Transcripts For CNN Inside Politics With Abby Phillip 202407

Transcripts For CNN Inside Politics With Abby Phillip 20240706



the president makes it official. he's running for re-election. >> we made a lot of progress. let's finish the job. >> most voters think he's still better than the alternative. plus historic testimony. >> this is an astonishing moment in our legal and political history. >> like pence testified before a grand jury investigating trump's efforts to overturn the election. are prosecutors moving closer to indicting the former president? and desantis versus disney. >> the days of putting one company on a pedestal are over. >> the would-be presidential candidate may have picked a fight he can't win. so why doesn't he just -- ♪ let it go, let it go ♪ welcome to "inside politics," i'm manu raju in for abby phillip. this morning president biden wakes up marking the end of his very first week as an official 2024 candidate. biden launched his re-election bid on tuesday setting up a battle which he must convince voters that he deserves to remain in the white house for another four years. now he faced a different type of battle last night. trying to convince not voters, but the star-studded audience at the white house correspondents dinner as his skills as a comedian. he did not shy away from the biggest question looming over his re-election bid. his age. >> i believe in the first amendment. not just because my good friend jimmy madison wrote it. i get that age is completely reasonable issue. it is on everybody's mind. and everyone, by everyone, i mean "the new york times." headline, biden's advanced age is a big issue. trump's however is not. so that was a new york spot. apologize. you might think i don't like rupert murdoch. that's simply not true. how could i dislike a guy who makes me look like harry styles. >> he also took time last night as most presidents do at this annual event to poke fun at his political opponents on the other side of the aisle. >> and please be safe. if you find yourself disoriented or confused, it is either drunk or marg or a taylor green. >> i had a lot of ron desantis jokes ready. but mickey mouse beat the hell out of me and got there first. >> now at the end of it all he made sure to hit home at the central message of his campaign loss. the fight for the soul of the nation he said is far from over. >> i like to make a toast, seriously. that this inflection point in history, let us commit and we'll be a nation that will embrace light over darkness, truth over lies, and finally, finally, finally, restore the soul of the nation. here-here. >> now let's discuss all of this and more with our great panel. heather cagle, "new york times" national political reporter and the host of the run up podcast astead herndon and cnn's number wiz harry enten and eve a mckend. thank you all for joining us. biden's campaign message, here is basically, i'm better than the alternative and look at how the new yorker puts it in their headline, joe biden's 2024 opening argument, it is me or the abyss. he's not talking about what he'll do in the next four years. but he's trying to say he's warning about his opponents. is that a winning message here? >> that is clearly the strategy. even when you saw the re-election video that came out on tuesday. that was very light on policy. even though this is a white house that think it has a lot of policy issues to run on, it was heavy on that message, about soul of the nation. this is how biden sees his own legacy, his own place in this history. he wants to continue that through line that began when he rab for president the first time saying that he could heal the soul of the nation and that is because democrats know their best arguments to voters is not to fight on the merits of this white house administration, but to look to the other side of the republican party that is still in chaos. we were at the dnc and they were very clear that unity around joe biden is not because they see the kind of evidence on the ground, they know those approval numbers are lower, they know there is some interest in voters looking at other places. they think it is because they have confidence that the other side is a option that will bring voters back to biden. that is what is really clarifying this campaign and that is what we see as the initial messages. me, better than the alternative and the abyss. >> and we've heard a lot about his age. he told reporter this is week he does not feel 80 years old. but listen to how some of the democrats explained his age and it being an issue next year. >> i think joe biden is agile, it capable, his record of leadership both at home and abroad makes him imminently qualified and we should be folk you using on the wiz zom and experience he brings to the job. >> i think people should judge presidents on their performance and record and not on their age and the president has a great record. >> i think age is one thing. i think experience is another thing. if you believe in the democracy, you want to see more people vote, not fewer people vote, i think the choice is pretty clear and that choice is biden. >> how do you think plays with average voters? >> i mean, i think they're trying to neutralize it coming out of the gate. and like biden said last night, trump, who is the leading gop candidate, is not that many years behind him, quite frankly. and people don't seem to make as big of a deal about it because trump has so many controversies. and like astead said, biden said don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the turnive and that is the campaign. and republicans control the house, there is not much that gets done on the hill the next two years. so there is not a lot of policy for them to run on. >> go ahead. >> i would say, look, we just came off a midterm election when joe biden's approval rating was lower than it was and democrats have a best midterm ever, or in the last century. so why not run the same playbook. although i will say it does feel like deja vu. with 2016 with two candidates with favorable ratings, well south of where their unfavorable ratings were. but i think the key differences right now, if you look at the polls, the key group, the voters who have a favorable rating of neither trump or biden, and who are they going for? that is joe biden by ten points. >> and you mentioned the polls, a snap of the numbers. cnn shows that he's not been above 45% really since 2021. so that is a huge issue. i do want to just ask you, eva, about the -- how the republicans are playing the age issue. nikki haley made some comment this is week that got some attention. >> i think that we could all be very clear and say with a matter of fact that if you vote for joe biden, you really are counting on a president harris, because the idea that he could make it until 86 years old is not -- is not something that i think is likely. >> so she said making it to 86 years old is not something that i think is likely. 48% say that the people who don't want biden to run cite age as a major issue here. but is there a risk of taking it too far? >> yes. and certainly in framing it in those dcrass terms that she did could be viewed by some voters as problematic. pu look, you can't outrun aging. he has to be something he has to contend with. but i don't think that we should diminish the fact that voters are somewhat sophisticated. so the democrats that are going to be supporting president biden, it is not so much about him all of the time. they know his age and his vulnerabilities. it is about using him as a vehicle to accomplish a whole host of issues. so that is what you cannot forget in this election. republicans will want to talk all about age. but that is not the only factor. >> and underlying all of this will be vice president harris. something would happen, she would be president. she's going to be an issue throughout this campaign. in the announcement video, 2024 announcement video, three minutes long, and 15 appearances of kamala harris in this video. that was -- it was interesting. she doesn't have the greatest favorable ratings herself. but they're highlighting her, what do you make of that? >> they've come out and know she has been someone that has faced questions about whether she was a drag on the ticket and you see democrats doing it kind of proactive defense of that. that is not only including her in the campaign, i think you saw folks menging that yesterday. kind of framing her as underestimated, as a former chief of staff klain made that argument this week. an this is a runway for the vice president to try to flip that narrative as you see more on the campaign trail, i think republicans will try to make the argument, maybe more subtly than nikki haley, but vie to make the vice president a larger issue on the vice president. the onus is on the vice president to answer some of the questions so she could be a leader and galvanizer for the democratic party. i remember when she was chosen, joe biden campaign was saying someone who would boost them with young people and women and we haven't seen that come to fruition. but it is a time and window this summer as they move into the campaign where the spotlight is on her to see if she could turn that around. >> this town is really tough on her. and she is scrutinized, it is more established now, more than any vice president that we can remember. but i think that is a really washington conversation. you bring the vice president to any campus, any hbcu campus, and it really animates those folks. and those are the core constituencies that they're going to have to get engaged and to turn out to vote. >> and biden has been struggling with black voters. how did kamala harris play in a general election? >> with biden's age, maybe a vice president that plays more than it does, but people vote for the top of the ticket, they don't vote for the bottom of the ticket. dan quayle has the lowest ratings for anyone for vice president and they didn't say that is the reason that george h.w. bush is failing and then lost. and we have tables and it turns out that joe biden is expected to live past 86 years old. so it is not only crass, it is wrong. >> there you go. that is why your the data wiz. but also, data about joe biden and how enthusiasm or lack there of within the democratic party. check out this poll from fox news from a few days ago about his only two declared candidates here in the case. robert kennedy jr. has 19% in this race. marry am williamson at 9%. so these candidates, the chances of defeating him in a primary very small but still pulling in 28% of the vote. >> i was talking to harry about this earlier. the numbers to me, i'm not a pollster, seem a little nutty. it is like, do they -- are these credible polls and he could get more into that. but i think like eva said, biden is a vessel democrats to accomplish the things they want to accomplish and he's a nice steady hand and they may not be that excited about him overall but they see him as continuity and that is important for a lot of people right now. and one more thing on harris, i think the white houses that given her a platform and a portfolio, abortion rights, gun rights, she flew down to tennessee that she feels comfortable with and that she is very good at promoting and talking about. we think back to the early days of the administration, she was supposed to solve the border crisis. i mean, would could even do that. that is a thankless task. so i think she's coming into her own. >> and gave her that difficult task, voting risks and things that were difficult, they didn't pass the legislation in the senate. we'll see if that has any impact in the campaign trail. but next for us, a history-making moment. former vice president pence testifies about his former boss. but what exactly did he say? 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thank you, chef. control for parents. nice. one bank for both. chase. make more of what's yours. it is a scene out of a tom clancy novel. a former vice president makes history by testifying against his ex boss before a criminal grand jury. but this is not fiction. it is actually the stunning reality of the trump era. now mike pence spence more than five hours on thursday answering questions under oath about his discussions with donald trump in the days leading up to january 6. those conversations have been of keen interest to prosecutors probing trump's efforts to overturn the election, pence could be a star witness in any potential future trial. elliott williams joins us for this part of the discussion. and, elliott, why don't you give us your view of the significance of this kind of testimony and history-making nature of it as well. >> there is two sides. it is history-making in that you have a vice president of the united states submitting to the criminal justice system in some way. he has been testifying as a witness just like any other. that is a big deal. and we lose sight of the moments given we have so many of them day after day it seems. on the other hand, the grand jury is about as mundane a process a any legal one. there is not a lot of pomp and circumstance. it is literally like going to the dmv and it happens every single day in courtrooms or clouss across the country. and we can't forget that. he's still at the end of the day just a witness. now, one with very important job and with a lot of proximity to someone who is being investigated by the justice department. but he's still just a witness providing testimony just like anybody else, just like an eyewitness or a guy cleaning mar-a-lago or anything else, testifying about the things that they saw or heard. >> and he has sort of downplayed his -- what he's known and his discussions with donald trump. this is how mike pence has discussed his -- his interactions with the former president. >> i obviously have nothing to hide. i've been speaking about those days, write being them extensively over the last two years. but i've nothing to hide. i've written and spoken extensively about that day. i've been speaking very openly and written very extensively about the events leading up to january 6. the story that i've been telling the american people all across country, the story that i wrote in the pages of my memoir, that is what i will tell in that setting as well. >> but elliott, these are discussions that he has chosen to relay in his book. and in other interactions with the press. he'll be getting questions about things that perhaps he's not revealed before? >> he certainly could answer questions about things he hasn't revealed before. now, just for a little bit of quick background. he had sort of challenged the subpoena that was bringing him in to testify on account of the fact that while he's the vice president of the united states, serving as the president of the senate, meaning that he -- some of his conversations should be protected. he lost a big part of that. and now will be asked many questions about conversations he had firsthand with the president. now certainly that didn't appear in his book. how he might have been pressured by the president to take actions on january 6. other things he'd overheard wouldn't have appeared in his book. so it is a little bit misleading, but to say i written everything in my book that are certainly value to the criminal justice situation. >> and while all of this is happening, there are other legal issues that trump has had to g deal with. it is hard to keep track. including in new york, a civil lawsuit by e. jean carroll who declared that donald trump raped her in a clothing room 30 years ago. trump denies that. but there are so many issues that trump is facing, does this break through to republican voters, this really serious allegation from someone who claimed that trump raped her? >> i was surprised, we did not hear about this on the hill this week. they were trying to pass this giant debt limit in the house but i stopped and thought about it, there are so many controversies around him that do any of them really break through at this point? and even the indictment, in new york, i mean, maybe in one of the other cases, a special council cases on in georgia leads to charges, maybe that breaks through. but at this point, people just can't keep up. they can't keep their head above water. >> and that is really clear. which one of the next charges, for other candidates or other republicans, there is some sense that georgia or something more focused on donald trump's actions would break through so voters. and that is how we think about what is breaking through and what is not. it is donald trump's messages. these legal questions have caused him to be more open about having a plan about weaponization and retribution. that language is so ingrained now in the republican primary, they kind of flipped and reversed the argument. we're not seeing it break through in terms of republican voters hold donald trump quote/unquote accountable or flee him in polling but we are seeing a republican base that is more hardened against the federal government and using that language as a means to rile up their voting base. so it is having a effect politically on the messaging. i don't think it is having a support effect on donald trump. it is not causing him to lose voters. it is changing the way he's talking about himself and what he'll do if he's elected. >> and to get back on the e. jean carroll case, because it is pretty stunning testimony in a lot of ways and interesting the way that the trump team has tried to push back against this. this is just an excerpt of back and forth between trump's attorney and e. jean carol. tacopina said you never screamed at donald trump. she said i'm not a screamer and i was in too much panic. i was fighting. the trump attorney goes on to say when your fighting and being sexually assaulted because you're not a screaming, i'm not a screamer and this goes back and forth and she said you can't beat up on me for not screaming. what do you think of that legal strategy, going after this witness, making the serious allegations? >> there are two things going on here. sexual assault cases could be incredibly hard to establish, because unlike many other types of crime, you do have eyewitness or video and it is just the credibility of a witness on the stand. and we have a long history in america of not treating victims of sexual violence well in courtrooms. so there is that. now this is not a criminal case and all she has to establish is there a preponderance of the evidence. that said that this assault happened. so she as a relatively low burden, she just has to make it through this cross-examination. to the point of it backfiring, i don't know. because at end of the day cross-examinations are very aggressive and joe taco pena has been doing this for a very long time and despite the bluster around him, he's a skilled attorney. so we'll see how it plays. but i think the thing, if it helps her, it is the low burden she has to clear. >> and this is happening if the heat of the presidential campaign. there is a poll from pbs that came out last week saying 63% of republicans would still want donald trump to be president again even if found guilty of a crime. just 17% of college graduates, 21% of independents. you were down with asa hutchinson who announced in arkansas. he's trying to be the anti-trump candidate. he's having a difficult time getting traction in the polls. is there a lane like that after reporting on the ground? >> we certainly have to see. i think asa hutchinson is a institutionalist in the way that president biden is. two term republican governor. i think in the republican party of the past, he would have really been a formidable opponent or contrast to president biden. but if this republican party, that sort of seems to be defined by bomb bast, it seems like he's going to have a difficult time. but certainly his team thinks there is a viable path and that there -- that the trump party is an anomaly and that he isn't the anomaly, he is the representative of the brand. >> and there is still a long ways to go here. up next for us, a debt default is looming. president biden and kevin mccarthy at an impasse. but who will blink first? that is coming up. if you wake up thinking about the market and want to make the right moves fast... get decision tech from felity. 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>> i think it is a great question. so far, democrats are not budging on this. you know, they want to separate, raise the debt ceiling and then we will have funding discussions if you want. but we won't do them at the same time. think i question on the hill is how tenable is this position. we're getting closer to this x day. it could be in june or july or in a week or two we should hear more from treasury and know when that date is. but if you look at mccarthy, did he pass this, you're right. but he to reopen it at the last minute after vowing woe not to get the votes. and this is the easiest thing that he will do in this process. it is loaded up with republican goodies. so i think you look at this and if your mccarthy, you know that this is not what is going to be passed into law. this is not the final bill. but you're think, okay, i used a lot to get this across the finish line and how do i maneuver from here. >> and the white house said no negotiations over the debt limit. and the question is how long will that position be tenable? a number of moderate democrats like jarmd goaden of maine told me he needs to negotiate and people like mitt romney calling saying they'll stick with the house republican position and demand this negotiation. can the white house sustain that level of pressure? >> that is the key question around this. i think we see an increasing amount of that moderate slice of democrats trying to bring the white house to the negotiating table but that is not the party at large. they're trying to allow prooish president biden to maintain that position and as the default gets closer an the fear that democrats will be blamed for any type of financial economic downturn, that would put an increased set of pressure on the white house to come to the negotiating table. but i think when we look from the election side, where i sit, this all kind of adds up to the brinksmanship feeling that people feel about dysfunction in washington and that is part of the thing that biden said he would try to solve. >> exactly. >> there is a political pressure on him to make washington work and i think in someone who has positioned himself as willing to talk to the other side and coming to the table. it might be harder for him to maintain that lane considering it is part of his brand to come to the other side. >> how likely to investors see a default happening? >> so basically the chance of a default actually happening is rising in the minds of investors, right. but what i will point out is that the cost to ensure government bonds is rising but the kans is still less than 1%. that is the good news. but it is been rising rapidly last few days after the republicans passed their bill. and i would note we're well pass the chance of a 1 in 200 chance. so it is a 1 in 100 or a 1 in 200 chance and the idea that we're in that zone of less than 1%, but the fact that it is greater than one in 200 does not make me feel particularly good at this particular point. >> yeah, i will just say that as i talk to voters, it not clear that this registers, talking about the debt ceiling. but i think that we're trying to figure out which side is going to get blamed if we do sort of careen tort an economic crisis. i think both sides -- i think both democrats and republicans are going to face the heat if there are tangible impact on people. if it changes the reality of every day life for americans. senator mcconnell talking about another issue of brinksmanship, not the debt crisis but discussing the perspective of a government shutdown. he described it as mutually ass assured destruction and that is always the case in these kind of disputes. >> but the house democrats are looking at president biden saying if that economic downturn is something blamed on the white house, that is something that they would take because that is something that could shift his -- what he feels is a strong position heading into this year. one of the big variables is whether the economy should stay where it is. >> i want to shift the focus to someone central in all of this, joe manchin of west virginia, he's been calling for these negotiations and siding with kevin mccarthy and facing the prospects of a difficult re-election bid in 2024 if he decides to run. this past week he got a significant opponent jim justice, the governor of the state. who has a primary -- to take on manchin if he decided to run. the question is how does manchin position himself. he's trying to be the thorn in the side of joe biden saying he's independent, but listen how to one democratic senator sees senator manchin. >> he voted with us on all of the key measures that really forged a new era for the democratic party. at heart he's a democrat. and he votes with democrats. my guess is the overwhelming majority of time. we want joe manchin back in the united states senate. >> oh, joe manchin. no, no, we don't want the senator from liberal connecticut saying that. my god. >> that doesn't play so well in west virginia. >> i don't think so. unless it is the 1992 election, maybe then it might play, but west virginia has gone through a political transformation since that point. i don't know if joe manchin will run for re-election. he said i'm going to run for some office. maybe he'll switch jobs for justice and go back to being governor. >> and the point, is he is the only democrat that would win that seat. >> he's one of two democrats up for re-election in trump won by double-digits and jim justice is cutting that clip as we speak. but joe manchin, they've given him a lot of latitude. he said he'll vote to repeal the inflation reduction act and opposed some of biden's key nominees, and he might oppose another labor secretary nominee. so i think democrats realize that they need him to win that seat and when you talk to them on the hill and i did this week, are you kind of chafed by all of this, and they're like know, this is what he needs to do so win and as nancy pelosi said, just win big. >> manchin has not made a decision on whether run and he said he will wait until the end of the january and maybe january. coming up, the mouse fights back, the gloves are off as disney sued ron desantis in an escalating ongoing feud. get t started today with verizn business. it's your business. it's your verizon. 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>> well governor desantis sort of thrives on these cultural battles. this is where he seems to be most comfortable. so i understand where he just won't let this go. but i do wonder about the sustainability of this argument, especially when you have your eye towards a general election and you're trying to clear republican primary. yes, this battle is attractive to the base. but what about general election voters? do they really care about you goes back and forth with disney? and it does disrupt the thesis that republicans have elevated that they are pro-business. that they have fidelity toward the business community. do disney is one of the biggest employers in that state. governor hutchinson on our air this morning alluded to that. and he said that he as a republican doesn't understand it because when he governed arkansas it was always in an effort to tract and retain businesses. >> and you're starting to see the criticism from presidential candidates going up against ron desantis. assuming he runs and we all expect that he will. this is how nikki haley messaged this earlier this week. >> south carolina was a very anti-woke state and it still is and if disney would like to move their hundreds of thousands of jobs to south carolina and bring billions of dollars with them and i'll be happy to introduce to south carolina and introduce them the governor and the legislature that would welcome it. >> where are republican voters in the haley view of the world or the desantis view? >> you mentioned that poll that showed that the majority of republicans do agree with ron desantis on disney. but there is still a sizable portion, one-third of the republican electorate that disagrees with desantis. and if you look at the republican primary polling, we're talking about that fox news poll, back if february, ron desantis was trailing by 15 points and now trailing by 32 points. ron desantis at this particular point was polling if the low 20s, near rfk on the democratic side. i do not they thats in a enviable position who spouts on conspiracy theories about vaccines. and we're talking about so you that general election, look at the reuters ipsos poll last month what we saw that desantis was polling better against biden than trump. what happened this month? he's polling worse against joe biden and donald trump. so all of a sudden, your big argument toward the general election might be going adios amigos because it is not working anyway. >> it is interesting that desantis allies, the superpac have been going after nikki haley and trying to essentially -- going after her and suggesting an alternative to trump. this is a tweet from one of the superpacs going after haley calling her nikki mouse. but why -- what is your take of your effort to punch at haley? >> there is the general election problem that desantis has walked in. the fact that his electability argument has been complicated by positions that he took on abortion that might be in line with a primary but disconnected from the general but there is a short-term problem and this issue has put him on the defensive and on the the last three months he's fallen, coming out of the midterms he was a vessel for anti-trumpness in the republican party, the feeling that they needed to turn the page and it reminds me of the roy wood joke he made about this yesterday. as he tried to put meat to the bone it is created more problems for him. and as donald trump has attacked him more, he's not found a way to reflect that back. because the question here is, even if republican voters do agree with him on something like disney, does that make him more of a cultural warrior than donald trump already is. is that a reason they're going to prioritize this over all of the own concerns that donald trump and grievances that he speaks to also. so it is already something with a general election complications an that is why you see them pushing back against folks like haley because the alternatives, the haleys of the world, and the scotts, they're looking at desantis as vulnerable. >> and desantis is clearly and his allies are clearly taking steps for him to run. look the number of bills they're trying to pass here if the final days of the this legislative session in florida. dealing with shielding essentially public records. that people could dig up. opposition researchers could dig up. they're clearly concerned about possible dirt being used against him. things such as deshielding official travel and from visitors logs and things could be off limits and gearing up something about the dirt. >> yeah, i mean, they looked at does he have to resign or not to run. it is interesting, the state legislature is really at his will with this republican supermajority which i think he thinks will help him in the primary as we've noted but how does it help him in the general. but i want to say this disney thing has become such a distraction. look at his big overseas tour that was supposed to introduce him to the world and all of his coverage was his answered to that. >> and it will continue as this lawsuit plays out. coming up next, the best of the last from last night's white house correspondents' dinner. don't miss it. hi, i'm tony hawk, and like many of you, i take a statin to reduce cholesterol, but statins can also deplete coq10 levels. that's why my doctor recommended qunol coq10. qunol has the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol. the brand i trust. my active psoriatic arthritis can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin and less joint pain are possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to skyrizi, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement... and that means everything. ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time to ask your doctor about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. i bought the team! kevin...? 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