>> and he was once doj's public enemy number one, i'm talking about julian assange, the wikileaks founder, who disclosed lows military secrets. so why did they just strike a deal to let them go free and new reporting in the idaho murders, journalists who's spent money investigating the case reveals a new theory about an alleged motive. >> all tonight on laura coates live well, it's really the big question on everyone's mind is mit how will thursday's cnn debate change or impact the election at all? >> well, the answer could believe will depend very well on which kind of candidates shows that. let me, let me explain what i mean by that. donald trump's allies, they want to see a donald trump who sticks to the issues. one who dial is back and i mean, a back, the insults, the extreme language. in other words, they don't really want rally trump the trump who is obsessed over losing election or the one who advocates for a migrant fight club the radical left democrats rig the presidential election in 2020 and we're not going to allow them to rig the presidential election in 2024. >> but i said dana, dana i have an idea for you to make a lot of money. you're gonna go and start a new migrant fight leg, migrant it's only migrants now the funny thing is fits exactly the trump that team biden hopes shows up. >> one may labeled as unhinged. now, the trump team on the other hand, they hadn't hoping that the man may insult as sleepy joe will show up exactly as that slow and tired and showing any signs with things that will have voters thinking more about his age than about his policies. but suddenly, team trump appears word that's not who they're going to get there trying not to say that they think the whole get a state of the union. joe a feisty president who dispels the notion that he is physically or mentally not up for the job you can love your country only when you win. >> how my predecessor a former republican president tells putin, quote, do whatever the hell you want that's a chrome a former president actually said bowing down to a russian leader. i think it's outrageous, is dangerous and it's unacceptable so tonight, just in case he gets the wrong biden, the one he doesn't want donald trump is seemingly trying to plant a seed. >> how you ask by pushing this baseless accusation that biden will be on some kind of drugs posting drug tests for crooked joe biden. i would also immediately agree to take one well, joining me now football commentator for cnn and former republican lieutenant governor of georgia, geoff duncan. he has endorsed biden for president and he breaks down the three things that biden needs to do to win thursday's debate in a new op ed and the atlanta journal constitution. >> so get to see you again. >> lieutenant governor duncan in just thinking about who might show up at these debates, the candidate, the personality, which version of each will be there? i mean, you say that president biden, he's got to drive home these points to win the debate. on thursday, he's got to answer the age and vitality questions once and for all. he's got to speak to all economic omic realities and remind the country of the embarrassing tumbled of the trump presidency. and so i do wonder from the first part, how does biden go about trying to even attempt to end the discussion about his age once and for all on thursday well, here we go. georgia is in the center of the political universe again, home of the safest, fairest, and most legal elections in the country. and we've proven it. >> yet i think the vitality question is huge. >> he's gotta show up ready to go mentally and physically. and donald trump doesn't my favorite every time he downplays or lowers the bar of expectations, a joe biden has exceeded here are those expectations in debate after debate and quite honestly, even in the last state of the union. but he's got to show up and he's got to put a strong foot forward and really stay on message. i think the fact that he's got to keep his composure and he's got to be able to show that device of difference between him and donald trump and who they are and what they are well, you know, teller baby after cry might be difficult to maintain one's composure if you're saying somebody who's maybe intent on not letting you do just that, but we'll see how this all plays out. also, sources are telling cnn that on the issue of the economy that biden is being urged to change tactics at the debate, not, not focus and discuss on the positives in the economy under his record, like people would normally expect to do to tout their successes. but some democrats want them to focus on attacking trump for cozying up to corporate america. number one, do you agree with that strategy and why if no. telling him to do that? >> well, i do think this is a tale of two stories. this economy, i mean, some folks wake up every morning and this is the worst economy ever if they're trying to buy a house or afford rent or buy groceries others are waking up and this is the greatest economy ever. their house is worth more they're there, they're there for one k is worth more. small businesses doing well i think joe biden has got to speak to both of those realities to be able to meet, be able to make sure it doesn't stoke fear and those that are seeing those tailwinds in the economy, but also to be able to speak to those that are really suffering. and just trying to play up the fact that the economy strong doesn't fit well to some of those voters. the middle is watching this. i think this is an opportunity for joe biden actually extend an olive branch to those lines like me in the middle that are conservative, but just not angry about it and that all of branches to admit that we have a spending problem in this country. and that in his second term, he is going to keep his eye on the ball on spending because ultimately that's where this inflationary problem came. donald trump spent over $1 trillion. we didn't have joe biden continues to spend trillions of dollars. we don't have that is what has led to this inflation and every bubble that we're living in. >> now, you make a good point about how you really can't force people to feel the way that you're success is, might expect them to feel and get in line with it, but just touting and saying what i've done, all these things might not meet the actual moment for some voters, but i do wonder, should biden want voters? to try to remember the chaos of the trump administration when he obviously does, but you have advised him to think of to let trump be trump to let people remember what trump was live with the presidency was like, what it was like to have him govern is that the right tactic here, letting him be trump knowing, of course it could come with some pitfalls about maybe going on too long about topics about showing a particular side of him derailing the debate 45% of america is going to fall in love with donald trump, no matter what comes out of his mouth, 45% of the country is going to fall in love with joe biden with whatever comes out of his mouth that 10% is who they need to speak to. >> and i think joe biden needs to remind america that donald trump doesn't deserve to be the next president. he deserves be the next inmate and rikers island he think he needs to really double down on the fact that his own peers found him guilty of multiple charges and he's up follows, you know, he's got cases in multiple states and jurisdictions. certainly that's in play. we should use that as an accountable feature of whether or not we choose somebody to be the next president of the united states. i think joe biden has every right to paint that picture too. america that he's not donald trump and you know what that's okay. >> speaking of the pay of the picture, you mentioned the beginning that georgia is now again the center of the political universe. all eyes on georgia shout out to ray charles it's everyone's honore was mind still, but your home state actually is where this debate is taking place. obviously the airwaves are being flooded with campaigns in ads. people are putting a lot of money into making sure that georgia voters in particular have an opinion going in and likely one coming out. so what are people saying about all the campaign ads that are coming in and are they making a difference in the way that you think georgia voters? >> well view this issue yeah, i personnel feel like the ads are making any sort of overwhelming difference. >> i mean, either loved donald trump or you don't love them. the folks that are going to choose this next president are folks just like me that are conservative, that are level headed republicans that are just either going to decide to stay on the couch and not vote for either one of them or they're going to show up and actually make it make a difference. it's in vote for joe biden to be able to allow us as common sense conservatives to launch day one of gop to 0.0, the day donald trump gets beat is the day this party, the republican party, gets to get back on its feet and start over again. >> well, someone say he's already been be but he doesn't think so. so we'll see jeff duncan. thank you so much for joining us and then enjoying reading your op-eds. i know the next one is coming out soon. i'm sure. thank you so much. i want to continue our conversation here with our political commentator for cnn and republicans pollster, christian soul ties anderson also former trump administration official, matt mauer and host. can we please talk podcast mic leon, i always make sure that's very like can we talk can we talk more people? you let me begin with this though, because it's just thinking about who shows up, which type of candidate obviously everyone's going to be watching this debate and thinking different things. it's kind of an inkblot war shack tests for people. but i wonder from your perspective, what do you think voters will be most watching for? is it substantive or is it the idea of, i want to know how they perform with one another? >> i think it's both that's by the way, the way you frame the question is the first thing i'm looking for the weight jake and dana frame questions to them is the biggest thing that i'm looking for. but from a vote, why is that? >> well, because like some for example, why would we ask him if he's going to accept the results of the 2024 election, he hasn't accepted the 2020. he has accepted a 2016 it's not rigged and stolen. high, no, because he's participating in and again, you don't participate in something that's already rigged and stolen that you've felt you've been cheated on. so back to the voter thing though for a second. i think voters and kristen could speak to this a little bit better. they're looking at single issues, right? the war in gaza, right? the money that's being spent by the u.s. on that the economic initiatives that we've talked about, consumer goods are up year over year. those are just numbers. it's math stuff. >> so how did these guys speak about that? >> the problem is the underlying issue is we have this new format of muting microphones and being able to hear people back talk. and maybe that sidetracked a candidate to talk about something else. house does that take away the focal point of a policy discussion which we all agree, we want that are we going to get that who knows? >> well, do voters, i mean want those policy issues or do they i mean, you have to wonder, sometimes you're a pollster, you know this quite well, but with this area, all of you really but what do you think the voters are most looking for out of the presidential debate? keep in mind this the earliest one we've ever had really, it sounds nice to say, hey, these candidates need to come with their pinpoint plan to fix the economy. >> and if i went out and did a poll and i ask voters, what do you want to hear from candidates? >> people would probably say i'd like to hear them ever substantive discussion on the issues. >> but the reality is, this is going to be a spectacle. >> people are going to tune in to figure out what does it look like when these two men now for years older than they were the last it's time they did this stand on a stage next to each other. >> i don't think that it's likely that either of these candidates wins the debate on substance. >> but i do think that there are substantive ways these candidates can lose the debate. so take donald trump for instance, if he gets asked a question, as i'm sure he will be on an issue like abortion he cannot survive giving an answer that says well, i don't really have a position. we're coming up with the policy. it's going to be great. >> i'll tell you next week. >> i'll tell you next week. that's what he did recently on an issue like birth control you can't do that. this is an issue that is very important to a lot of voters and they want clarity on it. and so there are ways that substantively these candidates can say something that sounds wishy-washy is a non answer, and that can create a bad moment for them much more so than i think anyone is going to dazzle the public with some great substance and to have response to a policy? >> well, i do wonder them in that respect is this i mean, listen to what trump has been saying about preparing for this debate. if it may be, he's aware of that notion and the spectacle aspect of it listen to how he says he's well prepping how are you preparing? i'm preparing by taking questions from you and others if you think about it, but i'm preparing by dealing with you. your tougher than all i'm dealing with you that's what i'm ready to do. >> is that really enough? >> all look, i've got confession bag i played 18 holes of golf today for the first time in over five years, and i sucked on the course. you know why i didn't practice. i haven't been out there in five-years actually doing anything every single shot was awful. and so it is important for them get practice. he's not wrong. donald trump is always prepared for debates this way. i remember back in 2016 some of the campaign we're scheduling tab on hall style meetings for him, justin advance of the debate with hillary clinton, he was very keen on making sure there weren't flashing lights, there weren't cue cards. they're prepared, preplanned questions. you want a flat-out town hall because he's also a little superstitious. >> if you over prepare some times, kind of lose that type of what he values is one of his group greatest strength, which is his instinct. >> this is a guy who really prioritize having an open schedule when he was running the trump companies and trump operation, in part because he wanted that flexibility. you want to be able to change based upon instinct during the day, he does the st. goes the same way into a debate setting. obviously very different from what president biden's doing right now, hunkered down at camp david, preparing as many probably plan leinz as he can. and i'm sure the white house is crafting a lot of them. so be very interesting to see. do you take preparation? they take instinct because that's what we're going to see on thursday. >> i wing it every night just want to you want to practice? >> because we don't want to sound rehearsed. i think that would be the biggest message that i would give to president biden if he's if he's preparing some leinz, make some funny jokes like you just did about playing golf. i'm 70 handicapped by the way a kind of jokes that you make, but it has to come off natural, like there's a certain genesee qual about this, right? >> that we're all watching for. this is the superbowl kids. okay. so for those of you out there watching, this is a soup bowl. we want to learn more about these folks you're truly independent. you want to hear policy discussion watch this and watch how they sound. and can you trust this person for the next four years and tolerate them being in your living room every single day for the next four years. and that's the key thing. >> well, we already know that voters have kinda said no to both of them. >> and that's where in some ways i think that this debate, it has a lot of peril for donald trump. >> obviously, i'm frankly surprised he agreed to it. >> said sure, i'll show up wherever whenever because right now, trump is slightly ahead in the polls. >> there's more of a likelihood that this changes the race in a negative direction. for him on the other hand, that spontaneity i really think that is the one place where trump has the opportunity to get one up on biden. >> if for instance, biden does have a moment where he's maybe not his sharpest, not as his best. there's a way donald trump can come out, hit that too hard, be mean, be a bully and turn everyone off. >> but if you make some sort of light quip and moves on, there is a way that donald trump, i think still is a little more energetic than biden is better at television as an art than biden. >> there's a chance that donald trump, the apprentice guy, for instance shows up on that point though, and you made the point earlier about there are certain topics when it's not gonna be enough just to have window dressing on issues reproductive rights. one very important one. there are going to be the answer as it must be given for voters. and there's not the audience to feed off of, to have that instant gratification. am i doing okay, there's no active list it's nerves in the actual moderators. there are, there's not an audience of people who are going to tell you, i like what you said, or i didn't. that's going to be hard to have that vacuum forum, but there's one independent voter that told the times this so i want to read it for you all. this is the most apprehensive i've felt about a presidential debate. i sense a disaster in the making where neither will look presidential. i do wonder how acute is that fear for them? >> you've got to remember the other pieces, 2s that you can go with the best plan strategy. and i've run for office, i've been on in debates. you can go with everything planned. >> it's all human experience at the end of the de, these are two candidates. >> we hate each other, but they make no bones about they personally dislike each other and so as much as i'm sure both them are getting go in, prepared with some persona to some degree. there. eventually human emotion can take over in these debates settings. and we'll see how they react to each other. but because of that visceral dislike of each other, i think that voters concerns are gonna be confirmed on thursday and i can just piggyback one thing because geoff duncan said there about the 10% in the middle it's more like 14, 15%, and you don't know how i know that because rfk, jill stein, cornell west, or totaling 14% and and 156 million people voted in 2020. and if you'd use simple math of 15% as 20 three-and-a-half million people. i think that are truly feeling independent or politically homeless, that that's where you have to really talk to. and that's what that kind of speaks to right there on thursday that they're going to be watching for. >> and of course, you've got the voters who didn't ref, they're trying to capture a younger voters. will they listen for the all debate? well, they wait for the sound bites that come out. >> can you get the full essence of the debate or how they perform if you only have that, you had to watch it. >> thank you so much to all of you. i appreciate it. jake tapper and dana bash moderate thursday's debate live from the atl, beginning at nine pm eastern and also streaming on max. >> while the controversial wikileaks founder who was facing a potential 175 year prison sentence. now free. >> well, the deal of his letting julian assange avoid u.s. imprisonment. and what former director of national intelligence, james clapper thinks about it next thursday night live for midland. the most anticipated moment of this election. >> biden dr. honore on mate america isn't future because that we are a nation of possibility. >> trump. we had the best economy, we had the best border, we had the best of everything. >> and now we gotta do it all over again. we're gonna do it even better two very different visions for america. >> one unprecedented night moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate thursday night at nine live on cnn and streaming and backs greetings happen hi cutie yeah, that's not good. >> happened huge things happen happened with three jump early prime day deals at amazon.com what i look forward to a contractor is someone who is reliable and skillful. that's where angie comes in with top rated certified pros and over 500 categories. sandi, can connect you with the right pro for any home projects fine, top rated certified prose in your area at angie.com, whether you're moving across town or across the country? you can count on pods to deliver when we say we will, which is why we were voted america's number one container moving 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according to the terms of the deal, assange will plead guilty to a single felony count of illegally obtaining and his closing national security material the punishment while the doj wants a 62 months sentence equal to the amount of time he's already served in the uk that means he will avoid imprisonment in this country and the deal, of course, must still be approved by a federal judge. but if it is it is a significant win for assange who faced 18 counts from between 19 indictment that carried a maximum of up to 175 years in prison joining me now, james clapper, a cnn national security analyst and former director of national intelligence, also here, david sanger, a cnn political and national security analysts and author of new cold war's, china's rise, russia's invasion, and americans struggle to defend the west. thank you both for being here this evening. this is really significant news that has come out about julian assange. i know this has been well, we've been talking about for many, many years about what he would happen to them. >> you are actually president, director clapper of national intelligence when he was ready, released a trove of classified documents. >> how do you feel about this plea deal tonight? >> well, laura, this may come as a surprise to you, but i actually think this came out pretty well i think critical to this was his plea of one count of espionage. i think law, enforcement, community and the intelligence community wouldn't have bought into this without that but he's served essentially seven years of incarceration in the ecuadorian embassy in london got it, was released from that and then a brits arrested him and he did 62 months in jail, hard time and one and so he's sort of you know, paid paid his dues i will say contemporaneously. they're great concern about the revelations that he made at the time, particularly where it could have put at risk people or compromised sources and methods that's all the thing that and tells community worries about that he has that that hasn't happened, is that why you feel this is it's ended up correctly are well, but we don't know that he's done that or it hasn't had that effect well, there was a damage assessment done at the time and there was concern, although i don't recall any direct proof that, for example assets and afghanistan, iraq, who are supporting, helping the united states were exposed i think another issue here speaking on behalf of the intelligence community is you can't have a system where people on their own unilaterally decide ball i just think it's okay to expose all this classified information when they've they've made a commitment to protect it that to me is very important principle to bear in mind here. >> but i again when i began, i think justice is doesn't served. >> what do you think david? and one thing we've heard from base perform vice president mike pence, he calls this deal actually a miscarriage of justice, and that it put the lives of troops at risky, has posted something about that but a big question, many people is the wide now, why now? and is this the right result for you well, let's start off with what director clapper is as pointed out, was an act of revelation of this vast trove. >> remember there were so long ago we all forget there were really two very different froze. one was military secrets and videos and so forth. some of which showed some problematic behavior on the part of of american troops. and the second was the big trove of diplomatic cables, which i worked on with a team of new york times reporters so they were initially revealed by chelsea manning than a private the military who was convicted and sentenced role that i believe later on, pardoned. >> at later commuted very five-year sentence. that's right. >> and it was private manning who had made those commitments to keep all of those things secret it was a different and more complicated case for assange he was not a us government employee. he had never made commitments to do that. he wasn't a us citizen, didn't take place in the us he also wasn't a journalist right? he was taking this de and just throwing everything out of out there because wikileaks had this anarchic concept of full transparency. he didn't do what i think laura, you and i would consider what journalists do sift through material, figure out what's important. exercise from judgment about what you publish and what you don't excise the names of people whose lives could be at risk. those were all things that we and other news organizations went and did that make a difference to you and thinking about how we won, you point out correctly that there's certain hurdles the prosecution would have to face all these things but then you talk about journalism and the press it is a distinction from what somebody who is supposed to protect the documents in different way would this have created difficult precedent you think very much so because it was a use of the espionage act against journalists. >> here in the future that i was really worried about, that even of wikileaks was not a journalistic organization. once you had the precedent there that the espionage act, which i think goes back to 1917 over war one was being used against journalists who are in regular, ordinary work. you fully come across and sometimes have to make judgments about publishing classified information. this was going to be the precedent for that and i worried about that a lot, isn't just should be a bad precedent. ignore it, right? now is my point about the discipline should be sustained here. for people who are obligated to protect classified of information so had this been completely ignored, had the indictment not been levied by the federal federal jury? that's a bad precedent to set as well. >> it's the issue is complex. >> you've got on one hand, the proponents for transparency and openness and the free press the first amendment and then aisle proponents like people like me that are concerned about protection, national security, human assets sources and methods, et cetera. it's a religious argument you can debated for days and an old one that is required balancing for years and years by the courts. i think probably at the end of the day they ended up with something relatively close to a good balance here. i think had assange come back and been tried under the espionage act. and there had been multiple convictions. i think there would be a pretty bad precedent and i think there'll be some in journalism who think even this creates a precedent that could be used by another administration in the future to go after reporters, director clapper, i'll give you the last run this in terms of the intelligence community, in particular, because obviously sometimes you're it will prosecute the doj cases with a mind towards deterrence and letting an example for people as well. obviously, chelsea manning, private manning did suffer some consequences legally from this. >> do you think the intelligence community is satisfied that julian assange essentially gets time served i don't know i don't know. >> i can speak for the entirety the intelligence community. i think there'll be a division of opinion about it. some people will not be happy about about this others getting the passage of time since the exposure and the amount of time he spent in in incarceration. i think would be okay with it. personally, i not only speaking personally, i think it came out right. >> well, i'm sure there will be political fallout from ma'am, you can only imagine, we do have a former president with a classified documents case pending, right. and different in different areas. and you know that i would believe that ammunition would be developed from the idea of this decision, but we'll see how it all plays out. don't worry, it will be instant reactions and maybe even on thursday, i debate gentlemen, thank you so much for being here for your time. >> thank you. >> i'm going to clap or and david sanger ahead sparks flying around a long day of hearings. look at that and trump's classified documents case with the judge actually sparring with prosecutors. >> so what can we read in these tea leaves from the courtroom drama or somebody who was there is going to join me next. the most anticipated moment of this election and the stakes couldn't be higher. the president and the former president one day i want you two very different visions for america's future. the cnn presidential debate thursday night at nine live on cnn and streaming on max the all new godaddy arrow helps you get your business online in minutes with the power of ai, with the perfect name great level and a beautiful website to start with the domain, a few clicks and you're in business make now the future at godaddy.com slash arrow let me introduce you to play plus 500. the intuitive and easy to use trading app that gives you a glimpse into the future of futures trading. >> see a trading opportunity. >> 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brings another episode and the drama of the donald trump classified documents case the focus trump's request to throw out some evidence had been collected at mar-a-lago during the search. >> now today, judge cannon heard arguments on two other key issues. >> the first one another attempt by donald trump's team to throw out the entire case and they argue that this guy, but it'll counsel jack smith is somehow unlawfully funded. now there has not been a decision about that yet. then cheered the prosecution's request for a gag order arguing that his statements are inciting threats against fbi agents. the judge appeared skeptical about that argument. you didn't actually make a ruling, but she did chastise federal prosecutor david harbach saying, quote, i don't appreciate your tone that she would appreciate decorum at all times, but quote, if you aren't able to do that, i'm sure one of your colleagues can take up arguing this motion now prosecutor argued the gag order is needed because trump's rhetoric is so dangerous and he's making false statements about the fbi search of mar-a-lago saying that agents were authorized to take him out because of the standard language, it's contained in the actual text of the warrant that does allow for the use of deadly force without saying that you want to use it now harbach saying quote, the government is at a loss to conceive why mr. trump would say something so false so inconceivable or inviting a violence to which judge cannon asked, quote, where do you see a call for violence? trump's attorney, todd blanche, arguing what trump said was purely political, quote, the attacks very clearly are against president biden now with me now, we've got devlin barrett, a law enforcement reporter and co-author of the trump trials newsletter for the the washington post. also here a cnn legal commentator and former trump lawyer, tim parlatore begin with you, devlin, because you were in the courtroom today. so tell me about what was going on what is the likelihood that the prosecutor who actually get the gag or they're asking for i think this has always been a long-shot. the judge has been skeptical of the argument for this gag orders since the prosecutors first made it, to be honest, david harbach, the prosecutor, didn't do himself any favors in his presentation today. and the judge, i think pushed him on a number of points that he did not have immediate at hand answers four. >> so it feels like the judge's disinclined at this point to rule in the government's favor here. >> but she did ask for more submission, so i don't think this is a settled conversation yet. but it has not gone well for the government will talk to you about this tone comment that i don't appreciate your tone. i wonder what his tone was because there was another moment when the judge warned prosecutors abruptly not to interrupt her. i mean, cannon was criticized, asked for her handling, but tell you what the dynamic inside the court so remember, this is about human beings, right? it's not, it's not, it's not a great knowledge. >> are human beings devlin no one ever admits it. thank you so much. humans go ahead and it was very, very human day in court, laura, a very human de because what happened was the judge kept interrupting david harvey harbach, the prosecutor, as he was making his arguments. david harbach got i think a little flustered and a little frustrated by the interruptions. >> and, you know, this is probably too nerdy a point, but it felt for much of the day like an appeals court hearing as opposed to a trial court hearing? >> and i think some of the lawyers have more different degrees of experience with the appeals court type of back-and-forth and trial court back-and-forth and harbach basically got frustrated and said one point in frustration i'm trying to give you the answer, but you keep interrupting. he didn't say that verbatim, but that was what he was conveying to the judge what the judge basically said was, okay. cool. cool. your jets you're gonna get to say whatever you want to say. >> but i have questions along the way and i'm the charge, so i get to ask some questions. and i think he understood that he had not done well in the moment and came back to it, but to be honest yet, he had a couple of problems during the day that was the most obvious one. but he had other sort of like practical problems in terms of his presentation that the judge was not impressed with and it just it did not go well for him and to be honest, they have been down this road before. >> she chastised for for not making fulsome arguments on this issue of a gag or essentially bail modification to be clear. >> but, you know, it's a little surprising to me that they weren't better prepared for what they have to it was assumed was a skeptical audience. >> let me turn to you, tim, on this because having a gag order request for donald trump is really part for the course out several of his cases as you have seen, each of them are different for a variety of reasons, but prosecutors were citing an armed attack on an fbi office at after trump push boasted about the search and mar-a-lago and the agents said, quote, someone said would be hunted down and slaughtered in their own homes after which we're going to slaughter your whole family this is the connection they're trying to drive the point home that his statements about the texts, the warrant lead to things like this or could potentially lead to things like that. should that have been enough just by itself. >> if you can actually make the connection, then it's something that, is worthwhile bringing up. but would it sounds to me like is that they have yeah. threats against the fbi in an armed attack on an fba office comments by donald trump and no connection between the two. and so that's really, it sounds to me like what the judge was pushing the monae's. hey, you're saying this happened, you're saying this happened, but if you can't give me anything to suggest the connection between the two other than that you're jack smith and that's what you're that's what you believe then that's not enough for a gag order on the potential at times, i mean, they had to make their own arguments all right. >> if our for me to take them for them, but showing that there has been a connection as opposed to a prospective possibility. say this with a jury trial already, the prospect of someone being harmed might be enough for a judge, but this would not be you know, and you brought up the point earlier that these have become par for the course for trump came bases. they are not par for the course in any other circumstance, gag orders are extremely rare and they're rare because they are unconstitutional and they are only allowed in very, very limited specific circumstances. and what i've been seeing throughout these cases is by continuously bringing gag orders against donald trump. the justice department and manhattan district attorney's office. they're kind of peeling back what the standard is and getting judges to say, well, in this case, i'll allow it because this defendant is so bad it's the same kind of stuff that we saw back in in the 80s with a lot of these organized crime cases in new york where judges would say, well, this defendant is so bad, so yes, we're going to impose this a lesser standard and the case law then moves back further and further from what the rule is because of this defendant and what that ends up with is a situation where you've created a rule that becomes much more lenient and then gag order start to become par for the course, for everybody if this were closer, look quick, closer to the trial date. no has not been said, of course, in this matter, the idea of a gag order might become more of an urgent issue as opposed to a perspective on because talk with the length of time would be implemented would be really for as long as it took to set a trial date, it could be indefinite here's the thing is that gag orders, generally speaking, are for protection of the integrity of the trial and so if you're trying to protect the jury pool, that is one of the things that is a viable reason for me gag order. if you're afraid that he is inciting violence, if they truly had evidence that he was inciting violence they were bringing a separate charge against him and they would get a preliminary injunction in that case for the incitement of violence. but because they don't have any evidence of that, they're trying to shoehorn it into this different proceeding. and i think that's what the judge really calling them out. >> we'll see how the judge ultimately resolves this issue. she's got a lot of motions outstanding. frankly, devlin barrett, two and parlatore, keeping our eyes and ears. devlin, we'll keep talking about this. thank you so much. >> ahead. a new book, diving into the murders of four idaho students. and it suggests the suspect may have only been targeting one of them. the author is here to go through his reporting next this. election season. stay with cnn, with more reporters on the ground. and the best political team in the business follow the voters, follow the results follow the facts, follow. >> cnn. >> lumina was the first floor ride free toothpaste. i've ever found that actually works. my dentist was blown away with how clean and white my gums and teeth are so healthy, it's crazy. you can get luminoso, toothpaste at a walmart and target are you keeping as much of your investment gains as possible? my taxes can erode returns quickly. at creative planning, your portfolio is managed and attacks efficient manner. it's what you keep that really matters book you're free meeting today at creative planning.com see idp disrupts cid p derails. let's be honest. sucks but living to see idp doesn't have to. >> when you sign up at shining through cid p.com, you'll find inspiration and real patient stories helpful tips i bold information and more cid p can be tough. but finding hope 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findlay me. >> we went our separate ways. >> i'm going to need you to re-establish a connection you're gonna have to prove something i remind you that he tried to keep the family together i will come to learn a hard miami lesson. every pleasure has a price even mackenzie in washington and this is cnn a big hearing and the idaho student murders case this week, lawyer expected to discuss dates for the trial of the suspects, bryan kohberger. he's accused, of course of killing four students back in november of 2022. and that case has been delayed due to different pretrial motions bins, and while he awaits trial, a chilling new theory claims that he actually only had one specific target. >> howard boom explains it in his new book that is out tomorrow when the night comes falling is baseless confrontation with law enforcement and other sources and he joins me now, howard, welcome and good evening to this reporting. >> really significant. i've been following this case is we all have across the nation because it was just so chilling for so many reasons. tell me about your reporting and what led you to a theory that only one of the individuals who was killed was the specific target? >> well, i was able to get out to idaho to moscow in the early days before the suspect was identified and in those days before there was a gag order. a gag order is the topic it seems tonight, going through the show, i was able to talk to people in law enforcement, talk to people in the town, and be able to establish relationships with the people. and i was able to recreate the best of my ability. what happened on the night of the murder. both the prosecution and the defense have testified in court that there was no proof of any connection to kohberger, who's a charged with the killings and any of the victims. however, if one goes over the events that night, he enters on the second floor of the house through a kitchen door. that's left open. it's never locked. he goes up to the third floor. now there are two people living on the second floor. if he was looking for a specific victim, if he was just on a amana killing spree, you would have stopped there. instead, he goes up to the third floor to maddie moguls bedroom it so happens that kailey kohn clovis is there that that night that weekend, she's come to visit. she usually has been living up north. she's about to graduate. so i believe that maddie was his target everyone else in this horrific event was really collateral damage as people called out and spoke with him, as he noticed them, as he was returning down the stairs after the killing that's when he murdered zabner and ethan can now of course, he is the charged defendant in this case and the trial has not been completed and he maintains his presumption of innocence. >> but the way that you had describing your reporting, i mean, you actually report that his own sister had her own suspicions writing, she began to notice certain things about her own family. there was brian wearing white surgical gloves as the eci suctioned the hyundai's upholstery and trunk with a shot vacuum then there were any was in the kitchen late at night sorting his days personal detritus into plastic, zip-lock bags. what did you do next? >> at this point? >> according to the reporting, i've done, his sister confronts the father. >> now the father has just returned from a trip across country with the sun. they were shoulder to shoulder in a hyundai elantra during the four or five day trip across america there, you note the father knows the police are looking for a white han de he he knows his son has had emotional problems has been a former heroin addict. he he so concerned about the sun that he goes out to see him and make this trip home with them. >> so at this point, the father was reaching conclusions about the sun. >> he was thinking the unthinkable he was trying to deal with the realization following the footprints of what he was thinking in his mind that lead to the conclusion. oh, my gosh, my son might have been responsible. so when the daughter confronts him, what does he do? he walks off without a word. he really can't confront it. he's not emotionally capable of confronting his son for what he's done in many ways. this family, kohberger's family are victims. two of these crimes, this story is about there are no survivors really, there are just victims unbelievable. >> we did reach out to their kohberger family and bryan kohberger's attorney and the county prosecutor's office. and if not heard back, this this book is so gripping as is the actual case itself. and as you mentioned, all of the families and the collateral damage through the entire community, howard bloom will continue to follow there. thank you so much. >> my speaking with you, laura. >> thank you. i want to thank you all for watching and shot out in particular to someone i loved very much, my janelle. she used to watch this show every single night before she went too bad and she would send me a text at some point to talk about some aspect of it. and it made me feel very close to her and she's a beloved member of our family who passed away just a few hours ago. and so i just wanted to say that you were loved you don't good. you will be missed and thank you. in particular for watching and now you'll watch from above. thank you so much. >> beit like in america as biden that trump meet and only cnn has complete coverage unrivaled access, and exclusive pre and post debate analysis follows cnn for every countless moment followed debate night in america, thursday at 7:00 p.m. this is futurama. >> go daddy arrow creates a logo website even social posts in minutes ai, ai, like it was the gfc, the view, get your business online in minutes with go daddy arrow once upon a time, there wasn't infinity meticulously crafted to stir your imagination and daring to dream luxurious. >> three roe dreams for everything, for every passenger. could be just right introducing the all 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