then we were divided in 2020. so, the way i would go about it is very direct and very simple. that there is no bad opinion. you want to express your opinion in this country, express it i want to hear. and then everybody gets a round table and resolve our issues. one of the time. the same way we used to do at dinner parties for the last eight or ten years. it wasn't like there weren't political differences to discuss. it's just that people did not start throwing their cutlery and it was a little more civilized. and it was not as if our democracy was at stake. see, in the end if you make everything a crisis, and it will be. and i heard the president today, joe biden earlier today talking about how he was concerned about democracy of donald trump getting elected again. and then i heard donald trump yelling and screaming about how badly he's been treated, these two guys need to stop worrying so much about themselves and start worrying about you. my approach to being president would be the same way it was when i was governor of new jersey. i've got 51% of the latino vote is a republican. why? because i went and campaigned in the places and let them get to know me. and i listened to them. and that is what you need a president to do. not just go to places where we are comfortable, go to the places where we are uncomfortable. and let's admit there are places where republicans are left comfortable that we are not or places. and go there. one quick thing, i went to irvington new jersey. i got about 350 votes in irving to new jersey in 2009. i told my staff i went to a town whole meeting in irving time, they said sir, you realize that those people are not for you in irvington? i said i want to go there. i went to a baptist church unnerving to. why went in, i turn to the past and said how many people are here. so we have over five and people. introduced to be onstage and they booed me. and i said you can boo me all you want because i already want. they said what do you mean. i said there more people in this charge then voted for me two years ago. this is a victory. you came to listen. let's get to listening to each other again. >> we hear each other, we don't listen to each other. i want to irvington and listen to. and i want all across new jersey to places where i had never voted republican before. and that is why i won 19 of the 21 counties reelection. because people said, he cares, he's listening, he respects my opinion. you know i didn't agree with them many times and when i didn't i tell them right to their face i didn't agree with them. they are looking. people of different opinions are always like i'm debris with them. they want to be heard. they want to be taken seriously. and now, right now with donald trump and joe biden what they're doing to this country is dividing us even further because it is to their advantage. the more divided we are, that is the only choice we have, then they will be the nominees and one of them went. we need to go differently folks. we need to go differently. and i am willing to fight as hard as anybody. watched me over the last 13 years, my state was hit by sandy. i fought with republicans and democrats to make sure my state was sitting here and we built, and it has been. i'm not willing to concede anything. on principle. but i am willing to work with anyone of goodwill who wants to make this country better. can you say the same thing about donald trump? can you say the same thing about joe biden? if you can't, you should think twice and think twice about all of the imitators to. one thing you'll be able to find out about me over the next year and a half, i'm not imitating anybody. this is an original everybody, this is it. okay, you are going to see who i am, you will get to know me and if you vote for me great, and if you don't at least he'll know who are not voting for. and what is in my heart. and that is what i will show you and give you. i will fight for you to do that, to have the right to do that. and i'm going to make sure that we remember what we all have in common. that we are americans. and this is the greatest country the world has ever seen. and as we approach 250 years, let's stop the arguing and fighting over the small things. and let's work together to win the fights on the big things that will make our children smarter, more prosperous, healthier and safer. if we do those things this country has no rival. hasn't had one before, and we'll have one for the next hundred years. >> governor chris christie, thank you very much, joining us. cnn's coverage continues. with jake tapper and erin burnett. >> i'm jake tapper, alongside erin burnett. you have been watching republican presidential candidate chris christie. former governor of new jersey take his 2024 message to voters. in our live cnn town hall, the governor making headlines on multiple fronts but particularly with his rather blistering rebuke of donald trump on the eve of the former presidents arraignment on federal criminal charges. >> jake it was absolutely, that chris christie describing the ex president as angry, vengeful, somebody who does not give a dang about the american people. talked about his losing record, lose, or loser loser he said. also took on his party for blaming the doj. and not trump himself. former governor making news on division politics. the war, ukraine and obviously seeing so much more on that 90-minute town hall. >> let's break it down with the group i have here. dana bash starting with you. what struck you the most? >> chris christie got into this race saying that the only way to be the front runner is not to tiptoe around him but to go through him. to try to hit him head on saying that from the experience that he's had knowing him for 22 years the experience of running against him and not fearing well in 2016 and then really helping him a lot during his presidency. >> hoping trump ally. >> yes, helping trump la. then as erin said, tonight, you heard the terms that he knew that we get under donald trump's skin. loser, loser, loser, child, vanity run a mark, those kinds of things were clearly deliberate in order to try to egg donald trump on. not just tear him down, which is his primary goal but to try to get under his skin. >> john, is there a political appetite for any of this? >> if he can somehow bend the arc of the republican party back to where it used to be, even then some people might say are you a conservative enough, your from the northeast. but you heard sort of the tough part is that of a primary message. when a voter brought it up anderson played the quick clip, chris christie said he got motivated because 2:30 in the morning on election night donald trump saying the election was stolen. nobody knew, we were all still working. joe biden couldn't claim victory that nor could donald trump, nobody could, they had unfinished counting votes and donald trump said the election was stolen. he said, i beg you to think about this, to republican voters. six and ten republicans still think the election was stolen. that's a child. i beg you to think about this. a lot of put republicans still like trump. he's trying to shake them, if you will. do the thing they said was what is your calling card in this race, what makes are different? i governed in a blue state, he talked about getting in a room in compromising. he said let's get back to listening to each other again. but that reasonable compromises, common sense solutions. can you tell a primary electorate that wants to shake things up, stir things up, that is in combat mode. donald trump and ron desantis don't talk a lot about compromise, don't talk a lot about conciliation, don't talk a lot about let's split the difference and get a good deal. so to get that in today's republican party? , he's going to have to change a lot of minds about what they think the race is about. >> and abby philip. these are republican primary caucus voters. chris christie is a gun guy, chris christie's antiabortion. he didn't lean into either of those issues at all. if you were a pro gun or pro life voter he didn't give you a reason. he certainly didn't say anything that would make you think he wasn't on your side. but he wasn't very aggressive. >> it is an interesting point that on those, let's call them culture war issues. he didn't really lean in that much. but i did think it was notable that he was covering it trump from the right. he said trump didn't bring down the deficit. he said trump didn't bring in immigration bill to the floor. i think he understands that you do have to go through trump but you can't do it from the left. you can't even really do it from the center, you have to be somewhere to his right. and i did see him trying to make those arguments to republican voters that this guy is just not the conservative that you think he is. whether that will work as an argument i think it has not worked historically in a republican primary because i think there's a lot of personality at stake when it comes to trump. the other thing about christy that you cannot ignore, i've seen christy in new hampshire in front of voters. he is very natural and comfortable in that setting. and he understands how to navigate these questions and get to the heart of the question. i think you saw someone just like nikki haley in some ways who is very practiced very rehearsed, this is not their first rodeo. and when you ask the question of who is going to be willing on the debate stage to do that not just in front of voters but to donald trump's face, and then you can see christie being able to do that. >> and jamie, one of the things that's interesting also in terms of the criticisms that you gave, that he gave president trump which were numerous and frequent. was he basically called him incompetent on the issue of immigration. >> donald trump didn't offer one piece of legislation the past on immigration period now he's blaming joe biden calling him incompetent i think it bothered donald trump more than calling him vein, i don't think being called vain bothers him. >> but loser -- >> loser came out early and repeatedly. chris christie is a very talented communicator and this is very much i think the chris christie we knew and saw before he supported donald trump. he has said he has nothing to lose here and the question i think is going to be to dana's point. he's out there to drive donald trump nuts. clayton simple. will it resonate with republican voters? and to your point, when he talked about policy, being a governor in a blue state. >> no it's not because we know how donald trump works if you go to truth social -- the question is how big of an audience does he have? especially when it donald trump right now, seven months, it is donald trump in the league, run desantis with the solid second. and then everybody else. during this i was texting around to a few people in the states in new hampshire. kristie has a bit of traction here but no real base but we like the fact that he is kicking trump. but trump gets no more than he has now. trump has 40% now. trump has 40%, there are nine of the candidates in the race. a lot of people trump will not go up. trump's challenges to hold what he's got. he's indicted, he will be arraigned tomorrow, we'll see the pictures, the trial who knows. but trump is about 40% in new hampshire right now. . texting with somebody in iowa i wish chris christie would come here because you get trump into a mud fight. would you support him, absolutely not. >> about chris christie similar social conservative activist in iowa. the people who don't like trump see christie's value as hurting trump. they don't see christie somebody that can beat him. nobody votes for seven months. >> the last thing i will say i asked the republican pollsters. he says about half of our base still is in an angry mood themself. the base is angry about their own grievances. >> i think that you are right about the term vanity run amok it won't necessarily be the most hurtful thing that donald trump her out of chris christie 's mouth. but his audience is primarily the republican electorate and that fit into the larger theme about. this is not his opponents fault. this is him, blame him. he said many times blame him, he is putting the country through this. and then going on later to say to the under candidates in the race, say his name, say his name. making a harry potter restaurants. that really is a main goal of the christie candidacy. it is to try to prosecute the case, the broader case against donald trump in a way that he believes only he can do for lots of reasons. >> to consolidate the anti-trump forces. and that isn't that, you want one person to take on trump i'll do that. >> stand by everyone, aaron. >> you hear the adviser to chris christie in 2016 you know well how he prepared for this. one thing you thought i thought was interesting, kristie said i've known him 22 years the only thing he understands is force. >> -- i gotta tell you having been to chris christie town halls all my life both in new jersey and new hampshire including that one irvington that was vintage christy. it was the guy who was taking on some uncomfortable truths he was doing the same things that the base doesn't agree with him on a hunt percent. he got back to tech talking about his record as a blue state governor. he got back about his record of prosecuting 130 prosecution -- >> the argument he was trying to make when he went on the voldemort reference. you are not going to win against somebody if you're not going to say his name that it is not a winning strategy. he was trying to walk a line it felt like the whole time to be taking on trump and time to talk about other policy issues. but did he make a case towards the rest of the field and how they are handling trump. i'm going to make an early prediction that if that kind of performance continues chris christie will 100% and up on the debate stage. that was one of the most powerful points he made was not just a case against trump but how the only way through trump, don't be trumpist through him. the fact that candidates are dancing around who is not a winning strategy. i think he's done that incredibly effectively, he came to play when he was talking about donald trump. on the policy issues he had some strong moments i would say. i think that he showed some grace when he was talking about the second amendment though he did not budge on really changes. that to me signals he's thinking about new hampshire where you don't really talk about anything but the second amendment. he had some nuance on abortion. talking about the whole of childcare but not just the life of the child. -- you see some muscles he hasn't flexed since 2016 talking about policy. but the most effective part of christy's taking on donald trump. >> one thing i thought, he was asked by anderson, what defines you? first was fiscal restraint, second was a strong social safety net. and he wanted to talk about school choice and more conservative things. when the republican base right now those are not, strong social safety net would be -- it's just not what you hear about. >> i don't know. if you consider social security and medicare to be a strong social safety net obviously one of trump's calling cards -- >> yes, but he said i'm not going to cut your social security and he did make the argument. he didn't stumble. >> as i watched him tonight i was thinking this is a governor versus the cultural zeitgeis t of the republican party. governors talk about their terms in terms of what the y did. you heard him say it multiple times, i've done that, i've been there. he talked about the things he accomplished. he never really dipped into the whole cultural arguments even when he got topics like abortion and guns and others he didn't make strident commentary, he just stayed away from it. the quote that stuck with me was we can either fight to get headlines or we can fight to get to an end. that's what the governor would say. now the question is is the mood of the republican party, is it in search of ends or is it of people who just want to fight for the sake of fighting. i would say i think this candidacy is built for one group of people. in the abc news poll this weekend 31% of americans said they had a favorable view of trump and biden. 70% of americans say they do not want this rematch. this candidacy is built for the double disapprove or. there's no primary for the double disapprove are. and that's his problem. but if you were in that camp and you watched that tonight you would be all over it. >> it's interesting to something he just said. i didn't hear about drag queens, i didn't hear about trans athletes, i didn't hear about bud light, i didn't hear about target. i mean now when i think about it i was like whoa, i can't believe i didn't hear those things at a republican town hall. >> chris christie tonight was a sane, was a harbor for same politics. not just republicans. i think for the country. that was a sane dude who is not scared of a co-leader or anybody else. i would never vote for him but you may be wrong. you said there is not a primary for the double disappointed, disapproval. we don't know who will show up in the primary, we don't have a primary on our side. there might be a lot of people who never voted in a primary before who say i don't want trump i don't want biden and that could be their guy. listen, i'm not just interested in talking about donald trump. he said stuff about people who are addicted to drugs. that was powerful. he talked about actual people. now listen, if that guy gets the nomination i think the democrats are going to have to eat our wheaties. this was a very important moment. there's at least now an option. a tough guy, a fighter, but he defined fighting as fighting for you, not fighting for headlines. that was the thing that struck me, scott. >> the most important thing is he's the guy who has a message. and i think van is right. the message, i thought it was just going to be i'm going to take on trump, nobody likes that more than me, i love that stuff. this was much smarter than me, though. >> you're very self aware. >> yeah i, am i'm an idiot. he didn't just say trump's a pig, i hate trump. he said, i'm a fighter for you. the democrats, i wrote a whole book about this. i was, i got this wrong when he ran against hillary. i was so appalled by trump's character, he's like the muhammad ali of evil, in my eyes. like the biggest ever. but that doesn't move voters. kristie made it about you. he said i'm going to be a fighter for you. don't fight for himself. i hope joe biden was watching because this, i think biden did that that's what he won. the way to take on trump is not simply to attack trump's character,, it's not to attack trump's voters. i'm real tired of people running the -- it's to say to those voters he has failed you. 82 counties with the heidi's, the highest opioid addiction, 75 voted voted for trump. 85 of the ten -- trump has failed you, read america, he has failed you, trump america. this is what christie is getting it. i think he is on his way to a really powerful way to take on trump. >> he got a question from the woman in south carolina, one of the first questions anderson took, who had brought up the baby formula issue. she said she was a trump voter , she's talking about making it -- how difficult it is while the u.s. is fighting in ukraine. her answer, his answer was that great countries should be able to do both. is that a message that can resonate in the gop right now? where this ukraine becomes a litmus test of this issue of that money is not as well spent. he answered that very specifically. a great country should be able to do both. taking a step back that was another aspect as well. -- why not to be able to criticize when there is a perception of the department of justice deciding to prosecute one case or the other. whether there is a discussion about being critical of funding or congressional appropriations or beyond or the battle between what can be proven common sense gun control law and right versus a need. what i appreciated about it was the idea, especially when. it came to the prosecution in this matter, the silence that he was critical of of his republican colleagues. you can on the one hand be critical of decisions not to prosecute, say, hillary clinton. or prosecute for him and james comey or otherwise. at the same time recognize the validity of the complaint and indictment. i think that's what's missing for a lot of people because of course the person who will be president is the head of the executive branch. a civics lesson, their role is to enforce the law. so if you are going to shy away from addressing a violation of the law, addressing how it should be enforced and ignoring the fbi, remember he wanted to keep director wray. here's what's going on -- if you are going to go against trump, forget trump. to support your own branch of government and the credibility it supposed to have i don't see how you are going to get very far in the office itself a little in the polls. >> one of the key point that he made which is one of the pole quotes from tonight, loser. don trump is not won anything since 2016 he made the point that independents opted into voting for him in 2016 like let's give this example. but they haven't since. -- i think you heard him sending a message. he said something interesting the alluded to a billionaire tax. when you asked about having the wealthy pay more which seemed a little out of step with a lot of conservative norms but it goes back to your point about a strong social safety net. i think there is a plate independents that he is doing and reminding folks that donald trump hasn't won. >> a quick point, is that the main focus now? maybe betting on what you are betting on, you're going to see these voters come out. but this is about going for those independents. >> i know there's a couple iowa voters in their. that's probably as close he will get to and i will voter in this election. that was a tailor message for new hampshire candidates who can participate in an open primary process. not to mention democrats. as you know joe biden won't even be on the ballot in the new hampshire primary. they're going to be looking for a home to express their disappointment with the direction of the country or possibly even donald trump. chris christie gave them a reason to possibly participate in the republican primary to do that. i'll stay with me please much more to come on our coverage tonight including an in-depth fact check of what christy told voters tonight. plus donald trump is now in florida, he will be arrested and arraigned again tomorrow. we have some new reporting coming up. we'll be back. - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. what do you get from the morgan stanley client experience? listening more than talking, and a personalized plan ♪ to guide you through a changing world. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening, i'm jake tapper, alongside erin burnett, our special coverage continues now of tonight's main event, our cnn town hall with chris christie, the former new jersey governor. we're also going to have the very latest on the preparations for tomorrow's second arrest of former president donald trump. >> one of the biggest headlines from his rivals this evening, the former governor kristi, who is really trying and making it very clear that he thinks that the way to beat trump is to go straight at him. >> he's angry and he's vengeful, and he said i am convinced that if she goes back to the white house, that the next four years will all be back and settling scores. he has shown himself, and most particularly in his post presidency, to be completely self centered, completely self consumed, and doesn't give a dam about the american people. >> governor christie also offered his predictions on the u.s. government's case against donald john trump. >> there will guarantee be a lot more. when your prosecutor, you never put every card on the table. specifically, i think there will be a lot of witnesses that actually worked for donald trump that are now gonna be testifying against. >> cnn anchor kaitlan collins is in miami florida ahead of trump's court appearance tomorrow. kaitlan, let's focus on christy's attacks. what's your take away? >> i think what struck me, jake, is just how personal his criticism of the former president was. obviously, he is one of about two gop candidates for president who are running for the republican primary nomination that have been outright critical of what happened here and of this indictment after it was unsealed last week. but tonight, chris christie took this indictment and what republicans have been saying, blaming it on the justice department, blaming it on president biden, claiming there is this to tear justice system, and he said no, he said that's wrong, it's got something to do with trump, putting himself before the country, and making all about trump, the man itself, not just trump, the republican front runner. >> he's saying i'm more important than the country. these are my papers. he saw an indictment is employees were scared. he always call them his boxes, his boxes, he wants his boxes near him. he flew the boxes up to new jersey for summer vacation. what is this, like they're a family member? i mean, seriously, i got my boxes with me. and let me ask you a question, what exactly was he doing with them? did someone remind him he's not the president anymore? you don't need these things anymore. this is vanity run amok, anderson, run amok, ego run amok. and he's now going to put this country through this, when we did not have to go through it. and everyone is blaming the prosecutors. he did it. it's his conduct. >> and you can hear him there, jake, he's almost mocking trump. and for chris christie to do that, who's obviously been a very outspoken critic of trump lately, is not surprising. but when you look at the entirety of the relationship, it certainly is. obviously, i covered trump on the campaign trail the first time around. kristie dropped out, endorsed trump, was boosting him on the campaign trail. i was there in 2020, when christie was inside the white house, helping trump prepare for the debates against president biden. and tonight, obviously, he's running against him for this nomination, but offering a very fierce criticism and essentially making fun of trump for taking the boxes and having this obsession with him, an obsession that is clear when you read the indictment and how many times trump referred to them, you know, as my boxes. but, certainly a march sharper criticism then you'll see from anyone else in the public infield. >> all right, kaitlan collins, we'll see you again in a few minutes, erin? >> jake, let's take a look at what chris christie did on the facts. fact-checking is crucial, checking tonight's cnn's tom foreman, who watched all. so, tom, what did christie have to say about the investigation to trump's 2016 campaign, and the russian, probe as we try to break down these facts? >> yeah, kristie said from the get-go that he called accusations of the trump campaign colluding with the russians garbage, and he said the evidence backed his position, listen. >> i was involved in that campaign in 2016 with donald trump. let me tell you something. i can guarantee there was no colluding going on. they're trying to figure out how to get from new york to wisconsin, okay? they were not -- colluding with the russians was the last thing they were thinking about. >> well, as a political ally at the time of trump, christy came to trump's defense many times including on russia,. however, gusty also specifically rejected trump's claim that the russia probe was a witch hunt. he said the degree of russian meddling in it -- at one point, was absolutely chilling. and we should note, the mueller report found there were attempts in 2016 at collusion between the russians and the trump campaign, and trump aides were, quote, receptive to some office, but no one was charged with conspiracy. so, he veered a little bit there. overall, he stuck generally to the facts and let them speak for themselves throughout the evening, erin. did not take as many flights of fancy we sometimes seen political media. >> no, no, he didn't. tom foreman, thanks. jake, it was interesting, even on the point is talk about debt, right, he's said obama increased the debt, and then trump increased more. i mean, i did notice several points where he made a point of using facts, and he did use them accurately. >> yeah, he sure did. let's talk about this in my panel, christie took aim at both trump and biden on concerns that either one of them would become the oldest person ever elected president. take a listen. >> if those two people are the nominee is, they are going to be a combined 160 years old on election day. i'm sorry, guys, nobody beats father time. nobody does. i'm different than i was when i first got into office 13 years ago, okay? i'm different, i feel it. and i cannot imagine 20 years from now, 22 years from now when i'm 60 years year old, at 82, being president of the united states? >> our panel is back, and john, he referred to both biden and trump as being bass there's sell by dates. >> he said one of his children 's called him ageist, any joke here to look at up. i suspect he knew what it meant. >> [laughter] >> look it's, insisting, he said joe biden is a big spender, he said in his view, he -- he has a policy difference with joe biden, but as with him on ukraine, not a tough sell to the republic primary election. what does he do -- he made a smart point about new hampshire. undeclared, meaning independent voters can vote. and a democrat can vote, it's very rare, people talk about this all the time and they always clock out the strategy, i'm going to get people in the other party to cross over and vote for me. as many people at this table tend to do it, but for an undeclared, people in the middle, sometimes they do go to the competitive side. is their competitive race? he's running a one state campaign. it's new hampshire. just like you have mike pence and jim scott out an ottawa, it either takes off, there are where you're going to go? he is going to go to new hampshire where he is just trying to get a more libertarian state, a little less republican, more libertarian, at least the history was. it's become a trump east gate. but he's trying to find a spot. and the idea that you're done with donald trump, the criticisms of biden, if you're the nominee, any republican is going to say, you heard about biden -- with a possible exception of ukraine. but is that an effort to try and get a couple extra votes new hampshire? because that's as one play? >> yeah, i mean, he's not wrong about the age issue being a factor on both the republican and on the democratic side. but i think in his party, the biggest issue is actually grievance. and the point that he made about whether or not republicans want trump running on his own grievances, that also might be true. but i think trump is making the argument to republican -- >> so, elie, one thing that is interesting is this the kind of explained his theory of the case as to why trump kept those classified documents, and it had to do with, if you read between the lines and also listen to his words, the fact that donald trump china has lived in denial over the past few years that he lost to joe biden. let's run that clip. >> this is vanity run amok, anderson, run amok, ego run amok. and he's not gonna put this country through this, when we didn't have to go through it. he cannot live with the fact that he lost joe biden. he can't live with it. and look, i watch the way joe biden is performing, i would be pretty bummed out too if i lost to joe biden. but the fact is, he did, and he wants to continue to pretend he's president. he wants the trappings of the presidency around him. and i think one of those trappings is these documents. >> so, if i'm hearing him correctly, he seems to be leaning into the idea that donald trump's whole world of denial, where he pretends he didn't lose and the election was stolen, also had to do with the fact that he had all these documents in his showing them off to people, he was pretending -- it's basically cause play. >> it's an interesting bit a psycho analysis by chris christie. but i actually happen to agree with it, when you read the indictment, there is not some great evil plan that donald trump has with these documents. he takes, he moves them around from the stage to the bathroom to bedminster. he does deploy them, those two instances we know about -- >> where he's showing off? >> yeah, he's showing off, he's trying to get them to shape the coverage there giving a little bit in his favor. but that's enough. i mean, that's certainly enough in terms of the technical criminal legal sense. makes it a little harder for prosecutors to stand up in front of a jury, because what the defense lawyers are gonna say, what's the grand plan here, some conspiracy between trump and his valet, walt nauta, to move documents into the shower? who cares? now again, technically meets the legal definition. but that is an interesting nuance of the case. i do think that's the best explanation. one other thing about chris christie, he was very strong tonight, and he has been throughout his career, and standing up for the independents and the prosecutors. he was one wants. and had a section tonight when he said something like, what's with constantly blaming prosecutors and this sort of grievance politics? how about you start with a person who did wrong? and i will tell you, chris christie did that throughout his career. i was head of criminal justice in new jersey when he was governor of the state, and there were many times when the media would call upon us of the a. g.'s office, this person needs to prosecute it. and ask them governor christie, what do you think, should the a. g.'s office we look at this person? and he would always say the same thing, similar to what he said tonight, he would say i was a prosecutor, the last thing any prosecutor needs or wants politicians getting involved. >> it's interesting, john king, also one of things he said, first of all, chris wray, the director of the fbi, is under fire from republicans, who are alleging that the fbi and department of justice are being weaponized against republicans, even though chris wray was appointed by donald trump. chris wray was also chris christie's lawyer drink bridge gate, and he said he would keep him in that job, which is also again, not what the base perhaps wants to hear. >> right, that was the one time he took direct disagreement with governor desantis, because questions asked in the contest, desantis said he would fire him on day one. he said he would not. he said he would keep him there. >> he didn't take a shot at desantis, steady? >> he did not, he just said we disagree, agree to disagree, and moved on. he said he would keep him there unless he found out something when he was president that he had done something wrong, but he thought it was a good guy. i need to know, you'll notice he went on, he was smart enough, i guess, for the republican base to say he is cleaned out all the leadership that was there of james comey, who is anathema to the problem base, is gone. but again, sounds like a little thing in today's republican party, i suspect somebody wax and win it. >> yeah. our live coverage -- continues in just a moment, with much more live coverage, with -- away from the second arrest of donald trump. house he preparing for his arraignment? 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(soft music) >> i feel wholly inadequate giving you that answer, because three my children were sitting there and i have a fourth one out in chicago, and what is a very dangerous place for a daughter right now. and i don't know how i'd put one foot in front of the other if i lost one of them. so, all i can say to you is that i will do my very best to try to come up with some compromise that can bring all sides together on this that can make it better. and i think the only way you do that is by listening to everybody who is involved and concerned about, and try and find those common threads. and then as a leader, pull those common threads together and come to a solution. >> that was the former new jersey governor, chris christie, at a town hall a few moments ago talking about gun control, guns, he was talking to a father who lost his son in the las vegas shooting. you know, scott, it was interesting, there was a lot of policy. he had thought a lot about that. it was very interesting on this particular issue, and one other. but first, let's stick to this one. he did not have an answer. and this is a person who had of course an earlier iteration of his career had been for an assault weapons ban. here, he was making the argument of i don't really know, and i don't think there's anything else the federal government can do. >> yeah, he really did not want to lean into some of the culture war topics, guns being one. but republicans want to hear of course is that you are going to defend the individual right to keep and bear arms at all costs. that's what most republican voters want to hear. but he did not want to get into that. numerous times tonight, when he got a question from an audience member, he did it with the -- south carolina, he did it with that gentlemen, he really lean into their personal story more than sloganeering. >> the empathy of it. >> to me, that's the real authentic quality of chris christie. now, does it making a culture warrior? does it make him a very partisan idealogue? which in some ways is in vogue right now. but it does make him engaging. make some serious. and honestly, it makes him seem humbled to me. when a politician looks at you and says i don't have all the answers, but i'll do my best to get to the most unifying answer i can, that is a pretty humble statement in a world that doesn't really reward that right now. >> all right, but what about on the accuracy of this, right, that there -- can be more down on the federal level? there are things that could be done at the federal level, if you chose to do them at a federal level, whether be about bump stocks or -- loophole. >> yeah, i like that he was willing to let hard things be hard. abortion is hard, he's willing to let that be hard. guns are hard, he's willing to let that be hard. but he was docking. there could be more that could be done at the federal level. and frankly, you know, if you are truly passionate on the question of abortion, there's more that can be done on the federal level there. so, he was breaking with this kind of authentic policies, straight talk role there. but i think he was being authentic and parts of it are hard. >> there is a little bit of nuance to the statement as well, because he tries to make a connection when anderson spoke about how he had changed his views on, say, the assault weapons ban and beyond, the question was, when he's 29 years old, why do you need this? and he said that is the wrong question. the question is not about need, it's about the right, and then reference the second amendment, as a point of reference. why i think that so important, leads me to think about that, is because that is the debate. people are talk about, well, why do you need this? is it really for hunting or otherwise? that's one conversation that is happening. then there is the second amendment consideration, this one court, whether talking, not the need, the right for preference, and what you're able to do. and at its core, i think to unpack that even further is probably one of the reasons why he did not have the answers, because you're looking ahead to the supreme court, looking about what questions are being asked, and whether suicidally we are going to balance this need versus right, and in fact the right question. >> go ahead. >> i think when things are trying to do is bring a three dimensional aspect to it. where you stand on the issues, where you are going to act as a leader when the white house. it's almost the opposite approach of someone like ron desantis. ron desantis and his campaign are saying i want to be most concerned of guy on every issue. doesn't matter what it is, what donald trump says, i'm the most conservative guy. but don't worry about personality. chris christie saying the opposite. look, i stand by the second amendment, i'm personally pro-life, all these things. but let me tell you how i'm going to think as leader and act as leader. and it was differentiating him from a lot of other competitors. >> to that point, let's talk about the abortion question, because there is one telling moment there, he said, look, in oklahoma you can have an abortion at all, and he said in new jersey, now that's his state. they now allowed up to nine months. he was making the point that he was pro-life but the governor of a state that was, and he could support that, fine. but his point in his -- i get that it's complicated. but he's saying until the states figured out and get on the same page, there is nothing that can be done. but the reality, of course, is that you are in a state where a woman in a dire situation may not get an abortion at all. it doesn't really answer the question. >> i saw two ways. on the one hand, there's a level of humility, and it's such a stark juxtaposition to i alone can fix it, of donald trump. the person who thinks they have all the answers, we've worked in the white house, no one has all the answers. i think he was a little meekly prepared on the abortion answer. and i think he will sharpen up on it. seemed like he was leaning into a states right issue, what's right for oklahoma doesn't have to write for new jersey, because the answer was around a federal sort of ban. but again, this will be one of the defining debates of our time, and certainly of this coming election. and i think that that group he is trying to appeal to and stands to grow with, which is independents and moderates, he's going to have to define and lane in terms of where he is on jobs in the post-dobbs era. >> yeah, and that, paul, he did not do that. >> no, he is a guy who does not want to live and die on social issues. he is not a right-wing social warrior. you know, ron desantis, to paraphrase joe biden, every sentence is a noun a verb and woke. just christie doesn't want to live there. i thought i was refreshing as a democrat. and i bet you there are a lot of republicans who feel that way. it's kind of like taking on trump for being too selfish, rather than to corrupt. and he did, he almost had it, when he said trump, i want to be your retribution. the next line has to be i want to be your economic recovery. right, something about you. he was on the saying -- he'll get there. i'm sorry to be such a campaign manager. but that's where he wanted to get. and when he was talking -- christie has a reputation as a bully. and his town hall meetings in new jersey, he was famous for calling people jerks, like teachers who is fighting with. >> yes, oh yeah, i remember some of these soundbites. >> i was really pleased. you can see the chip go off. he was talking at that poor man. >> but in mid answer, it changed. >> something happened. and that's great, it shows he's living in the moment. i don't know how anyone can live with that man's pain. and how many politicians can look at him and not feel that pain. so, good, good for him for making that mid course correction. >> you know, he said, he said tonight that he's different than he was 13 years ago when you run into office. he did seem to be a more mellow version. because when he came to prominence in the republican party, the reason he was so popular for a bit was because he was bashing teachers unions in those town hall meetings. he was, like, confronting them. and those confrontational moment came to define him. but i did not see that tonight. i saw a very humble person who just wanted to move the country past confrontation. just not his reputation. >> and one other quick point, van, one other thing he was talking about was compromise, and he brought up -- which, she likes to do. but the whole point was saying is if you get zero, you get zero. but if you get 60% of what you want, that's a win. and compromise is not a bad word. and on that, opposed to guns or abortion, where he was really lowered to talk about, he did want to talk about that. >> look, we're in a weird spot when chris christie is the unifier in chief. that's where we're at. chris christie is coming here, let's calm down with all the -- . and i think he was playing a paternal role, you know. he was being the dad. he talked about personal responsibility, trump needs to take personal responsibility. you know, it was interesting. it was not the chris christie i was used to seeing. and maybe there is room for someone like him. 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do you think we will see a mugshot? will we see any images of him from inside the courthouse? >> it doesn't seem like we're going to see much. we may not even see him going into the courthouse. we believe there will be some courtroom sketches, jake, but it's not going to be photos or anything like we saw last time, were photographers were briefly allowed in, like when you saw those historic photos of trump in the courtroom, we're not expecting that to happen tomorrow. jim trusty, the attorney who is since august we left the team, he initially said last week he is not gonna be arrested or anything like that because it was a summons for trump to appear here tomorrow. so, really, the question is not among his team what happens tomorrow. obviously, he'll plead not guilty, it's what happens next. because that's when the next date is set. that's when he could potentially be in front of judge cannon, a trump appointed judge, i should note, who is appointed by trump in the days after he lost the 2020 election. that is really what trump's legal team and those around him will be looking at. it's not really in tomorrow, when is obviously, though, going to have that historic moment, as you noted, pleading not guilty for the second time in just a matter of months. >> all right, kaitlan collins in miami outside the courthouse, thank you so much. erin? >> all right, jake, what are the security preparations here? we're expecting tens of thousands of people, maybe 50,000 people to show up, around trump's court appearance. we just don't know. federal and local law enforcement officials have been working together to try to come up with a plan. and they did not have any heads up on this coming. so, you can obviously -- a very sophisticated police department, but not a lot of time. and they are concerned about how many people may show up to support the former president. and then counter protesters. sources familiar with the latest intelligence spoke to our simone prokupecz, who joins us now. and shimon, i know you've been talking about the concerns of tens of thousands, maybe 50,000 people showing up and just sort of converging upon that courthouse. are there specific concerns that authorities have? >> well, certainly it's the large number of groups, people who can descend on this courthouse. and the big question, whether or not, you know, law enforcement can adequately respond. the miami police certainly say they can adequately respond. they're ready to respond. of course, a lot of law enforcement officials thinking about january 6th, with all these events, certainly involving the former president, that is something they think about. when you look at the area here, we have our drone up over the area, you can just see how wide open a lot of the space is. and certainly one of things they're concerned about is the protesters and supporters gathering all across the streets. right now, there is no designated area for the supporters and protesters to go. so, the police are saying they're kind of going to let them go. and they're gonna see how this develops. and if no one shows up if, there aren't as many people, then they're just going to sort of leave them alone. but if it gets too crowded, to pack, now we may see them placed in different areas. but there is really no plan that we are aware of. and the other thing, erin, you really can see there's not a lot of security around here at the moment. it's much different than what we saw two months ago in manhattan, where even the night before, there were barricades and several law enforcement officers and police officers all across the property. we're not seeing any of that here tonight. obviously and hopefully, that is going to change tomorrow. today, police really would not talk about their plans. they just said they're going to be ready. and they say that people should not fear anything, others to be prepared, erin. >> well, shimon, thank you very much. jake, it is amazing, right, they just didn't have much warning. so, you know, you see right now, you don't see a lot of security, but you could see tens of thousands of people there tomorrow. >> not difficult to imagine, unfortunately. joining us here at the table, doctor donell harvin, former chief of homeland security for washington, d. c., along with john king, jamie gangel, elie honig. and i know we have a lot of questions for you. so, i will take to, and i'll let everybody else ask questions about your expertise. because obviously, just for people who don't know, you are sounding the alarms from homeland security for d. c. before january 6th. and sadly, a lot of your alarms were unheeded. the rhetoric online that we're seeing now, that we're hearing now, not just online, but you know, publicly from members of congress, et cetera, how does it compare with what you saw on january 6th? >> so, currently what we're seeing is not the volume of rhetoric we saw on january 6th, but that shouldn't give anyone comfort, because a lot of these individuals have stopped posting things, what we call open source. and we collect open source intelligence and what we call wasn't. they've gone to these encrypted chat rooms, and they're doing their planning privately. what we have seen, however, far more violence in rhetoric. on january 6th, we did not see anything about civil war or calls to arms, as much as we're seeing now. so, there is less chatter, if you will, but a lot more violence. >> so, obviously florida, new york, washington, d. c., all very different places. washington, d. c. and new york, very strict gun control measures, mayors and governors that are not exactly donald trump's biggest fans. florida, very permissive gun laws, and a governor who's trying to appeal to donald trump's fans. how concerned are you about these two different situations? >> well, i don't want to be the procrastinator, but, you know, two entirely different scenarios. a lot of the individuals coming from january 6th were coming from florida. so, the d. c. mayor made it very clear that guns were not allowed. mayor adams did likewise in new york city. you know, florida as very lax gun laws. so, the question is, there is a lot of talk, not from trump, but from a lot of the individuals in his orbit talking about, you know, the second amendment, arming yourselves. and this really plays into specific groups that are extremely violent, accelerationist groups. they've been plotting for decades for this race, for the civil war. so, well these words may just be rhetoric for politicians or other individuals who are influencers, this is real true red meat for the people who are unstable, who have been waiting for this call for many years. >> to that point, and again, a little bit more granular to the question jake asked first, based on your experience on january 6th, you say this, less chatter, but it's more violent. in looking at, eight, what you think was miss before january 6th, and b, going through that in hindsight, going through the postings and sorting, whether there are certain words, certain language, that would help you understand this is just somebody vending? you may not like, it but it's their first amendment right? and oh, this person is serious. is there any lesson from january 6th, certain words, certain people, and a pattern of communication that coordinates and says violence is coming, as opposed to somebody just venting? >> yeah, well, you have to look at the previous posts. and you have to look at, you know, they're posting with guns. and that's what we saw a lot of on january six. i will tell you the reason why we actually have a democracy right now is because people didn't bring guns en masse to d. c.. if those individuals had brought guns to d. c., in violation of d. c. rules, this will be a whole different conversation. so, what we're talking about in florida, miami right now, right now, tomorrow, it's really uncharted waters for us. in terms of the threat assessment that every state and local has the capability to do, everyone has different protocols. some of it is the language. some of it is where they're posting it. and some of it is really based on good old-fashioned tips and leads. so goes back to if you see something, say something. a lot of these individuals we saw on january 6th were actually turned in by family members, a loved one who saw them on television. so, what we would need right now is to engage the public to really help defray any issues that may come about. waiting for government to solve your homeland security problems is obviously not going to really play out really well. >> we saw a new york lockdown in a remarkable way when trump was arrested there. just now with shimon, we saw some yellow police tape there. it's shockingly different. if you are responsible right now for keeping the peace tomorrow, what is going to keep you up tonight? >> we saw that at the same time. i can only hope there is a better security posture that's going to happen tonight or tomorrow before the protests come. that yellow crime scene tape is for law-abiding people who are going to recognize that as a do not enter area and not pass. we saw the u.s. capitol police set up a bike rack that was -- actually use as projectiles against us. so, my hope is there going to have more security rolled out at some point tonight or tomorrow. i would have eight foot non scalable fans like we have around the capitol every inauguration. that takes some time to set up. i don't think they will get that up by tomorrow. i'd be pretty concerned based on what shimon was just showing us. >> how strong of the oath keepers and proud boys now, as compared to january 6th? and have the prosecutions of the leaders of those organizations had any impact? >> i don't know intrinsically how strong the membership is. what i can tell you is that with the leaked oath keepers roster that we saw last year, what is concerning for a lot of us in this business is that there are individuals in positions of public trust, law enforcement, military, police chiefs, that were actually on that list. so, what we're combatting right now behind the scenes is radicalization actually within the ranks of law enforcement, retired military, and current military. i will also tell you that when i was in a position of monitoring these groups, the oath keepers and proud boys weren't our biggest threat, right. there are groups out there that you have not heard about that we will not talk about in this program that are far more dangerous, far more prepared, and they're not going to go out there and show themselves until it's time to mobilize. and my concern is when donald trump says see you in miami, when kari lake says you know, you're gonna have to go through 70 plus million americans with guns, right, that's the call they've been waiting for for decades. they've been arming for decades, ever since waco and ruby ridge, and this may be their trigger. >> you donell harvin, thank you so much, really appreciate it. coming up next, we're going to dissect the legal side of this indictment, and politically, how more of donald trump's 2024 rivals are starting to attack him over the arrest and arraignment. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ baby i hear one every night... every night. okay. i'll work on that. the queen sleep number c2 smart bed is now only $899. save $200. plus, 48-month financing on all beds. shop now only at sleep number. meet gold bond healing. a powerhouse lotion that moisturizes, heals, and smooths dry skin. with 7 moisturizers and 3 vitamins, you can pay more but you can't get more. gold bond. champion your skin. oh ms flores. you're the leader of many and pet wrangler, too. so becoming a student again might seem impossible. national university is here to support all of you. national university. supporting the whole you. we're carvana the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100 percent online now we've created a brand new way for you to sell your car whether it's a year old, or a few years old we want to buy your car so go to carvana enter your license plate answer a few questions and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds when you're ready we'll come to you pay you on the spot and pick up your car that's it so ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way at carvana >> in just a matter of hours, donald trump will be on the first former american president face federal criminal charges. a total of 37 counts, and they include everything from willfully withholding national defense information, conspiracy with a top aide to hide documents from the government, disseminating that information to others. joining the table here, john miller, senior chief law enforcement analyst, also deputy commissioner for counterterrorism for the nypd, and karen friedman agnifilo, cnn legal analyst, former chief assistant to the manhattan d. a.'s office. karen, let me start with you. we don't know what will get tomorrow. we may get nothing tomorrow in terms of seeing him. we may not get pictures, we may not get video, we may not see the doj mugshot, john was just saying, we know that is moving its doj policy. we may not hear anything. all right, so what does all that? mean we're just gonna find out the plate? >> so, what's going to happen tomorrow is the magistrate judge who was overseeing this case has said there will be no cameras in this courtroom, no electronic devices, which is why we will not see the things you are talking about. but there will be people in the courtroom who will come out and tell us what they saw and what happened. they will also be a stenographer who's taking minutes and i'm sure we'll see the minutes of the proceeding tomorrow, so know what was said and what was done. >> so we'll know the direct quotes of what he said? >> and there will be a sketch artist, i'm sure, who will be making sketches and that sort of thing. so, i think we'll have a lot of information tomorrow. and if you'll recall, when donald trump's first arraigned in new york state court, we also had to wait until afterwards, other than the one photograph that the judge allowed reporters to go in and take, he also had a similar, just had an embargo. there was no electronic devices, and we all sat there waiting for the information to come out in the transcripts. >> and -- obviously remember that case, two months ago, your talk about alvin bragg in new york. the former president kept his answers very thérèse. >> he did, and also afterwards, he was not willing to answer any questions to the media, which surprised a lot of people. this is likely going to be something similar, because a campaign event later on that he's reserved for that moment in. time but will be very difficult to muzzle this person in a particular way that i think his lawyers are interested in hearing. on the lower point, remember, there are codefendants in this matter. i'll be very curious to see if at the end of tomorrow we still have one legal defense team, or if there is an eye towards having separate council, which would move towards a thing called severance, when one defendant does not want to try with the other. that's a possibility here, but who foots that they will be a different thing. but if their interests are totally aligned, and the interests of officiants our courts require them to be together, they will remain together. if that changes, will start to know a little bit more tomorrow. >> and what we don't know, john, of course, as we look at all this, is with all the information in the indictment, why was walt nauta not given an opportunity to flip on trump before this point, or not? did they ever say, well, actually, i know you are telling us you don't know these things, but we have you on tape, and we have all of it. we don't know if he was ever confined with that, or whether only now he is finding out the truth, if he believes what he sees there. >> so, we don't know that. but there are these cases where there are two bites at this apple. he may be approached by agents are prosecutors early on to say, as they put it, do you want to come on team america and, you know, tell us what you know, and testify as a witness? or you could end up as a defendant. that may or may not have happened at some stage, as you point out. but as laura points out, in the second instance, there comes this awakening, this moment of reality where you, or some other lawyer, realizes, you know, you guys are charged together, but it is not in your interest to go to trial together because, you know, your defense maybe he told me to do it. and that's where you start to think about asking the court for a severance, asking for a different, lawyer if your lawyer is being paid for by the lead defendant. >> and you are familiar with nauta, who is of course the alleged coconspirator in the indictment. . you know, it was funny, ty cobb, former white house attorney, was telling me today, all the things you could say about walt nauta, he is a patriot. and when the greatest honors in his life was being a valet for the president of the united states. how do you think this moment is affecting him? because he has become, along with the on named employee number two, perhaps the most important person in this case. >> right, because he had a 20 -year long career in the navy, and when the highest things you can reach the personal age of the president. and what that looks like in the west wing is he would be somebody who would fetch this for me, get me a diet coke, bring this. and when you have a level of personal proximity that walt did in the west wing, when i was there, and by the time he left office, i think this has to be a moment where somebody who wore the uniform in service and has served our country has to think long and hard about perhaps you are drawn into the former presidents magnetism, perhaps you felt like you were doing something patriotic by standing by him. maybe believe in his policies. but this is, this is your country charging that former president. i would hope for his sake, i've seen way too many my old colleagues and friends set up with $10,000 worth of legal bills. he's better if he separates him self on the former president. we're gonna get a speech, most likely from donald trump tomorrow night. he is struggling to find attorneys right now. that's partially because he's probably going to step into incriminating himself even further, as he talks more in the speeches that he just tomorrow night. this is not a man of discipline. >> kara, can i just say, what if you say earlier today? pardon me if i'm putting it on the public imagination. but maga in attorney lion's make attorneys get attorneys. >> it's true. >> i mean, in terms of finding someone represent, it's not easy. >> it's not easy because many lawyers he's already representative are themselves having to get attorneys, and whether it's prosecuted, find, et cetera. >> that's why corcoran, of course, has i'm sure, has that recorded audio footage that is essentially in full sway mode, knowing what happened with michael cohen and beyond to suggest, look, i'm gonna contemporaneously record what i've said. i will say, keep a look out, if corcoran does ultimately testified a trial, a cross-examination point will be, well, he recorded this, but you didn't resign from actually being his attorney at that point in time. so, there will be questions about the tenure of his actual relationship, but it's a very interesting point that they're trying to make sure that there is coverage in that respect. >> so, are we going to start to see, scott, any change in the gop field? we saw a little bit of a shift, nikki haley, right, on the eve of the indictment, a tutor justice system in america. she may or may not have used the word witch hunt, but that is the whole point. and now, it's if these are serious charges. >> tonight, chris christie saying you can have your issues about restoring trust in the doj. that does not mean what trump did is okay, and there's no double standard in this case. we see more. that >> i think if pressed some of these people would be forced to admit the national security implications here. but i think you'll see anyone go as far as what chris christie or isa hutchinson said. i was a little surprised to see nikki haley, well, i guess i was not surprised, this is her reputation. i think most republican voters, you saw the polling over the weekend, they think this is political, they think it's a two to the system, they think it's a selective punishment, they're out to get trump. so, these people running for president, they can read a poll and they know all of that. so, i don't expect to see a big change. after advil dual action back pain... yo! uh! ha! ha! 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[music plays] ♪ if your instinct is to help. ♪ then clearly you care. ♪ you have what it takes to be a care professional. home instead. apply now and begin your career in caring. hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the united states and all around the world. you are watching cnn newsroom. i'm rosemary church. just ahead, dona