on its face, a hearing this week that donald trump's former chief of staff mark meadows, product around what might sound like a sideshow legal issue compared to the larger problems facing the former president. he wants to move his case from state, to federal court. but we learned from his nearly four hours of questioning, it has implications far beyond a potential change of a new first trial. in addition to giving us the first sense of where the argument may be for a number of trump's other coconspirators, of which there are many. the testimony was another flashing warning sign of what a second trump term could look like. i mean, let's zero in on the key defense we heard from mark meadows. he argued that the allegations outlined in the indictment, you know, the unrelenting pursuit of baseless claims of election fraud, the pressure campaign and church officials to find votes? the conspiratorial behavior to keep trump in power? he says all of that was, quote, part of my role as -- and he does not think anything he did, including overtly political campaign activities was outside of his scope as chief of staff. now, that may all sound pretty -- -- inside the white house at that time. in fact, meadows himself acknowledged that he helped coordinate defect electricity in for trump's campaign, because trump might yell at him if he did not. that is literally what he said. here's the thing, a job of our white house chief of staff is to have tough conversations, i've worked for six of, them i can promise you that. it is their job to tell the hard truth to the president. sometimes, that means you get yelled that. also, supposed to be a chief of staff who is a hard-core conservative, but also a protector of, you know, the constitution. -- blind allegiance, that is a pretty big warning sign that a second trump term could be far worse. either chris who oppose the authority and white house chief of staff, and he wrote this in new york times. quote, for mr. meadows, his place in history is secure as a primary enabler of a president who tried to overthrow democracy. but his example should serve as a warning of what will happen if mr. trump against the white house all guardrails will be gone. that by the way, is something i've heard from many, many people who have worked in administrations about their concern. so should trump be elected in 2024, there should be little doubt that he will surround himself with perhaps even more damaging versions of yes men and women and we have seen today. people similar to, let's say, trump doj official jeffrey clark who if you don't remember, this tried to blackmail other members of the justice department to do the former president's bidding. that guy would probably be on the shortlist for attorney general. people similar to, or worse than rudy giuliani as that guy, who just this week was found liable of defaming to election workers so realistically, that he put their lives in danger. these are the type of people we all but certain it would install in a second term. he -- who will tell him, exactly what he wants to hear, want our truth. he can basically control. people who will agree to attack and prosecute any of his adversaries, people will, say yes sir, we'll be dammed. so the biggest takeaway that cost of just the legality of the actions taken in his first term, there's a lot that i've been who there as well, but also the damage that could be done if he gets a second stab at the government with -- joining me now is congressman adam schiff. who is an impeachment managers during trump's first impeachment trial, and a member of the house select committee on january 6th. congressman schiff, thanks so much gentlemen on labor day weekend. >> -- >> you follow this also closely given all of your various roles in the congress, were you surprised as you are watching mark meadows testimony anything he had to say on -- >> not surprised so much by what he had to say, as the fact that he said it, although he felt the need to take that gamble, the big gamble, i taking the stand. i think it is a dedication both of the fact that he feels he needs to somehow hail mary to escape potential conviction, but also that if he were successful in moving the case to federal court, he has the potential to knock it out completely by arguing -- but listening to that testimony, reading what he had to say, i think it is a very weak case of overrule, but also for -- nationals over chief of staff to try and subvert an election, try to overturn an election, try to be fraud and violate the laws of a particular state, somehow within the job districts description of a federal chief of staff, and constitution becomes the justice jackson's words, a suicide pact. as he wrote in that famous dissent, the constitution is not a suicide pact, it should be interpreted in such a way as it would negate itself. i think he feels it necessary to take such a profound risk with this testimony. >> given as you just said, the profound risk that he took by testifying for more than four hours that now can all be used by other prosecutors. did you hear anything that maybe is fourth for jack smith and his team a day are working to put together their case in the prosecuting of the federal prosecution france case? >> you know mostly the absurdity of the argument that he did this as part of his role in order to determine what for the performance might be necessary to election laws, or to see that the election law was ferried taken out. i think that will be very successfully marked during the course of the trial. it should be. that is absurd. i think he was by and large pretty careful about what he was saying, using repetitive force and phrases no doubt the council his attorney, but just the absurdity of the argument thing will ultimately be used against him. >> yes, such a good point, it is retelling, everybody reminding everybody, it is not your role as the white house chief of staff to work to overturn an election to state the obvious. one of the things, congressman, that stood out to me, was when meadows was asked directly by state prosecutors if he had any role in fake electors, he said no i did not. the prosecution then submitted into evidence and emails that meadows sent to trump campaign advisor where he wrote, quote, we just need to have someone coordinating the electors for states. you have been in a range of positions in these courtrooms, did he perjury himself there? how problematic is that for him? >> i think it is very problematic and could be more problematic if there is other evidence of prosecutors producing of his role in the fake elector plot. this is what most attorneys would have counseled against him testifying. and only as a last resort, because he has not completely familiar with the discovery, maybe he remembers these emails and maybe he is just flat out lying and exposing himself in that way as well. but, it also maybe that he hasn't familiarized him self with all of the material yet, so this is the, risk this is the peril of trying to get out in front like this, to remove the case. and, i think prosecutors are really showing a faction of what they have, a various, issues so they can prepare trial to use this testimony against them. >> there is an argument circulating about whether the 14th amendment that prohibits anyone, quote, engaged in insurrection or rebellion from holding public office, barr is trump for running from president. now this has not been tested in our system before, do you think, what is your thought on whether that is a valid argument? >> i think it is a valid argument. you know, the 14th amendment, section three is pretty clear. if you engage in acts of insurrection or billion against the government, or a comfort to those who do, you are disqualified from running. it not require that you be convicted of insurrection, it just requires that you have engaged in these acts and disqualification from holding office again. it fits donald trump to it he. i think this will be -- secretary of state refuses to put him on the ballot, or puts him on the ballot and is challenged by -- i would imagine it would go up to the supreme court, and that is the big question mark for all of this, it is what will the supreme court do. there are prominent constitutional scholars, as well as prominent progressive scholars who believe that he should be disqualified. but, will the court take that step ultimately only time will tell, but i do think it is a very legitimate issue by the -- 14th amendment he should be disqualified for holding office. >> congress is not returning for a couple of weeks, but republicans are already ramping up top of an impeachment inquiry into president biden. here's what marjorie taylor greene recently said. >> i will not vote to fund the government, unless we have passed an impeachment inquiry on joe biden. >> now shutting the government down has implications on the public broadly, what is your reaction to her tying a government shutdown to an impeachment inquiry? >> well, it just shows the extreme lengths they will go to carry water for donald trump. they will shut down the government, they will do whatever they can, tunisia it in -- and part of the motivation here is of course to distract who donald trump's multiple indictments part of it, is to somehow try to dilute this stain of trump's impeachments, with the common denominator is this just an swarming of her deniable willingness to be based themselves incidents of donald trump. i think many of them would like to shut down anyway. this would just give them further leverage here to -- having failed to default on the nations credit, when i see this as the next -- commitment to god knows what, and there are enough members in the conference who wanted, and kevin committee will do whatever it takes to arrange street or one more day of -- one more so >> congressman schiff, always a pleasure to, have you thanks so much for joining me today. >> thank you. >> coming up, some republicans in georgia are taking aim at district attorney fani willis, but governor -- is having none of it. a former state senator who testified in front of the grandeur joins me next. plus, election workers -- notch a huge victory against rudy giuliani. their attorney is joining me here on set as well. later, i will ask senator chris murphy about addressing the violence that shows president biden and donald trump tied. we're just getting started today. we will be right back. ht back. ...to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. ♪ (man)s the time to see that looks really high. (woman) it is high. whenever you are ready. (man) are there any snakes? (woman) nope. (man) are you sure? here we go! (vo) it's time to push your limits. (man) okay. (woman) you're doing great! (man) oh, is that a buffalo? (woman) babe, that's a cow. (vo) the all-new subaru crosstrek wilderness. adventure on the edge. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪ ♪ did you know 80% of women are struggling with hair damage? dryness and frizz that keeps coming back, could be damaged hair that can't retain moisture. you need pantene's miracle rescue deep conditioner. it's filled with pro-vitamins to help hair lock in moisture, visibly repairing six months of damage in just one use, with no weigh-down. guaranteed, or your money back. for hair that looks healthy and stays healthy. if you know, you know it's pantene. get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside - and the other goals along the way. wealth plan can help get you there. ♪ j.p. morgan wealth management. at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, ♪ this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us. >> donald trump and his allies pano ai chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...because t-mobile helps pano ai innovate, so they can stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. are digging in and lashing out as the former presidents for criminal cases continue to move through the courts. they have tried discrediting at the indictments, calling them among other things political prosecutions, they appear to defund the prosecutors who are holding them accountable, and now they are cautiously talking about criminal violence and civil war. i told one senator, i said listen, i said we have to put our heads together and figure this out. we need to be taking action right now. if we do not, our constituency is are going to be in the streets. do you want a civil war? i did not want a civil war. i did not want to have to drop my rifle. i want to make this problem go away with my legislative means of doing so. the first step to getting that done is the funding fani willis. >> i do not want to have to drop my rifle, that was georgia state senator who by the, way donald trump has praised for his plan to kneecap funny with this investigation. but, they seem to be drawing a line, instead of interfering, many of them are promising to abide by the basic tenants of the law. a news conference the, street governor brian kemp flatly rejected calls for special session, or any action against willis for her indictment against trump. >> i have not seen any doubt that the date willis's absence or lack there of or -- prosecuting tierney oversight commission special session of the general assembly to and run around this law is not feasible, and may ultimately prove to be unconstitutional. as longtime governor, we are going to follow the law and the constitutional, regardless of who helps, or harms politically. >> in this day and age, it is kind of newsworthy when republicans do not blindly to donald trump's bidding. believe it or not, in 2023, he has always benefited from a tremendous amount of cover from members of his own party, but does not look like that will universally be the case this time in georgia. joining me now is from senate -- who actively testified before the manchurian, in fulton county. so great to see you today. thank you so much for being here with me. so i just wanted to start, first of, all with the rejection of the special, session what do you make of that, what should we all take away from it? >> i think a, he knows that he really should not do that because whenever -- a is definitely something called separation of powers and the constitution, and you can't just do anything you, want to know mahtowa joe or some republicans in georgia think. then, separately, look, what willis is doing is, she is prosecuting a case. if trump is not guilty, we're going to be exonerated, let the process play out. just bringing charges in and of itself is not grounds, you know, for going after her or defunding for office. >> so this past may, the governor did sign up a law that set up the commission to investigate complaints and remove district attorney's. that commission will not be set up until october. it is currently being challenged in the court. you know georgia politics well, do you think there are a bunch of republicans who are trying to get advantage of this? what should we be anticipating here? >> absolutely, anybody can make a complaint. it is not even like you have to be someone who lives in fulton county and has a problem with the district attorney there. they are going to use this as a political vehicle to go after prosecutors that they did not like, what they do not like what they are charging decisions, our and look, one of the biggest things, was there were a lot of democrats that were, you know, people of color who got elected in 2020. so the law originally was kind of a pushback on all of this winning office, now it is just rolled into -- this law specifically to go after we, listen because they did not like that she is prosecuting -- >> you mentioned the separation of, power which i'm so glad, you did it because it is important herman who put this part of our country, and politicizing these cases, trying to prosecute her? >> i think so. what's interesting is, what i always try to tell, people specifically in the political context, is be careful what you wish for. right, what you push. nor goes both ways. so now we have this prosecution oversight committee, that goes after prosecutors who do not like decisions,, well those folks that did not like what republican prosecutors are doing can use the same, thing and -- that prosecutor in south georgia. so, it is going to be used as a vehicle, but really for folks politically, are there going to be repercussions from that? there should be. you never know in georgia. that is the problem. we seem to have a very short political memory in terms of what people are actually doing, and the, policies on whether or not we will vote for them again. >> so a lot to watch there. there are a number of codefendants in the pace that have demanded a speedy trial. some of them are going to have the trial starts in october. what do you make of that strategy? i know you question whether that is a good strategy or not, why would it not be a good strategy? >> one of the biggest things is, you don't know what the prosecutor has. so a lot of times as an attorney, you would do it because you are trying to call the prosecutor's hand. their office is not going to be, ready and junior law, if you demand a speedy trial, you have to give it. if you do not get it by a certain, time then you are effectively acquitted as a matter of law. so it is one of those things where when you make that demand, you are going to go to trial effectively within 2 to 3 months. and, you do not know what the prosecutor has, and here with respect to d.a. willis in her office, they have been working this case up for two years. they are ready to go. she was not going to actually launch until she was already in terms of the indictments. and, inside the strategy, the only people who could possibly be called flat-footed or the defendants and accused. >> she's already done on her homework, now they have to come for the test. >> she is not all the witnesses, there was a special grand jury proceeding where they had, i think it was 76 witnesses. can you imagine the discovery of what they know, and to be quite frank, they had no clue what she, knows who is cooperating with, her and what she is doing in the -- when you make of this argument, and under georgia law, -- >> it just kind of interesting, because as a general matter, it is kind of a low bar. he does have to show the federal official, and usually pretty -- not with the facts of this case. meadows did as much as he could to basically minimize his position in front of the judge. i was always like, where you are at, when you're getting coffee and tea for, folks in just doing the calendar, which we know the chief of staff, that is not really what they do. and, i think you lost a lot of credibility with that. he was out there, he came to georgia, a shorter pushes way in, and his fingerprints where the moments where he effectively lied on the stand and said -- of course, the district attorney's a >> that is a perfect example, all the things they could. thank you for joining me today. coming up, rudy giuliani may have to finally pay for his lies. i will talk to the attorney lawyers for the -- chris murphy, we are back after a quick break. a quick break. mlb chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. looking for a bladder leak pad that keeps you dry? all of the things that you're looking for in a pad, that is always discreet. look at how it absorbs all of the liquid. and locking it right on in! you feel no wetness. - oh my gosh! - totally absorbed! i got to get some always discreet! hi, i'm john and i'm from dallas, texas. my wife's name is joy. we've been married 45 years. i'm taking a two-year business course. i've been studying a lot. i've been producing and directing for over 50 years. it's a very detailed thing and the pressure's all on me. i noticed i really wasn't quite as sharp as i was. my boss told me about prevagen and i started taking it. i feel sharper. my memory's a lot better. it just works. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need— instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it's amazing what real food can do. ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. 180... 180. hello patrick mahomes! who do you even play for? t-mobile! t-mobile has plans that make upgrades work for you. they even have a plan which makes you upgrade ready every year. that's good play calling. cheers! take charge of your upgrades with our best go5g plans at t-mobile. >> there is the saying that democracy is a verb. it means democracy is not just a concept. it involves the actual act of showing up to the polls and casting a ballot. and in every election, ordinary citizens service election workers to ensure the act of democracy goes smoothly. they helped voters register, operate voting machines, and count ballots. the work that these people do should be applauded. but right now, they're under attack. the justice department announced this week that they have charged more than a dozen people for threatening election workers since 2020. and one indictment, an iowa man threatened to, quote, lynch and hang in arizona election official. and in another indictment, a man left about smoke for a michigan election worker, saying, quote, 1 million-plus patriots will surround you when you least expect it. that's pretty alarming. according to data from the center of justice, about one in three election officials have been harassed, abuse, or threaten simply for doing their jobs. one in three. and of course, some of them have been subjected to baseless attacks from the former president of the united states and his allies. but as we continue to learn, lies like these have consequences. this week, a federal judge ruled that rudy giuliani is liable for defamation and intentional infliction of emotional distrust onto election workers in georgia, ruby freeman and shaye moss. they are a mother and daughter who testified for the january 6th committee about what rudy giuliani did to their lives. >> i have lost my name. and i have lost my reputation. i have lost my sense of security. it's all because of group of people starting with number 45 and his ally, rudy giuliani, and decided to scapegoat me. >> rudy giuliani can never undo the pain he caused ruby freeman and shaye moss. but now, he has to pay for it. joining me now, the attorney for shea moss and ruby freeman, mike gottlieb. congratulations on your victory this week. i just want to start, now, we have a trial to determine how much giuliani must pay his clients. so, what can we all expect during that trial. what should we be watching for? >> well, i think that this phase is going to be damages quantification phase, which does not sound too exciting to most ordinary people. but what it means is a chance for our clients to tell their story of the harm that has been caused to their lives and how it upended everything they had and everything they knew about. and it will give us an opportunity to demonstrate what that means financially and what that means, we think, mr. giuliani should be required to have clients for the harm that he has cost. >> you said tens of millions, potentially, if you do your jobs, do you think that will prompt others who have been defamed by rudy giuliani or other trump allies to come out and file lawsuits? >> i mean, one of the purposes of candidate damages awards is to send a deterrence message, to send a message, essentially, one of the purposes of sanctions as well. so we think about why, why has the court entered in order of default judgment liability, it's in part to send a message to people that you are required to cooperate with court orders. you are required to produce documents when you receive lawfully served subpoenas. so there are consequences to these kinds of actions. and we do hope that it will send a message, not just to people who might want to engage and defamation, but it will send a message to election workers, and people who want to be involved in the system, that there are people out here who have your back, who will stand up for you if these kinds of lies and this kind of harassment occurs to you in the future. >> now, one of the people who did not provide documents is rudy giuliani. i mean, even as he is claiming recently, he has scientific evidence to prove election fraud took place. he has been saying that for years, never produced it. he's not produced it in this case, which presumably would have helped him if he actually had. explain to non lawyers what's going on here. >> it's very puzzling, jen. it happens often with conspiracy, people who are proponents of conspiracy theories. there is always a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that will be discovered that demonstrates, you know, all of the details of the conspiracy. but the thing about litigation and the thing about civil litigation is there comes a time to put up or shut up. and that time came. and rudy giuliani had an opportunity not just to turn over, you know, the documents that we wanted from him, but any documents at all that demonstrated any of the claims of fraud that we have in this case. and i think what you see from the opinion of the court issued is he basically turned over nothing. we did not get any affidavits from these, you know, magical witnesses, who prove that fraud was existent. we did not get any scientific evidence showing fraud. we've got nothing. i think it is a puzzling case, puzzling, after all, these promises of fraud there's just no evidence to back any of it. and the reason it's actually pretty simple. if you just watch the video that giuliani claims demonstrates fraud has been explained by republican election officials in georgia does not show anything other than ordinary processing of the counting of ballots, performed by, you know, honorable, decent servants who volunteer for that duty. >> so many people watching are really rooting for ruby and shaye, in this case, to make it through. there's this question if you sued successfully, you are the victim of your own success here. giuliani, why not sue trump too? >> we do get that question quite a bit. i can't really speak, yeah, i can't really speak to that in a televised interview -- >> oh! >> all i can say is, if people continue to defame our clients, if people continue to go out on tv and repeat these lies that we have demonstrated to be false, they can expect to hear from us. >> it sounds like if donald trump is out there defaming ruby and shaye, we should stay tuned. how are ruby and shaye doing? it doesn't change their lives. how did they react to the recent ruling over the past number of weeks. >> i mean, they were thrilled with the ruling. it is a vindication for what they have been saying for a couple of years now. it is vindication for their decision to not take this lying down, to actually stand up and do something about it. but for both of them, it was happening before their eyes. but for the other election workers out there, the other civil servants who have been harassed and venerated, so they're very happy with a step in the process. they recognize we are not done yet and there's more work to be done. but i think that there are, they see this as an important step in the right direction. >> mike gottlieb, thank you so much for joining me today. congratulations to rudy and shaye as well. coming up, gun violence, talking points for republican politicians. i've got a few thoughts about one of their favorite go to argument. later, i will ask senator chris murphy if he believes now is the time congress really could close the so-called gun loophole. as the biden administration is proposing. we are back after a quick break. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. feeling sluggish or weighed down? could be a sign that your digestive system isn't at its best. but a little metamucil everyday can help. metamucil's psyllium fiber gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down and also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so you can feel lighter and more energetic. lighten everyday the metamucil way. feel less sluggish & weighed down after just 14 days. sign up for the 2 week challenge at metamucil.com (ella) fashion moves fast. setting trends is our business. feel less sluggish & weighed down after just 14 days. we need to scale with customer demand... ...in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) so our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) it's not just a network. it's enterprise intelligence. (vo) learn more. it's your vision, it's your verizon. [it's the final game, folks. this one wins the series.] struck out with the cheap seats? important things aren't worth compromising. at farmers, we offer both quality insurance and great savings. (crowd cheers) here, take mine. (farmers mnemonic) from big cities, to small towns, and on main streets across the us, you'll find pnc bank. helping businesses both large and small, communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. we're proud to call these places home too. they're where we put down roots, and where together, we work to help move everyone's financial goals forward. pnc bank. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> if you listen to some public officials answer questions after mass shootings in this country, they will tell you it's because of a mental health crisis, and only a mental health crisis. all of these mass shootings. you've heard it time and time and time again. >> guns, no guns, it doesn't matter. you have people that are mentally ill. >> i don't want to take guns away from law-abiding citizens. i want to focus on people with mental illness. >> anybody who shoots somebody else has a mental health challenge, period. >> we've talked about the need to improve mental health in this country and that's been a driver of a lot of these shootings. >> we have people, though, with mental health that we are not taking care of. >> we have a mental health crisis that often disguises itself as gun violence. >> we also do have a mental health epidemic across this country, chuck, that is really reflective of the hunger for purpose and meaning. >> even if mental health really was the only factor here, and of course it isn't, you would think that these same politicians would be all for funding to more health programs and resources. but that doesn't seem to be the case. for example, medicaid is the largest payer of behavioral health services in the country. they support lots of mental health funding. and time and time again, republicans in congress have continued to slash medicate. and take a look at the ten mostly red states that haven't adopted the affordable care act medicaid expansion, which basically means they are declining extra money from the federal government that would help cover mental health care for lower income families. so, lots of the same people who are saying gun violence is a mental health issue are refusing to provide more coverage for mental health services. meanwhile, those who solely blame mental health for mass shootings are also stigmatizing the very people who struggle with it, struggle with mental health. the fact is, only 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness, according to a study from columbia university's department of psychiatry. and although 25% of mass shootings are associated with depression, another non psychotic mental illnesses, in most cases, those conditions are incidental. we've also seen some elected officials point to mental health to deflect from the dangers ideologies that clearly motivated many mass shootings. like, say the shooting at the dollar general store in jacksonville last weekend, where the gunmen did have a history of mental health issues, but when a white man targets black people and killed three of them, racism is clearly at play. and all you heard from these officials was mental health. there wasn't talk of racism. now, meanwhile, when we consider this, mental health is an issue everywhere. a brand-new study led by harvard medical school and university of queensland found that half of the world's population will experience a mental health disorder at some point in their lifetime. and yet, the u.s. gun homicide rate is 26 times that of other high income countries. our mental health problem is not unique. our gun violence problem is unique. so, what is the outlier? for most of you, you will be shocked to hear it. it's the guns. the united states has more guns than people. u.s. civilians have an average of 120 and a half fire arms per 100 people, more than one per person, which is the biggest in the world by a long shot. so, the republican argument that in mental health crisis is the only reason we have a horrific gun violence problem in this country just is not accurate. it's also a big cover-up. mental health is a big issue here and everywhere. and there is no question we need to be better as a country in funding care for those who are struggling, with loneliness, anger, and isolation. many republicans are outrage over the mental health crisis, they have the power to vote for that funding. but there's a long list of complex societal issues that could lead someone to become angry or radicalized enough to want to commit a mass shooting in any country. the only reason someone here in the united states could act on it so easily is that they can go out and buy a gun in a matter of days, if not minutes. and that is inherently an american problem. senator chris murphy, a longtime advocate for common sense gun reform, joins me next. ins me next. ...because t-mobile helps pano ai innovate, so they can stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. (dad) we got our subaru forester wilderness now's the time to see to discover all of the places that make us feel something more. (vo) subaru is the national park foundation's largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid-free remission... ...and the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check, check, and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least 1 heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc in check and keep it there with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save. ♪ shelves. shelves that know what taste buds want. shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. ♪ so caramel swirl is always there for the taking. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ looking for a smarter way to mop? introducing the new swiffer powermop. an all-in-one cleaning tool that gives you a mop and bucket clean in half the time. our new cleaning pad has hundreds of scrubbing strips- that absorb and lock dirt away, ( ♪♪ ) and it has a 360-degree swivel head- that goes places a regular mop just can't. so, you can clean your home faster than ever. don't mop harder, mop smarter, with the new swiffer powermop. mlb chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. >> despite what the cynics and skeptics would have you believe, there are solutions to the epidemic of gun violence in america. just this week, the biden administration moved forward with a plan to regulate gun sales in the united states. the new proposal which is a direct result of the bipartisan gun reform law passed by congress last year would eliminate the gun shield loophole. right, now a massive amount of gun sales is happening without background checks. this new proposal would require all firearms dealers to get a federal license and to conduct criminal background checks, regardless of where the guns are sold. joining me now is one of the country's most vocal proponent of gun state reform, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. senator murphy, great to see you on labor day weekend. thank you for joining me today. >> yeah, thanks for having me, jen. >> so, we've been hearing versions of closing the gun loophole for sometime now. a lot of us, you've been talking about it for years. do you think there is a greater appetite to do this now, and what are you hearing from republican colleagues that is encouraging? >> well, you know, of course, this is such an exceptional issue with american politics today. the public has made up their mind. they want universal background checks. polls are at 85, 95, 98% approval in this country. you don't get that approval rating for grandma, apple pie, or baseball. it's like the most popular thing in the united states, make sure the criminals, people with serious mental illness don't have guns. it's just been so frustrating and maddening to voters at the top of the list as to why congress has not been able to get it done. as you mentioned, in the bipartisan safer communities act, which would make a pretty important change, we made it clear that anybody that is in the business of selling guns, even if it's an apartment business, has to be licensed and has to perform background checks. so the biden administration and announced just this week that they are going to be implementing that section of the bill. and it is likely going to result in literally tens of thousands of guns. right now, we are still without a background checks. having background checks applied, that means there's gonna be a lot fewer criminals, a lot fewer people, and we're gonna be able to find loopholes around the macaronesia clock to get their hands on firearms. and that is predominantly people who are selling, maybe 20, 30, 40 guns here, at a gun show or online who are doing background checks, and now they have to perform it. and by the way, five minute background checks, background checks that don't stop any law-abiding citizen from getting their hands on any weapon. >> the challenges, to state the obvious, as of late is what the fbi director has been saying for years, that racially motivated violent extremism is the largest threat to our country. i know you've talked about this. unfortunately, we have seen white supremacy as a primary motivator at a number of mass shootings in the last two years, including recently in jacksonville. but the violent rhetoric from not just trump, but some of the other leading candidates continues to escalate. in addition to what you are trying to do in congress, what can we actually do about this as a country? >> well, i think there's two important things to say here. first is, there is a direct through line between the glorification and endorsement of violence that is happening in right-wing political circles and the usage of violence against black, brown, gay and lesbian, transgender americans, the folks who are out there, who are part of trump's movement, they are sending a signal of endorsement to people who think that they can deal with the demons by taking out violence on people that they hate. but the second piece of this is really related to your opening. you talked about this scapegoating of the mentally ill. it is really important to point out that you don't have to be mentally ill to be racist. there are plenty -- >> it's not the same thing. >> there are many people who are not mentally ill, but who are hateful and prejudice prejudiced towards minorities in this country. it's just not true to look at many of these hate crimes and just right away is a consequence of mental health illness. there's a difference between the two. and the folks that are distributing this racist material, we have to be held accountable for that. >> back in congress, i know the senate is not a back quite yet. but of course, there's a lot of thought about what's gonna happen when you do return. majority leader schumer said in his dear colleague letter that the focus would be on funding the government and preventing house republican extremists from forcing a government shutdown. for the people just tune into that possibility, there are threats of an impeachment according to president biden. do you think that will be the holdup to get government funding through the house? or what are the issues that would be really debated here? >> well, it would be an absolute tragedy, as this economy's recovery, as we are seeing record job growth, as we are seeing wages rise for the government to shut down because of right-wing republican demands. that's the last thing our economy needs right now. the truth of the matter is that we can keep the government up and operating. we could get a bunch -- but it's going to be without those 100, or 150 most radical republicans in the house of representatives. there is a coalition of democrats and a handful of reasonable republicans in the house along with the senate that can pass a budget. and that really is just a question as to whether kevin mccarthy is willing to stand up to those right wingers who are clamoring for impeachment, or is he going to let them run the business, not just in the house of representatives, but when the business of the united states of america. that's a question he will have to answer in the next 30 days. >> take the answer to the presidential race, there's a polling that shows biden and trump tied and had tied weight. it is very, very early. and trump actually takes the lead when you include third party candidates. we go through the ebbs and flows of talking about a threat of third party candidates. i just want to ask you, you are a savvy political guy, how concerned do you think people should be about a third party, spoiler, is it something you are concerned about? >> we certainly look back to prior presidential elections like 2000, and you know, cover the inclusions of these 30, third party candidates. i think we are in a bit of a different time right now. i think the stakes are higher. i think it is less likely that voters are going to throw away their vote on a third party candidate when we actually get to election day, sometimes people are more willing to suggest to vote for a third party candidate in early polls, less willing when it actually comes down to decision time. but i think joe biden is gonna do incredibly well. i think he's gonna probably run against trump. i think he's going to beat trump by a bigger margin than in the last election. and i think that's what, it's because he has a pretty incredible record to run on. and there's going to be issues like abortion that are going to drive even more voters, especially young voters, out to the polls in 2024, that came out in 2020. and i think that our success in passing things like the bipartisan safer communities act is proof to those young voters that when they turn out and vote for democrats, we actually can get things done. things that matter to them, issues like guns, choice, and climate. so i'm not worried about the 24 election. at least we will see a lot of these close polls. but when the choices made by voters, i think joe biden's gonna be really well. >> there are people working to a tour of the world with, you are one of them. i want to ask you quickly before i let you go, you are on the foreign relations committee. there is reporting that some weapons being sent to the frontlines in ukraine are ending up in russian hands. how do you feel about the accounting you have been giving about the status of that? do you want more information? do you feel satisfied with what you have? >> i feel very good about the accounting. let's be honest, the front lines are dangerous, chaotic places in every single conflict. there have been weapons that in the changing hands, in part because territory changes hands. but what i have seen thus far, the information that i have been given tells me that ukrainians have been incredibly thoughtful and responsible in the usage of the weapons that we have given to them. i think what you are going to see is a lot of opponents of the ukraine war, or who are supporting ukraine in this war, propagandists around vladimir putin or trying to come up with a lot of excuse excuse as to why we should not give weapons to the ukrainians. one of those reasons is not their end usage, the iranians have been incredibly responsible and we should continue to support them. >> senator chris murphy, thank you for the tour of the world politics, gun violence, ukraine. i can't do that with anybody. i appreciate your time today. we are coming right back after a quick break. stay with us. clinical antiperspirant. it provides 3x stress sweat protection. danielle? [♪♪] secret works. [♪♪] (wheezing) asthma isn't pretty. it's the moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. because one dose a day helps keep my asthma symptoms under control. and with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy helps improve lung function so i can breathe easier for a full 24 hours. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. trelegy contains a medicine that increases risk of hospitalizations and death from asthma problems when used alone. when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid, like in trelegy, there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase risk of thrush and infections. get emergency care for serious allergic reactions. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ♪ what a wonderful world. ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - because breathing should be beautiful. j.p. morgan wealth management knows it's easy to get lost in investment research. get help with j.p morgan personal advisors. hey, david! ready to get started? work with advisors who create a plan with you, and help you find the right investments. so great getting to know you, let's take a look at your new investment plan. ok, great! this should have you moving in the right direction. thanks jen. get ongoing advice; and manage your investments in the chase mobile app. sleep more deeply and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid draws away heat relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. right now save up to $900 off mattress sets during purple's labor day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you. here's why you should switch fro off mattress sets during to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> that does it for me today. thanks for joining us on this holiday weekend. we will be back here next sunday, noon eastern. stay right where you are because there's more news coming up on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> at this hour, in new remarks, gop presidential hopeful vivek ramaswamy doubling down on comments made about it democrats in congress, drawing outrage today. i will talk with congresswoman jasmine crockett about that. and the move by a fellow democrat to look into jared kushner's billion dollar deal with saudi arabia. it's all ahead. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> a very good day to all of you from msnbc world ad