 84-year-old man in a country with a life expectancy in the mid-60s. a man who ruled for 30 years. and now he's dead, he's not dead, he's clinically dead. i'm reminded of that remark that arabs make in a kind of irreverent way. they say about someone is he dead and buried or just dead. i think the whole saga of mubarak is a side show of a side show. mubarak and the remnants of the regime around him have been very clever. what they've done is they have basically put out these stories about the health of this ruler. and they have done their best to move this man from prison where he was sent right after his trial when he was sentenced to life in prison. and they returned him to the hospital. this is really what the game is about as far as i can see. >> so fuad, in terms of the back story to the presidential election, what the military has done, has there been in all intents and purposes a cue? >> well, i think there is some element of truth in this. you have this presidential election. you ended up because of the pew cool yard nature of the way the votes were cast, you end up with the man from the old regime, you end up with mubarak's old last prime minister shafik and you end up with a man from the muslim brotherhood. each one claiming victory. i think to the extent that the numbers can be trusted from egypt it would appear that morsi has won, the candidate of the muslim brotherhood has won. and whoever is president will come into a kind of hollowed out presidency, because the supreme council of the armed forces has asserted its agenda. what's interesting about egypt today is the fact that no one is really stepping forward with a keen desire to rule. the army doesn't want to rule because they know the country is in deep distress. the muslim brotherhood doesn't really want to fully rule. so you have the chaos that followed more than 60 years of author tarrian dictatorship. >> ben, you lived there, not just reporting from there, you lived there. what do you see happening? i mean, is there now a showdown between the muslim brotherhood and the military? what is the next week hold? >> certainly what we saw today is tens of thousands of muslim brotherhood supporters and others flocking to tahrir square, to protest what they see is this cue doup d'etat. they probably want to put pressure on the supreme council of the armed forces. what they clearly don't want is a direct confrontation. because, obviously, the military far outguns the brotherhood. and when push comes to shove, most egypts probably would support the military against the brotherhood. which is an organization that has sort of 25% to 30% of the population solidly behind it. but that leaves at least 70% far from solid behind it. so they're probably pushing for concessions from the military. but not ready for a showdown. anderson. >> we'll continue to follow it closely. ben wedeman, sanjay gupta, thank you. back at home, the sandusky rain trial. his lawyer still will not say whether sandusky himself will take the stand. his wife dottie sandusky did testify today and what she said she saw and heard when a young boy spent night at their house. look at the car! my dad's gonna kill me dude... 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>> that 1 correct. she also contradicted the testimony of two of the accusers, number four and number nine. number four you'll remember, says jerry sandusky took him to the alamo bowl in 1999 and tried to sexually assault him in a motel room when dottie walked in and said "wahat's going on." she also said she said "what's going on" because jerry sandusky was angry because this young boy refused to go to a luncheon, an expensive luncheon that they had paid for. accuser number nine, he was the one who testified who said he had been down in the basement of sandusky's home and screamed repeatedly for help. dottie was asked about that by joe amendola, defense attorney. who said, quote if something happened in your basement, could you hear it? she answered, i think so, yes. then he asked did you ever hear someone yelling for help while he was staying there? her answer, no. is her also said, anderson, that her husband had no inappropriate contact with any young boys. >> what did we hear from experts about this historionic personality disorder? the defense is saying -- explains some of those letters he wrote to one of the accusers. >> right, we're hearing a lot more about this histrionic personality disorder. basically this is a disorder according to some of the doctors who testified. it's basically a disorder where you have to be the center of attention. you cannot be on the sidelines. when that happens, you act in inappropriate ways. some of the things they brought up, you have to have assistance, approval, respect, admiration and end maintimacy. basically, the prosecution, you know, got up there and basically said there's no way jerry sandusky could not be the center of attention. throughout his entire career, he was an assistant football coach. how then could he suffer from this disorder? you could see both sides going back and forth on this issue throughout the court proceeding. >> dueling experts. one of the witnesses called today was a close friend, she says she's known them for 40 years, and believes without question jerry sandusky is innocent. i talked to her earlier. joyce, you've called jerry sandusky a saint. why are you so convinced that he's innocent? >> i've known him for 40 years. i think he's a wonderful man. he's been very good to people in my family. i've had one son with down syndrome who jerry and dottie would take for dinner, take out of town for football games. i've had another son that went to his football camp. he's written to him when he's had some troubles in life. jerry's a wonderful man. >> there's at least ten alleged victims right now. ten accusers of sandusky's sexual abuse. eight of whom have testified in the trial. do you believe they're all lying? >> well, i believe in jerry and i believe in the thousands of live he's already touched who have been bettered by his relationship with them. and when you count thousands, plus knowing him for 40 years -- >> so why do you think these eight have testified? >> you know, you'd have to ask them. >> but, i mean, you must think that they're not telling the truth. >> yes, i must think that. >> do you believe they're in it for money? the defense attorney has indicated that, you know, maybe they're in it for some sort of financial settlement down the road. >> well, i think they come from poor backgrounds and i think money would be a big motivator for them. most of them have already gotten attorneys who aren't charging them anything. >> there's also eyewitness testimony from mike mcqueary, another coach who says he saw jerry sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in the locker room shower at night. and mcqueary, as far as i can tell, has nothing to gain momentarily from coming forward. in fact, he's been placed on administration leave from the coaching job at penn state since all this happened. why do you think he's testified that? >> well, his testimony has been different to different people. and i think that he didn't say it was -- he's changed his story on whether it was really sexual or who knew what it was. and as far as i know, he's on paid because he's a whistle blower and now he's suing penn state so he's out to make even more money. >> what mike mcqueary says he saw, though, he heard rhythmic slapping and he saw sandusky naked in the shower with this little boy standing behind him late at night in a shower. is there any explanation for -- in your mind, why jerry sandusky would be naked showering with a little boy and soaped up with a little boy? >> i think a lot of guys are working out. they were playing basketball. then they go take a shower. where is this little boy that mike mcqueary supposedly saw? why hasn't he come forward? if there's even a witness to say this happened? >> so you see no possible reasons why somebody doesn't come forward and talk about sexual abuse that occurred to them as a child? >> i don't know. >> you say people take showers with each other all the time. i mean, i was on a team in college. i've talked to many coaches. i've never heard of coaches showering with little boys, let alone players on their team. but little boys late at night in a coach's shower. >> well, you weren't here for court yesterday when two coaches said yes, they take showers with boys. and you go to the ymca. i go in a locker room after swimming. there's all ages of women naked in the locker room there taking showers so what's the difference? >> a grown man soaping up a little boy late at night alone in a shower. that doesn't seem unusual? >> no. he was like a father figure to a lot of these kids. you know, he'd help them take a shower. who knows how old this boy was? >> well, do you think a 12-year-old, a 13-year-old, you think they need help taking showers? >> well, mike mcqueary said he was anywhere from 8 to 12. so he could have been 8. >> well, that's joyce porter who testified today and stands by jerry sandusky no matter what, as you will -- as you hear. you'll hear more of my interview with joyce porter tomorrow night. former rutgers university student robbie is out of jail tonight. why he got an early release, ahead on "360." 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[ slap! ] [ slap! slap! slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium rich tums goes to work in seconds. nothing works faster. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums a quick check of other stories we're following. asia's here with a bulletin. >> wikileaks founder julian assange is at the ecuadorian embassy seeking asylum. he's fighting extradition to sweden for questioning in a sex abuse case. he's been under house arrest in britain for a year and a half. doren robbie sought of prison tonight. the former rutgers university student convicted of spying on and intimidating his gay roommate served 20 days of a 30 day sentence. the early release was granted for good behavior and work credit. his former roommate, tyler clementi, killed himself by jumping off new york's george washington bridge. michael phelps could be seeking a new record at the summer olympics. he's participating in ten races at the olympic trials next week in nebraska. if he qualifies for all of