the bill rape will continue to rise. >> all crimes will continue to rise. >> you think it's appropriate for the vice president to use language in such -- >> we've got to go. >> you hear the vice president there make a reference to flint, as in flint michigan. last week the vice president raised the spectrum of rising crime republicans keep blocking the president's plan to keech teachers and first responders on the payrolls. >> in 2008, when flint had 265 sworn officers on the police force, there were 35 murders and 91 rapes in the city. in 2010, when flint had only 144 police officers, the murder rate climbed to 65, rapes, to pick two categories, climbed to 229. in 2011, you now only have 125 shields. god only know what the numbers will be this year for flint if we don't rectify it. >> the vice president going through the statistics in flint. that was a week ago. republicans began complaining within minutes of that event. but yesterday in philadelphia, the vice president escalated the rhetoric. listen to this. >> the only thing i've heard from my friends who oppose this, this jobs bill, and this, that this is just temporary. well let me tell you, it's not temporary when that 911 call comes in and a woman's being raped if a cop shows in time to prevent the rape. it's not temporary to that woman. it's not temporary to the guy whose store is being held up and a gun pointed at his head if the cop shows up and he's not killed, that's not temporary. to that store owner. give me a break, temporary! i wish these guys, i wish they had some notion to know what it's like to be on the other side of a gun or a 200 pound man standing over you tell you to submit. folks, it matters. it matters. >> that last part that's drawing outrage from republicans. the republican national committee co-care woman calling the remarks irresponsible, mean-spirited. said today, no victim of violent crime would wish others were forced to experience the same trauma they went through, exspecially to make a brazen political point. why would the sitting vice president of the united states? joining us now, dan lothian. dan at the white house today, the vice president is just making the statistical case and maybe it's emotional or do they think, as the republicans are complaining, vociferously, that he crossed some line? >> reporter: i asked an official if the vice president's language was appropriate and this official pointing out to me that the vice president has discussed this and he has nothing more to add to this. i can tell you, we have seen over last several weeks a ramped up rhetoric from the president, certainly not like the words that we have heard from the vice president, but the president, in pointing the finger at republicans saying they're playing political games, that they're picking partisan fights. why is the president doing this? there's a sense of urgency at the white house. there's a concern that if congress does not act quickly enough that some of the progress that has been made and the current economic situation that we see now will be reversed, that things could get much worse. the president's big plan, jobs ability, was defeated up on capitol hill. wuf seen it over the last few days on the road pushing for pieces of his jobs plan but even that does have its hurdles. and there's a concern here that, again, if congress doesn't act quickly, communities around the country will be hurt. >> important point. dan lothian, at the white house, as tempers raise. turning to presidential politics, the fallout from a debate that opened a new and pointed and personal chapter in the republican race for president. early on the surprising herman cain and his 9-9-9 tax plan, well, favorite targets. >> herman, i love you, brother, but you don't have to have a big analysis to figure this thing out. go to new hampshire, where they don't have a sales tax, and you fix to give them one. they're not interested in 9-9-9. what they are interested in is flatter and fairer. >> but attention quickly shifted from mr. cain to the national front-runner, mitt romney. >> you just don't have credibility, mitt when it comes to repealing obama care. your plan was the basis for obama care. >> the pointed and personal exchanges, though, between governor romney and the texas governor, rick perry. >> you lose all of your standing, from my perspective, pause you hired illegals in your home and you knew for a year and the idea that you stand here before us and talk about that you're strong on immigration is on its face the height of hypocrisy. >> governor romney? >> rick, i don't think i've ever hired an illegal in my life, so i'm -- i'm looking forward to finding your facts on that because that just glsh i tell you what the facts are. >> rick, again -- i'm speaking, i'm speaking, i'm speaking. i'm speaking. >> we hired a lawn company that -- to mow our lawn and they had illegal immigrants working there. when that was pointed out to us we let them go. so we went to the company and we said, look you can have any illegals working on our property. i'm running for office, for pete's sake, i can't have illegals. >> a lot of questions raises, and some very important lessons learned. let's begin our breakdown of the big republican debate with the democratic perspective. david axelrod, president obama's top campaign adviser, joins us from new york. david, a simple question what was your biggest lesson from the big republican debate. >> well, i think that the tape that you just ran, john, was probably some of the most revealing that we've seen through these nine debates. that one comment of mitt romney's in which he told the gardening service that he can't have illegals because he's running for office, not because it's wrong, not because it's illegal, but because he's running for office, i thought was a great insight into him and you know, it helps explain why he can shift so easily from position to position on fundamental things, like health care, like choice and like gay rights and almost anything you can put your finger on. last year he attacks the president for being too tough on china. now he's a trade warrior. you get the sense that everything is in service of running for office. so no position or principle is to great to abrogate in service of that goal. >> we saw a very different rick perry last night. the governor of texas had some flat, i'm being kind, debates leading up to this one. he was pretty feisty last night. what did you learn about him? >> obviously what's apparent is that he's going to try to fight for this. he's not going to go out with a wimper. and he was more challenging. i didn't learn a whole lot about his views. i mean, his principle economic argument that is we can drill our way to prosperity. i think people understand it's more complicated than that. but the one thing you would learn from a political standpoint is that you know, he seems willing and eager to step up his pace in terms of governor romney and his pursuit of the nomination. >> if we look back at rules and we've been through a lot of campaigns history says herman cain, there's no way he can do what he's doing. but he has jumped up, listen to this. >> the state sales tax will go away? >> no, that's an apple. >> okay. >> we are replacing a bun of oranges. >> governor par perry was right. >> no, he was mixing apples and oranges. >> i'll bump plans. we'll see who has the best idea of how to get the country working again. >> the 9-9-9 plan helped herman cain go from nowhere to the top of the polls. what is it about him or that plan that's captivating people? >> well, i think there are i accouple of things. what is it about him is that he's not a politician, at a time when politicians are trading very low. that's were mitt romney, who has been running for office for almost 20 years, keeps repeating, i'm not a politician, i'm a businessman. i think running for office for 20 years probably characterizes you as a politician. but cain's benefited from that. he's an engaging personality. but i do think that, as you move up, people begin to scrutinize you more closely, that's did last night. and that tax plan is a very, very insidious thing for middle class people, poor people in this country, essentially, as has been reported, a tax increase on 85% of americans with the 15% at the top getting a tax cut, that's what we don't need at this time, and he got called on it last night. >> what does teach you about the politics of the moment? again this guy can go from nowhere to the top of the republican pack? he's a bit of ross perot, some tea party appeal. what's in the water? your guy's running in the political climate. >> two things to take away from this. as i said there's a tremendous am of jaundice about politics, generally, today. and that permeates all -- on both sides i think you can sense that. people are very unhappy with washington, unhappy with the political system, because of the perception of gridlock in congress. and some of the positions taken there. but there's another takeaway, john, which is, we've had romney and an un-romney in a variety of iterations throughout the campaign. michele bachmann filled the role for a while. rick perry soared to the top, and when he came down to earth, cain took his place. romney sits there at 23%, 24% of the vote in all of these polls and the question is, why aren't they buying mitt romney? and i think it goes back to this question that we raised-year-old, that he raised himself last night with the unintended revealing comment, people don't know where his core is, they don't know what he believes and what principle he's actually fighting for other than his own advancement politically. i think that makes people uncomfortable in the republican primaries. i think it will make peoplen comfortable, should he be be the nominee, in a general election campaign. >> you're watching this play out, taking a lot of notes. if the president of the united states called you and said, based on everything you have learned so far, the latest lessons you learned last night, which one of these guys or woman, congresswoman bachmann is up there as well, which one of these republicans is best debater? i'm not asking you to do dig deep into the proposals. which is the best debater? >> well, i think that governor romney's done very well. he's slipped a lot of punches, he's not been held accountable for a lot of conflicting statements that he's made over the years and conflicts with his record. and he's presented himself well. i think this is one of the advantages he has in this race. he's been running for president for six years. he's been around this track. and he's a more confident candidate now because he's had the experience of running once before and it's shown up -- it's shown up in these debates. >> talk about your side. you're the chief advocate for the president of the united states, planning his campaign strategy. he sat down with abc's jake tapper. you like to say it's not a referendum but it's a choice. jake asked, give yourself a grade. the president said he wouldn't do that. then he said at best, incomplete. hope and change was the motto four years ago. can you campaign on a need four more years to finish the class? >> i think there's no doubt that we do need four more years. president came in under really adverse circumstances for the country. and has been essentially an economic triage unit since he arrived there. but there are things that we need to do, not just create more jobs in country but to make sure that we create an economy, rebuild the economy in a way that work pays that responsibility's rewarded, responsibility is held accountable and people can get ahead again. that's going to take some time. it took a long time to get into the mess we're in. it's going to take some time to get out. so i do think that that is a factor. and he's right to give himself -- he's right to give himself an incomplete. we've got more work to do. >> i am fascinated by itting but i don't know what to make of it. and i'm talking about occupy wall street. we've seen the large demonstrations, you're in new york city. we've seen other demonstrations, some small, some medium, some large in other cities across the country. is this a protest movement? will it become a big political movement in in the conversation with jake tapper, here's the president's take. >> i understand the frustrations that are being expresses in those protests. in some ways they're not that different from some of the protests that we saw coming from the tea party. both on the left and the right. i think people feel separated from their government. they feel their institutions aren't looking out for them. >> some people say this could be the tea party of the left, other people said take a walk through the parks and you'll see fringe, left radical elements that aren't going to be a potent punch at the ballot box. who are they? >> some of the sentiments that have been expressed are much more broadly held than simply in a park in lower manhattan. all around this country, around water coolers and kitchen tables, people are expressing some of those same frustrations. hard working people, middle class people who and done everything right, met their responsibilities, and yet have seen their wages flatlined or fall, their expenses rise, home values fall, and some of it, a lot of it, has to do with some of the things that happened in the last decade in places like wall street that plunged the economy into the mess that we're in, and frankly, washington wasn't doing its job in sufficiently policing the market so that things were transparent and above bore. so these frustrations are widely held, john. whatever the outcome of these protests, we should not underestimate the sense of frustration and the pervasiveness of it. i think it's a very central theme in our country and in our politics right now there do you worry the frustration could be directed at your guy, number within, he's an incumbent, and sometimes when you're an incumbent, whether fair or unfair, you catch that harpoon. two, your president did raise a lot of money on wall street and continues to solicit money on wall street. three the people around him, chief of staff, bill daley, an official at jpmorgan chase, gene sperling has past ties to wall street and goldman sachs, jacob lieu, past ties to citigroup. do you worry your guy could be a symbol, a target of their frustration? >> all i can tell you is that, if i hear the testimonials of people on wall street correctly, they don't agree with that. there's a great deal of unhappiness amongst some quarters on wall street about the financial reforms the president fought for and issed amentstering to try to prevent the kind of crisis we had before and hole these institutions accountable for what we do. if people care about these issues, and if they're looking for a president who identifies with the struggles of everyday people and the struggle of the middle class and is working for an economy in which the middle class is growing and not shrinking, we're going to do very well with those voters. we should. >> david axelrod, appreciate your time. >> good to be with you. shouldn't weicalliment a politician, give him a big hooray when he's honest? a truth from mitt romney that could prove quite painful. ♪ [ cellphone rings ] cut! 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[ male announcer ] introducing the reinvented 2012 toyota camry. it's ready. are you? ♪ [ male announcer ] it has an hd webcam, killer audio, and lids that switch to start every semester fresh. but mostly it helps me try new moves on and off the court. ♪ [ male announcer ] powered by the 2nd gen intel core processor family. not just smart. visibly smart. get an inspiron 15r with 6 gig memory and 640 gig hard drive for $599.99 at dell.com. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement available only with liberty mutual auto insurance, if your car's totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? there won't be many days when the top obama brain and rick perry's inner circumstance rl in complete agreement. but today they are. both camps see this as the signature moment of our big republican presidential debate. >> we went to the company and we said, look, you can't have any illegals working on our properties, i'm running for office, for pete's sake, i can have illegals. >> remember this controversy back from the 2008 campaign. the "boston globe" reported that lawn care company hired to take care of romney's massachusetts home employed illegal immigrants after the newspaper brought the matter to the governor's attention he told the company to clean up its act. the company was still employing illegal immigrants, romney fired them. as romney noted it's hard to keep track of what your contractors are doing. just the fact that romney's lawn care company hires illegal immigrants wouldn't cost the candidate that many votes. it's not just spin. governor romney's explanation in the debate is damning, and potentially damaging. here it is one more time. >> i'm running for office, for pete's sake, i can't have illegals. >> for starts are it's supposed to be a question of right and wrong, legal or illegal, not a question of political viability. in a vacuum, governor romney could own up to giving a lousiancer and perhaps move on. the problem is i'm running for office explanation is a foil for saying romneys a chronic camilla. a telling exchange on health care. >> and i said, no, this is something that was crafted for massachusetts. it would be wrong to adopt this as a nation. >> that's not what -- >> you're shaking your head. >> it's in your book that it should be for everybody. >> guys. >> you took it out of your book. be honest. >> the truth is, in the hard cover version of romney's no apology the writes this of the plan, we can accomplish the same thing for everyone in the country, and it can be done without letting government take over health care. in the paper back version, published this year, that is edited down to this, quote, and it was done without government taking over health care. gofr romney says it was a harmless edit for space. critics see it as an edit inspired by the tea party and its opposition to obama care. and then of course there's this, on abortion, back in 2002, running for governor of left-leaning massachusetts. >> and i've been very clear on that. i will preserve and protect a woman's right to choose and devoted and dedicating to honoring my word in that regard. >> 2007, courting conservatives, running for president -- >> i will be a pro-life president. i will appoint -- just like i've been a pro-life governor. you don't have to take my word for it on this. you can look at my report as governor. on every piece of legislation i came down on the side of life. >> now governor romney says he had a genuine change of heart on the abortion question. critics have fresh evidence to suggestion the landscaping controversy he was perhaps motivated by something else. >> i'm running for office, for pete's sake. >> one advantage of a long campaign that is we get to know what makes a candidate tick, who they are, not just what he or she proposes. and the hard truth for governor romney tonight is that his own words about political calculations handed his rivals a gift, and could feed voter doubts about his sincerity. other important questions uncovered by the big republican debate. is rick perry mean-spirited? is governor romney thin-skinned? and some say herman cain has peaked. >> you get 30 seconds. 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[announcer] at conoco phillips we're helping power america's economy with cleaner affordable natural gas... more jobs, less emissions, a good answer for everyone. so, by reducing the impact of production... and protecting our land and water... i might get a job once we graduate. mary? what are you doing here? it's megan. i'm getting new insurance. marjorie, you've had a policy with us for three years. it's been five years. five years. well, progressive gives megan discounts that you guys didn't. paperless, safe driver, and i get great service. meredith, what's shakin', bacon? they'll figure it out. getting you the discounts you deserve. now, that's progressive. call or click today. ? one night, in just a span of a few minutes the republican race for the white house went from sleepy to slugfest, especially when mitt romney and rick perry took on the subject of illegal immigration. >> and governor perry, you say you've got the experience. it's like saying the college coach that's lost 40 games in a row has the speefrexperience to foto the nfl but the truth is california, i'll say it again, california and florida have both had no increase in illegal immigration and yours is up 60% over the last ten years. >> governor perry, 30 seconds to respond. >> the bottom line is, we have a federal government that has failed. there is a clear problem here. and he hit the nail on the head, he said there was a magnet of people that will hire illegals, and you are number one on that list, sir. people need to understand that. you're one of the problems, mitt. >> joining us from texas, ken herman, a columnist, here in washington, jeff zellany and political an lift, gloria borger. you are in vegas, you flew back, as gloria and i did. the point of the issue of immigration is part of it. but what struck me, and i talked to both governor romney and governor perry after at debate, watch their eyes and in the exchange, here we go. governor perry decided to play and they both have millions of dollars, both have an infrastructure for the long haul, this is getting personal and nasty. >> without a question. governor perry had pent-up anger, he's been wanting to do this for a long time, you know. he's sort of quiet during these last four debates until last night. he was getting out a lot of venom that he's been trying to express but having a hard time doing it. he fundamentally does not like mitt romney, at least in the political sense because he underestimates him and he does not think he's ready for the job. i was fascinated by the eye contact, hand movement when they touched one another like that. >> violating personal space 101. it foreshadows things to come for next two months. >> jeff, you're wrong. >> and a brief conversation, the romneys were copping off stage, i was trying to engage the governor, he chatted with governor perry for a minute or so. i was asking did you talk about that? and ann romney said you're asking about the animosity. >> sure. >> is it likely to continue, without a doubt. perry has to convince conservatives he's in for the fight. >> you don't go to a knife fight one day and say never mind the next day. this is a moment when perry went on the attack on romney and romney attacked back, as you saw in that clip. mitt romney was trying to play a game where he was above the fray, he was going to talk about barack obama, let's all of these other people fight each other. but suddenly, romney was the target. by the way, when those candidates attacked herman cain they were much nice, they embraced him first and then attacked his plan later. not so much with mitt romney. >> republican voters like him. republican voters like him. ken herman, you've known rick perry and covered rick perry longer than any of us. i want you to listen to the exchange last night. if you talk to the romney people today they'll say rick perry landed blows but this expoesd hip as mean-spirited. anderson cooper trying to get the governor to answer the question about the 14th amendment. >> let me ask a question, governor perry, the 14th amendment allows anybody a child of illegal immigrants born here is automatically an american citizen. should that change? >> let me address herman's issue -- >> i'd rather you ask the question -- answer that question mr. i understand that. you get to ask the questions and i get to answer like i want to. and herman, herman talked about -- >> that's a response. that's not an answer but go ahead. >> what did you see in governor perry last night? anything new or is this a familiar governor? >> no, it's a familiar governor. he's combative and people have asked me, is rick perry mean? and i guess the question is, which rick perry? the rick perry i've known professionally and casually for 25 years? i wouldn't say is mean. he's tough. he's aggressive. he's a cole-blooded politician and many of the best ones have in that in them. politicians are almost like regular people, and they react sometimes. is the candidate some people saw on the stage yesterday, might someone think that looked mean? yes, if you're sitting in wisconsin and you don't know much about this man and this is your first, second, third, fourth, fifth exposure to him on a debate, not only might that -- might someone like that think he looked mean but might say, having watched the previous debates who woke him up? he overcorrected for sleepwalking before and it was jarring. again, this is eye of the beholder stuff. people might say think guy's tough and like it. >> what do this people say about that? pushing him to be more aggressive? is it getting comfortable, being up on the same stage with these guys and saying okay, i'm ready? >> yeah, i think it's getting comfortable. he -- a lot of people know he's not done many debates here, he hasn't had to, he's an overwhelming favorite in his candidacies he can pick and choose what he wanted to do and he said it's not his strong suit. i think he -- in the early debates, the theory might have been, less might have been better than more, which could have had giant gaffes or mistakes and you sit it out. the time has come for him to mix it up and make for good television. >> another thing that made for interesting television was listening to herman cain try to deflect the criticism of his 9-9-9 plan by suggesting his rivals were mixing apples and oranges, and we were contributing to the fruit economy. listen to this one exchange where herman cain is saying, you're going to see a lot of analysis, maybe different liberal groups, maybe conservative groups and a lot of them are saying his 9-9-9 tax plan would hurt especially working class middle class americans. herman cain saying no don't believe any of that, just believe me. >> the thing i would encourage people to do, before they engage in this knee-jerk reaction is, read our analysis available at hermancain.com performed by fiscal associates and all of the claims made against it, it is a jobs plan, it is revenue neutral. it does not raise taxes on those that are making the least. all of those are simply not true. >> jeff if you say that the state sales tax would stay in place, that's an orange -- i wasn't -- he's very good. he's very good. did he make his case or was he too defensive? >> i don't think he made his case. we have a smoothie there. there's no doubt this is mixed. i think that his plan -- he didn't expect that he was going to get all of the scrutiny for his plan. its and a back of the envelope plan, catchy, but he sounded defensive. gloria was right before, how the other candidates reacted to him was interestinging they want his vote. he's eminently likable, the nonpolitician on stage. he's still may be able to be the beneficiary of this a lot of people were certainly turned off by the animosity at debate and he could come through from the shiny ambassador. >> this is fine with romney, so they split that. but we're going to hear from rick perry, a simple tax plan that he's intending on coming out with a flat tax, last time we heard about that steve forbes' came pan. they want something that's anti-romney, romney has a 59-point plan. >> stay tuned. >> governor perry says he'll have his in just a few days. ken, jeff, gloria, thank you. next, today's bizarre hundred for lions, tigers and bears in ohio. herman cain opens up in a revealing personal interview about surviving stage iv cancer. >> as a god-fearing man, what went through your mind? 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[ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. if your booking's not right, we'll help make it right, right away. from the price to the room to the trip you'll never roam alone. okay... uhh. the bad news, it's probably totaled. the good news is, you don't have to pay your deductible. with vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance, you got $100 off for every year of safe driving, so now your deductible is zero. the other good news ? i held on to your coffee. wow. ♪ nationwide is on your side ( laughing ) it's actually a pretty good day when you consider. that's great. will be giving away passafree copies of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. welcome back. the latest news you need to know now. ohio searches have accounted for all but one of the 51 missing animals after the man released his animals and killed himself. a monkey may have been eaten by a tiger. authorities killed moefd of the animals as found, including 18 tigers, 17 lions, 8 bears. ignoring a general strike in a crowd of 100,000 protesters, the greek parliament approved new austerity measures to avoid a default. proof that people are increasingly focus on the race for president. 5.5 million viewers tuned in for the big debate. republican presidential debate last night right here on cnn. the that brings us tonight's number, debate related. 3,981, that's page likes for herman cain's facebook page since last night's debate. after the debate last night. how does that rank herman cain when it comes to facebook fans? total fans, mr. cain still down here, 289,000, as we came on the air tonight. governor romney's the leader followed by congressman paul, bachmann, perry here. if you believe in this democracy, here's an important lesson. after the debate last night, mr. cain up, congressman paul up, governor romney up, again if you believe in this democracy, not so good news for governor perry and congresswoman bachmann after the debate last night. erin burnett "out front" coming up at the top of the hour. erin, the fun and feisty debate. >> it was a fun and feisty debate. enjoyed watching it. also the whole parlor game how do you get not just an electable but likable republican ticket? that's the holy grail. a market speculate whose might be the vp candidate and one of the people on it is bob macdonald, he's going to be our guest tonight on "out front." also tackle the issue of the flat tax. you heard rick perry talk about it today. how does it work? will it work. ? does disproportionally affect the poor or is it a tax whose time has come? >> very much looking forward to it. next, what the conditiandid body language revealed. in america, we believe in a future that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪ [ guy ] ring, ring. progresso... i love your new loaded potato with bacon. that's what we like to hear. ring, ring. progresso... ...switch our phone service? ...no, i think we're pretty happy with our phones. 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[ male announcer ] introducing the reinvented 2012 toyota camry. it's ready. are you? ♪ if you're watching last night's big republican debate one of most remarkable things that got you, the body language mitt romney reaching out to touch rick perry. >> i'll tell you what the facts are. >> rick, i'm speaking. i'm speaking. i'm speaking. >> time for you to tell the truth. >> you get 30 seconds. this is the way rules work here. i get of 60 seconds and you get 30 seconds to respond. >> you knew you had illegals working. >> are you going to keep talk organize let me finish with what i have to say? >>taining not necessarily enlightening. patty, we want to start with you. we usually start with the political folks in the block. the eyeball to eyeball contact, governor romney touching governor perry, what does it tell you about these guys? >> first of all, breaking debate ritual by facing off towards each other. actually romney going away from his own podium to reach out and strike down and point out weapon-like. really unusual. also interesting, romney looks good when he's angry. he even can smile when he's angry. that worked as an edge for him in the debates. perry doesn't look good when he's mad, his face goes downward, points again hips. >> perry had been m.i. a for a punch of debates, you saw a c combative romney what went through your mind? >> where's this guy been? this was a fun debate. this debate was a debate weave all been waiting for. we knew it was going to happen, we knew perry and romney would try to go after each other. perry tried the last couple and flubbed it. got romney into an unguarded moment i called the lawn service and told them i'm running for office for pete's sake, i can't have illegal aliens. >> it could have been payback. rick perry touched governor romney, a pat on the back, it was an attaboy. when you see this play out between candidates you're not a great pollster, you do focus groups, what does it tell you? >> tell well it tells you that, look, romney had one objective, and that was to say, i'm tough and i can hold my own against anybody. he took on gingrich, he took on governor perry, he took an santorum, everybody that was on the stage. he had a tactical objective and that was in part controlling everybody and he did it well. >> you think he did it well. another big test, and patti, herman cain, he's run for office before but never held elective office and on national stage for the first time, rises in the polls and 9-9-9 plan comes unattack. you see it his eyes. he starts to blink a lot. you see him looking from side to side, eyes start blinking. what does that tell you what herman cain is thinking? its called the nixon effect for nixon's eye behavior during the watergate testimony. it's a sign of high anxiety. cain doesn't do well when he's silent, he dub do well in the great posture when candidates take on when somebody's saying soldier negative against him. he doesn't have that down yet. >> were you impressed or did you sense jitters? i was hoping that went on longer. just waiting to see if he could continue to defend it? >> you know, you could tell that he was starting to get his dander up, getting frustrated. herman's a guy who smiles through combat. survived stage herman smiles through combat and survived stage 4 cancer. that's why i feel he's still surviving, because he's a happy warrior. >> he is a happy warrior. were you impressed? >> last night, he did one thing exceptionally well. he talked to voters about human emotions on something they can relate to. he didn't do well on 9-9-9 but did well on the other part of the debate. >> i want us to look at this texas governor. he has this stance to him. it's texas. george w. bush had a bit of a swagger. >> he has this wide stance, his chest is puffed out a bit. i'm hoping we can show it to you. what does it show you. he's trying to exude confidence. is it stiffness or confidence? >> there is too much stiffness. you can tell he's been coached to have more gesture, except most is not gravity defined, they're not upwards, they go downward. stiff here, needs to bring up his gestures here. >> we will let you go. when we come back, we'll talk to you about politics. we'll have another debate. next, today's developments on the campaign pole including rick perry's swat at politicians. who might he be thinking of? 4g-- the next evolution in wireless technology. with advanced power, the verizon 4g lte network makes your business run faster: smartphones, laptops, tablets, mobile hotspots. but not all 4g is created equal. among the major carriers, only verizon's 4g network is 100% lte, the gold standard of wireless technology. and while other carriers may have limited lte coverage, verizon is the largest lte network in america and ever-growing. with verizon 4g lte, you can invent new ways to upgrade your business using real-time group meetings from remote locations, video conferencing, mobile credit-card payments, lightning-fast downloads, and access to thousands of business apps. plus, verizon has the largest selection of 4g lte devices and the most 4g lte coverage for your business. all on america's fastest, most reliable 4g network. no wonder more businesses choose verizon wireless than any other wireless carrier. verizon. delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it. ♪ [ male announcer ] with 50 horsepower, dual overhead cams and fierce acceleration, the gator xuv 825i will shatter your expectations. ♪ and so no one gets left behind, check out our all-new, affordable xuv 550s at johndeere.com/gator. i talked to governor perry on his way off the debate stage yesterday. he said it was a lot of fun and had a good time. today, he tried to build momentum with tea parties who may have left after a shaky start. >> tea partiers will turn washington inside-out. let me share with you one thing, i am not the candidate of the establishment. you won't hear a lot of shape shifting nuance from me. >> still with us to dissect the shape shifting nuances of the republican race, eric erickson and peter hort. there were a lot of questions about governor perry, i'm sure if he had been flat again, the right blogosphere would be saying, my god. some say maybe he overdid it, some say he was a little too mean but showed he was ready to fight. >> last night, he said he didn't have an economic plan, a lot of buzz it will be a flat tax, it will be ready later this week. he has to focus on energy and jobs and media spotlight favorable towards his ideas and less focused on how awful a debater he's been. >> does it matter how awful a e debater you are? you're the democrat in the room here. and i have to think that democratic president's pretty vulnerable. i need somebody a year from now that can hold his own in a debate. >> yes. people knew nothing about rick perry and all flocked to him. like anything else, if your first exposure is a bad exposure, you rush away. he will have a period of time over december to re-establish that. he's not coming from a neutral position. a lot of people have moved him to the negative side and will be a challenge for him. >> the romney campaign. they claimed they did fine in the debate. didn't love every moment and a few missteps. the biggest challenge is you're not going to be perfect in every debate. they put up a web video, they're trying to make the point maybe governor perry had a decent night but still a lousy debate. >> was it before he was before the social programs from the standpoint of the was for. >> do or die for him. >> it's not whether or not we're going to have this policy or that policy. >> we don't need any plan -- >> perry really did throw up all over himself in the debate. >> the fact is americans understand faith. >> rick perry plunging in the polls, rolling the dice. >> if he would just calm down. he seem very agitated. >> i guess on the one hand you could say that's fun or piling on. my question for the romney campaign today is why not something positive? why do you think you need to beat up on this guy? am i wrong? >> i really think last night was the first debate we've had so far, the seventh or eighth debate mitt romney came out of the debate hurt. this was the first debate there was a pile-on. he had an undwauguarded moment santorum and ginge grim saying -- gingrich and saying about illegals. he didn't do terrible but didn't come out of it without a little flesh wound. >> how do you escape with a steve flesch wound in this environment, herman cain is doing so well, people don't like politicians. if you're viewed as a politician a chameleon, or change with the times, maybe it's an honest-to-goodness change of heart on such an emotional issue. and then you can't have illegal immigrants working for you because i'm running for office. how do you escape that? >> i don't think you do. he will have to face it in the southern primaries and a lot of the other primaries. the problem is people are trying to get a sense of his mettle, trying to get a sense of who he is. at this stage, he has to be beyond that patrician politician, that person that seems to have the perfect smile. that's what he's trying to establish. >> people are questioning the policies of herman cain, whether he's presidential or ready to be commander in chief. one thing you cannot question is his personal courage. listen to this exchange about stage 4 cancer? >> what goes through your mind when you have such a life-threatening thing, where the odds are you're not going to make it. >> right. >> as a god fearing man, what went through your mind? >> what went through my mind

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