streaming division, disney+. the service has been losing money in the face of strong competition from rival companies. now on bbc news, you, me and the big c. cheering and applause hello, everyone. good evening. welcome to you, me and the big c live. woo! hello. i'm lauren mahon, proud founder of girlsvscancer. and he is steve bland, who will always be known as steve bland. if you have just started listening, you are so 2018, hon. where have you been? but we have covered a load of topics and you might find them helpful, or a loved one might find them helpful. we've spoken to all sorts of incredible people — you can find it on bbc sounds or anywhere you get your podcasts. we, tonight, arejoined by actress victoria ekanoye. you may recognise her from gracing the cobbles of coronation street or national favourite the royals. and since her diagnosis of breast cancer in 2021, our wonderful victoria has opened up about her experience and the importance of breast health. and joining victoria, we've got a man who probably needs no introduction to us, because he's very much part of the story, but he might need an introduction to you — one of our favourite oncologists, he's the christie's dr sacha howell. applause sasha, you actually have been a friend of the podcast for a very long time because you treated our rachael, didn't you? yeah, i was involved with the team that treated rachael. i was talking to steve before we came on — i actually only met steve and rachael twice, during herjourney, both times to give her bad news, which was not great. not great for any of us. and more recently, people have seen you in the press and the public eye because you also looked after the amazing sarah harding, and we wanted to talk to you a little bit more about the sarah harding breast cancer appeal that you've been working on towards funding and research. can you tell us more about what that's funding? yeah, thanks. the research is, i think, quite pertinent to tonight. it's about young women. it's trying to identify who is going to get breast cancer at a young age. we know screening starts at age 50 — 47 at a push — but a lot of women develop breast cancer before that age — about a fifth of all cases occur before the age of 50. so, there's already family history clinics out there for women who've got a family history, but most women who develop breast cancer don't have an family history, so our project is trying to look at those risk factors and try and build them together in a model and then, see if we might, in the future, have a system where by age 30, all women would have a risk assessment and those that were at increased risk would then actually have some screening and some opportunities for prevention. can i get a round of applause for that? cheering and applause that is... well, would've helped me, it would have helped you, victoria, it would've helped many people in our audience. you were diagnosed with breast cancer in october 2021, weren't you? yes. i was breastfeeding my son — he was six months old at the time — - and it's so hard because i think, at that point, i whether it's because. you are breastfeeding or because you've a baby, you assume thati all those changes are because of- the hormonal changes and all of that kind - of thing that's going on. i don't know — i'm the . fifth person in my family to develop breast cancer and i'm also a patron - of prevent breast cancer, so i guess i'm grateful — maybe that's the wrong word to use - _ but i am grateful- the experience i have of it really pushed me to go and get it checked. - that's amazing. thankfully, _ i caught it really early because i went straight in. they diagnosed me with dcis, which is ductal carcinoma in situ. _ which basically means that the milk ducts - have turned cancerous. and i also have sickle cell, so i had to have _ a full body blood transfusion before the surgery, - which made us have to wait. so in total, it was about eight weeks i from diagnosis to surgery. by the time i had the surgery, the 4cm had become 7cm. - they'd found micro invasion and then micrometastasesl in my armpit. in eight weeks. so, i don't know how- it's possible because dcis is supposed to be - non—invasive, but it did. and i had to get three opinions to get my diagnosis, _ so my main message always is to advocate for yourself —| you know your body. better than anybody. yeah. before we let you go, because we could talk to you all night but unfortunately, we don't have the theatre all night, i'd just like both of you — sacha, like, cancer has come so far in the last five years since we've been recording. what are the things that excite you in terms of cancer treatment for the next five years? and then, i'd love to ask victoria afterwards — what do you hope for the future of cancer awareness? so, what i suppose would've been called the silver bullet — there's a lot of talk out there about immunotherapy but i am not an immunologist, so i've got to be very careful. but in terms of, you know, the — what used to be called the magic bullet — and i will get told off by any other oncologists who are listening to this — but it's an antibody — like, for example, herceptin that a lot of people have heard of — goes straight to the cancer cell, binds on to the protein. but instead of just being the antibody, it's got chemotherapy all over it, or another drug all over it that actually is then better at killing the cancer cell, and these drugs are showing some really great promise in breast cancer at the moment. that's great news. we love that. is this something - that is being worked on or something that is out there now? - no, they're out there already. they're out there and they're just getting better and better. that's exciting. that's amazing. that's pretty cool, isn't it? yeah, it really is. victoria, what is your — what are your hopes? i guess we leave the medical side of things to you guys. . i think it's, for me, it's - more about us as individuals. as i said, being — advocating for yourself in every aspect of life i but your health is ultimately the number one. _ just really tuning into . yourself, because then, that's half the battle. and when you get that news, you know where you are. - yeah, i agree. well, thank you so much for our lovely first guests, everybody. cheering and applause thank you so much, guys. thank you. take your seat, enjoy the show. someone�*s who has supported us from day one is a wonderful man who was on air with our darling rach when he started on 5 live, so we're going to get the lovely tony livesey up here from 5 live. come on, tony. woo—hoo! applause you're on our stage now. you've interviewed us a few times, it is our turn now. yeah! scoffs just tell us a bit about your own cancer story with your mum and everything, just... yeah. — well, it feeds into this. my mum died from cancer when she was 42 in 1977. it was so 19705, they didn't diagnose it until too late. i could go on for hours, but my family chose not to tell me she even had cancer. so, the phone went on a friday night and my mum was dead, as far as i was concerned. i was 13. so, i've got loads of issues about — anyway, all that, so i did a series for 5 live called losing mum, which dealt with how children deal with that and what should happen and what didn't happen then, and rachael had the idea for the podcast at the same time, so it was all kind of symbiotic. i talked to her, she talked to me, and that's the way it went, really, and she educated me beyond all belief about talking honestly about cancer. i'd say things on air and she'd glare at me — i mean, you know that! i was her radio husband and i only got half of it. laughter but she could deal with situations, rachael, and she's — what you've done, you three and four, isjust absolutely incredible, i feel. i said to you earlier, steve, it's like rachaeljust suddenly said, "marvelavengers, assemble!" and she's got together the best cast... it's incredible, isn't it? because if you look at the jump from — i've got a kind of similar story. my mum's mum died before i was born and the family didn't know until a week or two before she died that she was even ill. and to think, you know, in not actually that long, we've come to the point where people are giving up their wednesday evening to come and hear us talk about cancer. yeah. it's quite a big jump, that, isn't it? i've talked to you often on air, you guys, and debs a load, and rachael, and the archive is such an immense treasure trove. out of all the podcasts the bbc does, i've got friends now who are going through cancer and they're going right back to the start and listening in. one of the other things that was useful to me and specifically with rachael was i remember vividly the day she said to me, "i'm thinking of writing a book." and she was full of self doubt — she'll have gone through all this at home with you — when she was, you know, "will freddie..." you know, "what am writing it for?" etc. and i was able to channel me. i've got have one video of my mum, it's on a little cd, and she'sjust looking at the sea. and i always remember my uncle arthur saying, "your mum "loved the sea." and i didn't know that. and i've latched on to — that's the only thing i know my mum loved, the sea. so i said to rachael, "write everything down. "everything you've ever thought, everything you've ever "watched, every. . . " — you know, freddie will lap it up when he gets older. and i felt, you know, that was very cathartic for rachael, writing that book, i believe. can i ask, because obviously you knew rachael before and during cancer treatment. did you see rachael change in any way once she started the podcast? was there anything you saw in her? she was already a great broadcaster, she became a better broadcaster. she was such a natural broadcaster, but she — she knew her own mind. so through that podcast, you know, like, we're put on earth to do one thing well probably in our lives and we all get remembered for that. she was put on earth to produce that podcast, put you lot together, and save people's lives. notjust their lives, by mental health as well, by allowing them to talk about things, so ijust saw rachael grow as a woman and as a mother and as a wife and as a colleague and, you know, shejust wasn't here long enough, that's the only thing. that is very... tell us a little bit about the about the day of deborah's funeral injune of last year, if you would. well, vicky, isn't it, yeah? i was speaking to vicky earlier on and we were crying together. so, what it was, i got invited to deb's funeral and ijust thought absolutely long and hard about it because whenever i'd spoken to debs on the radio — and i did the last radio interview with debs, when she was in her garden at home, and i said, "i'm not putting the phone down" because i thought i didn't want to finalise everything, so we hung on — it was like, "you put the phone down." "no, you put it down." anyway, so, i was invited to the funeral and i agonised about it and ijust decided not go because i thought, "debs..." if i could say to debs, "should i be at your funeral "with everybody else, or have i got this platform "on the day of the funeral to be able to say to " reiterate her message? " i think i said on air, you know, "i'm not at the funeral. "i'm here to tell you to check your poo." and vicky told me — and, i mean, you're coming up later, so you could tell this story better than me — but she basically said she was leaving the funeral, heard me on the radio and it was very emotional for people who were at the funeral. and, subsequently, about two or three days later, we got a guy on — an ambulance driver — who said he was taking someone to hospital subsequently who'd heard me on the radio talk about what to look for and all the symptoms to look out and he'd said, "i'm here because of that." so that, to me, debs kind of, radiating all the good vibes. but i felt — i agonised and felt quite — i'm good on guilt. laughter whoa! and i felt guilty for ages after not going to that funeral. but especially after speaking to vicky today and that ambulance driver, i feel as though that's what debs would've asked for. it sounds trite... no, no — she would've... she would've — i mean, listen. there was enough of us there wailing like banshees on her behalf. it's what she wanted. she wanted tears, didn't she? she got them, yeah. she got them. but i think what you did for our deb was exactly what the whole reason deb did what she did — was to save lives, to make a difference, and the fact that you were able to do that in that show — and that's just one person you know of in that ambulance. yeah, yeah, exactly, and — but that goes back to just the job you've done and we're all here to blow smoke tonight because... sings # thank you! but... laughter i the job you've done — i knowjust something's occurred to me which i'd forgotten, but a really good friends of mine's wife developed breast cancer, subsequently had a double mastectomy, and ijust put her in touch with rachael. rachael said, "yep," and kind of, rachael personally counselled her. she found the time to do that. do you know what i mean? and so, with that and the public work she did, it's astonishing. do you think all of this has changed the way that you talk about cancer on air now? 0h, massively. i think it's changed the way the whole country talks about cancer — i feel, anyway — because i grew up in a background where, i've just said, nobody said — it was about four hours after my mum died when all the relatives were round the house that my auntie finally told me she'd died of cancer — and even then, i think it was "the c word", it wasn't "cancer". you know, it'sjust unthinkable in this day and age and all power to you guys for doing that. someone had to change — move the dial, change the conversation. and it's now so obvious. it's like why didn't we do that? but that — that's the beauty of what rachael dreamed up and you guys did with her and debs, is you moved that dial and itjust needed doing. applause ok, now, ladies and gents. it's one thing to talk about cancer as we do, it's another thing altogether to make a whole comedy routine all about your stoma. we're going to get her back up now for some more of those stories about what's been up her bum... sarah mills! applause the jokes wrote themselves, lauren. like, when they tell you that they've seen something "angry—looking" up your bum and you're like, "what is it, peering down at you? "what's it cross about?" was it like this? yeah, yeah! like, is it wrinkled and gnarly and, like, is it waiting fora bus? i don't know...like... laughter and, you know, and — and, yeah, like, having colonoscopies — i do encourage everyone to get a colonoscopy if you've been scheduled for one. like, don't be scared of them because they are quite funny at the same time. i mean, you talk about shining light in a dark... laughter how did the audiences react? because maybe, you know, it's quite touchy for some people or it's quite edgy for maybe some...? yeah, it's funny. what i've found is that i... i don't talk about cancer on a saturday night in front of, like, hen dos and stuff like that, so i have to, like — so this has been a beautiful time, like, a beautiful audience to do comedy to because you guys are, like, ready to hear about what i'm talking about. but i have, like some — i have a comedy set that has no cancer in it, i have a comedy set that is all can — you know, my — i did an hour show last year that was all cancer, but that was the point of it, and then, i have a — some that, like, ease people into it gently. gentle cancer. like a colonoscopy. have you found it therapeutic, in terms of dealing with yours? yeah, ithink i have, actually, because i feel very at peace with what's happened to me. but possibly that's because i've come out the other side. i don't know if i'd find it so easy to keep talking about it if i was still being treated. i'm not sure. like, i didn't really do a lot of gigs while i was being treated. i actually did do one gig the night before my surgery and i got the entire audience to say goodbye to my bum hole. laughter that's nice. it was its last outing. thanks for doing everything tonight. applause oh, thank you! you have been amazing. i'm off now. yeah, you can go. anyone�*s who'se ever listened to our podcast or actually read a newspaper, watched the television will know that lastjune, our beloved deborah died. and we're really lucky because joining us today to talk about our deb are two people who know her better than anybody else — and it's her brother and sister. can you welcome ben and sarah up on stage, please? cheering and applause we just want to know, in a room full of people who probably think they know a bit about your sister — you know, we knew deb for four or five years, you know, but you guys, you obviously go a little bit further back than that. just tell us a little bit about your sister. what was she like as a sister? she's always been the same and i don't think cancer changed her, actually, either, so, you know, that was the nice thing. it was her personality from when she was — i mean, i guess i didn't know her as a baby, she was a couple of years older than me. but it's always been her. she's always has to go and do something more. she never settles for... singing — allsinging, dancing... singing, dancing, legs up here, you know, i'm just thinking back on bouncing on the trampoline here. could be taken the wrong way! laughter like, yeah, shejust — anything she did was to the best. she always set the bar here and then set us the challenge to try and beat it, _ and i think the tech side and the geeky side - came out of- the cancer, i'd say, but she had the teacherj in herfor, like, forever, so i think it's the teacher- aspect that would make her want to dig into more or learn more. and kind of make sure everyone else was coming along. with the journey with her. you know, from a — _ when we were kids, i remember we were actually watching some videos the other day of kind - of the gymnastics and stuff, | and she'd always kind ofjust try new things and just do it, basically, _ and kind of— force us in, you know? could we talk a little bit about, you know, fast forward to the rubbish stuff, the cancer stuff. like, what — when did she first articulate to you guys that she wanted to create bowelbabe, and what were your reactions? were you, like, all for it or were you a bit like, "oh god"? i think itjust happened. yeah, to be fair, i think| when you're really close to something, you kind - of forget that it's going on. so, to be honest, you kind of — it wasn't until really this — - well, last year, - that kind of things — you realise yourself the impact, like, i yourselves, the podcast - and what deb's engagement was really like. i think to me, she kind - of was just using it as good outpost and engagement - with the community, but i'm not one for very good social media, so you don't really get - the kind of impact that she has when you're just kind - of seeing her on a sunday lunch or what have you. l i it — yeah, i don't kind of feell like there was a point in time. it think itjust kind _ of organically grew over time. why do you think she did — why do you think, you know, a lot of people have cancer, a lot of people use social media. why do you think deb just caught people's imagination and just became such a big story? i think it'sjust her. relentless acceptance of talking about things so frankly. _ i think she just did what she wanted! i didn't really listen to anyone if she got told not to - and kind ofjust went about things - her own way, really. i always kind of — well, we all did — we told her she needed to rest, but i think we kind of understood, and you guys — and i think at the end of her life that became even more apparently clear that deb's way of surviving and getting through was by doing and having the next thing to focus on and go, go, go. like, i — i mean, deborah achieved more in her last, what was it, seven weeks... yeah, crazy. ..than most people ever do in their life! i mean, she showed us right up! the best—selling book, clothing line, became a dame, raised a few million. she likes setting the bars for us. sorry, can we talk about the dame? she'sjust kind of said, "there is no way you're going to beat me on this one." laughter we've just got to give it to her, really. yeah, i wanted to talk about the damehood because you got to meet prince william, who is your doppelganger. laughter yeah, apparently! i don't get it myself but... yeah, you know, as — - what did debs describe him as? "a really good bloke." it was a pretty surreal day, i guess _ you know, it goes to the, you know. _ literally touching the nation and kind of what her and - yourselves have done on this. it was a pretty crazy few days. what's your kind of abiding memory of your sister? that's a good question. have you got kind of an image or a great time that you just think back and...? it's not actually - the cancer time, i think. it's — i think it'sjust like, no, like, specific image. i it's kind ofjust the annoying, but very caring big sister. - laughter you kind of make sure that you kind of live everythingl really well, but make sure. you're still doing the right — who kind of keeps you - on the right track, but makes sure you are swerving either way _ and would kind of force us - into new experiences, i think. i was gonna — yeah, it's the always doing something fun. i think her and i were were so different. irememberwhen we were driving — i was driving here somewhere — bicester. yeah, obviously! laughter bicester. she's — our ways of shopping are so different. she's like, "i just don't get how we're related." laughter it's like no... but ijust love, like, we did the running — like, we did lots of running together. just go on random, like, ad hoc adventures, like, "i'm bored." i think the spontaneity of her, really, is how i remember her. and just her laugh. i think, bits of the podcast... oh, the cackle. ..at the beginning, yeah. no, it's huge. they were magic, weren't they? well, we adored your sister — everybody here adored your sister. thank you so much for talking to us. thank you so much. we love you guys. applause sighs now, listen... applause continues there is a couple of guys who we really want to get on because they've been really a big part of this story from day one, haven't they? i mean, we're the talent. laughs who brought her? we need to get mike and al on because they've have been backing this thing since day one. they are the brains behind every episode. they make us sound a lot better than we are by editing out the cock—ups, so please welcome al and mike. cheering and applause is there one, like, memory from the pod that you'd look back and you think, "that was a great episode" or... the marathon. yeah! the marathon one was amazing. we got down from salford to london on time, fine. i there wasjust loz and debs to meet us in london, - just minutes away. how late were you ? how late was i? all: late. at least an hour. laughter- and then, the way that debs was so late. - oh, my god! she had to meet us there. she — how she got| through security... there were so many things. going on with terrorist attacks but debs managed to get through everything, - high security, without. a pass, without any id, without us meeting her, just with a big, - floppy hat and, like, "i'm here, i'm here!" it was at the start of the marathon. yeah. so at the start of the marathon, there's lots of different start lines. and she's going across car parks, through fences. she's "i can see you! i can see the tent!" and she's like — and we're like, "debs, do you need someone to come and get you?" "no, i'll be fine!" and then, she was! she was all fine. she was. and then, she sat on a table that she thought was a chair that then collapsed in front of andy murray. laughter 0h, we've had a great time. as someone who does many podcasts — like, you're on the bbc, you've done this for years — like, what's it been like watching this pod develop and grow? because i know when we started it, we just didn't have a plan. we just wanted to do well. but, obviously, we came in as little fledgling ducklings. it — i mean, me and you, we'd — i'd down a call with you guys and it was — you just got in the studio and it was meant to be a pilot and you got up up off the train and you were — and it was like, it was weird. it was like we knew you as soon as you came in. and debs was going mad about something and you were going mad about debs because of something. probably you were both late for the train, ican't remember. sounds like debs. and this is the god's honest truth, and i've done a lot of pods and there's — a couple of them have been really, really successful — a few of them, actually! — not sorry, but! laughter all right! but i've sat — i've only ever sat in a studio and known that a podcast was going to be brilliant. i turned to you and ijust — we were four minutes in, i remember looking at the clock, i was like, "we're four minutes in, al. this is going to be amazing." the rest is history. that was it. well, there's only one way that we could really wrap this up, and i'll be honest — she didn't always get the outro right... laughter ..but there were a couple of occasions that she did, so we're gonna give the last word to our deb. thank you guys for listening. remember, you can contact us on all forms of social media . by using the hashtag #youmebigc. - if you could write a review, leave a rating _ and spread the word about this podcast, i we'd really appreciate it. thank you to everybodyj who has done so so far. goodbye! bye! - ijust nailed that! in one! _ sorry, that was really loud. i never do that! ever! _ cheering and applause thanks for downloading the - you, me and the big c podcasts. don't forget to click subscribe or get more great podcasts at bbc.co.uk/podcasts. - hello there. there was a hard frost across england and wales but plenty of sunshine on wednesday here but we had gale—force gusts of winds and rain further north. this is how we closed out the afternoon in highland. and that weather front responsible for this continues to sink its way steadily south and east. no significant rain by the time it pushes south—east as it comes into this area of high pressure, a band of cloud, light drizzle from east anglia down to cornwall, slowly clearing towards the channel. behind it, some sunshine coming through, a brisk north—westerly wind will continue to feed in showers, particularly the north—west of the great glen and winds still gusting and winds still gusting 40—50mph at times so a noticeable strong westerly wind. temperatures around 7—9 degrees, one or two places if we are lucky just seeing 10 celsius as a high, 50 fahrenheit. as we close out thursday into the early hours of friday, we start to see a contrast, more cloud pushing into the far north, some showery outbreaks of rain here but milder, temperatures holding up above freezing. with clearer skies, temperatures falling just below freezing once again across england and wales so we can't rule out frost and fog again or friday. but high pressure dominates for england and wales, still a bit more of a breeze up into the far north—west and this westerly feed of air will continue to be a story so it will be a slightly milder feel generally across the country, we're likely to see temperatures into double digits. the weather front toppling across the high will bring outbreaks of showery rain into scotland, more cloud, high cloud across northern england and wales as well, highs generally of 9—13 degrees. as we move into the weekend, that milder air will continue to be the story. the high pressure reallyjust sitting across europe and clinging onto central and southern england, with weather fronts toppling across that high. so that means we always run the risk of more cloud and outbreaks of rain, with a stronger wind across the far north and west. there'll be quite a lot of cloud generally on saturday, largely fine and dry for england and wales, and a little bit milder. similar story as well as we go to sunday, watch out for that early morning mist and fog once again. welcome to bbc news. i'm rich preston. our top stories: three days after the earthquakes in turkey and syria, more than 12,000 are dead. it's feared thousands more are still trapped as rescuers work through the night to try to recover more people. turkey's president erdogan acknowledges mistakes were made in the initial response as the extent of the devastation becomes ever clearer. the rescuers say that they will come back tomorrow and the next day. they will return to sites like this for as long as it takes to return loved ones to their relatives. cheering ukraine's president zelensky on his first visit to the uk since the russian invasion

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