americans among the terrorists. there's conflicting information and the fbi is investigating. >> this of course is video from inside the mall moments after the terrorists stormed inside saturday. authorities now say at least 62 people have been killed and another 175 people injured. nbc joins us from outside the mall. what is the latest there? we see a few military personnel behind you. >> reporter: that's right, many military personnel are here and been saying the last few hours they have been closing in on the terrorists, the militants who overran the shopping mall three days ago and took many hostages and unknown number of hostages through the day. we have seen a thick black smoke billowing from this massive shopping mall. we've heard gunfire. we've heard explosions and we've seen a great deal of panic and confusion with police out here clearing the streets at several points over the last few hours. so still a great deal of confusion here but the kenyan authorities are speaking with a great deal of finality about this. they have been talking about a final assault, granted they have been speaking about yesterday afternoon's assault, this morning's assault in similar terms. but they are fairly confident certainly publicly so far today, tamron. >> as i pointed out it is around 9:00 p.m. there. you say a final assault. are there any indications that we might see an incredible show of military force going in to finally end this with certainty? >> reporter: tamron, it's incredibly difficult to say. we know there has been a great deal of activity happening a few hundred meters behind me in sh giant shopping mall and things have gone a little quiet in the last hour or so. that might mean there has been a significant breakthrough and might indicate progress from the perspective of the kenyan military here. we simply don't know but government officials have been speaking incredibly positively and increasingly positive over the last few hours about the progress of this incredibly complex operation. >> more on what we know about the militant group al shabab is based in neighboring somalia where it once controlled the capital and southern parts of the country. they are also known to run a large recruiting organization in several cities within the united states, including minneapolis, columbus, ohio and seattle. let me bring in our special "news nation" panel. bob win drum and "time" magazine joining us from washington, michael leiter. thank you for your time. bob, we know about an hour, 3 k3:00 p.m., this mosque in minnesota will hold a news conference and by all ktsz the imam is accused of convincing young men to fight in somalia. >> the key thing to understand here is that this mosque is not so much a center of recruiting. it is a center of where there was a lot of peer to peer discussions as u.s. officials describe it in 2006, 2007. and initially what you saw back then was recruiting based on nationalism, ethiopia invaded somalia and the recruiting pitch was your father fought against the ethiopians, what are you doing? what we know is there's a lot of people who want to this mosque and wound up in somalia but making that connection in terms of very specific recruiting is not there. there's never been any charges against these people. >> it is interesting they've chosen today to hold this news conference. i'm sure they will say we have no link to but they are attempting to get in front and we've seen it widely reported that the young men as bob pointed out feel compelled for whatever reason. the fbi has not confirmed there are any americans linked to this terror attack but it is a reasonable question at least right now. >> we know as bob said, we know that young men have gone from this country to somalia over several years and a smaller subset have ended up in al shabaab. the fbi documented this and they have reams and reams of information on this. but we don't know whether any of them were actually involved in this particular -- >> sent out a tweet on their account implying that americans were involved with this. >> but it's often in their interest and part of their propaganda machine. there have been rumors about an english woman being described as white widow, who supposedly led this attack. this is all still in the realms of propaganda and supposition. we don't have any hard facts. >> michael, let me bring you in. president obama is meeting with the nigerian president and says in this statement release, terror anywhere is terror on all of us in reaction to the attacks in kenya but michael, i heard prior reports from you saying this particular mall was seen as a target, seen as a western sized mall. and if that is the case, why wasn't there tighter security giving what happened in 1988 and bombing of u.s. embassies and including there were threats of revenge from al shabaab after authorities taken in kenya. >> threats in kenya are always common. you're absolutely right this mall really has been seen as a potential target for quite some time. but frankly, it is quite a challenge to defend public spaces, paces whereby definition people are going to be coming and going quite frequently. it's very difficult to harden these against the type of attack we saw in nairobi, which is multiple individuals with automatic weapons and grenades. you can put up barriers and stop car bombs but in sort of attack really styled a lot after what we saw in mumbai in 2008 is a really challenging one to defend against. i do want to say also, i think the graphic you showed before, it really is not correct to say that al shabaab continues to have large recruiting operations in these american cities. there was recruiting in 2007, 2008, largely in the cities you identified but through good collaboration through the fbi and state and local authorities and somali communities that were key to this, that was really choked off. what we have seen from somalia is farwesterners and not all are of somali origin. the most significant leader was from alabama, a gentleman who was probably killed a few weeks ago but we can't look at this in the u.s. as a somali problem. >> absolutely. also, we can't look at this as simply retaliation against kenya. we know that the same opera tifs or this al qaeda sect has gone after ethiopia in seeking revenge, michael. >> that's absolutely right. it's gone after ethiopia for the 2006 attack. it was rs behind the 2010 world cup bombing in uganda. it is true that u.s. officials and british officials and the like have been very closely watching somalia because they have threatened attacks beyond the region. they haven't proved able to do so yet but this is certainly something they've aspired to and you may remember the individual who stabbed the british soldier to death several months ago in the u.k. there were also reports that he was attempting to get to al shabaab via kenya in 2010. there are trans nationalal linkages and something the intelligence officials look closely at and the organization is targeting individuals, nations and westerners beyond the boundaries. >> they also used twitter, getting they are message out even in the midst of this heavy assault, one said what kenyans are witnessing at westgate is a retributions justice for crimes committed by their military. we know there's recruitment online but this use of social media by an al qaeda organization. >> this is increasingly more common. if you're looking into recruiting, would it be better to send out direct mail or would it be better to use the social media which is the cohort of people trying to use by the cohort of people trying to attract? they have attempted more recently to do recruiting. just last month it was a 39-minute video put out and aired on minneapolis television stations which showed three minnesotans died prior to the 2009 but they put them out just last month in order to prove and in order to recruit what was called the road to paradise from the twin cities. they are still trying but the other thing we are told today whereas in 19 -- in 2006, 2007, there may have been as many as 50 u.s. passport holders, today that number is down to about 20. >> and bobby -- back to the complexity of this attack, the coordinated effort and the world reaction at a time that the u.n. general assembly is happening as i mentioned, the latest remarks from the president secretary kerry saying this is a world issue. what is your assessment of the timing as well as the way this all played out and continued to play out here? >> i would be surprised if they were aiming this at the u.n. general assembly. i think although it is clear that this was well planned out, you don't get to get into a mall like that with this sort of an attack. this also comes as one other timing element, also comes at a moment when al shabaab is actually weakened over the last couple of years, a consolation of troops, many from kenya have driven al shabaab out of their strongholds including mogadishu. they need something spectacular in order to rouse their own fighters to tell people who send money and weapons around the world to reassure them and to essentially tell everyone we're still here, we're still capable of doing harm. this is as much to serve their own purposes from several different ways. >> thank you. michael leiter, thank you. we'll talk with you as this continues to play out. we'll have a live update on what's happening on the ground in 15 minutes. president and first lady arrived in new york a few hours ago. the president is in new york to take part in the united nations general assembly which kicks off today. president will address the assembly tomorrow in a speech that is expected to focus on the syrian crisis and middle east peace talks and iran's nuclear problem. he is scheduled to meet with several world leaders including mahmoud abaas and ban ki-moon. also let open the possibility for a meeting with the new president of iran. launching a major campaign to get people signed up for obama care, plus, will accused boston bomber dzhokhar tsarnaev face the death penalty? 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[ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. the white house is launching a campaign intended to defend the president's signature health care law. it will include an event tomorrow with bill clinton in new york and speech by the president on thursday as well as messaging from first lady and vice president joe biden aimed at mothers and vets and nurses. also, insurance companies will spend a billion dollars or more in advertising to convince young people to sign up for the health care law. liberal advocacy groups will go door to door to drum up support for the law. this as a new cnbc poll shows that americans are opposed to defunding obama care with 44% against it and 38% for it. opposition is even greater when the issue of shutting down the government and defaulting is included with 59% of americans opposing defunding and just 19% in support. this weekend at the congressional black caucus dinner, the president promised the law is here to stay. >> this is an interesting thing to ponder. that your top agenda is making sure 20 million people don't have health insurance. let me say as clearly as i can, it is not going to happen. we have come too far. >> the lead writer for "the new york times" the caucus blog. thank you for your time, michael. >> happy to do it. >> let's talk about this push here. we heard to start this week, i saw an ad a short time ago, but are they banking, meaning the administration, banking on this being effective? after all we've seen different messes and different attempt to educate the public for some time now. >> i think there's -- i think it's different for two reasons. i think the actual legislation is now going to go into effect the exchanges and insurance marketplaces open up for enrollment on october 1st and they'll start ensuring people on january 1st and banking on the idea once people are insured getting that benefit, that some of those poll numbers will change. it's also the case that their target is more specific this time. they need to convince somebody lying 7 million people over the course the next six months to actually sign up for insurance for first time. these are the uninsured, the target is 7 million people in first six months, that's what they are doing, knocking on doors and handing people flyers and advertising for the sole purpose of getting them to go to their computers and pick up the phone and sign up for insurance. >> it's interesting we talk about polls so much burt the snapshop from cnbc when's it's incorporated with a shut down. 59% of americans opposing defundsing the law if it is linked to the government shutdown. that's all we discussed last week as far as the gop and their strategy. >> and i think the administration does feel pretty good about where it is on that piece of it, on the political questions of who wins in the event of a shutdown and does the -- what does the american public think about the linking of the two issues, where they have a tougher challenge is the overall impression that americans have of obama care which has taken a hit repeatedly over the years since it was approved by republicans and the administration still hasn't managed to get the overall numbers up. they think they can do it once the insurance goes into effect. >> as we know the message with republicans changed from repeal and replace to simply repealing it. we don't have to tell you the number of people uninsured it remains incredible if you do not offer a viable solution for those who have no insurance. i want to discuss this ad we talked about last week and everyone else did, generation opportunity. they distributed a web video, described as creepy and disturbing and ankle sam peering from a woman during a most personal time when she's at the gin kol gift's office. they need 7 million americans enrolled, 2.7 million need to be young and healthy adults between 18 and 35. >> that's the target audience, especially for them, these young people, the invincibles who never signed up for insurance because they think they'll never get sick. the interesting thing about the ad in addition to the creepiness, it specifically comes out at the ends of that web video and says, opt out of obama care. it's really striking because nobody i've talked to can remember a time when quite so much effort has been put in place by the opposition to a law after it's been enacted. there's a lot of fighting qulornt to pass something in congress but once a law is put in place, folks say it's in place, implement it. this is one of those where that's not happening. >> quickly, michael, back to the ad blitz from the administration. we know the president is excite excellent at becoming folksy and knows how to talk one on one and in a large roomful of people at the plant in the midwest. will this effort, these ads really break it down so people can feel comfortable and really feel that they are knowledgeable and know what they are signing up for. >> i guess that's to be seen. the administration says that it's really trying hard targeting the groups you mentioned and nurses and other folks who can be what they call validators, help explain their family members, you've got to sign up and this is what it's all about. and ultimately the insurance companies are the ones trying to gets new customers and it's in their interest to put up a big ad campaign, this is how this all works. this is what it will get for you. >> make it relatable and that people can understand and feel comfortable with what they are signing on to. thank you very much. we'll see what happens with the p.r. blitz. hillary clinton breaks her admitted avoidance of the press in her first interview since leaving the state department, clinton reveals she is wrestling with the idea of whether to run for president and what she said. we'll talk about it in the first read. no apologies from a college professor placed on leave for tweeting that the nra had, quote, blood on its hands after the navy yard shooting. >> i didn't expect it would provoke the response i've gotten now but i have nothing to apologize for. >> gun rights advocates say the professor should be fired. it's our "news nation" gut check. things to work together. the timing, the actions, the reactions. everything has to synch up. my expenses are no different. receiptmatch on the business gold rewards card synchronizes your business expenses. just shoot your business card receipts and they're automatically matched up with the charges on your online statement. i'm john kaplan, and i'm a member of a synchronized world. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. nascar is ab.out excitement but tracking all the action and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media can be a challenge. that's why we partnered with hp to build the new nascar fan and media engagement center. hp's technology helps us turn millions of tweets, posts and stories 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>> reporter: well, tamron, we can't be 100% sure but certainly the government here, army military officials have been speaking positively about the progress of the operation within last few hours, some saying they are in control of most of the mall and some saying in control of all of the mall. this is a giant complex. they cannot be 100% sure that this standoff situation is over. earlier they were talking about a final assault and neutralizing the terrorists but we cannot be absolutely sure whether the gunfire we've been hearing through the day, the explosions and thick plumes of black smoke have actually been the sight and sound of the final stage of that operation but certainly consistently government officials in the last hour or so it's half past 9:00 here in nairobi have been incredibly positively, suggesting the three-day old standoff may now be in its final phases, tamron. >> you mentioned the gunfire and we were watching your coverage with our colleague as well and the black plume of smoke. do you know how long since you've heard gunfire coming from that area? >> reporter: tamron, it's been at least three hours now. we have through the last day really, last 12 hours heard occasional exchanges of gunfire, sudden explosions ringing out from the shopping mall a few hundred meters down the road from me. it is currently fairly silent here. this place is surrounded by perhaps hundreds of kenyan military personnel and we await further word from the government here who have certainly been indicating that they believe that they at the very least have this situation under control, tamron. >> thank you very much. back to politics here at home, hillary clinton opening up about her presidential ambitions, clinton admits she's been avoiding the press since leaving the state department at the end of last year. in her first interview since stepping down she makes it clear that she's considering a 2016 run and tells "new york" magazi magazine, i'm prag nettic and realistic and it's a serious decision and not one that has to be made soon. clinton also distances herself somewhat from her boss president obama telling the magazine i feel comfortable praising issues with him even when i disagreed, which obviously occurred because i have my own opinions, my own views. joining me live now, mark murray. that got a lot of attention from you at the first read team and comments made not directly by her but associates who remarked if she does run, it won't be the bill clinton show. >> tamron, everyone is under the xpegt tagss she's going to run in 2016. there's a long time to go between now and the spring of 2015 when the campaigns will be off and running, but the sign i've looked for, if she decides to close the doors in interviews and bodily language with aides and right now that door is wide open for her. and everyone is under that assumption. as regard to former president bill clinton, i think you are right. the totality of that new york magazine interview was the message of her associate saying if we run in 2016 we're going to do it with hillary people, not bill clinton people who ended up staffing a lot of key positions in 2008. >> i know you know a lot of insiders and get good information living in the town. when she says she's pragmatic and realistic, what is to be -- i don't want to read too much into it. what do you think she means there? >> tamron, i think you can read a lot into those terms. i think pragmatic and realistic is that someone who does feel like they are their party's best chance to continue to be in the white house. i think that a lot of democrats can see that as big time prag ma tix, particularly with the problems that the republican party has when it looks at electoral, the presidential future elections with demographics, the party's respective brands, et cetera. i would kind of almost read that into it. but i think the bigger indication was she clearly had an out in interviews to say i'm not interested in running and don't want to run. she hasn't said that for month. that's the important takeaway. >> thank you very much, mark. still ahead, a texas grandfather makes a gruesome discovery, his three grandchildren, son and daughter-in-law all killed in an apparent murder suicide. we'll have the latest plus the highly anticipated movie blew caprice, depicting the d.c. sniper attacks hits theaters across the country this month. >> go. >> we'll talk with the movie's director about his chilling account of what happened. has it's ups and downs. seasonal... doesn't begin to describe it. my cashflow can literally change with the weather. anything that gives me some breathing room makes a big difference. the plum card from american express gives your business flexibility. get 1.5% discount for paying early, or up to 60 days to pay without interest, or both each month. i'm nelson gutierrez and i'm a member of the smarter money. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. they're the days to take care of business.. when possibilities become reality. with centurylink as your trusted partner, our visionary cloud infrastructure and global broadband network free you to focus on what matters. with custom communications solutions and responsive, dedicated support, we constantly evolve to meet your needs. every day of the week. centurylink® your link to what's next. ♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ female announcer ] at 100 calories, not all food choices add up. some are giant. some not so giant. when managing your weight, bigger is always better. ♪ ho ho ho ♪ green giant a family of five found dead in their home in texas. what police are investigating as a murder suicide. the bodies of two adults and three children, ages 4, 8 and 10 were found shot to death sunday night in the town of rice, 40 miles south of dallas. records show the father was previously arrested on a misdemeanor family violence charge. vice president joe biden is in colorado to get a firsthand account of the damage from the massive flooding there. the vice president and dr. jill biden expected to survey the ongoing recovery efforts and meet with the governic jo ior j hickenlooper. more than 2,000 square miles have been damaged and the number of people who died in this flooding now at 8. president obama found himself in a familiar position yesterday of meeting with families after a mass shooting. the president noted it was the fifth time he's had to do this as he delivered remarks during a memorial service for the victims of last monday's navy yard shooting. as authorities continue searching for answers as to what drove alexis to carry out the attack. a new movie examines the actions of another shooter, blew caprice depicts the beltway shooting sniper and they did not fit the so-called typical profile of a mass shooter. also like alexis, mohammed had served in the military. >> see my son anywhere? >> not really your son, is he? >> what are you doing, dude? >> how many people have you killed? >> i'm sorry. >> the sniper must be able to calmly and deliberately call without an apparent reason. the sniper must not be susceptible to emotions such as an anxiety. >> go. go. >> blue caprice gives a chilling account of what drove the snipers to carry out the three-week shooting spree throughout the nation's capital and examines the relationship between malvo and his dangerous father figure. >> thanks for having me. >> as a reporter i covered the story, and the nation terrified and when these two people emerge ar were eventually caught, there was shock, the backgrounds and relationship and you dig into their story in this film. why did you want to bring this to the big screen? >> what really interested me was the father and son relationship that john and lee had. use that as an analogy to talk about the culture of violence that exists in america and how some things we start breeding this kind of typical violent behavior. >> when you say the culture of violence in america, you know what happened last week as we pointed out, the president addressing families again following a mass shooting here. do you expect controversy as you delve into the culture of violence, that it seems to exist, as we debate what to do? >> i don't expect controversy. i think people have been taking it for what it is, a critical look of this appetite for violence that we have. i think what happened last week is just similarities and same biproduct of the mill tarization and there are accidents happening more and more often unfortunately. >> you talk about the relationship and we have a clip of mohammed and malvo walking the street and depicting their relationship. he claims he was sexually abused by mohammed and this boy essentially was taken advantage of in many ways physically, emotionally and abused here and pushed to these actions, that he is responsible for and is in prison for. >> yeah, absolutely. we didn't know that aspect of the relationship when we shot the film two years ago. so that is not in the film, but the film is quite a fascinating story about manipulation and twisted love between this father and son ultimately a ripping -- i think basically how this young lee is turning into a child soldier, how do we educate people into accepting violence. >> isaiah washington getting critical praise as the movie, won the 2013 sundance category innovative storytelling. outside of this exploration of why these violent things happen, what do you want people to get out of this film? we witnessed it and lived it and watched it all play out in real time with real video. what does this movie in your opinion do? >> i think that the movie doesn't have a clear like call to saaction. it is a very open narrative and it's -- so far the response has been amazing but quite different from when i played where they are directly impacted and we played also in france where people knew very little about those facts. so the movie can bring things to people. i really treat it -- it's not a d docudrama, we're looking at what is the genesis -- >> how a killer is born? >> exactly. >> thanks for having me. it has been praised the critics and seems stunning and compelling. >> a journalism professor placed on leave for his own safety after receiving death threats after tweeting that the nra had blood on its hands after the navy yard massacre. it's our gut check. providing a free world-class education for anyone, anywhere. if you look at a khan academy video, they cover everything from basic arithmetic to calculus, trigonometry, finance. you can really just get what you need at your own pace. and so, bank of america came and reached out to us and said, "we are really interested in making sure that everyone really understands personal finance." we're like, "well, we're already doing that." and so it was kind of a perfect match. who gets the allstate safe driving bonus check. rock beats scissors! 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[ female announcer ] call an allstate agent and get a quote now. there's a lot going on. here's this things we thought you should know. in a statement, the president praised de blasio for having bold ideas. former secretary of state madeleine al bright is now on twitter. she announced her arrival with this tweet, first of three female secretary of states, last to join twitter, better late than never. those are the things we thought you should know. time for the gut check, university of kansas professor has been forced to take a leave of absence after what he says has been a barrage of threats over a tweet he sent that was critical of nra. in the hours after last week's navy yard shooting, professor david guth tweeted out, blood is on the hands of the hash tag nra. next time, let it be your sons and daughters. the tweet sparked an online backlash on social media. many are calling for the professprofess er to be fired. thanks so much for joining us today. what is your reaction to that tweet? >> well, i happen to think he's right and i'll take it a step further. as i said on this program in the past after several mass shootings, if 20 members of congress were shot last monday instead of 20 naval officers a few miles away, do you think members of congress would revisit requiring background checks for criminals and the mentally ill. the nra thinks that the -- that the second amendment trumps the first. but the first amendment is important too. even if the person disagrees with the nra and they do like congress have blood on their hands. >> but, john, some would say that by all accounts in the reporting here there were a number of red flags, chuck hakle even makes that point from mental health issues to whether or not information was passed along. clear information that this man was beyond troubled and potentially a danger there. would that still be applicable to those who have known he was troubled and violent? >> i think so. he was shooting guns off multiple times in public and arrested for it. that information should be push lick. we have a gun epidemic in america that results in 87 dead people every day, 20,000 since sandy hook. i'm a gun owner, we have to start addressing mental health as a potential barrier to buying high powered weapons. >> but the nra -- they have not objected to mental health legislation, they've not been 100% supportive of it either but in addition to the nra, you do have health advocates who say they have privacy concerns. i guess my question is, when you're singling out the nra and it says let it be your sons and daughters, that some people believe that was a cross of the line. >> well, i mean, is it across the line when a rock shock radio host like pete san tilli has the nra board member and ted nugent from the gun owners league of america saying the bush family and obama family and hillary clinton's crotch should be shot. this is a dialogue that we need to have in this country about who's responsible for gun violence. and the nra's money is responsible for corrupting congress and congress is to blame for not requiring background checks for all private gun sales including at gun shows and internet and private dealers so you can find out if somebody is mentally illinois. >> john rosenthal, thank you. go to facebook.com/newsnation so cast your vote. 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