we'll have more on his medical situation. also ahead, we'll look at the biden administration's plan to close a major loophole for gun sales. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, september 1st. i'm willie geist. with us this morning, the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. former communications director to president obama, jennifer palmieri. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post", eugene robinson. "politico's" sam stein. and former district attorney for the direct of colombia, glenn kirschner. he is a legal analyst. let's dive right in. president trump has officially pled not guilty in the fulton county election interference case. the team entered the plea for the 13 felony charges he faces, including racketeering and conspiracy. it was entered in writing, as they told the court he wouldn't appear for next week's scheduled arraignment. the legal team also pushing to separate his case from the other co-defendants. it argues october 23rd is not enough time to file a defense. that date was set for the speedy trial of co-defendant, cheseboro. it was asked that date be set for the remainder of the co-defendants, as well. when the date is set, there will be cameras in the courtroom, the decision confirmed by the judge. hearings and proceedings related to the case will be televised and livestreamed on the court's youtube channel. glenn, let's talk about, first of waiving the arraignment, pleading not guilty, no surprise there. what about severing his case from the others, what do you read into that? >> it's not a surprise, willie. in virtually every co-defendant case, we get motions to sever, which are essentially defendant saying, "look, judge, i want you to break me out from the pack. i want a separate trial." they want to separate themselves from the people they believe might be more culpable. they don't want evidence spilling over on them in a joint trial. with respect to donald trump's decision to forego a personal appearance at his arraignment, i have a feeling, you know, all along, donald trump has been, you know, waging this battle, really in a court of public opinion, not in a court of law. so he may have made the decision that, you know, his grifting opportunities will not be particularly high if he makes another personal appearance in georgia for his arraignment. so he and his lawyers have decided to waive, you know, the personal appearance at the arraignment, enter a plea of not guilty, and he'll wait to see what the court does, not only with respect to the next in-person status hearing, but with respect to his motion to sever. it'll be interesting. i will say, willie, most motions to sever are denied. the court will cite things like judicial economy and efficiency. imagine if you had to have 19 separate trials. witnesses would have to testify 19 times. it could go on for years. there is this sort of preference for a joint trial when defendants are properly joined together in a single indictment. we'll have to see what judge mcafee does in georgia. >> with that in mind, do you believe even kenneth cheseboro gets his trial, very soon, by the way, we're in september, so next month, he is looking for an october 23rd trial, which d.a. willis said, "sure, we're ready. let's do that." do you think he goes on october 23rd? as you look at, you know, the idea that is getting split up 19 different ways, which as you say is unlikely to happen, when might donald trump finally have his trial? >> great question. two different issues with respect to somebody demanding a speedy trial, and under georgia law, that means cheseboro has to be tried by the end of october, that is separate and apart from a motion to sever. i do think cheseboro will get his speedy trial. sidney powell, who has also made a speedy trial demand, may get batched together with cheseboro. it's an open question as to how much time judgecafee will give the other defendants. cheseboro and powell set an atmospheric precedent, not a legal precedent, and their arguments are now kind of antagonistic to all the other defendants who will argue, "geez, i can't possibly be ready to go to trial in october." the judge, i think, can rightly observe, well, other defendants are ready, willing and able to go in october, so why can't you? >> one of those 19 co-defendants, one of donald trump's 18 co-defendants in this georgia case may have, well, confessed a little bit to the crimes he is accused of while giving an interview to fox news. former trump lawyer, john eastman, he of the infamous eastman memo, appeared to admit to attempting to stop the certification of the 2020 election. this was during an exchange with fox host laura ingraham. >> on january 6th, what did you want to happen, and how was that historically grounded? in the history of our country, how would that have taken place? so viewers understand, how would that have been unfolded, and how would it have been constitutional? >> so, you know, several things. some people urged that vice president pence simply had power to reject electors whose certification was still pending in -- >> i don't believe that, but go ahead. >> i don't either. >> one thing i don't agree with. >> i told vice president pence in the oval office on january 4th, though it was an open issue, under the circumstances we had, i thought it was the weaker argument and it would be foolish to exercise such power, even if he had it. what i recommended, and i've said this repeatedly, is that he cede a request from more than 100 state legislators in the swing states, to give them a week to try to sort out the impact of what everybody acknowledged was illegality in the conduct of the election. >> not everyone acknowledged it, but that was the argument that was being made, obviously. >> well -- >> there were irregularities that everybody had seen. whether it was -- you know, whether it rose to the level of changing the outcome of the election, again, without a legal proceeding in the states that mattered, the argument ultimately was a difficult one to make. i mean, hence, here we are. >> gene robinson, there you have one of the central players in all this, a guy that jonathan lemire wrote about a lot in his book, "the big lie," who drafted the memo with this theory, this crack legal theory that, yes, mike pence could flip the election to donald trump. effectively saying, "yes, that's exactly what i tried to do around the election. and, by the way, everyone knew there was something fishy about this election. but, no, no, no, there were 65 court cases, only two went his way." also, people saying, obviously, there was something going on. they're throwing around these words. it's just not true. it's just not true, and he may have implicated himself in the interview. >> you're right, it is just not true. not everyone acknowledged problems with the election. in fact, as you just mentioned, that proposition was tested in court 65 times, and it failed, well, two minor examples of where maybe irregularities were found. but, in fact, nothing that would have changed the outcome of the election in any state. period. it simply did not happen. so that's a lie and just acknowledged, really, he tried to do something that was unconstitutional or extra constitutional. there's no sort of, well, give it a week, sort of provision in the constitution or in our law that would allow that sort of thing. so, yeah, it sounds to me like an admission of the facts with which he's being charged criminally. it's a problem. i don't know why these lawyers go on fox news and talk. they're criminally charged. defendants who go out in public and talk about their cases generally don't do themselves in good and often do themselves harm. i think that's what eastman is doing. >> a little light confession there from john eastman who, of course, also during the process in 2020, in emails, would suggest, "we might be breaking the law here." more of the same from him. to gene's point, it is right, lawyers usually tell their clients not to go on tv. someone needs to tell the lawyers to do the same. jen palmieri, something else about the moment was interesting to me. i noted it on "way too early." laura ingraham, who was having careful in how she talked about that, with the backdrop of the dominion lawsuit looming. a lot of money there. there is another smartmatic lawsuit pending. isn't it an interesting political moment, though, where fox, in certain moments, is not willing to fully support trump and his team and their claims in election interference? could it hurt trump's political standing as we barrel into the primaries? >> that was my takeaway, like, wow, she is going out of her way to interject, to correct the record, say what we know, what we don't know, what was possible, what was impossible. in, like, sort of a casualty of the trump years, it's the casualness with which the lawyer in this case goes on air, says things, basically admits to a conspiracy, that they were trying to find some way to get this done, but laura ingraham knows what it is like to be held accountable under the law, right? john eastman doesn't know that yet. it has been -- i mean, i've been seeing fox the last couple weeks just be very, you know -- it's a little schizophrenic, as to whether or not it can really be propping up trump without undermining its own, you know -- it's whether or not it can survive yet another court challenge. meanwhile, bill barr, the former attorney general under donald trump, again pouring cold water on all the arguments you're hearing, especially the one from trump himself. trump repeatedly said his upcoming criminal trials amount to, vote, election interference. yesterday, also on fox news, barr called those claims silly. >> all right. i mean, the basic principle in the criminal justice system is if a prominent person commits a crime and is seeking office, that doesn't give him immunity. if there is enough time to have it resolved before the election, it should be resolved. the idea that, oh, okay, well, i'm sorry, we'll let you get running the election, then, after, we'll address it, that's not a principle. i mean, just think, some mayor charged, you know, with massive embezzlement and says, "well, it's a year and a half to the election, let's put that on hold while i run for re-election," it's silly. it's silly. you can argue about whether or not he should have been charged and so forth, but the idea this is interfering with the election is simply wrong. >> sam stein, this is an argument we've heard from judges in these cases, too, which is particularly i'm thinking of judge chutkan in the d.c. federal case around the election, saying, "yes, march 4th is the date we begin your trial. i guess that's on the eve of super tuesday. it's not my job to schedule to your presidential campaign. if you didn't want to have all these legal problems during a campaign year, you probably should not have committed a large number of alleged crimes." >> yeah, that is the cause here. you know, what makes barr effective here is he could care less what people think about him, and it comes across in the way he talks, right? it's like, so what if people on fox get mad at me for telling the truth? i don't care. i'm not running for office or anything. yeah, i think he has a valid point, not just legally, but you can look at it the other way, right? it's a service to the voters, actually, to get this legal stuff out of the way, right? if you're a voter, if you're going to vote in the primary, in an ideal circumstance, you would know if the person you're casting a vote for is going to be arrested, if he'll be able to be on the ballot. these are major questions that need to be resolved before people cast ballots. the idea that trump can just push it off until after the election is pretty transparency an attempt by his team to try to run out the clock, get past the election, win office and try to just get rid of all the legal problems that have been surrounding him over the past couple months. if i could, i want to go back to one point about eastman, which i think is a valid point here. you know, why is he going on fox news? why is he creating more problems for himself? i think this is sort of the underlying issue here that's happened, which is, obscure lawyers like john eastman, yes, they found an immense amount of legal problems from their actions leading up to the 2020 election and the certification. they've also found celebrity. john eastman is now a celebrity on the right. he goes to conferences. he's hailed as a hero in certain quarters of the conservative movement. so there is an impulse that he is trying to resist, not very well, to go out and be celebrated. go out and do tv hits on fox news. i think that impulse is problematic ultimately for these types of figures because they're going to lead them to say things like he did on laura ingraham's show. >> it's a good point. you could say the same about rudy giuliani and sidney powell during the 2020 election. >> right. >> why were they doing it? relevance. they were on tv. people were talking about them. something they crave. another development around january 6th yesterday, two former leaders of the proud boys were handed some of the longest sentences in the january 6th capitol attack. joe biggs, a top lieutenant, sentenced to 17 years. the sentencing a departure from the 33 year term prosecutors originally wanted after arguing biggs was a vocal leader of the group's shift to political violence. another key figure in this attack, zachary rehl, was given 15 years, below the 30 years sought by prosecutors. during sentencing, judge timmy kelly described it as, quote, it harmed a political custom. it broke the traditions of peacefully transferring power, among the most precious things we had as americans. notice i said had. we don't have it anymore. end quote. defense attorneys for rehl and biggs argued the sentences were harsh, saying their clients were just listening to orders from donald trump. >> donald trump stood, what, how far is the ellipse from here, mile and a half, 2 miles from here. he had 74 million votes. he was the commander in chief, the leader of the free world. he told people the election had been stolen. he said that while he was cloaked in the authority of the united states. there's a bigger threat than a riot at the capitol that stole an election. these people listen. couple years would have been enough time. these sentences are obscene. >> this morning, two more proud boys will be sentenced, and the leader, enrique tarrio, expected to learn his punishment next tuesday. glenn kirschner, let's take the point from the defense attorney about the length of the sentences. not even half in some cases of what prosecutors were looking for, but still a decade and a half is a long time in jail. their argument is, donald trump made me do it. we were following orders. in fact, over the course of the trials, proud boy leaders were weeping in court, saying, "i screwed up that day. i know i did something wrong, but it was the big guy's fault." >> willie, i struggle with these sentences. you know, rarely did i have judges impose only half of the sentence that i was asking for as the prosecutor in the case. but, you know, i do think, you know, we have to accept the fact that they were responding to orders from the president of the united states. the commander in chief. you know, he was telling these folks, "your vote was stolen. your election was rigged. your president is being unlawfully taken from you. and if you don't go to the capitol and fight like hell, you won't have a country anymore. now, go down there and stop the certification." of course, he used the word "steal," which is helpful because it provides evidence of donald trump's criminal intent, because even he knew it wasn't stolen. you know, i reflect on my own experience. i joined the army in the 1980s and served on active duty 6 1/2 years because i was willing to listen to the commander in chief at the time. i was willing to go somewhere and fight like hell if i was being told, "if you don't do that, you won't have a country anymore." you know, i would have gone wherever i was deployed. some of these defendants believe donald trump and, frankly, you're entitled to believe the president of the united states, even though people who can discern fact from fiction knew donald trump was lying. so i have mixed feelings about sentences that are only half of what the prosecutors are asking for, but i think, in part, it's a recognition that donald trump is the one who was really responsible for the crimes, and the sentences are reflecting that. >> yeah. gene, it's something we've seen again and again in these cases, these trials as they've played out, with people who were at the capitol, people, in this case, who led the attack on the capitol, and it is a legal defense, right? they're trying to keep out of jail. they need something. but in some cases, and both of these guys who were sentenced yesterday crying in court. mr. rehl saying, "i'm done pedaling lies for other people who don't care about me." apologizing to his friends, family, even apologizing to prosecutors, saying, "look, i believed lies about the election. i know now that they were lies." it didn't really spare them. they're going to jail for 15 and 17 years respectively, but this is the case they are making. donald trump and others, members of the media, told us a lie. we bought it and attacked the capitol in what we thought was a patriotic act. >> yeah, willie, i think that we've had, what, hundreds of these january 6th cases now come through the courts, and we've seen defendants convicted and sentenced. i think, at this point, we can look and say, overall, the justice system is getting this right. the foot soldiers, the people who simply were true believers, who came to town because they believed everything donald trump told them about the stolen election and just sort of followed the crowd and went into the capitol, they're being punished but they're being punished with much shorter sentences for less serious offenses than the proud boys and the oath keepers. the proud boys and oath keepers came organized. they came with gear. they came with tactical plans. to upset our constitutional order and to essentially stage what would have amounted to a coup d'etat by stopping the certification of a free and fair election. that's a much more serious offense. especially the defendants who were convicted of seditious conspiracy. it deserves these longer sentences. i agree with glenn, that maybe there's some mitigation because they were being told to do so by the president of the united states. there will be a reckoning in judge tanya chutkan's court for that former president. but in the meantime, these sentences seem about right to me. they are serious sentences. federal prison, you're going to do the time, and that's a long time. 15 years, 17 years, this is a long time to think about what you did. i think they're appropriate. >> glenn, what about that point that gene makes, which is the way the justice system is working? it has been slow and patient, but here it is. it's a lot of people to get through in the case of january 6th. even now, georgia, you have the 19 co-defendants. even look at rudy giuliani's defamation case. he's going to have to pay a bunch of money to two election workers in georgia who he defamed and made lies about and, frankly, ruined their lives. it does appear, and maybe not fast enough for some people, it will appear now, though, the bill is coming due for so many of these people, and the justice system is doing its job. >> yeah. no, i agree with gene. as conflicted as i am about some of these sentences, i do think the justice system or systems, both federal and state kind of writ large, are getting this right. i think the injustice that i feel that is at play every minute of every day is that the people who were following donald trump's orders are, you know, pretty promptly being arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned, and the general who gave the unlawful order is running for president, going to dinner parties, holding fundraisers, and putting in danger with his statements and his posts everybody else who is trying to hold him accountable. judges, prosecutors, witnesses, jurors, and their family members in some instances. so until we remedy that by, you know, getting donald trump held accountable for his crimes, it still feels like we are sort of living with an injustice at the moment. i do think, and i've believed all along, that the system will get there and hold trump and the rest of the hierarchy of the insurrection, the suits of the insurrection, not just the boots, accountable for what they've done. >> by the way, not only is donald trump seeing his supporters go to jail for what he stoked, he's also having them pay his legal bills by raising money around all of this. nbc news legal analyst glenn kirschner, thanks so much. so great to have you expertise on all this. appreciate it. ahead on "morning joe," the latest on mitch mcconnell's condition after another health care this week, and what republican presidential candidate nikki haley is saying about it now. plus, long-time republican strategist karl rove tears into vivek ramaswamy's 2024 candidacy, arguing republicans deserve a choice, not an echo. we'll read from rove's new piece. and brand-new reporting this morning about the white house building a war room in anticipation of a republican-led impeachment inquiry. you're watching "morning joe" on a friday morning. we'll be right back. i'm your football-obsessed-best-man. and i think you having your big day, during the big game, is the worst. what are you kidding me? 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do you have any concerns about his ability? >> no, i don't. >> he says, "no, i don't have concerns about mcconnell's ability to do his job." meanwhile, nikki haley, who called for mental competency tests for lawmakers over the age of 75, was asked about mcconnell's health scare. >> it's sad. no one should feel good about seeing that. you know, any more than we should feel good about seeing dianne feinstein. any more than we should feel good about seeing joe biden's decline. what i will say is, right now, the senate is the most privileged nursing home in the country. i mean, you know, mitch mcconnell has done some great things, and he deserves credit. but you have to know when to leave. that is why i'm strongly in support of term limits in this country. i think that we do need mental competency tests for anyone over the age of 75. i wouldn't care if they did them over the age of 50. but these are people making decisions on our national security. they're making decisions on our economy, on the border. we need to know they're at the top of their game. you can't say that right now looking at congress. >> jen palmieri, gracious there from nikki haley than was president biden to mcconnell, has she's calling the congress a nursing home. she's supporting term limits, which is getting traction. is it your sense that may go anywhere? number two, how much do you think, knowing washington as well as you do, there are private conversations among senate republicans about what comes next after mitch mcconnell, about whether, perhaps, he should at least maybe not give up his seat but step aside from his leadership role? >> yeah. you know, we have term limits. they're called elections. voters get to decide who, you know, they support. they know how old people are when they vote for them. california voters understood how old feinstein was when they re-elected her. you know, they chose to re-elect her. you know, this idea of a competency test, imagine, it's hard to talk about, think about how fraught that would be. i mean, recall the trump doctor from 2016 who gave him, you know -- how would you do something like that? it is her attempt to make age a larger point. but in terms of what is going on with the senate, i -- you know, there's a lot of concern about mcconnell has been a very effective, use the word liberally, effective leader, and if he goes, what can happen? there are sort of three senators in the wings waiting that could take his place. but having this happen a second time, i think there is, you know, there is chatter in the senate, like it might be time to make a change. whether or not you can execute on that before the end of the year, but it's difficult to imagine how that plays out. there's a lot of tough issues congress has to deal with, including a possible shutdown of the government. you know, there's concern whether or not mcconnell can operate as effectively as he normally does. >> to jen's point, having it happen a second time changes the seriousness. it can't be a one-off dehydration. mcconnell did receive that note from the senate physician yesterday. sam stein, people we've been talking to in washington, not sure they buy it, democrats and republicans alike. they're concerned mcconnell can keep his post. maybe his seat, but leadership is a different area. talk to us a little bit about how things could change if he were to step aside. we have reported, you know, how the white house used mcconnell, once a real democratic villain, but now an important partner. someone the president can work with. a bulwark to trumpism. someone they need on ukraine. >> yeah. >> also, how would it change the dynamics of the senate and potentially embolden some on the far right? >> well, i'll get jen's test out of the way. person, woman, man, camera, tv. >> there it is. >> that a boy. >> got it. >> okay. this allows me now to address jonathan's point. >> go ahead. [ laughter ] >> you bring up a valid, interesting point here, which is that, you know, mcconnell, ten years ago, was a super villain for democrats. the blockading of merrick garland's supreme court nomination, clearly the pinnacle of obstructionism for democrats. vowed to not let obama have a second term in his first term, another emblem of how he was a thorn in their side. since then, in this trump era, especially for this white house, he's become -- i wouldn't call him an ally, but an occasional ally. he was there on the infrastructure deal. he's been with biden on a few legislative propositions, including the modest gun reform legislation. more than that, he's kind of been a bit of a bulwark against trumpism and, of course, there for ukraine funding. it is important for people to understand, there is a very, actually, tight personal relationship between mcconnell and biden. biden spoke at the mcconnell center in kentucky shortly after that first debt ceiling fight in 2011 to praise the then minority leader for being a partner. that was during the bad days. now, they've been a fairly formidable partnership. inside the white house, there's real concern on a personal level, of course, but also on a political level, as to what happens if mcconnell were to step aside or leave the senate entirely. you know, yes, there's others in the senate, in the republican party in the senate that they can work with, but there is a sense that he, you know, is so important on so many key legislative vehicles that they need, including government funding, which is what he was talking about prior to this latest freezing episode. there is real concern inside the administration. >> sam stein, on top of his excellent reporting and analysis, just crushing the montreal cognitive assessment this morning. well done, my friend. >> appreciate it. thank you. >> very impressive. coming up next here, russia holding sham elections in illegally occupied areas of ukraine amid the ongoing conflict there. we'll have details on how ukrainian officials are responding. 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( ♪♪ ) constant contact delivers the marketing tools your small business needs to keep up, excel, and grow. constant contact. helping the small stand tall. thank you. when you walk up to the counter at the pharmacy and you have a new prescription, you don't know what it's gonna cost. that's why i always recommend you check the singlecare app before you go to the counter. before i pick up my prescription at the pharmacy, i always check singlecare. it only takes 10 seconds, and it's free to use. it helps me find a better price on my meds. with pharmacy partners nationwide, singlecare is saving millions of americans money on their meds each day. i found a cheaper price with singlecare. yes, you did. see, give it a try. go to singlecare.com or download the free app today. that's some bad luck brian. and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky...day [crash] so today is your lucky...day for a great low rate, go with the general. it's a beautiful live picture from the top of our building at 30 rockefeller center. look at that. joe says mika lives in an apartment at the top of the comcast building here. i've never been invited us, frankly. it is the friday before labor day. getting ready for a beautiful weekend. meanwhile, overseas, russia has begun staging what experts call sham elections on territory it illegally annexed from ukraine a year ago. footage out of the donetsk region shows citizens holding russian passports and turning in ballots on a box marked with the russian coat of arms. routers reports the kremlin picked governors of each territory are seeking full terms. joining us now, marc polymeropoulos, national security and intelligence analyst. marc, good morning. great to see you. you co-wrote a new piece on why biden must send ukraine the attackems it needs now. let's start with what they are exactly and why atacms are essential to winning this war. >> thank you. good morning. we wrote the piece because we strongly believe in the notion the united states can affect the battlefields. what does that mean? revision of the long-range ballistic missile systems that would allow ukraine to hit anywhere in crimea. that'd be behind the russian defensive lines, supply depots, command and control or logistics. we see criticism from the united states, unfortunately, and officials talking about the slow pace of the ukrainian counteroffensive. the matter of fact, we haven't resourced them properly. these atacm missiles, it's frustrating it hasn't happened yesterday. >> zelenskyy made a borderline obsession of the government saying, we need these now. the training programs have picked up. give us a your assessment as to what difference they'd make were they to arrive, but how likely is it they'll get there in time to make any real difference in this current sort of, you know, fighting season or two? >> right, jonathan. we're behind the curve on timelines. in the beginning, we had some senior officials talk about, you know, an 18-month training timeline, training evolution, and that wasn't true. it was four months. but as we said on this program many times, and admiral stavridis has been open about this, this is a bit late. now, this has a lot to do with the future of the ukrainian military, but i don't think it is going to affect the current fighting season. let me go back to the atacm issue. that would. there's a lot of talk in the administration, well, maybe there is an inventory issue on atacms, or perhaps there's fears of russian escalation. let's do a proof of concept. give them 100 atacms and see what happens. the ukrainians are hitting targets inside russia every night now with drones. i think they've blown past this idea of escalation. you know, the article is a description on something that can affect the battlefield and do so now. i think it is really important the administration do this. >> marc, you mention the grumbling in washington about the ukrainian counteroffensive going slowly and not really taking that much territory. what is your assessment of how this battle is going? >> well, two things on this. first, i think it is rather untoward for anonymous officials, you know, talking in the u.s. media, complaining, again, about a slow count counter offensive when we haven't resourced them. i'd like to see that stop. on the second part, look, over the last, what, 72 hours or so, ukrainians seem to have broken through in the zaporizhzhia region, the russian defensive line. perhaps they are making some more progress. again, it's just the idea to slowly but surely wear down russian defenses. the final point on this, and, again, i have been very open about, you know, the historic nature of what the united states and the biden administration has done for ukraine, but there is this notion, again, that we can do a bit more. the idea of a frozen conflict, to me, just doesn't have to be the case. again, we can affect the battlefield. that was the mantra i lived by in cia. we can effect outcomes. also, the atacms, unlike f-16s, can be used right away. >> there have been grumblings, particularly from this republican presidential field, we heard it from the debate, that it is time to walk away from ukraine. one candidate said, "i'd cut off support to ukraine all together." bizarre claims about letting russia do its thing as a counterweight to china or something. are you confident, though, as you watch this, that american support for ukraine is steady, that it is holding, and that it will be in, that the united states will be in for the long haul? >> well, you know, willie, it's a great question. you know, there are times where i am confident because i think there are very responsible members in the republican party, in the national security sphere, who do want the aid to continue. but there's also this kind of, you know, maga/populist wing, and you hear it from the former president. you hear it from some of the other candidates, that talk about cutting off aid. who listens to this? the ukrainians. >> yeah. >> the europeans, as well. i think it is incumbent on, in the presidential debates, for example, ask you saw nikki haley do this, to counter that. i have faith there are responsible members on the republican side. but, you know, that's not kind of locked in stone. look, this is not, as we've said many times on this show, this is not republican party of ronald reagan in any sense. so, you know, reason to be concerned, but still some time to go. >> the new piece online at "the messenger" titled, "why biden must send ukraine the atacms it needs now." intelligence analyst marc polymeropoulos. great to see you. thank you so much. still ahead, a look at some of the stories making front pages across the country. including one state where top election officials are considering removing donald trump from the 2024 ballot. how would that work? plus, while the former president takes issue with his federal election interference trial starting on the day before one of the biggest dates on the republican primary calendar, one of our next dp guests argues, quote, the trials don't interrupt his campaign, they are his campaign. we'll explain when "morning joe" comes back. joe" comes back mmm, popcorn. 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[ laughter ] >> oh, my god. sam, joe and i have said many times, it's just the acting is so bad. that's where the director calls cut and steps in and says, "okay, that was a great first take. what we're trying to do is simulate human behavior. let's try that again, the way people actually behave." but ted cruz never misses a chance for a little bad acting and a little theater. >> i totally disagree. that was emmy worthy stuff. seems really natural to me. this is what i do when i go out and drink with my buds. i have them line up behind me. i grab the beer, then when i drink, they subsequently drink in ssynchronization. that's how it is done. i don't know what bars you go to in new york, willie. >> oh, my god. gene, ted cruz, as we know already, just finds the issue of the moment, the outrage on twitter, the outrage on wherever he is getting his information, and just pushes on that button. >> yeah. whether there actually is a button or not, he pushes on it, right? this is not a thing that he is complaining about. >> not a thing. >> yet, he is going to complain about it and do his, you know, do his bad audition for, i don't know, for the ted cruz show, i guess, which i'm not picking up, not putting on my schedule. >> john, is that how you roll when you hit the clubs in brooklyn, crack open a beer with your buds? >> couldn't be less like that. sam, there's a lot about that night you don't remember. i mean, this is the latest from ted cruz. of course, this is not the first time he's done stunts on camera. we recall him hiding in thebord. there he is here, looking at this, blair witch project style here. jen palmieri, he tries to stir up the outrage. that time, it was about the migrants. this time, it's about the right to have more than two lone star beers a week. >> fake outrage executed badly. >> there it is. willie, that is ted cruz. >> a lot of fun to watch. we'll play that again later this morning. my gosh. all right. sam stein, eugene robinson, i hope you simulate cracking a few beers this labor day weekend, as well. >> absolutely. >> good to see you. >> sure will. >> see ya later. coming up, as house republicans look to launch an impeachment inquiry into president biden, peter alexander will join us with new reporting on how the white house is preparing for that. 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learn how abbvie could help you save. the basic principle in the justice system is if a prominent person commits a crime and is seeking office, that doesn't give them immunity. if there is enough time to have it resolved before the election, it should be resolved. the idea that, oh, okay, i'm sorry, we'll let you run in the election, and after we'll address it, that's not a principle. i mean, just think, some mayor charged, you know, with massive embezzlement and says, well, it's a year and a half to the election, let's put that on hold while i run for re-election, it's silly. it's silly. now, you can argue about whether he should have been charged and so forth, but the idea this is interfering with the election is simply wrong. >> former attorney general bill barr pouring more cold water on donald trump's argument about claims of election interference. one of our next guests argues trump's trials are the campaign because for his followers, nothing else will matter. also ahead, new reporting on the war room being set up in the white house now to prepare for a possible impeachment inquiry into president biden. welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, september 1st. yes, september. jonathan lemire, jen palmieri still with us. joining the discussion, we have former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official chuck recognizen rosenberg. founder of the bulwark, charlie sykes. and editor of the "new republic," michael tomaski. good morning to you all. donald trump pleading not guilty in fulton county. the team entered the plea yesterday for the 13 felony charges he faces, including racketeering and conspiracy. the plea was entered in writing as the attorneys filed a waiver to tell the court he would not appear for next week's scheduled arraignment. the former president's legal team also pushing to separate his case from the other co-defendants. the filing argues october 23rd is not enough time to prepare a defense. next month now. that date was set for the speedy trial of co-defendant kenneth cheseboro. fani willis asked a judge to set that date for the rest co-defendants, as well. there will be cameras in the courtroom. that decision confirmed by the judge yesterday. hearings and proceedings related to the case will be televised and live streamed on the court's youtube channel. so, chuck, let's take first the idea of donald trump severing his case from the others. kenneth cheseboro, it appears, will get what he wants, fani willis saying, sure, october 23rd, we're ready to go. what about the idea of parceling these trials out, which is probably not going to happen, but what about donald trump at a much later date? >> i don't know about a much later date, but he can carve it out. october 23rd is quick, even from me, coming from a district where things move quick. if the government is ready to go, and cheseboro wants october 23rd, that's fine for him. other defendants, including mr. trump, it really is not enough time. so i don't think an ask for more time, to push it past october 23rd, is unreasonable. i imagine the judge will grant it. but, to your point, you're not going to see 19 separate trials of 19 individuals. that is far too cumbersome. there is a presumption in the law that people who are indicted together, charged together, will be tried together. a few pieces may break off here or there, but you're not going to see, to your point, willie, 19 separate trials. >> chuck, there's been a sense that we've had this conversation on this show and other analysts have said, as well, that this case, the georgia case, the state case, would take a backseat, would be deferential to some of the federal matters, particularly the jack smith election interference trial in washington. seems like the d.a. doesn't necessarily want to do that, at least not publicly, at least not yet. how do you see this playing out in terms ofey the scheduling between the trials? when do you think they'll happen? >> jonathan, you put your finger on one of the problems here. there is no supreme air traffic controller, right? courts have to accommodate other courts. now, you're talking about four different courts in three systems. two in the federal system, one in the new york state system and one in the georgia state system. so not necessarily an easy thing to do, and all of the prosecutors want their case to go first, most do at least. all of the judges, you know, set their own timetable. they don't have a boss. so there's going to be -- it is going to be -- i think this is the technical legal word -- a bit of a mess with people, you know, jockeying for position and some defendants wanting their trial sooner and some wanting it later. judges having to accommodate, to some extent, mr. trump and his legal team. despite the fact there are four cases and lots of defendants, there's only one mr. trump, which seems to me, by the way, to be plenty, and he can only be in one place at a time. there's going to have to be accommodations made between these various courts. >> charlie, there was a significant moment yesterday, as we talk about everything going on in georgia right now, when the republican governor there, brian kemp, dismissed calls in no uncertain terms from far-right state lawmakers to impeach the district attorney prosecuting these 19 co-defendants, fani willis. during a press conference yesterday, governor kemp argued that calling for a special session to remove willis from her position is not only not feasible, it may ultimately prove to be unconstitutional. >> up to this point, i have not seen any evidence that d.a. willis' actions or lack thereof warrant action by the oversight commission. the bottom line, in the state of georgia, as long as i'm governor, we're going to follow the law and the constitution. regardless of who it helps or harms politically. in georgia, we will not be engaging in political theater that only inflames the emotions of the moment. we will do what is right. we will uphold our oaths as public servants. and it's my belief that our state will be better off for it. let me just say this. you know, these are the distractions that gets you to lose elections. the last time we were talking about special sessions here in the state of georgia, just a few weeks later, the republican majority lost two u.s. senate races. i can tell you that as long as i'm governor, we are going to stay focused on the issues that help all georgians. that is the way you win races. that is the way you move forward. not focusing on the past or some grift or scam that somebody is doing to help them raise a few dollars into their campaign account. >> charlie sykes, governor kemp just swatting away this idea that we've heard from some members of congress, by the way, across georgia, that they're going to somehow impeach -- and members of the statehouse there -- they're going to impeach fani willis, get her out of the way, get somebody in there who will be helpful to donald trump and maybe get him off for all these alleged crimes there. governor kemp has to be given credit for that. it may seem obvious to say, but these days, it is important to say it out loud. >> it is not obvious anymore. it is extraordinary. obviously, it is a very implicit or explicit shot at what is going on in congress right now, where republicans in congress have really embraced the idea of obstruction as part of their agenda. talking about defunding the special prosecutor. what you had there was a reality check from what republicans used to sound like in many of these respects. of course, you know, the georgia republican party has paid a huge price for this kind of demagoguery, for this obstruction of justice. it was a very, very strong statement, and, again, the contrast between georgia republicans and, say, arizona republicans or what's happening to the republican party in michigan or pennsylvania is really striking. i think it does go back to that january 5th election and the midterm election, where republicans lost winnable elections because they decided they were going to play these kinds of games. you know, they messed around and found out what the consequences were. i think that in the short term, this is good news. you have a republican governor standing up against these attempts to have the legislature come in and to basically defund the prosecution, defund the law enforcement apparatus in the states that are trying to hold people accountable. >> jen palmieri, i know people, certainly who watch this show, don't have particularly good feelings for governor kemp on policy issues and the governor's race a few years back, but he and secretary of state brad raffensperger have stood in the door in the state of georgia, standing up to a guy they've said they supported, a guy they voted for in donald trump, but effectively, again, saying yesterday, that the rules, the constitution are more important than this guy, and we're not going to play these games in georgia. >> and both raffensperger and kemp were primaried by trump-endorsed candidates, and they won huge in their primaries, let alone in the general election, because people respond to leadership. there is -- you know, i think one of the reasons why, you know, kemp was able to do so well versus some of these candidates that are trying to oppose trump is the inconsistency in how they treat trump. the lack of integrity, that comes through. voters see that. you know, charlie, one thing that kemp said yesterday, he talked about grifters. i feel like -- and how some grifters are trying to raise money off this. using this to raise money. until i went to cpac, i don't really have a great window into what that sort of world is like. there are the cpac audience who are true believers, really believe in trump and everything he was saying, and backstage, i got a glimpse at all the people making money off of this enterprise, if you will. can you illuminate on that? because i feel like this is a big part of why all of the trump enterprise continues to get propped up. >> oh, this is a very, very big part. you know, what is the old adage about, you know, all causes, you know, begin as a mission and end up as a racket. you know, places like cpac have become a racket, but they're a subset of what is going on. all of the grifters out there who feel the need to stoke the outrage all the time, keep having to push the envelope, why do they do this? because this is the way they will get the small donors. this is the way they will be able to raise money. there are so many entities out there online who are, direct mail, and this has been going on for years. it is the perpetual outrage machine that laid the groundwork for the moment we have right now. when the governor mentioned the grifters, my eyes popped open. of course, the entire trump campaign now has become this massive grift. give me your money. you know, people who sign over your social security check, you know, from retirees in wyoming so this billionaire can pay his legal bills. it is impossible to know what is going on on the right right now without understanding the role these rackets and these fundraising programs, you know, are playing, because it has become this massive, massive grift, which will, of course, get exponentially worse in 2024. >> that figures, michael, into your new piece in "the new republic," titled, "trump's trials don't interrupt his campaign. they are his campaign." explain more by what you mean by that. >> sure. thanks for having me. the conventional, willie, that trump needs to run a presidential campaign, on the one hand. on the other hand, he needs to sit for these four trials and will be in four different courtrooms. he is going to be going back and forth between the two. how does he manage doing both these things simultaneously. the conventional wisdom is wrong and misunderstands what his relationship with his followers are. the trials are the campaign. the trials are the campaign. the mugshot is the campaign poster, right? the trials are the campaign because, you know, he's not running any kind of conventional campaign. joe biden is going to run on the economy, presuming it is good. he is going to run on this overtime pay thing he just did, this right to organize thing the nlrb did last week, prescription drugs, so on, conventional issues. donald trump is not running on anything like that. he is running on donald trump. he is running on donald trump as the martyr, and he has been laying the groundwork for this. this has been his rhetoric for months now. they're coming after me. they're really coming after you. i'm the only thing that stands in between them and you. the trials allow him to be the martyr. his followers aren't going to care about his plan for prescription drugs. they're going to care about his martyrdom for them as they perceive it. and to talk about charlie, i'm sure you've seen, with respect to the mugshot, you go to the trump website, that mugshot is on mugs, beer cozies, t-shirts, posters, everything, with the words, "never surrender" below them. that's the kind of campaign he is going to run. so there is no tension between his campaign and his presence in the courtroom. the presence in the courtroom, i think as far as he is concerned, helps him. >> michael, i could not agree with you more, as someone who covered closely every campaign that trump has had. this is his campaign. this is the grievance. to this point, at least with his base, extremely effective, the argument of, they're coming after me. next, they'll come after you. you hear from his supporters saying, well, if they can arrest him, what can they do to your family, playing into the deep state paranoia that is key to a big part of the republican party right now. so with that said, this is going to help him in the republican primary. but let's get you to take a fast forward a little bit. next summer, next fall, it is a general election campaign against president biden, who is running a conventional campaign. you know, the same images of trump literally sitting in a courtroom, day after day, how do you see that playing out with those swing voters, the independents who so often actually decide elections in those handful of battleground states? >> right. that's the silver lining for foes of trump and people who want to see joe biden beat him. i can't imagine that sits very well with swing voters. first of all, just quickly on the primary, there is a segment of the republican primary electorate, i think, with whom it also won't sit well. the question is, how large is that segment? i don't think it is probably large enough for trump to lose a primary, because then, not only do they have to be offended by it, but they all have to coalesce around one of the alternative candidates. i just don't see that happening. but moving ahead to the general, yeah, the swing voter in waukesha county, bucks county, cobb and gwinnett counties, i don't see that swing voter being particularly impressed by the prospect of a candidate for president sitting in courtrooms and having the things being said about him that will be said about him. if there is a conviction before november of 2024, i have to think that's a big problem in the minds of the kinds of swing voters that he carried in 2016, that helped elevate him narrowly to the presidency. >> yeah, the martyrdom works for those die hard trump voters but probably not for the swing in the suburbs, as you say. the new piece online for "the new republic," michael tomasky, thank you so much. charlie, go back to governor kemp and what he said as we talk about swing voters in the atlanta suburbs. he has been, when appropriate, critical of donald trump. at these really crucial moments around the 2020 election. we're hearing it again around trump's case in georgia. his approval rating is 60% in the state of georgia. republican governor. does that not send a message to other republicans, where the conventional wisdom is, you can't cross trump. you make his voters angry, you're dead. it's a political death sentence. how is governor kemp able to pull that off if it is so hard? >> it is an awfully interesting question. now, he is sending that message, but, apparently, it is not being received by other republicans. he has managed to show that you can be a conservative republican. you can align yourself with trump on a variety of issues, but you don't have to go all in. and it's not touching the third rail of republican politics. i mean, you know, to the point earlier, he was challenged by a very, very strong trumpist primary opponent, and he won big. brad raffensperger won easily for re-election. you'd think other republicans around the country would follow him. there are republican governors who i think have modelled themselves on it. but he is, again, this indication that there is life after trump if you're not willing to -- even if you're not willing to buy the most deplorable aspects of it. >> yeah, he seems to be lonely in that effort, but it is working for him in the state of georgia. charlie, thanks so much. have a great labor day weekend. appreciate you always. chuck, one of donald trump's co-defendants in the georgia case, i don't know, may have confessed a little bit to crimes during an interview on fox news. former trump lawyer john eastman appeared to admit to attempting to stop the certification of the 2020 election. here's his exchange with laura ingraham. >> on january 6th, what did you want to happen? and how was that historically grounded? in the history of our country, how would that have taken place? just so viewers can understand, what would have unfolded, and how that would have ultimately been constitutional? >> you know, several things. some people had urged that vice president pence simply had power to reject electors whose certification was still pending in -- >> i don't believe that, but go ahead. i don't believe that. that's one thing i don't agree with. >> i don't either. i explicitly told vice president pence in the oval office on january 4th, though it was an open issue, under the circumstances we had, i thought it was the weaker argument and it'd be foolish to exercise such power, even if he had it. what i recommended, and i've said this repeatedly, is that he exceed a request from more than 100 state legislators in the swing states, to give them a week to try to sort out the impact of what everybody acknowledged was illegality in the conduct of the election. >> i don't think everyone acknowledged it. yeah, not everyone acknowledged it. >> well -- >> that was the argument that was being made, obviously. there were irregulariies that everybody had seen. whether it rose to the level of changing the outcome of the election, again, without a legal proceeding in the states that mattered, the argument ultimately was a difficult one to make. i mean, hence, here we are. >> obviously, not everyone thought there was illegal activity, chuck rosenberg. a slew of court cases proved, as republican governors and secretary of states and recounts proved again and again, forgive me for being repetitious with that, but we have to say it whenever we hear it. what'd you hear as a prosecutor? what'd your ear pick up in that interview. >> it is interesting. i mean, my first reaction, willie, is that if i were mr. eastman's defense attorney, i would have tackled him in the green room and lot let him get on set. it's always a bad idea. my second reaction is it is more helpful to the government than mr. eastman may have intended . i don't think it is a full confession. don't think he said he intentionally tried to thwart the power in a democracy. he still have the defense that he was acting in good faith or he believed in sort of these, you know, spurious theories that he was espousing. but this is why, as a defense lawyer, you don't let your client get on the stand. because he will continue to do this, i imagine, and the government will be watching carefully. it can pick and choose pieces of things that he says, and they can use it in their case in chief, their presentation at his trial. so is this ever a good idea? no. it is never a good idea. i don't think it is a full confession, but i think it helps the government. i think they're going to be grateful to mr. eastman as he continues to talk publicly about his own case. >> i love the image of you in a green room tackling a client, chuck rosenberg. something i hope i never have to see. former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, glad to have you with us. thanks so much. as house republicans look to launch an impeachment inquiry into joe biden, the white house is preparing its own war room to defend the president. lawyers, legislative aides and communication staffers are tasked with leading an aggressive response. this comes as house speaker kevin mccarthy has signalled again an impeachment inquiry is on the horizon. republicans have been looking into the president's son, hunter's, foreign business dealings, alleging, without evidence, that biden engaged in bribery to enrich his son when he was vice president. joining us now, nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander. peter, good morning. great to see you. what is the strategy here? >> reporter: willie, the white house, nbc news' first report, he's stood up this team of two dozen lawyers, legislative aids, communications aides, as well. monica alba and catherine doyle reporting. we spoke to aide sources familiar with the effort right now. they say it's been taking shape for months in the white house counsel's office. they're preparing this vigorous pushback on this impeachment inquiry. they cast it, in effect, as an evidence-free partisan sham that shows the republican efforts or, i guess, pensioned for chaos, as one white house aide told us. never in modern history has impeachment been based on no evidence whatsoever. as you know, this impeachment inquiry would be focused on the alleged criminal activity by joe biden's son, hunter biden, as part of his foreign business dealings, would also look into these unproven claims that joe biden engaged in bribery or corruption of some kind. white house aides say to us that they spent much of august sort of reviewing past impeachment efforts. specifically, they are taking note of what happened back in 1998 with president bill clinton. they have looked back to that as a template for their efforts to try to push back against the impeachment inquiry taking place right now. they then accuse the gop of political overreach. it was politically beneficial for former president clinton. i think his approval rating went up to 73%. even former president trump saw his numbers grow during the more recent impeachment proceedings. the team, the biden team, notes this effort, they've really done -- they've made great lengths or great efforts to try to separate this from the day-to-day operations in the white house. this is not attached to the operations they're most focused on, which is, obviously, running the country, focusing heavily on the economy, which they think will be a driving issue going into the campaign year. but this is some of the new reporting we have. as one aide told us in the simplest of terms, "this is not an evidence-based effort, it is an election-focused effort by republicans," willie. >> peter is right, jen. for a while, the white house, the biden white house, steered clear of the word "war room," thinking they don't need to do that. it's changed as the threat evolved. aides are resigned to the idea that this will be an impeachment inquiry. unclear if we get to the full impeachment. you have experience working in a white house and have gone through investigations. what's your read on, first of all, the approach the white house is taking in terms of gearing up for the probes to come, but also how the politics of this work. do you think they'll see a bump if they're right and the republican probes are seen as frivolous? >> no white house wants to go through impeachment, but if it is going to happen, these are the best circumstances. the evidence-free circumstances are the best. i worked for president clinton. you know, peter is right. his highest -- it's not just he was in the highest, he was 73% after he was impeached. it was his highest approval rating ever. second highest was after the republicans shut down the government. so the democrats, you know, biden doesn't want from to happen. biden doesn't want there to be a shutdown. the biden white house does not want there to be an impeachment inquiry. neither do the house democrats. but both of those things may happen, and there are ways it will -- the most likely thing is it'll be beneficial to the democrats. peter, i saw something this morning where andrew bates, one of the spokespeople at the white house, said, you know, pointed at marjorie taylor greene, saying, i'm not going to vote for government spending unless there is an impeachment inquiry funding as part of that. the white house seems to be, the strategy is to link a possible shutdown to a politically-motivated impeachment. >> no, you're exactly right, jen. you put your finger on an important item here. we're seeing that not just from andrew bates, who speaks publicly on the record about these things, but other aides say, look what marjorie taylor greene said yesterday. to be clear, she said she's not going to vote in support of government funding unless there is an impeachment inquiry into the president of the united states right now. the democrats, the white house, those aides feel very strongly that when americans sort of digest that language, that effort, they're going to say, one party, the white house insists, is focused on trying to move the country forward and another is focused on the past. that's their strategy in all this. marjorie taylor greene is not alone, obviously. this is a challenge for kevin mccarthy as he tries to keep everyone in line. the next natural step is an impeachment inquiry, but there are members on the further right of the republican party who are making this a more challenging next month, not just for his party but, frankly, for the country. >> new reporting online now at nbc news.com. peter alexander, thanks so much. by the way, we'll be handing off coverage to peter at 10:00 eastern this morning. we'll see you then, peter. thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," some progressives issuing a warning to president biden, calling on him to sharpen his re-election pitch. we'll have the new reporting and what it means for the biden/harris campaign. our next guest says so-called maga republicans are jeopardizing their party's chances in 2024 and beyond. john della volpe joins us to break down his findings about younger versus older republican voters. you're watching "morning joe" on a friday morning. we'll be right back. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car 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ask your doctor about every-other-month cabenuva. every other month, and i'm good to go. let us be honest as republicans. i'm the only person on the stage not bought and paid for, so i can say this. the climate change agenda is a hoax. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. >> the climate change ajen dpa agenda is a hoax. >> vivek ramaswamy down playing the threats to climate change, saying the agenda is a hoax. that was at the primary debate. ramaswamy holds that stance, though 68% of gen-z voters believe climate change is a crisis that demands the immediate attention of the federal government. joining us now is john della volpe, who conducted the survey for his company, social atmosphere. in a new piece, john writes, maga republicans are jeopardizing their party's chances for success by ignoring the issues that matter most to young voters. john, good morning. this is a fascinating look at some of this data. it looks at a split within the party, between older voters and younger voters. what'd you find? >> thanks, willie. you know, when i look back at this data, i was -- i think many of us were preconditioned to think all the divides are within the democratic party. in fact, i think the divides among the republican party are far more precarious right now. significant divides, as i said, when i looked by generation. when you compare gen-z and millenials, a significant part of the republican party, all voters under 42 or so, compare those with older voters. we see, too start with, that 54% of younger republicans don't consider themselves to be strong republicans, number one. only 28% are comfortable calling themselves straight conservatives. there is just a less connection to the party and to the ideology, number one. i think when you boil it all down, you know, younger republicans are trying to say to their parents and grandparents, let's focus not just on owning the libs, but let's focus on an economy that helps me live my best life. let's focus on a community where i can feel safe walking into a student dormitory, auditorium or laboratory. let's focus, as you said at the outset, on solutions for climate change rather than denying it. i think the early stage of this campaign, what they've been hearing, it is a turn-off. >> nikki haley got some kudos at the debate in milwaukee on the issue of abortion. she got credit for a reasonable, nuanced position to it, and recognizing what can and cannot be done legislatively and speaking, frankly, like a human about it, and it is a difficult moment for women, deciding what to do there. is that one of the issues, along with climate change, that is something that there is a divide between the younger republicans and, you know, those who are older and, for now have power, but someday won't? >> you hit it right on the -- the nail right on the head, jonathan. yeah, we tested 24 different issues. only on five of those issues was there alignment within ten points, between older and younger republicans. one of the areas which we saw the greatest divergence was on reproductive health, as you mentioned. there is an 18-point gap between older and younger. younger folks are far more likely to consider that a priority, where older republicans are much more likely to focus on crime, border security, and other policies. so, listen, i think, you know, donald trump is doing well among all republicans, obviously, but i still think there is a solid half who are looking for alternatives. i think, you know, nikki haley seems to be tapping into the need and interest last week. >> couple questions. what issues are -- where are gen-z aligned with the republican party? what are the issues? i don't know if you looked at candidates, but was gen-z republicans coalescing around any republican candidate other than trump? >> not yet, jennifer. haven't yet. there is a large number of folks. it's still early and looking at some of the alternatives. i think the overall theme or value that connects republicans across generations is this feeling that they need to kind of protect their -- protect individual rights and freedoms. that's the thing that i think kind of connects all americans, but specifically all republicans. there wasn't a lot of gap or difference among issues really to the economy. around some access, around issues around gun violence, as well. those were the things that kind of connected people, but, as i said, far more things divided republicans than united them. i'm about to release another study looking at the democratic party by generation. i think we'll see much more unity than division. >> john, one last point i thought was really interesting in your piece, and we should underscore here, is the way voters are getting their information. we're talking about the republican party here. the platforms. it's not fox news. you know, we give a lot of attention to fox news, and rightly so, because so much information comes out for republicans there and conservatives. at the younger level, it is barstool, tiktok and reddit. it is not legacy news media. >> right. yeah, one of the things i found somewhat surprising is that the amount of time older republicans spend on x and twitter, as much time is spent on reddit and barstool, looking at current events related information within younger gen-z and millennial audiences. yeah, the media landscape is changing dramatically, basically every quarter. it's something to pay attention to. as i said, i think this is putting the republican party at risk this cycle, but also for many cycles ahead, when the older americans are essentially, you know, taking the party in a place where younger americans are not very comfortable. that's what we're seeing here. >> all so interesting. director of polling at the institute of politics at harvard university, john della volpe, thanks so much. coming up next, a symbol of gratitude to those who served the country. the quilt of valor foundation celebrating its 20th anniversary. it'll award its newest honoree and a dear friend of ours. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ born in the usa ♪ arthritis . with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can dramatically relieve ra and psa symptoms, including fatigue for some. it can stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? 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why does this matter to you? >> jonathan, what ties us together is our passion for making a difference. you heard quilts of valor story. authentically american, we are an apparel brand, great product all made in the u.s. how rare that is, when i graduated from west point in '93, over 50% was made in the u.s. we want to create jobs and help organizations like quilts of valor raise their brand. >> walk us through the process of how someone receives one of these quilts. >> absolutely. so our recipients are nominated. they're nominated by a family member, a community member, anybody that wants to see their service honored. they can be active duty military or a veteran. we have a form on our website, or they can connect with one of our 600 plus local groups for the nomination. >> colonel, talk about why you think this is important as a veteran yourself, to have this symbol, important symbol that means a lot to people, honoring service. >> when i came into the army a thousand years ago, we had a draft. the large proportion of americans of a certain age served. now, we've decided to outsource the defense of the country to a very small number of young men and women who are willing to do it. the fact is, most americans do not know anybody in uniform. my view has always been, if you live in a free country, you owe something in the form of service. but we have a significant number of young people who serve, and we don't even know about it. when they leave the service, they leave an organization where they have to rely on each other. they've learned all kinds of skills that they need to have for the rest of their lives. they go into an environment in which nobody around them has had the same experience as they have. it is easy to feel lost amid all these other people who have not served. it is important to recognize the service of these selfless people. >> tell me, when the recipients of these quilts, like, what do they tell you? what does it mean to them? what do they get out of it? they are literally surrounded by love and appreciation, but what does it mean to the people who receive these quilts? >> for many recipients, it's about comfort and healing. you know, they've been touched by war in various ways, and it's a moment for them, not only to be recognized for their service, but to maybe look at that service in a different light. particularly vietnam veterans. a chance to give them a good welcome home. >> lori and dean, you have a quilt here to present to our friend. let's take a look over here. everybody, let's walk up. walk over here. there it is. >> wow. >> stand right there. >> give us a sense, what are we looking at, the importance of th symbol? >> this quilt of valor is, you know, a symbol of love. there have been a lot of love and stitches, hours put into this quilt. it's an opportunity to tell you, colonel jacobs, thank you for your service and thank you for your sacrifice. we hope it also brings comfort, as well. this particular quilt was chosen especially for you. and i want to point out the eagle right here, then the soldiers on the right in the distance. to our organization, this quilt symbolizes leadership. that's been a hallmark of your career. you've led soldiers into battle, and you continue to shape the minds of our future military leaders. we are really privileged today to tell you thank you. for all you have done. and you served during a really difficult time during our history. you're one of the most decorated veterans of the vietnam war. medal of honor recipient. so i want to ensure that we welcome you home, as well. sir, thank you for your service. welcome home. >> well, thank you very much for your kind words. thank you for this. we have to remember this represents not just the exertions of one person but it represents the service and sacrifice of millions of americans. those who came before and those who will come after. we don't know, and we have to remember their service and sacrifice, because if we don't, we won't have them anymore. it's important. thank you very much for all you are doing to recognize the service of our veterans. >> thank you, sir. >> it is a beautiful i'm going to embarrass you a little bit, jack, and read from your medal of honor citation where it recounts your actions on that day in vietnam where you saved the lives of 14 people in one moment. captain jacobs by his bravery and action in the highest traditions of the military service has reflected great credit upon himself, his unit, and the u.s. army. jack, you're a great friend of ours, and a great friend to this nation. it's a beautiful quilt. congratulations. you can get more info at authenticallyamerican.us. the quilts of valor foundation, and the brand, authentically american, dean wegner and of course, colonel jacobs, of course, thank you very much. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well. ♪ ♪ jardiance ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance, ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart. ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to seee. ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c. ♪ jardiance works 24/7 in your body to flush out some sugar! and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction, and don't take it if you're on dialysis. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell, ♪ ♪ the little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ i need it cool at night. you trying to ice me out of the bed? 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[ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. let me just say this, you know, these are the distractions that get you to lose elections. the last time we were talking about special sessions here in the state of georgia, just a few weeks later the republican majority lost two u.s. senate races, and i can tell thaw as long as i'm governor, we are going to stay focused on the issues that help all georgians. that is the way you win races. that is the way you move forward, not focusing on the past or some grifter scam that somebody's doing to help them raise a few dollars into their campaign account. >> georgia's republican governor brian kemp with some strong words obviously talking there about donald trump and calling out far-right members of his party who want a special session to remove the district attorney prosecuting donald trump. he says it's not going to happen on his watch. this comes as the former president officially now pleads not guilty in the fulton county election interference case. we'll have much more on all of that in just a moment. plus, the republican presidential candidate again calling for term limits in the senate following mitch mcconnell's latest health scare. we'll have more on his medical situation. also ahead, we'll look at the biden administration's plan to close a major loophole for gun sales. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, september 1st. i'm willie geist. with us this morning, the host of "way too early," jonathan lemere, former white house director of communications, jennifer palmieri, associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson, and editor for politico, sam stein, and the former district attorney of columbia, glen kirschner. donald trump has pleaded not guilty in the interference case. he entered a plea for the 13 felony charges including for racketeering and conspiracy. it was entered in writing to tell the court he would not appear for next week's scheduled arraignment. the former president's legal team also pushing to separate his case from the other co-defendants. the filing argues october 23rd is not enough time to prepare a defense. that date was set for the speedy trial of co-defendant kennett chesebro. d.a. fani willis asked the judge to set that date for the remainder of the co-defendants as well. when the trial date is set, there will be cameras in the courtroom. that decision confirmed by the judge yesterday. hearings and proceedings related to the case will be televised and livestreamed on the court's youtube channel. i'll start with you this morning. let's talk about first of all, donald trump waiving the arraignment, pleading not guilty. i guess no surprise there, but what about severing his case from the others? what do you read into that? >> you know, it's not a surprise, willie. in virtually every co-defendant case, we get motions to sever which are essentially defendants saying, look, judge, i want you to break me out from the pack. i want a separate trial. they want to separate themselves from the people that they believe might be more culpable. they don't want evidence spilling over on them in a joint trial, and with respect to donald trump's decision to forego a personal appearance at his arraignment, i have a feeling, you know, all along, you know, donald trump has been waging this battle really in a court of public opinion, not in a court of law. so he may have made the decision that, you know, his grifting opportunities will not be particularly high if he makes another personal appearance in georgia for his arraignment. so he and his lawyers have decided to waive, you know, the personal appearance at the arraignment and enter a plea of not guilty, and he'll wait to see what the court does not only with respect to the next in-person status hearing, but with respect to his motion to sever. it will be interesting. i will say, willie, most motions to sever are denied, and the court will cite things like judicial economy and efficiency. imagine if you had to have 19 separate trials. witnesses would have to testify 19 times. it could go on for years, and there is this sort of preference for a joint trial when defendants are properly joined together in a single indictment, but we'll have to see what judge mcafee does in florida. >> with that in mind, do you believe kenneth chesebro gets his own trial very soon maybe? he's looking for an october 23rd trial. do you think he goes on october 23rd and as you look at, you know, the idea of this getting split up 19 different ways which as you say is unlikely to happen, when might donald trump finally have his trial? >> yeah, great question. the two different issues with respect to somebody demanding a speedy trial and under georgia law, that means chesebro has to be tried by the end of october. that is sort of separate and apart from a motion to sever. i do think chesebro will get his speedy trial. sidney powell who has also made a speedy trial demand may get batched together with chesebro. it's an open question as to how much time judge mcafee will give all the other defendants, but here's the thing. i think chesebro and powell have set a bit of an atmospheric precedent, and their arguments are now antagonistic to all the other defendants who will argue, jeez, i can't possibly be ready to go to trial in october. the judge, i think can rightly observe, well, other defendants are ready, willing, and able to go in october. so why can't you? >> so one of those 19 co-defendants, one of donald trump's 18 co-defendants in this georgia case may have, well, confessed a little bit to the crimes he's accused of while giving an interview to fox news. former fox lawyer john eastman appeared to admit to attempting to stop the certification of the 2020 election. this was during an exchange with fox host laura ingraham. >> on january 6th, what did you want to happen, and how was that historically grounded in the history of our country? how would that have taken place just so the viewers can understand what would have unfolded and how that would have ultimately been constitutional. >> so there, you know, several things. some people had urged that vice president pence simply had power to reject electors whose certification was still pending. >> i don't believe that, but go ahead. i don't believe that. that's one thing i don't agree with. >> and i explicitly told vice president pence in the oval office on january 4th that even though it was an open issue under the circumstances we had, i thought it was the weaker argument and it would be foolish to exercise such power even if he had it. what i recommended, and i've said this repeatedly, is that he exceed to request for more than 100 state legislators in the swing states to give them a week to try to sort out the impact of what everybody acknowledged was illegality. >> not everyone acknowledged it, but that was the argument that was being made obviously. and they were obviously irregularities that everyone had seen. whether it rose to the level of changing the outcome of the election, again, without a legal proceeding in the states that mattered, the argument ultimately was a difficult one to make. i mean, hence here we are. >> so gene robinson, there you have one of the central players in all of this, a guy that jonathan lemere wrote a lot about in his book, "the big lie," who drafted the memo with this theory that, yes, mike pence could flip the election to donald trump. effectively saying yes, that's exactly what i tried to do around the election, and by the way, to say that everyone knew that there was something fishy about this election. no, no, no, no. there were 65 court cases. only two of them went his way, and also the people saying obviously there was something going on. they're throwing around these words. it's just not true, and he may have implicated himself in that interview. >> you're absolutely right. it's not true. it's certainly not true that everyone acknowledged their problems with the election, in fact, as you just mentioned that proposition was tested in court 65 times, and it failed, well, you know, two minor examples of where maybe irregularities were found, but, in fact, nothing that would have changed the outcome of the election in any state, period. it just -- it just simply did not happen. so that's a lie, and he just acknowledged really that he tried to do something that was unconstitutional or extraconstitutional. there's no sort of, well, give it a week sort of provision in the constitution or in our law that would allow that sort of thing, and so yeah. it sounds to me like an admission of the facts with which he's being charged criminally, and it's a problem. i don't know why these lawyers go on fox news and talk. they're criminally charged and defendants who go out and talk about their cases generally don't do themselves any good and often do themselves harm, and i think that's what he's been doing. >> a little light confession there from john eastman who of course, also during the process in 2020 in emails which suggest we might be breaking the law here, so more of the same from him, and to gene's point, it's right that lawyers tell their clients on tv. someone needs to tell the lawyers to do the same, but jenn palmieri, there's something else that's interesting to me. i noted it on "way too early," but it's worth further explanation. that's laura ingraham who was very careful in how she talked about that with the backdrop of the dominion lawsuit settlement looming. fox news lost a lot of money there. there's another lawsuit still pending. it's an interesting political moment though where fox at least in certain moments is not willing to fully support trump and his team in their claims of election interference. could that hurt trump's political standing? >> that was my big takeaway was wow. she is going out of the way to interject, to correct the record to say, we don't know what was possible and what was impossible. that's the casualty of the trump years, with casualness with which the lawyer in this case goes on air and says things, you know, basically admits to a conspiracy here to say, we were trying to find some way to get this done, but, you know, laura ingraham has been held -- she knows what it's like to be held accountable under the law, right? john eastman doesn't know that yet, but it has been -- i have been seeing fox just in the last couple of weeks, it's a little schizophrenic in how whether or not it can really be propping you have trump without undermining its own, you know, whether or not it can survive yet another court challenge. >> meanwhile bill barr, of course, the former attorney general under donald trump again pouring cold water on all these arguments you're hearing, especially the one from trump himself. trump repeatedly has said his upcoming criminal trials amount to, quote, election interference. well, yesterday also on fox news, barr called these claims silly. >> all right. i mean, the basic principle in the criminal justice system is if a prominent person commits a crime and then seek him office, that doesn't give him immunity. if there's enough time to have it resolved before the election, it should be resolved. the idea that, oh, okay. i'm sorry. we'll let you run in the election and then after we'll address it. that's not a principle of the criminal -- just think. some mayor charged, you know, charged with massive embezzlement and he says, it's a year and a half to the election, let's put that on hold while i run for re-election. it's silly. you can argue about whether he should have been charged and so forth, but the idea this is interfering with the election is simply wrong. >> and sam stein, this is an argument we've heard from judges in these cases too, which is particularly i'm thinking of jung chutkan and the d.c. case around the election, that march 4th is the date. we begin your trial on the eve of super tuesday. it's not my job to schedule through your campaign. if you didn't want do this during your campaign year, you probably should not have committed a large number of crime. >> that is the cause here. barr couldn't care less about what people think about him, and it comes across. so what if people get mad on fox? i'm not running for office or anything. it's not just legally, but you can look at it the other way, right? it's a service to the voters actually to get the legal stuff out of the way, right? if you're a voter, if you're going to vote in the primary, in an ideal circumstance, you would know if the person you're casting a vote for is going to be arrested, if he'll be able to even be on the ballot. these are major questions that need to be resolved before people cast ballots, and the idea that trump can just push it off until after the election is pretty transparently an attempt by his team to try to run up the clock, get past the election, win office and just try to get rid of all the legal problems that have been surrounding him over the past couple of months. if i could, i want to go back to the one point about eastman which i think is here, you know, why is he going on fox news? why is he creating more problems for himself? i think this is sort of the underlying issue here that's happened. just pretty obscure lawyers like john eastman, you know, they've found an immense amount of legal problems for their actions, and they've also found a fair bit of celebrity. john eastman is now a celebrity on the right. he goes to conferences and he's a hero in certain corners of the conservative movement, and so there's an impulse that he is trying to resist not very well to go out and be celebrated, go out and do tv hits on fox news, and i think that impulse is problematic ultimately for these types of people because he'll say things like he did on laura ingraham's show. >> you can say the same thing about rudy giuliani and sidney powell during the 2020 election. why were they doing it? relevance. they were on tv and people were talking about them, something they crave. something else. two former leaders of the proud boys were handed some of the longest sentences. joe biggs in that group was sentenced to 17 years in prison following his conviction on several charges including seditious conspiracy. that's one year shy of the 18-year term given to the oathkeepers leader rhodes. another key figure in this attack, zachary riel was given 15 years, far below the 30 years sought by prosecutors. the federal judge timothy kelly described what occurred that day as a national disgrace saying, quote, what happened on january 6th harmed an important american custom. that day broke our tradition of peacefully transferring power which is among the most precious things we had as americans. notice i say said had. we don't have it anymore, end quote. defense attorney for both riel and biggs argued the sentences were harsh claiming they were just listening to orders from donald trump. >> you know, donald trump stood, what? how far is he live from here? a mile and a half, he had 74 million votes. he was the commander in chief, the leader of the free world. he told people the election had been stolen. he said that while he was cloaked in the authority of the united states. there's a bigger threat than a riot at the capitol. that's a stolen election. these people listened. a couple of years would have been enough time. these sentences are obscene. >> this morning, two more proud boys will be sentenced and the leader, enrique tarrio expected to learn his punishment next tuesday. so glenn kirschner let's take that point about the length of these sentences, not even half in some cases of what prosecutors were looking for, but still, a decade and a half is a long time in jail, and their argument is, well, donald trump made me do it. we were just following orders. in fact, over the course of some of these trials, proud boy leaders were weeping literally in court saying, i screw up that day. i knew i did something wrong, but it was the big guy's fault. >> willie, i struggle with the sentences, you know, rarely did i have judges impose only half of the sentence that i was asking for as the prosecutor in the case, but, you know, i do think, you know, we have to accept the fact that they were responding to orders from the president of the united states, the commander in chief, you know, he was telling these folks, your vote was stolen. your election was rigged. your president is being unlawfully taken from you, and if you don't go to the capitol and fight like hell, you won't have a country anymore. now go down there and stop the certification. of course, he used the word steal which is helpful because it provides evidence of donald trump's criminal intent because even he knew it wasn't stolen, but, you know, i reflect on my own experience, you know, i joined the army in the 1980s and served on active duty for 6 1/2 years because i was willing to listen to the commander in chief at the time. i was willing to go somewhere and fight like hell if i was being told, if you don't do that, you won't have a country anymore, you know, i would have gone wherever i was deployed. some of these defendants believed donald trump and frankly you're entitled to believe the president of the united states even though people who can discern fact from fiction knew donald trump was lying. so i have mixed feelings about sentences that are only half of what the prosecutors are asking for, but i think in part, it's a recognition that donald trump is the one who was really responsible for the crimes and the sentences are reflecting that. >> yeah, and gene, this is something we've seen again and again in these cases, these trials as they've played out with people who were at the capitol. the people in this case who led the attack on the capitol which is -- and it's a legal offense, right? they're trying to keep out of jail. they need something, but in some cases, they were crying in court. mr. riel saying, i'm done peddling lies for other people who don't care about me. apologizing to his friends, his families, even apologizing to prosecutors saying, look. i believed lies about the election. i know now that they were lies. it didn't really spare them. they're going to jail for 15 and 17 years respectively, but this is -- this is the case they're making. donald trump and others, members of the media, told us a lie. we bought it, and attacked the capitol in what we thought was a patriotic act. >> yeah, and willie, we have had, what? hundreds of these january 6th cases now come through the courts, and we've seen defendants convicted and sentenced, and i think at this point we can look and say overall the justice system is getting this right. the foot soldiers, the people who simply were true believers who came to town because they believed everything donald trump told them about the stolen election and just sort of followed the crowd, and went into the capitol. they're being punished, but they're being punished with much shorter sentences for more -- for less serious offenses than the proud boys and the oathkeepers. the proud boys and the oathkeepers came organized. they came with gear. they came with tactical plans to upset our constitutional order, and to essentially stage what would have amounted to a coup de ta by stopping the free and fair election. that's a serious offense, especially the defendants who were convicted of seditious conspiracy, and it deserves these longer sentences. i agree with glenn that maybe there's some mitigation because they were being told to do so by the president of the united states. there will be a reckoning in judge tanya chutkan's court for that former president, but in the meantime, these sentences seem about right to me. they are serious sentences and, you know, in federal prison, you're going to do the time, and that's a long time, 15 years, 17 years. this is a long time to think about what you did, and i think they're appropriate. >> glenn, what about that point that gene makes which is the way the justice system is working? and it's been slow and patient, but here it is. it's a lot of people to get through in the case of january 6th, but even now, georgia, you have the 19 co-defendants. you even look at rudy giuliani's defamation case, and he's going to have to pay a bunch of money to two election workers who he defamed and made lies about, and frankly ruined their lives. it does appear, and maybe not fast enough for some people, it does appear that the bill is coming due for so many of these people and the justice system is doing its job. >> yeah, no. i agree with gene, you know, as conflicted as i am about some of these sentences, i do think that the justice system or systems, both federal and state, kind of writ large are getting this right. i think the injustice that i feel that is at play every minute of every day is that the people who were following donald trump's orders are, you know, pretty promptly being arrested, tried, convicted, and imprisoned, and the general who gave the unlawful order is running for president, going to dinner parties, holding fund-raisers, and putting in danger with his statements and his posts, everybody else who's trying to hold him accountable. judges, prosecutors, witnesses, jurors, and their family members in some instances. so until we remedy that by, you know, getting donald trump held accountable for his crimes, it still feels like we are sort of living with an injustice at the moment. i do think, and i believed all along that the system will get there and hold trump and the rest of the hierarchy of the insurrection, the suits of the insurrection, not just the boots, accountable for what they've done. >> not only is donald trump seeing his supporters go to jail for what he stoked, but having him pay his legal bills by raising money around all this. glenn kirschner, thanks so much. so great to have your expertise on all this. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest on mitch mcconnell's condition after a health scare this week, and what republican presidential candidate nikki haley is saying about it now. you're watching "morning joe" on a friday morning. we'll be right back. back. more shopping? 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>> no, i don't. >> he says, no, i don't have any concerns about mcconnell's ability to do his job. meanwhile, republican presidential candidate nikki haley who has called for mental competency tests for lawmakers over the age of 75 was asked about mcconnell's latest health scare. here's what she said to fox news yesterday. >> it's sad. no one should feel good about seeing that. you know, any more than we should feel good about seeing dianne feinstein, or that we should feel good about seeing a lot of what's happening or joe biden's decline. what i will say is right now senate is the most privileged nursing home in the country. mitch mcconnell has done some great things, and he deserves credit, but you have to know when to leave. that is why i'm strongly in support of term limits in this country. i think we need mental competency tests for anyone over the age of 75. i wouldn't care if they did them over the age of 50. they're making decisions on national security. they're making decisions on our economy, on the border. we need to know they're at the top of their game. you can't say that right now looking at congress. >> so jenn palmieri, slightly less gracious for nikki haley than was joe biden, calling the senate a nursing home, but she's making an argument for term limits that are getting a little bit more traction anyway. is it your sense that may go anywhere, and then number two, how much do you think knowing washington as well as you do, there are private conversations among senate republicans about what comes next after mitch mcconnell, about whether perhaps he should at least maybe not give up his seat, but step aside from his leadership role. >> yeah. you know, we have term limits. they're called elections, and voters get to decide -- >> yep. >> -- who they support, and they know how old people are when they vote for them, you know, california voters understood how old dianne feinstein when they re-elected her, and, you know, they chose to re-elect her, and, you know, this idea of a comp centitest, imagine. it's hard to talk about -- think about how fraught that would be. recall trump's doctor from 2016 who gave him, you know, how would you do something like that? it's her attempt to make a -- just a make a larger point, but in terms of what's going on with the senate, i, you know, there's a lot of concern about mcconnell has been a very effective -- i use that word, you know, deliberately, effective leader, and if he goes, what can happen? there are sort of three senators in the wings waiting that could take his place, but having this happen a second time, i think that there is, you know, there is chatter in the senate like that there may be time to make a change. whether or not you can execute on that before the end of the year, but -- is difficult to imagine how that plays out. there's a lot of tough issues the congress is going to have to deal with including a possible shutdown of the government, and, you know, there's concern that whether or not mcconnell can operate as effectively as he normally does. >> and certainly to jenn's point, having it happen a second time changed the seriousness of this. it can't be explained away as a one off dehydration, and mcconnell received that note saying that sam stein, people we have been talking to in washington, not sure they'll buy it. democrats and republicans alike are concerned to whether he can keep that. leadership is a different area. so talk to us a little bit how things could change if you were to step aside. we've reported that mcconnell, once a democratic villain, but now an important partner, someone the president can work with, a bullwork to trumpism, and someone helping with ukraine. >> yeah. >> how can this embolden some on the far right? >> well, let me get jenn's test out of the way. person, woman, man, camera, tv. >> that a bay. -- boy. >> this allows me to address jonathan's point. you bring up a very valid and interesting point here which is that, you know, mcconnell obviously also ten years was a supervillain for democrats, and blockaing the supreme court nomination clearly sort of the pinnacle for obstructionism for democrats, his vow to not let obama have a second term, and it was an emblem aside, but in this trump era, especially for this white house, he's become -- i wouldn't call it an ally, but an occasional ally. on the infrastructure deal. he's given cover to biden on a few other legislative oppositions, but more than that, he's been a bullwork against trumpism and of course, there for ukraine funding, and i think it's important for people to understand there is a very actually tight personal relationship between mcconnell and biden. i mean, biden spoke at the mcconnell center in kentucky shortly after that first year in 2011 to praise the minority leader for being a partner. that was during the bad days, but now they have formed a fairly formidable partnership, and now the white house is concerned on a personal level, and also on a political level of what happens if mcconnell were to step aside or leave the senate entirely, and, you know, yes. there are some others in the senate in the republican party and senate that they can work with, but there is a sense that he, you know, is so important in so many key legislative vehicles that they need, including government funding which is what he was talking about prior to this latest freezing episode. there's real concern inside the administration. coming up, the monthly jobs report is out this morning. stephanie rule is here talking about what it means for the fight against inflation. "morning joe" is coming right back. t inflation. "morning joe" is coming right back at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us. rsv is in for a surprise. meet arexvy. ( ♪♪ ) the first fda-approved rsv vaccine. arexvy is used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. ( ♪♪ ) arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. rsv can be serious. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. rsv? make it arexvy. david: i'm david goldberg, a bilingual elementary school teacher and president of the california teachers association. as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. jessie: they're called community schools. david: where parents and families, students and educators are making decisions as one. damien: it's a real sense of community. leslie: we saw double-digit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. david: it's an innovation that's transforming our public schools. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. russia has begun staging what experts call sham elections on territory it illegal he annexed from ukraine. footage shows citizens holding russian passports and turning in ballots on a box marked with the russian code of arms. reuters reports the kremlin picked governors of each territory, and are seeking full terms. joining us now, a former cia officer, and he's a national security and intelligence analyst. mark, good morning, it's great to see you. you co-wrote a new piece on why biden must send ukraine the atacms right now. let's start with what those are, and why you think it's central to ukraine winning this war. >> sure, and good morning. look. i think that we wrote the piece because many of us strongly believe in the notion that the united states actually can affect the battlefield, and what does that mean? that means the provision of these long range ballistic messle systems that would enable ukraine to hit anywhere in crimea, and that would be behind the russian defense lines, whether it's supply depos or logistics, and we see a lot of criticism from the united states unfortunately, talking about the slow pace of the ukrainian counteroffensive, but the matter of fact is we didn't give them these missiles and many of us find it maddening this has not happened yet from the administration. >> mark, let's talk about f16s which is something that kyiv has wanted from the beginning. zelenskyy has made it a borderline obsession saying, we need these. we need these now. it's been slow going. the training programs have been picked up. give us your assessment as to what difference they would make were they do arrive, and how likely is it they're going to get there in time to make any real difference in this current sort of fighting season or two? >> right, jonathan, we're behind the curve on timelines. in the beginning, we had senior officials talk about, you know, an 18-month training timeline, training evolution, and that wasn't true. it turned out to be four months, but as we've said on this program many times and while stavridis has been open about this, this has a lot to do with the current thing, but i don't know if it will affect it that much. that would, but there's a lot of talk in the administration, well, maybe there's an inventory issue or perhaps there's fears of russian escalation, but on inventory, let's do a proof of concept. give them 100 atacms and see what happens. the ukrainians are hitting targets inside russia every night now with drones, but i think they've blown past this idea of escalation. so this is -- the article is a policy prescription on something that can affect the battlefield. >> mark, you mentioned the grumbling in washington about the ukrainian counteroffensive going slowly, and then not really taking that much territory. what is your assessment of how this battle is going? >> well, two things on this. first, i think it's rather untorn for officials talking about how we haven't given them these things in order to succeed. over the last, what, 72 hours or so, ukrainians seemed to have broken through in the zaporizhzhia region. perhaps they are making some more progress, and again it's just the idea to slowly but surely wear down russian offenses. the final point on this, and again, i have been very open about, you know, the historic nature of what united states and the biden administration has done for ukraine, but there is this notion again that we can do a bit more, and the idea of a frozen conflict to me just doesn't have to be the case. again, we can affect the battlefield. that was the mantra that i kind of lived by at cia. we can affect outcomes. this article's giving the biden administration a prescription to move forward, and quickly the attack missiles could be provided and could be used unlike the f16s, they could be used right away. >> mark, there have been some grumblings particularly from this republican presidential field that we've heard it's kind of time to walk away from ukraine. one candidate said i would cut off support for ukraine altogether, and then made bizarre claims about letting russia do its thing as a counterweight to china or something. are you confident though as you watch this that american support for ukraine is steady, that it's holding and that it will be in? that the united states will be in for the long haul? >> well, willie, it's a great question, and there are times where i am confident because i think there are responsible members in the republican party and the national security scare who do want the aid to continue, but there is also this kind of, you know, maga/populist wing, and you hear it from the former president. you hear it from some of the other candidates that talks about cutting off aid, and you know who listens to this is the ukrainians and the europeans as well. i think it's incumbent in the presidential debates for example, and you saw nikki haley do this, to counter that argument because i have some faith that there are responsible members on the republican side, but, you know, that's not kind of locked in stone, and look. this is not as we've said many times on the show, this is not republican party of ronald reagan in any sense, and so, you know, there's reason to be concerned, but still some time to go. >> the new piece online in the news outlet" the messenger," titled "why biden must send ukraine the atacms it needs now," mark, thank you so much. coming up on "morning joe," senator bernie sanders has a message for the white house. >> it is no secret that i want joe biden to be re-elected president. if that is going to happen, if we are going to defeat creeping authoritarianism and right-wing extremism, there has got to be an ideological change of course. >> the point of my remarks is that you cannot simply as president of the united states, rest on your laurels. >> why some progressives are calling on president biden to sharpen his re-election pitch. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? 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(laughing) woo! ♪♪ senator ted cruz of texas was on newsmax this week expressing his genuine and sincere outrage at an alcohol guideline that does not exist in the united states. last week the director of the national institute on alcohol abuse and alcoholism suggested u.s. recommendations could change to just two beers a week. that is the recommendation in canada. was suggesting maybe that would be a good idea for the united states as well. here's what senator cruz said about that. >> what is it with liberals that want to control every damn aspect of their life? biden came in. one of the first things they wanted to do was ban gas stoves. new york state has done that for new construction. they're trying to regulate ceiling fans. it's hot in texas. we don't want to get rid of our ceiling fans. now these idiots have come out and said we should drink two beers a week. if they want us to drink two beers a week, frankly, they can kiss my ass. >> the acting is so bad. that's where the director steps in and says, cut, okay, that was a great first take. we're trying to simulate human behavior, the way people actually behave. ted cruz never misses a chance for bad acting and bad theater. >> i totally disagree. that was emmy worthy stuff. this is what i do when i go out and drink with my buds? when i drink, they subsequently drink in synchronization. i don't know what kind of bars you go to in new york, willie. >> ted cruz just finds the issue of the moment, the outrage on twitter, the outrage on wherever he's getting that information and just pushes on that button. >> whether there is a button or not, he pushes it. this is not a thing that he's complaining about, yet he's going to complain about it and do his bad audition for the ted cruz show, i guess, which i'm not picking up on my schedule. >> john, is that how you roll when you get to clubs in brooklyn, just crack open a beer with your buds? >> there's a lot about that night you don't remember. i mean, this is the latest insincerity from ted cruz. of course, this is not the first time he's done those stunts on camera. we caught him hiding in the bushes by the border. there he is, just so "blair witch project" style as he tries to stir up the outrage. that time it was about the migrants. this time it's about being able to have more than two lone star beers a week. >> executed badly. >> that is ted cruz. >> but a lot of fun to watch. let's play that again later. sam stein, eugene robinson, i hope you simulate cracking a few beers this weekend. for three years, the government stopped interest from building up on student loans, but that pause ends today. what it means for millions of americans. ericans. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? 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ask your doctor about every-other-month cabenuva. every other month, and i'm good to go. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪♪ sun not fully up yet on this friday of labor day weekend in los angeles. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. out there in l.a. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. here in the east. i'm jonathan lemire alongside former white house director of communications to president obama, jen palmieri, the president of the national action network and host of "politics nation," the reverend al sharpton, as well as symone sanders townsend. let's get right to breaking economic news. u.s. employers added 187,000 jobs in august, more than expected, and a sign of resilience for the labor market. let's bring in stephanie ruhle. give us your assessment of this number. >> this is a slow and steady nice report here. yes, fewer jobs, but we are seeing the unemployment number slightly tick up, but we knew that was going to happen. we've seen rates go up. we know that's what the fed is trying to make happen. but we're still seeing 1 1/2 open jobs for every american out there looking for a job, which is a net positive. we're seeing jobs created still in leisure and hospitality, on construction, which is a key place for the biden administration. remember, we're out there building chips factories. the infrastructure law is putting shovels in the ground. this is a net positive. when people say, hold on, we don't like to see the unemployment number go up, it is not shooting up, we have a cushion, and this is part of the fed's action to get things to slow down, because inflation has been the biggest concern. we are getting a fed meeting later this month. >> we know the fed is keenly watching the jobs report. they seem to take their guidance from them. what's your expectation about whether they'll pause interest rates, raise them, lower them? >> we're about to find out. we're no longer in a situation where inflation is, quote, unquote, out of control. we've certainly seen things slow down. if you think where we were three years ago, two years, even a year and a half, less than a year ago you had every economist saying we're bracing for a recession, inflation is debilitating. that is not the case. would we say, oh my gosh, the fed has perfectly threaded the needle of a complicated situation? no. but things seem to be in a good place, and the administration has to be happy about this. >> the administration has been on an economic push in recent months, bidenomics. what would you counsel be to how to message this number? >> i'm so excited that we opened the segment with courtney love singing "celebrity skin." pause and thank the music gods. that was a big moment for me. 187,000, this is a case where the white house is happy with the slow and steady growth, because hopefully it signals that the fed won't raise rates. they can continue to argue that the plan is working, that jobs are being added and that inflation remains down. looking ahead to the fed meeting, there's a question about rates being raised but also a lot of other economic indicators. what should we expect to see? >> the inflation report is coming and it's hugely important, because it has to be frustrating for the biden administration. despite the economy doing very well, jobs still being created, people don't feel great about the economy. i'm sure the white house has been scratching their heads. when you talk to people,they're saying, man, my life is so expensive, whether it's gas prices or at the grocery store or trying to buy a car. that's hard because people vote with their wallets. if the inflation report isn't as bad as it was months ago, if the fed gets closer to not raising rates or maybe even six months from now, the idea they could cut rates could be a huge win for the administration. it's great for the country. we want people feeling better. >> stephanie ruhle, thank you. >> jonathan? >> yes. >> also despite being excited about the opening song, i'm most excited about that video of vivek ramaswamy with reverend al. it is cracking me up all week long. >> we'll get into previewing the reverend's interview with mr. ramaswamy a little later this hour. first, we've seen the polling that a lot of americans still don't feel great about the economy even though the economic numbers have been pretty solid. some white house officials have been pointing to underlying data that service is starting to improve. even a voter who says, i don't really love the economy, but they acknowledge i've got a little bit more money in my pocket right now, and they think that will translate into votes next year. you're out in the community a lot talking to voters. what are you hearing in terms of how americans feel about this? >> i'm hearing exactly what you're saying, a lot of people saying i don't feel stable, but i do have more money or i do seek more people to employ. civil rights leaders met with the president and vice president on monday with members of martin luther king's family. this is a major part of it. when you talk about the infrastructure bill, people have to understand on the ground what this means. this is not beltway talk. the other part is in the black community, even with record unemployment numbers down and you probably had record unemployment numbers for decades in terms of black unemployment being down, it is still higher than white unemployment. how you close that gap is also the challenge. symone, is it right that numbers are down, but we're still more unemployed than anybody else in the country in the black community? >> you are absolutely right. unemployment for women, hispanics and latinos and black folks stayed about the same, but the unemployment number for black people in america was 5.3%. overall unemployment is 3.8%. there is a gap there and a bit of a chasm. that means people are feeling that in the community. in most inner city african-american communities, middle class working communities that i grew up in, many folks are still working two jobs to have enough money to put food on the table and have a little extra in their pocket. i think that's why programs that have been rolled out from the administration, particularly for small businesses that the vice president announced this week, $125 million for black entrepreneurs, that is going to be key. as much as the administration can get out in the community and talk to folks directly, it'll make a difference. >> presidential reelection bids are often determined on the state of the economy. former president trump is officially pleading not guilty in the fulton county election interference case. trump's team entered his plea yesterday for the 13 felony charges he faces, including, racketeering and conspiracy. the plea was entered in writing as they filed a waiver to tell the court trump would not appear in person for next week's scheduled arraignment. his legal team is also pushing to separate his case from the other codefendants. the filing argues that october 23rd is simply not enough time to prepare a defense. that date was set for the speedy trial of codefendant kenneth chesebro. fani willis asked a judge to set that date for the rest of the codefendants as well. a judge yesterday also confirmed there will be cameras in the courtroom. hearings and proceedings related to the case will be televised and livestreamed on the court's youtube channel. joining us now, nbc news legal analyst andrew weissman. good morning. no surprise at the former president's plea, no surprise he is not going to make another trip to georgia next week. let's get your take on trying to separate himself from some of his codefendants. do you think his team has a point that a trial starting in seven or eight weeks simply isn't feasible? >> let's start with the last point. that is definitely a good argument that seven or eight weeks is insufficient time. we just had that issue litigated in the d.c. federal case against donald trump. i know it can be hard to keep them all straight because you have the former president facing four separate cases. three of them are set for trial right now. we have an early march date, an end of march date and a may date for three of the cases. georgia is the one where there is not yet a date. people who want to go to trial soon have all raised their hand and said we'd like an early trial. donald trump is not in that position. he wants to go to the back of the line and have his trial after the election so that it's never televised and he can continue to spin the facts and the law without actually being in a forum where a judge will actually determine that and a jury will actually determine it with, as you mentioned, cameras in the courtroom. >> good news about the cameras. andrew, what would be your best sense then as to what is a realistic start date for this trial, one that americans will be able to watch along, unlike the federal cases where there aren't cameras? there's been a sense that state cases take a back seat to federal ones, that the d.a. would be deferential. >> we have data points to go with, because this exact issue was argued back and forth between jack smith and donald trump in the federal d.c. case. if you use that as a measure, there the federal judge gave the former president seven months to prepare, which is a significant amount of time. she estimated that is consistent with due process. so you could imagine the judge here in the state case using that as a bit of a benchmark. the biggest issue i think for the judges who sets this date is trying to slot it in. there are two criminal trials in march. there's one in may. you know, figuring out exactly when this case can go to trial and the time period is going to be the biggest challenge for the judge, whether it's going to be before march or after the may trial date that is currently set for the so-called mar-a-lago documents case. >> good morning, andrew. >> good morning. >> i hope we didn't get you up too early. >> i rise late, but work late. >> you do. we're about four or five months into trump indictments. is there something that emerges for you about how trump is handling this or how the system is working? we're a little bit into it now. do you have any larger perspectives as you think about this? i know you think about this all the time. >> i do. i think that the biggest issue that i see looming really has to do with cameras in the courtroom. this is one where for the first time in our history we have a former president being charged. it is correct for people to be concerned about making sure that this is not a show trial, that we are not a banana republic. i think the way to cut through that is to follow the model of the january 6th hearings, to follow the model, to date myself, of the watergate hearings. this is one reason i think the georgia case is so significant. it's not so much that the georgia case is that whoever is the next president cannot pardon their way out of the case, because it's a state case. federal pardons do not apply there. it's really important for the public, whichever way the trial goes, whether conviction, hung jury or acquittal, that everyone gets to see it, because we have such a huge problem now with disinformation and mistrust in the electorate. i think that is the real issue, is making sure that the court of public opinion gets to see what's going on. that's going to be really important for people watching all four of these cases to really keep their eye on georgia and whether the case stays in the georgia state court. >> legal analyst andrew weissman, we're happy to hear from him at any hour of the day. thank you. let's turn to other politics now. florida governor ron desantis is setting the campaign trail aside for the time being as he's helping his state recover from hurricane idalia. but donald trump is using this time to lash out at his republican opponent. in a series of truth social posts, the former president attacked desantis on the way he manages florida, suggesting the governor approved an electricity rate hike after taking campaign donations from power companies. trump also implied desantis is to blame for the state of florida's insurance industry. karl rove's latest column for the "wall street journal" is titled, vivek ramaswamy, political performance artist. he describes him as an unusually glib, shallow, overbearing, smooth-talking biotech entrepreneur who has no government experience but plenty of conspiratorial demagoguery to sell. he says it's easy to dismiss mr. ramaswamy as a present-day professor harold hill, the con man in "the music man." but hill wanted only to sell band uniforms and musical instruments. mr. ramaswamy wants to control america's nuclear codes or perhaps to occupy a comfortable seat in mr. trump's cabinet. he says outrageous things, smears his opponents and appeals to the dark parts of the american psyche. there's already a gop candidate who does all those things and worse. republicans deserve a choice, not an echo. pretty strong stuff from karl rove. of course, it use to be george w. bush's political advisor. you have an interview with vivek ramaswamy coming up this weekend on "politics nation." what are some things you want to learn from him? >> i want to know if he is serious as a presidential candidate or if it's just performative. we need to deal with very serious issues. there's very serious things going on in the country. for him to be performative, for him to be quick witted and to just play this kind of feed his base or what he assumes is his base is not something i want to talk about. i want to know how he's going to deal with economic questions. i want to know how he deals with ukraine, not some surface answer that doesn't really get down to the problem, how he deals with race in this country. he's made some very provocative statements that i don't understand what he means when he talks about affirmative action and dismissing members of congress as the new kkk. i want to get into the substance. i don't run a clown show, so he will not get away with clowning with me. we're going to talk substance and really whether he's a thought-out candidate or whether he's what karl rove said. george bush used to meet with us and sit down and explain. we didn't agree, but we met. say with bill clinton and obviously with barack obama of eight years, even donald trump and i would talk on the phone two or three times. is ramaswamy a grownup where he can have a dialogue and talk sensible, or is he going to think he gets away with just noise and rattles? amateur night is at the apollo uptown, not on "politics nation." >> ramaswamy suggested he would give russia the territory it's currently claimed illegally in ukraine, and he does not believe white supremacy exists in the united states. he says he's never met a white supremacist. what's your take on the vivek experience right now, someone who was in a strange way the center of attention at the first republican debate? he received more incoming than just about everyone else. he's had a little bit of a bump in the polls. where do you think he's trying to go here? >> i think vivek ramaswamy is currently trying to turn the moment he had on the debate stage into momentum in iowa. the strategists on the ground in iowa will tell you he has one of the better funded ground operations in iowa, but people didn't know him. now post that debate, folks are showing up, and he's trying to make it a thing, asking people to sign commit to caucus cards. our nbc news reporters have stories telling us if they want pictures. i talked to vivek ramaswamy. what he has said about russia and ukraine and china, it is something he's said on repeat. i read somewhere that he noted that he just really brushed up on foreign policy within the last couple of months. i think he is a dangerous candidate. while we were watching the debate saying this is ridiculous, ramaswamy is not a serious character, people within the republican apparatus were saying he's telling it like it is, he's a self-made man. does any of this sound familiar? anyone who has interviewed ramaswamy has done a great job of holding his feet to the fire. that's something the media apparatus collectively did not do to donald trump in 2015. >> let's show a clip of a young ramaswamy talking to a very familiar face. >> reverend sharpton, i'm vivek. i want to ask you, last week on the show we had senator keri kerry and senator edwards. i want to ask you, why should i vote with the candidate with the least political experience? >> well, you shouldn't, because i have the most political experience. [ applause ] i got involved in the political movement when i was 12 years old. i've been involved in social policy for the last 30 years. so don't confuse people that have a job with political experience. whoever the head of some local bureaucracy has a job in cambridge. that doesn't mean they have political experience and doesn't mean they have experience to run the united states' government. i think we confuse title holders with political experience, as we have seen with the president occupying the white house. george bush was a governor and clearly has shown he doesn't have political experience. [ applause ] >> that, of course, is an episode of "hardball with chris matthews" back in 2003, rev. that time he asked you a question. you'll turn the tables tomorrow. what do you make of that encounter? >> that's interesting, because his question for me was why should anyone vote for someone who doesn't have political experience, meaning political office. well, he's never held political office. is it different rules for me and black candidates than it is for him and donald trump? maybe i'll play him his own words. i'm looking forward to seeing what his answer will be. again, i want to deal with substance. i'm also glad you played the tape, because it showed how more swell i looked. and i haven't missed a step in my quick reactions. >> you looked great, you sounded great, and that was a terrific answer. symone, what can we expect on your show? >> this weekend, particularly saturday, i will have one of the attorneys for ruby freeman and shaye moss joining us at the top of the show to talk about the defamation suit, rudy giuliani and everything happening in georgia. then we'll have an attorney join us who is part of a group that have spoken out forcefully against what republicans in georgia are attempting to do to d.a. fani willis and how it is being replicated across the country. sunday, i have my "on the ballot" segment where i am talking to a local candidate in arizona running in a very competitive congressional race. every member of the house of representatives is up. >> we will be watching. coming up on "morning joe," the pause on monthly payments and interest for student loans has been in place for the last three years. it ends today. for some 800,000 americans in debt, a biden administration program is providing major relief. we'll have a look at the impact on borrowers straight ahead. th on borrowers straight ahead. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. (wheezing) asthma isn't pretty. it's the moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. because one dose a day helps keep my asthma symptoms under control. and with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy helps improve lung function so i can breathe easier for a full 24 hours. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. trelegy contains a medicine that increases risk of hospitalizations and death from asthma problems when used alone. when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid, like in trelegy, there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase risk of thrush and infections. get emergency care for serious allergic reactions. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ♪ what a wonderful world. ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - because breathing should be beautiful. welcome back. as we turn to some of the morning's other headlines, president biden is proposing a new rule to close the gun show loophole. the plan would require anyone selling a gun for profit to get a federal license and conduct a criminal background check whether they sell the weapon in a store or a gun show. the bureau of alcohol tobacco firearms and explosives currently licenses 80,000 gun dealers. however, sales are increasingly happening outside of that system and without background checks. the new rule will go through the federal rulemaking process and will likely be challenged in court by second amendment activists. earlier this summer the supreme court blocked the biden administration's wish to cancel $400 billion in student loans. conservative groups sued to block that move, but a federal judge dismissed their lawsuit last month. today is now the day that federal student loan interest resumes after years of being put on pause due to the pandemic. for more, let's bring in nbc news correspondent shaquille brewster. what can you tell us? >> well, you mentioned it. for tens of millions of borrowers, today is the day when interest will start accruing and accumulating on their student loans after that three-year pause due to the pandemic. because of an action the administration launched in april of 2022 for hundreds of thousands of people they're seeing a new balance when they log into their account that says zero dollars. >> everything says paid in full. >> the relief and celebration came in a flurry. >> i've been paying on student loans for 38 years. >> zero balance. >> i am thankful for the biden administration finally coming through. >> the biden administration wiping away $39 billion in student debt. >> to see zero, i'm used to seeing zero in my checking account, not my student loans. it's shocking. >> after more than 20 years of payments, sarah walsh's $40,000 balance gone overnight. the education department just did a one-time adjustment to fix errors with some programs that forgive loans after decades of payments. >> these borrowers should have been in an income based repayment plan. if the system worked, these borrowers would have had their loans cancelled a long time ago. >> while this isn't the widespread cancellation the supreme court blocked in june, this relief will impact more than 800,000 borrowers. what does this mean to you? >> i'm not so pressured to pay my bills. i can start budgeting a way to get a car, since i've never owned a car. >> with college debt now nearing $1.8 trillion nationwide, the president is celebrating the change and previewing additional action. >> i promise to fix the problems of the existing student loan program. >> we think it's unlawful and unconstitutional. >> two conservative groups are launching another legal fight, asking federal courts to block future forgiveness. >> this is not just some sort of administrative fix. they're trying to maximize cancellation of loans as much as possible and using this so-called adjustment as a pretext for doing so. >> cancellation that many thought was a dream is now a reality. >> i kept logging in to make sure that it said zero. >> it still says zero? >> it still says zero and the smile hasn't left my face. >> you'll notice the people benefitting from this round of forgiveness are those who have been paying literally for decades on their student loans. for those who are fresher into their repayments who will see that payment restart on october 1st, the administration has launched a new income driven repayment plan called the save plan. part of that plan cuts the minimum payment from 10% of discretionary income to 5% of discretionary income. they say that can end up having make payments zero dollars for many borrowers. >> thank you for that report. >> student loan forgiveness was among big issues progressives wanted to see from the biden administration. now there's some concern from left leaning democrat that is the biden administration isn't focused enough on an ambitious second-term agenda. your new story is titld "liberals raise alarms, calling on biden to sharpen reelection pitch." senator sanders just dropped in on the white house earlier this week. it is a political maxim that candidates tend to drift toward the center as the election approaches. what has the progressives here so alarmed? >> we heard from senator sanders over the weekend in new hampshire and on "meet the press." he was essentially telling the president that the president needs to focus more on a liberal ambitious agenda, a clear agenda for a second term. we've heard the president spending a lot of time over the last couple of weeks talking about what he's already done, bidenomics and all of the things that have worked for his administration over the past couple of years, but less discussion on what he would do if he gets another four years. progressives are saying biden needs to focus on the fact that people are still struggling even in the bidenomics world where we have low unemployment. there are still people struggling with inflation, struggling to put food on the table. as biden pivots to the middle on some issues, a number of progressives feel that may leave an opening for voters to stay home or go to a third party candidate like cornell west. >> this happens a lot in reelection where a candidate moves to the center. there's a pull in this case from the left to be more progressive. say more about some of the issues that senator sanders said that the white house should be more aggressive on. if it's inflation and wage inequality, climate change, things like that, these are things the american people really want action on too. i don't know necessarily this is a case where what the progressives want are at odds with the rest of america. >> yeah. i should also include that senator sanders said that president biden has every right to be proud of his record. his record includes progressive wins on climate change, the inflation reduction act, the economy and jobs and all of the things that have happened over the past couple of years in a divided congress. a number of progressives have given biden credit for that. they say there needs to be more done as we put on an agenda for the next term, things like free universal health care, things like universal pre-k and child care, the things that biden campaigned on and the things originally in the build back better agenda that he wanted to get through congress, but were blocked by some conservative democrats in the senate. a number of liberal progressives are saying don't give up on those things. even in a divided washington, you need to still tell the american people that not only are you going to finish the job, but you're going back to the drawing board on some of these important progressive priorities. >> have a great weekend. up next on "morning joe," the holiday weekend could be the end of remote working for some employees, while others are fighting that mandate. our next guest argues a return to a five-day in-person workweek may be doomed to fail and has an alternative approach. d has an alternative approach struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? 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[ helicopter and wind noises ] for a great low rate, go with the general. i'm orlando and i'm living with hiv. i don't have to worry about daily hiv pills because i switched to every-other-month cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. now when i have people over, hiv pills aren't on my mind. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients, or if you're taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. it feels good to just live in the moment. with every-other-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about cabenuva today. david: i'm david goldberg, a bilingual elementary school teacher and president of the california teachers association. as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. jessie: they're called community schools. david: where parents and families, students and educators are making decisions as one. damien: it's a real sense of community. leslie: we saw double-digit gains in math, in english, and reading scores. david: it's an innovation that's transforming our public schools. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com reagan national airport at 9:43 a.m. this labor day doesn't just mark the unofficial end of summer. after the three-day weekend, about 1 million workers will be required to head back to the office. a number of companies across the country are implementing return to work mandates for employees who are still at home. joining us is joanne litman. her latest op-ed is "labor day return to office mandates yearn for normal." quote, if you were to invent our workplace from scratch today, there is no way it would look anything like five days a week in the office full-time, a cadence that was outdated even before the pandemic began. as someone who has managed teams for decades, i empathize with employers who want people back on the premises. being together is essential to mentoring, collaboration, sharing a common culture and the serendipitous hallway conversations that spark new ideas, but employees are pushing back for good reason. it isn't just the undeniable appeal of working in sweatpants, walking the dog or doing laundry between zoom calls, research has found employees are more productive at home, that eliminating the commute adds hours to their day. it suggests employers don't trust them. it's a fascinating piece. this problem is gripping employers throughout the nation. big cities are trying to adapt to office buildings that are sitting empty. if a five-day a week workweek isn't the answer, what is? >> thanks for having me. the issue we have here is that we have this outdated notion of sort of going back to normal. we have heard this, by the way, every august. don't you feel like this is groundhog day? every august we hear companies say, okay, after labor day, we're all going to be coming back. and it never works. the reason it never works is because it is outdated and outmoded. we learned during the pandemic shutdown that there are other ways of working. as you mentioned, i really do believe you need to be on the premises sometimes certainly for reasons of culture and mentoring, brainstorming. zoom, we know, is a terrible way to spark creativity. but what we have found is that these alternates, some version of hybrid remote has been extremely effective. i do want to point out there is no one-size-fits-all, but we are seeing companies that are using a variety of different methods that have been highly effective. i can mention a few, but the one i want to mention first and foremost is this four days a week in the office. there's been a huge amount of research. we do know this has been done in the u.k. iceland was the first to test this. there's been a global survey. in every case they found that productivity remained the same or increased. employee stress levels went down. mental health improved. all around it was a win-win for the employer and the employee. but there are different methods that are going to work for different organizations and even different departments within different organizations. we've got to get out of this rigid mentality. it's not working. one of the most rigid of all is goldman sachs which has been insisting on five days a week. their most recent quarter their earnings declined something like 58%. so there is evidence that this hybrid way is a better, smarter way going forward. >> to be clear, not every industry has the same requirements. certain types of businesses require different things. but there's no question that it seems like the people that i talk to every day, there's an appeal to at least having a day or two at home. >> i love coming here to have colleagues and you learn a lot from interactions. but not having to spend your entire weekend doing laundry because you're able to be home one or two days a week is pretty appealing too. is there any place in the u.s. that's using the four day a week model successfully? >> there's a number of places using four days a week. there are some companies saying come in three days a week, two days a week. i think we're still feeling our way. there's a couple other really interesting experiments. allstate insurance during covid sold their headquarters all together. they polled employees, those who had the ability to work remotely, on what was their preference. 95% of them wanted to work remotely. at this point, over 80% of their 57,000 employees work remotely. i spoke with tom wilson, the ceo, about this. he said, we're experimenting. we're going to see how it goes. right now not only is it working, but it has allowed the company with their new hires to bring in 30% more diverse candidates. this is another really important point i want to make, which is when we look at these more remote, more flexible workplaces, it is so much better for women, people of color, parents of young children. linkedin looked at its own people and found that when you put out a request for applicants for remote job, you get far more women and people of color applying. it gives you access to a more diverse and larger workforce, which is key. >> such a fascinating conversation and one that's not going away any time today, joann litman, thank you very much. her latest book is titled next, the power of reinvention in life and work. thanks for joining us this morning. still ahead, we'll be joined by a pulitzer winning journalist, a greater perspective on how animals sense the world around them and us. that conversation is next on "morning joe." uuuhhhh... here, i'll take that! woohoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. enter the $10,000 powered by protein max challenge. ♪ ♪ i will be a travel influencer... hey, i thought you were on vacation? it's too expensive. use priceline, they've got deals no one else has. what about work? i got you. looking great you guys! ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪ welcome back, the international race back to the moon has already led to a new discovery. earlier this weekes india's moon rover confirmed the presence of sulfur on the lunar surface. that's the first time that element has ever been detected there. while there is plenty to discover beyond our planet, our next guest is focusing on the biological wonders here at home. from the depths of the ocean to your own family's pet who might be sharing the living room right now. that's because the animals who inhabit our planet experience the world entirely differently than we do. and the secret lies in their senses. pulitzer winning science journalist ed young is the author of "the new york times" best seller, an immense world: how animals sense reveal the hidden realm around us." it's in paper back this week. the book is extraordinary. tell those watching at home, some of them perhaps with their pets, what exactly you mean in terms of how the animals use their senses to really realize the world around them. >> the core idea of the book is that every creature is trapped in its own sensory bubble. it has its own unique set of sights and smells and sounds that it can perceive but that other creatures might not be able to, so even if we share the same physical space, we're really existing in very different realities. i'm in the west coast right now, and the sun has just gone up. the world around me now appears in color, but throughout those entire dark hours, many creatures could see in color when my eyes were only in black and white. now birds are starting to sing, and in their songs, they can hear qualities that my slower ears can't perceive. they can see 100 times more colors in the plants around me that i can see. so we're all existing in these very different sensory world, and this book, an immense world is a travel log through those different realities. >> ed, al sharpton, as you study this and write about this, the senses of animals alternate all based on their environment where they are, whether they're in an urban setting or rural setting, whether they're in london or johannesburg. does it alter or become inflated or minimize based on the environment? >> yeah, sure. so in caves, for example, where the world is usually very dark, animals tend to lose their eyes, and they tend to prioritize other senses like touch or even exotic ones we don't have like the ability to detect electric fields. but you talked about differences between city and rural settings. cities are very noisy, bright places, and they have forced animals to shift their communications and their senses too. this is one of the things i write about in the book is that the problems of light and noise pollution that we don't even think of as pollution are harming the other creatures around us. this is one of the reasons why it's important to think about the sensory worlds of other creatures. it gives us a greater sense of our responsibilities to the rest of nature and ways in which our actions might be inadvertently harming the other species that we share the planet with. >> the book, an immense world: how animal senses reveal the hidden realm around us is out in paper back now, pick it up. ed young, thank you very much for joining us this morning. reverend al sharpton, we'll with looking for your interview tomorrow with vivek ramaswamy. peter alexander picks up the coverage after a quick final break. coverage after a quick final break. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? 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we're going to speak to the acting labor secretary julie su in just a few minutes about what it means for the bigger picture. plus, donald trump pleading not guilty in the sprawling georgia indictment. what's next in fulton county as a judge there rules that any trial will likely be televised and live

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