america to a state of, quote, godliness. the secret recordings that are creating fresh controversy for supreme court justice samuel alito. plus, a rare op-ed from attorney general merrick garland this morning, defending the doj as the house takes new steps towards holding him in contempt. and later, a primary day battle of wills, how donald trump's endorsement power is colliding with kevin mccarthy's revenge tour in south carolina. great to have you with us. thank you for being here. it is 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. we begin with verdict watch in the federal gun case against hunter biden. the jury back to deliberations this morning after being handed the case yesterday afternoon, following closing arguments where the prosecution called the evidence overwhelming. and the defense argued the prosecution had not proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. nbc's ken dilanian is outside that courthouse in wilmington. also with us, civil rights attorney and former prosecutor charles coleman. and defense attorney misty maris. ken, what do we know about what is happening with jury deliberations so far? >> reporter: well, jury deliberations are secret, so we don't know what's going on inside the jury room obviously. we know they were handed the case with only about an hour left in the day yesterday. and they began this morning at 9:00. we saw hunter biden leave the courthouse shortly after that. we know that the jury forewoman, who is assigned to -- as the forewoman, has a sister with a history of drug issues. though is clean now and is a regular watcher of the evening news. that's all we know about her. so, now the jury has the case and we wait, ana. >> the last thing, of course, on the mines of these jurors were those closing arguments. how did those go? >> reporter: well, the prosecutor gave a dramatic and impassioned closing argument where he talked about the evidence being personal, ugly and overwhelming. and he pointed to the prominent members of the biden family in the courthouse, including the first lady jill biden, and said this is not evidence. you may know these people from the news, but essentially disregard the prominence of this family. and he said that no one is above the law, hunter biden made a choice to buy a gun when he was an illegal user of drugs and now has to live with the consequences. hunter biden's attorney abbie lowell tried to focus on raising reasonable doubts on whether hunter biden was a drug user around the time he bought that gun. he had to overcome a text message two days after hunter biden bought the gun where he said he was using crack cocaine and abbe lowell's story about that is that it wasn't real. it was hunter biden trying to tell his -- the woman he was seeing at the time that he was doing something when he was actually perhaps with another woman. that's going to be a tough one for the jury to swallow. it remains to be seen how it will play. and now we wait. >> and so, charles, you know, some of the evidence in this case includes text messages, pictures, bank records, hunter biden's own memoir, your thoughts on the closing arguments and what hope does the defense have for casting reasonable doubt in the face of straightforward evidence from the government? >> this is a case where the prosecution had a very low bar in terms of what it is they had to satisfy in order to prove the charges against hunter biden. the burden of proof is always the same, that's beyond a reasonable doubt. in terms of the charges and the element, they were very straightforward. i think as you have corroborating evidence, even as you have circumstantial evidence in order to prove the prosecution's case, there is a lot of evidence in front of the jury that speaks toward hunter biden's guilt for what he's charged with. now, as far as the defense, they don't have great facts to work with, and so what they did during their closing arguments is they attack the timeline, they basically try to say that the period is in question, may or may not necessarily line up with the notion of hunter biden's substance abuse issues. and i think that is as far as the defense could go, absent any additional testimony from hunter biden which would not have been a good idea, so the prosecution has laid out a case that is largely built on circumstantial evidence, but one that nonetheless i think is pretty strong and convincing, given the low bar around the elements that have to be satisfied for a conviction. >> misty, hunter biden's attorney ended his closing argument by reading a passage from hunter's book where he writes, remembering all those things, feels like a terrible betrayal of where i am now. they bring feelings of shame and guilt. what do you think the defense attorneys wanted jurors to take into deliberations? >> to charles' point, the elements of this case, the prosecution had a lot of facts to prove, but there is one thing that they overlooked a bit, and that's that sympathy factor. for people that have been impacted, family, friends, by addiction, which at this point is almost everyone in america and specifically some of the individuals on this jury, and when that passage was read, the defense had a very specific purpose, number one, it is part of their case, part of their case is at the time, hunter biden was in recovery, he was trying to get better. and so the passages that you heard from this memoir, that's him looking back at this dark point of his life. these passages of the prosecutors brought in, in order to prove his drug addiction. so the defense is strategically taking that passage and saying, this is not hunter biden today. this is hunter biden looking back on his experience. so, there are times he struggled, tried to get better and unfortunately fell into the grips of doing drugs again, which is something that happens, relapses. it was speaking to that sympathy level to the jury. >> so many people can relate to the impact of drug addiction on families. charles, hunter biden had this gun for just 11 days, there is no evidence it was ever discharged, he's not accused of using it to commit a crime. remind us how unusual is the case like this, and does any of what i just laid out there factor into deliberations? >> you know, i don't necessarily think it factors into deliberations in as much as i don't necessarily know that the jury is aware of how unusual it is for the feds it bring a case of this nature. but for our audience, it is important to understand we have been having a lot of conversation about the trial in new york surrounding the former president and the notion of whether it was a politicized trial. what i can tell you is that this is a rare case to be brought by feds absent any sort of evidence or accusations of a violent act which we do not have here. and what i mean by that is usually it is the fact that someone who had the gun in question committed some sort of violent act and that led to the actual indictment. and these are lower charges that might accompany that. we don't have that here. someone can make an argument that this is actually far more of a politicized prosecution than the one that we have been talking about that just concluded in new york. i think that the jury is not necessarily going to think about that. but it is important to note that it is a relatively unusual case for the feds to bring absent anything else that we have not seen here in this case. >> misty, nobody can be sure, but what is your sense of how quickly we might get a verdict? >> i think we could see a verdict today. the prosecutor really had a lot of evidence to show that there was drug use around that time. whether or not it was on the day of october 2018, during that month, but the circumstantial evidence surrounding that and the timeline that the prosecution set forth pretty broad. >> didn't have to prove that he used drugs. >> correct. >> on that day, right? >> right. that's a point prosecutors made because the defense, their goal was to narrow that timeline to say we have to look at this specific timeline in october, and keep in mind, there is two different aspects to the charges, one is the falsification, the lying on the form. the other is the actual possession of the gun. so, there is two different aspects there that the jury is going through right now in that jury room. but, look, i think if we don't see a verdict today, that's a good sign for the defense. that means there is some challenges in that jury room to get on the same page, which is usually an indicator there might be some, there may not be a consensus or agreement, you could have a shot at a hung jury. >> that would lead to a mistrial, it is not just a verdict of guilty or innocent or i guess acquittal here. president biden said he would not pardon hunter, so what does he face if is he convicted? >> ana, the technical maximum sentence for these three charges, if stacked, one on top of the other, is 25 years. that never happens. so the practical maximum is ten years. that's not going to be the sentence in this case. by one estimate, federal sentencing guidelines would call for about a year in prison in this case. but it doesn't even have to be that. those are voluntary guidelines. the judge could go well below that, given the context that charles provided that this case is rarely brought as a stand alone case. also worth noting, though, that one of the reasons we're here is that a plea bargain in this case fell apart. they called for no conviction on this charge. they called for deferred adjudication. >> misty what do you think if found guilty what is the more likely sentence here? >> i don't think you're going to see jail time. to charles' point, when this case is generally charged, the judge is going look to at other cases, what the sentences have been and compare it to this case. it is usually what is called felon in possession, meaning somebody who is already been convicted of a felony has possession of a gun or the gun was used in some other crime. and then these charges are tacked on. so given that, this is such a rare case to be brought on its own, i don't see jail time in hunter biden's future, even if convicted. >> your thoughts, charles? >> i agree with misty and ken. i don't think this is something that is going to see jail time. if it is, it is not significant in terms of the jail time. the judge is going to look at other cases of this nature and you will not normally see anything close to the maximum imposed for something like this. so, ultimately, i don't expect hunter biden to be behind bars and if he is, for any period of time, i don't expect it to be lengthy. >> all right, thank you, all, ken dilanian, charles coleman and misty maris, stay close, we'll bring you all back if we get developments. meantime, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. overnight, donald trump's legal team filed another motion to dismiss the classified documents case against him. and just a few hours after judge cannon had denied an earlier attempt. joining us now nbc's dasha burns. dasha, bring us the latest on these different motions to dismiss. >> try, try again and again and again and again. this is a case where the defense team for donald trump has filed just endless motions to dismiss seemingly. and it is part of the reason this has been delayed when we thought we were going to potentially see a trial, scheduled initially for may. so, in this case, the motion to dismiss was just denied. the motion basically said that the trump defense team said that the prosecution didn't articulate a crime, that the indictment was technically insufficient and politically motivated. now, judge cannon denied this motion to dismiss, but did grant trump and his team a small victory. she agreed to strike a paragraph from the indictment that showed that the former president allegedly showed a classified map of a foreign country to somebody in 2021, when he was no longer president. so, that's all been denied, that paragraph has been struck, which is a good thing for trump. what the trump team has now filed is another motion to dismiss, basically alleging that the fbi mishandled the documents that they found at mar-a-lago, claiming that they didn't preserve the original order in which the documents and papers were placed, and therefore destroyed potentially exculpatory evidence. this is one of a slew of motions to dismiss that are still on the docket. >> and dasha, i understand trump also completed that presentencing probation interview following his conviction in the new york hush money case. what more can you tell us about that? >> we don't know a ton of details about what was asked. what we do know is that it wrapped up pretty quickly. it was less than half an hour and now it is done. we'll let you know as soon as we hear any more details. >> just a half hour long. thank you so much, dasha burns. sentencing set for july 11th in that case. up next, secret recordings of justice samuel alito. what he allegedly said with major supreme court decisions still hanging in the balance. plus, the capitol hill contempt fight over attorney general merrick garland gaining steam today as the ag comes out swinging in a new op-ed over attacks on the doj. what he is saying in this rare public statement. and, from silicon valley star to behind bars. could elizabeth holmes see her sentence slashed? we're back in just 90 seconds. d we're back in just 90 seconds. i. 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>> those recordings are getting a lot of attention this morning, capturing the outlook of justice alito, who is devoutly catholic with his wife and the chief justice. we should note that nbc news has not heard the full record,s, only what is reported online. this is the latest spot line on the court as it barrels toward the end of a controversial term. more controversy surrounding supreme court justice samuel alito and his wife after they were secretly recorded at a gala dinner last night. alito approached by lauren windsor, posing as an ally. alito, asked by windsor, about a nation divided between left and right, saying -- >> one side or the other is going to win. there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully but it's difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can't be compromised. >> reporter: after windsor said the country needs to return to a place of godliness, alito responding, i agree. the conversation recorded during the supreme court historical society's annual dinner june 3rd, alito, on the conservative wing of the court, has been embroiled in controversies. alito responded his wife, martha ann, raised the flags, she was also recorded by windsor who told her she was being persecuted. mrs. alito responding -- >> i'm german, from germany, my heritage is german. you come after me, i'm going to give it back to you. >> reporter: and discussing other flags she wanted to fly at their house. >> you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. >> reporter: windsor approached chief justice john roberts who responded more cautiously to her questioning, asked about whether the court should lead the country on a more moral path -- >> no, i think the role for the court is deciding the basis. >> reporter: the chief justice pushing back that the u.s. is a christian nation and the court's role is to guide it on that path. >> i don't know that we live in a christian nation. i know a lot of jewish and muslim friends who would say maybe not. and it's not our job to do that. >> reporter: the court has not responded to a request for comment. but the historical society which hosted the event said in a statement they condemn the surreptitious recording of justices there, which they say is inconsistent with the spirit of the evening. back to you. >> hallie jackson, thank you. we are awaiting a number of major decisions still from this supreme court session including on presidential immunity. and some of the biggest abortion cases since roe v. wade was overturned. and we expect some decisions on thursday and friday of this week. this morning, attorney general merrick garland is defending the justice department from increasing attacks. in a new "washington post" op-ed, garland writes disagreements about politics are good for our democracy. they are normal. but using conspiracy theories, falsehoods, violence and threats of violence to affect political outcomes is not normal, adding this must stop. that rare public defense published just hours before the house rules committee is expected to move forward on resolutions to hold garland in contempt of congress for refusing to turn over audio recordings of president biden's interview with special counsel robert hur. let's go to the hill and julie tsirkin. the house rules committee taking up this contempt resolution this afternoon. so what then? what do we think is going to happen? will it pass? >> reporter: in less than two hours from now, they are going to meet to take up that contempt resolution that was passed by two house committees, republican-led committees last month. your question will it pass, we do expect it to sail through the rules committee because of the conservatives that are on that panel. that's essentially the first step that the house has to take before putting this contempt resolution on the floor for a full vote. we expect that to happen actually as soon as tomorrow afternoon. that's according to some republican sources in the house. i do have to tell you that certainly johnson doesn't have a lot of wiggle room here. he's working with about a two-seat majority. for this to pass in the full house to hold garland in contempt of congress for failing to turn over the tapes of biden's special counsel interview that have to do with the classified documents case, of course there needs to be a simple majority, johnson, can only lose two. there are some moderate members from swing districts where we don't know where they're going to land. if they're putting this on the floor, they do think they have the votes. >> what is garland saying about this contempt effort? >> reporter: in addition to that rare opinion piece that you mentioned at the top that you quoted from, this is a really rare move for someone of his caliber of garland's caliber to put something like this out there to call for these attacks he calls on the justice department to end. he also, of course, made his concerns with releasing and turning over these tapes very clear to the panels that he testified before, i want you to take a listen to what he had to say. >> certain members of this committee and the oversight committee are seeking contempt as a means of obtaining for no legitimate purpose sensitive law enforcement information that could harm the integrity of future investigations. i will not be intimidated. and the justice department will not be intimidated. >> reporter: garland did say he and the justice department take contempt very seriously. however, they do say that the flip side of that, releasing and turning over these tapes, which outside organizations including nbc news have also requested would put justice department personnel in jeopardy and would turn away any witnesses in the future from cooperating with the panel if they knew that these tapes are going to be turned over. >> julie tsirkin, keep us posted. thanks so much. up next, new video of that dramatic hostage rescue by israel as we get new details about how it almost fell apart. we're in the region where hamas faces new pressure to accept a cease-fire. plus, a primary day test of power as trump's endorsements and former speaker kevin mccarthy's revenge tour collide. . slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. avoid grapefruit during treatment. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, a severe or worsening rash, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. long live life and long live you. ask your doctor about kisqali today. -remember when i said we need to screen for colon cancer? 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>> reporter: so, ana, no formal response yet from hamas to the cease-fire proposal. they have been saying in media interviews that while they support the broad outlines laid out by president biden, formalized in that u.n. security council resolution, they want a firm commitment from israel that it is prepared to end the war and withdraw from gaza as part of the agreement. that is not something israel is prepared to say publicly. the united states says israel is on board and at this point it is only hamas standing in the way. and we're learning more details about that israeli raid that led to the rescue of those four hostages in gaza. this morning, we're seeing the moment israeli commandos burst through the door of an apartment in central gaza. in a back room, they find three terrified male hostages, calling out their names. and then rushing them under fire through a grove to make an escape. the fourth hostage, noa argamani, rescued from a different building. the idf says they were held in family homes under armed guard. hospital officials tell us they're in good health, but have a long recovery ahead. >> first, they suffer from malnutrition. they were given very, very little amount of food. >> reporter: while in new york, pro palestinian demonstrators gather outside an exhibit commemorating those killed at the nova music festival, the u.s. says the best way to end the suffering in gaza and bring all the hostages home is through the cease-fire plan laid out by president biden. last night, the u.n. security council voting to support that plan. which the u.s. says israel has accepted but hamas has not. >> everyone's vote is in except for one vote. and that's hamas. >> reporter: if negotiations fail, u.s. officials tell nbc news the administration has discussed making a unilateral deal with hamas, to free the american hostages. the parents of hersh goldberg say they welcome that effort. >> 120 people to still be in captivity is absolutely unacceptable. >> reporter: but with no deal yet, gaza is still in mourning. this woman's two sons among 60 children the hamas-run health ministry says was killed by israeli fire during the hostage raid. out of 270 people killed in total. israel says hamas deliberately holds hostages in civilian areas. the witnesses say the idf unleashed a massive aerial bombardment. prayers for a cease-fire now more urgent than ever. secretary blinken met with the families of hostages here in israel earlier. he's in jordan now. and then he's on his way to qatar to meet with the mediators there. ana, some good news today, that former hostage noa argamani released from hospital three days after her rescue. >> that's great news. that video is incredible. raf sanchez, thank you for bringing us all of that. meantime, staying overseas, this morning, four americans are recovering after they were injured in a stabbing attack in northeast china. a disturbing video of the moments just after the attack shows those americans on the ground where several appear to be bleeding. four are instructors from cornell college in iowa who were in china for a teaching trip. chinese authorities say a suspect has been arrested and the victims are receiving treatment. the state department says it is monitoring this situation. next on "ana cabrera reports," we're going to check in at that delaware courthouse where the jury is deliberating hunter biden's fate. plus, the ghost of kevin mccarthy haunting the campaign trail. the republican congresswoman he's targeting as part of a revenge tour. e tour what is cirkul? 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any questions, any notes coming from the jury room? >> reporter: nothing yet, ana, i was in the courthouse earlier this morning when the judge brought the jury into the room, asked them a series of questions about whether they had been informed of any outside opinions about this case, whether they had seen any news coverage of this. a series of standard questions to make sure the only conversations that the jury are having are with one another, and that the only information that they're gathering as they consider this verdict is from the prosecution or the defense. the jury responded yes to all those questions. the judge sent them into the jury room to lead them into their deliberations. we're on stand by to see if there are any questions or a quick verdict. there is a lot to process for the jurors. yesterday, we heard not just the closing argument from the prosecution, the closing argument from the defense attorney, but a rebuttal closing argument from the prosecution yet again. that all in addition to last minute evidence introduced about text messages that the prosecution said linked hunter biden to potential drug purchases on the timeline in question in this case, when he purchased that gun. so the question now is just how quickly will the jury bring back the verdict or will they need an additional series of days, potential hung jury is also possible. >> mike memoli will be on top of anything that comes out of that jury room. thanks again. up next on "ana cabrera reports," a south carolina showdown, how former speaker kevin mccarthy is making gop congresswoman nancy mace's fight to keep her seat even harder. plus, with polls showing the presidential race so close right now, could control of the white house come down to two groups of voters? 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(vo) switch to the partner businesses rely on. new herbal essences is packed with naturally derived plant based ingredients your hair will love and none of the stuff it won't. our sulfate free collections smell incredible and leave your hair touchably soft and smooth. new herbal essences. welcome back. voters are heading to the polls in four states today for primaries in senate, house and gubernatorial races. and one that could be key to determining the balance of power in november is the fight for congresswoman nancy mace's seat in a purple district in south carolina. while mace, a republican locked down an endorsement from former president trump, her opponent in the primary has backing from former house speaker kevin mccarthy, who mace voted to oust last year. nbc's ali vitali is on the campaign trail and joins us live from mace's district in charleston, south carolina. ali, we have seen this referred to as kevin mccarthy's revenge tour. but, how much power does he have in this race, especially against trump? >> reporter: that's going to be one of the big tests here. and, look, mccarthy for his part says though there is bad blood, this is not a revenge tour. he also made clear, though, in the immediate days and weeks after that historic ousting last year that there was certainly no shortage of love lost between mccarthy and the eight republican members who ultimately voted to oust him. mace was one of those. she was outspoken about that. you'll remember. so when i asked her what the central crux of this race was about, she didn't take very long to get to the fact that it is about kevin mccarthy. watch what she told me. it is a revenge tour? >> 100%. he's a mean girl. 100% he's a mean girl. this is all about revenge. it is about powerful people that were taken out. >> reporter: no regrets about -- >> never. never. >> reporter: you can hear the shade, even just in that answer. of course, when i talked to mace's key challenger, and there are two of them in this republican primary, but the one that has mccarthy's backing is catherine templeton, who is also a trump backer, previously served in nikki haley's administration when haley was governor here. when i asked templeton about the role mccarthy played, she said, yeah, i asked him to raise money for me, he used his allies for advice in this race, but at the same time she does not think that south carolina voters are going to the polls with a former speaker in mind. she said i'm sure he's a nice guy, but that's not going to be the decisive factor here. if you look at the ways that mccarthy allies used their millions of dollars on the air wavers here, those ads are not focused on mace's vote to oust the speaker. they're more focused on things like social security, medicare, immigration, that's a huge one. so when voters are looking at the impact of kevin mccarthy's backing, they're not seeing kevin mccarthy's face they're just seeing him highlight various issues that could be detrimental to mace. i will tell you, though, ana, on the flip side of this, there are people in the state who think that mace's vote against mccarthy, it caused a lot of chaos, we covered that in real time, it could help her cement herself as an outsider, conservative voters tend to like that. >> okay. it is on the line tonight. and the test will be in 24 hours from now. thank you so much, ali vitali. at the top of the ticket, former president donald trump is expected to meet with republican senators this week in washington. with sources telling nbc news they'll discuss his campaign plans for the summer as well as his strategy for governing if he wins in november. and joining us now, michael steele, former rnc chairman and co-host of "the weekend" here on msnbc and julian castro, former hud secretary and 2020 democratic presidential candidate and msnbc political analyst. good to have you. michael, as we just mentioned, trump has this upcoming meeting with republican senators. and he's got pretty complicated relationships with some of these republicans in the senate specifically. thinking mitch mcconnell, among others. how do you expect this to go? >> it will go as it always goes with these guys. they'll fall in line because they have to. there is no thread here or backbone that is going to tell donald trump to his face you, sir, need to stand down and allow us to move forward with the different nominee. you are a convicted felon. it is not a good brand for the party of law and order to be led by someone who is a 34-time convicted felon. but they won't do that. so, the conversation will be how do we -- how do we butter you up, a lot of that, mr. trump, you're the greatest, we're so fortunate that you ordained to be in our presence, and worrying about his governing strategy, what governing strategy? he didn't have one four years ago. what makes you think he's going to have one now? he's the chaos candidate. so the party has got to reconcile itself to what the rest of this campaign looks like with a convicted felon leading the charge. how the country responds to that and they'll worry about the governing party on the back end. this is the squad that could not get an infrastructure bill done in four years. and infrastructure bill, which is probably one of the easiest things you can do in congress, because you're doling out cash. >> although, although president biden would argue it wasn't so easy because it did happen, even though there were multiple infrastructure weeks during the trump administration. >> because republicans tried to block it, but republicans, don't forget, had control of the congress, the house, the senate and the white house for two years and couldn't get it done. >> it was a bipartisan bill that did pass eventually. we have new reporting on team biden's game plan ahead of the first debate. a campaign official saying biden's mandate will be to let trump be trump. and that biden is likely to cast trump as obsessed with revenge and retribution and the political violence on the january 6th, 2021 attack on the us capitol. what are your thoughts on this strategy? >> well, i think it is a good strategy. i think biden has at least two things going for him here. first of all, the expectations that he comes into this debate with on june 27th are very low. republicans have painted him as this senile old president who can't even say one paragraph without fumbling. but in the state of the union, he showed he's still got it. and that state of the union speech did him a lot of good in terms of polling and the confidence that americans have in his leadership. he has an opportunity to do that here in this first debate and then secondly, people need to be reminded of how unhinged donald trump really is. he's kind of gotten the chance to skate on this over the last couple of years, yes, he's had his criminal trials, but he hasn't fully been in the spotlight the way that you are when tens of millions of people are watching you go head to head against your opponent. and this is an opportunity for americans to remember all of the insanity of the trump years. all of the reasons why they rejected him in 2020 and that's biden's strategy is, look, having this guy up in front of people reminding them how crazy he is going to be good for joe biden. last time in 2020, people said, we need a break from this, we need to go with the adult in th that biden wants again and probably the dynamic that trump will give him in the debate because he can't help himself and he's shown that over and over. >> we over. >> could decide the election, and the republican party, michael, is planning on inroads with black voters, and they said we're not going to get everybody, and the goal is not to get the majority but the goal is to get to the 25 or 30% of the black male vote. could that make the difference? >> no, it's not a realistic goal. there are so many challenges to go for that. i have been saying that as long as i have been a republican, y'all just can't show up and say, hey, look at us, you know, we're entrepreneurial, and we're entrepreneurial, you go to khur church and we go to church. hey we will protect your right to menthol cigarettes. that's not the way you brand yourself, particularly given the historical relationship between african americans and the gop. i don't see that. donald trump is not the guy to lead that particular charge. i mean, i'm sorry, you know, when you refer to us as the blacks, and you speak of our ancestry as having from s-hole countries and you say there are fine people on both sides, and there's a lot to reconcile there, and just getting a black face out there to shop that for you is not the way to win 25 to 30% of the black vote or the black male vote for that matter. it's good numbers that have to move, and that has to translate into votes, and we're a long way from that happening, i think. hey, we will see. >> of course, trump has a lot of sense of things about people from mexico and election advocacy groups, the latino advocacy group found one-fifth of likely latino voters are learning towards a third party presidential candidate. what does that mean for the biden-harris campaign? >> it means they have work to do. it means they need to get out there and define rfk jr. better, and they need to inform voters about what president biden stands for and remind voters of that. there are two tracks here, ana, and they are spending time trying to remind latino voters how bad trump is, family separation and all the border stuff and his links to joe arpaio, and all of that. then this poll makes clear you cannot sleep on rfk jr., and when you are talking about a state like arizona that biden won by 10,000 or 11,000 votes, you have to make sure people are well-informed. this latino poll, a poll we did about a month and a half ago shows most latino voters still feel they are not adequately informed about the candidates or issued in this election, and that means the biden campaign has work to do. >> thank you both so much. good to see you. up next, she promised to change the world with one drop of blood, and instead holmes got a decade behind bars, and the political appeal today that could potentially change that. n. . even a little blurry vision can distort things. and something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. up to 50% of people with graves' could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. see an expert. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com ♪ you need t-mobile... ♪ ♪ home internet with 5g. ♪ wait! t-mobile has home internet? 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[mind blown explosion noise] a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose comcast business. and now, we're introducing ultimate speed for business —our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds... at no additional cost. it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! today lawyers for the woman once compared to people like steve jobs and bill gates, the disgraced founder argued her sentence should be overturned. what can we expect with this appeals court hearing? >> the oral arguments are set to begin in about an hour or so in san francisco. the mother of two, 40 years old, and as of now it's supposed to stay in prison until august of 2032, and there will be a panel of three judges they will try to convince her sentence was unjust. the lawyers for the disgraced theranos founder are back in court today in the bid to overturn the conviction that rocked silicon valley. a federal jury in california found holmes guilty of defrauding investors, but her lawyers will contend the case parroted negative publicity, and holmes was told in real time the technology worked. the opening brief also alleged she was blocked from cross-examination of the key witness, who is also appealing his conviction today. >> with a ste this long, elizabeth holmes has ever incentive that she can make every argument she can on appeal. >> holmes already shaved off of the 11-year prison sentence, through good behavior and work programs. holmes dropped out of stanford at 19 to launch theranos and now the former darling of silicon valley is fighting to clear her name. >> while this stage of the appeals process is a long shot for holmes, if she doesn't win here, everything after that is even a bigger long shot. this is her best chance. >> she is not supposed to appear in court today, and it's not clear how long it could take the panel of three judges to reach an opinion, and it could be days, weeks or even months. we know previously the prosecution has called her claim meritless. >> thank you. that's going to do it for us this hour. i will be back at noon today in for andrea mitchell. josé diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. stphoepts ♪ ♪ good morning, it's 11:00 a.m. eastern, and 8:00 a.m. pacific. 12 jurors are now deliberating for a second day. hunter biden is charged with lying about his illegal drug uses when purchasing a gun in

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