The indictment of the former President Donald Trump im here tonight with my msnbc colleagues, jonathan came our, host of the saturday and sunda shows. Host of simone, and katie phang, host of the Katie Phang Show in just less than 24 hours, th president will be teflon don coming to an end. Nbc news has one of the around 30 counts related t trumps alleged role in Th Hush Money payments made t Stormy Daniels he will appear in court in New York City on tuesday his campaign now says trum will give a speech a maralago that same evening trumps legal team said toda they are quote, not doin anything, and quote, at th enrollment, but will instead wait for the arraignment to be unsealed we will take the indictment we will dissect it the team will look at ever potential issue that we will b able to challenge and we wil challenge it of course a very muc anticipate emotions becaus theres no law that fits this. There is no law that fits this we are likely to get a first look at the indictment ourselves on tuesday, but over a dozen news outlets, includin nbc, are asking the District Attorney to release it sooner. They are making a case for cameras to allot be banned in New York State cases in the meantime, the lack of charging details hasnt stoppe republicans requiring Whic Hunt House gop is the Manhattan District Attorne with at least three differen committees including congressman ji jordan, on weaponization of the federa government everything is on this table maria. We will talk with the othe chairman and look at the response we just got his letter back. We are reviewing that. This is about all of us. This is going who opposes the establishments agenda, that i maybe the most scary thing o all. Lets start theres a lot to discuss here. Simone was i think mos recently and i was watching your show with great interest about what the next few days old. You know, i played that sound of jim jordan actually and as you know, former chai of the january 6th selec committee. And he says that this amount T Obstruction Of Justice from, his republican colleagues. And he is actually ver concerned, as Many Democrats o the hill are, about this separation of power, or lack thereof. I had the opportunity to speak with lanny davis, i was quit fired up, frankly, about his client Michael Cohen, whos question he said that the very sam thing with the Trump Justice Department went after michae cohen for them, the facts in the case of the same facts they are the same facts i this case. I made the point to clarify fo mr. Davis, i said yes but th Justice Department did decline to go after he said it doesnt matter, im talking about the facts and think that is something that w are going to hear going full word from not just but i was manhattan da brags investigation. Let me ask you about this the issue of Michael Cohen, wh is central to this case, and his credibility, because he is a convicted felon, because h has admitted, as part of his business, lying for donald trump on a regular basis, ho does this all fit into it. Because that is a target o republican ire credibility is always going to be an issue, no matter wh you are. It could be the cop in thi case, the victim in this case, and eyewitness is always going to be an issue but you just add a phrase that is critical. He did it for donald trump for donald trump cohen never did it for himself and to simones point, wha lanny davis was saying, just because the fed said we are no taking this, for whateve reason, could have bee pressure from bill barr, sayin you will drop it, prosecutoria discretion, which is congressional gopers, i have congressional discretion i can do and make decisions fo what i think is appropriate. That is why lanny daviss poin is so well taken the facts of the facts they me out of anybody for this. Alvin bragg may have said dont want i will exercise my prosecutorial discretion, will go for the gold for the particular case. You know, i want to zero in on what lanny davis said to you, simone the facts are the facts. And i will urge all of us, those of us around the table everyone watching, and the American People at large, to understand that we dont kno what we dont know and we will not know until tha indictment is unsealed o tuesday. The whole conversation has bee focused on hush Money Payments to a porn star. But on tuesday, we could fin out that that simple shorthand was actually a little to simple and that the charge that the former President Coul be facing are very, very serious. The folks who are saying tha oh, this is a distant mistak and alvin bragg is going down road where he could lose, we dont know that for sure we wont know that until tuesday. Which is why i asked katie thi morning, as an attorney, whe that indictment is unsealed on tuesday, what is she looking for . That will tell her that this case is much bigger than w have been talking about. Yeah, which is why jo tacopina said, he said something to the effect of quote, no law that fit this . How does he know he has no idea yet and until you see th indictment on tuesday, you wil know what laws have been violated within an hour or two of th indictment, Voting On Th Indictment on thursday, we had pages and pages of tweets an Press Releases from members of congress with very few exceptions, saying witch hunt, george soros leftist, communist, vendetta laden alvin bragg. It was quite problematic. I do want to make the poin that the soros backed claim, i is antisemitic and i cant even believe the george soros i didnt find him. We it is a combo racist, antisemitic, and cinematic about the jewish Puppet Master or who cant b da and manhattans history. The point about what we hear from a number of donald trump allies and even, i dont kno if jeb was the ally of donal trump, but he definitely paire it with the language, seems to me like a number of people i the Republican Party apparatus are making, its taking th claim or making the argument that someone running for president , simply declarin ones candidacy, absolved them of being held accountable in the criminal Justice System. And i find that quit problematic. There is no law that says, the are Making Of A Law Becaus theres no law that says tha because we are doing that. There are a lot peopl president Around The World i that happens they are all saying, its no political. They are after me. Nbc political analyst, secur Bloomberg Opinion and law of trump expert hes the author of the biography trump nation, the ar of being the donald. Tim, you age well. You become more and more relevant every day what if we think we have seen all o it, some interesting thing have happened in the last fe days one is they say the donald trump was actually Caugh Unawares he didnt think this was gonna happen for some form of a rally your Pres Conference or something, o tuesday, after his arraignment number three, there ar conversations about how he i going to be behaving on this front, he is using it to raise money. You know, this is uncharted territory for him. He is used to using the lega system to get what he wants, t indemnity opponents, to and finally, for the first tim in his almost 77 years, of lif on this planet, he has bee held to account. It only happened once before when they talk got taken it fo Housing Projects that was decades ago you know, there is this myth around him that he has elude the law time in time again but the reality is that legal artillery lined up on hi doorstep i think of course he is afraid of it. As any person would be, who is facing the possibility of bein corrupt blocked in front of th country and i think he is most likely going to go to th streets for this so when he says he will have a Press Conference and he will make an announcement after h is arraigned, i would look wha the dog whistles already has done, he will us racial and racist dog whistles but i think the real concern here is the extent to which he and the people around him, and some members of his own party, used this to foment violence just like he did on januar 6th. I think he is cornered i think when he has exhauste all of this legal amenities an legal strategies, the defaul will be to go to the streets go to his supporters and encourage violence tim, i will ask questions about Donald Trumps behavior. There is been talk about the Court Actuating A Gag Orde Against donald trump First Question is, do you thin you would actually abide the b the . Thats such a good question i absolutely think he wont. Donald trump is Donald Trumps worst nightmare. If you actually abides by th gathering, it will probably references the son verity of the predicament. I think this is the leas potent of the legal danger that he faces. He doesnt listen to his lawyers, he doesnt listen t the second question is, nb news and other new organizations have asked the court for cameras in the courtroom. See the Court Proceedings on tuesday, do you think donald trump would actually sign on t that and say yeah, i wan cameras in the courtroom and that is also an interesting question Donald Trumps immediate for himself is probably flushest him on the other hand, theres a strong chance we will be really i think any defendant has had the right to preserv regardless of their stature or status i think to the extent that the have televisions in th courtroom, that turns it int more returnable than it should be i think that has to be weighte directly by the Justice System i think there will be pieces o that proposition that will b attractive to him, and other that will be abhorrent he will be conflicted over it. Remember, he watched what happened to his cfo, allan weisselberg. He saw allen when solberg walk in front of the cameras, i think it or fight him. I dont think he wants the sam for himself. Tim, it is Simone Sanders townsend we have talked a lot about jus what we know about this case thus far what we do know is that th judge in this case is the same judge that presided over the Allen Weisselberg case, Judg Marchand donald trump has attacked th judge online and today we hear the former District Attorney vance on this network, On Meet The Press this morning, talk about the caution that donal trump and his lawyers should heed in attacking the a brag and the judge. What do you think the, im jus the conversation in trump worl like what do you think they wil tell in that i think they were advisin that judge ruled, i think th weisselberg courtroom, with strong and steady fist and i think you will see tha again in this case but again, donald trump and th deposition, donald trump in th courtroom, donald trump in public, when he is under the threat of the Justice System holding him to account, is not an easy client for any attorney, because he just doesnt listen to them. And i think what, i think they are telling him to let the process run through and let it follow its own course. And i dont think he will have any intention to listen to that tim hague, its katie phang i had Michael Cohen on my show thi morning, both of whom use th concept that the word petrified, that they think that donal trump is finally going to be scared but you have followed him for long time. You have been in litigatio with him as well when you tend to agree tha despite the fact that he might be scared that finally he ha been didnt dated, there are very serious indictments tha are still kind of coming dow the pipeline from him, he ha no shame so im going to push back, tim and say that i dont think Allen Weisselberg do a per walk what actually becom worried. I think that man is never goin to go in the back door of that courthouse he will want to do something i the front of it. You disagree still well, i dont think he is going to go to the back door katie. I think his virtual front door will be a patio in maralago, or somewhere else. I dont know that he is goin to make a grandstand on th front steps of the courthouse. It could be proven wrong, but dont think his idea of bein on a public stage is where h is being called a suit and called to order. That has never occurred for hi before the other thing is that this i again the first of and i think the Stronges Possibility is from being in the white house again. Much more than i think the da case and there is the georgia case, for electoral fraud. He still has a civil, financia lawsuit in the state of ne york, the state a. G. And he has got a number of other suits. Unrelated to anything life as president. Not enough time, we have t keep going not enough time. And he will have to deal wit all of that. The vices tightening he is not somebody who is good under pressure lets talk about that you have followed him for long time, Michael Cohen was o with katie this morning, and h knows him for a long time. On rev. Al shows, revel will join us for a bit, Michael Cohen was on talking about Donald Trumps mindset listen to what he said he is furious right now because donald is not somebody who likes to tak accountability and alvin bragg, drop to 200 pounds accountability on his lap, the first time in his lif that he is going to be Hel Accountable for his own dirt deeds. You know, tim, heres the interesting thing. Normally the people in charg for something that they want people to think they are not guilty of, they come out and say i will have my day in court, it will prove my innocence all the legal stuff. That is not happening here theyre talking about alvi bragg in a political persecution slash prosecution, a witch hunt, all that kind of stuff. Because donald trump is no relying on the fact that the legal system will exonerat him. He is sowing the seeds of an illegitimate prosecution in the most Horrendous Wa possible, he is invoking racis and antisemitism and violenc because he doesnt have, apparently, have a good lega argument to make on the cour charges of this, which is falsification of busines records claim. It appears, at a minimum as jonathan pointed out, w dont know there is reportedly over 3 counts in this case. We may see when this indictmen is unsealed, a fact patter that is much broader and mor damning than we already know i think if it only pertains in the Stormy Daniels manner, Michael Cohen calling it a 2000pound anvil, it simpl isnt that it is a felony, misdemeanor, i think. And it, there are consequences for that certainly, but i don think it is the wittiest legal threat facing him. But, as you know, he is no making, he is not taking a legal response to lega charges. He is going around the courts. Hes going to the streets. He is going to try to create, think, the worst possibl atmosphere around this that he can, and the most distrustin thing, i think, is members o his own party are willingl trotting along in this and doing the same Marjorie Taylor greene tweeted on friday that and saying we are all going up to new york o friday, be there it is dangerous an irresponsible. This is supposed to be the party of law in order. Not the party of chaos it is interesting he is not presenting at th moment legal response to a legal situation. Tim, good to see what, a always thank you for joining us coming up, with the former manhattan District Attorney cy vance said today about why h didnt bring this indictment against donald trump when he was in charge. You will be right back why are 93 of sleep number sleepers very satisfied with their bed . Maybe its because you can gently raise your partners head to help relieve snoring. So you can both stay comfortable all night. 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