phone lines are open. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. pts, 202-748-8002. very good monday morning to you. we begin with a few headlines stemming from the national anthem protest. here's yesterday's daily news out of new york, "flagged." niners quarterback won't stand for anthem in country that oppresses black people. and to today's sports section in the "washington post," kaepernick says he'll continue to sit during the national anthem, defiant and determined, e associated press writes, san francisco quarterback colin kaepernick plans to sit through the national anthem for as long as he feels is appropriate and until he sees significant progress in america, specifically when it comes to race relations. yesterday colin kaepernick talked more about his protest. here's some of that interview. >> there's a lot of things that need to change. one specifically, police brutality. there's people being murdered unjustly and not being held accountable. cops are getting paid leave for killing people. that's not right. that's not right by anyone's standards. >> colin, so many people see the flag as kind of a symbol of military. how do you view it, and what do you say to those people? colin: you know, i have great respect for men and women that have fought for this country. i have family, i have friends that have gone and fought for this country. and they fight for freedom. they fight for the people. they fight for libber zpi justice for everyone. and that's not happening. i mean, people are dying in vain because this country isn't holding their end of the bargain up as far as, you know, giving freedom and justice and liberty to everybody. it's something that's not happening. and i've seen videos, i've seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they fought for and have been murdered by the country they fought for. on our land. that's not right. host: colin kaepernick receiving support and criticism over the weekend as this story develops from friday, continuing into today. members of congress starting to weigh in on this as well. bill johnson, a republican from ohio, he writes on his facebook page yesterday, very sad to see san francisco quarterback colin kaepernick refuse to stand to honor our flag and our country as the national anthem was played. he has a first amendment right to not stand. i wonder if he has thought about that fact that in most nations across the globe, those kinds of basic freedoms and liberties don't exist. they only exist in abundance here in america. thankfully, he says, our men and women in uniform will continue to protect his rights even if he uses those rights to disrespect the very nation that grants him the opportunity to play professional football. hopefully he understands that the american public and football fans everywhere also have the same first amendment rights to not support him or any team he plays for am i hope he's prepared to accept the consequences of his actions. republican bill johnson. will show you some of the other reactions that have happened since that protest on friday. as we go through our first 45 minutes today. we're asking for your opinions. we want to you weigh in. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. we'll begin with our line for democrats. stephanie is in new jersey. stephanie, good morning. stephanie, you with us? caller: yes, i am. host: go ahead. what do you think? is it ok to use the national anthem to protest? caller: i'm sorry? host: is it ok to use the national anthem to protest? caller: well, you know, it -- he was -- i mean, he just didn't want to salute the flag. it's his right. i don't understand why this is even an issue. i mean, people protest all the time. i mean, he wasn't using -- he didn't come out and say i'm using it to protest as far as i know. am i right? host: he said that he won't stand for the national anthem. he said when there's significant change in this country, and i feel like the flag represents what it's supposed to represent, that this country is representing people the way it's supposed to, then i'll stand is what he was quoted as saying. caller: ok, what i'm saying is, if he didn't outright come and say this or was he asked the question tooze why he did not stand for the national anthem. host: that was his quote in the associated press. he gave an extended 18-minute interview about this yesterday after all these questions came up in light of what he did on friday. caller: after he was -- after he didn't salute, you know, salute the flag. host: right. caller: which he was asked why he didn't. i mean, somebody saw him and he asked -- host: he's been asked several times, stephanie, and we'll go through some of the reaction for you. we want to hear reaction from our viewers as well to get your sense of whether it was ok to do, specifically during the national anthem. robert is in california, an independent. robert, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. my opinion is he's got a right to express his personal political views about, you know, as a citizen. however, when he refuses to salute the flag, particularly in public, he's a representative of his team, and he's a public figure. and he's gone over the line. host: why is it over the line specifically when it comes to the national anthem, robert? caller: well, he's insulting everybody in america. that's why we have the national anthem, to show unity and positiveness and how wonderful this country is, and no one has ever said that this country is perfect. but it is that overused term, it's a no-brainer. host: robert, are there other no-brainer moments for protest in your mind rked or is the national anthem the only one for you? what if it was during the pledge of aleens or something like that? caller: it's demonstrative. it's one specific incident that's over the line. obviously there's other examples of people burning a flag and doing other things like that that are over the line, but particularly since the gentleman is a fun pig, he and sents san francisco, this country has been wonderful to this guy. i mean, he's a crybaby. host: all right. robert in california. other public figures weighing in. this is congressman peter king from new york with an extensive statement from his facebook page t. reads in part, colin kaepernick's refusal to stand for the national anthem is entirely wrong. of course america has problems, he writes. every country in the world has problems. but no country has done more to address those problems than the united states. that is why so many millions of immigrants from all over the world are desperate to come to america every year. if we are to address problems such as street crime, education, and job opportunity honestly, then we must debate them honestly. having an nfl quarterback insult our flag by refusing to stand during the flying of the star spangled banner adds neither honesty nor intelligence to that debate. jim in florida, a republican. good morning. caller: good morning. as a disabled vet, i think it's kind of disgusting. i think they ought to fire this guy. he's had more opportunities than anybody else. turning down a couple million dollars a year and everything else, and now he's trying. i think they ought to suspend him, fine him, or get rid of him. i don't care how good a football player he is. it's just a disgrace to america. host: the foirns put out a statement in the wake of this controversy. the team statement reading the national anthem is and always will be a special part of the pregame ceremony. it is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on great liberties we are afforded as citizens. in respecting such american principles as freedom of religion and free come of expression. they go on to say that there are -- that's a different statement from colin kaepernick there on the screen for you. but the 49ers with their statement yesterday, saying that with the end of that statement, we recognize the right of individuals to choose to participate or not in our celebration of the national anthem. that was the end of the 49ers' statement for you there. let's go to bill, santa rosa, california, an independent. bill, good morning. caller: good morning. yes, i think our leaders sort of set the tone for disrespecting the country when they disrespected the rules of the house when they had their sit-in earlier this year. although i don't have a lot of respect -- or i mean, i don't know if this situation really calls for it. i have a lot of industry for the black lives matter folks, because i think generally i see people who are powerless are not getting a fair break from ur control justice system. i don't think public defenders are up to the task that they're given. i think the powerless people in general, and often black lives are less powerful lives. i have some country for it, but when i think we live in a time when we see so little respect from our leaders for the rules, we can't expect that much from our citizens when it comes to especting the symbols. host: is it the venue and timing and not necessarily the message here that you think might have caused this controversy? caller: exactly. because it's a sporting event, and, you know, i sort of wish we could keep athletics, whether it's the politics, sort of separate. and because it's not like -- if there was a more immediate event here in san francisco perhaps, i would understand it a little more, but because it's sort of general and it's such a political year, i'm not sure if i completely have sympathy for our local sporting team on this one. but i respect the right of people, and i think it's important for us to get the feedback. if it's important enough for people to make that strong of a statement, we need to know it, so i'm glad we live in a free country where people can make that stand. host: why do you think sports and patriotism and the military are so closely tied in this country? why sing the national anthem at the beginning of these sporting events? caller: well, you know, sports almost is like a symbol of the struggle that, you know, military almost is, like the ultimate sport. it's the ultimate states. when we put all our might of all our country behind something we feel so strongly, and sports is almost like a symbol for putting your all behind something. so i think there's parallels there. host: robert, riverside, california, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? host: doing well. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to say that, first of all, this is not a federal, official position, so i mean, people forget, everybody's talking and kind of demonizing the individual here. the problem is that we have freedom of speech, and isn't that a beautiful thing? nobody is talking about freedom of speech and the individuals. if this was a white guy, oh, my god, he's such a great, loyal patriot. but if he's black or if he's colored, oh, my god, he's such a demon, he's ignorant, stupid. what can we do? ow can we penalize this guy? that's the problem. host: some information on colin kaepernick's background from the nfl.com news story about this event and his protest. kaepernick says that he thought about going public with his feelings for a while, but that i felt that i need to understand the situation better. he said that he discussed his feelings with his family, and after months of witnessing some of the civil unrest in the united states, he decided to be more active and beloved. kaepernick, who is biracial, was adopted and raised by white parents and siblings. tom is in forest groh, oregon, independent. tom, good morning. go ahead. caller: good morning. i just want to remind everybody the lyrics to the song are the home -- the land of the free and the home of the brave. we're free to express what we el, and obviously he was really brave, or if it cost him some fines or benches him or gets him traded to another team, maybe it wasn't so brave, maybe it was stupid. but we need to all know the reality that black lives matter is trying to put forward to let everybody see they're not just paranoid, they're not just angry and they're not just exaggerating. this is real stuff, and he wanted to be seen. he wanted to be heard, and he wanted to express himself. i applaud him. host: all right, tom in oregon. edward writes in, this is something that the media and politicians will blow overboard. ignore it and it will go away. he got his 15 minutes of headlines. and jimmy says, actually, i don't understand playing the anthem before every sporting event anyway, so that question f why sports and -- are so related to the military and to patriotism. want to get your thoughts on those questions and this national anthem protest. diane is in texas, democrat. good morning. go ahead, diane. caller: good morning. i agree with him, because the national anthem, along with the pledge of the allegiance, does not apply to black americans. the disrespect that we've seen from the house and the senate against our president only enforces this. so i aplay the man. give him kudos. host: why do you think it doesn't apply to black meshes? caller: because it's not true. we're not all treated the same. that's a big difference. that's why black lives matter. to bring it to the forefront, so that everyone can see that all lives matter. but black lives and brown lives are being treated differently. how can we proudly say this and really honor it? it's a 235u8shood, just like so many lives are overlooked. but a lie is a lie no matter how big or small. we should be better than that. thank you. host: there's a column in today's "usa today" sports section about this, kaepernick deserves praise for stand against injustice. the inside jump page, he writes, agree with his methods or not, kaepernick is a fresh example, showing that the constitution applies to all americans, including those in football uniforms. the way i see it, kaepernick just earned a lot of street cred for at least standing up for something he's passionate about, knowing full well there could be a political price to pay -- host: that was today's "usa today." rob sin in utica, ohio, independent. good morning, robin. caller: hello. host: go ahead. you're on the "washington journal." caller: hi, i would just like to say, my son is a high school football player, and he's also studying criminal justice to become a police officer. and i think that the black lives movement is a great thing, but i also believe that, you know, with him studying to be a police officer, obviously it's worrysome for me as his mother, but i think that him being a football player, he needs to realize he is a role model. and that there are teenagers out there watching him, and if he wanted to make a stand and he wanted to be a real model and he wanted to show that he was standing up for something, maybe he should have taken that to a different form. maybe he should have went to he streets with the group. and protested on the streets with the group or protested with the group instead of doing it at a game. because that isn't really a good example not to stand for your anthem. host: have you talked to your son about this, about standing for the national anthem? does he talk about it? is it something that he just does because they always do at the beginning of football games, or does it mean something more to your son? have you had that conversation with him? caller: yes, it does actually mean more to him. we have a lot of military in our family. and it does mean something to him. host: robin, are there other places where this protest would have been appropriate? one of our earlier callers said that you can draw the line at burning the flag or not 1257bding during the national anthem or the pledge of allegiance. are there other places where -- that he should not do this protest, if he's looking to make this point, that you say he's certainly free to make? caller: yeah, like i said, he's certainly free to make a stand am i just think he should have thought about where he was and, you know, because he is, like i said, he is a role model to children, and he should think of that, and if he wants to be a good role model, he could still do that and still be a good example. but do it by going with a zpwrupe protesting on the street or something, not during the game. host: gotcha. let's head to new york, charlie, republican. good morning. caller: yes, good morning. the ridiculousness of this situation is we have a mediocre quarterback making $20 million a year, talking about oppression. in the end, some patriot linebacker will deal with this situation, if you know what i mean. host: i don't know what you mean. what do you mean, charlie? caller: well, how about breaking one or two of his legs. host: so, charlie, you think violence is the way to deal with this? caller: why not? football is a violent sport. look what happened to joe theismann. host: do you think that's because he was not patriotic, charlie? i think we lost charlie. judy is in virginia beach, virginia. judy, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a problem with other people trying to define what another people should do. host: go ahead, judy. caller: i hear people talking about we are allowed to have these freedoms, but because he is a -- because he did this, his freedoms don't count. it does not matter how much money he makes, whether he works in the nfl or he's a regular person, i have not put my hands across my heart in 45 years, and i'm 60. host: why do you not do that, judy? caller: because. i been fully aware of the discrimination and the way that minorities are treated in america. i am a citizen. i vote. i participate. but that does not mean i have to pledge allegiance to something that was written hundreds of years ago during the time of slavery, when there's oppression continuing to go on. the flag is a symbol. just like prayer in school. it was a symbol for years until some people decided they weren't going to pray in school, and they were forced to do it from the supreme court says you don't have to pray in court. things change. people have a right to protest any way they want to, and it doesn't matter whether you're a football player. you're saying make america great again, everything is horrible, and he's going to fix this, fix that, is he protesting america? so now we're talking about a ymbol which is the flag. we need to look at what people re actually doing. host: what would it take for you to put your hand back over your heart? what would you need to see for you to feel good enough about this country to do that? caller: i'd like to see people being treated equally. it's that simple. but when i walk down the i don't feel comfortable -- let me see if i can explain this -- around the skin head or someone like that. i would not feel comfortable going to a donald trump rally. eyes an frayed. i would be afraid, and a sarah palin rally, because people rallied up, and their conversation is -- it's not even dog whistle. it's about race and against raceful and then you've got so many americans that agree with that. so many. and then they call themselves patriots, religious, etc., and they hate other people. it would take a lot for me to do that, i have to be honest and say it would take a lot. i don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime. host: judy in virginia beach, virginia. judy mentioned donald trump and the issue of race. today's "new york times" on that issue includes with that column a poll, a quinnipiac university poll conducted august 18 through 24. one of the questions that was asked in that poll, what's people's view of donald trump's bias. this is the percentage of likely voters who think the way donald trump talks appeals to bigotry. among all whites, 54% feel that way. among white men, 50%. white women, 57%. whites with a dredge clrg, it's 58%. and whites with no dredge clrg, it's 50%. for comparison, the percentage of white voters who think the say donald trump talks about -- talks appeals to bigotry among nonwhites is 72%. that's the column today, if you want to read more about it in, it's it's in today's "new york times." some news about donald trump and some of his policy speeches and he'll be making a major speech on illegal immigration on wednesday in the great state of arizona. he says big crowds, looking for a larger venue, according to the tweet that he put up yesterday. don is in california, independent. don, good morning. caller: thank you so much. thank god for c-span. just wanted to make mention. i don't know if you happen to have the lyrics to the entire anthem, but somewhere in the third verse there is a line that, in my opinion, celebrates slavery, but i don't know the exact line. i mean, if you happen to have the lyrics. host: you're talking about the full lyrics of the anthem as it was written, the star spangled banner, as it was written, not that we usuallyer that at baseball and football games. caller: yeah, that's just the first verse. if you read the lyrics -- somewhere in the third verse, which, of course, they don't sing that. host: ok. colorado, good morning. is it ok to use the national anthem as a form of protest? caller: i believe that his message is good, it's just his ven sue wrong. sports and military, in sports you have -- you have talent and cooperation in order to win. they don't care, you know, what your race is. not only that, but in the stands, serve there. it's where we all work together as americans. i think he should use his celebrity to go out and apply the first amendment, make speeches to people in high schools and people that are growing up and stuff like that. he should also remember, black men and white men all fought together to end slavery. i hope he would think about that, all the blood that was shed in that. host: would you say you're offended by his actions? caller: i'm not -- you know, i think he has a good message. i just think he's young, and he should pick a better venusme he has an opportunity to go out and talk to many people and influence many people with his celebrity. and that he should understand that that flag, that was the flag that was used to end slavery, and i know that we have a lot of problems, and his message is good. it's on point. and we have work to do. but there are places where everybody cops, everybody works gether, and we don't want to destroy that. host: that's carlos in colorado on this level 6 offense that people are taking to this. tom addresses this in his column today in the "washington times." he asks a series of questions f. you're offended, how offended are you as an nfl fan, how important is this to you? will you stop watching games? protest of kaepernick's position? if not, then i guess your sentiment only goes so far, as long as it doesn't interfere with your monday and thursday night and sunday pleasure. that was the column today. martha is in bloomberg, indiana, democrat. good morning. caller: hello. how are you today? thank you for taking my call. host: excellent. go ahead. caller: my issue, and i really appreciate this conversation, thank you so much, but one ing that i wonder about is notwithstanding all of the oppression and the importance and the validity of the protest , i'm wondering if all protests it's not e think -- just about the anger, it's just outraged, o feel which is totally justified, of course, but if you, like the include caller, if you all people that are taking stands, including those on this that are doing your show, but they're reacting out of anger, i'm guessing, or maybe, you know, some sincere effort of teaching or sharing. it seems mostly emotional. but let's say even donald trump, he's inspired by anger. i have my power, and my pulpit, so i'm going to be angry, and you get an audience of angry people. host: what's the right way to think about this, if reacting emotionally isn't necessarily the right way? caller: i feel like the issue is suffering. do we have that in common? you know, you can say this, you know, this -- these people have, you know, let's say the blacks have it stacked against them for sure, but everyone suffers. and if you cut to the chase, if the chase is suffering, protest that, because then you apply that toward every single being. you apply that toward everyone in the stands. be they very wealthy, powerful or poor, everyone suffers. there's not a protest to that. there's no protest toward the suffering much there's just protest to individual causes, and then you have fights. host: colin kaepernick says that police brutal sit one of the things he's taking a stand against. in that clip we played of him talking yesterday, he highlighted that, the suffering from police brutality. is he not doing what you're saying there? caller: what i feel like this protest, even donald trump, trump's protest does accelerate the issue that is leading toward the discussion of ending suffering. it accelerates that, and good for them. but that's where i would say it needs to go, and then on top of that, what i feel like it is not doing is acknowledging the great work that is being done by everyone, including the bad guys. by that i mean, the bureaucrats that have to sustain the infra structure, these people are not to be ignored. these people also battle, and they take these chances, and they have to, you know, decide whether they're going to like mr. kaepernick, when he talked to his parents and thought it over, that's what everyone has to do, including, know, people hat call the show. i'm saying, if there's a discussion of suffering, not black suffering, not immigration, not, you know, baseball players, deflategate, not everything is about suffering. and there's not a discussion about discussion. there's only a discussion of about which will lead to, wait, also, now the hispanics, you know, the blacks -- the blacks have it real bad, and it's like, well, now hispanics also have it bad so. then you're now saying how we're all related with suffering. anyway, i'm just taking up all your time. host: that's ok. appreciate all the calls this morning. we want to have this discussion here on the "washington journal." got about 45 minutes in this first segment to have that conversation. only about 10 minutes left. luis is in fredericksburg, virginia, republican. good morning. caller: hi, hello. well, i think he can do pretty much what he wants to do. it's a free country. i don't think that that was a ood place to do it in. but that's beside the point. but yes, he's perfectly free. i wanted to talk about the black lives matter. i know many white people that have been killed by police. mrs. there is police brutality. it would have been a perfect opportunity for all of us to gather together to really understand that yes, there is a problem with all the writing of tickets, the harassment of the poor, the killing of innocent people. but the thing is, eric garner was not innocent. this was not a good person. and they took up his cause when they should have taken up freddie gray's or the man in new york that was selling stuff, that was all outrageous. but the 53-year-old white woman, mother of three children here over in culpepper, virginia, that was shot by a sheriff, i mean, she was shot five times. the guy got three years. host: for you, it's about economic disparity and people being treated differently along economic lines, not racial lines? caller: yes. and i think that would have been a more important point to make. it really is a shame how the small towns in america are absolutely being destroyed in the small cities, the small, ou know, small cities. there are empty buildings, they turn to drugs. i'm from a family of 17 in the state of west virginia. and i want to tell you, over the past 30 years, i've seen so much, it's just despair. it's been going on for a while. of course, everybody has credit cards, and, you know, but it's the same thing. it's predatory lending on car loans. it's increasing of insurance rates on cars and tickets from the police. it's really pretty outrageous. it really does have to stop. but it's a white and black problem. it's an everybody problem. host: all right. go to joe from fayetteville, north carolina, an independent. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think all of this goes back to the 1936 olympics when hitler politicized the lympics. but thing we should have a ned from world war ii, lot of the strife and struggling that's gone on in this world, is that people are more than willing to sit there and watch while somebody else is killed. and why don't you protest that? host: all right. one more column to show you on this topic, the "chicago tribune," he writes in his column, posted last night, that there are many types of similar protests over urban unrest going on daily in cities, such as chicago and dallas and baltimore, among others. kaepernick chose a nonviolent form, taking a stand he neither took lightly nor rushed into hastily. he never used language. never belittled another individual directly, never did anything more than making a plea for attention that he deeply cared about. he made an interpret decision, he explained on sunday. for the record, he writes, i disapprove of what kaepernick did, detest it when athletes do anything to separate themselves from the team, and object to the notion that an african-american kid adopted by whites -- and i object the notion that an african-american kid adopted by white parents who grew up to be an nfl quarterback about $30 million in career earnings accurately represents oppressed minorities, but i respect kaepernick's right to do what he did. that's the column in today's "chicago tribune." a few tweets as well, connie writes in, however this faithful -- distasteful some find it, colin kaepernick has every right. all this nonsense that sports are somehow sacred, justice is sacred. minorities especially blacks don't get justice here. and jim writes, to honor our anthem is to honor ideals, not conditions. i don't think the ideals are on trial, even the conditions are. time for more calls. send did i, new hampshire, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to say that i agree with what he did. most people have been saying the venue may not be the greatest place to do, it but i'm sure he thought it out. host: would he have gotten as much attention about this if he chose a different venue, if he went out to a protest in the streets as opposed to an nfl preseason game? caller: no, no, i don't believe so. host: that's more effective? caller: yes, definitely. and he got to say what he needed to say. obviously he really believes in the cause, and the fact that it was a peaceful, you know, protest, where you're watching is vision and you're seeing -- you're hearing about snipers because olicemen there's so much against what's happening to the black lives, i'm a white women, and a lot of lack families, but i think it's horrible what's happening. every time -- policeman getting away with or getting slapped on the wrist for shooting a black person, it really hurts my heart. and i'm so sorry this is happening. somebody does have to stand up and say something about it. host: all right. little rock, arkansas, where richard is waiting, line for republicans. richard, go ahead. caller: i managed the last 15 minutes, but colin kaepernick, he's nothing but a coward for this reason. he started last year with his shoulder hurt and anything. he started to slip in his starting position. now this year he's getting to where he's not the starter, so now he thinks by standing up and bringing up things he's never spoke been before, because i it will you, he doesn't care. he thinks now he's going to get his starting job back, chip kelly is not going to start me because i stood up. there's been too many times that people have hijacked things that are going on in the main stream public, just trying to benefit themselves and everything. if he'd have been like the guys in 1968 olympics, you know, an american from down there who really took a lifetime of punishment to stand up for etter rights is different. host: what gives you the sense that you don't think he really cares? caller: we never heard a sing he will word about this. he's had a good upbringing, good family, went to good school, had a good run in the nfl. but once things are kind of not going his way to where he's not going to be the player he was before, whether it's by injury, age, or better people out there, then he stands up at the one place where he can stay, well, i'm going to jump -- host: we talked about this issues on twitter before, but yes, this certainly is the most public of his time to speak out or not speak out, i guess. well, like i said, i think if he want his starting job, he would never sit up and say a word about it. i appreciate your help on this, man. tom all right, tom from louisiana, independent. tom, go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would say that the powers at be are aware that commingling the my team versus their team mindset that's associated with athletic events with the national pride evoked by the national anthem makes it that much easier to dupe the rank-and-file citizenry and the path of acquiescence towards so much of the unwarranted and unnecessary warfare in which we've been engaged for so many ears, and i would favor just ceasing and desisting playing of the national anthem for that reason. host: all right. tom is our last caller in this segment of the "washington journal." up next, we'll be joined by kristen soltis anderson. she joins us to talk about her work as a republican pollster and columnist with the washington examiner. we'll chat about public trust in polling and about her work-studying the millennial vote. joins us.ka poethig that's all coming up in a few minutes on the "washington journal." alk up war our public affairs and political programming any time at your convenience, on your desktop, laptop or mobile device. here's how. go to our home page and click on the video library search bar. type in the name of the speaker, sponsor of a bill, even the event topic. review the lest of search results and click on the program you'd like, or refine your search. if you're looking for our most current programs and you don't to want search the video library, our home page has many current programs ready for immediate viewing, such as today's "washington journal" or the events we covered that day. c-span.org is a public service. so if you're a c-span watcher, heck it out at c-span.org. the c-span radio app makes it easy to continue to follow the 2016 election wherever you are. it's free to download from the apple app store or google play, get audio coverage and up-to-the-minute schedule information for c-span radio and c-span television, plus podcast time for our popular fun affairs, book, and history program. stay up to date on all the election coverage. c-span's radio app means you lways have c-span on the go. c-span, created by america's cable television companies and brought to you as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. "washington journal" continues. host: kristen soltis anderson joins us now, columnist for the washington examiner, and author "the selfie vote: where men millennials are taking america." i want to talk about how people should read polls. an example last week, one from the "l.a. times." it was taken august 18 through 24 that showed the clinton-trump race in a statistical tie. and then quinnipiac poll had a poll out the same date, august 18 through 24, and had hillary clinton plus 10 in their polling. so what is an average viewer supposed to take that from that? guest: if you're just an arrival viewer, you think something's wrong. one of those polls is completely off. how can these both be correct? if you dig a little bit further into the information about how the poll is conducted, you begin to see a little bit more about why it is that these two polls, done correctly, could come up with results that are so dramatically different. the way that "l.a. times" poll was conducted, it's a really interesting methodology. they have a pool of people, and they keep going back to that same pool of people over and over and over again to ask them for their opinion. whereas for quinnipiac, they're just calling a random set of phone numbers across the country and seeing who picks up and who they can get to talk to them. so there are pluses and minuses to both of those. everybody who's a consumer of polls i think has the right to decide which type of polls they think sound more accurate. host: how do you conduct your polls? what's the best way to get the best result? guest: it depends on who you're trying to talk to. for instance, during the republican primary, my firm did a poll where you use the technology called i.v.a., interactive voice response. it's known as a robo poll, where we are calling a bunch of phone numbers, and it's an automated recording that then asks questions and takes responses. but the reason we're comfortable using that is we also called phone numbers of known registered voters. we didn't know who we were calling, but we know how know how often they voted in the past. that enabled us to do a poll that wound up being really, really accurate. on the other hand, if i was trying to study younger voters, i would never to want use that technology, because it involves calling a lot of phones, and younger voters tend to have cell phones, not to pick up. for younger voters, i use online surveys. there are a bunch of great panels that have really rigorous results that they can get you. it all depends on the audience you're trying to reach and the tools that you have available. host: what about the numbers people can trust the most? we see head-to-head numbers, but voter enthusiasm, favorability ratings. what is the most accurate depiction of where the public is? guest: i tend to really like polls that have both registered voters and likely voters specified. when you're looking at a poll, sometimes it will be a poll of adults nationwide. that's great if you're doing a consumer poll, if you want to understand the mood of the country broadly. you're looking at people who have said perhaps they're not voters. if you look at registered voters, that's better of a universe. it's technically the cool people who could possibly vote. when you look at likely voters, and now that we're so close to the election, you'll see a lot of polls that are close. the one thing i always tell people to beware of, that's just a pollster deciding who they think is a likely voter. maybe they're not basing it on whether someone says they're likely to vote, maybe they're basing it on what they think about the demographic. maybe they're based it on the history and the past. there are lots of different ways i can decide who a likely voter is. but ultimately that's an art as much as a science. whenever you see a poll that says likely voter, they aren't necessarily buyer beware, but just know there's a pollster adding a subjective environment on top of an objective level of analysis, which would be registered voters. host: kristin soltis anderson is our guest. do you trust polls? do you have questions about polls? she's a good person to talk about it, also specializes in work with millennial voters. phone lines, republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-800 . special line for millennial voters, 202-748-8003. we want to hear from you in this segment, again, 202-748-88003. when it comes to what people read about in the news, is there some gate keeping that goes on in the media, that the media is more likely to show a poll -- show a big change in a race as opposed to saying things are going as thee been going? guest: when i think about does media bias exist, i think the biggest bias that exists is toward big, flashy headlines, stories. hy so if i come out with a poll that says hillary clinton is head and donald trump is struggling is in some swing states, that doesn't make headlines, because we already know that. however, if i come out with a poll that says donald trump is ahead in the race, or that hillary clinton is ahead by double digits, that makes news. so sometimes the polls that get the most coverage aren't necessarily representative. on the other hand, there's this interesting phenomenon known as hrding, which has been seen in the last couple of elections, in particular in the british elections. that's the most major recent example, where pollsters are afraid to release polls if their numbers are wildly different from what everyone else gets. they may actually be right, but their fear of being the only one out on a limb may mean they sit on those numbers and don't release them. it kind of cuts both ways. on the one hand, the media loves to cover the outlier polls. on the other hand, if you're a pollster, there's an incentive to sit on it it and keep it quiet. host: amelia in california, our line for independents. good morning. you're on the "washington journal." caller: good morning, everybody. i want to thank you for taking my call. thank you for c-span, because california, it's still dark and 4:00 in the morning, but i will get up and watch you guys because you're worth it. host: appreciate that. go ahead. caller: i just topped say, when is there the fine line of nvasion of privacy and how exactly do you get these phone numbers to zphall do you pull the white pages and start calling people, or how do you access these phone numbers? how do you know people don't and you're all in taking their numbers? what you know i mean? why is there the fine line of invasion of someone's personal information just to take a couple hundred or maybe, you know, and how many people do you actually poll? i don't really trust the polls because it's not that you don't call millions of people, and that might persuade a person to, oh, the poll says this, or the poll says that. i'd like to really just watch c-span or read what c-span has because the majority of the established media is either going to favor hillary clinton or favor donald trump. they didn't give bernie sanders an opportunity that he should have gotten. i'm really disappointed in both the people running for president. host: let me give kristen soltis anderson an opportunity to answer a few questions there. guest: sure. what you just raised is really the large ethical burden that falls on pollsters, both how we collect that data and what happens with that data on the back end. because as you know, releasing a poll that has a certain result, there are certain countries where it's prohibited, thaw can't even release poll findings in a certain window where the election, because there are concerns that could influence the result in some negative way. there's really a big sort of ethical burden on both pieces of that. to your question about how we conduct the polls, there are a number of different ways that you can kind of get those phone numbers. the way that things have been done for the most part, for the last decade or two, is called random digit dialing, where basically a computer goes through, and it randomly generates phone numbers at rapid speed and calls them until someone picks up the phone. so in some cases, if you're getting called by a pollster, it's not because they have any other private or public information about you. your number just happened to get randomly generated. when it comes to things like the do not call list, there are exceptions for things like legitimate academic research. even if you've opted into the do not call list, or you don't want up anybody calling you, legally you still can be contacted for legitimate research studies, which sometimes confuses people. and usually the way that would happen would be through that random dialing of numbers. the second way is from the voter file. a lot of people don't know if you register to vote, that information is public record. anyone can see whether you voted, when you voted, how often you voted. host: you can't find out how you voted. guest: they can find out if you're registered to vote with a particular party, and if you vote, so your vote is incredibly secret. but the reason campaigns use this information is to try to say, well, we know this person votes all the time, and they vote in primary elections, so we want to call them as part of our sample to understand this primary election. whereas if somebody never really votes, maybe they don't wind up in the sample or their response to the poll wasn't count as much because they're statistically less likely to participate. host: happy to have a pollster here to discuss the science of polling. west memphis, arkansas, good morning. caller: good morning. toipped ask, how come every decade or whatever like that, when the presidency come around, that it has different ways that people campaigning for president actually execute eir way of getting people to vote. they have different styles of going after the young people, and different styles of going after the older generation. and every time they have tactics that how they get them interested in voting, and the ay they talk to them about the things that they do about the nation, the best person wins. every time, you know what i'm saying, they are out to talk to other campaign leaders that is containing for the same job they're campaigning for. host: voters targeting and voter turnout, not necessarily the polling, but can you talk through those issues. caller: -- guest: voter targeting is a sophisticated science. if you were running for office of course i maybe knew how to have a certain message that would reach maybe men or women, or maybe you'd choose to go on a particular tv program because you thought maybe men or women were more likely to watch it. nowadays, because of some of the information that we can glean about voters from everything from their voting history to, in some cases, consumer behavior, a lot of times people don't thrals when you send in that card for the warranty on your computer, that puts a flag somewhere on a file that says you might be interested in technology. and all of those little bits and pieces of data can wind up in the hands of both the political parties and can help them make judgments about what sorts of things you might want to hear about most. now we also have the ability to target people online. the internet has really changed the game for how you can target individual voters with a message to try to encourage them to get out the vote. if you think about the television, the airwaves are a very broad strategy. you're watching thousands, if not 34il8 yons of people all at once. whereas if i choose to put a specific ad on facebook or if i want to target a small group of people on youtube, there are ways thood with incredible precision. so it's really just a technology issue, as technology changes, campaigns trying to adapt to keep up, or to leverage that new technology as best as they can. hype lot of skepticism out there, at least from host: a lot of skeptics out there. some tweets -- in, ask your questions. we will talk with it -- about it toh kristen soltis anderson choose also the author of " the selfie vote: where millennials are leading america (and how republicans can keep up)." we have a call on the independent line. good morning. caller: you mentioned something about polling and landline phones. [no audio] was -- host: we will go on to erik in michigan, good morning. an independent. caller: thanks for taking my call. arkansas, kind of seems like they have disarray and are going after a certain crowd. i want to know how you feel about this colin kaepernick, if he was reacting emotionally or if he was just trying to get the younger people to realize what is going on in the country and try to focus on what is really about to happen with their lives. host: he is talking about the quarterback national anthem protest. is that something you have cover? guest: what is interesting about this story is there is always this question, our young people really influenced i celebrities, athletes, public figures when they take a political stance? there is often a frustration that there are not celebrities or prominent figures that speak to young people and also hold sort of right of center views. this is interesting. when somebody is a prominent athlete stands up and takes a public stand on an issue, there is a real opportunity for a lot mayounger people who, they not be watching a show like this and may not be watching the nightly news every night, but they're watching football and engaging online. so the pathways of influence are very diverse these days. influencers with target groups of people that may not be politicians, but they can influence the political discussion by engaging a group of people who may not be paying attention to the traditional political actors. in oklahoma city, democrat. caller: good morning. a really great show. i had a question i wanted your guest to kind of look at the polling, voting from a bigger, broader perspective, and i would like to get her input on this. my thing is, before we vote, we will call it pre-voting polling, how important is that if we do not really have much confidence that the actual voting and the processes in place, like professional talents, etc., are not there in the first place? you talking about millennials or voters in general? caller: i am talking about all voters, but obviously -- for example, if you look at our current voting system, we have private companies that are accountable to no one, machines code because they are protected by copyright, and a lot of millennials register this you to vote for bernie sanders. these private companies are taking that information. so we have private companies with secret code on machines hackable. three of those companies give money directly to the clinton foundation. so if we're going to look at these polls seriously, what is your guest's thoughts and opinions about looking at the exit poll data that is available right now that really throws up say currento polling is really not important if the actual votes are not counted? host: kristen soltis anderson, go ahead. guest: sure. why acrid reasons polling is so important is because in other countries, accurate exit polling is used as sort of a check by international observers to make sure elections are going as they should. here in the u.s., one of the big challenges pollsters have is we can make guesses on what votes will count, but we're sort of making a gas that is a snapshot in time. one thing about this election is we do hear a lot of discussion, particularly from sort of the trump side in the general election, about the idea that the election is rigged. and when he see these polls showing hillary clinton is up by 6, 7, 8 points, this says it is irrelevant and the large and the election is being rigged. really, there is a majority of support for donald trump. weimately, part of the way have sort of a peaceful transition of power in this country is a faith that even if our chosen candidate does not hasan election, the country spoken and we're still able to move on and have that peaceful onesition of power from leader to another or from one side to another. say, i do not necessarily know if i trust the poll, and that sort of ads another layer of doubt into the cloud of uncertainty over this whole process. on young people in voting, a question from twitter. young voters love the outsider sanders but hate the outsider trump here and one, is that true? two, why is that? true: it is definitely that bernie sanders performed well i'm on young voters, and donald trump really struggled. part of what i think is made bernie sanders appealing is this authenticity, that he says what he thinks, even if he knows it is not popular, he is going to come out and say it. this is also why you some ron paul perform well among young voters. neither ron paul nor bernie sanders exudes celebrity, hip, cool, slick -- they are who they say they are. i think that is appealing to young voters. hand, trump, on the other the things he says he believes are kind of out of step with younger voters. even though they have come to age in an era where the economy has been bad, where they feel they are not as likely to be as well off as their parents, they are still inherently an optimistic generation. they think the future will get better or trump has been kind of pessimistic. he sort of wants to go back to an era or seems to express the intimate that he wants to make america great again, but he is going back to supreme values, traditions, social structures, and these are at odds with where a lot of millennials want to see america go. host: maybe your thoughts on the libertarian party candidate. here is a headline -- libertarian johnson beating trump with millennials in colorado. thet: gerry johnson and libertarian party, the idea of younger voters being more fiscally conservative, wanting government to take a step back, , lessughtful about debt prone to getting engaged with a socialed liberalism of get the government out of my business and i do not want government coming down on the from washington. that is potent and where a lot of younger voters tend to fall. what we have not seen is an overwhelming surge of support for the libertarian party itself . part of it is an aversion to labels. a lot of the younger voters just want to be independent. they worry about the label libertarian, democrat, or republican, so does that settling mean i have to go along with a whole bucket of policy ideas and may not necessarily agree with? host: we have a lot of millennial voters in this segment. 8-8003. hello, i have two short comments. what happened to all these whiney people who want to vote in the primary, what happened to almost the 300,000, 300 million registered voters that did not vote? the second comment is about the polls, like you are talking about. my county has more than 750,000 people just in my county. poll withu go by a plusng 1000 people with a variance?% if you could answer those questions and maybe have a suggestion on what each state could do about that. guest: i will start with your second question, which is, how can you take a country of 300 plus million voters and call 1000 of them and make it work? part of the way it works is it is the incredible power of simple random sampling, that you can take a pool of people that is enormous, and if you are polling h room random sample of those people over and over again, if you keep getting samples from that bigger population, the way margin of error is reported, it means 95 times out of 100, you're getting pretty close to reality here it if i know that 50% of americans, if i could read the minds of every single person living in the country and new 50% of them thought blue was their favorite color. if i ask pockets of what thousand people here, 1000 people there, on average, i am going to find that about half of the people in each of those pockets by paul has about 50% saying blue is their favorite color. it doesn't sound incredible, like practically magic. a simple random sampling done well is very powerful. the challenge the pollsters has really see your first question, which was, what do you do about the fact that so many people in that american electorate do not participate? that makes a pollster's job the hardest. it is making a judgment call on who is and who is not likely to vote. in an election where so few people are dissipate, you really have to make thoughtful calls about who you talk to that is not really likely to go vote and who you talk to that is likely to go vote. in an election were turnout is much higher, it is a little easier for pollsters to do jobs. because most the people they are talking to are likely to be voters. recall that when congressman eric counter -- eric cantor, he was running for reelection and lost in a primary very surprisingly weird this was about two years ago and part of the reason why the polls missed it was because the turnout in that election was so low, it was hard for a pollster to gauge who was and was not likely to vote. the simple random sampling the most difficult to execute well. 's pollster, isor that one still polling? read: yes, i believe i that he is a polling adviser to donald trump now, so still involved in the game. host: a question from twitter -- is there a self-fulfilling aspect to polling? do people behave in ways they perceive as standard according to polls? they might be hinting at the bradley effect, the theory that voters are less likely to tell a human pollster that they're willing to vote for a candidate that more willing to do it in a survey or online? resultsirst, do poll influence of people then respond to the polls? do they tell it pollster with a think in reaction to what they think is supposed to be socially acceptable? that happens in small numbers. right now, the idea in the presidential election is that there is a large undercover trump vote, that there are huge numbers of people unwilling to say they support donald trump. host: do you believe that? guest: i do not believe it is enough to swing the election or do could have 1% or 2% that are uncomfortable confessing their true beliefs. is to the point that on election day, how do the polls influence things? if the polls show a racist very clintond, hillary winning by eight and nine points, that could affect the turnout on clinton supporters who think that they don't have to vote. it could influence trump up voters because they think, well, i don't need to vote because it is already over anyway. so it can influence whether people decide to vote at all. this is part of that big ethical challenge and the burden posters have to do things right. there are real consequences to the data you produce. host: real clear politics has an average of all the polls out there currently in a donald trump versus hillary clinton matchup with hillary clinton ahead six points. you have seen some of the polls they used to, but that average. our next call is from illinois, line for republicans. caller: good morning. polls do more of a disservice of than a service overall, because polling almost is like -- i am an old marketing guy, retired now, but marketers have fit doing it for years to influence people, and polls, unfortunately, do the same thing. there was an old marketing test that you would give to a small focus group. say they had a group of six people, and one of the questions on a survey they were taking had three lines that were exactly the same length, measured the same links, but you have five of the six people in on the game, and there were told to pick the answer, the one of the lines that were shorter than the other. persont of 10 times, the not in on the game would go with the group. polls do the same thing in many ways. advertisers have been using that point for years. remember the old, seven out of 10 dentists recommend this to space. nobody would ask what the others recommended. it was just an advertising ploy. unfortunately, polls often do the same disservice. than -- it is different than market research being used to find out -- host: let's let kristen soltis anderson respond. guest: your point about campaigns using polling internally to make marketing decisions, that is a lot of what folks like me do. most of the polls about this election are not ones that will ever be reported in the press, but they are being taken to help a candidate figure out if they are ahead or behind and what markets may need to advertise in more or what have sent voters they need to be performing better with. what a lot off political pollsters actually dupe it most of the public polling is from media organizations. cbs-new york times has a polling partnership. nbc-washington journal. so much of the polling that is public is coming either from media organizations or from an academic institution, quinnipiac university being a major one that has produced a lot of data this election. so the campaigns themselves are not necessarily using polls to tell the world, tell voters they should behave in a certain way. every so often, there will be allegations of some the called a willpoll, where a campaign use something that sounds like a survey, but it is actually intended to influence. that is condemned by organizations like the american association of public opinion research. it makes it harder for those of us doing legitimate research and want to undersell voters are thinking, it makes it harder for us to do our job because it raises that distressed. host: what are some of the groups you have done research for? guest: the college republican national committee may be the most prominent one we have done research for and released it publicly. the goal was to help them figure how to talk to younger voters when we know that the republican party is not very popular on college campuses these days. are there issues around national debt, national security? there are things our party stands for. reasons why we should be talking to our peers more. strategists older from the party with this information to try to get them on the same page and on the right track. there is a group i have done research for, and in large part, it is and at helping those campaigns market themselves more effectively. host: a call on our line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the reality is that most oters are disgusted with what we face. the less of the two evils. we have the ballot and added the above on the ballot, getting more people to come in and be part of the voting population, people just do not feel that anything is going to change no matter which one of these people is elected. i wish you a very pleasant good morning. guest: thank you very much. it is a wonderful question that really sort of what pollsters cleanly are asking all the time. how do we handle when somebody taking one of our surveys does not like any of the options? what is the best way to do it. in some cases, people will be asked, would you vote for hillary clinton, donald trump, gary johnson, jill stein, or none of the above? we offer that as an explicit option. that happens most in polls connected online, rather than me asking someone over the phone. if you're looking at a computer screen, there is usually that check walks or you can say i am unsure or none of the above. so there is a difference between online and phone surveys when it comes to how we engage that none of the above approach. when it comes to going to the ballot box, this is another challenge for pollsters, which is the phenomenon of under voting. it is entirely legal impossible to walk into a polling place and say, i am not going to check in the box for president. i will vote for congress, senate, governor, but i'm going to leave president blank. voters can do that, and they do not always know they can. that can make things difficult for pollsters, this under voting phenomenon in certain races were a lot of people simply decide that i will not pay attention to this race, and i am only here to pay attention to this other race. host: is there more of that in this election in previous elections? guest: i am not sure. i encounter yoder just younger -- is who are not encounter younger voters who feel like, why bother voting? i encourage them to figure out who they like at a presidential level. if you ultimately decide you cannot vote for any of them, still go out to vote and vote for the other folks on the ballot, congress, senate, ballot initiatives. part of the reason why that is so important -- host: even though it makes your job a little bit harder? guest: yes, and especially for younger voters. that a voter record is public. a lot of times, campaigns, particularly republican topaigns, they will come someone like me and say that i don't care about younger voters because they do not vote. so then it allows them to focus on older voters, which leads to younger voters saying that they cannot talk about my issue. it is a vicious cycle. so i said to break the cycle and vote, even if you are not comfortable voting for everything on the ballot. you can hand a ballot in with anything checks on it at all, and it shows that you participated in you count. host: good time to go back to that line for millennials. kim is in falls church, virginia, independent. there. hi good morning. i am a first-time caller. i am a millennial voter. i am 29. i have always voted, but i know my generation has not always followed suit. a lot of us do not have cable. so we get most of our news about candidates from the internet, from reddit. and that can affect our views. donald trump is a caricature. hillary clinton is her own tour catcher -- her own caricature. that is what we see, rather than the policies. guest: you are right as so many people get their news to the internet, particularly through social media. create a skewed view of the world, for better or worse. there is a concept called the filter double that basically says, nowadays, something like whatook can figure out types of stories you like to read and will feed you more of that. more people on your facebook feed posts stories from the same site, and it will push that to the forefront. so people can feel like they're are only getting news from one side or the other. of feelult, they kind very satisfied that they're completely correct on everything and the other side is completely wrong. to a bitt of leading are onlywhere people really getting news from friends, people in their own orbit with him they probably already agree, or from news sources those people read. host: kim, do you think it is happening with you and your friends? caller: absolutely. reddit does not change its mind about anything. news.where we get our differingoften hear opinions on places like social media. we get more of the same. guest: reddit is explicit about what is getting voted up and voted down. it is the folks reading a certain sub-reddit that are all of one political persuasion, and it is sort of a self-reinforcing cycle. if a news story comes up that debunks a major myth, that might not get as much attention. on the one hand, social media is a credible because it is allowing people to share their views much more easily and allowing us to have our friends give that good housekeeping seal of approval on the news article in an era when so many people distrust the media. but it could also lead us to sort of live inside of an echo chamber, and that sort of worries me. host: kim, hope you enjoyed ap or call back again. richard is in new york, new york, line for democrats. good morning. caller: i have a couple of somewhat technical questions. , givene quinnipiac polls a short time frames, you mentioned that it is generally thererandom sampling, but is difficulty reaching a lot of different demographic groups. supplemented or are issues handled through the data? host: you are breaking up a little bit. guest: i think i got incorrectly, like 80% of it. this is a challenge pollsters face. if you do a survey where you call 1000 people in a single night, you are not able to get those harder to reach folks, folks that are out of town or at dinner at that moment or do not happened to be home. you'ret to make sure calling back the initial first 1000 people you wanted to call until you firmly determine you cannot talk to them. otherwise, you wind up with a biased sample, just the people that happened to be available that night. and then the other example is view our in the field too long. if you're in the field for too long, then are you capturing data that is outdated? if you are doing a survey immediately after the democratic convention, those calls you did immediately following the convention would necessarily be different than the calls a week or two but later. so if the field time is too long, you are including interviews that are stale or outdated. if you're in the field too short, you are likely to miss some potential voters who are just harder to reach. the best call is to be in the field 2, 3, 4 nights, and make sure you have a proper callback procedure. sorry to get so technical. minutes have about two left. raymond from new york, line for democrats. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to ask, what would be, by her opinion, the best poll to rely on? guest: oh, that is a good question. my answer may be unsatisfying. i tell people to look at the average of the polls. a pollster, even the best pollsters, can come out with a number that is an outlier and does not really reflect what is happening. a real clearhrough politics average or huffington pollster average, one of these sites that takes the data and puts it all together. you will see things that wobble a lot less,. less extreme iowa's till people, keep calm and average your post -- i always tell people, keep calm and average your polls. ,ost: kristen soltis anderson thanks so much for your time. next, we will be joined by erika poethig of the urban institute. we will talk about the latest threats to affordable housing in cities and localities throughout the country. later, we will talk about federal disaster preparedness and assistance programs. our guest is chris currie on disaster preparedness and assistance. that is coming up later today on the "washington journal." >> american history tv air c-spans on3 every -- ayres on c-span3 every weekend. this month on american history tv, it is prime time to introduce you to programs you could see every week and on lectures inluding history, visits to college classrooms across the country, and hear lectures by top history professors. an american artifacts looks at the treasures at u.s. historic sites, museums, and archives. reel america, 20th century through archival films. to shaping the civil war and reconstruction and the presidency focuses on u.s. presidents and first ladies. andthis month in prime time every week and on american history tv on c-span3. throughout this month, we're shopping -- showing book tv programs during the week in prime time. takes our c-span2 public affairs programming and focuses on the latest nonfiction book releases through interviews and book discussions. signature programs are in-depth, a look at one author's work with questions from viewers. it airs the first sunday every month at noon eastern. afterwords is a one-on-one , andview with an author there is often an opposing viewpoint. it is every saturday at 10:00 p.m. eastern. and we will visit book festivals, author events, and book parties where authors talk about the latest works. book tv is the only national network devoted exclusively to nonfiction books. book tv on c-span2, television for serious readers. "washington journal" continues. is directorpoethig of urban policy initiative at the urban institute and joins us to discuss desk to discuss affordable housing availability. when we say affordable housing, what do we mean? guest: affordability is a relative term, relative to how much income you have to pay for housing. of yourpolicy, 30% income for rent mortgage is consider the afford ability standard. as you have higher income, you have more ability to pay for housing. lower income, less ability to pay for housing. reducing an operating housing have certain costs associated with it are the less income you have, the less ability you have to cover the costs of what it takes to build and operate housing. we used the term affordable housing, and what we're typically if her in two is that housing that was produced or operated with some kind of subsidy, whether it is federal, state, or local. host: when we talk about section eight public housing, where does that fall? section eight is a form of government assistance, and it comes in two kinds of forms. one is a voucher given to a particular person or household and allows them to find housing in the private marketplace. they use that voucher to cover the difference between what they can afford and what the apartment actually costs. eight section of housing is a contract with a private owner that has agreed to set aside a certain number of units and make those affordable to people of a certain income. there other federal and state programs? guest: yes, the public housing is another form, and it is publicly owned in federally assisted housing. that is also another form of affordable rental housing. and then states and localities also provide and subsidize housing. the largest program today is something called housing financed with the low income housing tax credit. it is actually not a program that the u.s. department of housing and urban development funds. it is a tax credit provided to the u.s. treasury. so it is a credit that enables developers to get access to private capital and build affordable housing. and it is the most robust program today for affordable housing in the united states. host: what are the qualifications for that program? guest: it is income-based. what happens is a developer helpves the tax credit to them develop and build affordable housing, and then rentsent those units at that people earning 60% of the area posing median income can afford. let's take for instance denver. denver is not a hot market, and it is not a weak market. it is relatively healthy. in the region of denver, the median income is about $72,000 a year for a household of three people. area medianat income is about $42,000. so a rent that a family earning about $42,000 can afford is about $1000 a month. a developer makes their units affordable to that group of people, and that is considered one form of affordable housing. the federal rental assistance programs i described earlier typically serve a lower income group, those earning more like 30% of area median income. in denver, that is a household of three, maybe a retail cashier, a single-parent, earning about $21,000 a year. programs arelity used to sort of benchmark against different income groups. host: erika poethig is with the urban institute, the urban policy initiatives director. doing phone lines a little differently in this segment as we discussed the four double housing or we want to hear your questions. the phone numbers paired if you received housing assistance, 202*-748-800. 8001.enters202-748- 48-8002.202-7 all others, 8003. we will put those numbers on the screen. these traits are based on the where affordable housing has gotten harder to find, about the same, and easier to find. low toe --, localities on the country where affordable housing is harder to find. in includes a lot of the country. what are the biggest threats of why affordable housing has become harder to find? guest: a big national problem that we have, especially after the housing crisis in 2008, is that we have not been producing enough housing overall. this is particularly the case with rental housing. last year, for instance, in 2015, we added one million new households in the united states, but we only added 620,000 units overall stock of housing, which means we have a gap of about 430,000 units that were not produced. what does that mean? on the supply and demand curve, we have supplied not keeping up with demand. looking ahead to the future, one of the problems we face is we are going to be adding more renters than homeowners. this creates pressure on rents. some places in the country feel this pressure greater than others, maybe because they have not supplied enough or that they and haveer economies not caught up with the amount of housing they need to provide in order to take account of the new people coming to work, like the silicon valley. i think that is one of the cases people point to the most places on the coast are feeling these pressures the greatest. that is one part of the challenge we face with feeling pressure in some places of the country. the other challenge is that we have an increasing number of households at the lower part of the income spectrum. that group is growing, and that group has grown over the last 15 years. 38% growth in the number of what we call extremely low income households. so that means that those folks have fewer resources to pay for affordable housing, and the number of units we have in this kind of affordable housing category are not keeping pace with the demands. and that is creating some of the pressures in different parts of the country. host: we will walk our viewers for those charts again. 2013 where affordable housing has gotten harder to find is the first chart. in the middle, parts of the country were affordable housing andbout the same from 2000 2013. on the far right, affordable housing has become easier to find over this 13 years. those charts based on urban institute data. first caller, susan and massachusetts, line four renters. for havingnk you this topic. i am in the epicenter of unaffordable real estate here in boston metro. i am going to try to be clear, i think there are a lot of external forces that contribute to the situation, and the perpetual low interest rate, failure of the fed to raise the interest rates, is just a result of that. the first thing is that wages have stagnated since the 1970's. so real estate is the only way people really accumulate wealth now. and then you have people that have amazing wealth that they garnered through offshore cap shelters and you have foreign buyers, the chinese or cash buyers in boston and can pay any amount of money because they are not taxed, a way of keeping them at bay. so you have billionaires and boston who drive up the market. then you have people who bought realistic, baby boomers, that are able to sell it. they bought it for $40,000 and can sell the property for $2 million. you have these factors and then an aging transportation system that does not go far out of the metro areas. we have tons of wonderful communities and sort of suffering communities that need an infusion of young residents and middle-class people. and people would love to go there. but there is way to get to work. i want to speak about the section eight system. my late mother was fortunate enough late in her life -- my father was sick and did not work much, and it was back in the late 1980's that she was able to get a section eight voucher. she got a small one bedroom in a then struggling, transitional, crime-ridden neighborhood, but now it is one of the most desirable areas in the country. i do not know what she would have done without that affordable unit. it was such a blessing on so many levels. a revealma papers' dat that the reason markets in london, boston, new york, san francisco, now houston, and now even cleveland is getting hot again, it is because people, when they have so much wealth, it is not really taxed by their municipalities and governments. they can buy anything they want at any price. it seems like these external factors are really a part of this, as well. host: a lot of point spirit we want to let erika poethig respond to it we appreciate you sharing your story. susan, you are right, boston is one of the hottest markets in the country and one of the places people are feeling effects of this the most when it comes to finding affordable rental housing or a house they can afford to buy. areachusetts and boston often times considered to be models for the rest of the country about what you can do at a state and local level to help people afford, maintain affordable rental housing. faces theseand, it pressures. on the other hand, it has a very robust private sector and public sector that has been working on these challenges for a long time. so i appreciate the fact that you raised the issue that your mother received a section eight voucher, which helped to stabilize her situation. of the people of federal rental assistance our seniors -- are seniors. what we anticipate going forward is an increasing share of federal rental assistance or affordable housing will be utilized by seniors because of the growth in the baby-boom generation. and these are people on a fixed income. lynn on twitter wants to for, what is the wait time housing assistance? guest: often times a year. depending on your jurisdiction, you can be waiting for years to receive a voucher or to get into public housing or to get into an independent development. it really depends upon the demand in your particular area. the publicthings housing authorities do is they create lotteries in order to make sure that those are fair systems. so they open up those waters on a periodic basis to make sure they are receiving new applicants. if it is the case that only one in four eligible households receive any form of federal rental assistance, you will just have more demand than you have supply. host: a call from texas, a homeowner. caller: good morning first of all, i want to say how much i love c-span, and the moderators do such a terrific job. i really enjoy it. host: appreciate that. what is your question? caller: well, what i see anecdotally in longview is many situations where qualified people live in the affordable housing apartments, what have then, say, a boy from moves in that is making a lot of money as a welder or some trade and lives there, and it is just not fair to the people that are waiting in line for that situation to be going on. toon't see enough controls monitor that. host: thanks for bringing that up. guest: thanks for the question per these are rules that the local management company does, to they work very hard ensure that for affordable rental housing. there are periodic checks and other mechanisms to check on that. host: do they come into the home? guest: they do annual recertifications. and certainly, if they get a report of another person in the household, they do investigate that. and if there are broader concerns about that, i would refer him to the hud ig or other kinds of concerns along this particular lines. judy receives housing assistance in idaho falls, idaho. good morning. disability. i am on which means month, i cannot afford much housing. i had been on the waiting list for two and half years now, and i have been homeless most of that time. my question is, as you said, there is not enough affordable housing. what do they expect us to do while we wait years to get a roof over our heads? guest: judy, my heart goes out to you. i think what you pointed out is precisely the challenge we face. you received just over $700 a month in income, and if you imagine one-third of that is $250 or so a month. there is no apartment in the private market available for that amount of money, which is recently why the affordable housing programs help with that particular gap. imb very sorry to hear that you have been homeless -- i am very sorry to hear you have been homeless. what we know from rigorous research is that these programs reduce homelessness by three-quarters. it is a solution for that problem for precisely the reasons judy raises. host: what is the federal budget for these programs on a yearly basis? guest: federal rental assistance is about 84% of hud's budget, which is about $40 billion a year. hud'sis a majority of budget, what it principally manages on a daily basis, and that is from a variety of different programs, including those focused on homelessness and essentially kind of blending housing with services, as well as the public housing programs, the voucher program, and the section eight rental program. that is the majority of hud's budget. ust: erika poethig is with for the next 25 minutes or so. special lines for this segment -- host: if you want to look at some of the numbers are some of the charts we have been talking about, it is urban.org. janet in washington, a renter. good morning. husband died in 1970. is -- he was on section eight in washington while i lived in ohio. had noed me when i surgery, and he lost his section eight. i moved to washington. he tried to get back on section eight. there is a very long waiting list, and he has not been able to get on it. he is homeless. he cannot work. i cannot let him stay here ,ecause i am renting a place and i am not allowed to have anybody else live here. him.e nobody to help with his health problem, he should not be homeless. i do not know what to do. he has been trying to get on section eight, but he is just not able. janet, i know, again, i am very sorry to hear about your son's situation and your own situation. unfortunately, section eight is a very scarce resource. no longern folks utilize the subsidy income off of it, he goes very quickly that can to the set of resources that then make it available to the next person on the waiting list. often times, hugh stay on the waiting list for years waiting for public assistance -- you stay on the waiting list for years. i am sorry to hear that. there are some states, and washington is definitely one, trying to add additional safety sources to help fill the gap. the congress has not allocated any new resources for affordable renting housing in more than 15 years. so the pressures are that we have a growing afford ability challenge, and our resources for affordable rental assistance are essentially capped. the state or local solutions can only go so far, so that is the challenge we face in meeting the needs of low-income americans. call from new york, homeowner. good morning. caller: thank you for the opportunity. i am a homeowner very shortly, only because the taxes are now four times when my original mortgage was when i purchased my home way back in the day. i think what needs to be honed in on is the pervasive corruption in these programs, specifically hud. politicians always want to bring affordable housing, yet they seem to game the system to the point that we are being taxed out of our homes. beenin point, hud has compromised by political elites that supposedly oversee these programs, and they always game the system with hud. president bush had actually pardoned -- i live on the eastern end of suffolk county on long island, and there was a developer who was very cozy with the president of the united states. time and time again, he would get people into homes using a signature with a mortgage he knew they could never pay. he would even them and resell to another family, apply for more moneys, evict those people to her could ever afford to pay for it. he lied to them about taxes. eliot spitzer prosecuted this gentleman, on the president came in and pardoned the gentleman. when he was scrutinized by the media, he revoked the pardon for the first time in presidential history. that was because it specifically exhibit fight how the system was being gamed. there seems to be a discrimination that exists, especially on the eastern end of long island. that is why we do not have mass transit out here. they do not want lesser people than themselves crowding them in the suburbs and the communities of the east end. host: we want to get erika poethig to jump in. waste, fraud, and abuse, specifically at hud. guest: it has been a problem in hud's history. there have in very public instances where there has been fraudulent behavior and essentially execution of the policy. that meant that congress has held hud more accountable than some other agencies in the federal government through some the called the hud reform act. so the standards for hud now are much higher than they are for other federal agencies because of this history. i do not know about them more recent situations he is referring to. but if you think someone fraudulent is going on, i would refer him to the hud ig to investigate. in my own experience, hud is held to a much higher standard, in part because of this history that went on in the 1980's and maybe a little bit into the 1990's. certainly the case more recently, that hud is tackling those particular issues much more forcefully as a result. ofhink the more recent issue raised, which is certainly the case, which is what we call nimby-ism -- not in my backyard, and white becomes very difficult it becomeshy difficult is, on the one hand, it is costly to build housing in the u.s. for a variety of reasons. acquiring lands, construction costs, net operating it. that becomes more costly when you have local regulation controls that add onto those costs. and in many communities, those are focused on keeping certain kinds of housing out. and that history of keeping what we call exclusionary loaning policies in place makes it more difficult and expensive to build affordable housing and has led to a pattern of, honestly, segregation and the united states that is the focus than of another aspect of hud's mission, which is a fair housing. host: darlene receives housing assistance in clark county, nevada. caller: good morning. so nice to speak to you this morning. yes, i live in conventional public housing in las vegas, nevada. i happen to know the staff of the housing authority very well, from the deputy director down. they have worked so hard in the last six years in las vegas to rehab all the properties that they had. clark county housing authority acquired city of las vegas housing authority, and then they city oft requiring north las vegas and did integrate them. so some of the properties were in terrible disrepair. they had horrible news reports. so when the housing authority accepted these other groups, they made them get busy and really improve the properties. so i have very fortunate. i am terminally ill, and i live in a very am a very beautiful neighborhood, and i feel very blessed to have such a program exist. the only thing that scared me was when a strange lady showed up to audit me. and i said, excuse me? she broke out a laptop and said that she wanted to make sure management's records are the same as yours. so i got out a ledger book, and she said, you have got a ledger book? i said, ma'am, tell me what month, what year you would like to know about. she looked through my ledger book and she said, wow, you are detailed oriented. i said, i cannot afford to have things turned up. she was wonderful, but she explained to me that from housing authority through hud, that $40 million was missing. she explained that when the republicans were in office, they put type two homes of housing assistance. democrats removed those controls. so 40 million taxpayer dollars went missing. i started to cry and said, ma'am, i hope you find your $40 million. so what my housing authority has been doing is they have been partnering with local businesses so that they still have the property. however, the businesses share in the costs. it makes it a lot easier on them. host: darlene raises a couple of issues. one is the condition of public housing and the need to prove the condition. we have a very old public housing stock built in the 1940's that needs to be recapitalized. in thes that backlog resources available and needs of the public housing stock. congress has not appropriated a sufficient amount of funds to cover those particular costs. partneringy, it is with the private market to generate resources to improve the quality. darlene was pointing that out. in order to to how gain greater efficiency and improve the ability of people to live within the region, las vegas is one of the early adopters of the efforts to consolidate and regionalized housing provisions. so she noted that one of the things that has happened is that has led to the improvement of the conditions in some of those authorities that may have been a smaller place. this last issue about -- i don't know what you are referring to in relation to the audit -- hud does have a check on illegal payments and it has performed very well against other agencies. there is a very low percentage. it is around 1%. where they find illegal know what then't particular issue is that she is referring to but other agencies -- i guess its own threshold -- hud has been trying to nail down those illegal payments and take care of them. rome, georgia.n good morning. homeowner. was about question able-bodied people that are on public housing. personally that has been on public housing for it aars and she makes point not to work and she says plenty of times she just wants to be a stay-at-home mom. i don't understand how people like that could take advantage -- there are other people who need it more. that is pretty much it. don't know the circumstances of this particular issue but let me give you a bit of a sense of who lives in public housing or who receives federal rental assistance. about 50% of the recipients are either seniors or people on disability. are families with children. some additional small percentages are the disabled adults with children in the household or seniors taking care of grandchildren. housing is for people who are on very fixed incomes. 8% of rental assistance recipients are on tennis. .- tanis 12% are households with children under the age of six or kicker -- or caring for a senior citizen. that does represent one of the groups of people that lives in federal rental assistance who may not be working because they are caring for young children. if you come back to this example in denver, where you have a household with a single parent they arechildren, so working, they are only earning $21,000 a year which means they can only afford $540 a month in rent. costs, youchildcare can see that things can quickly add up. if you don't receive assistance you may be paying even more than what you can afford. the united states there are 11.2 million households that pay more than 50% of their income for housing and those folks are called severely rent burden. when you pay more than 50%, you are crowding out all of the other kinds of resources that may be important for working, like childcare. host: another viewer who received housing assistance. larry in texas. caller: good morning. i ama vietnam veteran and in the program since 2010. for $700. is approved the house i live in is worth $700 a month. my portion of the rent was $50 a month. out of the 700. owner of the property requested a $100 rent increase and it if -- it was approved. , so my rentealtor went from 15 month -- 50 a month to 175. i had no income for a disability that i had suffered in vietnam. may of this year, i went to recertify the voucher and i had a new worker looked at my file and said "why are you paying $175 a month?" thresholdthis is your that you are supposed to pay and you are paying way over. do anything until you hear from me again and i haven't heard from the housing authority since. what would you recommend that i do? host: as you are answering, can you explain what the program is. guest: those vouchers are a special allocation of the section eight rental voucher that i explained earlier that a householder gets to afford housing. the m&a from a commitment and a innt goal between veterans the obama administration to end homelessness in veteran. they have added new rental vouchers for very specific population. that voucher has been allocated specifically towards a goal of ending veteran homelessness. in this particular case, one thing i wanted to point out is what he is raising is the fact that there are 25% of recipients of federal rental assistance that are paying more than 30% of their income for rent. we don't know exactly why that may be the case. that may be to afford more expensive housing in a higher opportunity community or situations like larry just described. we try to bring that affordability threshold to 30%, it is the case that there are people that pay more of their income for housing who even received federal rental assistance. of his particular situation, i would consider putting something in writing and potentially either writing the housing authority or writing the u.s. department of housing and urban development in order to see if his situation can get additional attention. host: is there somebody that does that sort of casework? public andoffice of indian housing is the office in the hud that oversees the voucher program. host: gloria is in bridgewater new jersey, a homeowner. good morning. i have a suggestion. that i have is such been in my home for 40 years. we have pay taxes here for 50 years. of any the highest taxes homeowners in the country because we live in new jersey and i am now 80 years old and i am paying over $15,000 a year in taxes. i feel that when you have been in a community a certain number of years, you have raised your family and when you reach retirement age the taxes should be taken off. i am in a situation where i am being forced to sell my home very shortly. afford to- i cannot live in a house that i built and lived in a community. parents arees is leaving the state because of the taxes. it forces elderly people to break up communities. i will be leaving out of the state. if we did that it would stabilize the community. anybody that moves into a house -- in my case i have five children and anybody that moves in my house will be educating a large family again. if you allowed people to take that part off of their taxes, it would stabilize the community. you wouldn't be educating time and time again, a community of children. i have no objection to paying taxes but i feel that if we did be moremilies could together. host: thanks for talking about your situation. guest: we anticipate there is going to be more and more older adults facing this particular situation in the future as baby boomers age. perhaps the home that they are living in is no longer affordable once they are on a fixed income. property taxes are a reflection of the kinds of services at the people living in that community want. they are a mechanism to raise the resources to pay for public services. new jersey has a reputation of excellent public services and public schools. the mechanism to pay for those is property tax. host: are there states that give property tax breaks? i don't know about the specifics in new jersey but many states or localities provide tax abatements or tax breaks to older adults for precisely the reason that gloria was discussing. you can only take those particulars so far. and then you still provide some of the public services necessary host:. time for a few more calls. roy is in north carolina, a renter. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: my wife and i are in our 80's and can't work and we have been living in a small apart in one of my sons commercial he is losing bet to foreclosure in november and we are going to have a problem about renting. how does one apply for rental assistance? be it federal or state? certainly. caller: i live in north carolina. guest: i don't know if the place you live has a housing authority associated with it but if it does, go to the housing authority and apply for federal rental assistance where you can apply for assistance and there are particular building set aside for seniors. the other thing to do is, if you have access to a computer, is to look for properties that receive something called section 202, which are developed and managed i profits for seniors and older adults that maybe in your community and to go to that property specifically and apply for an apartment in that property. those have restricted rents for older adults and may have availabilities for you. i don't know if there is affordable housing in your particular community but certainly in north carolina there is senior housing and other kinds of assistance. time for one more call, anthony is in new york. that fellow who called about the rescinding. developer, dishonest they had pardoned him and they found out that he had given $28,000 to the republican party. history, they in rescinded apart from the president. it.t: i don't remember i am sorry, i can't comment. host: did you have time for a quick question? they are known for being dishonest. host: this segment in the washington journal, erica is with the urban policy initiative . check them out at urban.org. thank you so much for your time. up next is our weekly your money segment on the washington journal. federal disaster preparedness and assistance programs. chris curry is with the government accountability office. >> tonight on the communicators, author malcolm j talks about how narrow science researchers and dod's advanced project agency are working to develop ways to have wounded soldiers move prostatic limbs and manipulate computers. >> this is about trying to make whole the soldiers that are coming back from iraq and who, for much of the century because of advances in were suffering blows that previously would have been fatal but are now just coming back with amputations. these are young men and women who are in their 20's and 30's who have their entire life before them. and studying the brain really a missionary zeal to say that this is a program that will make these people whole because we only to them as servants of the country. what's the communicators. for campaign 2016, c-span continues on the road to the white house. >> we need serious leadership theory this is not a reality tv show. >> we will make america great again. live coverage of the presidential and vice presidential debate. 26 is theptember first presidential debate live from hofstra university in new .ork governor mike pence and senator virginia andate in on october 9, washington university hosts the second debate leading up to the third and final debate between hillary went in and donald trump at the university of nevada las vegas. live coverage of the debates on c-span. listen live on the free c-span app. out -- radio host: each week in this segment, we take a look at how your money's is at work in a different federal program. is with us this week. we are going to be talking about assistance preparedness and federal dollars at work. from 2004 to 2013, 90 $5 billion were spent on disaster assistance. what assistance programs are included in that? guest: that includes the main fema programs that most people think of. the big ones are assistance to individuals, the payments going out to folks like in the louisiana flooding right now to help them with everyday expenses and necessities and temporary housing assistance. it also includes longer-term localry items to rebuild infrastructure like schools, subway systems, public infrastructure and things like that. the $95 billion is not the total amount the federal government the actual number is much more difficult to quantify. for example, the department of housing and urban development issued over $30 billion over that time. when that number is thrown out there that doesn't mean fema programs but there is a lot more spending as well. host: so that doesn't include the flood insurance program? guest: that is a longer-term insurance program. how is that money appropriated, how does fema decide how much money they need each year? guest: it is a complex process, but in short they do it waste on the storms that have happened over the prior 10 years. they look how much has been spent and they estimate a good number they think will recover. they need to pay for prior-year storms as well so they have to factor that in. over the last couple years, that number has hovered above $7 billion. host: do they usually spend all of it? guest: in storms like hurricane sandy they blow through it very quickly and sometimes ask for supplemental funding. that happened in katrina and hurricane sandy as well. carryoverthere was a and they actually brought some of that which they are likely going to need because of the flooding. report ton issue to congress every month telling them how much we have in the bank. it was a little over $3 billion at the end of july. that has to last until the end of september and then they will get more money in 2017. currie is director of the office at gao for disaster assistance. taking your calls through the end of today's program, lines are set up regionally. in the eastern or central united states, it is 8000, mountain pacific, 8001. let's talk about assistance and how people apply for that program, coming off the flooding last week in louisiana. what can that be used to rebuild? for everyday citizens, fema has a program for individual assistance, which goes out very quickly. an individual affected by a disaster or a flood, if their a federaleen declared disaster, they can go to fema's website and apply. that program is capped at $33,000 and most people don't get that full amount. it can be used for everything rentalaying in hotels, properties, and also childcare and other types of assistance to get them back on their feet. that 95 billion, does that include businesses? guest: the 95 billion is just the direct assistance given to citizens and state and local governments. other programs that provide disaster loans to businesses, up to $2 million. also, the small business administration provides disaster loans. homeowners, if they didn't have flood insurance policies. to hear your stories of dealing with gaster -- disaster assistance. the phone line is split regionally. in the eastern or central, and the mountain and pacific. we will get to the calls in just seconds. gao is charged with finding the best practices in the federal government. are there ways the most program can be improved? absolutely. since hurricane katrina -- all of us remember the headlines and the stories and the perception of the federal response -- fema has made a number of improvements, particularly in the immediate response. we are seeing that in louisiana. fema has been praised for its response. it has a very well coordinated program. starts folks out to providing assistance and it does a better job of coordinating with federal partners. the area where we have the biggest challenge is on the long-term recovery. most folks tend to forget about the long-term recovery after a storm was happening. andr hurricane sandy katrina, we had a building in louisiana for a long time to come. those programs are often very long, prompt -- complicated, arduous, and it is difficult to navigate the federal rules. how big is the disaster need to be in order to be declared a national disaster? guest: that actually depends. it depends on the state you live in. fema has an equation it uses to calculate whether something reaches the level of being a presidential declaration. it is based on the population of the state. a state with a smaller population like mississippi, it would be much easier for a disaster to be declared versus a state like california or new york where the threshold would have to be higher. fema, on their websites, fema.gov with links to apply to disaster assistance and a q&a on louisiana with a focus on the flooding. taking calls from your parts of the country, taking questions about disaster assistance and preparedness. randy is in iowa. i want to thank you for raising these issues. i tried to get in earlier, but my comment is, pro-government and pro-fema, and i think that the funding of these programs -- these are necessary, essential in a free trading system where they are exporting so many jobs in so many people are out of work and so many people are .iving hand to mouth especially in a state like louisiana where bobby jindal took tax cuts for a billion dollars and gave it back to the wealthy and cut social programs and education. we need to step up as a country. that funds for these programs and the will for these federal programs is the windowing and the people that give them the most don't understand that they keep people antigovernment who promised tax cuts and promised this and promised that that really don't deliver on the growth of housing and the growth of infrastructure that is needed. my thanks for you that you are building a long time in new jersey and louisiana from the past disasters, not including this one. ,ow much funding is needed roughly, to speed this process up? host: as you answer, can you talk about the fema budget over time? is he right that it keeps getting cut? thet: he was budget over last decade has gone way up and a lot of that is because of the additional disaster relief funding they have been given especially for katrina and sandy. the point was made that a number of disasters is actually increasing and the costs are getting higher and folks can debate why that is, more development near coastline or near water, increasing severity of the storms, but it absolutely has gone up in recent years. host: we will go to mike in white plains, new york. you are on the washington journal. [indiscernible] disasternal debt is a and -- host: you are a little garbled there. we will get your phone my together. i want to talk about disaster preparedness, the other side of this equation, looking ahead to future storms. $40 billion is the number from homeland security for preparedness grant programs, between 2002 and 2015. walk us through what that includes. guest: fema gives out all of the preparedness grant funding and that comes from homeland security. that figure is correct. that includes grant programs that go to state and local governments to increase their capacity to prepare for anything. these programs were started and initially, there was a lot of funding provided to local governments for antiterrorism response. closed-circuit television, things like that. increasingly, that is being used for all hazards preparedness. state and local governments have a menu of items they can choose from that is approved by fema and they can purchase with that grant funding. examples would be generators to prepare if they lose power. radio systems to help their law enforcement officers communicate and things like that. does climate change get factored into the preparedness grants and the application process? guest: not exactly. there has not been any specific rule implemented that states or localities have to incorporate climate change to get this money but the federal government has issued guidelines and directives aimed to encourage other federal departments to incorporate climate change intuit's programs but state and local governments are not wired to. regionally, if you want to talk about your experience with fema's disaster assistance programs. 202-8000. deborah in houston, texas. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am on hospice. i live with an 80-year-old dad and we were victimized by hurricane ike and at that time, my mother was alive and we were used. she had a social security check. but because of hurricane katrina and the economic system failed the same weekend of hurricane ike. there was nothing for the people of texas and we struggled to go out and i had to take out a and nownpaid for home my mother has passed away and now an 81-year-old dad -- the home might be lost. i would like to know what could be done but i have to go out and in 10 years and 8% month. a month -- $375 a host: what programs are available for those in the immediate term in the long-term? guest: sorry to here about your situation but that is a good question. in the immediate term, fema provides the number of direct assistance programs. the point she raises is a valid one and a good one. a lot of these programs are made to help folks get back on their quick dash on their feet quickly and handle issues right after a storm. a number of longer-term programs that help folks rebuild. the flood insurance program is one of those. these don'tlot of necessarily make somebody impacted by disasters like deborah whole in the long-term so they have to revert to loans. even those may not cover everything. it is a fundamental question about disasters and when folks are affected, especially repeatedly. what is the role of the government in providing assistance to make them whole? talk more about the flood insurance program but let's get in shannon first. west virginia. caller: good morning. address, where we send our men and women overseas to be trained to kill and when they come back over here, they are put as cops and we put them on the street and i think that is most of the problem. that is what we have got to address. don't d train them -- de train them. we are focusing on the fema disaster assistance and preparedness programs right now. chris curry is with gao. studies recommendations on how to run those programs. if you have questions, now would be a good time to call. john is in oklahoma. good morning. caller: i wanted to comment on the expense involved in the program that you are talking about. this is to -- is tremendous. we owed $23 trillion and i would like to ask this junior bureaucrat, what are we going to do when we run out of money? as you are talking, can you talk about your resume as well? guest: i have been here almost 15 years but he raises a good question, the question that is discussed a lot -- a lot. i mentioned the $95 billion over a decade, that is a large amount of money but i have also mentioned the number of disasters is increasing and the severity is increasing. areas,ey hit larger clear the coastlines, the cost to recover tends to be much more expensive. there is a debate going on right now about the proper role of the federal government versus the state and local government for private citizens and private insurers about who should be picking up the majority of the tab. that the been a trend federal government is paying more and more for disasters. a story on the front page of today's news star out of louisiana, louisiana will be congress is help when several of louisiana's congressional members voted against superstorm sandy's relief efforts. scope of the flood's in baton rouge and in that area in recent days is only starting to become clear as people rip up the insides of their homes and deposit moldy carpets, soaked drywall and water damaged furniture and heaps of personal belongings onto their front lawns. guest: we know some things about the damage. more than 50,000 homes were destroyed, many businesses. we don't know the long-term damage estimates for both private housing and small businesses. the article is correct to insinuate that it will be a while before we understand what this will cost the government. we don't know now if the government is going to act to cover the flooding. they had to do that in storms like hurricane sandy and katrina, but that has yet to be determined. host: what would you say the likelihood is of that? guest: it is difficult to tell. fema has until the end of september that there are many other programs that can kick in. host: how much do they need to hold back for the last few months? guest: they have planned for that as we get towards hurricane season. august and september are expensive months. requestingso additional funding next year and there is carryover from prior host:.s well is it based on a yearly budget? guest: it is fiscal year. fema is funding every fiscal year but one important thing to note is that is what we call "know your money -- no year money." it can carry over to the next year. part of that is because disaster recovery takes a long time. we are still rebuilding in new orleans after katrina. that gives you a sense of how long these can take after most folks have forgotten. host: 20 minutes left in our show today, or in delaware, good morning. caller: i just tuned in, i don't know if you are taking this now. i asking -- i'm asking about flood insurance. we are 11 miles inland from the ocean, several miles off the indian river bay. we are high ground, not in the but seeing the amount of rain and the way the climate is changing where a person gets 12 or 13 inches in a few hours, we could flood so i called and inquired. on the news, you hear these folks didn't have flood insurance. price for flood insurance and it is unconscionable. if you have a home on the beach, fine but if we are inland, they told me $700 to $900 a month for flood insurance. no wonder there is not more participation. who can afford it? host: was that private insurance that you went through? i am not sure. i asked for federal flood insurance but maybe i made a mistake and did. i thought they would inquire about federal flood insurance programs. fema administers the national flood insurance program but it does that through private insurers that basically serve as their contractors. if you go to their website and look at flood insurance you will get directed to apply and be contacted by somebody from a private company. host: what recommendations does gal have to improve the flood insurance? guest:. been in the red currently $20 billion in debt going back to hurricane katrina and sandy and louisiana flooding is not going to help. cases, know the specific programissue with the is the community has to be enrolled. even if you wanted to buy it you can't even get it. one of the problems is the local community has to enroll and be part of the program before it actually can be provided. but it is all based on risk and on fema's flood maps. the lower the risk, the lower the cost. host: and the flood maps become political footballs as well. put into aou are special hazard flood zone, which is a high risk zone and you work before and you are now required to get flood insurance, you could be paying 700-800 dollars a month. central florida. how many times does fema pay for properties that have been subject to a claim over a number of times. say it might property for the desk flooded six years ago but this year at flood again but i don't pay into fema, will fema pay for that or not? if they do, how many times before they said no more? guest: we call that repetitive loss flooding and it absolutely does happen. there have been cases of many repetitive loss properties. the quick answer is yes. fema is part of the national they insurance program and can rebuild the house or repair it several times over. host: when is enough enough? guest: i don't have that on the tip of my tongue. host: is that something the gao has recommended? guest: we have certainly talked about it in our work, particularly about sustainability in the program. these sorts of properties -- they are not the biggest drain. they are a drain on the system it is one ofam but the problems with program and why does not sustain. the program does not take in enough money to cover its costs. host: it is in clarksburg, west virginia. here.: i was in the flood stream andng a small i had flooding insurance. had. the only one that it came up through their. live with a to checkout for $5,000. and -- theymy house said, do you have flood insurance? and i said yes. they closed the book. the gentleman that just called his right. flood insurance is expensive especially for someone like the income me and my wife have. i waited for five weeks before somebody from flood insurance even came out there. when they did, the guy went around with a pencil and came up with a $6,407 damage to my house. it then -- they would give everybody on that road with me $5,000 checks. i've got no check. flood insurance i ended up with 400-7000 -- fourth -- $4704. because they depreciated 1600 of it off. part, flood insurance is a -- is a farce. they don't tell you about the depreciation or replacement. host: thanks for talking about that. chris, is that right? guest: it is hard to comment without knowing the specifics. initially fema comes out and the folks they send out right away are there for the individual assistance program. they are there to get money to people quickly that need it. sleep, some place to provide food and things like that. more of anance is insurance process. , they arenefits adjusted based on how much homeowners insurance the person may have and what is going to cover and whether the person has flood insurance. because he was likely to get flood insurance, the amount of fema funding initially for individual assistance was decreased. but it is difficult to know based on the individual situation. host: in terms of time you have to wait for that money, the fema money gets into people's hands sooner, correct? guest: the individual assistance money does. people usually get registered. host: if somebody has flood insurance the money would come through that program. what gets them to appoint to -- to a point where that comes in? guest: the individual assistance program, that happens quickly. they get that money quickly because they need it quickly. they need a roof over their heads, a rental property, something like that. the reason fema does that is because they are trying to help folks out as quickly as possible. for the, the adjusters flood insurance programs would come in and do the formal damage assessments and figure out how much. host: let's go to indiana where mike is waiting. caller: my call is in regard to the amount of money that fema spends on any form of disaster relief. is there a cap on administrative costs? let's just say for every million dollars, is there a cap that says fema can only spend $50,000 on administrative relief or on administrative costs versus direct payments or money going directly to people affected? guest: in that scenario we have done a lot of work. i mentioned the $95 billion in funding. about 12 billion of that went on fema's administrative costs. what he means is how much does fema a to actually give the .ssistance to pay its employees host: does that include contractors? guest: a lot of the immediate folks responding are fema employees. emergency management, disaster response. but they do use a lot of contractors. in the louisiana flooding, it employed over a thousand estimators to go out and look at folks homes. most of those are contractors. to get back to his question, the quick answer is there is no cap on the ministry of costs. wet is one of the things have recently found, that fema did not do a good job of managing its administrative costs and tracking those costs and they have continued to rise. the cost of responding has gone up. they have taken a number of actions over the last couple of years to monitor that and try to drive those costs down. however, they also have two need to get folks out as quickly as possible and we saw in hurricane katrina that when that does not happen, the ramifications can be quite negative. it is not cheap to respond to disasters, it is not cheap to respond quickly. host: all of these recommendations, things to report, available at gao.gov. you can see the reports that chris currie has worked on. he is the director of the emergency management and national preparedness issues. our guest is taking your questions. william is in florida. the morning. caller: thank you for having me on. talking about fema and stuff like that, that is a great program. florida, aboutn 40 years ago, you are not allowed to build on the coast, build a house in that region. now, politicians have changed everything. charley but --e they were going around the neighborhood giving out money hand over fist. they would come to your house and ask if you had something damaged. i never saw anything like this. i have said for 50 years that nobody should build on the coast. there is no reason for it because of barriers, islands, they are there to protect the mainland. crybabies are the people that build out there when the storm comes through. they don't have a problem taking government money. but you want them to pay their taxes, they are just a bunch of racist to get it white trash. host: we will go on there. william's point about building near the coast or any body of water for that matter is not off. there has been increasing development not just on the coast line but increasing populations. everybody wants to live near the water and it is not just the coast line. it is rivers and lakes and flood zones. risks have that the increased. also, when a disaster hits and there is flooding and you have more infrastructure flooded or destroyed, the costs are going to skyrocket. he raises an important policy thing too which is those coastline developments and businesses are economic engines for many of those states and localities. --is a very difficult difficult for states to build near places that generate. it is a very difficult challenge. host: let's head down to texas where dalton is waiting. caller: good morning. -- ited to touch bases feel like the cities and states and counties need to do more to help prepare for disaster preparedness. they spend their money patching up the roads all the time and they've got so many drivers every day. so many people were turning 16 the17 to learn to tear down structures and bridges. and could curb some of that curb some of these subdivisions that are spread out so far they cannot really take care of their own city. like our cities, it is so small that they have the money backed up to prepare. or one of the fired in the stations from california, this city couldn't back it up. dohink the cities should more to help fema be able to andare for these disasters people like these construction companies and stuff that need to share their equipment to rescue people. and is their country too they are part of it. you don't see construction companies saying "take so many bulldozers and help put out the fires." i think the counties and states and business owners should know that when you are buying a house, does it require flood insurance? and when you put up a business, can i take care of it? just like with the zika virus, that is a disaster is thing. back to the preparedness issue that he brings up. some of the thoughts. is preparedness showing to be a good investment? caller: that is a great question. preparedness starts at a local level. fema does not have the resources or the power to go in and make state or local governments do anything to prepare so it really is cities and locals and states that can do that. part of the way they do that is through building codes. the state of florida has strong building codes because of the hurricanes that have been faced with. a lot of times, they don't withstand as much physical damage. host: let's go to ray in lyon mississippi. caller: good morning. year, we had a bunch of flooding that year in mississippi. , in the past six years, we had water inside the house. fema came over and checked the house and we had some old on the wall that they said that we didn't qualify to get the mold out. the mold is a health hazard. i just wondered why? guest: it is difficult for me to comment. i don't know the specifics of the situation or why they deny that case but the point is valid. after something bad happens, who gets the assistance is a big question and how much money they get. when these storms hit, we here in the news, 100 year storm or a 10 year storm, explain what that means? i have noticed a few thousand year floods happening over the last few years but that sort of the western of should these be called that. the likelihood that a flood is going to occur. if somebody says the flooding in west genia was a thousand year the likelihood of that happening is a one in a thousand year type event. fema decides based on their mapping process and historical information. two alabama where matthew is waiting. good morning. caller: hello. i would like to ask about the fema camps and what they are for and what they are supposed to be doing? there are a lot of them around america. i would like to ask if you could ensure that if martial law is ever declared, fours, blacks, and muslims will not go there? i am not sure what the caller is describing in terms of a fema camp. i'm aware of press reports of large volumes of places where fema stores its trailers or temporary housing units. these are meant for people to be .sed in the case of a disaster they were used after katrina and they will be used if somebody's home is destroyed while it is being rebuilt. fema does keep these units in locations around the country. host: bill is in new jersey. that morning. caller: good morning. that fema, when we have emergencies like this where ourisiana, president can give $400 million to and he is attacking our ships, shooting at our planes, why do we give the $400 million to louisiana and they can rebuild right away? does that make any sense to you? guest: i certainly cannot comment on the iranian situation. fema will be giving louisiana hundreds of millions of dollars. host: doris is waiting. caller: good morning, how are you this morning? my question is, my

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