breaking all of the rules. comes to a state that wrote the book on election cliffhangers. here in florida. >> that's how important florida is. >> only one thing is certain in this contest. expect the unexpected. >> three candidates who have won three primaries. >> you're going to have to make a decision. which of the three should become the nominee. i think you know the answer. >> tonight, the candidates together in jacksonville, florida. newt gingrich, the south carolina winner. hoping to capitalize on his recent victory and his strong record in debates. >> not that i am a good debater. it's that i articulate the deepest held values of the american people. >> mitt romney, the new hampshire winner. trying to broaden his appeal and reclaim the title of front-runner. >> we're not choosing a talk show host. we're choosing the person who should be the leader of the free world. >> rick santorum, the iowa winner. looking for a new burst of momentum after his upset in the heartland. >> there was one race that was in nobody's backyard, and we won that race. >> ron paul, still in search of a win. a fierce competitor with a die-hard following. >> we have the determination, and we will win this with prosperity. >> now, the 2012 republican in florida. it's the biggest battleground so far, and this could be the most important debate yet. from the university of north florida in jacksonville, this is the florida republican presidential debate. tonight, the four republican candidates are here to tell us white they're the most qualified to take on president barack obama. i'm wolf blitzer. we want to welcome our viewers around the united states and around the world. we also want to thank the republican party of florida and the hispanic leadership network. members are here in the audience with us, and some of them will have a chance to question the candidates. in addition, our sister network, cnn in espanol, is standing by in miami with members of the hispanic leadership network who will also have a chance to question the candidates. viewers can send us questions online, on twitter, make sure to include the hash tag cnn debate. on facebook at facebook.com/cnnp facebook.com/cnnpolitics, and ov on cnnpolitics.com. it's now time to welcome the 2012 republican presidential contenders. joining us on stage, texas congressman ron paul. former massachusetts governor, mitt romney. the former speaker of the house, newt gingrich. and the former u.s. senator from pennsylvania, rick santorum. ladies and gentlemen, the republican candidates for president of the united states. >> ladies and gentlemen, please rise for our national anthem, performed by the university of north florida chamber singers. ♪ o say, can you see by the dawn's early light ♪ ♪ what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming ♪ ♪ whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight ♪ ♪ o'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming ♪ ♪ and the rockets' red glare the bombs bursting in air ♪ ♪ gave proof through the night that our flag was still there ♪ ♪ oh, say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave ♪ ♪ o'er the land of the free ♪ ♪ and the home of the brave ♪ candidates, please take your podiums while i tell you more about how the debate will work tonight. i'll be the moderator, and as i mentioned, our partners from the republican party of florida and the hispanic leadership network will ask questions. i'll follow up and try to guide the discussion. i'll try to make each of you gets your fair share of questions. i'll have one minute to answer, 30 seconds for follow-ups and rebuttals. now let's have the candidates introduce themselves to florida voters. keep it short, here is an example. i'm wolf blitzer and i'm thrilled to be here on the campus of the university of north florida in jacksonville. senator santorum, let's begin with you. >> i'm rick santorum and i'm thrilled to be here on the campus of north florida. and i'm especially thrilled because i'm here with a north florida resident who lives right down the beach from jacksonville, my mom, who is 93 years old, is with me here tonight. i better just stop right there. >> i'm newt gingrich from the neighboring state of georgia. i'm delighted to be in jacksonville, which will be the site of the next nuclear aircraft carrier battle group. >> i'm mitt romney, and i'm pleased to be here with my wife and my oldest son tag romney. we're the parents of five sons, and it's great to be back in jacksonville. thank you. >> i'm ron paul. i'm a congressman from texas, 12 terms. i am the champion of a sound monetary system, a gold standard as it is under the constitution. and a foreign policy based on strength, which rejection the notion that we should be the policemen of the world and be a nation builder. >> all right, let's start with the question from the audience. >> hello. can you tell me what specific actions you'll take to address the possible conflicts of immigration while preserving the right of those who plan to immigrate legally. >> let's take that question, and in the course of that question, express your opinion on what we heard from governor romney that self deportation or immigrants leaving the country voluntarily is a possible solution? >> the possible solution is, i agree with governor romney. the bottom line is we need to enforce the laws in this country. we're a country of law. people come to this country, my grandfather came to this country because he wanted to come to a country that respected him. and a country that respects you is a country that lives by the laws that they have. and the first act when you come to this country is to disabow a law. it's not a particularly welcome way to enter the country. what i have said from the very beginning, we have to have a country that not only do you respect the law when you come here, you respect the law when you stay here. and people who come to the country illegally have broken the law repeatedly. unless you're here on a trust fund, you have been working illeg illegally. you have probably stolen someone's social security number illegal. it's not one thing you have done wrong, you have done a lot of things wrong. as a result of that, i believe people should not be able to stay here. i think we need to enforce the law at the border, secure the border. secondly, we have to have employer enforcement, and not only employer sanctions but people who are found to be working here illegally, they need to be deported. that's, again, the principle of having a rule of law and living by it. i am very much in favor of immigration. my dad came to this country, and i'mtion who believes that we need immigration. we're not replacing ourselves. we need not only immigration to keep our population going, but we need immigration because immigrants bring a spvitality a a love of the country that infuses the country with great energy. i support legal immigration, but we need to enforce the law, and if you don't create an opportunity for people to work, they will leave because they can't afford to stay here. >> speaker gingrich, you have suggested that self-deportation is an obama level fantasy. why? >> first of all, we should control the border, which i have pledged to do. you should fex legal immigration so people can come and go easily, more easily than doing it illegally. you should make deportation easier, so the ms-16 gang members, it should be quick. we should have a guest worker program, run by american express or visa card, and stronger penalties at that point because you can val dade it. i believe the self-deportation will occur if you're single, have only been here a short time. there are 348 millions of people who file for a guest worker program and might or might not come back. the people i have singled out are people who have bing here a long time, who are married, who may have children and grandchildren, and i would suggest that grandmothers or grand fathers aren't likely to self-deport. thaen you have a question. i offer a citizen panel to review whether or not someone who has been here a long time, who had family, sxoo who had an american family willing to sponsor them, should be allowed to get residency but not citizenship so they could stay within the law but wouldn't have a chance of becoming a citizen unless they come back home. i don't think grandmothers and grandfathers will self deport. >> governor romney, the one time they experimented with self-deportation, only a handful left. what makes you think it would work? >> you heard the last two speakers say they support the concept. it's simply this, for those who come into the country legally, they would be given an identification card that point out they're able to work here, and you have the e-verify system so employers can determine who is legally here. and if employers hire someone without a card, they would be severely sanctioned. if you do that, people who come here illegally won't be able to find work and over time, those people would tend to leave the country or self-deport. i don't think anyone is interested in rounding up people or 11 million americans in america. isn't that unfair to the 11 million who are here and have raised children here? i think it's important to remember that there are three groups of people that are of concern to us. one are those who have come here illegally. 11 million. the second group is people who have been brought over by coyotes and who are in many cases abused by virtue of coming into the country illegally. and the third are the 4 million to 5 million people waiting at home in their own nations trying to get here lyegally. they have family members here asking them to come here, grandparents and uncles and auntsuric those are the people we have a responsibility for. and the second group who are being abused, we have a responsibility to them. let's stop illegal immigration. >> congressman paul, you're from texas. the state with the longest border with mexico. is this a viable option, what we just heard? >> to talk about it, i don't see it as being very practical. i think it's a much bigger problem. you can't deal with immigration without dealing with the economy. the weakened economy, the more resentment there is when illee immigrants come in. we're usually looking for wor r workers. a lot of businesses are looking for workers and they don't have them. they're not as well trained here. also, the way we're handling the borders is hurting our economy because the business people, you know, visitors have a hard time coming in. we don't have a well managed border, so i think we need more resources, and i think most of the other candidates would agree we need more resources, but where are the resources going to come from? i have a suggestion. i think we spend way too much time worrying uchbt the border between afghanistan and pakistan. use some of those resources on our own border. >> speicher gingrich, you had an ad that you pulled in which you described romney as the most anti-immigrant candidate. why did you do that? >> why would i describe him that way? in the original conversations about deportation, the position i took that he attacked ferociously, is that grand moerlths and grand fathers aren't going to be successfully deported. we as a nation are not going to walk into some family. by the way, they're going to walk into a church. we're not going to grab the grandmother in and kick them out. i think you have to be realistic in your indignation. i want to control the border. i want english to be the official language of government. i want us to have a lot of things. i am prepared to be very tough and very bold, but i'm also prepared to be realistic because i had to pass legislation in waulg, and i don't believe an unrealistic promise is going to get through, but i believe if there's some level of humanity for people who have been here a long time, we can pass legislation that will decisively reduce elegality and mean the people here in america are here legally. >> is he still the most anti-immigrant candidate? >> of the four of us, yes. >> go ahead, governor. >> that's simply inexcusive. and marco rubio came to my defense and said it was inproement. i'm not anti-immigrant. my father was born in mexico. my wife's father was born in wales. they came to this country. the term i'm anti-immigrant is repulsive. don't use a term like that. to say force into u.s. law, to protect or borders, to expand immigration, that that is somehow anti-immigrant is the over the top rhetoric that has characterized american politics too long. i'm glad marco rubio called you out on it, i'm glad you withdrew it, and i think you should apologize. it doesn't justify labeling people with highly charged epithets. >> i'll give you an opportunity to self-describe. you tell me what language you would use to describe somebody who thinks that deporting a grandmother or grandfather from their family, tell me your language. i'm happy for you to explain what language you would use. >> i think i described following the law as it exists in this country, which is to say i'm not going around and rounding people up and deporting them. people who come here legally get a work perment. people who don't, don't get a work permit. those who don't get work will tend to self-deport. nam not going to find grandmothers and take them out of their homes. those are your words, not my words. that suggests to people that if you're not willing to chemopeople here who violated the law, you're anti-immigrant. i'm pro immigrant. i want people to come to america with skill and vitality and vibrance. i want them to come legally. there are grandmother on the other side of the border who are waiting to come here legally. i want them to come here, too, not just those who are already here. >> so we have gone from your washington attack when i first proposed it. you said it was outrageous to you're accepting the fact that a family is going to take care of their grandmother or grandfather. the idea you're going to push them out by saying they can't get a job, i think the grandmother is still going to be here. all i want to do is allow the grandmother to be here illegally with some rights to have residency but not citizenship so that he or she can finish their life with dignity within the law. >> there are not 11 million -- there are not -- our problem is not 11 million grandmothers. our problem is -- [ applause ] our problem is 11 million people getting jobs, many americans, legal immigrants would like to have. school kids in schools, districts having a hard time paying for. people getting free health care because we're required to get the health care and the concern is, people who want to come here legally, let's stop illegal immigration. >> the rhetoric on immigration, governor, has been intense, as you know. as all four of you know, and anyone who watches television knows. you had an ad running saying that gingrich called spanish, quote, the language of the ghetto. what did you mean by that? >> i didn't see the ad. i don't get to see all of the ads. did he say that? >> what i said is we want everyone to learn english. i didn't use the word spanish. we don't juan anyone trapped in a situation where they can't get a commercial drive, they can't rise, and every parent of every ethnic group, and there are 94 languages spoken. 94 languages, and that's why i think english should be the official language of government, and every young american should learn english, and no one should be trapped in a situation where they can't go out and get a job and can't go out and work. i would say as much as governor romney doesn't like my use of language, i found his use of language equally offensive. >> i'd like -- i doubt that's my ad, but we'll take a look and find out. there are a bunch of ads out there organized by the people, but i think our position on english in our schools and our nation is the same, which i believe english should be the official language of the united states, as it is. i also believe in our schools, we should teach kids in english. when i was governor, i fought for, actually, before i was governor, i fought for during my election, to have english emersion in the schools. kids in this country should learn english to have all of the jobs and opportunities. >> i want to bring congressman paul and senator santorum into this. let's take this to juan carlos lopez. he has a guest there. >> we're at the viewing party for the hispanic leadership network. it really is a party. they're holding their yearly conference, and i'm joined by riquell rodriguez. she has a question for the candidates. >> yes, good evening. the u.s. has been largely away in its foreign and trade policy with latin america. in the meantime, iran and china have been increasing their influence over and involvement in latin america to the leftist and left-leaning government. what would each of you do as president to more deeply engage in latin america and more importantly too, support the government and political parties to support democracy and free markets? >> congressman paul? >> i think free trade is the answer. it's an answer to a lot of conflicts around the world, so i'm always promoting free trade. you might add cuba, too. we would be a lot better off trading with cuba. >> as far as us having an obication, a military or financial obligation that goes down and dockates to them what government they should have, i don't like that idea. i would work with the people, encourage free trade, and try to set a standard here where countries in central america or south america or anyplace in the world would want to emulate us and set the standard that we have. unfortunately, sometimes we slip up on our standards and we go around the world and we try to force ourselves on others. i don't think the nations in south america and central america necessarily want us to come down there and dictate which government they should have. and yet i believe with friendship and trade, you can have a lot of influence, and i strongly believe that with time, we have friendship and trade with cuba. >> senator santorum, are you with congressman paul? >> no, i'm not with congressman paul, and i'm not with barack obama on this issue. our policy in central and south america has been abysmal. the way we have treated in particular countries like honduras, honduras was stood up to the rule of law, which threw out a would-be dictator who was using the chavez rule book to run for election, and the united states government, instead of standing behind the pro democracy, the people in the parliament, in the supreme court who tried to enforce the constitution of honduras, instead of siding with them, the democrats, president obama sided with two other people in central america. chavez and castro and obama sided against the people of honduras. this is a consistent policy of siding with the leftists. siding with the marxists, siding with those who don't support democracy. not standing up for our friends in colombia. those who want to engage and support america, want to be great trading partners and great allies for our country. to be able to form that kind of bond that is so essential in our own hemisphere. the european union understood how important it was for diverse people to come together in an economic unit. we not only have to come together as an economic unit, but the threat of terrorism, the threat of iran in venezuela and other places and cuba and nicaragua, the threat of radical islam growing in that region is as important -- it's absolutely important for us to have a president that understands the threat and understands the solution is closer tied, i will visit that area of the world repeatedly to solidify the ties. >> let me let congressman paul quickly respond. >> the senator mentioned standing up for some of these nations, but he doesn't define it, but standing up for nations like this usually means that we impose ourselves, go and keep the dictators, undermine governments, also sending them a lot of money. it doesn't work. most of the time, it backfires, they resent us. we can achieve what he wants in a different way than us using the bully attitude that you will do it our way. this is not -- besides, where are you going to get the troops and the money because you're talking about force. and i know of a much better way than using force to get along with people. >> i don't know what answer congressman paul was listening to. he obviously wasn't listening to my answer. what i talked about is building strong economic relationships, strong national security relationships. no one is talking about force. no one is talking about going into cuba or venezuela. we're taking about the other countries in the region which are being influenced greatly by those countries, the are tending and moving toward those militant socialists. instead of the united states, why? because we have ignored them. you have a president of the united states that held a col colombian free trade agreement, who is working against us with the narco terrorists, and what did we do? for political domestic political purposes, the president of the united states sided with organized labor and the environmental grubs and held colombia out to dry for three years. >> we're going to come back to this, come back to cuba as well. and the stand by for that. we did double check just now, governor. the ad we talked about where i quoted you as saying that speaker gingrich called spanish the language of the ghetto. it was one of your ads. it's running here in florida on the radio. at the end, you say i'm mitt romney and i approve this ad. it is here. >> let me ask a question. let me ask the speaker a question. did you say what the ad says or not? >> i don't know. it's taken totally out of context. >> okay. >> i didn't say it about spanish. i said in general about all languages. it is better for children to learn english in general, period. >> let's take a look at what he said. >> we have a very important subject, housing. not only here in florida, foreclosure is really bad, but all over the country. and a lot of people are wondering if the federal government contributed to the o housing collapse in recent years. we got a question that came into us, and let me put it up there, and i'll read it to you. how would you phase out fannie mae and freddie mac. does the private mortgage industry need additional regulation? >> well, i think you know that fannie mae and freddie mac were a big part of why we have the housing crisis and the nation we have. and we have had this discussion before. speaker gingrich was hired by freddie mac to promote them. to influence other people throughout washington, encouraging them to not dismantle these two entities, i think it was an enormous mistake. we should have had a whistle blower and not a horn tooter. these things are a disaster, a crisis. he should have been telling the american people that these entities were causing a housing bubble that would cause a collapse that we have seen in florida and around the country. are they a problem today? absolutely. they're offering mortgages again to people who can't create them, who are creating another housing bubble. the right course for our housing industry is to get people back to work so they can buy homes again. we have 9.9% unemployment in florida. it's unthinkable. 18% real unemployment here. get people back to work, get the homes, get the foreclosures out of the system. let people get into homes, rent properties if necessary and get the housing industry growing again. >> speaker gingrich? >> you start by saying florida is one of the two or three most hard hit states on foreclosures. how many of you know somebody who has had a house forclosed. raise your hand. okay, the governor has cheerfully, the governor has been attacking me inaccurately, and he knows it. the contracts we released said i would do no concelting, no lobbying. none. but there's a more interesting story. we began digging in after monday night because i had enough. we discovered to our shock that governor romney owns shares of fannie mae and freddie mac. he may a million dollars off selling some of that. governor romney has an investment in goldman sachs which today is foreclosing on floridians. maybe he should tell us how much money he's made off how many hou households foreclosed on by his investments. let's be clear on that. >> first of all, my investments are not made by me. my investments for the last ten years have been in a blind trust, managed by a trustee. secondly, the investments they made, we learned about this as we made our disclosure, have been in mutual funds and bonds. i don't own stocks in freddie mac or fannie mae. they're mutual funds, and mr. speaker, i know that sound like an enormous revelation, but have you checked your own investments. you also invest in fannie mae and freddie mac. >> let me have more time. let me just continue. there's a big difference between buying like u.s. savings bonds and getting a return. that's not taking money out of the united states. that's loaning money to the united states. and what my trustee did is he loaned money to fannie mae and freddie mac. and they got paid interest, of course, just like if you buy u.s. savings bonds. what the speaker did was to work as a spokesman to promote fannie mae and freddie mac, to protect them from the people that wanted to thak them down. he got paid $1.6 million to do that. he said his first contract indicated there would be mono lobbying. the second didn't have that taken out of it. you have to ask yourself, why was that? what he was doing was clearly promoting fannie mae and freddie mac, in this case, freddie mac, to the tune of $1.6 million. that's why we're in the case we're in. >> the governor wasn't aware of the ad he was running. he's not aware of the investments in his name. and to compare my investments with his is like comparing a tiny mouse with a giant elephant. the fact is there's a very substantial question. you didn't give any instructions to say, gee, let's not do this or let's not do that. you're very quick to draw the widest possible exaggeration. the fact is that the only time i ever spoke to the congress about this issue was in july of 2008, the "new york times" reported it. i told republicans in the house, vote no. do not give them any money. they need to be reformed. and to answer the question earlier, i would break each of them up into five or six separate units and over a five-year period i would wean them from all federal sponsorship. >> let me bring congressman paul and then senator santorum. a follow-up to you, but specifically, it seems like they both acknowledge they both made money from fanny and freddie. should they return the money? >> that subject really doesn't interest me a whole lot. >> but the question does. the question is what are we going to do about fannie mae and freddie mac. it should have been auctions off after the crash came. but maybe it's my physician background, but i think an ounce of prevention is what we ought to talk about so we quit doing this. we know how the problem came about. extensive credit, interest rates too low too long. community reinvestment action, which is affirmative action telling banks they have to make these rifrky loans. at the same time, there was a line of credit which allowed fannie mae and freddie mac to, you know, make more money. and it was -- it was assumed they would always be protected. now, you can't argue, i have talked a long time about cutting off the credit from the fed. i was trying to prevent this. also y opposed community reinvestment act as well as i had legislation ten years before the bus came to remove that line of credit to the treasury. >> senator santorum? >> i would say in answer to the question, as i mentioned last debate, in 2006, i went and authored a letter with 24 other senators asking for major reform of fannie and freddie, warning of a bubble in the housing market. we tried to get a reform and we couldn't do it. it is to gradually degreacrease amount of mortgages financed, underwritten by fannie and freddy. keep reducing them until we get rid of fannie and freddie. these two gentleman who are out distracting us by playing petty politics. can we set aside that newt was a member of congress and he advised companies, and that's not the worst thing in the world, and mitt romney is a wealthy guy because he worked hard. leave that alone and focus on the issues. >> we're going to take a quick break. we have a lot more to discuss. coming um, the debate questions go to space. the final frontier. stay with us. ♪ ( whirring and crackling sounds ) man: assembly lines that fix themselves. the most innovative companies are doing things they never could before, by building on the cisco intelligent network. but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today. we're continuing the debate here in jacksonville, florida. let's get to the issue of transparency. voters want to know about you four gentlemen as possible before you vote. tax returns. let me bring this to speaker gingrich. earlier this week, you said governor romney, after he released his taxes, you said that you were satisfied with the level of transparency of his personal finances when it comes to this. i just want to reiterate and ask you, are you satisfied right now with the level of transparency as far as his personal finances? >> wolf, you and i have a great relationship, goes back a long way. i'm with him. this is a nonsense question. look. how about -- how about if the four of us agree for the rest of the evening, we're going to talk about issues -- >> mr. speaker, you made an issue of this, this week, when you said that he lives in a world of swiss bank and cayman island bank accounts. i didn't say that. you did. >> i'm perfectly happy to say that on a tv interview. this is a national debate, where you have a chance to get the four of us to talk about -- >> if you make a serious accusation against governor romney like that, you need to explain that. >> you want to try again? i mean -- >> wouldn't it be nice if people didn't make accusations somewhere else that they weren't willing to defend here? >> okay. all right. given that -- given that standard, mitt, i did say, i thought it was all unusual. i don't know of any american president that had a swiss bank account. i'd be glad for you to explain that sort of thing. >> i will. i'll say it again. i have a trustee that manages my investments in a blind trust. that was so that i would avoid any conflicts of interest. he indicated last week, he said that he wanted to diversify the investments that i had and for awhile he had money in a swiss account, reported in the u.s., full taxes paid on it. u.s. taxes. there's nothing wrong with that. i know there may be some who try to make a deal of that, as you have. but look, i think it's important for people to make sure that we don't castigate individuals who have been successful and try to suggest there's something wrong with being successful and having investments and having a return on those. speaker, you indicated that somehow i don't earn that money. i have earned the money that i have. i didn't inherit it. i take risks. i make investments. those investments lead to jobs being created in america. i'm proud of being successful. i'm proud of being in the free enterprise system. that creates jobs for other people. i'm not going to run from that. i'm proud of the taxes i pay. my taxes plus my charitable contributions, this year, 2011, will be about 40%. so, look. let's put behind this idea of attacking me because of my money and let's get republicans to say, you know what, what you've accomplished in your life shouldn't be seen as a detriment but an asset to help america. >> mr. speaker, i'm ready to move on, if you are. >> i'm happy to or simply say, you know, it would be nice if you had the same standard for other people that you would like apply to you and didn't enter into personal attacks about personal activities which are factually wrong. so i would like to have a truce with you, but it's a two-way truce. >> i'm happy on any occasion to describe the things that i believe, with regards to the speaker's background. we will probably get a chance to do that as time goes on. >> mr. speaker, explain why you think, the money that he made over these many years, recent years, under your tax -- hold on, under your tax plan, we're talking about taxes right now, this is substance. under your proposed tax plan, he would pay zero taxes. explain that. >> depend on whether the particular kind of payments he made were counted as capital gains or a regular income. even as regular income, he would pay about the same. this is where i'm the opposite of obama. i believe we need to have somebody who fights for hard working taxpayers. my interest is in reducing everybody's tax here to 15%, not trying to raise his. i proposed an alternative flat tax. you know, i have proposed an alternative flat tax that you can either keep the current system, this is what they do in hong kong. keep the current system or have a single page. i earned this amount, i have this number of dependents, here is 15%. my goal is to shrink the government to fit the revenue, not to raise the revenue to catch up with the government. and i'd be happy -- i would be happy to have the mitt romney flat tax for every american to pay of that rate and i haven't complained about the rate he pays. >> senator santorum, most of the polls, almost all of the polls want the wealthiest americans to pay more in taxes in order to balance the budget. why are they wrong, in your opinion? >> because we need to have as much money funneling through this economy as possible. and the people who have resources and wealth, we want them to deploy that wealth in the most productive way possible. when you increase tax rates and make things more expensive to do, the rate of return is not as profitable, they tend to do things like investing in nontaxable instruments. and other things that don't employ people. i believe we need to reduce the taxes. i don't put the top rate as much as these guys do. i don't believe in a flat tax. ronald reagan had a rate of 28%, if it's good enough to him, it's good enough for me. i believe in a simplified tax code with five deductions and focus on simplify. i disagree with newt on this. i don't believe in a zero capital gains tax rate. i don't think you need to get to zero to make sure there's an efficient deployment of capital. if you get to zero, then, in fact, guys like mitt romney, who, again, i wish i made as much money as mitt romney, but -- but you know, he wouldn't probably pay much at all in taxes and i think that as long as the tax is not one that deters a proper investment to be able to deploy capital and to get jobs created, then lower rates are better than zero when it comes to the issue of capital gains. >> are you with ronald reagan as far as the tax rates, as senator santorum suggested, congressman paul? >> he taxed too much. my goal is to get rid of the 16th amendment. and the only way you can do that -- the only way you can do that is not run a welfare system and a warfare system in policing the world. but i do want to address this subject about taxing the rich. that is not a solution. but i understand and really empathize with the people who talk about the 99 and the 1. but there's a characteristic about what happens when you destroy a currency. there is a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. and this has been going on for 40 years. so, the middle class is shrinking. they are getting poorer and losing their jobs and houses. but wall street isn't getting poorer. and they are the ones who are getting the bailout. so, we have to address the bailout and the system that favors a certain group of another group. if you don't have sound money and if you have a welfare state, no matter whether the welfare state is designed to help the poor, the welfare system helps the wealthy. and there has been this transfer of wealth. so, if we could stop all of these transfers to the wealthy class, but the solution isn't to tax the wealthy. if you give an honest product and customers buy that product, you deserve to keep that money and earn that money. but there's a big difference between those who earn money and those who rip us off through the government and the monetary system. >> congressman paul, you're a physician. you're 76 years old. you would be the oldest president of the united states, if you were elected. are you prepared to release your medical records so voters out there know what your health is? >> oh, obviously, because it's about one page, if even that long. but -- but i'm willing to -- i'm willing to challenge any of these gentlemen up here to a 25-mile bike ride any time of the day in the heat of texas. and, you know, you know, that subject has come up and sometimes in fun but sometimes not in fun. but you know, there are laws against age discrimination, so, if you push this too much, you better be careful. >> i raise the question because you remember four years ago, the same question came up with john mccain and he released his records, finally, i remember dr. sanjay gupta spent hours reviewing those records. let me ask all of you. are you ready to release medical records? >> happy to do so. >> i'm confident that dr. paul is quite ready to serve if he's elected. watching him campaign -- he's in great shape. >> all right, another question from the audience. i look forward to seeing your medical records. go ahead. let's take a question right now, please introduce yourself, as well. >> good evening, my name is matthew bathel. my question is, what would your plan be for the future of manned space flight and nasa? >> let me go to governor romney on this one. an important issue, especially in florida where a lot of people have lost their jobs as a result of the decline of the space program. yesterday speaker gingrich outlined a pretty long plan on what to do about it and he said that by the end of his second term, if he was elected president, there would be a permanent base on the moon. good idea? >> that's an enormous expense and right now i want to be spending money here. of course the space coast has been badly hurt and i believe in a very vibrant and strong space program. to define the mission for our space program, i'd like to bring in the top professors that relate to space areas, top people from industry. i want to make sure what we're doing in space translates into commercial products. bring in top military products on space needs. and finally, of course, people from the administration, if i have an administration. i would like to talk about options and cost. i would like corporate america as well as the defense network and others to come together in a partnership basis to create a plan that will keep our space program thriving and growing. i believe in a manned space program. i'd like to see if they believe in the same thing. i'm not looking for a colony on the moon. i think the cost of that would be in the hundreds of billions if not trillions. i would rather rebuild housing here in the u.s. >> i want the speaker to weigh in, as well. this question is related. we got it from twitter. speaker gingrich, how do you plan to create a base on the moon while keeping taxes down in eight years? >> i think -- look, that's a great question. you start with a question, do you really believe nasa in its current form is the most effective way of leverages investment in space? we are have a bure aaucracy tha has managed to mismanage the program so well, that we in fact, have no lift vehicle. you have to wonder, what is the washington office of nasa do? does it sit around and think space? does it contemplate that some day we could have a rocket? my point in the speech i made yesterday, which is on c-span, i would love to have all of you look at it, having looked at space issues since the late 1950s when missiles and rockets was a separate magazine and working with nasa and others. i believe by the use of prizes, by the use of incentives, opening up the space port so that it is available on a ready basis for commercial flight, by using common sense, for example, the atlas 5 could be fixed into a manned-capable vehicle so you didn't have to rely on a russian launch or a chinese launch. there are many things you can do to leverage accelerating the development of space. lindbergh flew to paris for a $25,000 prize. if we had a handful of serious prizes, you would see an extraordinary number of people out there trying to get to the moon first in order to build that, and i would like to have an american on the moon before the chinese get there. >> senator santorum? >> i believe america's a frontier nation. and obviously the frontier that we're talking about is the next one, which is space. and that we need to inspire. one of the big problems we have in our country today is that young people are not getting involved in math and science and not dreaming big dreams. nasa, or the space program or space is important. nasa is one component that our space defense is another area. i think both of which are important. i agree we need to bring good minds and the private sector much more involved in nasa than the government bureaucracy that we have. let's just be honest. we run a $1.2 trillion deficit right now. 40 cents of every dollar promised. to go out there promise new programs and big ideas, that's a great thing to maybe get votes. but it is not a responsible thing. when you have to go out and say that we have to start cutting programs, not talking about how to grow them. we're going to cut programs. we're going to spend less money every year, every year, year to year to year, the federal government, amount of spending will go down for four years until we get a balanced budget and you can't do that by grand schemes, whether it's the space program or the speaker's social security program. which will create a brand new social security entitlement. those are things that sound good and maybe make big promises to people, but we've got to be responsible in the way we allocate our resources. >> we're going to get to that in a moment. but congressman paul, texas, space program, very important there, as well. where do you stand on this? >> well, i don't think we should go to the moon. i think we maybe should send some politicians up there sometimes. but -- i -- i went into the air force in 1962 and studied aerospace medicine. had a daydream of becoming the first physician into space. that didn't occur. but i see space, the amount of the money we spend on space, the only part that i would vote for is for national defense purposes. not to explore the moon and go to mars. i think that's fantastic. i love those ideas. but i also don't like the idea of building government business partnerships. if we had a healthy economy and had more bill gates and more warren buffetts, the money would be there. it should be privatized and people that work in the industry, if you had that, there would be jobs in aerospace. i just think that we don't need a bigger, a newer program, when you think of the people -- i mean -- health care, something else deserves a lot more priority than going to the moon. so, i -- i would be very reluctant, but space technology should be followed up to some degree for national defense purposes but not just for the fun of it and, you know, for, you know, for scientific -- >> before we leave this, i want speaker gingrich to clarify what you said yesterday in that speech, you delivered on space. you said that you would support a lunar colony or lunar base and that if 13,000 americans were living there, they would be able to apply for u.s. statehood from the moon. >> i was meeting rick's desire for grandiose ideas. but -- >> pretty grandiose idea. >> let me make just two points about this. it is really important to go back and look at what john f. kennedy said in may of 1961 when he said, "we will go to the moon in this decade." no american had orbited the earth. the technology didn't exist. and a generation of young people went into science and engineering and technology and they were tremendously excited. and they had a future. i actually agree with dr. paul. the program i envision would probably end up being 90% private sector. but based on a desire to change the government rules and change the government regulations to get nasa out of the business of trying to run rockets and to create a system where it is easy for private sector people to be engaged. i want to see us move from one launch occasionally to six or seven a day because so many private enterprises say, we're prepared to do it. i do not want to be the country that having gotten to the moon first, turned around, said, it doesn't really matter, let the chinese dominate space, what do we care? i think that is a path of national decline and i am for america being a great country, not a country in decline. >> we're going to move on. go ahead, governor romney. >> i spent 25 years in business. if i had a business executive come to me, said they wanted to spend a few hundred billion dollars to put a colony on the moon, i'd say "you're fired." the idea that corporate america wants to build a colony on the moon, it may be a big idea, but it's not a good idea. we've seen politicians and newt, you've been part of this, from state to state and promise exactly what that state wants to hear. the speaker comes here to florida, wants to spend untold amount of money having a colony on the moon. i know it is exciting on the space coast. in south carolina, it was a new interstate highway and dredging the port in charleston, in new hampshire, burying a power line coming from canada. and building a new vha hospital in new hampshire so people don't to have go to boston. look, this idea of going state to state and promising what people want to hear, promising billions, hundreds of billions of dollars to make people happy, that's what got us into the trouble we're in now. we've got to say no to this kind of spending. >> i want to make two points. first, i thought we were a country where one of the purposes of candidates going around was to actually learn about the states they campaigned in and actually be responsive to the needs of the states they campaigned in. for example, the port of jacksonville is going to have to be expanded because the panama canal is being widened. that's useful for a president to know. i think it's important for presidents to know about local things. second. and, at the other end of the state, the everglades restoration project has to be completed. in response to what rick said, when we balanced the budget and had four consecutive balance saed bunlts, we doubled the size of the national institute of health because we set priorities. it is possible to do the right things in the right order to make this a bigger, richer, more exciting country. you don't just have to be cheap everywhere. you can actually have priorities to get things done. >> we're going to move on. go ahead, ron paul. >> quick comment. because newt's mentioned this a few times about balancing the budget for four times. i went back and look at the record. the budget was -- the national debt, during those four years actually went up about a trillion dollars. what he's talking about is, he doesn't count the money he takes out of social security. so, reagan nor you had a truly national debt goes up and that's what we pay the interest on. i think you've stretched that a little bit more than you should have. >> go ahead and respond and then senator santorum. >> no, i -- >> you want to respond? >> i would just say, under the system that was used, we were $405 billion -- i agree -- let me finish. i actually agree with you and i propose we take social security off budget so no president can ever get threaten as obama did in august that he would not send the check out and you can set social security back up as a free-standing trust fund. it does have enough money and you could pay the checks. >> go ahead, quickly. >> we just listened to the president of the united states the other night completely ignore the biggest problem facing this country when it comes to our financial health. we've been downgraded as a country and the president of the united states completely ignored any of the heavy work, the hard work in being honest with the american public about what we have to do to get our fiscal house in order. and i think that's the point i make here. going around, promising new projects and big ideas -- that was fine. and maybe we need it, we can do that. i supported the doubling of the national institutes of health. but we didn't have a $1.2 trillion deficit. we weren't at over -- we are now going to reach $16 trillion, which is more than our whole gdp. we were not in that situation 20, 15 years ago. we are in a different world. we need leaders who are going to be honest with the people of this country, of the problems we have and have bold solutions to make that happen. i'll do that. >> let's continue on this subject. but let's take a question from the audience, go ahead. stand up and please introduce yourself. >> my name is lynn frazier and i live here in jacksonville. and for the republican presidential candidates, my question is, i'm currently unemployed and i found myself unemployed for the first time in ten years and unable to afford health carol benefits. what type of hope can you promise me and others in my position? >> let's ask congressman paul. >> well, it's a tragedy because this is a consequence of the government being involved in medicine since 1965. when i was growing up, we didn't have a whole lot, but my dad had a small insurance but medical care costs too much. and you should have an opportunity -- medical care insurance should be given to you as an individual. if you employed or not employed, you just take care of that and you keep it up. when you lose a job, sometimes you lose your insurance. but the cost is so high. when you pump money into something, like housing, cost -- prices go up. if you pump money into education, the cost of education goes up. when the government gets involved in medicine, you don't get better care, you get -- cost goes up and it distorts the economy and leads to a crisis. your medical care should go with you. i would be so much less expensive. it doesn't solve every single problem, but you are suffering from way too much government and the cost going up because government has inflated the cost and we have a government-created recession and that is a consequence of the cycle. >> speaker, what should lynn do? >> look, she actually put her finger on two different problems. the largest challenge is to get the economy growing so she can have a job so it is easy for her to have insurance. and the president did nothing about this the other night. his proposal on taxes would make the economy worse. we need to have a program which would start with, frankly, repealing obama care. we need to give her a chance at a job. second, we need real health reform. we need health reform that allows her to buy in, and dr. paul is right. get the same tax break if she buys personal little or through a economy. she should also be able to buy into an association so she's buying with lots of other people so it is not single insurance, which is the most expensive kind. you combine those two, reforming the insurance system and getting the economy growing again so people are back at work. you cure an awful lot of america's problems with those two steps and put her back in a position where she's in charge of her life, no dependent on barack obama to take care of her. >> that plan work for you, governor? >> actually what both these gentlemen said is pretty much spot-on. and i'll add a couple of things. i want to underscore something both of them said, and that is right now in america, if you have insurance, you most likely got it through your employer. and the reason is, your employer gets a deduction for you when they buy the insurance for you. that means that if you change jobs, you got to get a new insurance economy. that doesn't make sense. and if a individual wants to own their own insurance, not part of a big group and so as a result they get a very high rate. what we should do is allow individuals to own their own insurance and have the same tax treatment as companies get. you do that and people like this young woman would be able to own her insurance, the rates would be substantially lower. secondly, getting people to work. this president has failed the american people. he got up there and gave a speech last night, he was like groundhog day all over again. he said the same things and the same results were seeing today. people are not working. and we know what it takes to put people back to work. he said some of those things last night. lowering corporate taxes, lowering regulations, opening up all of the above in energy. cracking down on china. he just doesn't do any of those things and if i'm president, i will do those things and i'll get you back to work. thank you. >> all three of these folks sound great and i agree. i would just add that health savings account, which i introduced 20 years ago with john casey is really the fundamental reform of getting consumers back involved in the health care system. the problem with the answers is that, well, they didn't always say what they're saying. governor romney was the author of romney care, which is a top down government-run health carol system which, read an article today, has 15 different items directly in common with obama care. everything from the increase in the medicaid program, not just that government is going to mandate you buy something that's a condition of breathing, something that governor romney agreed to at the state level, something that congressman gingrich for 20 years advocated, that the federal government can force each and every person to enter into a private contract. something that every now, at least up on this stage says is radically unconstitutional -- congressman gingrich supported for 20 years. governor romney supported it in the state, a state that is a, pretty much a model for what obama is going to look like. highest health care cost in the country. 27% above the average. average waiting time -- 94% of the people in massachusetts are now insured but there was just a survey that came out and said 1 in 4 don't get the care they need because of the high cost. so, you have a card, you're covered, but you can't get care. this is the top down model that both of these gentlemen say they're now against but they've been for and it does not provide the contrast we need with barack obama, if we're going to take on the most important issue. we cannot give the issue of health care away in this election. it is too foundational to win this election. >> quick rebuttals? >> well, in my case, i think rick is lumping us together rather had more than is accurate. if you go to healthtransformation.net, i founded that center, i wrote a book in 2002. it calls for you and your doctor and your pharmacist and your hospital have a relationship. i leave in patient power. i didn't advocate federal mandates. i talked about it at a state level. finding a way to try to have people to have insurance, particularly for wealthy people who are simply free-riding on local hospitals. but the fact is, it was a personal system, dramatically different than either romney care or the version rick just -- >> governor romney? >> the system that we put in place in our state was something we worked out with the labor community, business and the citizens of the nation. we came together, it was voted by a 200-person legislator, only two voted no. our system has a lot of flaws. a lot of things i'd do differently. has a lot of benefits. the people of the state like it by about three to one. we consider it very different than obama care. if our president, day one, i will take action to repeal obama care. it's bad medicine. it's bad economy. i'll repeal it. and i believe the people -- i believe the people of each state should be able to craft programs they feel are best for their people. i think ours is working pretty well. if i was governor, it would work a heck of a lot better. >> very quickly. go ahead. >> what governor romney just said is that government-run top down medicine is working well in massachusetts and he supports it. >> that's not what i said. >> think about what that means going up against barack obama, who you are going to claim, well, it doesn't work and we should repeal and he's going to say, wait a minute governor. you said it works well in massachusetts. folks -- we can't give this issue away in this election. it is about fundamental freedom. whether the united states government or even a state government, you have amendment one here, who, by the way, endorsed me today, it's going to be on your ballot as to whether there should be a government mandate here in florida. according to governor romney, that's okay. those are not the clear contrasts we need if we're going to defeat barack obama and a billion dollar debt. >> very quickly. >> rick, i make enough mistakes in what i said not for you to add more mistakes to what i said. i didn't say i'm in favor of top down government-run health care. 92% of the people in my state had insurance before our plan went in place and nothing changes for them. they have the same private insurance they had before. and for the 8% of people who didn't have insurance, we said to them, if you can afford it, buy it yourself, any one of the plans out there, choose any plan. there's no government plan. and if you don't want to buy insurance, then you have to help pay for the cost of the state picking up your bill because under federal law if someone doesn't have insurance, then we have to care for them in the hospitals, give them free care. we said no more free riders. we are insisting on personal responsible. that was the conclusion that we reached. >> does everybody in massachusetts have a requirement to buy health care? >> everyone has an requirement to either buy it or pay the state for the cost of providing them free care. because the idea of people getting something for free when they could afford to care for themselves is something we decided in our state was not a good idea. >> so, in massachusetts -- just so i understand, in massachusetts, everybody is mandated as a condition of breathing in massachusetts, to buy health insurance, and if you don't -- if you don't, you have to pay a fine. what's happened in massachusetts is that people are now paying the fine because health insurance is so expensive. what is happening in massachusetts, the people that governor romney said he wanted to go after, the people that were free-riding, free ridership has gone up five-fold in massachusetts. five times the rate it was before -- >> that's total, complete -- >> i'll be happy to give you the study. five times the rate it's gone up. people are ready to pay a cheaper fine and then be able to sign up to insurance, which are now guaranteed under romney care, than pay high cost insurance, which is what's happened as a result of romney care. >> first of all, it's not worth getting angry about. second little, the -- secondly, 98% of the people have insurance. and so the idea that more people are free riding the system is simply impossible. half of those people got insurance on their own. others got help in buying the insurance. look. i know you don't like the plan that we had. i don't like the obama plan. his plan cuts medicare by $500 billion. we didn't, of course, touch anything like that. we -- he raises taxes. we didn't do that. he wasn't interested in the 8% of the people who were uninsured. he was concerned about the 100% of the people in the country. obama care takes over health care for the american people. if i'm president of the united states, i will stop it. and in debating barack obama, i will be able to show that i have passion gnat concern for the people in this country that need health care, like this woman who asked the question. but i will be able to point out what he did was wrong. it's bad medicine and i will repeal it. >> let's move on. >> wolf, what governor romney said it is incorrect. your mandate is no different than barack obama's mandate. it is the same mandate. he takes over -- you take over 100%, just like he takes over 100%, requires the mandate. the same fines that you put in place in massachusetts are fines that he puts in place in the federal level. >> congressman paul, who is right? >> i think they're all wrong. i think this -- this is a typical result of when you get government involved, because all you are arguing about is which form of government you want. they have way too much confidence in government sorting this out. so, i would say there's a much better way. and that is allow the people to make their decisions and not get the government involved. it's only been -- when i started medicine, there was no medicare or medicaid. and nobody was out in the streets without it. now, now people are suffering, all the complaints going on. the government isn't our solution. so, i'm not too happy with this type of debate, trying to blame one versus the other, so, but -- most likely we're going to continue to have this problem unless we straighten out the economy. >> i'll give you 30 seconds. >> and they talk about these programs but how many of the other candidates are willing to cut anything? i'm willing to cut $1 trillion out of the first year. >> all right. >> i just want to say, i actually think if you look at what ron paul's background is as a doctor and you look at medicine in the early '60s and you look at how communities solved problems, it was a more flexible and less expensive system and there's a lot to be said for rethinking from the ground up the entire approach to health care. >> let's go to miami. well have another question. juan carlos lopez is standing by. go ahead. >> yes, wolf. our question comes from jennifer, the executive director of the hispanic leadership network. and your question has to do with the future, jennifer? >> yes, thank you. we have many qualified hispanic leaders. which of our hispanic leaders would you consider to run in your cabinet. senator santorum? >> well, obviously your senator marco rubio is a pretty impressive guy. >> well -- >> speaker gingrich? >> i think there are a number and i think for example of, when you think cabinet, i think of susanna martinez, the governor of new mexico, i actually thought about marco rubio in a absolutely more dignified and central role than being in the cabinet, but that's another conversation. >> governor? >> we are blessed to have an enormous number of highly qualified hispanic americans in the republican party and leadership right now. brian sandoval, the governor of nevada, you mentioned susanna martinez in new mexico. both of the diaz brothers. mel martinez is back in the private sector. he could be pulled back. of course senator marco rubio. i'm sure i'm missing many, many others but we have a remarkable -- carlos gutierrez, former secretary. they can be in the cabinet and other positions, as well. >> i don't have one particular name i'm going to bring up but my litmus test would be to get individuals, hispanic or otherwise, who understand monetary policy and understand the system, but also the hispanic community is especially attune to the foreign policy of nonintervention. they are more opposed to war than other communities, so -- i would think there's plenty in the hispanic community that could give me good advice and an understanding of why a nonintervention foreign policy is very attractive to the hispanic people. >> i want to take a short break. we have many more topics to include, including this, we'll get into this a little bit. what would your wife -- why would your wife make the best first lady? i'll ask these four candidates. stay with us. i'm wolf blitzer. we're here in jacksonville for cnn's republican debate. many of you are watching online, commenting on twitter, facebook at cnn.com. we have many more questions for the candidates, including one that hits close to home. stand by to find out why each man on this stage thinks his wife would be the best first lady. homicide of young people in america has an impact on all of us. how can we save these young people's lives? as a police chief i have an opportunity to affect what happens in a major city. i learned early on if you want to make a difference you have to have the right education. university of phoenix opened the door. my name is james craig, i'm committed to making a difference and i am a phoenix. try bayer advanced aspirin. it's not the bayer aspirin you know. it's different. first, it's been re-engineered with micro-particles. second, it enters the bloodstream fast, and rushes relief to the site of your tough pain. the best part? it's proven to relieve pain twice as fast as before. bayer 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[ male announcer ] buy unlimited messaging and get free unlimited calling to any mobile phone on any network. at&t. want to get right back to the rest of the debate, but first on a lighter subject, i want to ask each of these gentlemen why they think their wife would make a great first lady. congressman paul? >> well, she's been my wife for 54 years. and we're going to have an anniversary on february 1st. >> congratulations. >> so -- but she's the mother of five of our children and she's a grandmother of 18 grandchildren. does an excellent job and she's also the author of a very famous cook book. >> governor? >> i got to take a little bit more time, a little more seriousness. my -- nothing wrong with what you said, i'm sorry. my wife is also a mom and as i pointed out early on, but in some respects, she's a real champion. and a fighter. she was diagnosed in 1998 with multiple sclerosis and more recently with breast cancer. chef has battled both successfully and as first lady, she will be able to reach out to people who are struggling and suffering. and she's had a passion all of her adult life on helping people in troubled situations, young women in particular, understand the importance of getting married before they have babies and encouraging people to create families to raise kids in. >> first of all, having gotten to know them, i think all three of the wives represented here would be terrific first ladies. we think they'd be fabulous people. i would rather to talk about why i like callista, but she's not necessarily better. these are wonderful people and they would be wonderful first ladies. but callista brings a couple of things. one is a tremendous artistic focus. she's done a video in music education. she plays the french horn in community band, sings in the choir. she really cares about the arts and would bring a really strong feeling for music education and for art and why it matters to people, as part of their education. she's very patriotic. she's had a best-receiving book, children's book, and has really reached out to young people to get them to understand america. and she's helped produce and host seven movies now. she would bring an artistic flair. >> senator santorum, your wife is not here tonight. >> no, she's not. she's doing what she does, incredibly well, which is to be a mother to our seven children and she is -- she's my hero. she's someone who is -- has been well educated, she was a neo-natal intensive care nurse, one of the most advanced nurseries in the country. she went on to, because she saw all the ethical challenges there, she went on and got a law degree to deal with those in the legal world. and then when she got married, she gave that up, she walked away and walked into something that she felt called to do, which was to be a mom and to be a wife. and we've had eight children, we were blessed to be raising seven. we've been through a lot together. losing a child. having a child with a disability that we have now, our little bella. and the amount of love for these special kids is just palpable. she wrote a book about the son that we lost. we know of hundreds of lives that were saved because people read that book and realized that the child they we're carrying had the dignity to be love and nurtured irrespective of what mall lady may have befallen that baby in the womb and so many children were born and are alive today because of that book. she's written a book on manners. that's something that i -- we have seven children. we know that kids are not born good. and -- and so manners is very important in our house and she wrote a storybook because there were all sorts of how-to books on manners but no story book, teaching manners, well, how christ taught us, through stories. that's what she did. and that book is hopefully civilizing children around this country. >> all right, let's get back to the debate right now. governor romney. you criticized speaker gingrich for not being as close to ronald reagan as he says he was. when you ran for the senate, you said you were, quote, you weren't trying to return to reagan-bush. so, the question is, do you think you can claim the reagan mantle for than speaker gingrich. >> oh, of course not. i was at the time of ronald reagan was president, i was just getting started. i came out of school, got my first job, worked my way up in a consulting company and then after awhile, started a business of my own. i was looking at politics from afar. and learning as time went on. i didn't get involved in politics early in my life. i spent my time building a business and then later, as my business had been successful and we'd been involved in turnaround situation, businesses in trouble that we were able to help, not all worked out as well as we hoped, i got asked to bring the salt lake city olympics in 2002 on track. i put aside my business and went to utah and was perhaps the greatest professional experience of my life, going there and spending three years helping getting the games on track. i believe the olympics is one of the great showcases of the human spirit that exists in the media world. it was very successful. and after that, i was asked by some friends to come back and run for governor, did that. that's when i became terribly politically involved. in that involvement, i learned a lot of lessons. i became more conservative by the way, as i was governor and found the importance of lowering taxes, making it easier for businesses to grow. the importance of driving schools to be the best in the country. those are the things i did. so, i'm suggesting, the speaker was a congressman at the time, ronald reagan was president, so, he, of course, was closer to ronald reagan era than i. >> mr. speaker, you heard the criticism that you weren't necessarily as close to the president as you suggest. >> well, it's increasingly interesting to watch the romney attack machine coordinate things. and all of a sudden today there are four different articles by four people different that show up. the fact is, i'm thrilled that michael rail began has endorsed me and will be campaigning with me here in florida. i remember very fondly in 1995, when we were at the goldwater institute and nancy reagan said, you know, barry gave ronnie the torch and now ronnie's passing the torch to newt and his team in congress. so, i think it's reasonable to say, and i think the governor said it fairly, i am vastly closer to reagan and in that period, the governor was a business person. in '92, he was donating to democrats in congress. in '94, running against teddy kennedy, he said, flatly, i don't want to go back to a reagan-bush era. there's a pretty wide gap. he's more mature, he's more conservative, i accept that. i think it's a good thing. but those of us in the trenches fighting in the '80s, it would be nice to be recognized for what we did and not to have attacks to distort the history of that period. >> governor romney, you can respond. >> just a short clarification. i never voted for a democrat when there was a republican on the ballot. and in my state of massachusetts, you could register and go vote in either primary happens to be very interesting as an independent. any chance i got to vote against bill clinton or ted kennedy i took. so, i am -- i have always voted for republican any time there was a republican on the ballot. with regards to the speakers involvement in the reagan years, he can speak for himself, the reagan diaries can lay that out, as well. i think -- i think what he said speaks for itself and i'm proud of the things i'm able to accomplish. >> let's take a question from the audience. >> my name is jorge, i live here in jacksonville. when i was 3 years old, i was very blessed that my parents brought mel here from cuba. they brought me here to be raised in freedom and liberty. president obama recently announced that he is liberalizing trade and travel policies. what would be your position as president toward the island of cuba? >> senator santorum? >> i would oppose it. i've been 100% in support of the cuban people and their right to have a free cuba and the united states should stand on the side of the cuban people, against these despots who are not just reigning terror, continuing reign of terror in cuba but now they have puppet chavez in venezuela and it keeps like a cancer growing. so, the idea that a president of the united states would take the heart of the cancer that is in central and south america and begin to reward behavior that has spread this cancer, because of our dilly dallying and our inattentiveness to the problems in central and south america, now we're going to reward the secret police, we're going -- that are as present in venezuela as they are in cuba. we're going to reward this type of thuggery, this type of marxism in our region. we're going to reward a country that is working with these other countries to harbor and bring in iran and the terrorist, the jihadists who want to set up missile sites and to set up training camps. so, we're going to reward this behavior by opening up and liberalizing. this is the exact wrong message at the exact wrong time. >> congressman paul. you said the u.s. should talk to everyone. imagine you're in the oval office, you speak to raul castro, what would you say to him? >> well, i'd ask mihm what he called about, you know? what was the purpose of his call? no, i would ask him, what can we do to improve relations? because i wouldn't see them as likely to attack us. when i was drafted in october of '62, that was a different world, i mean, there were nuclear weapons in cuba. that was a different story. but today, to not to talk to them and take the call and see what you can work out, helps castro. it hurts the people, the dissidents, the people who want to overthrow him. they have always had to be, you know, nationalistic and unified behind the leader. as well intended as these sanctions are, they almost inevitably backfire and they help the dictators and hurt the people. so, it's time to change. the cold -- the cold war, the cold war is over. they're not going to invade us and i just think that a better relationship and trade relationship, so many people -- i think -- i've noticed already since i've been talking about this issue the last four, five years, i think the people have changed their mind. the american people are getting much more open, not nearly as frightened and people, i don't think they see a jihadist under the bed every night and we have to worry about that. i think there's a -- i worry about overreaction and overconcern and lack of ability to talk to them when they call you. >> governor romney? >> two major flaws with president obama's foreign policy -- >> what about ron paul's policy? >> well, i'm talking about president obama now. we can get back to ron paul in a moment. first of all, i think the president has largely ignored late tip america, cuba in particular, venezuela and other nations. i think we have to change that dramatically. i think we have to have economic programs to help with colombia and panama. i want more of that. but that's first flaw, ignoring latin america. and number two is reaching out with accommodations to the world's worst actors, whether it was putin in russia, giving him what he wanted or castro, saying, we're going to let you do those things, throughout the world, with ahmadinejad, ouch hand. tyrants look for weakness to take advantage. that's the wrong course. the right course for cuba is to continue to honor it. if i'm president of the united states, i will use every resource we have, short of invasion and military action, congressman paul, i'll use every resource we can to make sure that when fidel castro finally leaves this planet that we are able to help the people of cuba enjoy freedom. they want it. it's a god-given right and it is our responsibility to help share the gift of freedom with people throughout the world who are seeking it. >> are you open -- mr. speaker? are you open to improving relations with cuba? >> well, let me start with where the governor correctly pointed out, i was very proud as speaker to be able to make sure that the act passed and i'm delighted that congressman dan burton is here tonight and is campaigning with me. it was a very important step in isolating the castro regime. i think it is amazing that barack obama is worried about an arab spring, worried about libya, egypt, syria and cannot bring himself to look south and imagine a cuban spring. and i would argue that we should have as a stated explicit policy that we want to facilitate the transition from the dictatorship to freedom. we want to bring together every nonmilitary asset we have, exactly as president reagan and pope john paul ii did in poland and in eastern europe. they broke up the soviet empire without a war by using a wide range of things. one of which is just psychological. saying to the next generation of people in cuba, the dictatorship is not going to survive. you have need to bet to moving to freedom in order to have prosperity in cuba and we will help you get to that freedom. >> let's take another question from the audience. please give us your name and tell us where you are from. >> abraham from jacksonville, florida. how would a republican administration help bring peace to palestine and israel when most candidates barely recognize the existence of palestine or its people. as a palestinian-american republican, i'm here to tell you we do exist. >> let's ask governor romney, first of all. what would you say to abraham? >> well, the reason that there's not peace between the palestinians and israel is because there is, in the leadership of the palestinian people, are hamas and others who think like hamas, who have as their intent the elimination of israel. and whether it's in schoolbooks that teach how to kill jews or whether it's in the political discourse that's spoken from fatah or hamas, there is a belief that jewish people do not have a right to have a jewish state. there are people that say, should we have a two-state solution? and the israelis would be happy to have that. it's the palestinians that don't want it. they want to eliminate the state of israel. and i believe america must say, and the best way to have peace in the middle east is not for us to appease, but to say, we stand with our friend israel. we are committed to a jewish state in israel. we will not have the an inch of difference between ourselves and israel. this president went before the united nations and castigated israel for building settlements. he said nothing about thousands of rockets being rained in on israel from the gaza strip. this president threw -- i think -- i think he threw israel under the bus with regards to e the fining the 67 borders as a starting point of negotiations. i think he disrespected prime minister netanyahu. i think he has time and time again shown distance from israel and that's created in my view a greater sense of aggression on the part of the palestinians. i will stand with our friend israel. >> thank you, governor. speaker gingrich, you got into a little hot water when you said the palestinians were an invented people. >> it was technically an invention of the late 1970s and clearly so, prior to that, they were arabs. many of them were syrian, lebanese or egyptian or jordanian. a couple simple things here. there were 11 rockets fired into israel in november. now, imagine in duvall county, that 11 rockets hit from your neighbor. how many of you would be for a peace process and how many of you would say, you know, that looks like an act of war. you have leadership, and governor romney is right, the leadership of hamas says, not a single jew will remain. that's not a peace negotiation. this is war by another form. my goal for the palestinian people would be to live in peace, to live in prosperity, to have the dignity of a state, to have freedom and they can achieve it any morning they are prepared to say, israel has a right to exist. we give up the right to return and we recognize we're going to live side-by-side. now let's live together to create mutual prosperity and you could dramatically improve the quality lime of every palestinian. but the political leadership would never tolerate that. we're always in a continue was state of war. on the first day i'm president, if i do become president, i will sign an executive order directing the state department to move the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem to send the signal we're with israel. >> let's take another question from miami. juan carlos? >> thank you, wool. i'm joined now by elizabeth, she is ceo of the puerto rican chamber of commerce here in florida. >> good evening. i am bilingual, proud of it. my question to the candidates, we have 4 million puerto ricans in the united states, voters. 3.8 in puerto rico. we have been treated as second class citizen and just now our governor's name was not mentioned as a vp possibility, a great governor. my question to you is, where do you stand for puerto rico to become a state, and secondly, where do you stand on domestic trade between florida and puerto rico between tampa bay and ponce port? >> senator santorum? the question about, do you support puerto rico potentially as the 51st state? >> first, i give a shoutout to the governor, who is a good friend of mine, someone, i know him and his family, we have known each other for many years, we used to go to church together. i spoke to luis this week. i've been to puerto rico many times and actually, when i was a united states senator, we did a lot of work with puerto rico. because of my relationship with many friends down there, i was made aware of problems, for example, in the medicaid program. we went down and actually passed things to help with reimbursement rates which were deplorably low in puerto rico. we also worked on hurricane relief and a whole lost of other things as a result of my relationship with many puerto ricans in pennsylvania and developed those relationships on the island. i believe that -- i believe in self-determination. you know, the puerto rican people should have the opportunity to be able to speak on this. i have supported that. i don't take a position one way or the other on statehood, that's for the people of puerto rico to decide. but i also supported a lot of things to help the puerto rican economy. puerto ricans are united states citizens and the poverty, the unemployment rates, simply are -- are simply not something that we as americans should allow to occur in our country. and we need to make sure that there are pro-growth supply side economics to make sure that puerto rico can be successful as an economy on that island. i believe they can. under my administration, that's something i would work towards. >> i'd take that to a maybe. statehood, not statehood -- >> i take no position on that. that's -- i would -- i've supported, you know, the opportunity for them to make that decision. >> let's take another question from the audience. go ahead. what is your name? >> suzanne pass, i'm an attorney in jacksonville. welcome to the great city of jacksonville. my question, how would your religious beliefs, if you're elected, impact the decisions that you make in the office of the presidency? >> congressman paul? >> well, my religious beliefs wouldn't affect it. my religious bleaches affects my character in the way i treat people and the way i live. the only thing it would affect -- the only thing that would affect me in the way i operate as a president or congressman is my oath of office and my promises that i've made to the people. >> governor? >> ron paul makes a very good point. i concur with that. i would also seek the guidance of providence in making critical decisions. and of course, ours is a nation which is based upon values and ethics, our law is based upon those values and ethics. and our law doesn't 'em compass all of issues that we face around the world. the conviction that the founder, when they wrote the declaration of independence were writing a document that was not just temporary and not just for one small locale, but something that described the relationship between god and man. that's something which i think a president would carry in his heart. when they said that the creator had endowed us with certain unalienable rights, i would seek to assure that those principles and values remain in america and that we help share them with other people in the live, not been conquering them, but by helping them through trade, various forms of soft power. to help bring people the joy and opportunity that exists in this great land. >> mr. speaker? >> i would say that there are three ways in which religion would affect me. the first is, i agree with governor romney, i think anyone who is president is faced with decisions so enormous that they should go to god. they should seek guidance. because these are decisions beyond the ability of mere mortals. i would say second that we have a real obligation to recognize if you're truly faithful, it's not just an hour on sundays or saturdays or fridays. it's in fact something that should sufuse your life, should be a part of who you are. it's inextricably tied in. one of the reasons i am running is there is an increasing war against religion and christianity in the country, largely by -- largely by a secular media and news media, and i believe it's important to have some leadership that stands up and says, enough. we're truly guaranteed the right of religious freedom, not just religious oppression by the state. >> senator? >> faith is a very important part of my life, and it's a very, very important part of the country. the foundational documents of the country, people talk about the constitution, very important, but it's the how of america, the operator's manual. the why of america, who we are as a people, is in the declaration of independence. the constitution is there to do one thing. protect god given rights. that's what makes america different from any other country in the world. no other country in the world has its rights based in god-given rights. not government given rights. and so when you say faith has nothing to do with it, faith has everything to do with it. if rights come -- [ applause ] if our president believes that rights come to us from the state, everything government gives you it can take away. the role of the government is to protect rights that cannot be taken away. so the answer to that question is, i believe in faith and reason and approaching the problems of this country, but understand where those rights come from, who we are as americans, and the foundational principles by which we have changed the world. >> thank you, senator. we have one more break to take, but a lot more to discuss. don't go too far away. coming up, the final debate question before florida votes. the last few minutes of the last question to these four presidential candidates before the florida primary on tuesday in this debate format. here is the question and it involves the president of the united states. i want you to tell voters who are watcher or here on this campus right now why you are the one person on this stage that is most likely to beat barack obama. congressman? >> you know, so far, we have some pretty good evidence i'll do quite well and have a better chance than the rest to beat him. if you dea national poll, i do well against obama. but one of the reasons is that the freedom message in the constitution is very appealing to everybody in all political beliefs because it includes free markets, which conservatives endorse, but it also protects several liberties, the way people run their lives. if it is a god-given life, it's your life. you should have the right to run your life as you so choose as long as you don't harm other people. that means a lot more tolerance that people would like to give. that brings people in who are concerned about civil liberties, and my position undermined obama because my foreign policy is different. he promises to end the wars, but the wars expand. a constitutional policy will end the wars. if you want somebody to talk about peace and prosperity, it has to be someone who understands money and a free policy and free market. >> governor romney, why are you the one person on the stage most likely to beat president obama? >> people of america recognize that this is a critical time. this is not just an average election. this is a time where we're going to decide whether america will remain the great hope of the 21st century, whether this will be an american century, or if we'll go down to the path to become more like europe, a social welfare state. the economy is being eroded, government is becoming too large. we're in a dangerous direction. to get america back on fact, we have to have dramatic, fundamental change in washington to allow our private sector to emerge. to scale back the size of government and to maintain our strength abroad in our military capacity. i believe to change washington in such a dramatic way, you can't do that with people who have been there their entire careers. if you elect the same people and change chairs, not a lot will happen. to change washington, you have to bring someone in who has been on the outside. i worked thib private sector, i know how it works. i know what it takes to keep america strong. i know how to work in government. i have experience in four years working as the governor of massachusetts. i'll use the experience of my life to get america right and i'll be able to convince the american people that someone with my speerngs is very different than barack obama, and that's how i'll beat him. >> mr. speaker? why are you the one person on this stage most likely to beat president obama? >> you know, i have participated in the two largest republican sweeps in modern time. 1980, reagan campaign, 1994, with the contract with america, which had the largest one-party increase in american history. 9 million. i believe that what we need this fall is a big choice election that goes to the heart of who we are. i'm running more than anything for my two grandchildren, maggie and robert. i would like them to be able to look back 50 years from now and say that what we did, what we the american people did, the choice we made in 2012, to unleash the american people, to rebuild our country based on the core values, to pose for the american people a simple choice, do you want freedom and independence and a paycheck and a job, or dependence and big government and food stamps and a lack of future. i believe if we have a big election with truly historic big choinjs, we can defeat barack obama by a huge margin. it won't be just by running as a republican. it will be an american campaign open to every american who prefers a paycheck to food stamps, and prefers a strong national security to trying to appease our enemies. >> senator? i'll repeat the question for you. why do you think you're the best, most qualified person on this stage to beat president obama? >> i agree with the previous two speakers, this is a big election. an election about fundamental freedom, about what america is going to be. are we going to be built from the top up or the bottom up. i'm not for a top down government run health care program. i wasn't for the wall street bailouts like these two men were. governor romney talks about the private sector. when it was in trouble, he voted for the private sector to bail them out. cap and trade, both of them bought into the global warming hoax, in the energy and manufacturing sector. you look at president obama's speeches last night, he led with manufacturing. why? because the base of his party, the ones that are always the ones, not the base, the swing vote in his party, the ones that ronald reagan was able to get, reagan democrats we call them in pennsylvania, the blue collar working people in america who know this president has left them behind, he has a plan for them, and it's more democraciy, not work, not opportunity. so he went out and tried to make a play for manufacturing. that's been the center point of my campaign. winning the industrial hardland, get the reagan democrats, talking about democracy, talk all the way down so people can climb all the way up. that's why i'm the best person to go out and win the states that are necessary to win this presidency and governor with the mandates that newt just talked about. >> thank you to the four candidates and also our partners in the debate, the republican party of florida, the hispanic leadership network, thank you very much to them. we also would like to thank our hosts here on the campus of the yurcht of north florida. in jacksonville. be sure to join us tuesday night, our coverage begins 6:00 p.m. eastern. live coverage of the florida primary.

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